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+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 29 03:08:39 2002
+
+<Zagor> hiya there boys
+<calpefrosch>   hi
+<Linus> Yo!
+<Bagder>        I think it's about time with a status-report mail to the list Zagor
+<Zagor> hmm, yes. i'be been secretly hoping for the irc digests from adi
+<Bagder>        further, have anyone thought about what document format we want?
+<Bagder>        man pages? doxygen? ascii? html?
+<Zagor> html is good, i'd say
+*       Bagder thinks about API docs etc
+<Bagder>        well, html can be generated from man pages and doxygen for example... :-)
+<Zagor> yes, but what is the source format? how do we WRITE the docs?
+<Bagder>        right
+<Bagder>        doxygen might be cool, I haven't really worked with it though
+<Linus> WRITE DOCS? YUCK!
+<Linus> :-)
+*       Zagor takes away Linus' coffee. See? Motivated enough now?
+<Bagder>        we see more and more people asking about various APIs now
+<Bagder>        it'll just grow
+<Linus> AAAAAAH! I'll write docs....please GIVE ME MY COFFEEEEEEEE!
+<Zagor> on the other hand, this is not the best time to document them since they are still changing frequently
+<Bagder>        things like the file.h isn't
+<Zagor> true
+<Bagder>        anyway, if we'd use doxygen, it generates docs based on function comment headers
+<wavey_>        morning
+<Bagder>        so it should be correct
+<Bagder>        hey wavey_
+<Zagor> hi there wav. dug yourself up from under the cvs mails yet? ;)
+---     wavey_ is now known as wavey
+<Bagder>        yikes, those sure came as a tsunami!
+<wavey> heh - i haven't looked since friday
+*       wavey winces
+<Zagor> ooh, you're up for a treat!
+<Zagor> (in for?)
+<Bagder>        been a productive weekend
+<wavey> wow - busy weekend for everyone! :)
+<Bagder>        indeed
+<Bagder>        no one with a life in sight ;-)
+<wavey> i've been busy too. i've written a playlist impl doc which states some fundamentals and asks some qs
+<wavey> you wanna read it or shall i throw it to the list?
+<Bagder>        I'd say the list
+<wavey> i was thinking we could have a docs/ subdir
+<wavey> for complex explanations
+*       Bagder agrees
+<wavey> or will the website do?
+<wavey> i also wrote about 400 lines of code
+<wavey> i'm currently hosting it my own main.c to test it
+<wavey> is the simulator at all ready to host that sort of thing?
+<Bagder>        very soon
+<wavey> coolio
+<wavey> i won't check in my harness then
+<Bagder>        both sims are now supporting the lcd and buttons the same
+<wavey> lovely
+<wavey> i still haven't checked it out
+<adiamas>       Zagor define "irc digest"
+<adiamas>       ive just been logging :)
+<wavey> and i'm busy today :(
+<Bagder>        wavey: your code is mostly using the file api, right?
+<wavey> its stubbed out any actual file operations
+<wavey> still getting my high level api rite
+<wavey> right
+<Bagder>        anyway, when you commit your code we'll make it run in the simulator
+<wavey> yus
+<Bagder>        it has an "embryo" for an app now
+<Bagder>        so we could make a playlist editor
+<wavey> cool stuff :)
+<wavey> i'll be able to do some more later thisafternoon
+<Zagor> adiamas: someone offered to write up an "irc digest", summarizing discussions and desicions. I thought that was you, but maybe it was someone else?
+<wavey> i'll work out what can be checked-in
+<adiamas>       nope was't me ;)
+<adiamas>       im just logging ;)
+<adiamas>       which reminds me, someone is going to have to get today... i was missing a few hours
+<adiamas>       either that or i just pick up where i came in
+<Bagder>        a few hours more or less don't matter
+*       adiamas nods
+<adiamas>       anyone have an id3 tag editor that they would recommend?
+<adiamas>       i can't find anything i like and im to lazy to write my own
+<Bagder>        for linux?
+<adiamas>       yeah
+<Bagder>        I use the command line ones that come with id3lib
+<Bagder>        or 'easytag' for a GUI one
+<adiamas>       nods
+<Bagder>        both kind of works but not extremtly good
+<PsycoXul>      i use xmms interactively or just tag them when i rip them
+<Bagder>        due to id3lib being rather lame :-/
+<Bagder>        800K package for reading and writing Id3 tags?!!
+<adiamas>       lol
+<PsycoXul>      hehe
+<Bagder>        the most recent versin also fails to compile to my machine
+<Bagder>        they claim I have a "too new" gcc
+<Bagder>        silly persons
+<Linus> Whoo. I just tested the event queue primitives. The Alpha version works!
+<Linus> But they are not safe for interrupts to post in...
+<Bagder>        good progress
+<Bagder>        I suggest adding a lcd_update_rect() function, for updating only a part of the LCD
+<Bagder>        (recorder)
+<Zagor> sure
+<Bagder>        it would probably enable cooler stuff
+<Bagder>        s/would/will
+*       adiamas screams
+<adiamas>       i really really hate the recorder some times
+*       Bagder pats adiamas on his head and talks in a gentle tone to calm him down
+<adiamas>       this rebooting thing is realkly starting to piss me off...
+<Zagor> rebooting?
+<Bagder>        let's hope it is a sw issue
+<adiamas>       yeah... i don't know if its my unit or what...
+<adiamas>       randomly seems like the sw chokes and dies
+<adiamas>       which, since its embedded and all, causes the hardware to reboot
+<adiamas>       i don't get this...
+<Linus> I haven't seen it.
+<Zagor> what are you doing when it reboots?
+<adiamas>       i have a perfectly valid playlist, i go to play it, it loads all 117 file entries, then on "Play" it just lists (Root)
+<Linus> "listening to music" :-)
+<adiamas>       when i move to next, it reboots
+<Zagor> "I was just riding along"
+<Zagor> I've never had that happen
+<adiamas>       really realy really starting to annoy me.
+<Zagor> Bagder: you should rewrite id3.c to use nonbuffered io.
+<Bagder>        true
+<Zagor> unless you plan to implement it :)
+<Bagder>        shouldn't be that hard
+<Bagder>        adiamas: it sure sounds like a sw bug
+<Bagder>        what sw version ?
+<adiamas>       checking
+<adiamas>       1.25b
+<Bagder>        I have that one too
+<adiamas>       im really starting to think its a hw issue...
+<adiamas>       because it's not related to any particular action
+<Zagor> does it only happen when you do that, or other times as well?
+<adiamas>       randomly
+<adiamas>       just happened now when i scrolled up the directory menu
+<Bagder>        does it happen when do things that aren't disk-oriented?
+<Bagder>        +you
+<adiamas>       and again
+<adiamas>       sees to be
+<adiamas>       actually.. mis read that.. when its disk oriented
+<Bagder>        or disk related perhaps
+<adiamas>       im really starting to think that the guy i bought it from sold it for this reason
+<Zagor> sounds like hardware to me
+<adiamas>       this keeps up and i may just buy one off shelf and crack this one open...
+<adiamas>       but the idea of spend 200+ for crap hw really burns my balls.
+<adiamas>       sooooo if we get any more 'donations' and ya'll feel like forwarding them along ;)
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Zagor> do you still have warranty on it?
+<adiamas>       id love to break the warentee on this mf.
+<adiamas>       not really...
+<adiamas>       i bought it second hand off ebay, so dunno if i have a claim on it.
+<Zagor> check with Archos US. if you have it, send it to them. this is definitely a warranty issue.
+<Zagor> if you don't have warranty, crack it open and check a number of solder points
+<Zagor> s/check/resolder/
+*       adiamas has _no_ experiance soldering :)
+<Zagor> it sounds like a bad connection somewhere to me
+<Zagor> ok. umm, maybe this isn't a good learning project then :)
+<adiamas>       yeah.. expensive one :)
+<adiamas>       nice.. and archos only gives a 90 day warranty
+<Zagor> really?
+<Zagor> I think it's a year in europe
+<adiamas>       "Archos warranrts to the end user customer that Archos products will be free from defects in materials and workmanship for the duration of 90 days, which begins on the date of purchase by the customer.  Customer is responsible for maintaining proof of date of purchase."
+<Zagor> gosh
+<adiamas>       im reading it off their warranty card
+<adiamas>       reboot again
+<Zagor> swedish law dictates a minimum two years "reclaim time"
+<adiamas>       wow....
+<adiamas>       that and nice hot blond chicks... im in the wrong country ;)
+<Zagor> hehe
+<adiamas>       ill tell you this.. your country has one hell of a PR dept.
+<Zagor> good or bad?
+<adiamas>       i have yet to meet an ugly chick from your country
+<Zagor> :)
+<adiamas>       seems you only send of the hot chicks as 'opairs' or those live in baby sitters
+<Zagor> yep, we have a selection board
+<Zagor> strict regulations
+<adiamas>       hehehe 
+<adiamas>       my mailing addresss is: 60 Collyer Ave.. send one on over
+<adiamas>       i promise ill share with my gf.. no worries ;)
+<Zagor> haha, and she'd take care of...? ;)
+<adiamas>       anything she wants ;)
+<Linus> ...you...?
+*       adiamas nods happilty
+<adiamas>       hell... id be happy to sit back and watch her and the 'wife' go at it 
+*       adiamas growls
+<Zagor> it's our compensation for the long dark winters
+<adiamas>       LOL
+<adiamas>       and high suicide rate
+<Zagor> nature always finds a balance
+<adiamas>       or was that finland?
+<Zagor> that's a myth, actually
+<Linus> we mostly die of cardiac arrest being compensated for the long winters... :-)
+<Zagor> finland is higher, yes
+*       adiamas is from america, home of the 'fast food, gun ordering, beer buying, convenince store drive through'
+*       adiamas laughs merrily at linus
+<adiamas>       Linus, I ment to ask.  Just how common is your name in sweden?
+<Linus> Not very.
+<Zagor> suicide rates per 100k people: USA 11.3, Sweden 14.2, Finland: 23.8
+<Zagor> gotta love the internet :)
+*       Zagor should be writing code review protocols right now. Bleh..
+<adiamas>       hey, look, another reboot
+<adiamas>       heheh
+<adiamas>       code review protocols?
+<Zagor> yeah. medical equipment requires lots of red tape
+<adiamas>       nod
+<adiamas>       anyone else having a hard time loading the rockbox site?
+<Linus> No. why?
+<Zagor> hmm, it's gone blank again
+<Zagor> i don't know why that happens
+<Linus> Oh. Now i see.
+<Linus> I saw that yesterday too.
+<Linus> Itäs probably Zagors lame update cron job that fucks up.
+<Zagor> it is, but why?
+<adiamas>       thats simple
+<adiamas>       42
+<ironi> ello
+<Linus> Hi!
+<adiamas>       hey ironi
+<Zagor> ellooo
+<adiamas>       wat append to te ''s?
+<Zagor> ah, now I get it
+*       Zagor is slow
+<Zagor> tey were lost in te ash
+<Zagor> ahhh, missed one :)
+<adiamas>       hehehehe
+<adiamas>       tougher then it looks ;)
+<adiamas>       you wanna really cook your brains?  take a look at: http://orion.ramapo.edu/~rhak/misc/illusions/pic19692.gif
+<Zagor> yeah, seen it. it's cool
+<ironi> cool
+<adiamas>       yes folks... rob has hit double digits on reboots
+<Zagor> yikes. your archos is next to useless
+<adiamas>       ya think?
+<adiamas>       it seems fine for a while, then *poof*
+<Linus> Curious. Does it happen when you have the charger connected as well?
+<adiamas>       haven't tried.
+<Linus> Do it.
+<adiamas>       trying
+<Zagor> good test. there's a known problem with the spirals holding the batteries
+<adiamas>       how do you mean?
+<Zagor> s/spirals/springs/
+<adiamas>       btw.. what time is it by you?
+<adiamas>       your what, gmt+2?
+<Zagor> +1
+<adiamas>       so its like 11 there?
+<Zagor> yup
+*       adiamas nods
+<adiamas>       stupid sunlight
+<ironi> sunlight?
+<ironi> i wish we had some
+*       Zagor saw some last week
+<ironi> yep
+<ironi> well i hoped for sun tomorrow night
+<ironi> but no luck, it seems
+<Linus> Hi alan
+<alkorr>        hi !
+<Bagder>        we should add "tetris" in the status list ;-)
+<adiamas>       nods
+<Zagor> :)
+<Bagder>        we should add scores
+<Bagder>        ;-)
+<adiamas>       how about adding the ability for the game to end ;)
+<Bagder>        that's not a bad idea! hehe
+<alkorr>        adia: what do you mean ?
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|lunch
+<alkorr>        the game has no "game over" ?
+<adiamas>       alkorr when the blocks reach the top and you are out of room, the game keeps sending blocks :)
+<alkorr>        arf quite annoying :)
+<Bagder>        let's blame Björn! ;-)
+<alkorr>        time for lunch, cu
+---     Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
+*       Bagder silently points out that we *are* gmt+2 while having daylight savings time
+<wavey> because britain is gmt+1 right now :)
+<Bagder>        yeps
+<Bagder>        funnily enough ;-)
+<wavey> stupidly enough
+<wavey> timezones are an abortion
+<Bagder>        indeedo
+<adiamas>       nah.. timezones only happen because of buisness
+<adiamas>       and the railroads if i remember correctly
+<wavey> what's wrong with a single hour across the globe
+<wavey> ?
+<wavey> who cares that 0500 is midday?
+<wavey> or that you wake at 1900?
+<Bagder>        I bet the chinese are on our side
+<Bagder>        they have one time zone
+<Bagder>        for a country as wide as five or so
+<wavey> yus
+<wavey> probably the only thing they agree with us on ;)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        very probably
+<adiamas>       well, i think its part psychology...
+<adiamas>       you try and convince a new yorker that 0800 is really noon
+<adiamas>       or 1 depending
+<Bagder>        hey ho
+<wavey> ad: you'd soon get used to it
+<wavey> even a new yorker ;)
+<wavey> when britain conquers the globe again, we'll insist it :)
+<wavey> actually
+<wavey> the only way britain could conquer the globe again
+<wavey> is if everyone else goes to mars on holiday
+---     Bagder is now known as Bagderfood
+<PsycoXul>      #define file_width 5
+<PsycoXul>      #define file_height 7
+<PsycoXul>      static unsigned char file_bits[] = {
+<PsycoXul>         0x11, 0x0e, 0x00, 0x0e, 0x00, 0x0e, 0x11 };
+<PsycoXul>       /* Created with The GIMP */
+<PsycoXul>      was at the top of that heh
+<PsycoXul>      thats 1 char
+<PsycoXul>      [duh]
+<PsycoXul>      the gimp makes it easy
+<adiamas>       hmmm? whats that?
+<PsycoXul>      what?
+<adiamas>       your bit about file_bits
+<adiamas>       whats it in reference to?
+<PsycoXul>      i just drew a thing in the gimp
+<PsycoXul>      and saved it like that
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<adiamas>       heheh okay...
+*       adiamas still doesn't get it, but thats okay.. hes off to nap
+---     Linus|lunch is now known as Linus
+<PsycoXul>      made a new 5x7 image, image->mode->indexed, set it to black/white (1-bit) palette
+<PsycoXul>      then drew it with the pencil tool with a 1x1 brush
+<PsycoXul>      and saved as an xbm
+<PsycoXul>      and thats what it outputs
+<PsycoXul>      i'm gonna paste it directly into some cgram code and see how they look heh
+---     Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor
+<PsycoXul>      so yeah it looks just like it does in the gimp on the player LCD
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Zagor> nice
+<PsycoXul>      its 8 custom chars though i think 
+<PsycoXul>      i think i said something about 11 before but if i did i think i was wrong heh
+<PsycoXul>      but i tested it again and it's not detected by usb-storage with custom firmware running
+<Zagor> huh?
+<Zagor> that sounds strange. we have no control over the usb interface
+<PsycoXul>      must have *some*, at least one some models if nothing else... i have to plug in the usb cable as soon as the rom version shows its boot screen and before it loads the HD firmware
+<Linus> "With custom firmware running"?
+<Linus> Recorder?
+<PsycoXul>      no, player, studio 20
+<Linus> So you can't plug it in when the device is off?
+<PsycoXul>      i dunno i probably can
+<Zagor> what does the linux log say?
+<PsycoXul>      but once non-archos firmware has been loaded from the HD, usb-storage doesn't recognize it if i plug it in
+<Zagor> you should see a log entry from usb.c or hub.c anyway
+<PsycoXul>      yeah it loads up and thats it
+<PsycoXul>      it just says it loads
+<Linus> I guess the firmware must disable the ATA buffers when it senses that the USB is connected.
+<PsycoXul>      so i let it boot up with archos firmware till it shows the first directory on the screen, then i plug it in, says "USB ..Active..." with the little logo, then i modprobe usb-storage, the unit clicks and in dmesg i see a bunch of output about USB and scsi and the drive info etc
+---     Zagor is now known as Zagor|away
+<PsycoXul>      and then i can mount it and use it blah blah blah...
+<PsycoXul>      so now i'll do the same thing with other firmware running and say what it says :p
+<PsycoXul>      Initializing USB Mass Storage driver...
+<PsycoXul>      usb.c: registered new driver usb-storage
+<PsycoXul>      USB Mass Storage support registered.
+<PsycoXul>      thats it
+<PsycoXul>      the archos doesn't click or do anything either
+<PsycoXul>      and when i unplug the usb cable the archos still doesn't react
+<PsycoXul>      those 3 lines are every new message in dmesg after the last time i unloaded usb-storage, and includes the nothing it printed when i plugged the device in :p
+---     Bagderfood is now known as Bagder
+<Linus> It looks as if the firmware has to enable the ISD200 chip somehow.
+<PsycoXul>      apparently
+<Linus> Is this a problem for you as it is now?
+<PsycoXul>      no
+<PsycoXul>      just interesting :p
+<Linus> OK. I'll put it to prio -7. :-)
+<Bagder>        it'll be annoying not to support that though 
+<Linus> Of course we will support it.
+<Bagder>        when our sw is running
+<Linus> I'll just have to dust off my multimeter.
+<edx>   hi
+<calpefrosch>   hi man...
+<edx>   heh - still at school ;)
+<calpefrosch>   oh, from a computer at school ? 
+<edx>   yea
+*       edx gets his funky rockbox tshirt today
+<edx>   did you do anything to the simulator code?
+*       Bagder hasn't
+<edx>   i meant calpefrosch :) he wanted to change stuff (maybe)
+*       Bagder understands now
+*       Bagder doesn't work from home today, blaaa had to shave ;-)
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs07v-8-105.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> Hi alan
+<alkorr>        Hi Linus
+*       edx doesnt work from home as well
+*       edx is at school and has lesson :)
+<edx>   hi
+<alkorr>        hi edx
+<calpefrosch>   sorry....
+<edx>   re :=)
+<calpefrosch>   I did nothing. 
+<edx>   ok
+<alkorr>        edx: :)
+<edx>   =)
+<alkorr>        what's up , guys
+<Linus> Not much. Working...
+<Linus> Welcome
+<elinenbe>      Hi there.
+<calpefrosch>   Hi
+<edx>   ok - gotta go :)
+<edx>   cya later
+<Linus> Bye
+<calpefrosch>   cu
+<alkorr>        welcome elinenbe
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|work
+<alkorr>        well cu
+<calpefrosch>   Badger: with the simulator, is there a cut between the firmware and the PC-code
+<calpefrosch>   ?
+<calpefrosch>   that I know where to do what ..
+<Bagder>        well, the simulators offer a few APIs using the very same functionality as the firmware code will offer
+<Bagder>        so that code could be written to get displayed in the simulators and then moved to real firmware
+<Bagder>        without much trouble
+<calpefrosch>   ok.
+<Bagder>        currently we offer the lcd API and button API (recorder style) in both simulators
+<Bagder>        check out the uisimulator/app.c code and you'll see how you can program
+<Bagder>        code that should work in simulatorss and target
+<calpefrosch>   in the button API, there must be some repeat functions
+<calpefrosch>   and some function to avoid a dubble press
+<calpefrosch>   double
+<Bagder>        how do we make a function that avoids double press?
+<calpefrosch>   we have to do it twice, I think
+<Bagder>        we do know when a button is pressed and when it is released
+<calpefrosch>   I don't know the english word for "entprellen"
+<Bagder>        me neither ;-)
+<calpefrosch>   if a button is pressed, we have to wait until it is released. 
+<calpefrosch>   and then recognize the next
+<Bagder>        we don't have to
+<Bagder>        we get separate events
+<calpefrosch>   not?
+<Bagder>        we can just wait until a button is released
+<Bagder>        button = button_get()
+<Bagder>        if(button & (BUTTON_PLAY | BUTTON_RELEASED)) yada yada
+<calpefrosch>   but yout want the action when pressed, not when relased...
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        then you fix that
+<Bagder>        thing is
+<calpefrosch>   Did you test it on the target hardware?
+<Bagder>        you may want to support having the key pressed a long time too
+<calpefrosch>   right
+<Bagder>        so currently, if you wanna do funny checks you need to do it yourself
+<Bagder>        the api returns the button-press event
+<calpefrosch>   "entprellen" = "debounce"
+<calpefrosch>   it is a hardware-thing if a key is debounced. 
+<Bagder>        the api actually checks for key-repeat if I'm not mistaking
+<calpefrosch>   if not, we have to do it in software...
+<Bagder>        what is debounced?
+<Bagder>        released?
+<calpefrosch>   ok, think about a key pressed. in digital like this: ___|----|____ 
+<calpefrosch>   but it could be: ____|-|_|-|_____
+<calpefrosch>   because there is no full contact
+<Bagder>        you're worrying too much ;-)
+<Bagder>        if that'll be a problem, we'll fix it
+<calpefrosch>   it is only one press, but two digital signals with µs between them
+<calpefrosch>   that is because I did some key-programming for a tanning bed. I had this problem there...
+<Bagder>        yeah, a common problem for this kind of thing
+<calpefrosch>   if I would have the hardware to test some things, I would feel better
+<Bagder>        you don't have the hardware?
+<calpefrosch>   sure, but I don't want to destroy it or lose the guarantee
+<Bagder>        ah, you want to mess around with thw hw, I thought you meant sw
+<Linus|work>    Yes, the keys must probably be debounced somehow.
+<calpefrosch>   right, but can I load the firmware on the recorder? is it safe ?
+<Bagder>        uuuuh
+<Bagder>        safe? ;-)
+<Bagder>        naaah
+<calpefrosch>   I will try the simulator...;-)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        no debounce problem there ;-)
+<calpefrosch>   cool
+*       Bagder curses .pac files
+<calpefrosch>   do we have a message loop in the firmware?
+<Bagder>        not yet
+---     Zagor|away is now known as Zagor
+<Bagder>        Linus works on the message queue I believe
+<Zagor> we need no debounce, since the keys are polled an not interrupt controlled
+<calpefrosch>   it is important for me to know how the key-thing will work in future
+<Zagor> so if we poll them @10Hz debounce is not really a problem
+<calpefrosch>   ok, I agree
+<Zagor> yes, there are some details left to figure out
+<Zagor> Bagder's statement above holds true
+<Zagor> only there is a problem with key-release
+<Zagor> example:
+<Zagor> 1. I press and hold ON, get_button() returns KEY_ON|KEY_HELD
+-->     ghssg (~fdsasf@pD9560C13.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     ghssg is now known as edx
+<Zagor> 2. I keep pressing ON and also press down PLAY. get_button() returns KEY_ON|KEY_PLAY|KEY_HELD
+<--     edx has quit (Client Quit)
+<calpefrosch>   ok, but where will the get_button be called? 
+<Zagor> 3. I keep pressing ON but release PLAY. what does get_button() return?
+<Bagder>        I agree
+<Zagor> calpefrosch: from the UI code. it will read from a message queue
+<Bagder>        it would need a hold for each key
+<Zagor> the timer interrupt polls the keys and posts events to the message queue
+<calpefrosch>   ok, I will do it in the win32 gui. the code is not working like that 
+<calpefrosch>   now
+<Zagor> Bagder: so, we actually have UP and DOWN events for individual keys, rather than a bitmap for all keys?
+<Bagder>        calpefrosch: why does it have to work like that?
+<Zagor> calpefrosch: the events and queues is implementation specific. only the get_button() api needs to work the same.
+<Bagder>        Zagor: that's possible too
+<calpefrosch>   on windows it is difficult to choose one position, because it repeats the key very fast.
+<Zagor> calpefrosch: yes, that has to be filtered
+<calpefrosch>   in the simulator, because edx has polled the key
+<Zagor> Bagder: well, we have to decide on a system
+<calpefrosch>   I'll try this now, ok? I can send you the diff. on which adress?
+<Bagder>        Zagor: yeps
+<Zagor> how does win32 handle multiple keys?
+<calpefrosch>   hmmmm, I will look. wait
+<Zagor> calpefrosch: I don't have a win32 compiler, so I can't test it I'm afraid
+<Bagder>        I think diffs could very well be posted to the list imho
+<Zagor> i agree
+<calpefrosch>   ok
+<elinenbe>      Are you sure the keys should be polled?  What about a lockup?
+<Zagor> lockup?
+<elinenbe>      you can always hold down the off button on the current recorder and it will always shut it off, even if there is a crash
+<elinenbe>      such as a hard drive crash, etc.
+<Zagor> we have no alternative to polling. there are no interrupt lines conneted to the keys
+<elinenbe>      It seems the off but at least must trigger an interrupt...
+<elinenbe>      how do they currently do it?
+<Zagor> i don't know
+<Zagor> but you have to crash very hard to lockup the timer interrupt...
+<Bagder>        well, we don't have to stop polling just because the drive crashes... :-)
+<Zagor> so I don't see a problem
+<elinenbe>      Is that the way it is currently done?
+<Zagor> we don't have their source code, so it's difficult to say
+<Bagder>        since there is no irq from the keys it is hard to figure out how else it is done
+<elinenbe>      I see.
+<elinenbe>      It just seems polling anything is a waste of cycles...
+<Zagor> polling has its' place
+<Linus|work>    Actually, polling is a good medicine for bouncing buttons.
+<Zagor> polling in general is good when you want control of the rate of events
+<elinenbe>      well, you know more then I do, so I guess.
+<Linus|work>    We try hard to sound like we know something. :-)
+<elinenbe>      :)
+<Bagder>        sshhhh
+<Bagder>        ;-)
+<calpefrosch>   ok, in windows I get an event for keydown and keyup. I could send the keycode to the button.c and save it there
+<calpefrosch>   and wait until the polling main programm do a get_button.
+<calpefrosch>   or what ?
+<Zagor> so both X and win32 use key down/up events. I guess we should do the same
+<Zagor> calpefrosch: sounds good
+<calpefrosch>   how do you do in x ?
+<calpefrosch>   it
+<Zagor> the key handles remembers the last button
+<Zagor> and you get it with button_get()
+<calpefrosch>   that's it. I could make my own buffer...
+<Zagor> buffeR?
+<calpefrosch>   but that would be too complex, I think
+<Zagor> a queue is best
+<Zagor> we should have that on x11 too
+<calpefrosch>   that's what I meant
+<Zagor> ok
+-->     edx (Krutzs@p5081384C.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<calpefrosch>   hi edx.
+<calpefrosch>   I changeg some code for key-handling in your win32 simulator. 
+<calpefrosch>   Because I have much work now, I only give you the changed code. Please commit it after reformating it. :-)
+<calpefrosch>   ok?
+<calpefrosch>   or I send it to the mailing-list
+<calpefrosch>   I have to go in 2 Minutes...
+<Zagor> don't worry about committing nonworking code
+<Zagor> in this early stage, that is ok
+<Zagor> it's a better way to collaborate than mailing code back and forth
+<calpefrosch>   I can't commit. I send it to rockbox@cool.haxx.se. But it's working !!!
+<Zagor> ok
+<calpefrosch>   mny tnx, bye
+---     calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|away
+<--     edx has quit ()
+<--     calpefrosch|away (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has left #rockbox
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     edx (edx@pD4B9E9D6.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<edx>   good afternoon
+<Bagder>        hey again
+---     edx is now known as edx|
+---     edx| is now known as edx
+<edx>   hi
+<--     Linus|work (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<Bagder>        I'm about to leave too
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+---     edx is now known as edx|away
+---     edx|away is now known as edx
+<edx>   is anybody here?
+<--     jb1081 has quit ("[x]chat")
+-->     calpefrosch|away (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has joined #rockbox
+<edx>   hi
+---     calpefrosch|away is now known as calpefrosch
+<calpefrosch>   hi
+<edx>   check this out:
+<edx>   http://codeforce.d2g.com/rockbox/tshirt2.jpg
+<edx>   :)
+<edx>   *checking out the code you mailed*
+<edx>   that is the backlight thing?
+<edx>   boolean IsButton(int key)
+<edx>   {
+<edx>           return (key == last_key) ;
+<edx>   }
+<edx>   hmmm...
+<edx>   if (key & last_key)
+<edx>   might be mroe than one key pressed
+<PsycoXul>      and there's a tab
+<PsycoXul>      :p
+<edx>   yea
+<edx>   not my code :P
+<edx>   i replaced tabs with spaces
+<calpefrosch>   right, but I had no time to make it more comfortable
+<edx>   heh
+<edx>   .. what is the new_key function for?
+<calpefrosch>   I'M just hacking it into the machine. 
+<edx>   couldnt that be done within button_get?
+<calpefrosch>   and I'm at work now, so we have to discuss this later. 30 Minutes ?
+<edx>   ok.
+<calpefrosch>   tnx
+<calpefrosch>   cool shirt.
+<edx>   thanks :D
+*       PsycoXul wonders how he ended up on a t-shirt :p
+<edx>   hehe :P
+<edx>   i just had to put some names on there
+<edx>   i hope you dont mind :)
+<PsycoXul>      but it is cool shirt... though i can't say the same for the hair :p
+<edx>   haha
+---     calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|brb
+<adiamas>       edx.. i love the shirt :)
+---     calpefrosch|brb is now known as calpefrosch
+<calpefrosch>   ok, back again
+<calpefrosch>   edx?
+<calpefrosch>   the main message loop of the windows programm sends every character (WM_KEYDOWN) to the new_char(int Key) function
+<calpefrosch>   the new_char of the button.c stores this character. in future maybe in a loop. 
+<calpefrosch>   s/loop/queue
+<calpefrosch>   when somewhere the get_button is called, the stored key is given to the caller
+<edx>   bakc
+<edx>   hmmmm
+<calpefrosch>   bakc ???
+<edx>   back
+<edx>   :)
+<calpefrosch>   oh
+<edx>   the problem is that you cannot simulate that on a jukebox device.
+<calpefrosch>   ok, do you understand the new_key thing?
+<edx>   i understand it but you cannot use that outside the simulator.
+<calpefrosch>   sure, the jukebox should so it the same way, i think
+<calpefrosch>   s/so/do
+<edx>   it wont.
+<edx>   it will be polling the keys.
+<calpefrosch>   in future the "rockbox" gets a message-loop
+<edx>   also for keypresses?
+<calpefrosch>   we dicussed this earlier this day
+<edx>   that is new to me :)
+<calpefrosch>   you has been to school ;-)
+<edx>   but you must be able to press more than one button at the same time.
+<edx>       return (key & last_key) ;
+<calpefrosch>   right, I had no time to do it. Can you ?
+<edx>   not key == last_key
+<edx>   yea i'll try.
+<calpefrosch>   maybe you shouldn't use this isbutton function
+<calpefrosch>   i don't know
+<edx>   they didnt declare the functions yet.
+<edx>   hm
+<calpefrosch>   is it commited ?
+<edx>   ytf is nobody here (Zagor, Bagder)
+<edx>   not yet.
+<edx>   anyways. the simulator is not responsible for calling the new_key function.
+<calpefrosch>   this method has a second effekt. the backlight is only a "nicety"
+<edx>   that is still done by the firmware
+<calpefrosch>   hmmm, the firmware should generate the key_down ( like windows does )message. Who polls the message_queue ?? 
+<edx>   that is done by the thread i guess (thread.c)
+<edx>   that is bagders work i think...
+<calpefrosch>   and the thread should fill the button.c's button_queue, I think. We have to discuss this with Zagor and Badger
+<calpefrosch>   they have the experience
+<edx>   uhm..
+<edx>   we should wait till they definded the functions.
+<calpefrosch>   but like this it's working even with the key-repeat of windows
+<edx>   the button queue.. hmm i do not think that this is a really good idea :?
+<edx>   well but you cant catch multiple key presses with this message queue
+<edx>   only if you poll all keys.
+<calpefrosch>   we don't need it. but we should save the button til the programm wants it. async
+<edx>   i fully understand. it is not a bad idea. but we still need to support multiple keyrpesses
+<edx>   also, what if one process "grabs" a key and the second one doesnt get it anymore, tho it is still pressed
+<calpefrosch>   yes, I know what you mean. this is a problem.
+<edx>   ill wait for Zag to show up :) i'll ask him about that then.
+<calpefrosch>   I think he do it in the x-version ( x-files, hehe )
+<edx>   ...
+<edx>   *having a look*
+<edx>   not yet.
+<calpefrosch>   hmmm, it is an important, I think
+<calpefrosch>   thing
+<edx>   its a basic.
+<calpefrosch>   the hardware interface didn't allow multiple keystrokes at any compination
+<edx>   well.. yes
+<calpefrosch>   s/p/b :-)
+<calpefrosch>   but I like the color of the backlight ;-)
+<edx>   i think for the player.. to regulate noise or somethign.. there was a multiple combination
+<calpefrosch>   hmm, I never saw the player. only the recorder
+<edx>   i had a player before.. the lcd sucks..
+<calpefrosch>   where did you buy the recorder ?
+<edx>   i bought a player at Promarkt (lol) then I damaged it and sent it back - the sent me a recorder :)
+<edx>   *the = they
+<calpefrosch>   hey you lucky ... go and play Lotto ;-)
+<edx>   hehe.. Lotto never works ;)
+<edx>   tried a lot of times hehe
+---     You are now known as adi|home
+<edx>   hi
+<calpefrosch>   hehe
+<calpefrosch>   hi
+<calpefrosch>   I'll go home and eat a pice of cow. 
+<calpefrosch>   bye
+<edx>   hehe..
+<edx>   cu
+<calpefrosch>   maybe we talk later
+<edx>   k
+*       edx cries out desperating
+<edx>   where is Björn?
+---     calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|away
+<--     calpefrosch|away has quit ()
+<ironi> hi
+<adi|work>      hey ironi
+<PsycoXul>      so i wonder if you hook up IR to the serial port or whatever what kinda crazy things you can do with furbys and pda's and ir-capable printers etc :p
+<edx>   morning.
+<calpefrosch>   morning
+<calpefrosch>   how are you ?
+<edx>   ah hi ;)
+<edx>   tired :)
+---     edx is now known as edx|breakfast
+---     calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|brb
+---     calpefrosch|brb is now known as calpefrosch
+<edx|breakfast> cya.
+<--     edx|breakfast has quit ("school")
+<--     calpefrosch has quit ()
+*       adi|home pokes Bagder in the forehead
+*       Bagder hrmpfs
+<adi|home>      how did the background suddenly go green on the uisimulator?
+<Bagder>        I changed it to look slightly more like a real recorder
+<adi|home>      k... but is the width correct?  seems to be wider then my screen.
+<Bagder>        having white on black was too far
+<Bagder>        the square is drawn outside the actual size
+<adi|home>      ?
+<Bagder>        actually 3 pixels outside I believe
+<Bagder>        I should change that
+<Bagder>        we should have exactly 112x64 within the square
+<adi|home>      well... define 'square'
+<adi|home>      the full app?
+<adi|home>      because i don't see any boarder inside the app.
+<Bagder>        you don't?
+<Bagder>        wait
+<Bagder>        grrr
+<Bagder>        my X-redirect over ssh is not working properly
+<adi|home>      sorry :(
+<Bagder>        anyway
+<adi|home>      if you want.. i can give you a screen shot of what i see.
+<Bagder>        there's meant to be a box within the windows
+<Bagder>        -s
+<Bagder>        the box us meant to define the actual recorder lcd size
+<adi|home>      okay.. i get the box as soon as the menu loads, but not before...
+<adi|home>      which seems odd
+<Bagder>        well, it might be because my silliness ;-)
+<Bagder>        I mean
+<Bagder>        it could possibly be fixed in the code
+<Bagder>        I haven't bothered that much
+<adi|home>      not really needed... was just curious :)
+<Bagder>        heh, ok, I committed a little fix now that should make the box appear before the app gets called
+<adi|home>      nod
+<adi|home>      did you change the makefile as well?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        didn't work on Solaris
+<adi|home>      heheh k... cause now it bitchs on linux ;)
+<adi|home>      ill look into it 
+<Bagder>        ok, hang on
+<Bagder>        now
+<adi|home>      interesting.. dind't know you could do +=
+<adi|home>      in a make... cool.
+<Bagder>        I'm not 100% that is really kosher Make
+<Bagder>        but we're already using gmake extensions
+<adi|home>      nods
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Bagder>        morning
+<Zagor> morn
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        morning Linus
+<Linus> Hey ho
+<adi|home>      on a win machine, does sleep(1) sleep for one second or what?
+<Bagder>        edx's simulator has its own sleep() that is shorter
+<adi|home>      k...
+<Bagder>        the x11 one will too, to better much the target sleep()
+<Zagor> to better much? :)
+<Bagder>        gee
+<Bagder>        match
+<adi|home>      cause i was wondering if it made sense to have a sleep in uisim or so...
+*       Bagder smacks himself
+<adi|home>      one with #defines for win and *nix
+<adi|home>      *nixs calling utime
+<Zagor> we have a sleep() in kernel.h
+<adi|home>      ahh.. we do?
+<adi|home>      does it work :)
+<Zagor> yes. sleep(ticks)
+<Bagder>        apart from utime() not being very portable...
+<Zagor> the declaration works excellent :-)
+*       adi|home giggles
+<adi|home>      ummm. wtf is TIME_BEFORE?
+<Zagor> it's a wrap-safe macro to compare ticks, for timeout handling
+<Zagor> "if (current_tick < timeout)" is not wrap safe
+<adi|home>      nods
+<Zagor> "if (TIME_BEFORE(current_tick,timeout))" is
+<adi|home>      what exactlly does 'wrap safe' mean?
+<adi|home>      and since TIME_BEFORE(a,b) is just a macro of TIME_AFTER, why not just call TIME_AFTER?
+<Zagor> it means the comparison still works if "timeout" is just below the wrap value and you compare after current_time wraps
+<adi|home>      umm.. k
+<Zagor> having both macros is just to make the source a little more clear. (instead of if(!TIME_AFTER())
+<adi|home>      that makes sense..
+---     Tumm is now known as coyote-
+<adi|home>      do you see lcd_drawpixel being any faster then lcd_drawline
+<adi|home>      if you want to draw a line :)
+<Zagor> umm, no
+<adi|home>      makes more sense to call drawline, no?
+<Zagor> yes
+<adi|home>      nods
+<adi|home>      k, then im fixing tetris
+<Zagor> ah :)
+<Zagor> first step to scaleability
+<Bagder>        Zagor: what'll be the name of the root dir?
+<adi|home>      ummm, root ;)
+<Zagor>  /
+*       Bagder considers having a go at some directory stuff later on
+<Zagor> neat
+<Zagor> we'll support different partitions, but only one at a time for starters
+<adi|home>      im gonna ask a really foolish question, but...
+<Zagor> (in fact, the fat32 code isn't working on partitioned disks right now...)
+<adi|home>      considering we are working on our own kernel and file stuff...
+<adi|home>      how exactly do you write, well.. 'open()' and 'readdir()'?
+<adi|home>      w/o unix or win calls?
+*       adi|home has never gotten that deep
+<Zagor> we have our own everything
+<Bagder>        unix/posix style
+<Zagor> open() calls fat_open(), which calls ata_read()
+<adi|home>      got ya...
+<Zagor> we have a severe NIH syndrome ;)
+<adi|home>      and aside from peering over your shoulders, how does one go about learning this?
+<adi|home>      NIH syndrome?
+<Zagor> "Not Invented Here"
+<adi|home>      lol
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs06m-3-131.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        we must document the APIs
+<alkorr>        hi
+<adi|home>      so were still at the: "E=mc^2 => *insert magic here* => universe is born"
+<adi|home>      kinda stage
+<Zagor> learning about it... hmm, reading books about operating system design, I guess.
+<Zagor> or reading source code :-P
+<Zagor> nah, practically no magic left. we only need to glue the pieces together
+<Bagder>        hi alan
+-->     wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> ah, alan! hi.
+<Bagder>        'lo wavey
+<wavey> hi guys
+<alkorr>        what's up ?
+<Bagder>        the x11 sim runs on solaris again :-)
+<Bagder>        unfortunately, I need to work too much...
+<wavey> tell me about it :(
+*       wavey considers quitting work to concentrate on rockbox
+<wavey> do you guys give sick leave? :)
+<Bagder>        I should
+<adi|home>      sure do...
+<adi|home>      you leave...
+<adi|home>      and ill make you sick
+<wavey> hehe
+-->     calpefrosch (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has joined #rockbox
+<calpefrosch>   hi
+<Zagor> hi
+<calpefrosch>   did you discuss the button-thing with edx yesterday?
+<Zagor> no
+<Zagor> i had to run off
+<calpefrosch>   hmm, ok. 
+<alkorr>        ok i have some problems with my emails
+<alkorr>        new commitings ?
+<wavey> nothing came thru here in the last 15 mins
+<wavey> but my company run m$ exchange, so i'm surprised when any get through
+<alkorr>        i wasn't here 15 ago :)
+<alkorr>        15 mins ago
+<wavey> :)
+<alkorr>        Bagder: you create x11 in uisimulator as a module ?
+<alkorr>        i was forced to do a checkout instead of a update for uisimulator to get x11
+<Zagor> alan: you need to run "update -dP" to get new directories
+<alkorr>        yes but that's strange
+<alkorr>        because when a directory is created in firmware. With a update, i get it.
+<alkorr>        so i was wondering what the difference should be 
+<Zagor> strange
+<adi|home>      can someone look at tetris.c and tell me if im missing something?
+<adi|home>      function draw_block
+<adi|home>      should be around line 126
+<adi|home>       if ( (clear ? 0 : block+1) )
+<adi|home>      wouldn't it just make more sense to do "if (!clear)"
+*       Zagor agrees
+<Zagor> unless block is ever -1
+<adi|home>      would be a little less, um... obfuscated no?
+<adi|home>      shouldn't be, block should always be positive
+<adi|home>      im gonna play and see
+<Zagor> I didn't write the code from scratch, I stole most of it. There, blame assigned elsewhere.
+<adi|home>      ehehe 
+<adi|home>      im not blaming.. just wanna feel like im doing something useful, and this time of night i hove no confidence ;)
+<alkorr>        adi: please, stop with obfuscating feeling
+<alkorr>        adi: for me, clear ? 0 : block+1 is clear
+<Zagor> alkorr: but surely, (!clear) is even more clear
+<alkorr>        adi: i suppose i are clever enough to catch it, aren't you ?
+*       adi|home nods
+<adi|home>      but i have to stop and think about it.
+<alkorr>        sorry
+<alkorr>        i mean : you are clever enough...
+<adi|home>      why both with a ternary operator when "if(clear)" is obvious ;)
+<adi|home>      code should only make you think when it has to...
+<adi|home>      but thats just my opinion
+<alkorr>        adi : sorry, but if (!clear) is not the same as if (clear ? 0 : (block + 1)) !?
+<Zagor> adi|home: go over it again. that 'block+1' has me worried. why is it even there?
+<Linus> I can't stop thinking that the ternary operator is there for a reason...
+<adi|home>      thats why i asked.
+<adi|home>      far as i can see, i cant see how block would be negative
+<adi|home>      0, sure, but can't see negative
+<Zagor> ok, try it. if it works, it works
+<adi|home>      and if its zero, then in this case it becomes 1
+*       adi|home shrugs
+<alkorr>        oh well i you can give us an evidence that "block" could never be -1, okay
+<adi|home>      04:41  here...
+<Zagor> hehe
+<adi|home>      thats why i asked for confrimation :)
+<alkorr>        right i cannot :)
+<alkorr>        now
+<adi|home>      nods
+<adi|home>      then we leave it be :)
+<Bagder>        I'd write it (clear || (-1 == block))
+<alkorr>        arf
+<adi|home>      lol
+<Bagder>        uh
+<Bagder>        no
+<Zagor> block is the block type: 0-6
+<Zagor> it can't ever be negative
+<Zagor> it must be a late-night leftover from the author
+*       adi|home points at the clock and says 'ha!'
+<adi|home>      i defy you sleep!
+*       adi|home slaps mr. sleep around
+<alkorr>        please chech the precedency
+<alkorr>        check
+<Bagder>        ?
+<Bagder>        that doesn't change much here
+<adi|home>      the statement is:  if ( (clear ? 0 : block+1) ) 
+<alkorr>        i don't remmeber if clear ? 0 : block + 1
+<adi|home>      and clear is supposedly a bool.
+<adi|home>      ahh.. so what you think is that its maybe
+<alkorr>        is (clear ? 0 : block +1) or (clear ? 0 : (block + 1))
+<adi|home>      if (( (clear ? 0 : block) + 1))
+<Bagder>        alkorr: they're the same
+<Bagder>        +1 is way much higher than ?:
+<Bagder>        prioritized
+<adi|home>      nods
+<adi|home>      either way... 
+<adi|home>      if clear == 1
+<adi|home>      we get 0
+<adi|home>      or 0 +1
+<alkorr>        it doesn't make a sense
+<alkorr>        what could be the value of clear
+<alkorr>        if would be true
+<alkorr>        it
+<alkorr>        especially if block is never -1
+<adi|home>      i don't get what you are saying al
+<Bagder>        if block can't be -1, we can make it if(!clear)
+<adi|home>      nods
+<alkorr>        if clear == 0 and block >= 0, ((clear ? 0 : block) + 1) => block + 1 >= 1  
+<alkorr>        if clear == 1 and block >= 0, ((clear ? 0 : block) + 1) => 0 + 1 == 1 
+<alkorr>        so your "if" is always true !?
+<adi|home>      right...
+<alkorr>        unless block can be -1
+<adi|home>      sooooo precidence is ((clear > 0 : (block +1))
+<Bagder>        no
+<adi|home>      since block can be 0
+<Bagder>        if clear is TRUE
+<Bagder>        the first block is NOT run
+*       adi|home nods
+<Bagder>        no matter what block is
+<alkorr>        .me nods
+*       alkorr nods :)
+>Bagder<        lotsa discussion for clear code ;) 
+<alkorr>        uh
+<alkorr>        Bagder: you said : "if clear == 1 and block == 0 ?"
+*       Zagor proposes if (clear) clearpixel(); else drawpixel();
+<Bagder>        alkorr: if(!clear || (-1 == block))
+*       adi|home agrees with zagor
+<alkorr>        hey ! we were speaking about the ternary version !!!
+<Zagor> alkorr: it's the same logic result
+<Zagor> if clear==0, it doesn't matter what block is
+<Zagor> sorry, the opposite :)
+<Zagor> baaaah
+<alkorr>        nooooo
+<alkorr>        if you have "if ((whatever) + 1)", this 'if' is always true except when whatever is -1
+<alkorr>        now 'whatever' is clear ? 0 : block 
+<Zagor> yes, but this is not the statement here. we have
+<alkorr>        so for whatever to be -1, block must be -1
+<alkorr>        that's all
+<alkorr>        if it doesn't make a sense to have block == -1
+<Zagor> but if clear==1, block kan be whatever because it's never evaluated
+<alkorr>        well i'm okay this ternary is a non sense
+<Bagder>        if block would be -1, we would read outside the array anyway
+<alkorr>        if clear == -1, clear ? 0 : block always returns 0, then added to 1 => 'if' is again true
+<alkorr>        clear = 1
+<Zagor> now stop arguing and clean up the mess! :-)
+<alkorr>        argh mistake
+<alkorr>        well we aggree on the fact that this ternary is a non-sense if we are sure that block would never be -1, so "if (clear)" is the rigth thing to do
+<adi|home>      already commited :)
+<Bagder>        its wrong ;-)
+<adi|home>      btw.. anyone know if edx is willing to make up other shirts and mail them out for a fee?
+<adi|home>      is it?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        it should be if(!clear) to match the former
+<Bagder>        or switch the blocks
+<adi|home>      no it shouldn't 
+<adi|home>      i did
+<Bagder>        ah you did
+*       adi|home nods
+<Bagder>        didn't spot that
+<Bagder>        sorry
+<alkorr>        lol
+<Zagor> adi|home: you used TABs!
+<adi|home>      but i forgot to go into rockbox mode when i edited, so spacing is messed up :( ill fix it
+<adi|home>      Iknow.. im fixing it
+*       Zagor spanks adi
+<Bagder>        uh
+*       adi|home shivers with pleasure
+<alkorr>        i was afraid that you didn't aggree on the final result
+<Zagor> wrong-sized too...
+<adi|home>      no.. only wrong sized for rockbox ;)
+<Zagor> bah, no sane man uses TAB!=8
+*       Zagor holds The One Truth
+<adi|home>      i don't
+<adi|home>      i use 4 spaces
+<alkorr>        I use 2 spaces
+<adi|home>      you prob also use a 140 char wide display too huh ;)
+<Zagor> i'm talking about the size of TAB, not indentation
+<alkorr>        yes we know :)
+<alkorr>        for assembly, i use a 8-space tab, for c/c++ 2-space tab
+<adi|home>      fixed
+<Zagor> alkorr: that's criminal. why don't you just use spaces?
+<alkorr>        because in fact, tab are turned into spaces :P
+<Zagor> ah
+<adi|home>      because there are only 2 developers in my office, we came from the same college, so we do it _our_ way...
+*       Zagor breathes a sigh of relief
+<adi|home>      so there
+<alkorr>        except for assembly code of course
+*       adi|home sticks his tongue out at Zagor
+*       Zagor takes his ball and goes home
+<adi|home>      lol
+<adi|home>      oh.. and i figured out why tetris doesn't end.
+*       Bagder smacks the "code police" stick in Zagor's forehead
+<alkorr>        lol
+*       Zagor wears it proudly
+<Zagor>  /me frenzy
+<Bagder>        sticker I meant to write
+<adi|home>      im too tired to rework it, but its basically the calls to valid position
+<alkorr>        okay i must depart, some people are waiting for me to have a lunch
+<alkorr>        see you
+<Zagor> bye
+<adi|home>      you don't know exactly why it fails, so it just continues playing...
+<--     alkorr has quit ()
+<adi|home>      need a seperate check to see if we reached the top line
+<adi|home>      or limit
+<adi|home>      and on that.. i bid you .... fondu...
+---     You are now known as adi|asleep
+<Zagor> mm, fondue...
+*       wavey cmiles
+*       wavey blinks
+*       wavey smiles
+*       Bagder got a mail from a Kjell Ericson who said he's working on a "magnifyer" for the x11 sim
+<wavey> cool
+*       Zagor just got the donated Archos working with gdb
+*       Zagor cheers
+<Bagder>        great!
+<Linus> Well, actually, it's a marriage between his newly-swapped Player and the donated one...
+<Zagor> yeah, so we have the wrong flash
+<Zagor> so the built-in firmware can't control the LCD
+*       Linus feels like Frankenstein
+<Bagder>        oh
+<Zagor> this is great, now I can debug the ata code
+<Zagor> how can we fix so debugf() calls are not even called in "release" code?
+<Linus> Maybe a DEBUGF() macro?
+<Bagder>        DEBUG(("moo %d", 23)); ?
+<Linus> DEBUGF("%d", x);
+<Zagor> yes but that limits the use to a single line, which is not always practical
+<Zagor> plus, macros don't have variable parameters
+<Linus> They do in gcc
+<Zagor> ah, ok
+<Linus> SIngle line?
+<Bagder>        but be careful if you wanna be able to run that code in debug purpose with other compilers
+<Zagor> Linus: you can't write:
+<Zagor> DEBUGF("asdalkdkajsdl kasdl %d %d %d %d %d",
+<Zagor>   val1,
+<Zagor>   val2,
+<Zagor>   val3 ); etc.
+<Linus> Ah. I thought the preprocessor recognizer the parentheses...
+<Linus> recognized
+<Zagor> umm, i'm sure it does.
+<Linus> So...?
+<Zagor> i just haven't had my piiza today
+*       Zagor hides in a corner
+<Linus> You mean chicken?
+<Linus> Sambal
+<Zagor> adi promised fondue... :)
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|lunch
+---     Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
+---     calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|lunc
+-->     simo (~NWO@ws2014.tu-varna.acad.bg) has joined #rockbox
+<simo>  hy
+<simo>  hi
+<Bagder>        hey ho
+<simo>  everyones
+<Bagder>        lots of people eating right now... I'm about to do that too!
+<simo>  ooo sorry
+<simo>  if you want eat
+<simo>  :)
+<simo>  do you can help me
+<Bagder>        with what?
+<simo>  do you can tell me any channel for HARDCORE music
+<Bagder>        no idea
+<simo>  ok
+<simo>  or any for hard music
+<Bagder>        nope
+<simo>  ok
+<simo>  10x
+<--     simo (~NWO@ws2014.tu-varna.acad.bg) has left #rockbox
+---     calpefrosch|lunc is now known as calpefrosch
+---     Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor
+<Zagor> bwahaha
+<Zagor> my current client got som many hits from a link on my web page they have complained...
+<Bagder>        they complained on you having a link to them?
+<Linus|lunch>   Yes they did.
+---     Linus|lunch is now known as Linus
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+*       Bagder is now chatting from his home again... aaaah
+<wavey> grrr
+<wavey> wish i was home
+<wavey> i keep getting interrupted from playlist coding
+*       Bagder fixes the id3.c to use the proper file api
+<Zagor> Bagder: how about adjusting your little menu program to read a directory, parse the id3 tags and show the files?
+<Zagor> umm, strike the id3 part. just read the dir and show the filenames
+<Bagder>        now, how did you know I was about to do that? ;-)
+<Zagor> ah, goodie
+<Bagder>        first fix the id3
+<Bagder>        then read dir
+<Bagder>        and show it
+<wavey> what about the lack of opendir on win32?
+<Bagder>        they need to emulate that
+<Bagder>        edx is onto that
+<wavey> coolio
+<wavey> i had thought cygwin had wrapped those calls, but apparently not :(
+<Bagder>        edx doesn't use cygwin
+<wavey> 2 questions: the CONTRIB file says no 'const' and no new types.
+<wavey> why the former, and what do you mean by the latter?
+*       Bagder redirects those sorts of questions to Zagor, the code police ;-)
+<wavey> eg: void get_indices_as_string( char *string, playlist_info_t *playlist )
+<wavey> does that break both rules? :)
+<Bagder>        regarding the type thing, I don't think that concerns structs
+<wavey> damn, i mean const char *string
+<Bagder>        it's more the uint32 things etc
+<wavey> ah, goodie
+<wavey> i did wonder.
+<Bagder>        the const stuff, I don't know why it is said so
+<wavey> i like to flag unchanging strings as so, to help the compiler let me know if i fuck up
+<Bagder>        the compiler can also do better optimizations when const is used
+<wavey> yus
+<Bagder>        id3.c fixed
+<wavey> does id3.c still have main() defined?
+<Zagor> the reason I don't want people to use const is that many people tend to overuse it
+<Bagder>        within an #ifdef DEBUG_STANDALONE
+-->     elinenbe (~chatzilla@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<wavey> b: ok
+<Zagor> or use it wrong, so you can't (for instance) call a function with a dynamically generated string
+<wavey> z: what is overuse?
+<wavey> ah ok
+<Zagor> the "new type" rule is just like bagder said. also I prefer to have structs as structs, not as typedefs
+<Zagor> that way, it's plainly obvious it's a struct and not some other magic type
+<wavey> oh, ok
+<Bagder>        regarding file operations
+<Bagder>        do you mind if I just come up with a relative path we use as root when simulating?
+<Bagder>        like "archos" or so
+<wavey> z: struct playlist_info *playlist   in place of playlist_info_t *playlist ?
+<Zagor> how do you mean?
+<Zagor> wavey: yes, preferrably
+<wavey> ok, no prob
+*       wavey changes a millon prototypes
+<Bagder>        Zagor: I need a simulated hard drive
+<Bagder>        that opendir("/") opens
+<Zagor> Bagder: ok. so basically the simulator defines the root as some specific directory
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Zagor> but the application code never knows it's not the root
+<Bagder>        right
+<Zagor> i'm all for it
+<Bagder>        the application uses / for root
+*       Bagder calculates, 112/6 = 18 letters in a single line
+<Zagor> i was thinking, wouldn't it be a good idea to word-wrap filenames?
+<Bagder>        not sure
+<Zagor> personally, I prefer seeing the whole name of a few rather than half the name of many
+<Bagder>        they're sometimes so extremely long
+<Bagder>        anyway, I'll start with something simple for now
+<calpefrosch>   What did you do with my code for the simulator ? btw, I'm ashamed of having tabs in the code....
+*       Bagder hrmpfs at the added #ifdef WIN32 in the app.c code...
+<Bagder>        calpefrosch: you should make diffs and mail instead
+<calpefrosch>   ok, I will do that in future. the ifdef is not my work
+<Bagder>        no, I didn't mean that either, sorry
+<calpefrosch>   ok
+<calpefrosch>   the major change it made was the different key-handling. we should talk about the right way to handle the keys ( in win32 AND firmware)
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Zagor> i propose single-key events
+<Zagor> just like win32 and x11
+<calpefrosch>   1. the button is pressed, so an interrupt occure
+<Zagor> no interrupts
+<calpefrosch>   ah
+<calpefrosch>   so you poll the ports, right ?
+<Zagor> yes
+<calpefrosch>   ok, if a button is recognized, the thread sends a message to the main-queue
+<Zagor> my thinking is more:
+<Zagor> the timer interrupt polls the keys
+<Zagor> if a change is detected (or "repeat" is triggered),
+<Zagor> it sends a message to the UI thread
+<calpefrosch>   so a "repeat" is only one message ? 
+<Zagor> "repeat" is triggered by a key behing kept down during X consecutive polls
+<Zagor> good question
+<Zagor> we should probably have a defined repeat rate
+<calpefrosch>   I think in the win32-sim windows creates the messages
+<calpefrosch>   like in windows...
+<calpefrosch>   in dos 6.22 (e.g.) the keyboard generates the repeat. I thi nkin windows windows does..
+<calpefrosch>   ok, next. Let's say the timer-thread creates one message ( single, or every second if repeat)
+<calpefrosch>   what will the ui-thread do with the message?
+<Zagor> it will get it from the queue with button_get()
+<Zagor> then it will, well, do what applications do :)
+<calpefrosch>   tnx ;-)
+<calpefrosch>   the button_get will scan the queue for a button-event, or the application will do something if there IS a button event?
+<Bagder>        wocka
+<Bagder>        showing a dir ;-)
+<Zagor> nice!
+<Bagder>        I'll commit
+<Bagder>        not very fancy, but it works
+---     Disconnected (Connection timed out).
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Apr 30 09:33:31 2002
+
diff --git a/www/irc/rockbox-20020502.log b/www/irc/rockbox-20020502.log
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@@ -0,0 +1,1869 @@
+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May  2 23:05:32 2002
+
+-->     adiamas (~adiamas@as5300-9.216-194-23-96.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     Topic for #rockbox is Open Source Jukebox Firmware - http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+---     Topic for #rockbox set by Zagor at Fri Apr 12 09:45:52
+<miah>  dah
+<adiamas>       mah
+-->     [TDM]Mr_B|away (~nx_2000@ip68-0-62-70.no.no.cox.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     [TDM]Mr_B|away is now known as [TDM]Mr_B
+<--     [TDM]Mr_B has quit ()
+<adiamas>       hmmm
+<miah>  hrm?
+<adiamas>       nothing.. just makeing updates to the uisim...
+<adiamas>       tetris now plays a bit nice with ppl...
+<adiamas>       and the menuing of the sim works properly./
+<miah>  nice
+<--     edx|sleeping has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<miah>  i've been following the project for a couple months now.. looks like things are getting there
+<miah>  i can't wait
+<adiamas>       are you on a win machine or a *nix?
+<miah>  unix
+<miah>  and windows
+<adiamas>       then you should pull down the sorce and play with the sim a bit :)
+<miah>  my unix boxes all lack X
+<adiamas>       ahhh.. 
+<miah>  yea, i havnt had much time to play with stuff lately
+<adiamas>       that could be a prob...
+<miah>  im working on a linux distro
+<adiamas>       nice... what pulled you into that?
+<miah>  well, i worked at turbolinux for a while
+<miah>  and then at penguin computing..
+<miah>  doing security / sys admin stuff.. been doing alot of sysadmin / security stuff basically
+<PsycoXul>      ok the cursor for the menu's
+<miah>  and got sick of installing and then configuring things to the way i liked them
+<PsycoXul>      it gets put back on tetris when i go to browse or rockabox
+<PsycoXul>      but its still actualy on browse or rockabox
+<miah>  so i started building my own stuff, so it would save me time..
+<PsycoXul>      and neither of them are doing anything for me
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<miah>  but i've been working on it for about a year now
+<adiamas>       hmm... let me look
+<adiamas>       hehe i know what it is.. one sec
+-->     calpefrosch (calpefrosc@p5082C7A8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #rockbox
+---     calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|away
+<adiamas>       okay.. which makes more sense...
+<adiamas>       you choose a menu..
+<adiamas>       enter it
+<adiamas>       when you come back out
+<adiamas>       should the cursor be at the top again, or where you left off?
+<adiamas>       im mixed on it
+<PsycoXul>      i say where you left off
+<miah>  where you left off..
+<adiamas>       cool.
+<PsycoXul>      and whichever it is, it should be consistent
+<adiamas>       well.. i sense a series of funcitons coming for menuing
+<PsycoXul>      the current firmware for the player does both in various places of the menu and its annoying heh
+<adiamas>       okay.. fixed
+<adiamas>       pull it down and try it
+<PsycoXul>      actualy its really screwy cause sometimes it goes to the top, sometimes it goes to where it was, and sometimes it goes to a different place in the menu 1 level up... heh [the archos player firmware, that is]
+*       adiamas nods
+<adiamas>       im going to be thinking about it over the weekend.. it irks me too
+*       adiamas takes a bit to switch gears from c++ mode to c mode
+<adiamas>       i miss classes _so_ much in a case like this :)
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      ok so yeah thats better
+*       adiamas nods
+<adiamas>       now i just want to slow down tetris,
+<adiamas>       fix scoring
+<PsycoXul>      browse and rockabox still don't do anything, and if you press left after pressing right on rockabox the items all go blank and you're left with just a cursor
+<adiamas>       well.. the browse
+<adiamas>       you need to add a 'archos' directory to your files
+<adiamas>       that is being used to represent the '/' on the player
+<PsycoXul>      where?
+<PsycoXul>      ah got it
+<PsycoXul>      nice
+<adiamas>       in the x11 dir or win dir you are using
+<adiamas>       now.. lets see if i can replicate your other issue
+<adiamas>       yeah.. roxabox is more of a place holder...
+<adiamas>       just something for the screen.. ill remove it.
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      so how much of this works target?
+<adiamas>       come again?
+<PsycoXul>      er
+<PsycoXul>      how much of this works on target?
+<PsycoXul>      you know actualy runs on the units
+<adiamas>       hmm i can't replicate your blanking when you go left after going right.
+<adiamas>       none yet
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      none?
+<adiamas>       the simulator just lets us higher level coders start using the api we are developing
+<PsycoXul>      the lcd/button stuff should work no?
+<adiamas>       well.. some barebones stuff has been worked on..
+<adiamas>       but no apps and such...
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      tetris and the screensaver should be able to run on it i would think
+<adiamas>       im not about to toss this stuff onto my unit yet ;)
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<adiamas>       okay.. newest version up.. try it now
+<adiamas>       PsycoXul are you working on windows or lin?
+<PsycoXul>      linux
+<adiamas>       k...
+<adiamas>       im waiting on one of the windows guys.. make sure this stuff works for them...
+<adiamas>       i dont think they would have a prob.. but you never know
+<PsycoXul>      so what i was really asking is how much of the api's used in the sim's little app/tetris/screensaver/browse are implemented for the target
+<adiamas>       everything that runs on/in the sim is using our api... so as far as i know.. most/all
+<adiamas>       though... you'd need to confirm that with Zagor and Bagder and edx
+<adiamas>       they tend to be involved with more of the on metal stuff
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      ok it looks that the file/directory stuff is still unimplemented 
+<adiamas>       thats part of what they are working on :)
+-->     Bagder2 (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<adiamas>       hey Bagder2
+<Bagder2>       morning
+<Bagder2>       :-)
+*       Bagder2 tries to figure out why there's a Bagder still present
+<adiamas>       there isn't on my list
+<Bagder2>       no, but if you /whois bagder, there is one
+<adiamas>       hmm.. odd
+<adiamas>       PsycoXul wanna do me a favor?
+<--     calpefrosch|away has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<Bagder2>       adiamas: we should rework the menu in app.c to support being longer than can be shown on screen
+<Bagder2>       imho
+*       adiamas nods
+<adiamas>       thats what im working on now ;)
+<adiamas>       but i also want to do a 'menu.c/h'
+*       Bagder2 bows in front of adiamas
+<adiamas>       so makes it easier for sub menus
+<Bagder2>       goodie
+<Bagder2>       I'll try to attack the dir browser more this weekend
+<adiamas>       sweet
+<adiamas>       oh.. btw.. off now turns off the sim on the main menu
+<Bagder2>       ok, seems reasonable
+<adiamas>       i thought so ;)
+<adiamas>       anyone mind if i remove the KEY PRESSED: output on stdout?
+<Bagder2>       no
+<Bagder2>       you can remove the lcd_update() crap too
+<adiamas>       k..
+<Bagder2>       we'll put it back the day we need to debug those things
+<Bagder2>       no need to have them there all the time
+<adiamas>       k.. then ill just comment them out
+<adiamas>       where in the hell is that beep coming from!
+<miah>  
+<miah>  =)
+<adiamas>       no ..
+<adiamas>       ive got that turned off ;)
+<adiamas>       i mean from the sim
+<Bagder2>       yeah I kinda hate that beep too
+<adiamas>       dude.. i don't know who just put in that last feature request, but they are sick :)
+*       Bagder2 agrees
+<adiamas>       when i do a cvs update
+<adiamas>       and i get an 'M' before a file...
+<adiamas>       whats that mean?
+<Bagder2>       Merge
+<Bagder2>       you have local changes
+<adiamas>       nods
+-->     calpefrosch (~calpefros@p5082C7A8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Bagder2>       morning Zagor
+<Zagor> ello
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder2>       morning Linus
+<Linus> Morning Bagder2
+<Bagder2>       Linus / Zagor you plan to go to the Appeal party tonight?
+<Zagor> yep
+<Bagder2>       me too
+<PsycoXul>      adiamas: what kind of favor?\
+<adiamas>       nevermind :)
+<PsycoXul>      ok sorry
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Linus> I am  not going
+<calpefrosch>   morning..(#)
+<calpefrosch>   for the simulator, which files do I have to create ?
+<adiamas>       what do you mean?
+<calpefrosch>   I created a \playlists\1.m3u, but I get a strange output
+<calpefrosch>   like: filename:     Pý°
+<calpefrosch>   load_playlist( £C )
+<adiamas>       dunno...
+<Bagder2>       what do you do to get that output?
+<calpefrosch>   compiled the simulator with VC++ and started it... 
+<Bagder2>       oh
+<calpefrosch>   Oh, I had to define the DEBUGF for VC++
+<calpefrosch>   -> #define DEBUGF debugf in debug.h
+<Bagder2>       I don't know why edx has involved the playlist stuff in the simulator at this point
+<calpefrosch>   ahh, you mean it is not ready to test...
+<Bagder2>       well, there shouldn't be any code calling any playlist functions
+<Bagder2>       since the app.c has no code to do that
+<calpefrosch>   he is calling the harness.c
+<Bagder2>       ... and that is badness
+<calpefrosch>   hmm
+<Bagder2>       the harness.c is the test code for the playlist, it isn't meant to run in a simulator
+<calpefrosch>   hehe, now it's working :-)
+*       adiamas nods
+<adiamas>       okay... i think im done for the evening...
+<adiamas>       sleepy time...
+<Bagder2>       night adiamas
+<adiamas>       and at the request of you europeans.. i am not going 'nappy' ;)
+<Bagder2>       haha
+<adiamas>       im bedding
+<calpefrosch>   good night
+---     You are now known as adi|asleep
+<--     calpefrosch (~calpefros@p5082C7A8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has left #rockbox
+---     Bagder2 is now known as Bagder
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|lunch
+-->     Nm`jaK^j (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Nm`jaK^j is now known as Bagder3
+---     Bagder3 is now known as Bagder44
+<Bagder44>      grrr
+<Zagor> what's happening?
+<Bagder44>      my muh disconnected and had problems to reconnect
+<Bagder44>      the Bagder is a true irc ghost
+<Bagder44>      it looks like an ircd bug
+---     Linus|lunch is now known as Linus
+<Zagor> fun..
+<Zagor> weee, now I can read partitioned disks too...
+<Bagder44>      coolers
+<--     Bagder has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<Zagor> lookie :)
+---     Bagder44 is now known as Bagder
+<Bagder>        that took a while
+<Linus> Gentlemen! WE HAVE SOUND!!!!!!!!!
+<Zagor> goooooogogowooo
+*       Zagor is droooooling
+*       Linus is screaming with joy!
+<Zagor> everybody else is sleeping ;)
+<Linus> typical...
+<PsycoXul>      sound?
+<Linus> I have managed to play MP3 data with the MAS!
+<PsycoXul>      woo
+<Linus> Kicking!
+<Linus> A historical moment. The first group to have their song played in the Rockbox is Machinae Supremacy.
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Linus> They shoule be proud
+<Zagor> rather fitting, I'd say :)
+<Linus> or rather 4 seconds of the beginning of the song, but what the heck... :-)
+<Zagor> this is the track, btw: http://www.machinaesupremacy.com/machinae_supremacy_-_arcade.mp3
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        Zagor: you tried the ATA/FAT32 on target yet?
+<Zagor> no, not yet. tomorrow...
+<Linus> We have a silly problem with the serial connection to thw MAS.
+<Zagor> more "annoyance" than problem
+<Zagor> yet very annoying :)
+<Linus> The serial interface in the SH1 sends the data LSB first, but the MAS wants it MSB first.
+<Linus> We have to swap bit order of EVERY byte we read from the hard drive!!!
+<Linus> AAAAAAH!
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> Welcome!
+<Linus> I have good news!
+<elinenbe>      congradulations!!!!!!!!!
+<elinenbe>      woooo hooo!!!!
+<Linus> You heard!
+<elinenbe>      yes!!!
+<Linus> Thx
+<elinenbe>      that is awesome!
+<Linus> Indeed!
+<Bagder>        so every byte must be reversed bitwise?
+<elinenbe>      but why that song? :(  Something like Krudser & Dorfmeister would have been more appropriate :)
+<Zagor> haha
+<Linus> Who are they?
+<Linus> Bagder: Yes, every byte
+<Bagder>        nono this should've played:
+<Zagor> we didn't select very conciously, but I think it's rather appropriate actually
+<Bagder>        Run level zero - strapped to machinery.mp3
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<Linus> or "Living in a Box"
+<Bagder>        Linus: time for inlined assembler? B-]
+<Bagder>        call Alan!
+*       Bagder giggles
+<elinenbe>      well, they are DJs from Germany "Kruder & Dorfmeister"
+<Zagor> They make new versions of old C64 songs which they publish on the web. Sort of like we make a new firmware and publish it.
+<Linus> Or "4 sekunder" with Magnus Uggla
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<PsycoXul>      wait
+<PsycoXul>      new versions of old c64 songs?
+<PsycoXul>      why would you want to do that? the c64 had such a cool sound
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|celebratin
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: listen to their rendition of "giana sisters". they do it justice!
+*       Linus|celebratin goes to buy candy
+<Zagor> ("do it justice"?) sometimes I don't even understand my own writing...
+<Linus|celebratin>      Swenglish
+<Zagor> time for some candy celebration. brb
+<elinenbe>      Is everyone here a sugar-holic, or is that just me?
+*       Bagder is gonna get a can of coke instead
+<miah>  the sidchip rules
+<Bagder>        it does
+*       Bagder , Linus and Zagor did lots of C64 stuff back in the late 80s
+<miah>  i've been encoding all my stuff into ogg lately.. after im done doing that, im probably going to start leeching all the s3m,mod,xm's that i can
+<miah>  i already have tons of sids
+<miah>  on one of my systems somewhere
+<PsycoXul>      yeah ogg
+<miah>  oggs are good
+<PsycoXul>      there needs to be a way to play ogg on the archos
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<miah>  that'd be cool, i'd like to see mod/s3m/xm too
+<miah>  that should be easy since those formats require very little cpu power
+<Bagder>        well
+<Zagor> we need a DSP guru
+<PsycoXul>      it needs realtime mixing
+<Bagder>        we only have one chip that plays sound
+<miah>  yea
+<Zagor> miah: those formats require multichannel mixing, which we can't do
+<miah>  really?
+<PsycoXul>      how many channels does the mas support to decode?
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: one mp3 stream
+<Bagder>        Zagor: where can I find info about that Splimp thing you have for mp3-playback at home?
+<PsycoXul>      yes
+<miah>  my stupid laptop keeps going into sleep mode.. so annoying
+<PsycoXul>      but mp3 streams can be multi-channel no?
+<Zagor> Bagder: www.slimdevices.com
+<Bagder>        thanks
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: 2 channel, yes
+<PsycoXul>      well mp3 supports more than that
+<PsycoXul>      at least mpeg2 layer3
+<PsycoXul>      i dunno much about the actual format though
+<Zagor> still, we'd have to mix it *and* encode it in the cpu
+<PsycoXul>      are multiple channels stored within single frames, or are channel frames interpolated?
+<Zagor> feel free to try, but I think it'll be hard
+---     Linus|celebratin is now known as Linus
+<Zagor> i think it's in a single frame, but I'm not sure
+<PsycoXul>      well there's pcm playback firmware in existance for the mas... i wonder how many channels it can support of pcm like that
+<PsycoXul>      but pcm in low quality could probably be mixed by the sh1 maybe?
+<Linus> The PCm mode will probably support only 2 channels, since the application is stereo sound
+<PsycoXul>      true
+<Linus> At least the interface to the DAC is only 2 channels
+<Zagor> well we have no pcm mode yet, so whoever writes that will decide :)
+<Linus> I pass
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      so what kind of input does the dac take from the mas?
+<Linus> It's a serial interface, clock, data and frame sync
+<Linus> two time slots one for left channel, one for right
+<Linus> 16-bit or 32-bit
+-->     edx|sleeping (~edx@pD9EAAD21.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<edx|sleeping>  hi
+---     edx|sleeping is now known as edx
+<Linus> Morning!
+---     edx is now known as edx|away
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<Bagder>        Zagor: you wanna meet somewhere?
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     calpefrosch (calpefrosc@p5082C402.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #Rockbox
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     calpefrosch has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     calpefrosch (~hotrana@p5082C402.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #rockbox
+<--     calpefrosch has quit (Client Quit)
+-->     calpefrosch (~hotrana@p5082C402.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #rockbox
+---     calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|away
+-->     thomasvs (~thomas@217-136-252-195.skynet.be) has joined #rockbox
+<thomasvs>      kaping
+<thomasvs>      hello
+<thomasvs>      anyone around ?
+<--     calpefrosch|away has quit ()
+-->     calpefrosch (~hotrana@p5082C402.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #Rockbox
+---     calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|away
+<adi|asleep>    only for a sec.. on my way to work...
+<thomasvs>      ok
+<thomasvs>      ;)
+<thomasvs>      I was just wandering how much an archos player costs
+<miah>  about $300
+<adi|asleep>    you can check them out on ebay as well...
+<adi|asleep>    i picked mine up for about 200
+<thomasvs>      ok, thanks
+<elinenbe>      get the recoder... much nicer!
+<miah>  but arnt the player and recorder basically the same thing?
+<--     thomasvs has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<--     calpefrosch|away has quit ()
+<elinenbe>      yes, but no.  The recorder has a more able screen...
+<--     elinenbe has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.6 [Mozilla rv:0.9.9+/20020414]")
+-->     thomasvs (~thomas@80-200-37-136.adsl.powered-by.skynet.be) has joined #rockbox
+<--     edx|away has quit ()
+-->     edx|away (~edx@pD9EAAD21.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     thomasvs (~thomas@80-200-37-136.adsl.powered-by.skynet.be) has left #rockbox ("Client Exiting")
+<--     adi|work has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
+-->     adiamas (~adiamas@151.204.140.140) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<--     Zagor has quit ("bye")
+<PsycoXul>      anybody around? know um...
+<PsycoXul>      <segher> how many cycles to read/write that dram?
+<PsycoXul>      for the player?
+<PsycoXul>      <segher> well, this device is really tight on resources.  good luck.
+<PsycoXul>      <PsycoXul> heh
+<PsycoXul>      <PsycoXul> you think its possible?
+<PsycoXul>      <segher> might be possible, yes
+<PsycoXul>      <PsycoXul> i should send somebody who's more knowledgable on the hardware and 
+<PsycoXul>                 hax0ring in here to talk to you heh
+<PsycoXul>      ::: haze!chris@12-255-198-216.client.attbi.com has quit: Connection timed out
+<PsycoXul>      <segher> with highly optimized code, it should _just_ work.
+<PsycoXul>      ^^ #vorbis, on player's hardware potential for decoding ogg with mas3507d + sh1 cooperating
+<PsycoXul>      <segher> psyco: afaics, the MAS whould be able to do the (m)dct for you
+<PsycoXul>      <PsycoXul> ok
+<PsycoXul>      <segher> it will be quite some (fun!) work, though
+<--     edx|away has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+-->     calpefrosch (~calpefros@p5082C14D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #Rockbox
+<--     calpefrosch (~calpefros@p5082C14D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has left #Rockbox
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<adi|asleep>    hey zagor...
+<Zagor> hey
+<adi|asleep>    you see any problem if i hack out a menu.c/h over the weekend 
+<adi|asleep>    i figure im already noticing repetition in how ppl are looking to menu in the sim...
+<adi|asleep>    figured i cold give us a basis..
+<adi|asleep>    rather then reinventing the wheel.
+<Zagor> sure
+<adi|asleep>    have you played with the sim recently?
+<Zagor> no
+<adi|asleep>    ahh...
+<adi|asleep>    well.. tetris plays a bit nicer and we have a basic screen saver.....
+<PsycoXul>      i talked to somebody in #vorbis about ogg stuff on the hardware... here's what they said:
+<PsycoXul>      <segher> well, this device is really tight on resources.  good luck.
+<PsycoXul>       <segher> might be possible, yes
+<PsycoXul>      <segher> with highly optimized code, it should _just_ work.
+<PsycoXul>      <segher> psyco: afaics, the MAS whould be able to do the (m)dct for you
+<PsycoXul>      <segher> it will be quite some (fun!) work, though
+<Zagor> interesting
+<Zagor> nobody volunteered to help? ;)
+<adi|asleep>    oh.. zagor.. ment to ask...
+<PsycoXul>      nope heh
+<adi|asleep>    in the contrib file...
+<adi|asleep>    any reason your against const?
+<Zagor> yes, people tend to use it wrong
+<PsycoXul>      so i take it opendir(),readdir(), etc don't work on target yet? heh
+<Zagor> opendir/readdir works for the root dir, but currently not for subdirs. i'm fixing that right now
+<adi|asleep>    i have a habit of doing it.  bear with while i adjust :)
+<adi|asleep>    okay.. off to bed.. need 2 hrs...
+*       Zagor just got up :)
+<adi|asleep>    hehhe i _should_ be just getting up...
+<adi|asleep>    06:10... gotta love it..
+<PsycoXul>      Zagor: how do i open the root directory?
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: opendir("/")
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<adi|asleep>    Psyco check out tree.h and tree.c
+<PsycoXul>      well that doesn't seem to return on my unit
+<adi|asleep>    in uisim/x11
+<adi|asleep>    PsycoXul you need to add an "archos" dir
+<PsycoXul>      i'm not talking about in the sim
+<adi|asleep>    that is being used to simulate the '/' on the player
+<PsycoXul>      i got the sim browser to work
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<adi|asleep>    heheh ahh.. k
+<PsycoXul>      lemme see where its having problems actualy..
+<PsycoXul>      well first thing i notice is that on my player lcd_clear_display() misses the last 2 chars
+<PsycoXul>      and next is that
+<PsycoXul>              dir=opendir("/");
+<PsycoXul>      doesn't return
+<PsycoXul>      unless there's something i need to do before it that i'm not
+<Zagor> look in test/fat
+<PsycoXul>      heh thats kinda funny if you make clean with a clean tree it generates the dependancies and then removes them :p
+<Zagor> look in test/fat/main.c
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<Zagor> you need to run ata_init(), disk_init() and fat_mount() before you can start using the disk
+<PsycoXul>      ah ok
+<PsycoXul>      ok i see
+<PsycoXul>      anything to call later like to umount or spindown or something?
+<Zagor> you don't have to, no writing is implemented yet so it's failsafe
+<PsycoXul>      why is there a firmware/disk.h and firmware/common/disk.h
+<Zagor> firmware/disk.h will change, it's just a code container at the moment
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<PsycoXul>              lcd_puts(0,0,"Hello.");
+<PsycoXul>              if(ata_init()) {
+<PsycoXul>                      lcd_puts(0,0,"Disk error");
+<PsycoXul>                      return -1;
+<PsycoXul>              }       
+<PsycoXul>              lcd_puts(0,0,"ata init.");
+<PsycoXul>      all i get is "Hello."
+<Zagor> the ata code is not target tested yet, I'll be doing that today
+<PsycoXul>      ah
+<Zagor> now we know it doesn't work :)
+<PsycoXul>      hehe
+-->     edx|away (~edx@pD9EA97B2.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        hey ho
+<Zagor> hi
+<Bagder>        I'm thinking about the played lcd API, when using x y coordinates, is 0 the first line and 1 the second?
+<Bagder>        player
+<Bagder>        can't see any reason why not, just checking
+<Zagor> i agree
+---     Bagder is now known as Bagder|laundry
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     Bagder|laundry is now known as Bagder
+*       Bagder starts to get the player simulator going
+<Zagor> have you seen adis latest items on the faq?
+<Bagder>        nope
+<Zagor> s/latest/last/
+<Zagor> Q: But I _really_ want to talk with you in person.
+<Zagor> adiamas: I'm sorry.  My girlfriend/boyfriend/pet says I'm not allowed to, and the
+<Zagor>    doctors here won't let me have pens or pencils.  They say its some rule
+<Zagor>    about us not having sharp objects.  I'm sorry.  Now please stop calling me
+<Zagor>    here.
+<Bagder>        ah yes
+<Bagder>        that's a good one ;-)
+<Zagor> yes
+<PsycoXul>      ok so how do i use custom chars on the player LCD with the new codebase? there an api for it?
+<Bagder>        is that lcd_define_pattern() ?
+<PsycoXul>      is it?
+<Bagder>        I dunno ;-)
+<Zagor> yes
+<Zagor> I think so :)
+<PsycoXul>      heh so how do i use it? 
+<Zagor> 1. fix it
+<Zagor> 2. use it 
+<Zagor> :)
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Bagder>        3. add it to the simulator 
+<PsycoXul>      hehe
+<Zagor> yup, those are the official docs
+<Bagder>        I have to admit that my fixes to get the player-simulator running ain't the most beautiful ones you've seen
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      i just run my test code on my player 
+<Bagder>        since I want to use the bitmap functions
+<Bagder>        but simulate the charcell lcd api
+<PsycoXul>      i'd honestly much rather have a bootloader than a simulator personally, just wish i knew the first clue about making one heh
+*       Zagor just realized he has no sh-elf-gdb :(
+*       Bagder commits
+<PsycoXul>      hmmm....
+-->     calpefrosch|away (calpefrosc@p5082C14D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #Rockbox
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<PsycoXul>      how long does sleep(1) sleep for?
+<Zagor> one tick
+<--     calpefrosch|away has quit ()
+<PsycoXul>      how long is a tick?
+<Zagor> 1/HZ seconds
+<Zagor> HZ is defined in kernel.h
+<PsycoXul>      ah
+<PsycoXul>      ok lcd_backlight() doesn't do anything on my player
+<Zagor> ok
+<PsycoXul>      with 1 or 0 as the arg
+<Zagor> I guess the port pins differ
+<--     Zagor has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<--     elinenbe has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<--     PsycoXul has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<--     miah has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
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+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      i dunno
+<PsycoXul>      i do an lcd_puts and then a sleep(75); and then another lcd_puts() and i only get the 1st one
+<Zagor> you're on the cutting edge :)
+<Zagor> currently, sleep() only works right in the test/kernel code, since the main stuff doesn't have a timer interrupt enabled
+<PsycoXul>      ah
+<PsycoXul>      there an easy way to use it, or should i do something to sleep?
+<Zagor> i'd suggest a busy wait at the moment
+<PsycoXul>      whats that? :p
+<Zagor> a for() loop instead of the sleep
+<PsycoXul>      i see, so thats what thats called heh
+<Zagor> the term "busy" is used for when you don't allow other threads to execute
+<PsycoXul>      ok now this loop is working but within it i'm doing key=button_get(); if(key) { switch(key) { case etc etc } } 
+<PsycoXul>      i've got cases for BUTTON_DOWN, UP, ON, LEFT, RIGHT, and MENU, and default
+<PsycoXul>      and with our without a button pressed it hits default
+<PsycoXul>      s/our/or/
+<Zagor> sounds good
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      man
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      shouldn't a make clean rm */*.o too? and not generate dependancies? heh
+<Zagor> picky picky :)
+<PsycoXul>      oh come ON... umount's gonna hang now again already? fuck
+<Zagor> usb-storage is far from perfect...
+<PsycoXul>      well it needs to do something different thats for sure... can't accomplish much being forced to reboot at its random whims
+<PsycoXul>      at least like TIME OUT or SOMETHING
+<Zagor> he's doing a big rewrite for 2.5
+<PsycoXul>      reboot, turn the thing back on, plug it in, load the modules, copy a file and it hangs right there AGAIN
+<PsycoXul>      not a whole lot of things get me upset... but having to reboot over and over again because of some stupid device that shouldn't be having any problems to start with, much less make me have to actualy interrupt my system usage, and having to wait months/years for the fix is exactly why i don't run some OTHER OS
+<Zagor> heh, yeah...
+<Zagor> you should consider the serial port fix
+<PsycoXul>      goddamn i can't get this one little file copied on here now
+<PsycoXul>      3 reboots and it STILL fucking up
+<PsycoXul>      and then i'll still need to copy the real working firmware back on to there once i get this to work
+<PsycoXul>      i'll probably have to fucknig juggle hardware, boot it to windows and scandisk, juggle hardware back, boot back to linux, probably have to reboot a few more times 
+*       PsycoXul considers selling his archos and taking the money for vocal lessons
+<PsycoXul>      hey i can store a lot more than 20G worth of music in my head :p
+<Zagor> :)
+*       Zagor sings in a chamber choir
+<PsycoXul>      ok so i made the default do
+<PsycoXul>      snprintf(ugh,11,"%d",key);
+<PsycoXul>      lcd_puts(0,0,ugh);
+<Zagor> ok
+<PsycoXul>      i get 243 with no buttons, 242 for ON, 241 for menu, 227 for play/up, 211 for stop/down, 179 for left, and 115 for right
+<PsycoXul>      and various others with combinations heh
+<Zagor> from button_get() ?
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<Zagor> odd
+<Zagor> it should return 1,2,4,8 etc no?
+<PsycoXul>      well looking at the code, thats what you'd think.. heh
+<Zagor> uhu
+<PsycoXul>      same with or without calling button_init() first
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      btw i think portc & 0x10 gets triggered on the player when the stop buttons held for 3 seconds or whatever, just before it shuts off
+<Zagor> yes, that would be interesting
+<PsycoXul>      i don't even know what & does... i don't know much if anything about binary and binary operations or low-level programming or anything like that though...
+<PsycoXul>      my latest project with C was struggling to successfully read a wav header into a struct from stdin heh
+<Zagor> & is "and". portc & 0x10 tests if bit 4 is set in portc
+<PsycoXul>      bit 4?
+<Zagor> yes, bit0 = 0x01, 1=0x02, 2=0x04, 3=0x08, 4=0x10
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<PsycoXul>      know of any good online docs that'd teach me this kinda stuff? 
+<Zagor> umm, no
+<Zagor> :)
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Zagor> maybe http://www.learn-c.com/
+<Zagor> http://www.learn-c.com/boolean.htm
+<PsycoXul>      cool.. i'll read that later... enough hax0ring stuff today for me heh
+<Zagor> :)
+<--     Zagor has quit ("bye")
+<--     elinenbe has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<--     edx|away has quit ("brb")
+-->     edx (~edx@pD9EA97B2.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     PsycoXul has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<--     miah has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+-->     miah (21-ident-i@pihkal.com) has joined #rockbox
+-->     PsycoXul (psyco@adsl-63-205-40-140.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     Disconnected (Connection timed out).
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun May  5 01:46:26 2002
+
+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May  6 00:25:45 2002
+
+-->     stile (~adiamas@as5300-9.216-194-23-71.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     Topic for #rockbox is Open Source Jukebox Firmware - http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+---     Topic for #rockbox set by Zagor at Fri Apr 12 09:45:52
+<--     adiamas has quit (Killed (NickServ (Nickname Enforcement)))
+-->     lou_soyur (~adiamas@pool-151-204-140-140.ny325.east.verizon.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     You are now known as adiamas
+-->     [TDM]Mr_B|away (~nx_2000@ip68-0-62-70.no.no.cox.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     [TDM]Mr_B|away is now known as [TDM]Mr_B
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     ChanServ gives channel operator status to Bagder
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     hello?
+<Bagder>        hey ho
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     ...just an outsider with some questions
+<Bagder>        go ahead and ask, I'll try to answer
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     i've been following this project for a short while and i'm very interested...
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     I was wondering what progress you've made.  Is there anything working that a programming novice can use?
+<Bagder>        we're doing two different simulators, for running the app itself on host machines
+<Bagder>        one for win32, one for X11
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     is there an exe of that sim?
+<Bagder>        we do not have the app actually running on target just yet
+<Bagder>        edx is the author of the win32 simulator, we should ask him to post a binary on the web site
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     exactly what improvments/additions are you guys working on?
+<Bagder>        I think many of them are mentioned of the web site
+<Bagder>        we need to implement everything by ourselves
+<Bagder>        so we will try to write an mp3 player software that meets the audience demands
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     when do you think some of these enhancments will be avaliable for the layman to download?
+<Bagder>        we *hope* we will have the first actual target firmware that works *somewhat* before the end of this month
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     cool
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     how well does tretris work?
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     ...tetris
+<Bagder>        it works pretty good ;-)
+<Bagder>        no scores yet though
+<Bagder>        I expect that we will get even more programmers joining up the very second we have a first target version
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     i'm looking forward to all of it
+<Bagder>        :-) me too
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     I see you guys are working on a FAT 32 fs
+<Bagder>        yes, we need that to be able to read the disk
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     I guess that would make installation/use easier?
+<Bagder>        the disk is using fat32, we need to read dirs/files from it...
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     ok, I get it
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     would you mind tellingme exactly what other modifications you guys are working on?
+<Bagder>        we replace the entire software
+<Bagder>        we hope to make the player more intuitive and more capable than the built-in software
+<Bagder>        if you've used it, you know it isn't very good
+<Bagder>        its about resuming play in a playlist
+<Bagder>        handling big playlists
+<Bagder>        and all sorts of stuff
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     well, thanks for entertaining my questions
+<Bagder>        personally, I do most of this because of the shear fun
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     same here, only with coding hypertext
+*       adiamas coughs "Read the faq"
+<Bagder>        feel free to let us know if you think you can help out the project in any way you see fit
+*       adiamas nods
+<adiamas>       hey Bagder whats doing?
+<Bagder>        did lots yesterdat, as the CVS-list shows ;-)
+<adiamas>       heheh yeah..
+<adiamas>       I _can't_ believe that i forgot to call the function pointers when i put that in :)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     ...I read the FAQ 3 times
+<adiamas>       heheh k :)
+<adiamas>       can't help; it... 
+<adiamas>       its my pet project :)
+<adiamas>       any suggestions on additions or rewording?
+<Bagder>        adiamas: "why do you write a replacement software?"
+<Bagder>        adiamas: "when do you think there is a version available for my Archos?"
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     well, it doesn't answer too many questions
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     tell people about exactly what's being redone and maybe when people will be able to enjoy your labors on their players
+<adiamas>       What exactly are you trying to achieve with this line of development?
+<adiamas>       should that be reworded?
+<Bagder>        adiamas: could you unmber the questions? it would be easier to direct people to a specific question then
+<Bagder>        hm
+<Bagder>        number
+<adiamas>       hmmm how shoul di answer "when do you think there will be a version available?"
+<adiamas>       sure could...
+<Bagder>        adiamas: well, I think that question deserves to be answered very unspecific
+<Bagder>        we might all get very busy all of a sudden
+<Bagder>        so say something like maybe in a month, maybe in three, maybe in six
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     true
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     to quote Dilbert... "ONe month to complete the project and 5 months to play 'Doom' on my computer."
+<adiamas>       lol
+<Bagder>        in this case, of course, it is Tetris ;-)
+*       Bagder just applied patched mailed to him from Dave Chapman
+<Bagder>        patches
+<Bagder>        grrrr, can't type
+<adiamas>       hmmm ... i need a polite way of saying 'Fuck off you complete moron."
+<adiamas>       Suggestions?
+<Bagder>        heh, in which context?
+<adiamas>       never mind.. i have an answer...
+<Bagder>        you're the american ;-)
+<Bagder>        Mr_B: where are you from?
+-->     calpefrosch (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has joined #Rockbox
+<calpefrosch>   moin
+<Bagder>        morning calpefrosch
+<Bagder>        the win32 simulator might need some attention now ;-)
+*       Bagder whistles innocently
+<calpefrosch>   hmm, let's talk about some details. 
+*       Bagder browses subdirs in his simulator!
+<Bagder>        calpefrosch: what kind of details?
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     ...New Orleans
+<adiamas>       okay.. faq updated.. anyone wanna take a look?
+*       Bagder shows his thumbs up
+<adiamas>       :)
+<adiamas>       im a bit heavy on the sarcasm.. but bugger it... let them deal with it...
+<Bagder>        we need that
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     ...an improvment...and I love sarcasm
+<Bagder>        it makes it more obvious everything isn't so serious
+*       Bagder runs for more coffee
+*       adiamas cheers wildly
+<adiamas>       [TDM]Mr_B your on windows correct?
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     Windows XP home
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     well, I should reall y be in bed, night folks
+<--     [TDM]Mr_B has quit ()
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Bagder>        morning Zagor
+<Zagor> morn
+<Zagor> you sure had a busy sunday :)
+<Bagder>        yeps, did my share of cleaning up ;-)
+<calpefrosch>   sorry, have been to a meeting
+<Bagder>        Zagor: the simulator is growing cooler
+<Zagor> nice!
+<Bagder>        Dave Chapman stepped in and sent me patches too
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> Boo!
+*       Bagder boos Linus back
+<adiamas>       looking at the throughput that this guy dave is doing.. maybe he should be considered for cvs access...
+<Bagder>        yes, I mailed him about it
+<adiamas>       cool
+<calpefrosch>   Badger: I ment which kind of attention ?
+<Bagder>        calpefrosch: ah, it won't build just now since I've added more firmware files to the build
+*       adiamas screams
+*       adiamas slams his head against the wall..
+<Bagder>        keeping both simulators up-to-date is a challange
+<adiamas>       okay.. i screwed up.. so i may as well clue everyone in...
+*       adiamas was working on tic-tac-toe for the archos...
+*       adiamas was 1/2 way there...
+<Linus> adiamas is a hero
+<calpefrosch>   Badger: ok, I'll try to build it this morning. 
+*       adiamas f***ed up...
+<adiamas>       see... before i went to see the girlfriend this weekend i 'cleaned' up[ my sim dir...
+*       adiamas doesn't really remember deleteing the files.. but they are gone
+<adiamas>       so it's gonna be a few days to finish :(
+<Bagder>        :-/
+<Linus> We have a saying:
+<Linus> "do it properly, or do it many times"
+<Linus> :-)
+<adiamas>       oh.. i did it properly...
+<adiamas>       if deletion was our aim...
+<Linus> and now you will do it again
+<adiamas>       lol
+<adiamas>       yup
+<adiamas>       oh.. btw.. was it cool that i went to function pointers on the sim?
+<adiamas>       just seemed to make more sense
+<Bagder>        yeah, its good
+<Linus> I just got the MAS DMA working...
+<Bagder>        *cool*
+*       Zagor feels Linus breathing down his neck again...
+<calpefrosch>   badger: what is that header "unistd.h" ?
+<calpefrosch>   btw, sorry for *always* changing the letters b and g ... 
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Linus> We have a serious problem with the project...
+<adiamas>       whats that?
+<Bagder>        calpefrosch: I don't think that should be included
+<Linus> Apparently, Zagor pretends that he has a life, seriously slowing down the development!!! :-)
+<Bagder>        calpefrosch: as that is a unix-only include file
+<adiamas>       LOL
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Bagder>        hahaha
+*       adiamas pokes Zagor
+<adiamas>       oh.. i had an idea while driving my 2.5 hrs back home..
+<Zagor> I knew you'd see right through me :)
+<adiamas>       i was doing random through one of my playlists...
+<Bagder>        random thoughts are good :-P
+<Zagor> adiamas: you have a 2.5h commute?!?
+<adiamas>       and realized it would be _really_ cool if i could hit a button and have the current song added to a 'favorites' list
+<calpefrosch>   Bagder: It's in the ID3.c. Could you remove it, or do you need it there?
+<Linus> adiamas: great idea
+<adiamas>       Zagor: nah.. only to see my girlfriend.
+<Zagor> ah
+<adiamas>       i figured.. this 'favorite' list could just be a dynamic playlist...
+<Linus> adiamas has a life too?
+<Bagder>        calpefrosch: *gone*
+<adiamas>       because with 1000+ plus songs it _sucks_ to have to manually pick out my favs...
+<Linus> Just delete the other ones. :-)
+<calpefrosch>   Bagder: tnx
+<adiamas>       Linus:  a girlfriend 2 hrs away, a job, ride for my ambulance core ... _And_ i still find time to hang out here and be unproductive and sarcastic...
+<adiamas>       :)
+*       adiamas smiles at linus
+*       Linus smiles
+*       adiamas thinks your just jealous cause i wrote a cheap little screensaver... :)
+*       Linus tries to have a life too...wife and kids!
+<Zagor> Linus: that's a life? ;)
+<adiamas>       congrats...
+<Linus> :-)
+<adiamas>       how long you been married mate?
+<Linus> Almost 2 years
+<Bagder>        2+ here
+<adiamas>       hehe
+<adiamas>       im just starting to get to that point...
+<adiamas>       friggin distance is killing me
+---     Tumm is now known as coyote-
+<adiamas>       umm... any chance of having the DISPLAY value in the sim makefile be a bit more useful?
+<adiamas>       someone who doesn't know the project won't know which is which....
+<adiamas>       CHARCELLS vs BITMAP
+<Bagder>        well
+<Bagder>        I didn't wanna use the actual target-defines
+<adiamas>       how do you mean?
+<Bagder>        we use ARCHOS_PLAYER and ARCHOS_RECORDER for target builds
+<adiamas>       ahh.. i got ya...
+<Bagder>        but they imply more than just different LCDs
+<Bagder>        maybe we can just add two big comments in the Makefile for now, explaining which is which
+<adiamas>       well.. its only the recorder that has BITMAP right?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<adiamas>       well.. instead of HAVE_LCD_CHARCELLS .. what about HAVE_RECORDER_LCD
+<Bagder>        thinking about it...
+<adiamas>       nods
+<Bagder>        ARCHOS_PLAYER and ARCHOS_RECORDER would probably be best
+<Bagder>        then we'll be forced to include "config.h" properly
+<adiamas>       hmm.. well.. id rather stay the way we are then for now...
+<Bagder>        anyway, those defines are documented in firmware/CONFIG
+*       adiamas nods
+<calpefrosch>   Bagder: do we use harness.c or app.c for the sim ?
+<Bagder>        calpefrosch: remove the harness.c completely from the sim
+<Bagder>        it isn't meant to be there
+<Bagder>        app.c is the app main entry
+<calpefrosch>   ok
+*       calpefrosch have to go to a meeting.
+<calpefrosch>   brb
+---     calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|meet
+<adiamas>       could someone explain this to me?
+<adiamas>       $(CC) $(CFLAGS) -c $< -o $@
+<adiamas>       i know cc and cflags
+<adiamas>       -c im good
+<adiamas>       -o im good
+<adiamas>       but on a makefile i forget what $< and $@ are...
+<Bagder>        $< is the file on the right side of the : in the rule-line above
+<adiamas>       okay...
+<Bagder>        and $@ is the file on the left side of the : above
+<adiamas>       ahh.. okay.. thanks
+<Linus> Actually, $< is the file that triggered the rebuild, isn't it?
+<Zagor> no, that could be a .h file
+<Linus> So what is $< when there are two files on the right side?
+<Bagder>        the first one I think
+<Zagor> the first, I think
+<Zagor> :)
+<Linus> OK. And $* is all of them, right?
+<Zagor> ummm 'info make'
+<Zagor> ;)
+<adiamas>       im just trying to find a way to clean up the sim makefile
+<adiamas>       i have to believe there is an easier way to build the app obj files w/o having to do : filename.o: $(DIRPATH)/filename.c
+<adiamas>           $(CC) $(CFLAGS) -c $< -o $@
+<adiamas>       10 times
+<Bagder>        this klez virus sure is annoying
+<adiamas>       heheh whats the prob?
+<Bagder>        it mails
+<adiamas>       got ya
+<Bagder>        I've received >50 mails with klez
+<Zagor> yeah
+<Bagder>        it fakes From: line, and it fakes Subject: and it attaches the virus
+---     calpefrosch|meet is now known as calpefrosch
+<adiamas>       as far as menus go... for sim and target.. should we assume that all menu items will be the same size...
+<adiamas>       and if the user wants to increase the font, they do so for all menus?
+<Zagor> for now, sure
+<Bagder>        adiamas: oh yes, certainly
+<adiamas>       k
+<Bagder>        hm, the cvs page doesn't mention the cvs-commit mailing list
+<Zagor> right
+<Bagder>        is that one mentioned on any page?
+<adiamas>       in emacs.. how do i open a fresh buffer?
+<Zagor> i don't think so, only in mail
+<adiamas>       like the scratch buffer..
+<Zagor> adiamas: C-x b
+<Bagder>        adiams: control-x b
+<adiamas>       thanks
+<adiamas>       not switch.. i know that one...
+<adiamas>       to create a clean unused buffer...
+<Bagder>        enter a name of a non-existing buffer
+<adiamas>       ahhh k
+<Bagder>        *plopp*
+<Linus> Intuitive, right? :-)
+<adiamas>       hehehe
+<adiamas>       sure
+<adiamas>       im looking at app.c
+<adiamas>       wouldn't it make more sense to have #include "tree.h" and #include screensaver inside the #ifdef HAVE_LCD_BITMAP?
+<Bagder>        it depends, the tree.c functionality should probably work on the Player too
+<Bagder>        the screensaver though, could very well be inside that #ifdef
+<adiamas>       k...
+<adiamas>       ill fix that then
+<Bagder>        Zagor: how do I figure out the attributes of a dirent struct? Can I see if its a file or dir there?
+<Zagor> yes, I just have to add the ATTR* macros from fat.h into dir.h
+<Bagder>        ok, then I'll need to make sure the simulator supports them
+<Zagor> yup
+<Zagor> not perfectly POSIX, but I think it's a fair trade-off
+<Bagder>        I agree
+<adiamas>       umm.. what do we call a menu item?
+<adiamas>       is the generic term 'item' okay?
+<adiamas>       more specifically 'menu_item'
+<Zagor> menu_item sounds nice :)
+<adiamas>       k...
+<adiamas>       hehhe okay.. its offical.. we have the first stages of a menu api
+<Zagor> goodie
+<adiamas>       once i commit, im going to ask you to look at the menu.h file and see if the functions make sense w/o comments.
+<Zagor> ok
+<Zagor> the struct name shouldn't use uppercase
+<adiamas>       at all?
+<Zagor> what's the difference btwn put_cursor(0) and put_cursor_menu_top?
+<Zagor> no, only lowercase
+<adiamas>       scrolling menus...
+<adiamas>       idea is that put_cursor puts you at the top of the menu all togeather..
+<adiamas>       put_cursor_menu_top wold be viable menu
+<adiamas>       right now there is no difference
+<Zagor> ok
+<adiamas>       basically.. put_cursor() puts you _anywhere_ 
+<adiamas>       ill clear it all up in comments as i go...
+<Zagor> ok
+<adiamas>       that and ill try for better names...
+<adiamas>       i just get sick when i think of "put_cursor_to_top_of_visable_menu()"
+<adiamas>       :)
+<Zagor> uh, me too...
+<Zagor> I prefer fewer functions with parameter rather than many (void) functions
+<Zagor> within reason, of course
+<adiamas>       so do i...
+<adiamas>       downside right now is there isnt much our menuing is doing...
+<adiamas>       always easier to coalese basic functions togeather...
+<adiamas>       least for me
+<Zagor> yeah, I'll give you some slack for the moment :)
+<adiamas>       oh sure.. make it easy...
+<adiamas>       what im trying to figure out is how to handle sub menus...
+<adiamas>       what i was thinking is that maybe we keep the menu_struct we have..
+<adiamas>       but as we add submenus we just create an array of the structs...
+<Bagder>        adiamas: first, can you think of any submenu we should have?
+<adiamas>       and jsut reference them.. but im not sure..
+<adiamas>       sure...
+<adiamas>       :games
+<Bagder>        right
+<adiamas>       and when we get more ppl playing with the ui, itll get more robust...
+<adiamas>       options menu
+<adiamas>       i ment to ask.. seeing as you'all are working in firmware...
+<adiamas>       i know the idea of a 'boot' loader is not a good idea... but what about the ability for the user to have a menu to choose which version of firmware to boot with next?
+<Bagder>        of course we want that
+<adiamas>       rather then having to copy files too and from the archos to play with firmware
+<Bagder>        exactly
+<Bagder>        you could have X different firmwares
+<adiamas>       nods
+<Linus> I can't recall that anybody said a boot loader was a bad idea...
+*       adiamas assumed....
+<adiamas>       so shoot me :)
+<Linus> Actually, we have talked a lot about that, the project name is called RoLo
+<Linus> for Rockbox Loader
+<adiamas>       sweet...
+<Linus> ...as candy
+<adiamas>       you guys have done a fantastic job getting off metal quick.. have i mentioned that?
+*       Zagor notes it's even in the Activity chart on the web page
+<Linus> Thx
+<adiamas>       umm.. in API
+<adiamas>       we list mp3info as returning FALSE if successful
+<adiamas>       huh?
+<adiamas>       that can't be right.
+<Bagder>        correct
+<Bagder>        that's wrong ;-)
+<adiamas>       k.. ive got it
+<Bagder>        euhhh
+<Bagder>        no
+<Bagder>        it is correct
+<adiamas>       okay.. so it _should_ be FALSE?
+<adiamas>       ummm.. that seems really counterintuitive guys?
+<Bagder>        it works that way now
+<Bagder>        not really
+<Bagder>        because it leaves the opportunity to return different return codes for different failures
+<adiamas>       but TRUE should _never_ be a failure...
+<adiamas>       unless the function is invalid_mp3info()
+<calpefrosch>   I made the win32-sim working. how can I diff so you can work with ?
+<Linus> If you plan to use other return codes that TRUE or FALSE you should use another return type.
+*       adiamas nods
+<Bagder>        yes, but I wouldn't have to change the checks
+<Linus> I don't follow
+<Bagder>        non-zero would mean error
+<adiamas>       i still don't get why FALSE means you _were_ able to fine mp3info
+<Zagor> FALSE is boolean, this is int
+<Zagor> it's 0, not FALSE
+<Linus> Bagder: of course. That is why you should use int
+<Bagder>        nag nag
+<Bagder>        calpefrosch: I
+<adiamas>       correct correct
+<Bagder>        'd prefer a diff -u ...
+<Linus> And the comment above the function says it returns "void" :-)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Linus> That is a rather redundant comment.
+<Bagder>        it *did*
+<calpefrosch>   Bagder: ok, but I'm a windows-user. I only have checkboxes in wincvs ;-)
+<adiamas>       well.. im submitting grammer corrections now.. 
+<adiamas>       argue once it's in
+<Linus> Anyone can see what the function returns
+<calpefrosch>   which should I check ?
+<Bagder>        calpefrosch: ok, a unified diff, you should be able to make one of those I guess
+<adiamas>       okay.. commited
+<adiamas>       is there a way to prevent dependancy checking when you are doing a make clean?
+<Zagor> calpefrosch: I'll add you for cvs commit access. what's your sourceforge ID?
+<calpefrosch>   I have no ID yet
+<Zagor> ok
+<calpefrosch>   I will create it now, ok?
+<Bagder>        run run! ;-)
+<adiamas>       am i correct that to adjust the lcd size i edit lcd-x11?
+<adiamas>       or lcd-win32 respectively?
+<Bagder>        what size?
+<Bagder>        of the window?
+<adiamas>       well. when i compile the sim for recorder.. size is fine..
+<adiamas>       when i compile fore player... it doen'st make sense to keep the ui the same size..
+<Bagder>        true
+<adiamas>       dunno how to fix it.. wantted to see how to do it
+<Bagder>        the size for the x11 sim window is in the screenhack.c file
+<adiamas>       is that default_defaults?
+<Bagder>        yep
+<adiamas>       is the player the same width?
+<adiamas>       just only 2 lines hight?
+<Bagder>        no
+<Bagder>        it's 2 X 11 letters
+<Bagder>        but there should be room for some icons too, I think
+-->     linuxstb (dave@dsl-212-23-31-215.zen.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        I'm not really good on the player lcd
+<Bagder>        hey Dave
+<linuxstb>      Hello everyone.
+<adiamas>       k.. then ill leave it for tomorrow.. i need sleep bad...
+<adiamas>       night all
+<Linus> Hi!
+<adiamas>       welcome dave
+<Bagder>        night adiamas
+*       adiamas waves
+---     You are now known as adi|sleep
+<calpefrosch>   Zagor: my ID is 536571
+<Zagor> I need the username
+<calpefrosch>   calpefrosch
+<calpefrosch>   what else ;-)
+<Zagor> :)
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<Zagor> now you're added. and Dave, you've been added too.
+<linuxstb>      Thanks.  I plan to work on the directory browsing a little more today - mainly to implement scrolling.
+<Bagder>        goodie
+<Zagor> nice
+<Bagder>        it _is_ a bit limited right now, indeed ;-)
+<calpefrosch>   tnx
+<linuxstb>      Has anyone thought about an API for actually playing audio files?
+<Bagder>        linuxstb: we'll change the is_dir() stuff to instead use the dirent struct as soon as we know how Zagor will feature the atrributes
+<linuxstb>      Agreed about is_dir() - that was just a quick hack by me.
+<Bagder>        oh sure, it works fine for now
+<Zagor> linuxstb: not yet. it'll be something simple, since the playing is handled by DMA and a "feed" thread
+<linuxstb>      I have a little experience of using libmad, so would like to implement mp3 playing in the simulator.
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Zagor> sure
+<calpefrosch>   Zagor: can you help me with the setup of cvs?
+<Zagor> Linus: you should add the timer interrupt code to the main firmware dir. we need to use sleep()
+<Zagor> calpefrosch: not for wincvs, I'm afraid. follow the wincvs link on the cvs info page.
+<calpefrosch>   ok
+<Linus> It's in kernel.c
+<Zagor> Linus: yes, but it's not started
+<Linus> kernel_init()
+<Zagor> ok, good
+<Linus> You will have to lower the interrupt mask with set_irq_level(0) after kernel_init()
+<Linus> And I use system.c for the interrupt vectors
+<Zagor> so the current system.c is good?
+<Linus> Works for me
+<Zagor> ok
+<Linus> Actually, it's quite handy with the weak symbols when developing
+<Zagor> blaeh
+<Zagor> :)
+Linus linuxstb <Linus>  That way I don't need my own system.c in every test directory
+---     Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|pizza
+<Bagder>        wow pizza
+*       Bagder starts to get hungry too
+<linuxstb>      Re MP3 api: I think we need a "play queue" in memory of the filenames of the next 3 or 4 tracks to play.  The MP3 thread "just" plays files from this queue, and the UI thread modifies it.
+<Bagder>        or perhaps the mp3-playing thread have direct-access to the playlist/queue we work on
+<linuxstb>      What is the difference?
+<Bagder>        I'm just thinking what happens when you select "back"
+<Bagder>        if the mp3-thread can peek in the list, it just picks the previos tune and plays it
+<Bagder>        if we'd feed the thread with a special queue to play, we'd need to take care of special situations 
+<linuxstb>      I would like a simple MP3 thread that is independent of the way songs are selected.
+<Bagder>        off for lunch
+---     Bagder is now known as Bagder|eats
+<linuxstb>      I was thinking what information the MP3 thread needed, and the minimum is just the next n tracks - enough to keep the play buffer full.
+<PsycoXul>      play buffer full?
+<PsycoXul>      how much ram do the recorders have? more than 2MB?
+<calpefrosch>   Bagder: Do you know why I always get this message: cvs [server aborted]: "commit" requires write access to the repository
+<calpefrosch>   if I want to commit?
+<Linus|pizza>   The cvs server has a list of people with commit access, which I assume you are not yet part of.
+---     Linus|pizza is now known as Linus
+<calpefrosch>   Zagor wanted to put me on the list
+<Linus> Zagor tells me that you have checked out anonymously. You have to check out everything -ext
+<Linus> but backup the entire tree first. :-)
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs03v-1-73.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<calpefrosch>   ahhh, tnx
+<Linus> Yo alan!
+<alkorr>        yo Linus, not eating ?
+<Linus> full of pizza right now
+<alkorr>        lol
+<alkorr>        well it's time i have all commited
+<--     Zagor|lunch (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<alkorr>        see you later
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     alkorr has quit (Client Quit)
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<--     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Bagder|eats is now known as Bagder
+<calpefrosch>   Bagder: I'm just commiting the win32-sim, I hope it is everything ok
+<Bagder>        cool
+<Linus> calpefrosch: Why both logf() and debugf()
+<calpefrosch>   logf was missing. I don't know where it should be...
+<calpefrosch>   where is it in X11 ?
+<Bagder>        I think it should use debugf() instead
+<Linus> My question was, why do we need two functions for the same thing?
+<Bagder>        or
+<Bagder>        do they?
+<Bagder>        it isn't really clear to me what debugf() does in the simulator
+<Linus> The simulator doesn't have a console?
+<Bagder>        I think so
+<Bagder>        but what's mem2hex and putpacket ?
+<calpefrosch>   hmmm, they use logf e.g. in play.c and the debugf in playlist.c
+<Linus> Strange.
+<calpefrosch>   if I start the simulator in VC++ I get a console output...
+<Bagder>        and the simulator don't set DEBUG either, not now at least
+<Linus> Bagder: those functions are for GDB communication
+<Bagder>        so what does debugf() do when used in the simulator?
+<Linus> Whatever you, the simulator writer, wants it to. Preferably write to a console.
+<Bagder>        sure, but it doesn't do that now, does it?
+<calpefrosch>   I'm sorry, but unfortunately I have to do "real" work now. :-(
+<calpefrosch>   see you later
+<Bagder>        oh
+<Linus> Bagder: I guess not.
+<Bagder>        there are two implementatins
+*       calpefrosch is going to work
+<Bagder>        see ya calpefrosch
+<Linus> CU!
+---     calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|work
+<Bagder>        Linus: do you use the DEBUG define for anything when you build your stuff?
+<Linus> No, not that I can remember.
+<Bagder>        ok
+<Linus> I think that debug.c could contain code for all platforms.
+<Bagder>        I think so too
+<Bagder>        I'll make it 
+<Linus> Or is it kludgy?
+<Bagder>        debug() it is
+<Bagder>        debugf() even
+<Linus> Greato!
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+*       Bagder got no post-lunch coffe, the machine is broken. aaaaaah!
+*       Zagor is fetching his third after-lunch coffee :)
+*       Bagder hears that someone has fixed the machine and ruuuuuuns
+<Bagder>        turned out to be a rumour, had to walk down some stairs to get a cup
+<calpefrosch|work>      I thought you (zagor and Bagder) are working in the same company...
+<Bagder>        we're consultants, so we're hired to different customers
+<Linus> In fact, I and Zagor are at the same customer right now.
+<calpefrosch|work>      aha, I see. We are also working together with some consultants
+<Bagder>        so we don't actually meet in person that often
+<Bagder>        Zagor: thanks for the atributes, I'll try to make the simulator use them tonight or so
+<Zagor> nice
+<calpefrosch|work>      I make a scrolling feature for the simulator
+<calpefrosch|work>      Should I check in ?
+<Bagder>        scrolling feature?
+<calpefrosch|work>      scrolling thru the dir...
+<Linus> And I'll just go and kill myself. I HATE THAT F***ING MAS DEMAND PIN!
+<calpefrosch|work>      Linus: what's the problem ? you can tell me, I listen to you :-)
+<Linus> The problem is that the Demand pin on the MAS is going up and down like mad in the beginning of a song.
+<Linus> And the Player only generates an interrupt when the signal goes low
+<Linus> so I have to poll it to find out when it goes high
+<Linus> very often...
+<calpefrosch|work>      too often...
+<Linus> indeed
+<calpefrosch|work>      -o
+<calpefrosch|work>      where is the input-pin at the SH1 ?
+<Linus> The Archos firmware initialization bears some evidence of them using a timer to start the DMA. I may have to disassemble it to see what it does.
+<Linus> It's on IRQ6
+<Bagder>        gotta go, might pop by later
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<Linus> CU!
+<calpefrosch|work>      I would like to commit tree.c with the changed scrolling. Can anybody test it with X11 ?
+<linuxstb>      Yes - I can check tree.c with X11.  mailto dave@dchapman.com
+-->     wavey (~wavey@host-54.valtech.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> i'm off. see you!
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<wavey> linus: congrats with the mas :)
+<Linus> Thanks
+<Linus> But it is really hard to write a driver for it that doesn't hog the CPU...
+---     coyote- is now known as Tumm
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     edx (~edx@pD9EAB563.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     wavey has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<linuxstb>      Is there a maximum number of files/subdirs in a directory for FAT32?  Is the root directory different?
+<calpefrosch|work>      linuxstb: It's working perfectly...
+<calpefrosch|work>      please commit the changes. Maybe it would be too slow at long dirs, because we search everytime from the beginning. 
+<linuxstb>      We need to read the whole directory into memory for two reasons - caching and sorting
+<linuxstb>      OK - I'll commit the new scrolling tree.c
+<calpefrosch|work>      tnx
+---     calpefrosch|work is now known as calpefrosch|away
+<linuxstb>      new tree.c committed
+<--     calpefrosch|away (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has left #Rockbox
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     calpefrosch (calpefrosc@p5082C6D8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> yo
+<calpefrosch>   yo, brb
+---     calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|brb
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|away
+---     lou_soyur is now known as adi|work
+<--     edx has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<--     calpefrosch|brb has quit ()
+<--     linuxstb has quit ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.0")
+---     Linus|away is now known as Linus
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     calpefrosch|away (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has joined #rockbox
+<calpefrosch|away>      morning bagder
+---     calpefrosch|away is now known as calpefrosch
+<calpefrosch>   morning all 
+<Bagder>        morning
+---     calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|away
+---     ChanServ gives channel operator status to Bagder
+---     You are now known as adiamas
+<Bagder>        hi adiamas
+---     ChanServ gives channel operator status to adiamas
+<adiamas>       hey Bagder
+<adiamas>       guess what?
+<Bagder>        tic tac toe rocks? ;-)
+<adiamas>       hehe not yet
+<adiamas>       but...
+---     adiamas removes channel operator status from Bagder
+<adiamas>       hehehehe
+---     adiamas gives channel operator status to Bagder
+<adiamas>       just felt like being silly
+<Bagder>        :-)
+*       Bagder walks away to check if the coffee machine works today
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        morning Linus
+<Linus> mooning
+<Linus> :-)
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Zagor> hey all
+<Linus> The feeding of the MAS with DMA works splendidly!
+<Bagder>        you rock Linus
+<Linus> I do!
+<Linus> :-)
+<Linus> But I think those Archos guys save a penny too much when designing the hardware
+<Linus> saved
+<Bagder>        any ata/fat32 mp3-reading in sight?
+<Linus> Zagor "I Have A Life" Stenberg is lazy
+<Linus> I suggest we replace him
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Bagder>        maybe we can just yell at him a lot until he improves?
+*       Linus screams at Zagor!
+<adiamas>       Linus why do you say that about the archos guys>
+<PsycoXul>      just look at the player's LCD
+<PsycoXul>      i mean come on i saw wristwatches 5 years ago far cheaper with more flexible displays :p
+*       Bagder added common/strtok.c
+<Linus> adiamas: I say that because they haven't connected the inverted demand pin to an IRQ
+<Linus> so I have to poll the damn thing ever millisecond
+<Linus> every
+<adiamas>       okay.. im very much not a hardware guy, so what is an 'inverted demand' pin?
+-->     wavey (~wavey@host-54.valtech.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        wavey the man!
+<wavey> howdy :)
+*       wavey been gamecubing all weekend ;)
+<Bagder>        hehehe
+<Bagder>        I hope you don't mind me messing in your code in the mean time ;-)
+<wavey> no problem :)
+<adiamas>       okay, ill ask..
+<wavey> bbl
+<adiamas>       why did we have to rewrite strtok?
+*       wavey waves
+<adiamas>       i know there is a recursive one...
+<Bagder>        wavey: I made the randomiser a lot faster, I changed the read-indices function and I made your test program build and run on my linux
+<Bagder>        adiamas: because strtok() stores data in a static area
+<adiamas>       Bagder i know..
+<adiamas>       but there is a strtok_r already writen
+<Bagder>        in newlib?
+<adiamas>       its part of the standard library
+<adiamas>       in new lib.. that i don't know :)
+<Bagder>        strtok_r() is not standard unfortunately
+<Bagder>        that's why I have that code written in the first place ;-)
+<adiamas>       thats why i asked :)
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<Zagor> newlib's strtok_r uses a thread context
+<Zagor> so bagder's is better
+<Zagor> Bagder: why are you including both stddef.h and string.h in strtok?
+<Bagder>        good q, remove the stddef.h
+<Bagder>        it was just ripped out from my curl sources
+<--     wavey has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<Linus> I think the thread context is a good thing. Why is it bad?
+<Zagor> it's unnecessary
+<Bagder>        how does it manage "thread context" ?
+<Linus> The context switcher (thread.c) assigns a new "current" pointer when it switches context
+<Linus> All newlib functions with static data stores data in the struct pointed by "current" (or whatever it is called
+<Bagder>        ok, thanks
+<Zagor> ...which means: a) we have to init newlib for each thread and b) we have to swap newlib context
+<Bagder>        doesn't it store errno there too?
+<Linus> Yes it does
+<Linus> Zagor: yes
+<Bagder>        so we'd need to watch out for that
+<Linus> Indeed
+<Zagor> errno is not as much a problem, since we're unlikely to call a newlib function, yield, and then look at errno
+<Linus> The called function itself may yield, however
+<Bagder>        possibly, I was more thinking about that it stores errno relative the current and thus it needs to be somewhat correct
+<Zagor> Linus: no
+<Zagor> no newlib functions call yield()
+<Linus> True
+<adiamas>       umm... the chars shown in the char maps on the web site... how can i use those?
+<Zagor> this falls into the "neat but not immediately neccessary" category
+<Bagder>        adiamas: the player chars?
+<adiamas>       yeah.
+<Zagor> just display them
+<adiamas>       ummmm how?
+<Zagor> lcd_puts() ?
+<Bagder>        we need to convert them to our iternal format
+<Bagder>        lcd_puts() is still using Gary's fonts
+<adiamas>       well, not just chars
+<Bagder>        even for player simul
+<adiamas>       i feel like playing with sliders
+<Zagor> ah, you are talking about the simulators
+<adiamas>       for volume control...
+<Bagder>        ...we should add two mini icons for tracks and dirs for the dir browser on the recorder
+<adiamas>       huh?
+<Bagder>        browse a dir with your recorder
+<Bagder>        whatch the little icons to the left of each row
+<adiamas>       got ya...
+<adiamas>       that's what im trying to figure out.. how to get stuff like that form the map
+<Bagder>        currently, we'll have to add the hex-data manually for new widgets ;-)
+<adiamas>       ack...
+<adiamas>       the chartables.c file in firmware.. what does that cover again?
+<Bagder>        fonts
+<Bagder>        the three different fonts
+<adiamas>       only fonts?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        Gary's code package had a widget.c file with some additional ones
+<adiamas>       yeah.. going to look at that now
+<Bagder>        btw, including the simulators, we now have 14341 lines of source code in the CVS ;-)
+<adiamas>       hehe cool
+<adiamas>       one more time.. what was the command to remove extra cr-lf?
+<Bagder>        tr -d '\015' < infile > outfile
+<adiamas>       ty
+<adiamas>       does lcd_bitmap work?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        lcd_puts() uses it extensively
+<adiamas>       k
+<Zagor> wasn't there a size limit?
+<Bagder>        ah yes
+<Bagder>        it only handles 16 pixels height, I believe
+<adiamas>       holy christ.. finally got this working and the thing is huge :)
+-->     wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+---     Bagder is now known as Bagder|eats
+<--     Bagder|eats has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+*       Bagder fixes the simulated readdir() to return a dirent struct as the common/dir.h defines
+<Linus> Rockers
+<Linus> But maybe it should be the other way around?
+<Bagder>        ?
+<Bagder>        you mean that the target readdir() should return a struct as the unixes use?
+<Linus> Exactly
+<Bagder>        first off, the dirent struct seems to be different on various systems, but it also contains lots of crap we will never need/use
+<Linus> OK. Just a thought
+<Bagder>        yes, would've made simulation easier ;-)
+<Linus> hehe. I think the target code should be the easy one...
+<Bagder>        now, shall I make the code use this new stuff and thus break the win32 simulator? B-]
+<Linus> Of course. :-)
+<Linus> We donn't want no stinkin' windows!
+<Bagder>        since they don't even have a native readdir(), this change is possibly even easier for them
+<Linus> Probably.
+<Bagder>        gah, it broke on Solaris
+<Bagder>        dirent is a pretty silly struct
+<Bagder>        only one field is POSIX
+<Zagor> yes
+<Zagor> i want to avoid stat()
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        I'll have the simulator use stat ;-)
+<Zagor> yes
+<Bagder>        could've even make both Linux and Solaris use the same dirent code so I'll write my own instead
+<Bagder>        couldn't
+*       Bagder gets all confused in his head with this
+<Zagor> get more coffee :)
+<Bagder>        good idea!
+*       Bagder bangs his head and runs for coffee
+<Bagder>        ah, much better
+<Bagder>        found problem
+<Bagder>        phew
+<Bagder>        seems to work now on both Linux and Solaris
+<Zagor> nicers
+<Bagder>        made the tree.c code use it and it worked too
+-->     jb1081 (~jb1081@lime.ircam.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> Hi jb!
+<jb1081>        Hi
+<jb1081>        Do you know if there's some hardware differences between 6000 & 5000 (got a 5000 few weeks ago)
+<jb1081>        ?
+<Bagder>        a 5000!
+<Zagor> seems to be only a smaller disk
+<Bagder>        does that have 5GB disk`?
+<jb1081>        Bagder: yep
+<Bagder>        odd
+<Zagor> jb1081: where did you buy it?
+<Bagder>        I mean, that they have two products that similar
+<jb1081>        Zagor: Europe (France)
+<Zagor> ok. it's a bit odd that they don't mention it on their web page. i've heard people on the us get them too
+<jb1081>        firmware release 5.08, not listed in archos website (last time I checked at least)
+<jb1081>        but the led & scroll mod works
+<Zagor> yes I think it's the exact same hardware but a cheaper disk
+<Zagor> how much price difference was it btwn the 5000 and 6000, do you know?
+<jb1081>        6000 discontinued here, I think
+<jb1081>        5000: 180 euro
+<Bagder>        180 euro is quite a good price imho
+<Zagor> yes
+<jb1081>        found in general distribution (food...) supermarket
+<Zagor> !
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        one cheese, two packets of milk and one archos please ;-)
+<jb1081>        :)
+<jb1081>        oh, does the 6000 (5000 is the same, I presume) have the remote control pin in the headphone jack?
+<Zagor> yes
+<jb1081>        cool. Do you plan to use it?
+<Zagor> sure, we'll use it just like today; for remote control
+<Zagor> we also use it as a serial port for debugging
+<jb1081>        ok, I was thinking you use serial port by hardware mod to line in jack
+<Zagor> yes, that's because the headphone jack only has the "receive" pin
+<jb1081>        sure
+<Zagor> we need both receive and transmit for debugging
+<Zagor> but it's the same serial port
+<jb1081>        ok
+<jb1081>        it's 9600? TTL?
+<Zagor> yes
+<jb1081>        just thinking about using an old pc keyboard controller to build a remote
+<jb1081>        but it need a clock, no?
+<Zagor> yeah, we've been thinking that too. adding a keyboard would be cool! :)
+<Zagor> it's asynchronous rs232 so it doesn't need a clock pin
+<jb1081>        yep, but a pc keyboard is synchronous, if I remember correctly
+<Zagor> oh, ok
+<jb1081>        "The frequency of the clock signal typically ranges from 20 to 30 Khz".. :(
+<jb1081>        ok, not with a broken kbd.. too bad
+<Linus> The serial port can use an external clock as well.
+<Linus> synchronous
+<Zagor> yes but then we need to modify the hardware
+<jb1081>        yes, but we have to open the box..
+<jb1081>        a broken serial mouse perhaps?
+<Linus> Yup. Otherwise you have to build a separate kbd->rs232 converter
+<Linus> I guess you can get one off-the-shelf actually
+<jb1081>        did you see this somewhere (at a resonable price?)
+<Linus> i can't remember seeing any in recent years, no :-)
+<PsycoXul>      kbd->rs232?
+<PsycoXul>      you mean a ps2->serial adapter?
+<jb1081>        ok.. :( btw what headphone do you use? somebody tried a in-ear phone?
+<jb1081>        PsycoXul: I understood a complete remote, but I doubt now.. 
+<Zagor> yes, I use the Sony EX70. they are *GREAT*
+<Bagder>        oh no, don't get him started on those again ;*)
+<jb1081>        Zagor: ok, I was not sure between ex70 et Koss The Plug, it difficult to ear it before buying here
+<jb1081>        it's
+<jb1081>        Bagder: oups, I should'nt?
+<Zagor> Bagder: hehe
+<Linus> PsycoXul: Yes, a PS/2 to RS232 adapter
+<jb1081>        Zagor: the phone amp has no problem to drive the EX70 properly?
+<Zagor> jb1081: no, quite the opposite...
+<PsycoXul>      Linus: i've got a couple of those laying around i think ... heh
+<PsycoXul>      they're still out there places i'm pretty sure
+<Linus> Do you know where to biy one?
+<Linus> buy
+<PsycoXul>      the ones i've got came with mice/keyboards a couple years ago i think
+<Linus> Oh
+<PsycoXul>      look on ebay, computer stores, google heh
+<jb1081>        found one but a little too big.. :) http://www.iptel-now.de/HOWTO/PS2SER/ps2ser.html
+---     calpefrosch|away is now known as calpefrosch
+<calpefrosch>   hi, just read the lines of today...
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        I just posted to the list too about it
+<calpefrosch>   and I saw some stuff like "stinkin windows" ;-)
+*       Bagder points at Linus and looks innocent
+<calpefrosch>   so, I think I#ll have to fix the win32 sim ?
+<Bagder>        yeps
+<Bagder>        should be pretty easily done
+<calpefrosch>   yes, but I have not much time the next days. 
+*       calpefrosch looks out in the sun
+*       Zagor spots another have-a-lifer :)
+<calpefrosch>   hehe
+<Bagder>        we got a mail from another volountary win32 hacker just yesterday... :-)
+<calpefrosch>   who?
+<Bagder>        eh, "Christian" ;-)
+<Bagder>        Zagor: you replied to him yet?
+<Zagor> not yet
+<calpefrosch>   cool. maybe I'll look at the code tomorrow. what do you think about the "scrolling" ? Is it usefull?
+<Bagder>        we need scrolling
+<Bagder>        I haven't tried it yet though ;-)
+<calpefrosch>   isn't there a scrolling bar at the archos firmware? 
+<Bagder>        yes there is
+<Bagder>        on the left side
+<calpefrosch>   mhhh, so we have to scan the dir first to see how much is in there
+<Bagder>        I bet people will want one of those
+<Bagder>        I'm afraid we'd need to do that, yes
+<calpefrosch>   ok, we have a works meeting now. cu
+<Bagder>        see ya
+<Linus> cu!
+<--     calpefrosch has quit ("bin bals zurück")
+<Bagder>        bin bals? ;-)
+*       Bagder is gonna pretend he has a life now!
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     chris1 (~flanz@62.132.155.14) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> hi chris!
+<chris1>        Björn by sourcfor. name is "flanz"
+<Zagor> ok
+-->     elinenbe (~chatzilla@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<elinenbe>      hello there.
+<Zagor> chris1: you're addded
+<chris1>        the ata-sim code will only work on Images on disk, I want to add support to read realtime the Sectors from the Archos HD in the UISimulator
+<Zagor> hi elinenbe
+<Zagor> chris1: we already do that.
+<Zagor> look at ata-sim.c in test/ata
+<--     elinenbe has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     elinenbe (~chatzilla@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> chris1: but it's not really useful for the simulator, since it will use high-level APIs for all disk operations
+<chris1>        this line "file=fopen("disk.img","r+");" say me , the code work on a pre create disk image.
+<Zagor> yes
+<Zagor> I copy data from a real FAT32 disk into a image file and then use it for testing
+<chris1>        ok your a right. With the image your need not to connect the RockBox to the USB port while the debuging session :)
+<elinenbe>      how is the progress coming?
+<Zagor> the MAS DMA code is coming along, although it will not be as pretty as we hoped
+<Zagor> the ATA code is bugging, and I'm trying to figure out why
+<Zagor> and right now I'm writing open/close/read for basic file access
+<elinenbe>      blah pretty... shmitty... who needs pretty code?
+<Zagor> well it's not just the code, more the design. we'll need to poll a pin every millisecond. we hoped to be able to get an interrupt for that instead
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> but it's not a major problem, just a nuicance
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Zagor> bleh, my brain hurts. read() gets too complex.
+<Bagder>        drink coffee! ;-)
+*       Bagder returns an advice ;-)
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Bagder>        I'll go and make food now, see ya
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor_>        strange happenings...
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<chris1>        ok here in Berlin/EU  is al lite release party inhouse.I have to go. 
+<--     chris1 has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+<Zagor> i'm off. see you later.
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     calpefrosch|away (calpefrosc@p5082C815.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #rockbox
+<elinenbe>      hello
+<--     wavey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+-->     wavey (~wavey@host-54.valtech.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+---     ChanServ removes channel operator status from adiamas
+<--     Zagor has quit ("bye")
+<--     wavey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+-->     wavey (~wavey@host-54.valtech.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<--     elinenbe has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.6 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0+/20020507]")
+<--     calpefrosch|away has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<--     wavey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        evening
+<adi|work>      afternoon :)
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<Linus> moo
+*       Bagder scrolls in the directory browser... wooo ;-)
+-->     quiquee (~quique@217.8.197.89) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        hey
+<quiquee>       hello everyone
+<Bagder>        its a silent period in here right now
+---     quiquee is now known as wannabeuihacker
+*       Bagder giggles
+<wannabeuihacker>       I have seen that the menu stuff assumes complete separation of player and recorder
+<Bagder>        yes, but I did that mainly to get a player version that compiled and built
+<Bagder>        for the simulator that is
+<wannabeuihacker>       I added the menu functions and got a menu system for the player
+<Bagder>        cool
+<wannabeuihacker>       mostly copy and paste
+<wannabeuihacker>       I guess it is the best solution for now
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        we'll see if we can merge stuff later on or if we'll keep them apart
+<wannabeuihacker>       but the button right of the player is not working, any clue why ?
+<wannabeuihacker>       I mean , when using the simulator
+<Bagder>        the x11 one?
+<wannabeuihacker>       yep
+<Bagder>        weird, it should work
+<Bagder>        when you get your code in, I can have a look
+<wannabeuihacker>       I am trying to find out , how do I flush printf output ?
+<Bagder>        fflush()
+<wannabeuihacker>       ok I am doing something wrong then. 
+<wannabeuihacker>       right button works
+<wannabeuihacker>       my code doesn't
+<Bagder>        heh
+<wannabeuihacker>       fflush cores :? anyway
+<wannabeuihacker>       I am trying to get used again to emacs and c
+<Bagder>        fflush(stdout); it should be
+<wannabeuihacker>       hmm , thanks.
+<Bagder>        or whatever stream you wanna flushs
+<wannabeuihacker>       I didnt use it for 6 years now
+<Bagder>        this is a perfect way to get back in shape ;-)
+<wannabeuihacker>       do you use emacs ? would you happen to know how was to run make withing emacs without a need to open a shell buffer ?
+<adi|work>      yeah...
+<Bagder>        M-x compile
+<wannabeuihacker>       shit , I thought it couldnt be that easy
+<adi|work>      meta-s is a common bind for it...
+<Bagder>        M-x global-set-key ;-)
+<wannabeuihacker>       ok , it insists in running make from the ./uisimulator
+<wannabeuihacker>       it would be a good idea to add a Makefile there
+<Bagder>        right, it runs from the dir of the buffer you start it from
+<wannabeuihacker>       I will have to read again the gdb info 
+-wannabeuihacker/#rockbox-      panics
+*       Bagder tries to paint a little icon for the files in the dir browser
+<Bagder>        unfortunately, gimp doesn't output our format natively ;-)
+<wannabeuihacker>       ok, it is working
+<wannabeuihacker>       I plan to create a menu structure that is read in the future from an external file
+<wannabeuihacker>       so people can customize it to whatever they want
+<wannabeuihacker>       just an idea to start playing with it
+<wannabeuihacker>       no plans to add an xml parser in the firmware, right ? ;)
+<Bagder>        I don't think that'll be necessary, but we'll see
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<wannabeuihacker>       I am having a lot of fun with this, an excuse to go back to the roots. Thank you guys
+<Bagder>        I think I speak for most of us when I say that we enjoy this a lot too
+<wannabeuihacker>       it is contagious .
+<wannabeuihacker>       going to have a nap now. cu soon
+<Bagder>        see ya
+<Linus> The ATA code sure is full of bugs...I'm killing them by the dozen...:-)
+*       Bagder hands Linus the fly squasher
+<Linus> How can you do sleep(HZ/500) when HZ is only 100???? :-O
+<Bagder>        haha
+<Bagder>        short sleep ;-)
+<Linus> And it's full of return -1 for error
+<Linus> when the code checks for 0
+<adi|work>      heheheh
+<Linus> Well, it's starting to work now. I've read the boot sector.
+<Bagder>        on target?
+<Linus> Yup
+<Bagder>        rock
+<Linus> I wish Zagor was on the channel.
+<Bagder>        hm, I think I have a little perl script now that can "fix" an xbm as saved by gimp, to become "rockbox" formatted
+<Linus> bango!
+<Bagder>        heh
+<Bagder>        works
+<Bagder>        now, what does a symbol for a directory look like? ;-)
+<Linus> Go figure
+<Linus> disk_init() finds the correct root partition now.
+<Linus> but readdir() fails miserably...
+*       Bagder commtted his little icons
+<Linus> linus = sleep(until(6am));
+<Linus> bye
+<Bagder>        night
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     jb1081 has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
+*       adiamas pokes you all in the forehead
+<miah>  ouch
+<adiamas>       wuss
+<miah>  yea
+<miah>  im a wuss
+<adiamas>       has anyone figured out why the remote does not work with the recorder?
+-->     calpefrosch (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has joined #Rockbox
+<calpefrosch>   morning
+<adiamas>       evening :)
+<calpefrosch>   oh
+<calpefrosch>   had a nice day ? ;-)
+<adiamas>       heheheh quiet so far...
+<adiamas>       but im on call till 0700... so ill tell you tomorrow :)
+<calpefrosch>   it's tuesday on your side, right ?
+*       calpefrosch goes for breakfast
+---     calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|eats
+<adiamas>       yeah... its actually wends now.
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        hey ho
+<--     wannabeuihacker has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+-->     wannabeuihacker (~quique@217.8.197.187) has joined #rockbox
+<--     PsycoXul has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     PsycoXul (psyco@adsl-63-205-40-140.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+<calpefrosch|eats>      hey Bagder
+---     calpefrosch|eats is now known as calpefrosch
+<Bagder>        mornning calpe
+<calpefrosch>   The sim is running, where has it changed ?
+<calpefrosch>   ahh, I have to fill the attribute
+<Bagder>        exactly
+<Bagder>        and size too preferably
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        howdy Zagor_
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Zagor> i'm puzzled by linus' ata changes. they don't work for me
+<Bagder>        odd
+<Bagder>        he said he had a few problems
+<Bagder>        but he could read a few things on target
+<Zagor> i guess he'll arrive soon
+<Bagder>        yeah, he got to bed early :-P
+<Bagder>        surely before 1 am...
+<Zagor> normally, I'd boo him too :)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        I kinda like being the one who says good night when he leaves and good morning when he arrives back again ;-)
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Bagder>        btw, we probably will end up needing a malloc() sooner or later, don't we?
+<Zagor> yes
+<Bagder>        I thought I'd have a go at that
+<Zagor> we get a malloc with newlib, if only we supply sbrk(). but I like your malloc, so go ahead :)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        uh
+<Bagder>        wannabeuihacker has a little menu app written for the player now
+<Bagder>        he said yesterday
+<Zagor> ah, cool
+<Bagder>        calpefrosch: any plans on making the win32 simulator work as a Player?
+*       Bagder runs for more coffee
+<calpefrosch>   ok, sim is fixed.
+<Bagder>        ain't my icons beautiful? ;-)
+<calpefrosch>   I love it
+<calpefrosch>   Bagder: yeah, I can try to made a player. But, as you know, I'm not good in VC++
+<calpefrosch>   It would last a bit
+<Bagder>        well, maybe some of the other guys could help out on that part too
+<calpefrosch>   yes. Another question...
+<calpefrosch>   I get an error in id3.c that header is not initialized
+<Bagder>        which line?
+<calpefrosch>   351
+<Bagder>        that's a good warning
+<Bagder>        it should be set to 0
+<calpefrosch>   do you commit in cvs ?
+<Bagder>        I'll do it, I fixed another thing too
+<adiamas>       Bagder what is is the menu app that wannabeuihacker worked on .. do you know?
+<Bagder>        it's written specificly for the player, that's about all I know
+<Bagder>        the one we have now is recorder-specific
+<adiamas>       nod
+<adiamas>       btw.. bagder.. perhaps its time to start getting togeather an icons.h file?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<adiamas>       where did you put your icons?
+<Bagder>        both a icons.c and an icons.h
+<Bagder>        it's in the tree.c file
+<Bagder>        they're
+<adiamas>       im adding icons.h right now.
+<Bagder>        feel free to give my icons better names
+<adiamas>       should we rename "fileimage" to  "fileicon" ?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<adiamas>       those are 6x8 right?
+*       Bagder nods
+<adiamas>       will the player use icons?
+<Bagder>        it a limited extent
+<Bagder>        in a
+<adiamas>       okay...
+<adiamas>       just wondering if i was going to #defin around it
+<Bagder>        but hardly the same ones
+<adiamas>       nods
+<adiamas>       anyone have an issue with the function name "get_6x8_bitmap_icon"
+<adiamas>       or would you rather refernce the array directly?
+<Bagder>        I prefer referencing the array directly
+<Bagder>        no reduce all overhead
+<Bagder>        to reduce
+<adiamas>       that case.. any prob is all 6x8 icons are in an array with the subscripts as enums?
+<Bagder>        Dave posted a good idea
+<adiamas>       haveing X # of icons is annoying...
+<adiamas>       havn'et seen it yet
+<adiamas>       which part of the idea did you like?
+<Bagder>        storing short names in memory
+<adiamas>       well.. i don't know if i agree with his "just 16 chars"
+<adiamas>       and the short name... dunno if i like that either.
+<Bagder>        why not?
+<adiamas>       i store my mp3s as "artist - song name.mp3"
+<Bagder>        it's a memory internal thing
+<adiamas>       so, stuff like "Les miserable - Curtan call" or whatever.. it doesn't help me on the dir listing
+<Bagder>        right, but we haven't solved that issue yet
+<adiamas>       right...
+<adiamas>       i guess i just don't get what his suggestion is attempting to solve
+<Bagder>        I'd prefer having a way to strip off the current directory's name from the local files or something
+<Bagder>        you need to check the tree.c source to see what is aiming at ;-)
+<Bagder>        what he is
+<Bagder>        it currently stores the full names in memory
+<Bagder>        and displays the 16 first letters
+<adiamas>       i agree that we strip the dir structure..t hat just makes sense...
+<adiamas>       but limiting the filename that cane be displayed.. dunno if i agree with that.
+<Bagder>        thus, the displaying and the storing in memory are two parts
+<adiamas>       If so, the buffer in tree.c just needs to 
+<adiamas>       store the short name (for accessing the file) and the first 16 characters of 
+<adiamas>       the full name (for display on the screen).
+<adiamas>       16 chars is _not_ enough space for display
+<adiamas>       thats what im getting at
+<Bagder>        I get it
+<Bagder>        but the full name shouldn't be needed either in all cases
+-->     wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<adiamas>       anything internal.. hell we index however we want..
+<adiamas>       then when do you get it?
+<adiamas>       if not when you do a dir listing?
+<Bagder>        the full name stored for diplaying doesn't need to be the full file name
+<Bagder>        it could be modified to look better
+<adiamas>       define "look better"
+<Bagder>        stripping off  redundant parts for example
+<adiamas>       but "Beat on the brat.mp3"
+<adiamas>       is good..
+<adiamas>       that i agree..
+<Bagder>        like I have "artist/artist - tune 1.mp3"
+<adiamas>       but if you stop me from displaying my file "Les Miserables - Javier at the gates of the city.mp3", ill slap you silly
+<adiamas>       :)
+<Bagder>        then showing the dir in 'artisy' could cut off 'artist -' for me
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        well
+<Bagder>        you still can't show that full length on each line
+<adiamas>       i agree.. any directory struct stuff should not be shown
+<adiamas>       sure you can.. it's called scroll :)
+<Bagder>        you wanna scroll all lines?
+<adiamas>       no.. only current selected line.. as you page through...
+<Bagder>        right
+<adiamas>       but if you only get the ful name when you cursor over it...
+<Bagder>        but then you don't need to store the full name in memory
+<adiamas>       you are going to be spinning up and down the drive constantly
+<adiamas>       sure you do
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Bagder>        true
+<adiamas>       now.. we can make alterations.. say.. ".mp3" can be dropped..
+<adiamas>       and all directory structure...
+<adiamas>       that i fully agree..
+<adiamas>       oh.. and another suggestion.. you should not be able to try and play _non_ mp3 files
+<adiamas>       i use my archos for data backup as well.. and my gf tried to 'play' "Oracle8"
+<adiamas>       hehehe
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<adiamas>       play didn't like that much
+<Bagder>        was it good? ;-P
+<adiamas>       id rather display "Not an mp3" or something when you select it...
+<adiamas>       and it's easy enough a check to do when you select a file to play
+<adiamas>       Bagder wanna do me a favor?
+<Bagder>        sure
+<adiamas>       could i mail you this icons.h and tree.c for the uisim.. 
+<adiamas>       let me know if the idea makes sense?
+<adiamas>       it works.. just dont wanna set bad precident
+<Bagder>        sure, fire away
+<adiamas>       so no reasont to check it in
+<PsycoXul>      i think it should do something specific to the filetype whenever it can, even if its something simple, and some simple thing for whatever unknown things
+<PsycoXul>      eg you "play" a text file it shows it to you
+<Bagder>        and if you play a HTML file ... *g*
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+*       Bagder grins
+<PsycoXul>      yes so when are we getting the modem driver for the serial port?
+<adiamas>       lol
+<Bagder>        uh, that'll be after I'm done with the apache port
+<PsycoXul>      hehe
+<adiamas>       bag, sent
+<Bagder>        gotem
+*       adiamas thinks you should all read quesiton # 17 on the FAQ
+<Bagder>        adiamas: I like that approach, I only have some nits
+<PsycoXul>      oh yeah btw
+<PsycoXul>      Q18. I don't see you mentioning ogg files on your list of ideas.  What about
+<PsycoXul>           supporting those?
+<PsycoXul>      that question kinda seems odd when right within the same page you can see
+<PsycoXul>      - Support playing of other files types (ie: Ogg Vorbis support)
+<PsycoXul>      in said list of ideas
+<Bagder>        adiamas: the array should be in the icons.c file, and the icons.h should have the enums and the array "extern"
+<adiamas>       well.. thats why i was planning on having the calling function to get the array
+<adiamas>       having externs all over the place is nasty
+<adiamas>       but thats just my opinion...
+<adiamas>       ill set it up your way and we can argue later :)
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<adiamas>       and i couldn't come up with a better name then that :)
+<Zagor> having extern in .h files is not nasty
+<Zagor> only in .c files
+<adiamas>       your right...
diff --git a/www/irc/rockbox-20020505.log b/www/irc/rockbox-20020505.log
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+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May  2 23:05:32 2002
+
+-->     adiamas (~adiamas@as5300-9.216-194-23-96.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     Topic for #rockbox is Open Source Jukebox Firmware - http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+---     Topic for #rockbox set by Zagor at Fri Apr 12 09:45:52
+<miah>  dah
+<adiamas>       mah
+-->     [TDM]Mr_B|away (~nx_2000@ip68-0-62-70.no.no.cox.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     [TDM]Mr_B|away is now known as [TDM]Mr_B
+<--     [TDM]Mr_B has quit ()
+<adiamas>       hmmm
+<miah>  hrm?
+<adiamas>       nothing.. just makeing updates to the uisim...
+<adiamas>       tetris now plays a bit nice with ppl...
+<adiamas>       and the menuing of the sim works properly./
+<miah>  nice
+<--     edx|sleeping has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<miah>  i've been following the project for a couple months now.. looks like things are getting there
+<miah>  i can't wait
+<adiamas>       are you on a win machine or a *nix?
+<miah>  unix
+<miah>  and windows
+<adiamas>       then you should pull down the sorce and play with the sim a bit :)
+<miah>  my unix boxes all lack X
+<adiamas>       ahhh.. 
+<miah>  yea, i havnt had much time to play with stuff lately
+<adiamas>       that could be a prob...
+<miah>  im working on a linux distro
+<adiamas>       nice... what pulled you into that?
+<miah>  well, i worked at turbolinux for a while
+<miah>  and then at penguin computing..
+<miah>  doing security / sys admin stuff.. been doing alot of sysadmin / security stuff basically
+<PsycoXul>      ok the cursor for the menu's
+<miah>  and got sick of installing and then configuring things to the way i liked them
+<PsycoXul>      it gets put back on tetris when i go to browse or rockabox
+<PsycoXul>      but its still actualy on browse or rockabox
+<miah>  so i started building my own stuff, so it would save me time..
+<PsycoXul>      and neither of them are doing anything for me
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<miah>  but i've been working on it for about a year now
+<adiamas>       hmm... let me look
+<adiamas>       hehe i know what it is.. one sec
+-->     calpefrosch (calpefrosc@p5082C7A8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #rockbox
+---     calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|away
+<adiamas>       okay.. which makes more sense...
+<adiamas>       you choose a menu..
+<adiamas>       enter it
+<adiamas>       when you come back out
+<adiamas>       should the cursor be at the top again, or where you left off?
+<adiamas>       im mixed on it
+<PsycoXul>      i say where you left off
+<miah>  where you left off..
+<adiamas>       cool.
+<PsycoXul>      and whichever it is, it should be consistent
+<adiamas>       well.. i sense a series of funcitons coming for menuing
+<PsycoXul>      the current firmware for the player does both in various places of the menu and its annoying heh
+<adiamas>       okay.. fixed
+<adiamas>       pull it down and try it
+<PsycoXul>      actualy its really screwy cause sometimes it goes to the top, sometimes it goes to where it was, and sometimes it goes to a different place in the menu 1 level up... heh [the archos player firmware, that is]
+*       adiamas nods
+<adiamas>       im going to be thinking about it over the weekend.. it irks me too
+*       adiamas takes a bit to switch gears from c++ mode to c mode
+<adiamas>       i miss classes _so_ much in a case like this :)
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      ok so yeah thats better
+*       adiamas nods
+<adiamas>       now i just want to slow down tetris,
+<adiamas>       fix scoring
+<PsycoXul>      browse and rockabox still don't do anything, and if you press left after pressing right on rockabox the items all go blank and you're left with just a cursor
+<adiamas>       well.. the browse
+<adiamas>       you need to add a 'archos' directory to your files
+<adiamas>       that is being used to represent the '/' on the player
+<PsycoXul>      where?
+<PsycoXul>      ah got it
+<PsycoXul>      nice
+<adiamas>       in the x11 dir or win dir you are using
+<adiamas>       now.. lets see if i can replicate your other issue
+<adiamas>       yeah.. roxabox is more of a place holder...
+<adiamas>       just something for the screen.. ill remove it.
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      so how much of this works target?
+<adiamas>       come again?
+<PsycoXul>      er
+<PsycoXul>      how much of this works on target?
+<PsycoXul>      you know actualy runs on the units
+<adiamas>       hmm i can't replicate your blanking when you go left after going right.
+<adiamas>       none yet
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      none?
+<adiamas>       the simulator just lets us higher level coders start using the api we are developing
+<PsycoXul>      the lcd/button stuff should work no?
+<adiamas>       well.. some barebones stuff has been worked on..
+<adiamas>       but no apps and such...
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      tetris and the screensaver should be able to run on it i would think
+<adiamas>       im not about to toss this stuff onto my unit yet ;)
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<adiamas>       okay.. newest version up.. try it now
+<adiamas>       PsycoXul are you working on windows or lin?
+<PsycoXul>      linux
+<adiamas>       k...
+<adiamas>       im waiting on one of the windows guys.. make sure this stuff works for them...
+<adiamas>       i dont think they would have a prob.. but you never know
+<PsycoXul>      so what i was really asking is how much of the api's used in the sim's little app/tetris/screensaver/browse are implemented for the target
+<adiamas>       everything that runs on/in the sim is using our api... so as far as i know.. most/all
+<adiamas>       though... you'd need to confirm that with Zagor and Bagder and edx
+<adiamas>       they tend to be involved with more of the on metal stuff
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      ok it looks that the file/directory stuff is still unimplemented 
+<adiamas>       thats part of what they are working on :)
+-->     Bagder2 (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<adiamas>       hey Bagder2
+<Bagder2>       morning
+<Bagder2>       :-)
+*       Bagder2 tries to figure out why there's a Bagder still present
+<adiamas>       there isn't on my list
+<Bagder2>       no, but if you /whois bagder, there is one
+<adiamas>       hmm.. odd
+<adiamas>       PsycoXul wanna do me a favor?
+<--     calpefrosch|away has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<Bagder2>       adiamas: we should rework the menu in app.c to support being longer than can be shown on screen
+<Bagder2>       imho
+*       adiamas nods
+<adiamas>       thats what im working on now ;)
+<adiamas>       but i also want to do a 'menu.c/h'
+*       Bagder2 bows in front of adiamas
+<adiamas>       so makes it easier for sub menus
+<Bagder2>       goodie
+<Bagder2>       I'll try to attack the dir browser more this weekend
+<adiamas>       sweet
+<adiamas>       oh.. btw.. off now turns off the sim on the main menu
+<Bagder2>       ok, seems reasonable
+<adiamas>       i thought so ;)
+<adiamas>       anyone mind if i remove the KEY PRESSED: output on stdout?
+<Bagder2>       no
+<Bagder2>       you can remove the lcd_update() crap too
+<adiamas>       k..
+<Bagder2>       we'll put it back the day we need to debug those things
+<Bagder2>       no need to have them there all the time
+<adiamas>       k.. then ill just comment them out
+<adiamas>       where in the hell is that beep coming from!
+<miah>  
+<miah>  =)
+<adiamas>       no ..
+<adiamas>       ive got that turned off ;)
+<adiamas>       i mean from the sim
+<Bagder2>       yeah I kinda hate that beep too
+<adiamas>       dude.. i don't know who just put in that last feature request, but they are sick :)
+*       Bagder2 agrees
+<adiamas>       when i do a cvs update
+<adiamas>       and i get an 'M' before a file...
+<adiamas>       whats that mean?
+<Bagder2>       Merge
+<Bagder2>       you have local changes
+<adiamas>       nods
+-->     calpefrosch (~calpefros@p5082C7A8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Bagder2>       morning Zagor
+<Zagor> ello
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder2>       morning Linus
+<Linus> Morning Bagder2
+<Bagder2>       Linus / Zagor you plan to go to the Appeal party tonight?
+<Zagor> yep
+<Bagder2>       me too
+<PsycoXul>      adiamas: what kind of favor?\
+<adiamas>       nevermind :)
+<PsycoXul>      ok sorry
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Linus> I am  not going
+<calpefrosch>   morning..(#)
+<calpefrosch>   for the simulator, which files do I have to create ?
+<adiamas>       what do you mean?
+<calpefrosch>   I created a \playlists\1.m3u, but I get a strange output
+<calpefrosch>   like: filename:     Pý°
+<calpefrosch>   load_playlist( £C )
+<adiamas>       dunno...
+<Bagder2>       what do you do to get that output?
+<calpefrosch>   compiled the simulator with VC++ and started it... 
+<Bagder2>       oh
+<calpefrosch>   Oh, I had to define the DEBUGF for VC++
+<calpefrosch>   -> #define DEBUGF debugf in debug.h
+<Bagder2>       I don't know why edx has involved the playlist stuff in the simulator at this point
+<calpefrosch>   ahh, you mean it is not ready to test...
+<Bagder2>       well, there shouldn't be any code calling any playlist functions
+<Bagder2>       since the app.c has no code to do that
+<calpefrosch>   he is calling the harness.c
+<Bagder2>       ... and that is badness
+<calpefrosch>   hmm
+<Bagder2>       the harness.c is the test code for the playlist, it isn't meant to run in a simulator
+<calpefrosch>   hehe, now it's working :-)
+*       adiamas nods
+<adiamas>       okay... i think im done for the evening...
+<adiamas>       sleepy time...
+<Bagder2>       night adiamas
+<adiamas>       and at the request of you europeans.. i am not going 'nappy' ;)
+<Bagder2>       haha
+<adiamas>       im bedding
+<calpefrosch>   good night
+---     You are now known as adi|asleep
+<--     calpefrosch (~calpefros@p5082C7A8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has left #rockbox
+---     Bagder2 is now known as Bagder
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|lunch
+-->     Nm`jaK^j (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Nm`jaK^j is now known as Bagder3
+---     Bagder3 is now known as Bagder44
+<Bagder44>      grrr
+<Zagor> what's happening?
+<Bagder44>      my muh disconnected and had problems to reconnect
+<Bagder44>      the Bagder is a true irc ghost
+<Bagder44>      it looks like an ircd bug
+---     Linus|lunch is now known as Linus
+<Zagor> fun..
+<Zagor> weee, now I can read partitioned disks too...
+<Bagder44>      coolers
+<--     Bagder has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<Zagor> lookie :)
+---     Bagder44 is now known as Bagder
+<Bagder>        that took a while
+<Linus> Gentlemen! WE HAVE SOUND!!!!!!!!!
+<Zagor> goooooogogowooo
+*       Zagor is droooooling
+*       Linus is screaming with joy!
+<Zagor> everybody else is sleeping ;)
+<Linus> typical...
+<PsycoXul>      sound?
+<Linus> I have managed to play MP3 data with the MAS!
+<PsycoXul>      woo
+<Linus> Kicking!
+<Linus> A historical moment. The first group to have their song played in the Rockbox is Machinae Supremacy.
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Linus> They shoule be proud
+<Zagor> rather fitting, I'd say :)
+<Linus> or rather 4 seconds of the beginning of the song, but what the heck... :-)
+<Zagor> this is the track, btw: http://www.machinaesupremacy.com/machinae_supremacy_-_arcade.mp3
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        Zagor: you tried the ATA/FAT32 on target yet?
+<Zagor> no, not yet. tomorrow...
+<Linus> We have a silly problem with the serial connection to thw MAS.
+<Zagor> more "annoyance" than problem
+<Zagor> yet very annoying :)
+<Linus> The serial interface in the SH1 sends the data LSB first, but the MAS wants it MSB first.
+<Linus> We have to swap bit order of EVERY byte we read from the hard drive!!!
+<Linus> AAAAAAH!
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> Welcome!
+<Linus> I have good news!
+<elinenbe>      congradulations!!!!!!!!!
+<elinenbe>      woooo hooo!!!!
+<Linus> You heard!
+<elinenbe>      yes!!!
+<Linus> Thx
+<elinenbe>      that is awesome!
+<Linus> Indeed!
+<Bagder>        so every byte must be reversed bitwise?
+<elinenbe>      but why that song? :(  Something like Krudser & Dorfmeister would have been more appropriate :)
+<Zagor> haha
+<Linus> Who are they?
+<Linus> Bagder: Yes, every byte
+<Bagder>        nono this should've played:
+<Zagor> we didn't select very conciously, but I think it's rather appropriate actually
+<Bagder>        Run level zero - strapped to machinery.mp3
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<Linus> or "Living in a Box"
+<Bagder>        Linus: time for inlined assembler? B-]
+<Bagder>        call Alan!
+*       Bagder giggles
+<elinenbe>      well, they are DJs from Germany "Kruder & Dorfmeister"
+<Zagor> They make new versions of old C64 songs which they publish on the web. Sort of like we make a new firmware and publish it.
+<Linus> Or "4 sekunder" with Magnus Uggla
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<PsycoXul>      wait
+<PsycoXul>      new versions of old c64 songs?
+<PsycoXul>      why would you want to do that? the c64 had such a cool sound
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|celebratin
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: listen to their rendition of "giana sisters". they do it justice!
+*       Linus|celebratin goes to buy candy
+<Zagor> ("do it justice"?) sometimes I don't even understand my own writing...
+<Linus|celebratin>      Swenglish
+<Zagor> time for some candy celebration. brb
+<elinenbe>      Is everyone here a sugar-holic, or is that just me?
+*       Bagder is gonna get a can of coke instead
+<miah>  the sidchip rules
+<Bagder>        it does
+*       Bagder , Linus and Zagor did lots of C64 stuff back in the late 80s
+<miah>  i've been encoding all my stuff into ogg lately.. after im done doing that, im probably going to start leeching all the s3m,mod,xm's that i can
+<miah>  i already have tons of sids
+<miah>  on one of my systems somewhere
+<PsycoXul>      yeah ogg
+<miah>  oggs are good
+<PsycoXul>      there needs to be a way to play ogg on the archos
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<miah>  that'd be cool, i'd like to see mod/s3m/xm too
+<miah>  that should be easy since those formats require very little cpu power
+<Bagder>        well
+<Zagor> we need a DSP guru
+<PsycoXul>      it needs realtime mixing
+<Bagder>        we only have one chip that plays sound
+<miah>  yea
+<Zagor> miah: those formats require multichannel mixing, which we can't do
+<miah>  really?
+<PsycoXul>      how many channels does the mas support to decode?
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: one mp3 stream
+<Bagder>        Zagor: where can I find info about that Splimp thing you have for mp3-playback at home?
+<PsycoXul>      yes
+<miah>  my stupid laptop keeps going into sleep mode.. so annoying
+<PsycoXul>      but mp3 streams can be multi-channel no?
+<Zagor> Bagder: www.slimdevices.com
+<Bagder>        thanks
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: 2 channel, yes
+<PsycoXul>      well mp3 supports more than that
+<PsycoXul>      at least mpeg2 layer3
+<PsycoXul>      i dunno much about the actual format though
+<Zagor> still, we'd have to mix it *and* encode it in the cpu
+<PsycoXul>      are multiple channels stored within single frames, or are channel frames interpolated?
+<Zagor> feel free to try, but I think it'll be hard
+---     Linus|celebratin is now known as Linus
+<Zagor> i think it's in a single frame, but I'm not sure
+<PsycoXul>      well there's pcm playback firmware in existance for the mas... i wonder how many channels it can support of pcm like that
+<PsycoXul>      but pcm in low quality could probably be mixed by the sh1 maybe?
+<Linus> The PCm mode will probably support only 2 channels, since the application is stereo sound
+<PsycoXul>      true
+<Linus> At least the interface to the DAC is only 2 channels
+<Zagor> well we have no pcm mode yet, so whoever writes that will decide :)
+<Linus> I pass
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      so what kind of input does the dac take from the mas?
+<Linus> It's a serial interface, clock, data and frame sync
+<Linus> two time slots one for left channel, one for right
+<Linus> 16-bit or 32-bit
+-->     edx|sleeping (~edx@pD9EAAD21.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<edx|sleeping>  hi
+---     edx|sleeping is now known as edx
+<Linus> Morning!
+---     edx is now known as edx|away
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<Bagder>        Zagor: you wanna meet somewhere?
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     calpefrosch (calpefrosc@p5082C402.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #Rockbox
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     calpefrosch has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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+<--     calpefrosch has quit (Client Quit)
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+-->     thomasvs (~thomas@217-136-252-195.skynet.be) has joined #rockbox
+<thomasvs>      kaping
+<thomasvs>      hello
+<thomasvs>      anyone around ?
+<--     calpefrosch|away has quit ()
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+<adi|asleep>    only for a sec.. on my way to work...
+<thomasvs>      ok
+<thomasvs>      ;)
+<thomasvs>      I was just wandering how much an archos player costs
+<miah>  about $300
+<adi|asleep>    you can check them out on ebay as well...
+<adi|asleep>    i picked mine up for about 200
+<thomasvs>      ok, thanks
+<elinenbe>      get the recoder... much nicer!
+<miah>  but arnt the player and recorder basically the same thing?
+<--     thomasvs has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<--     calpefrosch|away has quit ()
+<elinenbe>      yes, but no.  The recorder has a more able screen...
+<--     elinenbe has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.6 [Mozilla rv:0.9.9+/20020414]")
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+<--     adi|work has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
+-->     adiamas (~adiamas@151.204.140.140) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<--     Zagor has quit ("bye")
+<PsycoXul>      anybody around? know um...
+<PsycoXul>      <segher> how many cycles to read/write that dram?
+<PsycoXul>      for the player?
+<PsycoXul>      <segher> well, this device is really tight on resources.  good luck.
+<PsycoXul>      <PsycoXul> heh
+<PsycoXul>      <PsycoXul> you think its possible?
+<PsycoXul>      <segher> might be possible, yes
+<PsycoXul>      <PsycoXul> i should send somebody who's more knowledgable on the hardware and 
+<PsycoXul>                 hax0ring in here to talk to you heh
+<PsycoXul>      ::: haze!chris@12-255-198-216.client.attbi.com has quit: Connection timed out
+<PsycoXul>      <segher> with highly optimized code, it should _just_ work.
+<PsycoXul>      ^^ #vorbis, on player's hardware potential for decoding ogg with mas3507d + sh1 cooperating
+<PsycoXul>      <segher> psyco: afaics, the MAS whould be able to do the (m)dct for you
+<PsycoXul>      <PsycoXul> ok
+<PsycoXul>      <segher> it will be quite some (fun!) work, though
+<--     edx|away has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+-->     calpefrosch (~calpefros@p5082C14D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #Rockbox
+<--     calpefrosch (~calpefros@p5082C14D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has left #Rockbox
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<adi|asleep>    hey zagor...
+<Zagor> hey
+<adi|asleep>    you see any problem if i hack out a menu.c/h over the weekend 
+<adi|asleep>    i figure im already noticing repetition in how ppl are looking to menu in the sim...
+<adi|asleep>    figured i cold give us a basis..
+<adi|asleep>    rather then reinventing the wheel.
+<Zagor> sure
+<adi|asleep>    have you played with the sim recently?
+<Zagor> no
+<adi|asleep>    ahh...
+<adi|asleep>    well.. tetris plays a bit nicer and we have a basic screen saver.....
+<PsycoXul>      i talked to somebody in #vorbis about ogg stuff on the hardware... here's what they said:
+<PsycoXul>      <segher> well, this device is really tight on resources.  good luck.
+<PsycoXul>       <segher> might be possible, yes
+<PsycoXul>      <segher> with highly optimized code, it should _just_ work.
+<PsycoXul>      <segher> psyco: afaics, the MAS whould be able to do the (m)dct for you
+<PsycoXul>      <segher> it will be quite some (fun!) work, though
+<Zagor> interesting
+<Zagor> nobody volunteered to help? ;)
+<adi|asleep>    oh.. zagor.. ment to ask...
+<PsycoXul>      nope heh
+<adi|asleep>    in the contrib file...
+<adi|asleep>    any reason your against const?
+<Zagor> yes, people tend to use it wrong
+<PsycoXul>      so i take it opendir(),readdir(), etc don't work on target yet? heh
+<Zagor> opendir/readdir works for the root dir, but currently not for subdirs. i'm fixing that right now
+<adi|asleep>    i have a habit of doing it.  bear with while i adjust :)
+<adi|asleep>    okay.. off to bed.. need 2 hrs...
+*       Zagor just got up :)
+<adi|asleep>    hehhe i _should_ be just getting up...
+<adi|asleep>    06:10... gotta love it..
+<PsycoXul>      Zagor: how do i open the root directory?
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: opendir("/")
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<adi|asleep>    Psyco check out tree.h and tree.c
+<PsycoXul>      well that doesn't seem to return on my unit
+<adi|asleep>    in uisim/x11
+<adi|asleep>    PsycoXul you need to add an "archos" dir
+<PsycoXul>      i'm not talking about in the sim
+<adi|asleep>    that is being used to simulate the '/' on the player
+<PsycoXul>      i got the sim browser to work
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<adi|asleep>    heheh ahh.. k
+<PsycoXul>      lemme see where its having problems actualy..
+<PsycoXul>      well first thing i notice is that on my player lcd_clear_display() misses the last 2 chars
+<PsycoXul>      and next is that
+<PsycoXul>              dir=opendir("/");
+<PsycoXul>      doesn't return
+<PsycoXul>      unless there's something i need to do before it that i'm not
+<Zagor> look in test/fat
+<PsycoXul>      heh thats kinda funny if you make clean with a clean tree it generates the dependancies and then removes them :p
+<Zagor> look in test/fat/main.c
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<Zagor> you need to run ata_init(), disk_init() and fat_mount() before you can start using the disk
+<PsycoXul>      ah ok
+<PsycoXul>      ok i see
+<PsycoXul>      anything to call later like to umount or spindown or something?
+<Zagor> you don't have to, no writing is implemented yet so it's failsafe
+<PsycoXul>      why is there a firmware/disk.h and firmware/common/disk.h
+<Zagor> firmware/disk.h will change, it's just a code container at the moment
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<PsycoXul>              lcd_puts(0,0,"Hello.");
+<PsycoXul>              if(ata_init()) {
+<PsycoXul>                      lcd_puts(0,0,"Disk error");
+<PsycoXul>                      return -1;
+<PsycoXul>              }       
+<PsycoXul>              lcd_puts(0,0,"ata init.");
+<PsycoXul>      all i get is "Hello."
+<Zagor> the ata code is not target tested yet, I'll be doing that today
+<PsycoXul>      ah
+<Zagor> now we know it doesn't work :)
+<PsycoXul>      hehe
+-->     edx|away (~edx@pD9EA97B2.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        hey ho
+<Zagor> hi
+<Bagder>        I'm thinking about the played lcd API, when using x y coordinates, is 0 the first line and 1 the second?
+<Bagder>        player
+<Bagder>        can't see any reason why not, just checking
+<Zagor> i agree
+---     Bagder is now known as Bagder|laundry
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     Bagder|laundry is now known as Bagder
+*       Bagder starts to get the player simulator going
+<Zagor> have you seen adis latest items on the faq?
+<Bagder>        nope
+<Zagor> s/latest/last/
+<Zagor> Q: But I _really_ want to talk with you in person.
+<Zagor> adiamas: I'm sorry.  My girlfriend/boyfriend/pet says I'm not allowed to, and the
+<Zagor>    doctors here won't let me have pens or pencils.  They say its some rule
+<Zagor>    about us not having sharp objects.  I'm sorry.  Now please stop calling me
+<Zagor>    here.
+<Bagder>        ah yes
+<Bagder>        that's a good one ;-)
+<Zagor> yes
+<PsycoXul>      ok so how do i use custom chars on the player LCD with the new codebase? there an api for it?
+<Bagder>        is that lcd_define_pattern() ?
+<PsycoXul>      is it?
+<Bagder>        I dunno ;-)
+<Zagor> yes
+<Zagor> I think so :)
+<PsycoXul>      heh so how do i use it? 
+<Zagor> 1. fix it
+<Zagor> 2. use it 
+<Zagor> :)
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Bagder>        3. add it to the simulator 
+<PsycoXul>      hehe
+<Zagor> yup, those are the official docs
+<Bagder>        I have to admit that my fixes to get the player-simulator running ain't the most beautiful ones you've seen
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      i just run my test code on my player 
+<Bagder>        since I want to use the bitmap functions
+<Bagder>        but simulate the charcell lcd api
+<PsycoXul>      i'd honestly much rather have a bootloader than a simulator personally, just wish i knew the first clue about making one heh
+*       Zagor just realized he has no sh-elf-gdb :(
+*       Bagder commits
+<PsycoXul>      hmmm....
+-->     calpefrosch|away (calpefrosc@p5082C14D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #Rockbox
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<PsycoXul>      how long does sleep(1) sleep for?
+<Zagor> one tick
+<--     calpefrosch|away has quit ()
+<PsycoXul>      how long is a tick?
+<Zagor> 1/HZ seconds
+<Zagor> HZ is defined in kernel.h
+<PsycoXul>      ah
+<PsycoXul>      ok lcd_backlight() doesn't do anything on my player
+<Zagor> ok
+<PsycoXul>      with 1 or 0 as the arg
+<Zagor> I guess the port pins differ
+<--     Zagor has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
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+<--     PsycoXul has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<--     miah has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     PsycoXul (psyco@adsl-63-205-40-140.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     miah (21-ident-i@pihkal.com) has joined #rockbox
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      i dunno
+<PsycoXul>      i do an lcd_puts and then a sleep(75); and then another lcd_puts() and i only get the 1st one
+<Zagor> you're on the cutting edge :)
+<Zagor> currently, sleep() only works right in the test/kernel code, since the main stuff doesn't have a timer interrupt enabled
+<PsycoXul>      ah
+<PsycoXul>      there an easy way to use it, or should i do something to sleep?
+<Zagor> i'd suggest a busy wait at the moment
+<PsycoXul>      whats that? :p
+<Zagor> a for() loop instead of the sleep
+<PsycoXul>      i see, so thats what thats called heh
+<Zagor> the term "busy" is used for when you don't allow other threads to execute
+<PsycoXul>      ok now this loop is working but within it i'm doing key=button_get(); if(key) { switch(key) { case etc etc } } 
+<PsycoXul>      i've got cases for BUTTON_DOWN, UP, ON, LEFT, RIGHT, and MENU, and default
+<PsycoXul>      and with our without a button pressed it hits default
+<PsycoXul>      s/our/or/
+<Zagor> sounds good
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      man
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      shouldn't a make clean rm */*.o too? and not generate dependancies? heh
+<Zagor> picky picky :)
+<PsycoXul>      oh come ON... umount's gonna hang now again already? fuck
+<Zagor> usb-storage is far from perfect...
+<PsycoXul>      well it needs to do something different thats for sure... can't accomplish much being forced to reboot at its random whims
+<PsycoXul>      at least like TIME OUT or SOMETHING
+<Zagor> he's doing a big rewrite for 2.5
+<PsycoXul>      reboot, turn the thing back on, plug it in, load the modules, copy a file and it hangs right there AGAIN
+<PsycoXul>      not a whole lot of things get me upset... but having to reboot over and over again because of some stupid device that shouldn't be having any problems to start with, much less make me have to actualy interrupt my system usage, and having to wait months/years for the fix is exactly why i don't run some OTHER OS
+<Zagor> heh, yeah...
+<Zagor> you should consider the serial port fix
+<PsycoXul>      goddamn i can't get this one little file copied on here now
+<PsycoXul>      3 reboots and it STILL fucking up
+<PsycoXul>      and then i'll still need to copy the real working firmware back on to there once i get this to work
+<PsycoXul>      i'll probably have to fucknig juggle hardware, boot it to windows and scandisk, juggle hardware back, boot back to linux, probably have to reboot a few more times 
+*       PsycoXul considers selling his archos and taking the money for vocal lessons
+<PsycoXul>      hey i can store a lot more than 20G worth of music in my head :p
+<Zagor> :)
+*       Zagor sings in a chamber choir
+<PsycoXul>      ok so i made the default do
+<PsycoXul>      snprintf(ugh,11,"%d",key);
+<PsycoXul>      lcd_puts(0,0,ugh);
+<Zagor> ok
+<PsycoXul>      i get 243 with no buttons, 242 for ON, 241 for menu, 227 for play/up, 211 for stop/down, 179 for left, and 115 for right
+<PsycoXul>      and various others with combinations heh
+<Zagor> from button_get() ?
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<Zagor> odd
+<Zagor> it should return 1,2,4,8 etc no?
+<PsycoXul>      well looking at the code, thats what you'd think.. heh
+<Zagor> uhu
+<PsycoXul>      same with or without calling button_init() first
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      btw i think portc & 0x10 gets triggered on the player when the stop buttons held for 3 seconds or whatever, just before it shuts off
+<Zagor> yes, that would be interesting
+<PsycoXul>      i don't even know what & does... i don't know much if anything about binary and binary operations or low-level programming or anything like that though...
+<PsycoXul>      my latest project with C was struggling to successfully read a wav header into a struct from stdin heh
+<Zagor> & is "and". portc & 0x10 tests if bit 4 is set in portc
+<PsycoXul>      bit 4?
+<Zagor> yes, bit0 = 0x01, 1=0x02, 2=0x04, 3=0x08, 4=0x10
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<PsycoXul>      know of any good online docs that'd teach me this kinda stuff? 
+<Zagor> umm, no
+<Zagor> :)
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Zagor> maybe http://www.learn-c.com/
+<Zagor> http://www.learn-c.com/boolean.htm
+<PsycoXul>      cool.. i'll read that later... enough hax0ring stuff today for me heh
+<Zagor> :)
+<--     Zagor has quit ("bye")
+<--     elinenbe has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<--     edx|away has quit ("brb")
+-->     edx (~edx@pD9EA97B2.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     PsycoXul has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<--     miah has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+-->     miah (21-ident-i@pihkal.com) has joined #rockbox
+-->     PsycoXul (psyco@adsl-63-205-40-140.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     Disconnected (Connection timed out).
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun May  5 01:46:26 2002
+
diff --git a/www/irc/rockbox-20020509.log b/www/irc/rockbox-20020509.log
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@@ -0,0 +1,1656 @@
+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May  6 00:25:45 2002
+
+-->     stile (~adiamas@as5300-9.216-194-23-71.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     Topic for #rockbox is Open Source Jukebox Firmware - http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+---     Topic for #rockbox set by Zagor at Fri Apr 12 09:45:52
+<--     adiamas has quit (Killed (NickServ (Nickname Enforcement)))
+-->     lou_soyur (~adiamas@pool-151-204-140-140.ny325.east.verizon.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     You are now known as adiamas
+-->     [TDM]Mr_B|away (~nx_2000@ip68-0-62-70.no.no.cox.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     [TDM]Mr_B|away is now known as [TDM]Mr_B
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     ChanServ gives channel operator status to Bagder
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     hello?
+<Bagder>        hey ho
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     ...just an outsider with some questions
+<Bagder>        go ahead and ask, I'll try to answer
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     i've been following this project for a short while and i'm very interested...
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     I was wondering what progress you've made.  Is there anything working that a programming novice can use?
+<Bagder>        we're doing two different simulators, for running the app itself on host machines
+<Bagder>        one for win32, one for X11
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     is there an exe of that sim?
+<Bagder>        we do not have the app actually running on target just yet
+<Bagder>        edx is the author of the win32 simulator, we should ask him to post a binary on the web site
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     exactly what improvments/additions are you guys working on?
+<Bagder>        I think many of them are mentioned of the web site
+<Bagder>        we need to implement everything by ourselves
+<Bagder>        so we will try to write an mp3 player software that meets the audience demands
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     when do you think some of these enhancments will be avaliable for the layman to download?
+<Bagder>        we *hope* we will have the first actual target firmware that works *somewhat* before the end of this month
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     cool
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     how well does tretris work?
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     ...tetris
+<Bagder>        it works pretty good ;-)
+<Bagder>        no scores yet though
+<Bagder>        I expect that we will get even more programmers joining up the very second we have a first target version
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     i'm looking forward to all of it
+<Bagder>        :-) me too
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     I see you guys are working on a FAT 32 fs
+<Bagder>        yes, we need that to be able to read the disk
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     I guess that would make installation/use easier?
+<Bagder>        the disk is using fat32, we need to read dirs/files from it...
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     ok, I get it
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     would you mind tellingme exactly what other modifications you guys are working on?
+<Bagder>        we replace the entire software
+<Bagder>        we hope to make the player more intuitive and more capable than the built-in software
+<Bagder>        if you've used it, you know it isn't very good
+<Bagder>        its about resuming play in a playlist
+<Bagder>        handling big playlists
+<Bagder>        and all sorts of stuff
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     well, thanks for entertaining my questions
+<Bagder>        personally, I do most of this because of the shear fun
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     same here, only with coding hypertext
+*       adiamas coughs "Read the faq"
+<Bagder>        feel free to let us know if you think you can help out the project in any way you see fit
+*       adiamas nods
+<adiamas>       hey Bagder whats doing?
+<Bagder>        did lots yesterdat, as the CVS-list shows ;-)
+<adiamas>       heheh yeah..
+<adiamas>       I _can't_ believe that i forgot to call the function pointers when i put that in :)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     ...I read the FAQ 3 times
+<adiamas>       heheh k :)
+<adiamas>       can't help; it... 
+<adiamas>       its my pet project :)
+<adiamas>       any suggestions on additions or rewording?
+<Bagder>        adiamas: "why do you write a replacement software?"
+<Bagder>        adiamas: "when do you think there is a version available for my Archos?"
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     well, it doesn't answer too many questions
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     tell people about exactly what's being redone and maybe when people will be able to enjoy your labors on their players
+<adiamas>       What exactly are you trying to achieve with this line of development?
+<adiamas>       should that be reworded?
+<Bagder>        adiamas: could you unmber the questions? it would be easier to direct people to a specific question then
+<Bagder>        hm
+<Bagder>        number
+<adiamas>       hmmm how shoul di answer "when do you think there will be a version available?"
+<adiamas>       sure could...
+<Bagder>        adiamas: well, I think that question deserves to be answered very unspecific
+<Bagder>        we might all get very busy all of a sudden
+<Bagder>        so say something like maybe in a month, maybe in three, maybe in six
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     true
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     to quote Dilbert... "ONe month to complete the project and 5 months to play 'Doom' on my computer."
+<adiamas>       lol
+<Bagder>        in this case, of course, it is Tetris ;-)
+*       Bagder just applied patched mailed to him from Dave Chapman
+<Bagder>        patches
+<Bagder>        grrrr, can't type
+<adiamas>       hmmm ... i need a polite way of saying 'Fuck off you complete moron."
+<adiamas>       Suggestions?
+<Bagder>        heh, in which context?
+<adiamas>       never mind.. i have an answer...
+<Bagder>        you're the american ;-)
+<Bagder>        Mr_B: where are you from?
+-->     calpefrosch (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has joined #Rockbox
+<calpefrosch>   moin
+<Bagder>        morning calpefrosch
+<Bagder>        the win32 simulator might need some attention now ;-)
+*       Bagder whistles innocently
+<calpefrosch>   hmm, let's talk about some details. 
+*       Bagder browses subdirs in his simulator!
+<Bagder>        calpefrosch: what kind of details?
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     ...New Orleans
+<adiamas>       okay.. faq updated.. anyone wanna take a look?
+*       Bagder shows his thumbs up
+<adiamas>       :)
+<adiamas>       im a bit heavy on the sarcasm.. but bugger it... let them deal with it...
+<Bagder>        we need that
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     ...an improvment...and I love sarcasm
+<Bagder>        it makes it more obvious everything isn't so serious
+*       Bagder runs for more coffee
+*       adiamas cheers wildly
+<adiamas>       [TDM]Mr_B your on windows correct?
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     Windows XP home
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     well, I should reall y be in bed, night folks
+<--     [TDM]Mr_B has quit ()
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Bagder>        morning Zagor
+<Zagor> morn
+<Zagor> you sure had a busy sunday :)
+<Bagder>        yeps, did my share of cleaning up ;-)
+<calpefrosch>   sorry, have been to a meeting
+<Bagder>        Zagor: the simulator is growing cooler
+<Zagor> nice!
+<Bagder>        Dave Chapman stepped in and sent me patches too
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> Boo!
+*       Bagder boos Linus back
+<adiamas>       looking at the throughput that this guy dave is doing.. maybe he should be considered for cvs access...
+<Bagder>        yes, I mailed him about it
+<adiamas>       cool
+<calpefrosch>   Badger: I ment which kind of attention ?
+<Bagder>        calpefrosch: ah, it won't build just now since I've added more firmware files to the build
+*       adiamas screams
+*       adiamas slams his head against the wall..
+<Bagder>        keeping both simulators up-to-date is a challange
+<adiamas>       okay.. i screwed up.. so i may as well clue everyone in...
+*       adiamas was working on tic-tac-toe for the archos...
+*       adiamas was 1/2 way there...
+<Linus> adiamas is a hero
+<calpefrosch>   Badger: ok, I'll try to build it this morning. 
+*       adiamas f***ed up...
+<adiamas>       see... before i went to see the girlfriend this weekend i 'cleaned' up[ my sim dir...
+*       adiamas doesn't really remember deleteing the files.. but they are gone
+<adiamas>       so it's gonna be a few days to finish :(
+<Bagder>        :-/
+<Linus> We have a saying:
+<Linus> "do it properly, or do it many times"
+<Linus> :-)
+<adiamas>       oh.. i did it properly...
+<adiamas>       if deletion was our aim...
+<Linus> and now you will do it again
+<adiamas>       lol
+<adiamas>       yup
+<adiamas>       oh.. btw.. was it cool that i went to function pointers on the sim?
+<adiamas>       just seemed to make more sense
+<Bagder>        yeah, its good
+<Linus> I just got the MAS DMA working...
+<Bagder>        *cool*
+*       Zagor feels Linus breathing down his neck again...
+<calpefrosch>   badger: what is that header "unistd.h" ?
+<calpefrosch>   btw, sorry for *always* changing the letters b and g ... 
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Linus> We have a serious problem with the project...
+<adiamas>       whats that?
+<Bagder>        calpefrosch: I don't think that should be included
+<Linus> Apparently, Zagor pretends that he has a life, seriously slowing down the development!!! :-)
+<Bagder>        calpefrosch: as that is a unix-only include file
+<adiamas>       LOL
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Bagder>        hahaha
+*       adiamas pokes Zagor
+<adiamas>       oh.. i had an idea while driving my 2.5 hrs back home..
+<Zagor> I knew you'd see right through me :)
+<adiamas>       i was doing random through one of my playlists...
+<Bagder>        random thoughts are good :-P
+<Zagor> adiamas: you have a 2.5h commute?!?
+<adiamas>       and realized it would be _really_ cool if i could hit a button and have the current song added to a 'favorites' list
+<calpefrosch>   Bagder: It's in the ID3.c. Could you remove it, or do you need it there?
+<Linus> adiamas: great idea
+<adiamas>       Zagor: nah.. only to see my girlfriend.
+<Zagor> ah
+<adiamas>       i figured.. this 'favorite' list could just be a dynamic playlist...
+<Linus> adiamas has a life too?
+<Bagder>        calpefrosch: *gone*
+<adiamas>       because with 1000+ plus songs it _sucks_ to have to manually pick out my favs...
+<Linus> Just delete the other ones. :-)
+<calpefrosch>   Bagder: tnx
+<adiamas>       Linus:  a girlfriend 2 hrs away, a job, ride for my ambulance core ... _And_ i still find time to hang out here and be unproductive and sarcastic...
+<adiamas>       :)
+*       adiamas smiles at linus
+*       Linus smiles
+*       adiamas thinks your just jealous cause i wrote a cheap little screensaver... :)
+*       Linus tries to have a life too...wife and kids!
+<Zagor> Linus: that's a life? ;)
+<adiamas>       congrats...
+<Linus> :-)
+<adiamas>       how long you been married mate?
+<Linus> Almost 2 years
+<Bagder>        2+ here
+<adiamas>       hehe
+<adiamas>       im just starting to get to that point...
+<adiamas>       friggin distance is killing me
+---     Tumm is now known as coyote-
+<adiamas>       umm... any chance of having the DISPLAY value in the sim makefile be a bit more useful?
+<adiamas>       someone who doesn't know the project won't know which is which....
+<adiamas>       CHARCELLS vs BITMAP
+<Bagder>        well
+<Bagder>        I didn't wanna use the actual target-defines
+<adiamas>       how do you mean?
+<Bagder>        we use ARCHOS_PLAYER and ARCHOS_RECORDER for target builds
+<adiamas>       ahh.. i got ya...
+<Bagder>        but they imply more than just different LCDs
+<Bagder>        maybe we can just add two big comments in the Makefile for now, explaining which is which
+<adiamas>       well.. its only the recorder that has BITMAP right?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<adiamas>       well.. instead of HAVE_LCD_CHARCELLS .. what about HAVE_RECORDER_LCD
+<Bagder>        thinking about it...
+<adiamas>       nods
+<Bagder>        ARCHOS_PLAYER and ARCHOS_RECORDER would probably be best
+<Bagder>        then we'll be forced to include "config.h" properly
+<adiamas>       hmm.. well.. id rather stay the way we are then for now...
+<Bagder>        anyway, those defines are documented in firmware/CONFIG
+*       adiamas nods
+<calpefrosch>   Bagder: do we use harness.c or app.c for the sim ?
+<Bagder>        calpefrosch: remove the harness.c completely from the sim
+<Bagder>        it isn't meant to be there
+<Bagder>        app.c is the app main entry
+<calpefrosch>   ok
+*       calpefrosch have to go to a meeting.
+<calpefrosch>   brb
+---     calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|meet
+<adiamas>       could someone explain this to me?
+<adiamas>       $(CC) $(CFLAGS) -c $< -o $@
+<adiamas>       i know cc and cflags
+<adiamas>       -c im good
+<adiamas>       -o im good
+<adiamas>       but on a makefile i forget what $< and $@ are...
+<Bagder>        $< is the file on the right side of the : in the rule-line above
+<adiamas>       okay...
+<Bagder>        and $@ is the file on the left side of the : above
+<adiamas>       ahh.. okay.. thanks
+<Linus> Actually, $< is the file that triggered the rebuild, isn't it?
+<Zagor> no, that could be a .h file
+<Linus> So what is $< when there are two files on the right side?
+<Bagder>        the first one I think
+<Zagor> the first, I think
+<Zagor> :)
+<Linus> OK. And $* is all of them, right?
+<Zagor> ummm 'info make'
+<Zagor> ;)
+<adiamas>       im just trying to find a way to clean up the sim makefile
+<adiamas>       i have to believe there is an easier way to build the app obj files w/o having to do : filename.o: $(DIRPATH)/filename.c
+<adiamas>           $(CC) $(CFLAGS) -c $< -o $@
+<adiamas>       10 times
+<Bagder>        this klez virus sure is annoying
+<adiamas>       heheh whats the prob?
+<Bagder>        it mails
+<adiamas>       got ya
+<Bagder>        I've received >50 mails with klez
+<Zagor> yeah
+<Bagder>        it fakes From: line, and it fakes Subject: and it attaches the virus
+---     calpefrosch|meet is now known as calpefrosch
+<adiamas>       as far as menus go... for sim and target.. should we assume that all menu items will be the same size...
+<adiamas>       and if the user wants to increase the font, they do so for all menus?
+<Zagor> for now, sure
+<Bagder>        adiamas: oh yes, certainly
+<adiamas>       k
+<Bagder>        hm, the cvs page doesn't mention the cvs-commit mailing list
+<Zagor> right
+<Bagder>        is that one mentioned on any page?
+<adiamas>       in emacs.. how do i open a fresh buffer?
+<Zagor> i don't think so, only in mail
+<adiamas>       like the scratch buffer..
+<Zagor> adiamas: C-x b
+<Bagder>        adiams: control-x b
+<adiamas>       thanks
+<adiamas>       not switch.. i know that one...
+<adiamas>       to create a clean unused buffer...
+<Bagder>        enter a name of a non-existing buffer
+<adiamas>       ahhh k
+<Bagder>        *plopp*
+<Linus> Intuitive, right? :-)
+<adiamas>       hehehe
+<adiamas>       sure
+<adiamas>       im looking at app.c
+<adiamas>       wouldn't it make more sense to have #include "tree.h" and #include screensaver inside the #ifdef HAVE_LCD_BITMAP?
+<Bagder>        it depends, the tree.c functionality should probably work on the Player too
+<Bagder>        the screensaver though, could very well be inside that #ifdef
+<adiamas>       k...
+<adiamas>       ill fix that then
+<Bagder>        Zagor: how do I figure out the attributes of a dirent struct? Can I see if its a file or dir there?
+<Zagor> yes, I just have to add the ATTR* macros from fat.h into dir.h
+<Bagder>        ok, then I'll need to make sure the simulator supports them
+<Zagor> yup
+<Zagor> not perfectly POSIX, but I think it's a fair trade-off
+<Bagder>        I agree
+<adiamas>       umm.. what do we call a menu item?
+<adiamas>       is the generic term 'item' okay?
+<adiamas>       more specifically 'menu_item'
+<Zagor> menu_item sounds nice :)
+<adiamas>       k...
+<adiamas>       hehhe okay.. its offical.. we have the first stages of a menu api
+<Zagor> goodie
+<adiamas>       once i commit, im going to ask you to look at the menu.h file and see if the functions make sense w/o comments.
+<Zagor> ok
+<Zagor> the struct name shouldn't use uppercase
+<adiamas>       at all?
+<Zagor> what's the difference btwn put_cursor(0) and put_cursor_menu_top?
+<Zagor> no, only lowercase
+<adiamas>       scrolling menus...
+<adiamas>       idea is that put_cursor puts you at the top of the menu all togeather..
+<adiamas>       put_cursor_menu_top wold be viable menu
+<adiamas>       right now there is no difference
+<Zagor> ok
+<adiamas>       basically.. put_cursor() puts you _anywhere_ 
+<adiamas>       ill clear it all up in comments as i go...
+<Zagor> ok
+<adiamas>       that and ill try for better names...
+<adiamas>       i just get sick when i think of "put_cursor_to_top_of_visable_menu()"
+<adiamas>       :)
+<Zagor> uh, me too...
+<Zagor> I prefer fewer functions with parameter rather than many (void) functions
+<Zagor> within reason, of course
+<adiamas>       so do i...
+<adiamas>       downside right now is there isnt much our menuing is doing...
+<adiamas>       always easier to coalese basic functions togeather...
+<adiamas>       least for me
+<Zagor> yeah, I'll give you some slack for the moment :)
+<adiamas>       oh sure.. make it easy...
+<adiamas>       what im trying to figure out is how to handle sub menus...
+<adiamas>       what i was thinking is that maybe we keep the menu_struct we have..
+<adiamas>       but as we add submenus we just create an array of the structs...
+<Bagder>        adiamas: first, can you think of any submenu we should have?
+<adiamas>       and jsut reference them.. but im not sure..
+<adiamas>       sure...
+<adiamas>       :games
+<Bagder>        right
+<adiamas>       and when we get more ppl playing with the ui, itll get more robust...
+<adiamas>       options menu
+<adiamas>       i ment to ask.. seeing as you'all are working in firmware...
+<adiamas>       i know the idea of a 'boot' loader is not a good idea... but what about the ability for the user to have a menu to choose which version of firmware to boot with next?
+<Bagder>        of course we want that
+<adiamas>       rather then having to copy files too and from the archos to play with firmware
+<Bagder>        exactly
+<Bagder>        you could have X different firmwares
+<adiamas>       nods
+<Linus> I can't recall that anybody said a boot loader was a bad idea...
+*       adiamas assumed....
+<adiamas>       so shoot me :)
+<Linus> Actually, we have talked a lot about that, the project name is called RoLo
+<Linus> for Rockbox Loader
+<adiamas>       sweet...
+<Linus> ...as candy
+<adiamas>       you guys have done a fantastic job getting off metal quick.. have i mentioned that?
+*       Zagor notes it's even in the Activity chart on the web page
+<Linus> Thx
+<adiamas>       umm.. in API
+<adiamas>       we list mp3info as returning FALSE if successful
+<adiamas>       huh?
+<adiamas>       that can't be right.
+<Bagder>        correct
+<Bagder>        that's wrong ;-)
+<adiamas>       k.. ive got it
+<Bagder>        euhhh
+<Bagder>        no
+<Bagder>        it is correct
+<adiamas>       okay.. so it _should_ be FALSE?
+<adiamas>       ummm.. that seems really counterintuitive guys?
+<Bagder>        it works that way now
+<Bagder>        not really
+<Bagder>        because it leaves the opportunity to return different return codes for different failures
+<adiamas>       but TRUE should _never_ be a failure...
+<adiamas>       unless the function is invalid_mp3info()
+<calpefrosch>   I made the win32-sim working. how can I diff so you can work with ?
+<Linus> If you plan to use other return codes that TRUE or FALSE you should use another return type.
+*       adiamas nods
+<Bagder>        yes, but I wouldn't have to change the checks
+<Linus> I don't follow
+<Bagder>        non-zero would mean error
+<adiamas>       i still don't get why FALSE means you _were_ able to fine mp3info
+<Zagor> FALSE is boolean, this is int
+<Zagor> it's 0, not FALSE
+<Linus> Bagder: of course. That is why you should use int
+<Bagder>        nag nag
+<Bagder>        calpefrosch: I
+<adiamas>       correct correct
+<Bagder>        'd prefer a diff -u ...
+<Linus> And the comment above the function says it returns "void" :-)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Linus> That is a rather redundant comment.
+<Bagder>        it *did*
+<calpefrosch>   Bagder: ok, but I'm a windows-user. I only have checkboxes in wincvs ;-)
+<adiamas>       well.. im submitting grammer corrections now.. 
+<adiamas>       argue once it's in
+<Linus> Anyone can see what the function returns
+<calpefrosch>   which should I check ?
+<Bagder>        calpefrosch: ok, a unified diff, you should be able to make one of those I guess
+<adiamas>       okay.. commited
+<adiamas>       is there a way to prevent dependancy checking when you are doing a make clean?
+<Zagor> calpefrosch: I'll add you for cvs commit access. what's your sourceforge ID?
+<calpefrosch>   I have no ID yet
+<Zagor> ok
+<calpefrosch>   I will create it now, ok?
+<Bagder>        run run! ;-)
+<adiamas>       am i correct that to adjust the lcd size i edit lcd-x11?
+<adiamas>       or lcd-win32 respectively?
+<Bagder>        what size?
+<Bagder>        of the window?
+<adiamas>       well. when i compile the sim for recorder.. size is fine..
+<adiamas>       when i compile fore player... it doen'st make sense to keep the ui the same size..
+<Bagder>        true
+<adiamas>       dunno how to fix it.. wantted to see how to do it
+<Bagder>        the size for the x11 sim window is in the screenhack.c file
+<adiamas>       is that default_defaults?
+<Bagder>        yep
+<adiamas>       is the player the same width?
+<adiamas>       just only 2 lines hight?
+<Bagder>        no
+<Bagder>        it's 2 X 11 letters
+<Bagder>        but there should be room for some icons too, I think
+-->     linuxstb (dave@dsl-212-23-31-215.zen.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        I'm not really good on the player lcd
+<Bagder>        hey Dave
+<linuxstb>      Hello everyone.
+<adiamas>       k.. then ill leave it for tomorrow.. i need sleep bad...
+<adiamas>       night all
+<Linus> Hi!
+<adiamas>       welcome dave
+<Bagder>        night adiamas
+*       adiamas waves
+---     You are now known as adi|sleep
+<calpefrosch>   Zagor: my ID is 536571
+<Zagor> I need the username
+<calpefrosch>   calpefrosch
+<calpefrosch>   what else ;-)
+<Zagor> :)
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<Zagor> now you're added. and Dave, you've been added too.
+<linuxstb>      Thanks.  I plan to work on the directory browsing a little more today - mainly to implement scrolling.
+<Bagder>        goodie
+<Zagor> nice
+<Bagder>        it _is_ a bit limited right now, indeed ;-)
+<calpefrosch>   tnx
+<linuxstb>      Has anyone thought about an API for actually playing audio files?
+<Bagder>        linuxstb: we'll change the is_dir() stuff to instead use the dirent struct as soon as we know how Zagor will feature the atrributes
+<linuxstb>      Agreed about is_dir() - that was just a quick hack by me.
+<Bagder>        oh sure, it works fine for now
+<Zagor> linuxstb: not yet. it'll be something simple, since the playing is handled by DMA and a "feed" thread
+<linuxstb>      I have a little experience of using libmad, so would like to implement mp3 playing in the simulator.
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Zagor> sure
+<calpefrosch>   Zagor: can you help me with the setup of cvs?
+<Zagor> Linus: you should add the timer interrupt code to the main firmware dir. we need to use sleep()
+<Zagor> calpefrosch: not for wincvs, I'm afraid. follow the wincvs link on the cvs info page.
+<calpefrosch>   ok
+<Linus> It's in kernel.c
+<Zagor> Linus: yes, but it's not started
+<Linus> kernel_init()
+<Zagor> ok, good
+<Linus> You will have to lower the interrupt mask with set_irq_level(0) after kernel_init()
+<Linus> And I use system.c for the interrupt vectors
+<Zagor> so the current system.c is good?
+<Linus> Works for me
+<Zagor> ok
+<Linus> Actually, it's quite handy with the weak symbols when developing
+<Zagor> blaeh
+<Zagor> :)
+Linus linuxstb <Linus>  That way I don't need my own system.c in every test directory
+---     Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|pizza
+<Bagder>        wow pizza
+*       Bagder starts to get hungry too
+<linuxstb>      Re MP3 api: I think we need a "play queue" in memory of the filenames of the next 3 or 4 tracks to play.  The MP3 thread "just" plays files from this queue, and the UI thread modifies it.
+<Bagder>        or perhaps the mp3-playing thread have direct-access to the playlist/queue we work on
+<linuxstb>      What is the difference?
+<Bagder>        I'm just thinking what happens when you select "back"
+<Bagder>        if the mp3-thread can peek in the list, it just picks the previos tune and plays it
+<Bagder>        if we'd feed the thread with a special queue to play, we'd need to take care of special situations 
+<linuxstb>      I would like a simple MP3 thread that is independent of the way songs are selected.
+<Bagder>        off for lunch
+---     Bagder is now known as Bagder|eats
+<linuxstb>      I was thinking what information the MP3 thread needed, and the minimum is just the next n tracks - enough to keep the play buffer full.
+<PsycoXul>      play buffer full?
+<PsycoXul>      how much ram do the recorders have? more than 2MB?
+<calpefrosch>   Bagder: Do you know why I always get this message: cvs [server aborted]: "commit" requires write access to the repository
+<calpefrosch>   if I want to commit?
+<Linus|pizza>   The cvs server has a list of people with commit access, which I assume you are not yet part of.
+---     Linus|pizza is now known as Linus
+<calpefrosch>   Zagor wanted to put me on the list
+<Linus> Zagor tells me that you have checked out anonymously. You have to check out everything -ext
+<Linus> but backup the entire tree first. :-)
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs03v-1-73.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<calpefrosch>   ahhh, tnx
+<Linus> Yo alan!
+<alkorr>        yo Linus, not eating ?
+<Linus> full of pizza right now
+<alkorr>        lol
+<alkorr>        well it's time i have all commited
+<--     Zagor|lunch (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<alkorr>        see you later
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     alkorr has quit (Client Quit)
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<--     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Bagder|eats is now known as Bagder
+<calpefrosch>   Bagder: I'm just commiting the win32-sim, I hope it is everything ok
+<Bagder>        cool
+<Linus> calpefrosch: Why both logf() and debugf()
+<calpefrosch>   logf was missing. I don't know where it should be...
+<calpefrosch>   where is it in X11 ?
+<Bagder>        I think it should use debugf() instead
+<Linus> My question was, why do we need two functions for the same thing?
+<Bagder>        or
+<Bagder>        do they?
+<Bagder>        it isn't really clear to me what debugf() does in the simulator
+<Linus> The simulator doesn't have a console?
+<Bagder>        I think so
+<Bagder>        but what's mem2hex and putpacket ?
+<calpefrosch>   hmmm, they use logf e.g. in play.c and the debugf in playlist.c
+<Linus> Strange.
+<calpefrosch>   if I start the simulator in VC++ I get a console output...
+<Bagder>        and the simulator don't set DEBUG either, not now at least
+<Linus> Bagder: those functions are for GDB communication
+<Bagder>        so what does debugf() do when used in the simulator?
+<Linus> Whatever you, the simulator writer, wants it to. Preferably write to a console.
+<Bagder>        sure, but it doesn't do that now, does it?
+<calpefrosch>   I'm sorry, but unfortunately I have to do "real" work now. :-(
+<calpefrosch>   see you later
+<Bagder>        oh
+<Linus> Bagder: I guess not.
+<Bagder>        there are two implementatins
+*       calpefrosch is going to work
+<Bagder>        see ya calpefrosch
+<Linus> CU!
+---     calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|work
+<Bagder>        Linus: do you use the DEBUG define for anything when you build your stuff?
+<Linus> No, not that I can remember.
+<Bagder>        ok
+<Linus> I think that debug.c could contain code for all platforms.
+<Bagder>        I think so too
+<Bagder>        I'll make it 
+<Linus> Or is it kludgy?
+<Bagder>        debug() it is
+<Bagder>        debugf() even
+<Linus> Greato!
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+*       Bagder got no post-lunch coffe, the machine is broken. aaaaaah!
+*       Zagor is fetching his third after-lunch coffee :)
+*       Bagder hears that someone has fixed the machine and ruuuuuuns
+<Bagder>        turned out to be a rumour, had to walk down some stairs to get a cup
+<calpefrosch|work>      I thought you (zagor and Bagder) are working in the same company...
+<Bagder>        we're consultants, so we're hired to different customers
+<Linus> In fact, I and Zagor are at the same customer right now.
+<calpefrosch|work>      aha, I see. We are also working together with some consultants
+<Bagder>        so we don't actually meet in person that often
+<Bagder>        Zagor: thanks for the atributes, I'll try to make the simulator use them tonight or so
+<Zagor> nice
+<calpefrosch|work>      I make a scrolling feature for the simulator
+<calpefrosch|work>      Should I check in ?
+<Bagder>        scrolling feature?
+<calpefrosch|work>      scrolling thru the dir...
+<Linus> And I'll just go and kill myself. I HATE THAT F***ING MAS DEMAND PIN!
+<calpefrosch|work>      Linus: what's the problem ? you can tell me, I listen to you :-)
+<Linus> The problem is that the Demand pin on the MAS is going up and down like mad in the beginning of a song.
+<Linus> And the Player only generates an interrupt when the signal goes low
+<Linus> so I have to poll it to find out when it goes high
+<Linus> very often...
+<calpefrosch|work>      too often...
+<Linus> indeed
+<calpefrosch|work>      -o
+<calpefrosch|work>      where is the input-pin at the SH1 ?
+<Linus> The Archos firmware initialization bears some evidence of them using a timer to start the DMA. I may have to disassemble it to see what it does.
+<Linus> It's on IRQ6
+<Bagder>        gotta go, might pop by later
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<Linus> CU!
+<calpefrosch|work>      I would like to commit tree.c with the changed scrolling. Can anybody test it with X11 ?
+<linuxstb>      Yes - I can check tree.c with X11.  mailto dave@dchapman.com
+-->     wavey (~wavey@host-54.valtech.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> i'm off. see you!
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<wavey> linus: congrats with the mas :)
+<Linus> Thanks
+<Linus> But it is really hard to write a driver for it that doesn't hog the CPU...
+---     coyote- is now known as Tumm
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     edx (~edx@pD9EAB563.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     wavey has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<linuxstb>      Is there a maximum number of files/subdirs in a directory for FAT32?  Is the root directory different?
+<calpefrosch|work>      linuxstb: It's working perfectly...
+<calpefrosch|work>      please commit the changes. Maybe it would be too slow at long dirs, because we search everytime from the beginning. 
+<linuxstb>      We need to read the whole directory into memory for two reasons - caching and sorting
+<linuxstb>      OK - I'll commit the new scrolling tree.c
+<calpefrosch|work>      tnx
+---     calpefrosch|work is now known as calpefrosch|away
+<linuxstb>      new tree.c committed
+<--     calpefrosch|away (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has left #Rockbox
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     calpefrosch (calpefrosc@p5082C6D8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> yo
+<calpefrosch>   yo, brb
+---     calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|brb
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|away
+---     lou_soyur is now known as adi|work
+<--     edx has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<--     calpefrosch|brb has quit ()
+<--     linuxstb has quit ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.0")
+---     Linus|away is now known as Linus
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     calpefrosch|away (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has joined #rockbox
+<calpefrosch|away>      morning bagder
+---     calpefrosch|away is now known as calpefrosch
+<calpefrosch>   morning all 
+<Bagder>        morning
+---     calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|away
+---     ChanServ gives channel operator status to Bagder
+---     You are now known as adiamas
+<Bagder>        hi adiamas
+---     ChanServ gives channel operator status to adiamas
+<adiamas>       hey Bagder
+<adiamas>       guess what?
+<Bagder>        tic tac toe rocks? ;-)
+<adiamas>       hehe not yet
+<adiamas>       but...
+---     adiamas removes channel operator status from Bagder
+<adiamas>       hehehehe
+---     adiamas gives channel operator status to Bagder
+<adiamas>       just felt like being silly
+<Bagder>        :-)
+*       Bagder walks away to check if the coffee machine works today
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        morning Linus
+<Linus> mooning
+<Linus> :-)
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Zagor> hey all
+<Linus> The feeding of the MAS with DMA works splendidly!
+<Bagder>        you rock Linus
+<Linus> I do!
+<Linus> :-)
+<Linus> But I think those Archos guys save a penny too much when designing the hardware
+<Linus> saved
+<Bagder>        any ata/fat32 mp3-reading in sight?
+<Linus> Zagor "I Have A Life" Stenberg is lazy
+<Linus> I suggest we replace him
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Bagder>        maybe we can just yell at him a lot until he improves?
+*       Linus screams at Zagor!
+<adiamas>       Linus why do you say that about the archos guys>
+<PsycoXul>      just look at the player's LCD
+<PsycoXul>      i mean come on i saw wristwatches 5 years ago far cheaper with more flexible displays :p
+*       Bagder added common/strtok.c
+<Linus> adiamas: I say that because they haven't connected the inverted demand pin to an IRQ
+<Linus> so I have to poll the damn thing ever millisecond
+<Linus> every
+<adiamas>       okay.. im very much not a hardware guy, so what is an 'inverted demand' pin?
+-->     wavey (~wavey@host-54.valtech.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        wavey the man!
+<wavey> howdy :)
+*       wavey been gamecubing all weekend ;)
+<Bagder>        hehehe
+<Bagder>        I hope you don't mind me messing in your code in the mean time ;-)
+<wavey> no problem :)
+<adiamas>       okay, ill ask..
+<wavey> bbl
+<adiamas>       why did we have to rewrite strtok?
+*       wavey waves
+<adiamas>       i know there is a recursive one...
+<Bagder>        wavey: I made the randomiser a lot faster, I changed the read-indices function and I made your test program build and run on my linux
+<Bagder>        adiamas: because strtok() stores data in a static area
+<adiamas>       Bagder i know..
+<adiamas>       but there is a strtok_r already writen
+<Bagder>        in newlib?
+<adiamas>       its part of the standard library
+<adiamas>       in new lib.. that i don't know :)
+<Bagder>        strtok_r() is not standard unfortunately
+<Bagder>        that's why I have that code written in the first place ;-)
+<adiamas>       thats why i asked :)
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<Zagor> newlib's strtok_r uses a thread context
+<Zagor> so bagder's is better
+<Zagor> Bagder: why are you including both stddef.h and string.h in strtok?
+<Bagder>        good q, remove the stddef.h
+<Bagder>        it was just ripped out from my curl sources
+<--     wavey has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<Linus> I think the thread context is a good thing. Why is it bad?
+<Zagor> it's unnecessary
+<Bagder>        how does it manage "thread context" ?
+<Linus> The context switcher (thread.c) assigns a new "current" pointer when it switches context
+<Linus> All newlib functions with static data stores data in the struct pointed by "current" (or whatever it is called
+<Bagder>        ok, thanks
+<Zagor> ...which means: a) we have to init newlib for each thread and b) we have to swap newlib context
+<Bagder>        doesn't it store errno there too?
+<Linus> Yes it does
+<Linus> Zagor: yes
+<Bagder>        so we'd need to watch out for that
+<Linus> Indeed
+<Zagor> errno is not as much a problem, since we're unlikely to call a newlib function, yield, and then look at errno
+<Linus> The called function itself may yield, however
+<Bagder>        possibly, I was more thinking about that it stores errno relative the current and thus it needs to be somewhat correct
+<Zagor> Linus: no
+<Zagor> no newlib functions call yield()
+<Linus> True
+<adiamas>       umm... the chars shown in the char maps on the web site... how can i use those?
+<Zagor> this falls into the "neat but not immediately neccessary" category
+<Bagder>        adiamas: the player chars?
+<adiamas>       yeah.
+<Zagor> just display them
+<adiamas>       ummmm how?
+<Zagor> lcd_puts() ?
+<Bagder>        we need to convert them to our iternal format
+<Bagder>        lcd_puts() is still using Gary's fonts
+<adiamas>       well, not just chars
+<Bagder>        even for player simul
+<adiamas>       i feel like playing with sliders
+<Zagor> ah, you are talking about the simulators
+<adiamas>       for volume control...
+<Bagder>        ...we should add two mini icons for tracks and dirs for the dir browser on the recorder
+<adiamas>       huh?
+<Bagder>        browse a dir with your recorder
+<Bagder>        whatch the little icons to the left of each row
+<adiamas>       got ya...
+<adiamas>       that's what im trying to figure out.. how to get stuff like that form the map
+<Bagder>        currently, we'll have to add the hex-data manually for new widgets ;-)
+<adiamas>       ack...
+<adiamas>       the chartables.c file in firmware.. what does that cover again?
+<Bagder>        fonts
+<Bagder>        the three different fonts
+<adiamas>       only fonts?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        Gary's code package had a widget.c file with some additional ones
+<adiamas>       yeah.. going to look at that now
+<Bagder>        btw, including the simulators, we now have 14341 lines of source code in the CVS ;-)
+<adiamas>       hehe cool
+<adiamas>       one more time.. what was the command to remove extra cr-lf?
+<Bagder>        tr -d '\015' < infile > outfile
+<adiamas>       ty
+<adiamas>       does lcd_bitmap work?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        lcd_puts() uses it extensively
+<adiamas>       k
+<Zagor> wasn't there a size limit?
+<Bagder>        ah yes
+<Bagder>        it only handles 16 pixels height, I believe
+<adiamas>       holy christ.. finally got this working and the thing is huge :)
+-->     wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+---     Bagder is now known as Bagder|eats
+<--     Bagder|eats has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+*       Bagder fixes the simulated readdir() to return a dirent struct as the common/dir.h defines
+<Linus> Rockers
+<Linus> But maybe it should be the other way around?
+<Bagder>        ?
+<Bagder>        you mean that the target readdir() should return a struct as the unixes use?
+<Linus> Exactly
+<Bagder>        first off, the dirent struct seems to be different on various systems, but it also contains lots of crap we will never need/use
+<Linus> OK. Just a thought
+<Bagder>        yes, would've made simulation easier ;-)
+<Linus> hehe. I think the target code should be the easy one...
+<Bagder>        now, shall I make the code use this new stuff and thus break the win32 simulator? B-]
+<Linus> Of course. :-)
+<Linus> We donn't want no stinkin' windows!
+<Bagder>        since they don't even have a native readdir(), this change is possibly even easier for them
+<Linus> Probably.
+<Bagder>        gah, it broke on Solaris
+<Bagder>        dirent is a pretty silly struct
+<Bagder>        only one field is POSIX
+<Zagor> yes
+<Zagor> i want to avoid stat()
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        I'll have the simulator use stat ;-)
+<Zagor> yes
+<Bagder>        could've even make both Linux and Solaris use the same dirent code so I'll write my own instead
+<Bagder>        couldn't
+*       Bagder gets all confused in his head with this
+<Zagor> get more coffee :)
+<Bagder>        good idea!
+*       Bagder bangs his head and runs for coffee
+<Bagder>        ah, much better
+<Bagder>        found problem
+<Bagder>        phew
+<Bagder>        seems to work now on both Linux and Solaris
+<Zagor> nicers
+<Bagder>        made the tree.c code use it and it worked too
+-->     jb1081 (~jb1081@lime.ircam.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> Hi jb!
+<jb1081>        Hi
+<jb1081>        Do you know if there's some hardware differences between 6000 & 5000 (got a 5000 few weeks ago)
+<jb1081>        ?
+<Bagder>        a 5000!
+<Zagor> seems to be only a smaller disk
+<Bagder>        does that have 5GB disk`?
+<jb1081>        Bagder: yep
+<Bagder>        odd
+<Zagor> jb1081: where did you buy it?
+<Bagder>        I mean, that they have two products that similar
+<jb1081>        Zagor: Europe (France)
+<Zagor> ok. it's a bit odd that they don't mention it on their web page. i've heard people on the us get them too
+<jb1081>        firmware release 5.08, not listed in archos website (last time I checked at least)
+<jb1081>        but the led & scroll mod works
+<Zagor> yes I think it's the exact same hardware but a cheaper disk
+<Zagor> how much price difference was it btwn the 5000 and 6000, do you know?
+<jb1081>        6000 discontinued here, I think
+<jb1081>        5000: 180 euro
+<Bagder>        180 euro is quite a good price imho
+<Zagor> yes
+<jb1081>        found in general distribution (food...) supermarket
+<Zagor> !
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        one cheese, two packets of milk and one archos please ;-)
+<jb1081>        :)
+<jb1081>        oh, does the 6000 (5000 is the same, I presume) have the remote control pin in the headphone jack?
+<Zagor> yes
+<jb1081>        cool. Do you plan to use it?
+<Zagor> sure, we'll use it just like today; for remote control
+<Zagor> we also use it as a serial port for debugging
+<jb1081>        ok, I was thinking you use serial port by hardware mod to line in jack
+<Zagor> yes, that's because the headphone jack only has the "receive" pin
+<jb1081>        sure
+<Zagor> we need both receive and transmit for debugging
+<Zagor> but it's the same serial port
+<jb1081>        ok
+<jb1081>        it's 9600? TTL?
+<Zagor> yes
+<jb1081>        just thinking about using an old pc keyboard controller to build a remote
+<jb1081>        but it need a clock, no?
+<Zagor> yeah, we've been thinking that too. adding a keyboard would be cool! :)
+<Zagor> it's asynchronous rs232 so it doesn't need a clock pin
+<jb1081>        yep, but a pc keyboard is synchronous, if I remember correctly
+<Zagor> oh, ok
+<jb1081>        "The frequency of the clock signal typically ranges from 20 to 30 Khz".. :(
+<jb1081>        ok, not with a broken kbd.. too bad
+<Linus> The serial port can use an external clock as well.
+<Linus> synchronous
+<Zagor> yes but then we need to modify the hardware
+<jb1081>        yes, but we have to open the box..
+<jb1081>        a broken serial mouse perhaps?
+<Linus> Yup. Otherwise you have to build a separate kbd->rs232 converter
+<Linus> I guess you can get one off-the-shelf actually
+<jb1081>        did you see this somewhere (at a resonable price?)
+<Linus> i can't remember seeing any in recent years, no :-)
+<PsycoXul>      kbd->rs232?
+<PsycoXul>      you mean a ps2->serial adapter?
+<jb1081>        ok.. :( btw what headphone do you use? somebody tried a in-ear phone?
+<jb1081>        PsycoXul: I understood a complete remote, but I doubt now.. 
+<Zagor> yes, I use the Sony EX70. they are *GREAT*
+<Bagder>        oh no, don't get him started on those again ;*)
+<jb1081>        Zagor: ok, I was not sure between ex70 et Koss The Plug, it difficult to ear it before buying here
+<jb1081>        it's
+<jb1081>        Bagder: oups, I should'nt?
+<Zagor> Bagder: hehe
+<Linus> PsycoXul: Yes, a PS/2 to RS232 adapter
+<jb1081>        Zagor: the phone amp has no problem to drive the EX70 properly?
+<Zagor> jb1081: no, quite the opposite...
+<PsycoXul>      Linus: i've got a couple of those laying around i think ... heh
+<PsycoXul>      they're still out there places i'm pretty sure
+<Linus> Do you know where to biy one?
+<Linus> buy
+<PsycoXul>      the ones i've got came with mice/keyboards a couple years ago i think
+<Linus> Oh
+<PsycoXul>      look on ebay, computer stores, google heh
+<jb1081>        found one but a little too big.. :) http://www.iptel-now.de/HOWTO/PS2SER/ps2ser.html
+---     calpefrosch|away is now known as calpefrosch
+<calpefrosch>   hi, just read the lines of today...
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        I just posted to the list too about it
+<calpefrosch>   and I saw some stuff like "stinkin windows" ;-)
+*       Bagder points at Linus and looks innocent
+<calpefrosch>   so, I think I#ll have to fix the win32 sim ?
+<Bagder>        yeps
+<Bagder>        should be pretty easily done
+<calpefrosch>   yes, but I have not much time the next days. 
+*       calpefrosch looks out in the sun
+*       Zagor spots another have-a-lifer :)
+<calpefrosch>   hehe
+<Bagder>        we got a mail from another volountary win32 hacker just yesterday... :-)
+<calpefrosch>   who?
+<Bagder>        eh, "Christian" ;-)
+<Bagder>        Zagor: you replied to him yet?
+<Zagor> not yet
+<calpefrosch>   cool. maybe I'll look at the code tomorrow. what do you think about the "scrolling" ? Is it usefull?
+<Bagder>        we need scrolling
+<Bagder>        I haven't tried it yet though ;-)
+<calpefrosch>   isn't there a scrolling bar at the archos firmware? 
+<Bagder>        yes there is
+<Bagder>        on the left side
+<calpefrosch>   mhhh, so we have to scan the dir first to see how much is in there
+<Bagder>        I bet people will want one of those
+<Bagder>        I'm afraid we'd need to do that, yes
+<calpefrosch>   ok, we have a works meeting now. cu
+<Bagder>        see ya
+<Linus> cu!
+<--     calpefrosch has quit ("bin bals zurück")
+<Bagder>        bin bals? ;-)
+*       Bagder is gonna pretend he has a life now!
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     chris1 (~flanz@62.132.155.14) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> hi chris!
+<chris1>        Björn by sourcfor. name is "flanz"
+<Zagor> ok
+-->     elinenbe (~chatzilla@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<elinenbe>      hello there.
+<Zagor> chris1: you're addded
+<chris1>        the ata-sim code will only work on Images on disk, I want to add support to read realtime the Sectors from the Archos HD in the UISimulator
+<Zagor> hi elinenbe
+<Zagor> chris1: we already do that.
+<Zagor> look at ata-sim.c in test/ata
+<--     elinenbe has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     elinenbe (~chatzilla@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> chris1: but it's not really useful for the simulator, since it will use high-level APIs for all disk operations
+<chris1>        this line "file=fopen("disk.img","r+");" say me , the code work on a pre create disk image.
+<Zagor> yes
+<Zagor> I copy data from a real FAT32 disk into a image file and then use it for testing
+<chris1>        ok your a right. With the image your need not to connect the RockBox to the USB port while the debuging session :)
+<elinenbe>      how is the progress coming?
+<Zagor> the MAS DMA code is coming along, although it will not be as pretty as we hoped
+<Zagor> the ATA code is bugging, and I'm trying to figure out why
+<Zagor> and right now I'm writing open/close/read for basic file access
+<elinenbe>      blah pretty... shmitty... who needs pretty code?
+<Zagor> well it's not just the code, more the design. we'll need to poll a pin every millisecond. we hoped to be able to get an interrupt for that instead
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> but it's not a major problem, just a nuicance
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Zagor> bleh, my brain hurts. read() gets too complex.
+<Bagder>        drink coffee! ;-)
+*       Bagder returns an advice ;-)
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Bagder>        I'll go and make food now, see ya
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor_>        strange happenings...
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<chris1>        ok here in Berlin/EU  is al lite release party inhouse.I have to go. 
+<--     chris1 has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+<Zagor> i'm off. see you later.
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     calpefrosch|away (calpefrosc@p5082C815.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #rockbox
+<elinenbe>      hello
+<--     wavey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+-->     wavey (~wavey@host-54.valtech.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+---     ChanServ removes channel operator status from adiamas
+<--     Zagor has quit ("bye")
+<--     wavey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+-->     wavey (~wavey@host-54.valtech.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<--     elinenbe has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.6 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0+/20020507]")
+<--     calpefrosch|away has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<--     wavey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        evening
+<adi|work>      afternoon :)
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<Linus> moo
+*       Bagder scrolls in the directory browser... wooo ;-)
+-->     quiquee (~quique@217.8.197.89) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        hey
+<quiquee>       hello everyone
+<Bagder>        its a silent period in here right now
+---     quiquee is now known as wannabeuihacker
+*       Bagder giggles
+<wannabeuihacker>       I have seen that the menu stuff assumes complete separation of player and recorder
+<Bagder>        yes, but I did that mainly to get a player version that compiled and built
+<Bagder>        for the simulator that is
+<wannabeuihacker>       I added the menu functions and got a menu system for the player
+<Bagder>        cool
+<wannabeuihacker>       mostly copy and paste
+<wannabeuihacker>       I guess it is the best solution for now
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        we'll see if we can merge stuff later on or if we'll keep them apart
+<wannabeuihacker>       but the button right of the player is not working, any clue why ?
+<wannabeuihacker>       I mean , when using the simulator
+<Bagder>        the x11 one?
+<wannabeuihacker>       yep
+<Bagder>        weird, it should work
+<Bagder>        when you get your code in, I can have a look
+<wannabeuihacker>       I am trying to find out , how do I flush printf output ?
+<Bagder>        fflush()
+<wannabeuihacker>       ok I am doing something wrong then. 
+<wannabeuihacker>       right button works
+<wannabeuihacker>       my code doesn't
+<Bagder>        heh
+<wannabeuihacker>       fflush cores :? anyway
+<wannabeuihacker>       I am trying to get used again to emacs and c
+<Bagder>        fflush(stdout); it should be
+<wannabeuihacker>       hmm , thanks.
+<Bagder>        or whatever stream you wanna flushs
+<wannabeuihacker>       I didnt use it for 6 years now
+<Bagder>        this is a perfect way to get back in shape ;-)
+<wannabeuihacker>       do you use emacs ? would you happen to know how was to run make withing emacs without a need to open a shell buffer ?
+<adi|work>      yeah...
+<Bagder>        M-x compile
+<wannabeuihacker>       shit , I thought it couldnt be that easy
+<adi|work>      meta-s is a common bind for it...
+<Bagder>        M-x global-set-key ;-)
+<wannabeuihacker>       ok , it insists in running make from the ./uisimulator
+<wannabeuihacker>       it would be a good idea to add a Makefile there
+<Bagder>        right, it runs from the dir of the buffer you start it from
+<wannabeuihacker>       I will have to read again the gdb info 
+-wannabeuihacker/#rockbox-      panics
+*       Bagder tries to paint a little icon for the files in the dir browser
+<Bagder>        unfortunately, gimp doesn't output our format natively ;-)
+<wannabeuihacker>       ok, it is working
+<wannabeuihacker>       I plan to create a menu structure that is read in the future from an external file
+<wannabeuihacker>       so people can customize it to whatever they want
+<wannabeuihacker>       just an idea to start playing with it
+<wannabeuihacker>       no plans to add an xml parser in the firmware, right ? ;)
+<Bagder>        I don't think that'll be necessary, but we'll see
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<wannabeuihacker>       I am having a lot of fun with this, an excuse to go back to the roots. Thank you guys
+<Bagder>        I think I speak for most of us when I say that we enjoy this a lot too
+<wannabeuihacker>       it is contagious .
+<wannabeuihacker>       going to have a nap now. cu soon
+<Bagder>        see ya
+<Linus> The ATA code sure is full of bugs...I'm killing them by the dozen...:-)
+*       Bagder hands Linus the fly squasher
+<Linus> How can you do sleep(HZ/500) when HZ is only 100???? :-O
+<Bagder>        haha
+<Bagder>        short sleep ;-)
+<Linus> And it's full of return -1 for error
+<Linus> when the code checks for 0
+<adi|work>      heheheh
+<Linus> Well, it's starting to work now. I've read the boot sector.
+<Bagder>        on target?
+<Linus> Yup
+<Bagder>        rock
+<Linus> I wish Zagor was on the channel.
+<Bagder>        hm, I think I have a little perl script now that can "fix" an xbm as saved by gimp, to become "rockbox" formatted
+<Linus> bango!
+<Bagder>        heh
+<Bagder>        works
+<Bagder>        now, what does a symbol for a directory look like? ;-)
+<Linus> Go figure
+<Linus> disk_init() finds the correct root partition now.
+<Linus> but readdir() fails miserably...
+*       Bagder commtted his little icons
+<Linus> linus = sleep(until(6am));
+<Linus> bye
+<Bagder>        night
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     jb1081 has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
+*       adiamas pokes you all in the forehead
+<miah>  ouch
+<adiamas>       wuss
+<miah>  yea
+<miah>  im a wuss
+<adiamas>       has anyone figured out why the remote does not work with the recorder?
+-->     calpefrosch (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has joined #Rockbox
+<calpefrosch>   morning
+<adiamas>       evening :)
+<calpefrosch>   oh
+<calpefrosch>   had a nice day ? ;-)
+<adiamas>       heheheh quiet so far...
+<adiamas>       but im on call till 0700... so ill tell you tomorrow :)
+<calpefrosch>   it's tuesday on your side, right ?
+*       calpefrosch goes for breakfast
+---     calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|eats
+<adiamas>       yeah... its actually wends now.
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        hey ho
+<--     wannabeuihacker has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+-->     wannabeuihacker (~quique@217.8.197.187) has joined #rockbox
+<--     PsycoXul has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     PsycoXul (psyco@adsl-63-205-40-140.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+<calpefrosch|eats>      hey Bagder
+---     calpefrosch|eats is now known as calpefrosch
+<Bagder>        mornning calpe
+<calpefrosch>   The sim is running, where has it changed ?
+<calpefrosch>   ahh, I have to fill the attribute
+<Bagder>        exactly
+<Bagder>        and size too preferably
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        howdy Zagor_
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Zagor> i'm puzzled by linus' ata changes. they don't work for me
+<Bagder>        odd
+<Bagder>        he said he had a few problems
+<Bagder>        but he could read a few things on target
+<Zagor> i guess he'll arrive soon
+<Bagder>        yeah, he got to bed early :-P
+<Bagder>        surely before 1 am...
+<Zagor> normally, I'd boo him too :)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        I kinda like being the one who says good night when he leaves and good morning when he arrives back again ;-)
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Bagder>        btw, we probably will end up needing a malloc() sooner or later, don't we?
+<Zagor> yes
+<Bagder>        I thought I'd have a go at that
+<Zagor> we get a malloc with newlib, if only we supply sbrk(). but I like your malloc, so go ahead :)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        uh
+<Bagder>        wannabeuihacker has a little menu app written for the player now
+<Bagder>        he said yesterday
+<Zagor> ah, cool
+<Bagder>        calpefrosch: any plans on making the win32 simulator work as a Player?
+*       Bagder runs for more coffee
+<calpefrosch>   ok, sim is fixed.
+<Bagder>        ain't my icons beautiful? ;-)
+<calpefrosch>   I love it
+<calpefrosch>   Bagder: yeah, I can try to made a player. But, as you know, I'm not good in VC++
+<calpefrosch>   It would last a bit
+<Bagder>        well, maybe some of the other guys could help out on that part too
+<calpefrosch>   yes. Another question...
+<calpefrosch>   I get an error in id3.c that header is not initialized
+<Bagder>        which line?
+<calpefrosch>   351
+<Bagder>        that's a good warning
+<Bagder>        it should be set to 0
+<calpefrosch>   do you commit in cvs ?
+<Bagder>        I'll do it, I fixed another thing too
+<adiamas>       Bagder what is is the menu app that wannabeuihacker worked on .. do you know?
+<Bagder>        it's written specificly for the player, that's about all I know
+<Bagder>        the one we have now is recorder-specific
+<adiamas>       nod
+<adiamas>       btw.. bagder.. perhaps its time to start getting togeather an icons.h file?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<adiamas>       where did you put your icons?
+<Bagder>        both a icons.c and an icons.h
+<Bagder>        it's in the tree.c file
+<Bagder>        they're
+<adiamas>       im adding icons.h right now.
+<Bagder>        feel free to give my icons better names
+<adiamas>       should we rename "fileimage" to  "fileicon" ?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<adiamas>       those are 6x8 right?
+*       Bagder nods
+<adiamas>       will the player use icons?
+<Bagder>        it a limited extent
+<Bagder>        in a
+<adiamas>       okay...
+<adiamas>       just wondering if i was going to #defin around it
+<Bagder>        but hardly the same ones
+<adiamas>       nods
+<adiamas>       anyone have an issue with the function name "get_6x8_bitmap_icon"
+<adiamas>       or would you rather refernce the array directly?
+<Bagder>        I prefer referencing the array directly
+<Bagder>        no reduce all overhead
+<Bagder>        to reduce
+<adiamas>       that case.. any prob is all 6x8 icons are in an array with the subscripts as enums?
+<Bagder>        Dave posted a good idea
+<adiamas>       haveing X # of icons is annoying...
+<adiamas>       havn'et seen it yet
+<adiamas>       which part of the idea did you like?
+<Bagder>        storing short names in memory
+<adiamas>       well.. i don't know if i agree with his "just 16 chars"
+<adiamas>       and the short name... dunno if i like that either.
+<Bagder>        why not?
+<adiamas>       i store my mp3s as "artist - song name.mp3"
+<Bagder>        it's a memory internal thing
+<adiamas>       so, stuff like "Les miserable - Curtan call" or whatever.. it doesn't help me on the dir listing
+<Bagder>        right, but we haven't solved that issue yet
+<adiamas>       right...
+<adiamas>       i guess i just don't get what his suggestion is attempting to solve
+<Bagder>        I'd prefer having a way to strip off the current directory's name from the local files or something
+<Bagder>        you need to check the tree.c source to see what is aiming at ;-)
+<Bagder>        what he is
+<Bagder>        it currently stores the full names in memory
+<Bagder>        and displays the 16 first letters
+<adiamas>       i agree that we strip the dir structure..t hat just makes sense...
+<adiamas>       but limiting the filename that cane be displayed.. dunno if i agree with that.
+<Bagder>        thus, the displaying and the storing in memory are two parts
+<adiamas>       If so, the buffer in tree.c just needs to 
+<adiamas>       store the short name (for accessing the file) and the first 16 characters of 
+<adiamas>       the full name (for display on the screen).
+<adiamas>       16 chars is _not_ enough space for display
+<adiamas>       thats what im getting at
+<Bagder>        I get it
+<Bagder>        but the full name shouldn't be needed either in all cases
+-->     wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<adiamas>       anything internal.. hell we index however we want..
+<adiamas>       then when do you get it?
+<adiamas>       if not when you do a dir listing?
+<Bagder>        the full name stored for diplaying doesn't need to be the full file name
+<Bagder>        it could be modified to look better
+<adiamas>       define "look better"
+<Bagder>        stripping off  redundant parts for example
+<adiamas>       but "Beat on the brat.mp3"
+<adiamas>       is good..
+<adiamas>       that i agree..
+<Bagder>        like I have "artist/artist - tune 1.mp3"
+<adiamas>       but if you stop me from displaying my file "Les Miserables - Javier at the gates of the city.mp3", ill slap you silly
+<adiamas>       :)
+<Bagder>        then showing the dir in 'artisy' could cut off 'artist -' for me
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        well
+<Bagder>        you still can't show that full length on each line
+<adiamas>       i agree.. any directory struct stuff should not be shown
+<adiamas>       sure you can.. it's called scroll :)
+<Bagder>        you wanna scroll all lines?
+<adiamas>       no.. only current selected line.. as you page through...
+<Bagder>        right
+<adiamas>       but if you only get the ful name when you cursor over it...
+<Bagder>        but then you don't need to store the full name in memory
+<adiamas>       you are going to be spinning up and down the drive constantly
+<adiamas>       sure you do
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Bagder>        true
+<adiamas>       now.. we can make alterations.. say.. ".mp3" can be dropped..
+<adiamas>       and all directory structure...
+<adiamas>       that i fully agree..
+<adiamas>       oh.. and another suggestion.. you should not be able to try and play _non_ mp3 files
+<adiamas>       i use my archos for data backup as well.. and my gf tried to 'play' "Oracle8"
+<adiamas>       hehehe
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<adiamas>       play didn't like that much
+<Bagder>        was it good? ;-P
+<adiamas>       id rather display "Not an mp3" or something when you select it...
+<adiamas>       and it's easy enough a check to do when you select a file to play
+<adiamas>       Bagder wanna do me a favor?
+<Bagder>        sure
+<adiamas>       could i mail you this icons.h and tree.c for the uisim.. 
+<adiamas>       let me know if the idea makes sense?
+<adiamas>       it works.. just dont wanna set bad precident
+<Bagder>        sure, fire away
+<adiamas>       so no reasont to check it in
+<PsycoXul>      i think it should do something specific to the filetype whenever it can, even if its something simple, and some simple thing for whatever unknown things
+<PsycoXul>      eg you "play" a text file it shows it to you
+<Bagder>        and if you play a HTML file ... *g*
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+*       Bagder grins
+<PsycoXul>      yes so when are we getting the modem driver for the serial port?
+<adiamas>       lol
+<Bagder>        uh, that'll be after I'm done with the apache port
+<PsycoXul>      hehe
+<adiamas>       bag, sent
+<Bagder>        gotem
+*       adiamas thinks you should all read quesiton # 17 on the FAQ
+<Bagder>        adiamas: I like that approach, I only have some nits
+<PsycoXul>      oh yeah btw
+<PsycoXul>      Q18. I don't see you mentioning ogg files on your list of ideas.  What about
+<PsycoXul>           supporting those?
+<PsycoXul>      that question kinda seems odd when right within the same page you can see
+<PsycoXul>      - Support playing of other files types (ie: Ogg Vorbis support)
+<PsycoXul>      in said list of ideas
+<Bagder>        adiamas: the array should be in the icons.c file, and the icons.h should have the enums and the array "extern"
+<adiamas>       well.. thats why i was planning on having the calling function to get the array
+<adiamas>       having externs all over the place is nasty
+<adiamas>       but thats just my opinion...
+<adiamas>       ill set it up your way and we can argue later :)
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<adiamas>       and i couldn't come up with a better name then that :)
+<Zagor> having extern in .h files is not nasty
+<Zagor> only in .c files
+<adiamas>       your right...
+<adiamas>       but if we do it continuously...
+<adiamas>       your going to get files with 20+ externs...
+<adiamas>       and name collisions are bound to happen...
+<adiamas>       ive had them happen already
+<PsycoXul>      be more creative with your names
+<Zagor> well if they're extern they're part of the API and should be named apropriately
+<PsycoXul>      i'd show you some of the ones i come up with, but you'd probably be offended :p
+<adiamas>       zagor i agree.. but if two ppl 'name appropriately' it doesn't prevent collisions :)
+<PsycoXul>      sure it does
+<adiamas>       how?
+<Zagor> adiamas: right, but then we smack them and joy is restored
+<PsycoXul>      if you're using some api you don't name your vars by its external var naming conventions
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<adiamas>       PsycoXul sure.. but were already at 14k+ lines
+<adiamas>       are you telling me that you know _every_ extern we have defined already ;)
+<PsycoXul>      no but i don't need to if i name my things in a specific manner
+*       adiamas uses that figure because someone else poitned it out the other night.
+<adiamas>       sure you do...
+<adiamas>       there is no way to prevent collisions (other then slapping :)  ) when you extern
+<Bagder>        many of those 14K is in the simulators
+<adiamas>       so it becomes either, a. know the code or b. trial and error.
+<Zagor> adiamas: I count six (6) externs currently
+<adiamas>       thats all im saying
+<PsycoXul>      take this function, for example [advance appology to young or sensitive viewers]:
+<PsycoXul>      shit carray(ass *bigass, ass *fatass) {
+<PsycoXul>              shit poop;
+<Zagor> three of which are the fonts
+<PsycoXul>              for (poop=0;(bigass[poop] == fatass[poop]);poop++);
+<PsycoXul>              return poop;
+<PsycoXul>      }
+<PsycoXul>      i don't think that would have collisions with much of anything
+<adiamas>       what about carray?
+<Zagor> except the code ethics police :)
+<adiamas>       know one else is going to use that? ;)
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        hey Linus
+<adiamas>       Zagor:  i agree.. its more of the 'as we go' thing...
+<PsycoXul>      yeah well that could be named differently
+<adiamas>       thats all im saying.
+<PsycoXul>      :p
+<PsycoXul>      it really should 
+*       adiamas trouts PsycoXul viciously.
+<PsycoXul>      but i leave it like that anyways
+*       adiamas trades his trout in for a nice frozen ferret
+<PsycoXul>      i've got another one thats named much more appropriately, however i figured in case anybody wouldn't appreciate the one i did paste, they really wouldn't appreciate this one 
+<adiamas>       okay.. who wants to be ferreted?
+<adiamas>       grrrr...
+<adiamas>       can someone please make a note somewhere making a request for bounds checking?
+<adiamas>       snprintf vs sprintf
+<Zagor> we should prevent sprintf somehow, so it won't link
+<Zagor> same with strcpy
+<adiamas>       i suggested defining our own empty sprintf
+<adiamas>       and strcpy
+<adiamas>       with no args
+<adiamas>       so the compiler bitches
+<adiamas>       it didnt go over well :)
+<Zagor> i'm not sure
+<Zagor> linus and I just got the target ata code working
+<Bagder>        anyone sits on a malloc() testing program? ;-)
+<adiamas>       sweet :)
+<Bagder>        *nice*
+<Zagor> so now we have full fat access on target
+<adiamas>       any chance of partitioning out our unit yet or what ;)
+*       adiamas coughs *reiserfs*
+<Zagor> adiamas: we already support multiple partitions, actually. but only fat32 so far, of course.
+<adiamas>       wow.. didn't know you'll had taken that far
+<adiamas>       okay, icons.[ch] created and commited
+<adiamas>       tree.c
+<adiamas>       updated
+<adiamas>       and io.c fixed with removal of sprint, strcpy calls
+<adiamas>       Zagor what do you think of a file for global #defines?
+<adiamas>       stuff like the starting font size
+<adiamas>       and menuing/dir y co-ordinates
+<Zagor> i feel this could be located in the ui code rather than some global file, no?
+<adiamas>       well, thats what i mean...
+<adiamas>       prob is, what file would you put it in 
+<adiamas>       only thing i can think of would be app.c
+<Zagor> why not? start with it there
+<adiamas>       fair enough
+<adiamas>       deal with that tomorrow.. need sleep 
+<adiamas>       night al
+---     You are now known as adi|sleep
+<Zagor> night!
+<Zagor> g'night, even
+<Linus> Zagor: go work on the read() !!!!
+<Zagor> i'm on it
+*       Bagder works on malloc()
+<Linus> Bagder is a nice person
+*       Bagder walks to fill up his coffee cup
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<--     Zagor has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Bagder>        the malloc system will benefit to get adjusted to our use cases
+<Bagder>        whatever they are
+<Zagor> yup
+<Bagder>        anyway, this seems to work pretty good now, and I can run all sorts of test cases against it
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs01v-3-66.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> hi alan!
+<Bagder>        hey alan
+<alkorr>        hi Zag', Bagd'
+<alkorr>        what's up ?
+<Bagder>        the usual
+<Bagder>        all sorts of poking in sources all over
+<Bagder>        Linus and Zagor are doing progress on the ATA
+<alkorr>        pokemen :)
+<Zagor> zagachu and linuchoo
+<alkorr>        adding interrupt in ata ?
+<Zagor> not yet
+<Zagor> we just got everything working together
+<alkorr>        ok
+<Zagor> humm, my read() doesn't signal EOF. that's not very nice :)
+<alkorr>        see you later
+<Bagder>        see ya alan
+<Zagor> I now return -ERRNO values from file.c. anybody see a problem with that?
+<Linus> Not at all
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Linus> You should set errno. :-)
+<Bagder>        we check for -1 from read() for errors
+<Linus> why not < 0?
+<Bagder>        and lseek too
+<Bagder>        because POSIX says -1
+<Linus> Ah. So errno is the way to go.
+<Bagder>        it is
+<Zagor> yes but errno needs a thread context :(
+<Linus> so?
+<Bagder>        can't we make our own errno instead?
+*       calpefrosch going to have lunch now
+<Zagor> so I don't want a thread context
+<Linus> because...
+---     calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|eats
+<Zagor> because it's not really giving us anything we need
+<Linus> you mean like errno?
+<Bagder>        we don't need thread contexts for errno
+<Bagder>        only because newlib forces us
+<Zagor> yes. we don't *need* errno for any other reason than to sustain strict POSIX comliance
+<Linus> Bagder: no. Just a thread safe errno
+<Bagder>        we don't need a thread safe errno
+<Bagder>        heck
+<Linus> oh? Why not?
+<Bagder>        we don't need errno much at all
+<Linus> Maybe not
+<Bagder>        well, people should be used to errno not being thread safe
+<Linus> Really?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Linus> Well then. Go for an unsafe errno.
+<Bagder>        we'll educate the masses ;-)
+<Linus> :-)
+<Linus> Good. What about perror()?
+<Linus> When DEBUG compiled.
+<Zagor> strerror[] is better, imho
+<Zagor> hmm, or maybe not
+<--     alkorr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+---     Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
+---     calpefrosch|eats is now known as calpefrosch
+---     Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<Zagor> read() is working
+*       Zagor cheers
+*       Bagder horrays
+<Zagor> it's a bit messy but we'll fix that
+<Bagder>        closing on reading an mp3 now huh? ;-)
+<Zagor> you bet
+-->     edx (~edx@pD9EA9824.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        hey edx
+<edx>   hi :)
+<edx>   it's been a while... hehe i am working on a little secondary computer (i try to run cygwin with sshd there...)
+*       edx has networking problems with his new computer and will be right back.
+<--     edx has quit (Client Quit)
+<Zagor> I and Linus discussed versioning during lunch. We came up with the idea to write a list of "requirements" that version 1.0 should fulfill.
+<Zagor> something like: Directory browsing, mp3 playback and volume control.
+<Bagder>        that'd be very good
+<Bagder>        we could put features on milestones
+<Bagder>        makes it easier to see where to put your efforts first
+<Zagor> yes
+<Zagor> I'm writing a status report. anything you think I've forgotten? ;)
+<Bagder>        uuuuuh ;-)
+<Bagder>        the scrolling dir browser!
+<Zagor> adding
+<Zagor> who wrote that? you?
+<Bagder>        no
+<Bagder>        Dave Chapman and Stefan Meyer
+-->     edx (~edx@pD9EA9824.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     edx is now known as edx|
+---     edx| is now known as edx
+<edx>   hi... is anybody of you linix guys there.. i have a question :)
+*       Bagder is around
+<edx>   ok.. i set up an ssh server and when i connect i get this:
+<edx>   You are successfully logged in to this server!!!
+<edx>   setgid: Invalid argument
+<edx>   what is taht setgid and where is it called?
+<PsycoXul>      gid is group id
+<Bagder>        man setgid
+<PsycoXul>      like uid is user id
+<edx>   aha
+<edx>   and whats not working with this
+<Bagder>        edx: it is probably called by the server or something
+<edx>   yea it is called by the server.
+<edx>   but why :/
+<Bagder>        why?
+<edx>   i guess its a cygwin related thing.. ?
+<Bagder>        to change effective group
+<edx>   bah.. and why does it have an invalid argument
+<PsycoXul>      cause i don't think windows has groups...
+<Bagder>        that is probably cygwin related, yes
+-->     chris1 (~flanz@62.132.155.14) has joined #rockbox
+<PsycoXul>      seems like cygwin would provide some sort of compatability
+<chris1>        h
+<Bagder>        hi chris1
+<edx>   hi
+<edx>   hmhmmhmmm... hmmm
+*       edx will rebuild etc/passwd stuff
+<chris1>        cygwin ?? you want to use gcc on W32
+<Bagder>        edx is one of those weirdos ;-)
+<edx>   i never said i was to build stuff with it :P
+<edx>   just playing iwth the ssh server :)
+<Bagder>        Zagor: perhaps the "app" stuff in uisimulator should be moved to firmware/app/ or something
+<Zagor> mmm, maybe
+<Bagder>        since it isn't strict simulato stuff
+<Zagor> we discussed the library approach during lunch again. i'm warming up to it.
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Bagder>        still, the simulator directory seems the wrong place for actual code meant for target too
+<Zagor> so maybe we should make an "applications" cvs module containing all various applications instead
+<Bagder>        right
+<Zagor> so do we want "app" or "applications"? :-)
+*       PsycoXul votes for "apps"
+*       Bagder raises his hand for "apps" too
+<Zagor> right
+*       Bagder wants ironi's web design applied
+<Zagor> yeah, me too
+<Zagor> soon I'll just rip it myself :)
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<Zagor> apps module created. create subdirs in it for each applications
+<Zagor> I'm still undecided if we should have a "player" and a "directory" directory
+<Zagor> or if we should try to make them coexist
+<Zagor> "player" and "recorder", of course
+<Bagder>        in the application level, much will differ between them I guess
+<Zagor> precisely
+<Bagder>        we could probably start with moving files from the uisimulator to the apps dir
+<chris1>        the firmware can load latter the Recorder code from the disc as file.I use to 90 % the Player.
+<Zagor> chris1: yeah but what's the point? we'll create separate binaries for players and recorders.
+<calpefrosch>   edx: are you using wincvs?
+<chris1>        yes. We have some #ifdef in the player code to make the best results( smale binarys) for Rec and Player.
+<Zagor> exactly
+<chris1>        my comments  applys not the the source code move talk :)
+*       edx managed to get the ssh server working
+<Bagder>        "its possible to set registers so two outputs are connected together, thus blowing the ATAPI interface"
+<Zagor> not likely
+<Bagder>        sounds unlikely, yes
+<chris1>        the player means ( target player&rec ) . The function Recorder can be a addOn module, load by the firmware from archos harddisk.
+<Zagor> dynamic loading would require more code than the recording function, probably... :-)
+<Bagder>        we speak of Recorder and Player when we mean the different Archos models
+<Zagor> ah, yes
+<Bagder>        gotta go
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+*       calpefrosch goes home
+<calpefrosch>   bue
+<calpefrosch>   bye
+<Zagor> bye
+<--     calpefrosch (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has left #Rockbox
+<chris1>        dynamic loading can be a folder (plugins) on the root filesystem, where the User must reload a other firmware.That have no playlust  support etc. 
+<chris1>        That can only record, an have all the memory for this task.
+<Zagor> yes but we must write the dynamic loading code ourselves. there is no operating system.
+<Zagor> and dynamic loading is very complex
+<Zagor> it's better to have a simple boot loader that lets you select different firmware versions att startup
+<Zagor> we have plans for such a boot loader (caller 'rolo')
+<chris1>        ok, this boot loader can have return point if no firmeware select, and can call by the allready loaded firmware.
+<Zagor> no, we can not return to the ROM firwmare. once the archos has loaded our file, we are on our own. 
+<PsycoXul>      well if a firmware that the bootloader runs returns, can it continue?
+<PsycoXul>      the bootloader i mean
+<Zagor> that's a possibility
+<Zagor> if we reserve an area in RAM for it then a firmware can "exit" by calling it
+<Zagor> also it's not impossible to have each firmware contain a snippet of code that loads "rolo.bin" and executes it
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Zagor> especially games would benefit from this
+<PsycoXul>      the bootloader would appear like an OS that lets you run programs
+<Zagor> yes
+<chris1>        cool
+<Zagor> in a way, it would look like the plugins chris talks about. but in reality they are separate applications.
+<chris1>        I think the time will show what is the best solution for this.First task is to go to R1.0. .) that can play mp3.
+<Zagor> yes
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> hi linus
+<Linus> Yo!
+<Linus> I'm baking with my son
+<Linus> Zagor: is the read() working?
+<Zagor> yes
+<Zagor> i'm struggling with lseek() now
+<Linus> I can't wait...
+<Zagor> SEEK_SET and SEEK_END works, but SEEK_CUR bugs
+<Zagor> (when used in insidious ways, that is)
+<Linus> Ah. But how hard can that be...
+<Zagor> the problem is, of course, the sector caching and when you seek back cross-sector etc
+<Linus> Ah. I see
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|baking
+<Zagor> ahhh, works again
+<--     wannabeuihacker has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<Zagor> gotta go. bye
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     chris1 has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+<--     wavey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     edx|cygwin (~edx@pD9EA9824.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     edx has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<edx|cygwin>    heh.. got irc to work with cygwin.. finally
+-->     edx (~edx@pD9EA9824.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     edx is now known as edx|
+---     edx| is now known as edx
+---     edx is now known as edx|away
+<adi|work>      hehe go you edx
+-->     quiquee (~quique@217.8.199.41) has joined #rockbox
+<--     quiquee has quit ("Leaving")
+---     Linus|baking is now known as Linus
+<elinenbe>      how is the food?
+<elinenbe>      :)
+<Linus> Great
+-->     quiquee (~quique@217.8.197.154) has joined #rockbox
+<quiquee>       I guess today is a bad day to check out the firmware from cvs
+<quiquee>       #             __________               __   ___.
+<quiquee>       #   Open      \______   \ ____   ____ |  | _\_ |__   _______  ___
+<quiquee>       #   Source     |       _//  _ \_/ ___\|  |/ /| __ \ /  _ \  \/  /
+<quiquee>       #   Jukebox    |    |   (  <_> )  \___|    < | \_\ (  <_> > <  <
+<quiquee>       #   Firmware   |____|_  /\____/ \___  >__|_ \|___  /\____/__/\_ \
+<quiquee>       #                     \/            \/     \/    \/            \/
+<quiquee>       # $Id$
+<quiquee>       #
+<quiquee>       HPATH = /usr/local/sh1/bin
+<quiquee>       CC    = $(HPATH)/sh-elf-gcc
+<quiquee>       LD    = $(HPATH)/sh-elf-ld
+<quiquee>       AR    = $(HPATH)/sh-elf-ar
+<quiquee>       AS    = $(HPATH)/sh-elf-as
+<quiquee>       OC    = $(HPATH)/sh-elf-objcopy
+<quiquee>       INCLUDES=-I. -DBLOCK_SIZE=512
+<quiquee>       CFLAGS = -Os -Wall -m1 -nostdlib -Wstrict-prototypes -fomit-frame-pointer -fschedule-insns $(INCLUDES)
+<quiquee>       AFLAGS += -small -relax
+<quiquee>       SRC := $(wildcard *.c)
+<quiquee>       OBJS := $(SRC:%.c=%.o)
+<quiquee>       %.o: %.s
+<quiquee>       all: $(OBJS) # archos.mod # archos.asm 
+<quiquee>       archos.elf : $(OBJS) app.lds
+<quiquee>       archos.bin : archos.elf
+<quiquee>       archos.asm: archos.bin
+<quiquee>       archos.mod : archos.bin
+<quiquee>       dist:
+<quiquee>       clean:
+<quiquee>       =======
+<quiquee>       sorry aboyt that
+-->     calpefrosch|away (~hotrana@p5082C723.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #rockbox
+<--     calpefrosch|away has quit (Client Quit)
+<elinenbe>      woo hoo!
+<quiquee>       I am sorry, trying to paste and copy in an xterm in cygwin/X
+<quiquee>       crt0.o: In function `main_k':
+<quiquee>       crt0.o(.init.text+0x74): undefined reference to `main'
+<quiquee>       when trying to compile the firmware
+<Linus> There is no firmware. Just a bunch of source files.
+<quiquee>       I thought it was already something that could compile as a whole
+<Linus> Not yet.
+<--     quiquee has quit ()
+<--     edx|cygwin has quit ("Leaving")
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<adi|work>      should all the apps that are in the uisim be moved to the new apps dir?
+-->     chris1 (~flanz@Bbb2d.pppool.de) has joined #rockbox
+<chris1>        can i leave a mesg to zagor ?
+<adi|work>      sure.. go ahead
+<adi|work>      ill give it to him
+<--     chris1 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<--     miah has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<--     edx|away has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+-->     wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        hey wavey
+<adi|sleep>     so whats the story with putting apps into the apps dir?
+<wavey> good morning
+<Bagder>        adi|sleep: just that the apps probably shouldn't be in the simulator dir
+<Bagder>        since they'll be part of target builds too
+<adi|sleep>     right.. but what i mean is, should i just move them over blindly or what?
+<Bagder>        btw, it is a national holiday in Sweden today, thus the calmness ;-)
+<adi|sleep>     hehe k.. i was wondering..
+<adi|sleep>     what is the holiday?
+<Bagder>        it is a traditional religious thing
+<adi|sleep>     gotcha
+-->     edx|away (~edx@pD9EA9986.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     edx|away is now known as edx|breakfast
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     edx|breakfast has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<--     wavey has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<--     adi|work has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<--     Tumm has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+-->     edx|breakfast (~edx@pD9EA9986.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+-->     adi|work (~adiamas@pool-151-204-140-140.ny325.east.verizon.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Tumm (coyote@dreamhosted.borlange.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     edx|breakfast is now known as edx
+<--     elinenbe has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.6 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0+/20020507]")
+<--     wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has left #rockbox
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs03v-7-153.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<--     alkorr has quit (Client Quit)
+-->     calpefrosch|away (calpefrosc@p5082C71C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #rockbox
+-->     ironi (irony@pce284-lr.ing-stud1.hj.se) has joined #rockbox
+<ironi> hello
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu May  9 12:23:28 2002
+
diff --git a/www/irc/rockbox-20020511.log b/www/irc/rockbox-20020511.log
new file mode 100644
index 0000000000..8cb3981dd6
--- /dev/null
+++ b/www/irc/rockbox-20020511.log
@@ -0,0 +1,386 @@
+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri May 10 01:37:30 2002
+
+-->     stile (~adiamas@as5300-9.216-194-23-111.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     Topic for #rockbox is Open Source Jukebox Firmware - http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+---     Topic for #rockbox set by Zagor at Fri Apr 12 09:45:52
+---     You are now known as adiamas
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<adiamas>       boo.
+<adiamas>       Bagder you around?
+<Bagder>        yeps
+<adiamas>       wanna test something for me witht he uisim?
+<Bagder>        sure
+<adiamas>       okay... remove your archos dir under x11
+<adiamas>       and then run the sim...
+<adiamas>       go to browse
+<adiamas>       and try to browse.. tell me what happens
+<Bagder>        Segmentation fault (core dumped)
+<Bagder>        looks like my fault
+<adiamas>       okay.. i have a fix for it.. just no sure you gonna like it.
+<Bagder>        x11_opendir() should be fixed
+<adiamas>       you need to do a check and make sure your opendir succeeds.. let me get you the line
+<Bagder>        right
+<adiamas>       want i should toss up my fix?
+<Bagder>        I'll fix it
+<adiamas>       k
+<Bagder>        committed
+<adiamas>       i ment to ask.. why arent we using stdlib so we can have NULL
+<adiamas>       or define our own NULL
+<adiamas>       ?
+<Bagder>        we should
+<Bagder>        just me being lazy
+<adiamas>       :)
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> Moo!
+<Bagder>        boo 
+<Bagder>        you digging mp3s now? ;-)
+<Linus> Well, almost
+<Linus> I have some issues with the MP3 bit swapping performancs , but it rocks!
+<Bagder>        I can imagine that
+<Linus> I don't like having to bitswap every f**king byte of an MP3 song
+<Linus> It takes time
+<Bagder>        no shit? ;-)
+<Bagder>        perhaps we can make second read() or something that bitswaps right away when reading
+<Bagder>        but perhaps it makes no diff
+<Linus> We should. Or even at ATA level, so we don't even have to store the unswapped bytes.
+<Bagder>        yes, that's my thought
+<Bagder>        an ata_read_shift() function
+<Linus> And prehaps swap at a word level. That saves us half the time.
+<Linus> ...with a 64K table... :-(
+<Bagder>        yeah
+<Bagder>        but we can generate the table in runtime at least
+<Linus> Yup
+<Bagder>        do you know if the recorder will need this swapping too?
+<Linus> I don't think so. It has a parallel interface
+<Bagder>        ah, right
+<Linus> Still, the loop I am using today is far from optimal. If we hand-assemble the bitswap loop it shouldn't take much time.
+<Bagder>        have you been able to load new parts of the mp3 while one part is playing?
+<Linus> I haven't tried yet. That's my project for tuday.
+<Bagder>        you rock
+<Linus> I do my best
+<Linus> Luckily, this is what I'm best at :-)
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<Linus> It took me some time to discover that the FAT driver didn't swap the words in the FAT...
+<Linus> And not that much time to doscover that the SWAB32 macro was braindead.
+<PsycoXul>      btw, i had a thought the other day.. how does the firmware on the HD effect the charging and how/when it claims to be charged
+<Linus> I don't know. I guess it measures the voltage using the A/D converter.
+<Linus> But it must be somewhat complicated to get a good A/D reference voltage...
+<Linus> Someone with good knowledge of electronics will have to look into this
+<adiamas>       icon wise.. i was thinking.. the char maps we have on the website... should those all be mapped?
+<Linus> In the simulator?
+<Bagder>        we should get the player ones in for the simulator to look more like a Player
+<adiamas>       umm.. by 'player' you mean recorder icons?
+<Bagder>        no
+<Bagder>        we simulate the player
+<Bagder>        but we do that using our own defined charset
+<Bagder>        which happens to be the same as we use on the Recorder
+<adiamas>       okay, so i should do the player icons first?
+-->     wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        they are the only ones we more or less need to make a good simulator, yes
+<adiamas>       okay...
+<Bagder>        the recorder-ones aren't needed, since the Recorder doesn't have them "built-in"
+<Bagder>        although some of them might be useful anyway
+<Bagder>        it looks as if they made the battery meter using chars... 
+<Linus> hi wavey
+<adiamas>       um.. okay. now im confused again...
+<adiamas>       1. what do you mean by 'built-in'
+<Bagder>        the Player has those characters built-in into the LCD stuff, we can't change them
+<adiamas>       okay.. then how do we reference them?
+<Linus> Bagder: The battery icon is not character based. It's specially made on the LCD.
+<Linus> Like the USB icon and a load of others
+<Bagder>        adiamas: we send ascii strings to the LCD
+<Bagder>        Linus: oh, ok, but there are chartacters looking very much as if made for that purpose
+<Linus> ah. in the recorder?
+<Bagder>        Linus: yes
+<Linus> IC. I'm a player guy. :-)
+*       adiamas is way lost
+<adiamas>       have we worke don those 'char strings' at all?
+<Bagder>        adiamas: check out lcd_puts() for the Player LCD 
+<Bagder>        we just send a plain string to that LCD
+<Bagder>        it isn't graphical at all
+*       adiamas shrugs
+<Bagder>        they player LCD is simply two lines with 11 letters on each
+<adiamas>       nod
+<adiamas>       i just don' get how char strings give you the output.
+<adiamas>       namely, how we know what string does what
+<Bagder>        we pass a string like "abcde"
+*       adiamas feels progressively dumber
+<Bagder>        the LCD shows that on screen
+<adiamas>       well that i get...
+<adiamas>       what about file icons
+<adiamas>       or battery indicators
+<Bagder>        eeh
+<Bagder>        there are some fixed "icons" on the LCD
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      adiamas: those are pre-defined in the LCD
+<PsycoXul>      adiamas: we only turn them on or off
+<adiamas>       okay.. then with all of this.. will we be defining our own icons at all...
+<adiamas>       and if not, why did we start to for the recorder?
+<Bagder>        the Recorder supports them very well
+<PsycoXul>      icons are just whats defined in the LCD already for the player
+<PsycoXul>      then we've got CGROM which contains all char set mapped out already, and CGRAM where we can draw 8 of our own chars
+<PsycoXul>      for display on the 2 lines
+<Bagder>        ... but we don't simulate those Player icons at all yet
+<adiamas>       okay.. so for player everything is done...
+<adiamas>       now.. what about the recorder?
+<PsycoXul>      for the player everything is done on target, but not much simulated
+<Bagder>        we should introduce an API for the Player LCD "icons"
+-->     calpefrosch (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        adiamas: actually, I think we should think through how we want the icons and images present on the recorder screen
+<adiamas>       presented you mean?
+<Bagder>        adiamas: like how the built-in sw always have a number of icons on the screen, whatever screen we view
+<adiamas>       well, thats going to be a factor of how we work the menuing
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        hey calpefrosch
+<adiamas>       another factor to consider is, if we are going to 'zoom' in on items... ie: increase font size, for the user..
+<adiamas>       what happens to the icons then
+<Bagder>        right
+<Bagder>        there are a few "usability issues" to sort out
+<calpefrosch>   hey
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor_>        hey all
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Bagder>        moo Zagor
+*       Bagder does a cow sound 
+<calpefrosch>   hey Zagor
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs07v-3-250.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<--     alkorr has quit (Client Quit)
+<Bagder>        my malloc() is about ready to get added, as soon as we see a need for it
+<Linus> I use newlibs malloc(9 at the moment
+<Bagder>        how did you solve the sbrk?
+<Linus> It is included
+<Linus> It uses all space between _end and _stack
+<Bagder>        aha
+<Linus> Easy as pie
+<Linus> ...after digging in the "documentation" and the sources
+<--     wavey has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<Bagder>        neato
+<Bagder>        blah, the newlib CVS doesn't work
+<Linus> work?
+<Bagder>        cvs checkout: cannot open CVS/Entries for reading: No such file or directory
+<Linus> blerk. Why do you need the CVS?
+<Bagder>        I don't *need* it, I just hate the word "snapshot"
+<Linus> why do you need the snapshot?
+<Bagder>        .... and that's the only alternative
+<Bagder>        that is all there is
+<Bagder>        never mind
+-->     wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<adiamas>       okay folks.. we officially ahve 10 icons to play with for the recorder now
+<Zagor> heyyyy, wavey
+<Zagor> adiamas: nice
+<wavey> howdy :)
+<adiamas>       we now have the file on that was there, plus folder, open box, filled box, the triangle selector and some other stuff...
+<Linus> Bagder: I looked at their FTP. Loads of newlib releases. Where are you looking?
+<Bagder>        "Source snapshots are available as gzipped tar files via anonymous FTP from the newlib ftp directory."
+<Bagder>        yes there're there
+<Linus> Well, that is not entirely true. The have release archives as well.
+<Bagder>        the CVS still doesn't work ;-)
+<Bagder>        and their ftp server is full
+<Linus> Actually, that is only what they have. They don't have snapshots. :-)
+<Linus> How large is your mailbox?
+<Bagder>        they don't actually say that they are releases anywhere
+<Bagder>        therefor, I assumed they are the snapshots they mentioned
+<Linus> ftp://sources.redhat.com/pub/newlib/newlib-1.10.0.tar.gz
+<Bagder>        "Sorry, the ftp server has too many active ftp connections (30/30)."
+<Bagder>        ...
+<Bagder>        worked now
+<Bagder>        I'd still prefer the CVS version ;-)
+<Linus> Yeah. I don't. God knows what they have checked in recently.
+<Bagder>        coward ;-)
+<Linus> I just played Machinae Supremacy right off the hard drive
+<Bagder>        yay
+*       Zagor cheers
+<Zagor> "and there was much rejoicing"
+<Linus> "it's just a model"
+<Bagder>        "let's not go there, its a silly place"
+<Linus> "Play-a-lot"
+---     Linus is now known as Sir
+---     Sir is now known as Sir-Play-a-lot
+---     Sir-Play-a-lot is now known as Linus
+<adiamas>       how wide and tall is the recorder in pixels?
+<Bagder>        112 x 64
+<adiamas>       ty
+<Bagder>        LCD_WIDTH and LCD_HEIGHT in lcd.h
+---     Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|lunch
+<wavey> this archos recorder is pissing me off
+<wavey> faulty as hell
+<wavey> used to reset in battery mode only, now it does it in dc too
+<Bagder>        ough
+*       wavey contemplates returning it
+---     Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor
+---     Linus|lunch is now known as Linus
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<Linus> YOOOO!
+<Linus> Just listening to Machinae Supremacy, from the hard drive. The whole song!
+<Zagor> so what happens when the song ends? ;)
+<Linus> Don't know yet. We'll see in about 8 minutes... :-)
+<Zagor> you r00lz :)
+<calpefrosch>   hi
+<Linus> Yo!
+<calpefrosch>   for the mp3-player in win32, can we use an Active X ?
+<calpefrosch>   I didn't found anything for native playing yet
+<Linus> I don't know. Win32 isn't exactly my ball game.
+*       calpefrosch have to go to a meeting :-(
+---     calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|away
+<Linus> The ATA/FAT read is surprisingly slow...
+<Linus> It takes a while second for 128K...
+<Linus> whole
+<Zagor> odd
+<Linus> The -O switch cured that pretty well...
+<--     calpefrosch|away has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> welcome!
+<Zagor> ah, so now it's fast?
+<Linus> yes it is
+<Linus> But i think it can be faster
+<Linus> Damn. The DMA IRQ didn't recognize the end of the song when the last loaded chunk wrapped in the buffer...
+<Zagor> how come?
+<Linus> A negative unplayed_space_left variable (write - read < 0)
+<Linus> Otherwise it works cool as hell!
+<Linus> Version 1.0 is coming closer and closer!
+<Zagor> ninjax!
+<Linus> "...I wanna fell like that agin..." lalala
+<Linus> Machinae Supremacy rocks!
+<Zagor> wavey: what was your purpose with disk.c/h again? it's colliding with common/disk.c/h
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> heyy, bagder. we need to start working on a player ui asap
+<Zagor> where do I start?
+<Zagor> (in the simulator, I mean)
+<Bagder>        I was hoping we'd get the the one the other guy was working on... but...
+<Bagder>        Zagor: edit the Makefile to build a Player simulator
+<Zagor> I did. but nothing happens when I start it
+<Bagder>        no window with silly text in it?
+<Zagor> no, just empty. I only redefined $(DISPLAY), but that should be enough right?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        lemme see
+<Zagor> umm, wai
+<Zagor> t
+<Zagor> it's the x11/Makefile I need to change, nothing else?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        make clean and make
+<Zagor> yup
+<Bagder>        I get text in my window
+<Zagor> I don't
+<Bagder>        move it then, or put a window over it a while or something to get an event
+<Zagor> ahh
+<Zagor> now I got the text
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<Bagder>        I've seen that happen before, I'm not sure why this happens though
+<Bagder>        X11 magic stuff
+<Zagor> ok, I'll add player support to tree.c
+<Bagder>        goodie
+<Bagder>        "<wannabeuihacker> I added the menu functions and got a menu system for the player"
+<Zagor> ok, good
+<Bagder>        but I never got any
+<Zagor> ok
+<Zagor> hmm, maybe we should have a lcd_setfont() call instead of a font parameter to lcd_puts(). as it is now, I have to #ifdef all puts() calls just because of this
+<Bagder>        the coordinates are different too
+<Zagor> uh, right. I'm a fool :)
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<Bagder>        setfont() might be good anyway
+<Zagor> the bad thing is it introduces "state information"
+<Bagder>        yes, but it would reduce a large amount of passed zeroes...
+<Zagor> yup
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs02m-7-99.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<--     alkorr has quit (Excess Flood)
+<Zagor> hmmm, idea: we make a lcd_setfont() and a lcd_setmargins() call. then lcd_puts() can use x,y "char position" for both player and recorder
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs02m-7-99.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> that would make much code identical
+<Bagder>        sounds pretty good
+<Bagder>        would even make "zooming" work
+<Zagor> yeah
+<Bagder>        when setfont()ing a larger font
+<Zagor> good point
+<Zagor> we should have both "charpos" and "bitpos" calls. what do we call the "bitpos" call? putsxy is not very obvious...
+<Bagder>        I vote for that anyway
+<Zagor> yeah, that's what I'm having right now :)
+<elinenbe>      Im having a turkey roast !)
+*       Bagder jumps, elinenbe is alive ;-)
+<elinenbe>      I am alway here.
+<elinenbe>      I am always here
+<Bagder>        Zagor: are you planning to move the apps to the apps dir?
+<Zagor> yup
+<Linus> Gotta go!
+<Bagder>        bye Linus
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<alkorr>        cu
+<alkorr>        too
+<--     alkorr has quit ()
+-->     wavey_ (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<--     wavey has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<Zagor> the player dir browser is now working
+<Zagor> oops, left a debugf()
+<Zagor> well, I've got to go. see you!
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     wavey_ (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has left #rockbox
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Tumm has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
+-->     Tumm (coyote@dreamhosted.borlange.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     You are now known as adi|home
+-->     wavey (~wavey@host-54.valtech.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<elinenbe>      rock on!
+<--     elinenbe has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.6 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0+/20020507]")
+<--     wavey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+-->     wavey (~wavey@host-54.valtech.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+-->     linuxstb (dave@dsl-212-23-31-215.zen.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+-->     quiquee (~quique@217.8.196.173) has joined #rockbox
+<linuxstb>      Good evening all.  Anyone feel like talking rockbox?
+<quiquee>       good evening
+<--     wavey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<adi|work>      linuxstb sure.. whats up?
+<linuxstb>      I've just incorporated the libmad source into the uisimulator directory and was wondering whether to commit it.
+<adi|work>      ahh.. right.. saw your email :)
+<adi|work>      well... id say hold off until Zagor or Bagder could give you a proper answer.
+-->     wavey (~wavey@host-54.valtech.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<linuxstb>      adi|home: that is what I was going to do.
+<adi|work>      :)
+<--     wavey has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<--     quiquee has quit ("Leaving")
+<linuxstb>      bye.
+<linuxstb>      \exit
+<--     linuxstb has quit ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.0")
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<adi|work>      sob....
+<--     elinenbe has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.6 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0+/20020507]")
+-->     linuxstb (dave@dsl-212-23-31-215.zen.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+-->     calpefrosch|away (~hotrana@p5082C10B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #rockbox
+<linuxstb>      Hello calpefrosch
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs03v-1-174.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<--     alkorr has quit (Client Quit)
+<calpefrosch|away>      hi
+---     calpefrosch|away is now known as calpefrosch
+<linuxstb>      I've started implementing a mpeg playing thread in the x11 simulator
+<linuxstb>      Someone should try and mirror my development in the win32 simulator!
+<calpefrosch>   yes, I have seen some code. Do you use the libmad code ?
+<linuxstb>      Yes. I have also started to use pthreads - I'm not sure if that is good or bad
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+-->     calpefrosch|away (calpefrosc@p5082C10B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
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+<adi|home>      linus you around?
+<Linus> Now I am
+<adi|home>      k...
+<adi|home>      umm.. not sure, but you may want to talk with linuxstb
+<adi|home>      <linuxstb> I've started implementing a mpeg playing thread in the x11 simulator
+<adi|home>      <linuxstb> Someone should try and mirror my development in the win32 simulator!
+<adi|home>      <calpefrosch> yes, I have seen some code. Do you use the libmad code ?
+<adi|home>      <linuxstb> Yes. I have also started to use pthreads - I'm not sure if that is good or bad
+<adi|home>      he wants to add the libmad to the source tree, but hasn't gotten an answer from anyone...
+<adi|home>      he says its appx 900k
+<Linus> Well. What is this libmad thing?
+<Linus> Gotta sleep. Night!
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
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+-->     PsycoXul (psyco@adsl-63-205-40-140.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     Disconnected (22).
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat May 11 23:45:05 2002
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+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun May 12 06:00:58 2002
+
+-->     adiamas (~adiamas@216.194.26.49) has joined #rockbox
+---     Topic for #rockbox is Open Source Jukebox Firmware - http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/     [a.k.a. This room is too damn quiet.]
+---     Topic for #rockbox set by adiamas at Sun May 12 02:38:43
+-->     linuxstb (dave@dsl-212-23-31-215.zen.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
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+<edx>   hi
+<linuxstb>      Hello - is anyone around?
+<edx>   yea
+<linuxstb>      Hello Felix - are you still working on the win32 simulator?
+<edx>   yea
+<edx>   i am...
+<linuxstb>      Do you fancy implementing mpeg audio playback?
+<edx>   but i've had a lot of work to do the last two weeks.. i guess i am kinda behind the x11 :)
+<edx>   mpeg implementing is not too hard - i have already written a class for it (for another project) so i can use that.
+<linuxstb>      I've already written a wrapper around libmad - you just need to output the 16 bit stereo sound samples to the windows sound device.
+<linuxstb>      i.e. implement the functions in x11/oss_sound.c for Windows.
+<edx>   hm - i just use the windows media player to do that :)
+<linuxstb>      I think it may save work if the x11 and win32 share the same mpeg decoding code
+<linuxstb>      Does win32 support pthreads?
+<edx>   threads..
+<edx>   sure.
+<edx>   i'll have a look ath the oss_sound.c later on... maybe i can just translate it to windows.
+<linuxstb>      I have started to implement a separate mpeg playing thread...
+<linuxstb>      ... I need to try and make it work on x11, win32 and eventually the target.
+<edx>   do we have a startthread funciton or something liek that for the target...
+<linuxstb>      I also use the pthread_mutex_lock and pthread_mutex_unlock functions to lock the play queue
+<linuxstb>      ... as well as signals to say when the queue is no longer empty
+<linuxstb>      thread.c only contains a create_thread function.  I can't see anything else
+<edx>   ... ill have to write that for win32 then...
+<edx>   i gotta go now... i'll try to continue the win32 sim code during the next week.
+<linuxstb>      OK - I'll keep working on x11.  Bye.
+---     edx is now known as edx|away
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+<linuxstb>      Hello Daniel - I have just sent a (long) message to the mailing list about the mpeg API.  I'm happy to discuss here, or by email.
+<Bagder>        uh, I'm gonna watch tv now, back in 45 mins... ;-)
+<linuxstb>      No problem.
+*       Bagder reads linuxstb's mail now
+<Bagder>        ok, I like the suggested api in general, I only have some small details
+<Bagder>        kill_playback() - "kill the mpeg playing thread" isn't that just gonna stop the audio?
+---     edx|away is now known as edx
+<linuxstb>      This is something I wasn't sure about - is the mpeg thread there constantly, or should it be created and killed as required?
+<Bagder>        hey edx
+<edx>   hi
+<edx>   Heh: http://acmesofties.cjb.net
+<Bagder>        linuxstb: I'd prefer to have it there always
+<linuxstb>      Will we be able to send it a signal to say "wake up and play some music"?
+<Bagder>        oh sure, it would just sit waiting on a message queue or something
+<edx>   Bagder: well a kinn thread wont be bad anyways...
+<edx>   knn = kill
+<edx>   arghl.. kinn = kill
+<Bagder>        edx why so?
+<edx>   meybe it needs to cleans up some stuff...
+<edx>   maybe..
+<edx>   jeez - cant type today
+<Bagder>        I don't believe we ever need to kill threads, at least I can't think of any good reason why
+<edx>   well - but the thread might want to clean up stuff...
+<Bagder>        sure
+<edx>   i just say it might - it doesnt have to.. :)
+<linuxstb>      How about killing the thread so we can free it's memory (i.e. the play buffer) for other things
+<Bagder>        but not by killing itself ;-)
+<edx>   then rename the function. heh.. it's just called where kill_thread would be called if it existed
+<Bagder>        linuxstb: I don't think we'll prioritise that
+<linuxstb>      OK!
+<Bagder>        stop_track() could stop the playback and free the play buffer 
+<Bagder>        then start_playback() could allocate it again and play
+<linuxstb>      OK, so if are agreed that the mpeg thread is constantly there - do you have any other comments about the API?
+<Bagder>        yes another minor one:
+<Bagder>        what's the difference between new_track() and start_playback() ?
+<Bagder>        couldn't they be the same?
+<linuxstb>      start_playback creates the thread.  If the thread is always there, then we can change start_playback to create_thread
+<edx>   ... good night guys
+<linuxstb>      ... which isn't really part of the API.
+<Bagder>        night edx
+<linuxstb>      bye.
+<--     edx has quit ("l8r")
+<Bagder>        right, well I have just pictured myself the play thread to be always present...
+<linuxstb>      yes - I agree - the play thread will always be there
+<Bagder>        anyway, the thread's presence or not shouldn't be reflected in the api...
+<Bagder>        so
+<Bagder>        I think the rest covers everything up
+<linuxstb>      You're probably right about the thread's presence.
+<linuxstb>      My only other problem is how to implement the threads in the simulator
+<linuxstb>      I can use pthreads on x11, but how should this be implemented?
+<Bagder>        we can't simulate the threads in the same way they work on the target
+<Bagder>        we need to keep simualting the apis properly, not the exact behavior
+<linuxstb>      I was also thinking in terms of portability between x11 and win32.
+<Bagder>        the thread stuff won't be very portable between the x11 and win32
+<linuxstb>      OK - I'll start implementing it in the x11 subdirectory, and the person who writes the win32 can see if we can share any code.
+<Bagder>        I agree with that approach
+<linuxstb>      Another concern is the seeking inside files...
+<linuxstb>      ... it could be hard to implement with VBR files.  But I guess we can leave that until last.
+<Bagder>        yes, I've thought about that too
+<Bagder>        I think we better ignore that for now
+<linuxstb>      I also think frame sizes can vary (by 1 byte) even in CBR files.
+<Bagder>        so, we better read up on the details and see what we can do
+<Bagder>        perhaps we won't be able to seek per time at all
+<linuxstb>      I think we can seek by time, but it may require scanning the file.
+<linuxstb>      The user doesn't have to use it.
+<Bagder>        true
+<linuxstb>      Should volume control be part of the mpeg API or separate?
+<adiamas>       id assume seperate
+<Bagder>        I think separate too
+<linuxstb>      I guess it is just an implementation detail
+<Bagder>        true
+<linuxstb>      Are you happy with the peek_next_track and get_next_track concept?
+<Bagder>        do we really need two functions for it?
+<linuxstb>      I think so.  What is the alternative?
+<Bagder>        just get_next_track()
+<Bagder>        uh
+<Bagder>        no
+*       Bagder wasn't thinking 
+<linuxstb>      So you are happy then?
+<Bagder>        get_next would then of course advance some kind of pointer
+<linuxstb>      yes - that's the difference.
+<Bagder>        yes, I'm fine with it
+<linuxstb>      OK.  I guess we're done here then.
+<Bagder>        I would prefer to have Linus say something about it though, as he's the master of the MAS and mp3 playing
+<linuxstb>      I agree - I probably won't do any more work on it today anyway.
+<Bagder>        I appreciate your work
+<linuxstb>      No problem.  I just wished that somewhere in the UK would get the recorder 20 in stock again.
+<linuxstb>      I don't actually own one yet.
+<Bagder>        hehe ;-)
+<linuxstb>      I am assuming the recorder is the best to buy - even if I never record on it.
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        it has a better display and better sound (they say)
+<linuxstb>      Do you know if Linus is developing a driver for both MAS versions?
+<Bagder>        he's doing the 3507 first, the Player one
+<Bagder>        because that's the hardware he runs his gdb on ;-)
+<Bagder>        both Linus and Björn have both Player and Recorder
+<linuxstb>      Have you discussed the 3587 with him?
+<Bagder>        not very much
+<linuxstb>      I hope it won't be a problem then.
+<Bagder>        no one thinks it will be, but we can't be sure of course
+<linuxstb>      I don't even want to think about the "mpeg recording API" yet :-)
+<Bagder>        it'll hopefully be less messy code
+<Bagder>        the 3507 needs all bytes bit-reversed
+<linuxstb>      Thanks for the chat.  I'll wait for Linus to comment before going too far with the mpeg playing on the simulator.
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+-->     danaka (~k_a_d_a@pD9E4A486.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<danaka>        hi
+<danaka>        somebody out there
+<danaka>        help
+<danaka>        I need Info
+<adiamas>       shoot...
+<adiamas>       what can i help ywa with
+<danaka>        hi
+<danaka>        I wanted to find out which Harddrive I can use to upgrade my Recorder20
+<danaka>        and another question is there a limit of files to download to my player
+<danaka>        also I wanted to tell u guys that I think its pretty cool that someone trys to write his own code for the box
+<danaka>        I think its pretty hard
+<danaka>        I m just trying to start programming with C
+<danaka>        and Java
+<danaka>        will see what works better for me
+<danaka>        I looked at ur site and all those files read a lot but still dont know nothing
+<danaka>        well Im really beginning beginning
+<danaka>        C
+<danaka>        wanna play tetris, too on my machine :)
+<danaka>        and Quake II grins
+<danaka>        lol
+<danaka>        I liked that Faq
+<adiamas>       hehe sorry, back :)
+<adiamas>       ill address what i can..
+<adiamas>       1. FAQ thanks for the compliment :)
+<adiamas>       2. programming... projects like this are a great way to learn
+<adiamas>       3. file limit.  I don't believe their is a file limit on the size or number o files you can have, but not 100 percent positive
+<adiamas>       4. upgradeing.. 
+<adiamas>       no idea at all.
+<danaka>        would be nice to have 60 gig or something but those 2.5 drives are pretty expensive
+<danaka>        gonna get my player today I cant await to put my 20 gig mp3z on it
+<danaka>        but its sad that is already full after that action
+<danaka>        gonna take it with me im going for a working trip to china
+<danaka>        so when I look at http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/rockbox/www/sh-win/
+<danaka>        seems like an emulator under win is that right?
+<danaka>        Where could I start to understand all that probably use more of my Linux and let that windoze go
+<danaka>        then learn C and get back to the files
+<danaka>        there are a lot In that WWW dir
+<danaka>        oops rockbox dir
+<danaka>        please tell me where can I start to understand Im wiling to learn
+<danaka>        and I want to hack my Archos
+<danaka>        damn its already 6.45 in the morning here in Germany and Im still checking all Info I can get about the player without even holding it in my hands
+<danaka>        but Im possitive it will arive today
+<adiamas>       hmmm well..
+<adiamas>       the full api for the devices isn't completed yet, but we're nearly there.
+<adiamas>       as for the win/lin thing,
+<adiamas>       we have a user interface simulator for both platforms
+<adiamas>       the idea is that until the work on metal (hardware
+<adiamas>       is done, then the rest of us have something we can work for/with in the simulator.
+<adiamas>       as for where to begin.. that is always a tough question to answer.
+<adiamas>       best thing i could suggest is to read over the docs that are in the cvs repositiory...
+<adiamas>       then try getting the simulator working on your home machine.
+<adiamas>       then just play with anything that seems interesting.
+<adiamas>       i worked on tetris, screensaver and the FAQ because its what caught my eye at the time.
+<adiamas>       hope that helps a bit
+<danaka>        aight thanks 
+<adiamas>       and dont' ever be afraid to ask quesiton shere :)
+<danaka>        gonna check the docs in the cvs
+<danaka>        cool thanx
+<danaka>        gotta go sleep now have a nice day or night or whatever u have at the moment
+<danaka>        bye
+<adiamas>       bye
+<--     danaka (~k_a_d_a@pD9E4A486.dip.t-dialin.net) has left #rockbox
+-->     calpefrosch (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     ChanServ gives channel operator status to Bagder
+<adiamas>       hey Bagder
+<Bagder>        howdy
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+<adiamas>       Bagder taht was your reply to my idea that just went out yes?
+<Bagder>        no, that's Dave's reply
+<adiamas>       ah... k...
+<adiamas>       i still havent gotten nicks and real life names down yet :)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Bagder>        morning Zagor
+<Zagor> morn
+<Tumm>  morning everyone
+<Bagder>        hey Tumm
+-->     linuxstb (dave@dsl-212-23-31-215.zen.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        morning Dave
+<linuxstb>      Morning - what time is it in Sweden?
+<Bagder>        09:41
+<linuxstb>      8.41 here in London.
+<linuxstb>      I'm going to be here all day - "working" at home.
+<Bagder>        aah, we like that ;-)
+<Bagder>        "working" at home is nice
+<linuxstb>      I hope my boss hasn't joined this list :-)
+<Bagder>        hehehe
+<linuxstb>      Is anyone doing anything interesting on rockbox at the moment?
+<Bagder>        not me
+*       Bagder actually works
+<linuxstb>      I'll be working today, but will have time to chat.
+<Bagder>        Zagor: you have any thoughts on the mpeg thread and linuxstb's api suggestions?
+<linuxstb>      The main change from my email is that the mpeg playing thread will be there permanently.
+<linuxstb>      This makes start_playback and kill_playback unneccessary.
+<Zagor> well, two things: 1) we'll be using a single thread combined with an interrupt handler in target
+<Zagor> 2) the api doesn't really need to know that :-)
+<linuxstb>      Agreed, but that possibly means we can't share much code between the simulator and target.
+<Zagor> yes
+<Bagder>        oh yes
+<Zagor> we shouldn't share code beyond the API
+<linuxstb>      I thought the aim was to share as much code as possible, and design the APIs with that in mind.
+<Zagor> actually, no. the aim is to share application code, not lowlevel code
+<Bagder>        yes, the appplication code should run both in target and in the simulators
+<Zagor> there is no point in trying to make the simulator drivers behave the same as the target drivers, as long as the API is the same
+<linuxstb>      The debate is then where do we draw the line between application and low-level.
+<Bagder>        true
+<Zagor> in the APIs
+<linuxstb>      OK - so is my suggested API at the right level?
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> HELO
+<Zagor> I'd say so, yes. except for the threading things
+<Bagder>        HELO Linus
+<Linus> MAIL FROM:
+<linuxstb>      Welcome Linus - just the man to talk about mpeg playing.
+<Linus> Oh.
+<Bagder>        ;-)
+*       Linus runs for coffee
+<linuxstb>      :-)
+<linuxstb>      Sorry!
+<Linus> Back!
+<Bagder>        our coffee machine is broken again... *sigh*
+<Linus> shaking hands, eh?
+<Zagor> the get_next_track() things are not really mpeg-playback stuff, it's part of the playlist code
+<Linus> trembling maybe
+<Linus> Are you talking about the mpeg playing API?
+<Zagor> Dave's proposal, yes
+<Bagder>        well, the playback doesn't know which track to play so it needs to ask
+<Zagor> yes, but it's not part of the API
+<Bagder>        so how should it work?
+<Zagor> the gist is right. i'm just saying it's not part of the API, it's part of the implementation
+<linuxstb>      It's a way to abstract the actual selection of tracks by the user.
+<Bagder>        I think the playlist code needs to supply that function, and the playback thread uses it
+<linuxstb>      So it's part of _an_ API.
+<Zagor> yes but that selection is handled by playlist.c, not mpeg.c
+<Zagor> right
+<linuxstb>      We still need that function somewhere in the program - it doesn't really matter what API we say it is part of.
+*       Bagder agrees
+<linuxstb>      It's part of the two-way communication needed between the "UI thread" and the "mpeg playing thread"
+<Linus> Two-way?
+<Bagder>        not the ui, the playlist
+<Zagor> but the playlist code runs in the ui thread, no?
+<Bagder>        Linus: the playback thread needs to know which track to play
+<Bagder>        does it?
+<Zagor> i don't know :-)
+<linuxstb>      The mpeg thread needs to report it's status back to the user somehow.
+<Bagder>        me neither ;-)
+<Bagder>        I just thought that the UI needed to be independent of the playlist somehow, but I haven't really thought about this in detail
+<Zagor> Bagder: right, but still it makes little sense to have a separate thread for playlist management
+<Bagder>        right
+<Linus> Actually, I haven't given the UI thing much thought. I have only coded an MPEG playing thread.
+<Bagder>        the playlist will be a chunk of structured memory
+<linuxstb>      I don't think we need separate threads - just some kind of abstract data type for playlists.
+<Zagor> yup
+<Bagder>        Linus: yes, but how does it know which track to play? ;-)
+<Linus> Currently, it just opens one track. It's a test.
+<Bagder>        of course, but beyond the tests...
+<Linus> I had a queue in mind that the playlist/UI code kept up to date, and that the MPEG thread could pick from.
+<Zagor> umm, a playlist perhaps? ;)
+<Linus> No
+<linuxstb>      Linus: that is what I am thinking.  A play queue.
+<linuxstb>      The point about my API is that it doesn't matter.
+<linuxstb>      ... to the mpeg thread.
+<Linus> Exactly what dou you mean when you say playlist?
+<Linus> I thought a playlist was an M3U file or the like
+<Zagor> well no that's only one input to a playlist
+<Bagder>        a playlist is anything that knows a sequence of tracks
+<Linus> So the playlist is the play wueue?
+<linuxstb>      I think a play queue is a temporary play list where the "head" is deleted.
+<Linus> linuxstb: exactly
+-->     wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        I would think so too
+<Zagor> I don't much see a point in having both a play list and a play queue. please enlighten me.
+<Bagder>        hey wavey
+<wavey> morning :)
+<Linus> The play queue is what the mpeg thread sees. The playlist is a list of files created by the user.
+<Linus> In my world :-)
+<Zagor> why can't they be the same?
+<linuxstb>      I'll be back in 10 minutes.....
+<wavey> what if the user changes the playlist - does your play queue get updated?
+<Linus> They could. But the term "playlist" has a predefined meaning to many people.
+<Bagder>        we're not "many people" ;-)
+<Zagor> yeah, but the mpeg thread code isn't meant for "many people" :)
+<Linus> wavey: it should. But the MPEG thread doesn't care.
+<Bagder>        if we offer the playback thread Dave's API, then it could be made however we want
+<Bagder>        queue, list, stack, whatever
+<Bagder>        it
+<Bagder>        is beyond what the playback thread should care
+<Linus> So the playback thread just calls get_next_track()?
+<Zagor> yes
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Linus> Fair eneough
+<Linus> hjgfljsrhbglobs
+*       Bagder throws a keyboard to Linus
+<Linus> Throw me a brain
+*       Bagder has none ;-)
+<Linus> So how does the MPEG thread handle the case when the playlist changes while playing?
+<Bagder>        that's why there's a peek and get_next
+<Zagor> it doesn't. that's a UI problem.
+<Linus> So what happens when it changes after the peek()?
+<Bagder>        while playing track A
+<Zagor> i'm not sure i agree on the peek() idea
+<Bagder>        it peeks and sees track B coming up
+<Linus> How often should I peek?
+<Linus> Every second?
+<Bagder>        when you need the next track
+<Linus> Every millisecond?
+<Bagder>        when you need the next track
+<Linus> So how does the MPEG thread handle the case when the playlist changes while playing?
+<Bagder>        while still playing the former
+<Linus> So what happens when it changes after the peek()?
+<Bagder>        flush, restart
+<Linus> How do I know when to do that?
+<Bagder>        or what do you suggest?
+<Linus> I = mpeg thread
+<Zagor> you're making this too complex, IMHO
+<Linus> I suggest a "push"
+<Bagder>        push?
+<Linus> Maybe a PLAYLIST CHANGED message?
+<Bagder>        maybe just play_track() ;-)
+<Zagor> instead of peek() and next(), use an index
+<Linus> Maybe, but it will interrupt
+<Linus> the current song
+<Zagor> when reading next_track into the buffer, check periodically (every second?) that the file is the same
+<Bagder>        so how do the thread get the next song without interrupting?
+<Zagor> once the song starts, there's no turning back
+<Linus> Bagder: get_next_track()
+<Zagor> next() sucks
+<Linus> Why?
+<Bagder>        why?
+<wavey> why?
+*       wavey smiles
+<Zagor> because then you need a peek
+<Linus> Suggestion?
+<Zagor> get(int index)
+<Bagder>        what's index?
+<Linus> OK, so a separate play queue?
+<Zagor> no
+<Bagder>        0 or 1?
+<Bagder>        you guys should write this down and mail instead ;-)
+<Zagor> not until we have some kind of idea... :-)
+<Linus> Zagor: what is the index?
+<Bagder>        but it sounds like we all basicly have the same idea
+<linuxstb>      If the user changes the currently playing track, it calls pause_playback and then new_track with the new filename.
+<Bagder>        but we talk around each other
+<linuxstb>      it = the UI thread
+<Zagor> Linus: index is a track counter. using this index, you can ask for several tracks in advance.
+<Zagor> not just "current" and "next"
+<Bagder>        why would the playback need that?
+<Zagor> to fill the buffer, in case of small tracks
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Linus> Many short tracks.
+<Bagder>        right
+<Bagder>        it would in fact need that, indeed
+<Linus> Sound effects for Tetris, for example.
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<linuxstb>      are small tracks a real problem?  How many people have small tracks?
+<Zagor> or wavey's track name reader :-)
+<Zagor> it's not a problem, but it's unfortunate to design so we can't handle them
+<linuxstb>      I have no problem with having peek_track(n).  We still only need get_next_track though.
+<Linus> Small tracks are not a problem. At least it shouldn't.
+<Zagor> I don't like next(). you can only call it once, right? it's a volatile interface.
+<linuxstb>      Yes - it is for the case when the mpeg thread has finished playing that track.
+<Zagor> I much prefer a counter that the play thread increases itself
+<linuxstb>      get_next_track could just increment a counter.
+<Linus> A agree with Zagor. But what to do when the playlist changes?
+<Bagder>        the playlist code must get to know when it plays the next track
+<Linus> That is, when the index is invalid
+<Zagor> Linus: give an example
+<linuxstb>      We should try and make the mpeg playing thread as "ignorant" as possible.
+<Linus> If the index is inceremented by the MPEG thread, when is it reset?
+<Zagor> in stop() ?
+<linuxstb>      How does the mpeg_thread know how many songs are in the playlist?
+<Linus> I doesn't
+<Zagor> it doesn't, and shouldn't
+<linuxstb>      if it increments a pointer, doesn't it need to know when to stop?
+<Zagor> yeah, when it gets NULL back
+<Linus> When it reads NULL fron the get() call it stops.
+<Zagor> :)
+<linuxstb>      I still think my API is more flexible.
+<Zagor> how?
+<Linus> So the "playlist" is read by the mpeg thread via get(index)?
+<linuxstb>      What if the playlist shrinks in size?
+<Bagder>        I don't understand Linus' and Björn's suggestion
+<Zagor> then it will get NULL immediately
+<Linus> It puts a little burden on the playlist code
+<Linus> To be able to index the list of tracks
+<Zagor> yes, I agree. it's not the perfect idea.
+<Linus> A question: does the UI create a playlist from the current directory automatically?
+<Bagder>        so how do the playlist code know which entry that plays right now?
+<linuxstb>      Linus: You (i.e. the mpeg thread) shouldn't care.
+<Zagor> peek(int index) is good, but I don't want get_next() to do the same. how about a next_track(void) that the play thread calls when the playthread moves into the next track
+<Linus> I know. I'm just trying to figure out if ZAgors idea is practical
+<Linus> Zagor: sounds OK
+<Bagder>        Zagor: right, we need something like that
+<linuxstb>      I believe that with my API, any type of UI can be implemented.
+<linuxstb>      Zagor - I agree.  All you are doing is changing the name of the function, not it's purpose.
+<Bagder>        well, these suggestsions aren't that different, if I'm understanding things
+<Zagor> linuxstb: actually, I don't want next_track() to tell which is the next track. only peek() is used for that.
+<linuxstb>      Zagor: sorry, I misunderstood.
+<Zagor> i want next_track() to only tell the playlist code that the playthread has advanced one step
+<linuxstb>      OK, what about get_track_name(n)
+<Zagor> then peek() can use a relative index instead of a counter. 0=current track, 1=next, 2=nextnext etc
+<Zagor> I think peek() is an ok name, actually
+<linuxstb>      But I think we now agree on functionality.
+<Zagor> sure, if you all agree with me. :*D
+<linuxstb>      I think I do.
+<Bagder>        basicly, after all, this is Dave's idea with a few minor changes :-)
+<Zagor> yes
+<Zagor> but it's good to just go through it, even if we just wind up where we started
+<Bagder>        right
+<Bagder>        linuxstb: are you updating your original suggestion according to all this?
+<linuxstb>      :-) OK.
+<Linus> I'll start coding an MPEG thread that supports this API
+<Bagder>        I just think it would be good to get it in "print"
+<Bagder>        neato
+<linuxstb>      I don't think I'll have time to do it immediately though.  Sorry.
+<Linus> Lazy bastard! :-)
+<linuxstb>      Work is calling...
+<Linus> Work? What is that?
+<linuxstb>      OK, I'll do something very quickly now and send to the list.  If I miss something, please modify my email.
+<Linus> Is there working code for the Player keys?
+<Zagor> I think so
+<Linus> Good.
+<Bagder>        Zagor: did you try your player app on target yet?
+<Zagor> no
+<Zagor> I was playing have-a-life all weekend :)
+<Bagder>        would be cool to know if it works
+<Linus> Zagor: you have a player app?
+<Bagder>        life?
+<Zagor> Linus: the file browser
+<Linus> Ah
+<Bagder>        yeah, you guys were missing here during the weekend ;-)
+<Linus> I know. I was alone with my kid. I had no time...
+<Linus> And when I joined the channel on saturday is was dead.
+<Zagor> Linus: an excellent opportunity for that old speech about the bits and the bytes
+<Linus> Three sleeping americans
+<Bagder>        oops ;-)
+<Bagder>        hahaha
+<Bagder>        "you see each byte consists of eight bits... "
+<Linus> Does joining the channel on a saturday night say something about not having a life...?
+<Bagder>        noooooo
+<Linus> Or trying to forget that you have one?
+<Linus> "So, Rasmus, it's time to sleep now."
+<Linus> "No, I don't want to:"
+<Linus> "SLEEP GODDAMMIT! I need to hack the rockbox!"
+---     Bagder has changed the topic to: Does your box rock? http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+<Linus> "But it's only 4am"
+<Linus> pm,
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs05v-8-132.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<alkorr>        hi
+<Bagder>        hi alkorr
+<alkorr>        the guy we found in internet (DSP guy) is unreachable ?
+<Zagor> no, he answered but declined
+<alkorr>        !?
+<alkorr>        NDA ?
+<Zagor> i didn't ask any technical questions, just if he wanted to help. and he said "not for free"
+<alkorr>        grrr...
+<Linus> Typical. A guy that has mouths to feed. :-)
+<Zagor> the youth of today... :-)
+<Bagder>        he probably thinks he has a life too! ;-P
+*       Bagder curses everyone that don't agree with us
+<alkorr>        well, in fact, what we need is some infos like assembly codes or some tools. Even such a thing is impossible for him ???
+<Zagor> the tools are proprietary. same with the docs...
+<alkorr>        if he doesn't want to code for us is not a matter for me
+<alkorr>        and he said "not for free"... a cracker ?
+<Zagor> that was not a quote. he said he was not interested in doing it as a spare time hobby project.
+<Zagor> doing it == helping
+<alkorr>        ok
+<alkorr>        what his email address ?
+<Linus> BOMB HIM! :_)
+<alkorr>        yaaah
+<linuxstb>      I've just emailed an updated API document to the list.  Please amend and publish on the website.
+<linuxstb>      Now I must do some work :-).
+<Zagor> alkorr: samar@winlab.rutgers.edu
+<Zagor> next_track() should be "void next_track(void)"
+<linuxstb>      Can someone else take responsibility for amendments?
+<Zagor> sure
+<linuxstb>      We also need to decide on the location of the functions - e.g. firmware/mpeg.h and firmware/playlist.h
+<Zagor> yes
+<Zagor> the mpeg code should probably stay in firmware, while the playlist code goes in apps
+<Zagor> now go work! ;)
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|lunch
+---     Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
+<--     alkorr has quit ()
+---     Linus|lunch is now known as Linus
+---     Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor
+<Linus> Yo guys!
+*       Bagder awakens and blinks
+<Linus> Do we really need the "bool" type? I think it's redundant.
+<Bagder>        it is redundant, I just kinda like having functions return 'bool' when they return only TRUE or FALSE
+<Zagor> umm... does anyone remember why we added it? ;)
+<Bagder>        we added it because code we added used it
+<Linus> What code
+<Bagder>        does it matter?
+<Linus> Just curious
+<Linus> I feel like killing the bool type.
+<Bagder>        I think it was Gary code
+<Bagder>        why "kill" it? does it harm anyone? ;-)
+<Linus> It's ugly.
+<Bagder>        what if we paint it in bright colours? ;-P
+<Zagor> it sort of flies in the face of the "no new types, just plain C" rule in CONTRIBUTING
+<Bagder>        we discussed it when I added it there
+<Linus> Having a type like that automatically makes people think that we HAVE to use it.
+<Bagder>        before CONTRIBUTING even existed :-)
+<Zagor> I know. and now we discuss it again. :-)
+<Bagder>        as I said, I am +1 on using and having bool
+<Bagder>        you may vote against me
+*       Zagor is undecided
+<Linus> I am definitely against.
+<Bagder>        I think it improves readability
+<Bagder>        a matter of taste and opinion no doubt
+<Zagor> well bool is part of the C99 specifiction, so I guess it should be considered as "plain C"
+<Bagder>        oh don't we just loooove C99 ;-)
+<Linus> Maybe I'm just old and cranky...
+<Bagder>        yes you are OOOOOLD
+<Zagor> but then we should use the built-in bool and not define it ourselves
+<Bagder>        no can do
+<Bagder>        we build with non-C99 compilers too
+<Zagor> yeah, the simulators. but not the target.
+<Bagder>        right
+<Zagor> so let the simulators define a bool if they need to
+<Bagder>        is the 2.95 one true C99 then?
+<Bagder>        not everyone uses gcc3 for target
+<Zagor> I don't know, but I've seen gcc C code use internal 'bool'. can't figure out how to enable it, though :-)
+<Bagder>        oh well, let's face the problem when we get it, not assuming it on beforehand
+<Zagor> yes
+*       Bagder noticed that edx edited out wavey's little C99'ism in the playlist code a week ago or so...
+<Zagor> what was that?
+<Bagder>        dynamic array alloc on stack
+<Bagder>        char buffer[foo];
+<Zagor> ah, yes. but that's bad code (tm) too.
+<Bagder>        it depends
+<Bagder>        now it makes a malloc() instead, which isn't a lot better
+<Zagor> well we have a lot more heap than stack :)
+<Bagder>        well, using memory in one pool or another
+<Zagor> gcc supports bool since 2.7.0, btw
+<Bagder>        ok
+<Linus> Zagor: your ATA/FAT code uses the stack for sector data.
+<Bagder>        how big stack are you running with atm?
+<Zagor> #include <stdbool.h> is the C99 way
+<Linus> 8K
+<Zagor> Linus: yes, it's imperfect but it's also fixed size
+<Linus> True
+<Linus> Forgot about the dynamic size. THAT is bad code (tm)
+<Zagor> but you're right, that should be changed
+<Bagder>        well, malloc() causes fragmentation, dynamic on the stack doesn't ;-)
+<Bagder>        *and* it is faster to get it and return it
+*       Bagder shuts up now
+<Linus> But that forces us to use a huge stack, chich is unused most of the time.
+<Bagder>        very true
+<Linus> And one huge stack per thread...
+<Zagor> stdbool.h defines "bool", "true" and "false"
+<Zagor> not TRUE and FALSE
+<Bagder>        #define TRUE true ;-)
+<Linus> Gaah!
+<Zagor> Linus: gaah what, the 'false' or the #define?
+<Linus> The define
+<Zagor> ah, agreed
+<Linus> But I think we should use true/false if we intend to be C99
+<Zagor> yes
+*       Bagder disagrees
+*       Linus waits for Bagders explanation
+<Zagor> go on
+<Bagder>        first, just because we can do C99 doesn't mean we have to
+<Linus> ok
+<Zagor> true
+<Bagder>        secondly, I am just so darned used to TRUE and FALSE and I like them that way ;-)
+<Linus> And I am used to BOOL and not bool
+<Linus> but i prefer int
+<Bagder>        BOOL?
+<Bagder>        windows? ;-)
+<Linus> Amiga
+<Zagor> linus wants VOID too
+*       Zagor hides
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Linus> It's actually quite common
+*       Linus slaps Zagor HARD
+*       Bagder can hardly remember Amiga programming ;-)
+<Zagor> I prefer 'hard'
+<Zagor> ;)
+<Linus> OK so if BOOL is wrong, why is bool right?
+<Linus> When there isn't a bool type in the first place
+<Bagder>        because bool is lowercase 
+<Linus> And having TRUE and FALSE doesn't force us to use a BOOL/bool type
+<Bagder>        no, they're not strictly related
+<Linus> I like int and TRUE and FALSE
+<Zagor> As the code police, I like to have firm ground to stand on when telling people not to create new types. 'bool' is built-in, which means we no longer create any new types.
+<Linus> That implies C99
+<Zagor> yes
+<Zagor> or, rather, gcc
+<Linus> I can go with that.
+<Linus> What I am against is user-defined types for no reason.
+<Bagder>        C99 or gcc rather
+<Zagor> I still reserve the right to refuse some other portions of C99 :)
+*       Linus loads his gun
+*       Bagder digs up the standard to write peculiar code ;-)
+*       Zagor changes all TRUE/FALSE to true/false
+<Linus> Officer Zagor: must we use bool, or is it at our convenience?
+<Zagor> If it's a bool, I say we should use a bool. it *does* make the API easier to read
+*       Bagder scores a point with the police ;-)
+*       Bagder is writing the greatest memory hog at work ;-)
+<Bagder>        incredibly stupid
+<Linus> Tell me
+<Bagder>        "follow the spec" ;-)
+<Bagder>        we have a built-in "registry" in our boxes
+<Bagder>        a hierarchal view of lots of settings
+<Bagder>        every program can register new "nodes" 
+<Bagder>        and the data is read/set with callbacks
+<Bagder>        quite neat, in general
+<Bagder>        now, this module we're working on that I'm writing this "registry" interface for is breaking all previous limits
+<Bagder>        it takes a lot to explain, but a modest calculation of used ram may end up on 30MB...
+<Bagder>        where we previously used ~3
+<Bagder>        for the complete system
+<Zagor> ooh, nice :)
+<Linus> Ouch!
+<Bagder>        it is beyond all sense
+<Linus> Code police: should we include "stdbool.h"?
+<Bagder>        connection.oDescription.X.destination.X.channel.X.sourceRoute.X
+<Bagder>        ... each X is a number between 0 and ... ;-)
+<Bagder>        say max 10, and we say 10.000 nodes ;-)
+<Zagor> Linus: yes
+*       Bagder sighs and gets back to work
+<Zagor> Bagder: never let reality come in the way of an elegant design! ;)
+<Bagder>        this is a perfect candidate for this
+<Bagder>        they smile very big when they think of this design ;-)
+<Bagder>        they won't smile as much when reality strikes back
+<Bagder>        you didn't change tetris
+<Zagor> i know, i changed the firmware first. fixing the simulator now.
+<Bagder>        nice
+<Zagor> dine
+<Zagor> done
+-->     irony (~irony@as2-5-7.j.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<irony> hello
+<Zagor> hi
+<Bagder>        hey irony
+<irony> hi Bagder 
+<Zagor> how's the web design going? ;)
+<irony> oh
+<irony> haven' put any effort in it really
+<irony> =)
+<irony> hey have you guys tried gentoo?
+<Zagor> nope
+<irony> I like it, really. I learned a lot form the install, since it's not "automagic"
+<irony> only downside is that it takes quite a while to install, since everything is compiled from scratch
+<Linus> What it gentoo?
+<irony> www.gentoo.org
+<irony> linux distribution
+<irony> with a ports-system
+<Zagor> it's a linux distro that compiles everything
+<irony> yep
+<irony> I like the approach, it's really cool.
+<irony> but kde takes a lifetime to compile, though.
+<Linus> Just upgrade your computer. :-)
+<Zagor> personally, I think it's unnecessary. but i'm glad it's there for those who want it.
+<irony> Linus: hehe
+-->     chris1 (~flanz@62.132.155.14) has joined #rockbox
+<irony> Zagor: Well, I can agree that a quick binary automatic install is better in one sense
+<irony> Butit is really nice to have the possibility of choosing and optimizing, even though one does not have extensive linux knowledge
+<chris1>        hi 
+<Linus> Hi!
+<Zagor> irony: curl -O package.tar.gz; tar xzf package.tar.gz; cd package; ./configure; make; make install
+<Zagor> it's not like it's difficult :-)
+<chris1>        Zagor your have checkin (id3.h) .)
+<Zagor> no, it didn't change. why?
+<Zagor> irony: It would be very nice if you could mail me the mockup webpage you did, so I can use the colors etc.
+<irony> Zagor: true...
+<irony> Zagor: but still
+<irony> i still like gentoo
+<chris1>        oh sorry , I have get the update now. I have test the compile from last th.day. The win32 build fail. this file was not found.
+<Zagor> nice for you :)
+<irony> I am trying xfs, does anyone have experiences?
+<Bagder>        chris1: it was present yesterday too...
+<irony> Zagor: it's just an image, but sure. Otherwise I might put some effort in and make a real page
+<irony> Zagor: just need to wait for kde to finish compiling
+<irony> :)
+<Zagor> ok, if you wish
+<Linus> Oh. A lifetime.
+<chris1>        bagder : I have se the log 2002/5/5 10:31:21 :)
+<irony> pretty I should have done this compiling over night
+<--     irony has quit ("Changing server")
+<--     chris1 has quit ("r")
+-->     edx (edx@pD9EA9D41.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<edx>   hi
+<Linus> yo
+<Zagor> hi
+*       edx has to leave again in a sek...
+<edx>   total-school-overload :P
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<Bagder>        you scared them away! ;-)
+<edx>   sorry
+<edx>   hehe
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<edx>   (meybe it was the word "school") lol
+<Bagder>        hehe
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Zagor> tunnel problems
+<edx>   arghl.. there i go again with the typing stuff (meybe = maybe)
+<edx>   .. gotta go - be back in like an hour. cu
+---     edx is now known as edx|away
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+<--     calpefrosch has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<alkorr>        i have a contact with this guy... i'm trying to have those opcodes, he could help to provide them
+<alkorr>        (DSP coder guy)
+<Zagor> ah, nice!
+<Zagor> gotta go. see you tomorrow, guys
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
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+<--     alkorr has quit ()
+*       Bagder takes off for home too
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+---     edx|away is now known as edx
+<--     wavey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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+<Bagder>        good evening
+<Linus> evening
+<Linus> Bagder: how is that malloc() going?
+<Bagder>        it is sitting here, I was under the impression it wasn't exactly needed
+<Linus> Just curious. I'm using the newlib malloc now, but I assume that we will use your malloc() in the future.
+<Bagder>        it would be interesting to run a comparison on them somehow
+<Linus> Perhaps.
+<Bagder>        I should probably start with adding the code and a couple of tests
+<Linus> Do so. How do you tell it where the pool is?
+<Bagder>        bmalloc_add_pool()
+<Bagder>          bmalloc_add_pool(thisisourheap, AMOUNT_OF_MEMORY);
+<Bagder>        it can in fact handle multiple pools
+<Linus> So it can have many pools?
+<Linus> OK
+<Bagder>        not that I think we need that
+<Linus> I think not.
+<Bagder>        committed
+<Linus> Great!
+<Bagder>        basicly 1400 lines of code for the lot
+<Linus> ooh
+<Bagder>        well, check the newlib one as comparison ;-)
+<Bagder>        Anja just got back home, I gotta go and talk to her
+<Bagder>        see ya
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     edx has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
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+<--     kjer (~kjer@h168n2fls21o1070.telia.com) has left #rockbox
+<edx>   cya guys
+<--     edx has quit ("good night")
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Zubster16 (none@pmchar1-45.rconnect.com) has joined #rockbox
+<Zubster16>     Hello
+<Zubster16>     anyone here?
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+
+-->     adiamas (~adiamas@216.194.26.28) has joined #rockbox
+---     Topic for #rockbox is Does your box rock? http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+---     Topic for #rockbox set by Bagder at Mon May 13 04:46:28
+-->     edx (edx@pD9EA9D41.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<edx>   morning :)
+---     edx is now known as edx|breakfast
+-->     calpefrosch (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has joined #rockbox
+<edx|breakfast> hi calpefrosch...
+---     edx|breakfast is now known as edx
+<--     edx has quit ("off for school")
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|work
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Zagor> hi all
+<Bagder>        morning
+<Bagder>        I added my malloc code yesterday as you probably noticed
+<Bagder>        in the test dir only so far
+<Bagder>        with about 8 new files, would you say a new firmware/memory/ directory is justified?
+<Zagor> hmm
+<Zagor> why so many files?
+<Bagder>        3 c, 3 h, two "docs"
+<Zagor> firmware/malloc seems a better name, imho
+<Bagder>        as long as it is only for malloc, yes ;-)
+<Zagor> what more do you want in there?
+<Bagder>        nothing, at the moment. I just thought that if it is named memory, future related additions could go in there
+<Bagder>        no big deal
+<Zagor> well if you put it in "common", we can put all kinds of things there :)
+<--     linuxstb has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+-->     linuxstb (dave@dsl-212-23-31-215.zen.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        does it make any sense to separate 20 bytes malloc() from 28 bytes malloc() ?
+*       Bagder doesn't think so
+<adiamas>       huh?
+<Zagor> umm, we need some context here
+<Bagder>        the smallest possible area that will be alloced is 20 bytes now
+<Bagder>        the next "bump" up is 28 bytes
+<adiamas>       got ya
+<Bagder>        and the next after that is 52
+<Zagor> we should probably do some profiling to determine the "bumps"
+<Bagder>        yeah, I should probably just leave them as they are for now
+<Zagor> yup
+<--     linuxstb has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+-->     linuxstb (dave@dsl-212-23-31-215.zen.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+*       Bagder spots that we're now only 227 days from completing the RC5-64
+<Zagor> Which will be ready first: A "dogfood" rockbox firmware or RC5-64? :)
+<Bagder>        a worthy race ;-)
+<adiamas>       a "dogfood"?
+<adiamas>       and what is RC5-64?
+<Zagor> http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/dogfood.html
+<Bagder>        http://stats.distributed.net/rc5-64/
+<Bagder>        and our team is here:
+<Bagder>        http://stats.distributed.net/rc5-64/tmsummary.php3?team=18241
+<Bagder>        RC5 is an encryption algorithm, the RC5-64 is a competion to find the key of a crypto, distributed on computer world wide
+<adiamas>       hhehehe k...
+<Bagder>        been going on for 1664 days today
+<adiamas>       hmmm one of yo umay know...
+<adiamas>       my display, font, size etc on my virtual terms (linux) is outta whack..
+<adiamas>       i think its releated to my libvga.config
+<adiamas>       but im not sure.. ideas?
+<Zagor> libvga?
+<Zagor> you're not using X11?
+*       Bagder has no good clue
+<Zagor> uh, ignore me
+<Zagor> :)
+<adiamas>       i am using X11
+*       Zagor reads "virtual terms" slowly, several times. Finally gets it.
+<adiamas>       but on my virtual terms....
+<adiamas>       yeah.. do: ctrl-alt-f4
+<Zagor> i've never had that problem
+<adiamas>       and imagine seeing 2 login prompts.. one at the top of the screen.. and another at the bottom :)
+<--     linuxstb has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<Zagor> adiamas: that ipaq question (on the mlist) should probably be added to the FAQ. I get it a lot.
+<Bagder>        he can take your upcoming and thorough reply and paste in ;-)
+<Zagor> hehe
+<calpefrosch|work>      I have an IPAQ too, and it would be cool to use the rockbox with it.
+<calpefrosch|work>      ähh, jukebox
+<Zagor> it would, indeed. so get started on a driver ;)
+<calpefrosch|work>      it's not my special subject ;-)
+<Bagder>        since it is just usb-storage, one would suspect that many people would be intersted in such a driver
+-->     wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        I mean, non-Archos ppl too
+<Bagder>        morning Stuart
+<Zagor> Bagder: indeed
+<wavey> howdy
+<Zagor> if someone would donate an ipaq to me, I'd consider looking into it :)
+<calpefrosch|work>      are you looking for someone special ?
+<Bagder>        for pocketpc?
+<Bagder>        I wouldn't ;-)
+*       calpefrosch|work holds his IPAQ tight
+<Zagor> bleh, no not for pocketpc. i'm not going anywhere near that.
+<calpefrosch|work>      there is a Linux for the IPAQ..
+<Zagor> yup, that's what I'd consider looking into
+<Zagor> however, I'm not about to trade in my vintage HP 200LX anytime soon
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        what year did you buy that?
+<Zagor> I can't remember. 1995 or something. it says "copyright 1992,1994" on the back :)
+<calpefrosch|work>      it's DOS ??
+<Zagor> yep
+<Zagor> MS-DOS 5.0
+<calpefrosch|work>      and you didn't install Linux on it?? ;-)
+<Zagor> no. It's got an 8086, so it's a bit limited. last time I checked, the state of the linux port was very raw
+<Bagder>        80186 isn't it?
+<Zagor> well it's some kind of NEC x86-compatible chip, I don't remember the exact model
+*       calpefrosch|work goes to work again
+<Zagor> 1 May 2002: FIRST EVER ELKS BETA!!!
+<Bagder>        doesn't *really* matter ;-)
+*       Zagor is downloading :)
+<Bagder>        elks?
+<Zagor> Embeddable Linux Kernel Subset - linux for the 8086
+<Bagder>        aaah
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        dr Linus!
+<Linus> yo
+<Linus> Doctor Linus. I like the sound of that! :-)
+<Bagder>        then you better start doing really good things
+<Bagder>        ;-)
+<Bagder>        after all, Torvalds *is* a "doctor Linus"
+<Linus> I actually have an almost working audio thread.
+<Linus> Bagder: I'm curious about the button interface
+<Bagder>        in what way?
+<Linus> The simulator code reads the buttons and sleep for 1 tick in a loop. Shouldn't that be handled with a message queue?
+<Bagder>        perhaps
+<Linus> Or is it hard to simulate?
+<Bagder>        the code reading the keys should run on the timer interrupt, shouldn't it?
+<Linus> I believe so
+<Linus> and post to a queue when a button is pressed>/released
+<Bagder>        so we better do the correct thing for the target code first, and then we adjust the similator to work similarly
+<Linus> I'll do that
+<Bagder>        as you might've seen, I've added the malloc code to the firmware/malloc dir now
+<Bagder>        it should be possible to use
+<Linus> Great.
+<Bagder>        it needs one init call and one bmalloc_add_pool()
+<Linus> ok
+<--     wavey has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+---     Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
+-->     wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+-->     dwihno (dwihno@Bald067.Baldakinen.Umea.SE) has joined #rockbox
+<dwihno>        God förmiddag
+<dwihno>        Ingen vaken? :/
+---     Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor
+<Linus> helo
+<Zagor> hi there. english here
+<Linus> fast vi är svenskar
+<Linus> några av oss
+<dwihno>        Okay
+*       Zagor slaps Linus
+<dwihno>        I obey
+<Linus> ouch!
+<dwihno>        Anyways, looking for reviews regarding the archos players, I stumbled across the rockbox page :)
+<Zagor> welcome :-)
+<Linus> Many people do
+<dwihno>        Since I've been reading a couple of reviews pinpointing the software as a design flaw, I got interested to know more about the device :)
+<Linus> Shoot
+<Zagor> well i guess there's a few nights' worth of reading on the webpage :-)
+<dwihno>        *sha-baam*
+<dwihno>        hehe
+<dwihno>        What kind of batteries?
+<Zagor> AA NiMH
+<dwihno>        Is the sound quality good or bad? Signal-to-noise ratio etc...
+<Linus> 1.2V NiMH
+<dwihno>        Is it possible to find replacement batteries without travelling to asia :) ?
+<Zagor> sound quality is very good on the recorder, fairly good on the player
+<Linus> The batteries are common
+<Zagor> you can buy them in any hobby shop
+<dwihno>        Since you have been working on the software for quite some time, what is your personal opinions about the devices?
+<Linus> I bough mine at Teknikmagasinet
+<Zagor> we love them!
+<Zagor> some design flaws, but in general the flexibility that comes from using standard parts is really nice
+<Linus> Although they have saved maybe one penny too much on some parts of the hardware
+<dwihno>        ah, okay
+<dwihno>        I am considering the 20gb recorder model
+<Zagor> good choice
+<Linus> Good choice
+<Zagor> echo
+<Linus> cho cho...
+<dwihno>        but the software part makes me a bit ... worried :)
+<Zagor> that's what we're here for ;)
+<dwihno>        :D
+<Linus> Don't be alarmed. it's not that bad
+<Zagor> no, it's quite alright
+<dwihno>        All reviews screaming about the "bad sound quality", are they just using bad headphones? Because I HATE hiss-noises when listening to music
+<Zagor> that depends
+<Zagor> many reviews only listened to very early model players, which had bad sound quality. that was fixed in a firmware upgrade over a year ago
+<dwihno>        ah, okay
+<dwihno>        How about skipping?
+*       Bagder returns with a cup of steaming coffee
+<Zagor> but there is a buzz problem in the recorder, that I don't know if they have fixed yet
+<dwihno>        Does the buffer prevent it 100%?
+<dwihno>        buzz problem?
+<Zagor> no, you'll get skipping if you take it jogging, for example
+<Linus> I have no problem with skipping
+<Zagor> this is not a device for the ski bumps :)
+<Linus> But since it is a hard drive you must be careful with it.
+<Linus> But you don't want to go jogging with it. It is too heavy for that, IMHO
+<dwihno>        ah, okay
+<dwihno>        for walking, the buffer is sufficient?
+<Zagor> sometimes, the recorder emits a quiet buzz sound that seems to come from the screen update. we're trying to address that in our firmware.
+<Bagder>        dwihno: it is
+<Linus> Haven't had a skip yet
+<dwihno>        Are there any big differences between the recorder and studio models? As far as I know, there are only these two models of the player (with different sizes...)?
+<Zagor> big differences
+<Zagor> the recorder has a much better screen, more keys and better sound
+<dwihno>        the recorder has recording abilities? :) what else? :)
+<dwihno>        ah, more keys
+<Linus> The recorder has a newer, better, MP3 decoder chip
+<dwihno>        I love keys
+<dwihno>        the price difference is slim, only $30-40
+<Linus> More sound tweaking parameters
+<Zagor> the big difference is the screen. the studio is a 11x2 character display, the recorder is a 112x64 bitmap display
+<dwihno>        How often does the recorder-buzz-noise appear?
+<Bagder>        there won't be any tetris on the studio!
+<Linus> The Tetris is awful on the Studio
+<dwihno>        So the studio is more like a low-budget (older perhaps) model?
+<Linus> Yup
+<dwihno>        I read about that tetris game, that was a quite fun thingy :)
+<Zagor> dwihno: look here: http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/devcon/show.cgi?img4083.jpg
+<dwihno>        BIG difference! :O
+<Zagor> yeah
+<Linus> And the USB2.0 interface ROCKS!
+<dwihno>        I'm impressed with the rate of progress you guys are making with the replacement firmware :) Who got the idea rolling in the first place?
+<Zagor> it sure does
+<Bagder>        usb2 is schweeeet
+<Linus> It was Zagors idea
+*       Bagder blames Zagor
+<Bagder>        we did nothing ;-)
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Linus> I just sit and watch
+<dwihno>        Zagor = Björn, right?
+<Zagor> yes
+<dwihno>        ah...
+<Linus> Zagör
+<dwihno>        I've heard about you in other places :)
+<dwihno>        Hey, we got a celebrity here! :D
+<Zagor> oh?
+<Linus> That must be Björn Borg
+<Zagor> C64?
+<Bagder>        muaahahaha
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<Linus> Zagor is curious
+<dwihno>        I can't remember, but the words Björn. haxx, and Daniel(?) rings a bell somewhere deep inside my head
+*       Bagder hides
+*       Linus feels left out
+<Zagor> heh, yeah we've got our fingers into quite a number of projects... :-)
+<dwihno>        Linus: <Linus> I just sit and watch <-- suit yourself ;)
+<Bagder>        I tried "Stenberg" on google
+<Linus> :-)
+<Bagder>        I'm only number four
+<Linus> Try Nielsen Feltzing
+<dwihno>        correction, you're the third
+<Bagder>        ;-)
+<Linus> First hit: Rockbox :-)
+<dwihno>        YEAH! :D
+<dwihno>        All your rockbox are belong to archos! :D
+<dwihno>        Speaking of which, have they contacted you?
+<Zagor> we've practically invaded google :)
+<Bagder>        we own google
+<Zagor> nope. I don't expect they will, either
+<dwihno>        A project this big might draw some attention
+<dwihno>        "Stop the project or die" :)
+<Zagor> yeah, we'll see
+<Bagder>        that would be slightly amusing ;-)
+<Zagor> they don't have much to go on, though. this is all clean and legal
+<Bagder>        ...until they send guys gome to us with large aluminum bats
+<Linus> If our firmware is better thet theirs, it will certainly be embarassing
+<Zagor> "if"? ;)
+<Bagder>        when
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<Linus> "when"
+<dwihno>        It's just a question of time
+<Bagder>        exactly
+<dwihno>        The web page is up to date with all the green and yellow marked features?
+<Zagor> yup
+<dwihno>        may 8
+<dwihno>        boot loader?
+<Bagder>        we should make the tree.c yellow
+<Bagder>        and add a link to the API docs embryo
+<Linus> The boot loader is for loading different firmwares
+<dwihno>        ah, okay
+<Linus> games, the Archos original firmware etc
+<Bagder>        web browser, pdf reader... :-P
+<Linus> Movie player
+<dwihno>        Hey, as long as you can watch pr0n jpeg's in BW I'm satisfied ;D
+<Linus> You want the video Archos
+<Bagder>        right, we need a jpeg decoder
+<Zagor> with scrolling :)
+<Linus> Lots of scrolling
+<dwihno>        heh
+<dwihno>        bicubic interpolation is all you need
+<Bagder>        we just use a large screen buffer and lcd_update() with an x,y
+<Bagder>        I already considered this actually ;-)
+<Zagor> i'm moving the simulators to GREEN. they do work, after all
+<dwihno>        hah :) cool
+<dwihno>        yay! tree is yellow now! :D
+<Bagder>        Zagor: right
+<Linus> tree.c has a bad link
+<Zagor> ah, fixing
+<Bagder>        add the API docs link too
+<Linus> BTW, what do I have to do to get system.c green?
+<dwihno>        How do you browse tracks and such on the player? Do you have a tree view of all files?
+<Linus> Rewrite it, I know...
+<Linus> The tree is quite small on a 2x11 screen :-)
+<dwihno>        Is it possible to make play an entire directory without playlists?
+<dwihno>        In short: how is the user interface on the archos? :)
+<Linus> You mean the Archos original firmware?
+<dwihno>        yeah
+<dwihno>        If you want to, you can tell me about your own implementation of the directory browsing (or however it works) :)
+<Linus> In the origina, you can create playlists that consists of an entire directory tree with a simple button press
+<Bagder>        we will make everything *perfect* ;-)
+<Linus> Bagder is right
+<Linus> Wa are *cool*
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<dwihno>        YOU OWNZZZZ! :D
+*       Bagder giggles
+<dwihno>        Where in .se do you buy it for the best price?
+<Linus> R000lz
+<Linus> I dont know
+<PsycoXul>      dwihno: i've been thinking about all these things since before i got my archos, and watching these guys progress and they're doing it all just right
+*       Bagder doesn't know either
+*       Linus blushes
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<Bagder>        I bought my Archos solely for the purpose of running OUR software
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<dwihno>        You mean, playing tetris and storing jpeg's? :)
+<Linus> I bought mine to listen to music
+<Bagder>        music is secondary to me
+<Linus> I have two
+*       Zagor has three :)
+<Bagder>        haha
+<Linus> One developer machine and one music machine
+<Bagder>        and the winner is... 
+<Linus> Zagor cheats
+<dwihno>        ZAGOR! For almighty ownzage ;D
+<Zagor> it's not cheating, it's called "outside assistance" ;)
+<dwihno>        Yeah, you got a 6000 model you lucky bastard :)
+<Linus> Threatening a poo frenchman to get his player. That's low.
+<PsycoXul>      i decided to get one to run other firmware on it before your first LCD scroller release heh
+<PsycoXul>      i just knew these devices were gonna do more than they were being sold as
+<dwihno>        What is left to do before the first release of the firmware?
+<Linus> The 6000/studio model will be the first target for our firmware
+<Zagor> dwihno: basically tying it all together
+<Linus> I have some things to do with the MPEG playing code
+<Zagor> some more MP3 playback work, a bit more UI tweaks
+<Linus> But it plays music
+<dwihno>        The 4 second boundary has been broken? :)
+<Linus> Indeed. It plays from hard disk
+<dwihno>        How did you play 4 seconds btw?
+<Linus> Loading 128K of MP3 data via the debugger
+<Bagder>        that "news" section on the web site could mention this
+<dwihno>        I can do documentation! :D
+<Linus> Great!
+<dwihno>        I want to be a part of the phenomenon!
+<Linus> Please join
+<Bagder>        we could use that
+<Bagder>        we need all the help we can get
+<dwihno>        Do you have any kind of screenshots of the firmware I can see? :)
+<Linus> There is no firmware yet... :-(
+<Bagder>        we have simulators
+<dwihno>        ah, okay
+<dwihno>        Is it possible to test it on win32?
+<Linus> yes
+<Linus> but I wouldn't call it "test"
+<Bagder>        but there's no binary available for download
+<Bagder>        only source in CVS 
+<dwihno>        damn, I have no development enviromnent setup here :/
+<Linus> you can always suck up to the win32 developers on this channel
+<Bagder>        we should ask the win32 guys to start making "releases"
+<dwihno>        BTW, the USB2 interface is backwards-compatible, right+
+<dwihno>        ?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Zagor> yes
+<Bagder>        1.1 works fine too
+<Linus> We should have a Java simulator too. Then we could have it as an applet on the web page! :-)
+<Zagor> haha
+<dwihno>        1.1?
+<Bagder>        usb1.1
+<Linus> USB1.1
+<Zagor> yeah, that'd be easy. just one monster of a JNI hack ;)
+<dwihno>        Is USB 1.1 the standard of all computers? :)
+<Bagder>        yes
+<dwihno>        ah
+<dwihno>        Is there USB 1.0?
+<Linus> i don't think so
+<dwihno>        hm
+<dwihno>        maybe in some stoneage computer
+<dwihno>        a long long time ago, in a taiwanese bunker far away
+<Zagor> they never released 1.0. I think it had 1.5Mbit speed
+<dwihno>        What is the speed of 1.1?
+<Linus> oooh.
+<dwihno>        12?
+<Zagor> yes, 12
+<dwihno>        and for 2.0? 4xx ?
+<Zagor> 480
+<dwihno>        New DSP algoritms.... What do you have planned?
+<Zagor> whatever we can get. OGG, WAV etc
+<dwihno>        ah, okay
+<PsycoXul>      i talked to somebody in #vorbis about ogg
+<dwihno>        I read in the FAQ, that WAV would be unsupported :)
+<PsycoXul>      on the hardware
+<dwihno>        How about reading mpeg streams of sounds from ... let's say ... divx's
+<dwihno>        Would that be possible?
+<PsycoXul>      he said it *might* be possible between the sh1 and the mas
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Linus> I think so. As long as the sound is MP3
+<Linus> It's just a matter of reading the files
+<dwihno>        yeah
+<PsycoXul>      not very optimistically thought... if it possible, likely it is for the recorder only
+<Linus> Playing wav files with 48kHz stereo will not be possible on the Player without compression
+<dwihno>        In what way?
+<Linus> The serial line between the CPU and the decoder is too slow
+<dwihno>        ah, okay
+<Linus> 1mbit/s
+<Linus> But the recorder has a parallel connection
+<Linus> so it should be possible
+<Linus> however, the burden on the DMA will be high
+<Linus> And the CPU will be wuite busy
+<Linus> quite
+<dwihno>        ah
+<Linus> But never say never. it has a fairly low priority at the moment...
+<dwihno>        We can dream about it :)
+<PsycoXul>      22khz 16bit stereo or 44khz 16bit mono should be possible on the player, and anything less, right? those are only around 700kbps
+<Linus> indeed
+<Linus> PsycoXul: i believe so
+<PsycoXul>      but then it seems to have problems playing high bitrate mp3's so that might not be the limiting factor either
+<Linus> That is a CPU problem I think
+<dwihno>        How about funny file formats like MOD's, and emulating SID and stuff? :)
+<Linus> Hold your horses!
+<dwihno>        Or am I all away in the blue now? :)
+<Bagder>        "blue sky alert, take cover"
+<Linus> As long as we don't have WAV playing we can't generate any other sound than MP3
+<dwihno>        Rockbox - Making our dreams come true ;D
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Bagder>        Rockbox - what do you want to play tomorrow?
+<Linus> But as soon as we have PCM we surely can dream about MOd and stuff
+<dwihno>        Yeah
+<dwihno>        Before building the house, it is nice to have some bricks :)
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<PsycoXul>      if we can have pcm
+<Linus> and the COU isn't exactly a monster
+<Linus> CPU
+<PsycoXul>      it would have to be fairly low-quality
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: have you published the code for double-height text?
+-->     kjer (~kjer@h168n2fls21o1070.telia.com) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> kjer!
+<Linus> heloo Kjell
+<kjer>  Hallo!
+<Linus> I noticed that you joined yesterday evening too
+*       Bagder moos at Kjell
+<PsycoXul>      Zagor: hmm
+<kjer>  Yup, but it was just for testing. Then I rebooted...
+<Linus> Windows, eh?
+<dwihno>        You need some cool slogan for the Rockbox project
+*       Linus NEEDS coffee!
+<kjer>  I tried to install Linux, but I get a missing irq for one harddisk I have... Redhat 7.3 :-(
+<Bagder>        mmm coffee
+<Zagor> missing irq?? never heard that before.
+<dwihno>        Me neither
+<kjer>  Me neither - but I sure got it...
+<PsycoXul>      Zagor: iirc all i did was lcd_write(0x9,0) and then put the text up like normal... i'd have to check that though, and i haven't done it with the new codebase yet
+<dwihno>        Redhat was equipped with IRQ-detection-obfuscation code from M$, I presume :)
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: could you check? I'd like to use it as startup-logo for the firmware
+<PsycoXul>      Zagor: it was simple, and i found it in the pdf on the player's LCD on your site heh
+<Zagor> ok :)
+<Zagor> i think we've been over this before once... ;)
+<dwihno>        Do you have the logo in a appropriate format for the recorder yet? :)
+<Zagor> yes
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<dwihno>        Ah, another question... Is there much of a difference between the firmwares in the players?
+<PsycoXul>      i tried to convert it to custom chars for the player's LCD, but it was *extremely* ugly and took more chars than you can define heh
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<Bagder>        I wanted to write a GIMP save-plugin for our bitmap format, but I couldn't find out how to do it...
+<Zagor> dwihno: the player and recorder uses totally different firmware. we will make two separate versions.
+<PsycoXul>      but i did find that you can set custom chars into double-height mode, so with a little creativity you can design some things like that...
+<Bagder>        so I'm considering adding code to read some well-known format
+<Zagor> xbm?
+<Bagder>        xbm is not our format
+<dwihno>        Zagor: ah, too bad.
+<PsycoXul>      it is for the player
+<Zagor> no, but it's a source format that's easily converted
+<dwihno>        Zagor: That would save a heapload of time
+<PsycoXul>      at least it used to be heh
+<Bagder>        Zagor: well, "easily" at least :-)
+<Zagor> dwihno: well much code will be shared anyway so it's not a big problem. but they use different hardware so we need different drivers.
+<Bagder>        Linus: do you have any bpm format reader code left anywhere?
+<Zagor> http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/rockbox112.gif   <--- recorder logo
+<Linus> Yes I do
+<dwihno>        Are the batteries shipped with the player good enough for usage, or should they be replaced on arrival? I've read it is hell'ish to replace the batteries :/
+<Bagder>        Linus: wouldn't that be useful?
+<Linus> If you mean BMP
+<Bagder>        uh, yes
+<Zagor> they are fine, and simple to replace
+<dwihno>        aww... how cute :)
+*       Linus looks in his toy box
+<PsycoXul>      they come with 2 whole sets
+<Linus> Baaah. It is only a BMP writer.
+<dwihno>        Japanese batteries suck :)
+*       Linus looks again
+<PsycoXul>      i got mine for xmas and i still get ~10 hour playtimes on the first set
+<PsycoXul>      but they seem to have supplied different batteries to different people so i can't speak for what you get
+<PsycoXul>      mine are green and have 1600mAh printed on them
+<Linus> Did you also get 8 batteries?
+<Linus> I did
+<Bagder>        seems that's standard
+<Zagor> my first unit had 1200mAh, I think
+<Zagor> i'm using 1800 now
+<dwihno>        I got a BMP reader thingy
+<dwihno>        Although I need to clean it from windows dependant code
+<dwihno>        <shame on me>
+<Bagder>        dwihno: hey, a golden opportunity to join in! ;-)
+<dwihno>        YAY :D
+<dwihno>        a golden shower
+<dwihno>        erhm...
+<Linus> Bagder: I found it. Mailing...
+<dwihno>        Zagor: How much does 1800mAh batteries affect play time?
+<dwihno>        You get much extra time? :)
+---     dwihno is now known as dw|bbl
+<Zagor> i haven't done any timed measurements, but I get a lot.
+<Bagder>        Linus: this code is quite perfect
+<Linus> Good. It's only monochrome, but that is what we want
+<Bagder>        right
+<Bagder>        I'll "port" it for our use
+<Zagor> I'm removing firmware/disk.* for now
+<Zagor> it's just dummy code anyway
+<Linus> Finally.
+<Zagor> Bagder: I get a compiler warning for line 558 of dmalloc.c
+<Zagor> is it ok if I break out the prevsize assignment from the "if" and put it above?
+<Bagder>        yes, but then it'll be assigned unnecessary at times
+<Zagor> really? the condition is &&, which means it will always be executed
+<Zagor> no?
+<Bagder>        no
+<Bagder>        only if the first equals true
+<Zagor> uh, no. i'm silly
+<Bagder>        but the assignment could probably be moved into the block below
+<Zagor> yes, that'd remove the warning
+<Bagder>        how did you get the warning?
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Bagder>        -W was missing
+<Zagor> you can reach "if (prevsize > qinfo[0])" without initialzing prevsize
+<Bagder>        how?
+<Zagor> ah, there's still a problem with the prevsize -= 
+<Bagder>        right
+<Bagder>        there's a problem
+<Zagor> if memblock was true, then the assigment would never execute
+<Zagor> will you fix this? it's better than me following your instructions. also, how about indenting the code ;)
+<Bagder>        I'll fix
+<Bagder>        I honestly can't see why gcc need both -W and -Wall to show all warnings
+<Zagor> no, it's a bit odd
+<Zagor> are you using 2.96?
+<Bagder>        no, 3.0.3
+*       Bagder committed
+<Bagder>        back to bmp.c
+<Bagder>        hm
+<Linus> hm?
+<Bagder>        it barfs hard
+<Bagder>        error - Bitmap is too wide (9472 pixels, max is 112)
+<Linus> ooh missing something?
+<Linus> haha
+<Bagder>        could it be that my bmp is compressed and this code doesn't grok that?
+---     dw|bbl is now known as dwihno
+<dwihno>        tra la la
+<Linus> Could be. BMP compression is all but fun
+<Linus> It is really, and i mean really silly
+<Linus> dont even try
+<Linus> save it uncompressed
+<Linus> you should also check the endianness
+<Linus> That code runs on an intel CPU
+<dwihno>        Check if the indian is BIG or small
+<Linus> :-)
+<dwihno>        Linus is a big indian
+<dwihno>        And I'm a motorola indian :)
+<dwihno>        Hey, I got another question :-)
+<Linus> shoot
+<dwihno>        Linux does not require extra software, except some kernel patch for USB2, right?=
+<dwihno>        What about win2k?
+<dwihno>        Does it require software drivers or does it work out of the box?
+<Linus> I think win2k needs drivers, but I don't know
+<Linus> try :-)
+<Bagder>        I got all sorts of win-drivers with my usb2 card
+<Linus> Linux needs a lot of work on the USB2.0 support
+<Zagor> Linus: needs? it works just fine for me.
+*       Bagder tries to find a 'convert' option that saves a bmp uncompressed
+<Linus> Well, for example the timeout issue on the ISD300
+<--     kjer has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<dwihno>        Hm
+<Zagor> that's an Archos issue
+<dwihno>        Does the archos usb thingies incorporate 30 tons of extra gayness software?
+<Linus> not at all
+<Zagor> but yes, it has bugs and is being improved. still I think it works good.
+<Linus> well they include a lame MP3 coder software
+*       Zagor has never opened the CD that came with his Archos
+<dwihno>        musicmatch studioGay
+<Linus> exactly
+<dwihno>        Zagor: and you installed the Archos on win2k?
+<dwihno>        or are you 100% linuxer?
+<Bagder>        can anyone send me that little rockbox logo in uncompressed bmp format?
+<Linus> Don't insult him!
+<Zagor> dwihno: no, I only use linux
+<Linus> Well Zagor, how about Coiunter-Strike?
+<Linus> CONFESS!
+<Zagor> yes, I have a small win95 partition (4 gig) for playing counter-strike
+<Linus> Gotcha!
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Zagor> I once tried updating to win98, but it started freezing my machine so I went back to win95. :-)
+<dwihno>        Counter-gay! :D
+<dwihno>        Counter-Strike is quite addictive :)
+<Linus> so you returned your Win98 CD to the shop, right. :-)
+<Zagor> Linus: yeah, right
+<dwihno>        I can't live without DTP, games and such. That's why I'm a WinLoser
+<dwihno>        What is the resolution of the recorder?
+<Bagder>        112 x 64
+-->     kjer (~kjer@h168n2fls21o1070.telia.com) has joined #rockbox
+<dwihno>        ah
+<dwihno>        good enough for bitmap viewers :)
+<dwihno>        How much memory do you have to play around with? :)
+<Linus> 2Mb
+<dwihno>        that's a shitload! :D
+<Linus> no
+<Linus> not for mp3 buffering
+<dwihno>        Nah, but for doing other neat stuff :)
+<dwihno>        Like loading bitmaps
+<Linus> indeed
+<Zagor> divx viewer :)
+<dwihno>        hehe
+<dwihno>        Zagor: Come down back down to earth! :)
+<dwihno>        I'm the one with perverted dreams in the sky, remember? :)
+*       Zagor his soaring high :)
+<Zagor> is, even
+<dwihno>        First we need jpeg viewer for the pr0n on the disk...
+<dwihno>        Some ascii viewer would be really neat
+<dwihno>        and some kind of basic editor
+<dwihno>        then, MOD support, then SID :)
+<Bagder>        I got an uncompressed bmp now, it still makes no sense
+<Bagder>        byter order is not the problem
+<dwihno>        Bagder: 4 bit bitmap?
+<Bagder>        8 bit palette
+<Bagder>        no compression
+<dwihno>        okay
+<dwihno>        strange
+<Bagder>        it is
+<dwihno>        I had some problems getting 8 bit palettes working with windows
+<dwihno>        It's not like the good old mode 13h days
+<dwihno>        Time to make coffee - I got the great responsibility today ;D
+<Bagder>        well, I read the header first, it is enough, it doesn't look good
+<dwihno>        You got the structs?
+<Linus> Bagder: the palette should be 2 entries.
+<Bagder>        right
+<Bagder>        but the header gets wrong when I read it
+<Bagder>        hm
+<Bagder>        I need it packed 
+<Linus> padding?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        what's the gcc keyword, you know?
+<dwihno>        erhm
+<dwihno>        dunno
+<Zagor> packed
+<Zagor> attribute packed
+<dwihno>        printf("Hello\n");
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<Linus> Or -fpack-struct
+<dwihno>        m
+<dwihno>        hmm
+<dwihno>        What does that do?
+<Bagder>        now this is better ;-)
+<Linus> Makes the compiler to not align integers
+<Bagder>        still need to swap a lot of bytes on Sparc
+<dwihno>        ah, okay
+<Linus> ooo. boring
+<Bagder>        Size = 1712586752
+<Bagder>        ;-)
+<Linus> you will need to swap in target as well
+<dwihno>        :D
+<Zagor> don't use bmp
+<Bagder>        Zagor: when you write the code, you get to decide ;-)
+<Linus> ...because...
+<Zagor> because bmp is evil and silly
+<Linus> ...because...
+<Linus> I agree with the silly part, though
+<Zagor> XBM or PPM is lots better and simpler
+<Bagder>        not for winlosers
+<Bagder>        to save as
+<dwihno>        True
+<dwihno>        There are photoshop plugins
+<Zagor> well, TIF then?
+<dwihno>        Or some cool format like TGA! :D
+<Zagor> whatever is not designed by 4-yearolds
+<dwihno>        "Yeah, listen to dwihno, TGA is great!"
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<Linus> Zagor: can you say unisys?
+<Bagder>        hey, I'm not against any format, just write the decoder...
+<Zagor> Linus: don't compress
+<Linus> Ok then
+<Zagor> but seriously, can't photoshop save any sane format?
+<Bagder>        it isn't just about saving
+<Bagder>        it is about decoding right now
+<Zagor> PPM and XBM are both really simple to decode
+<Zagor> i'll mail you my ppm2c util
+<Linus> TIF is not a format. It's an operating system!
+<Bagder>        I doubt win users can save ppm
+<Linus> What a blob!
+<Zagor> ok, I admit I don't know anything about TIF
+<dwihno>        Bagder: In photoshop with some extra plugin, it is possible
+<Bagder>        ok
+<Linus> TIF is just a framework for embedding a myriad of other formats
+<Bagder>        I still intend to make this bmp decoder work
+<Linus> Do so. You have my support
+<dwihno>        How much did you pay for your archoses?
+<Bagder>        uh
+*       Bagder doesn't really know ;-)
+<Linus> The TIFF specification is 121 pages!!!
+<dwihno>        Read my lips: T G A
+<dwihno>        :)
+<Zagor> how should we handle shared code btwn the recorder and player apps? keep in in player and just link to it in the recorder Makefile?
+<Zagor> id3.c, playlist.c etc.
+<Linus> The TGA format spec is only 29 pages.
+<Bagder>        Zagor: let's just have two makefiles and specify all files included in both of them
+<dwihno>        Makefile:s are sexy
+<Zagor> Bagder: but where are the files? in apps/player/ ?
+<Bagder>        which files?
+<Bagder>        the makefileS?
+<Zagor> id3.c and playlist.c, for instance
+<Bagder>        they could be in apps/
+<Zagor> the root?
+<Bagder>        yes, for general files
+<Bagder>        or else a dir for general files
+<Zagor> but they are only general for mp3 playing applications, not for games etc
+<Linus> oooooh "common"
+<Bagder>        then it should be a general mp3 dir
+<Zagor> I feel it's better that one of the two player apps link to the other's source files
+<Linus> Are you sure about that?
+<Linus> Does CVS handle links?
+<Bagder>        it doesn't make much sense if a game wants to play mp3
+<Zagor> id3.o: ../player/id3.c
+<Bagder>        since then the games would also need those files etc
+<Zagor> but id3 and playlist are not useful for games
+<Linus> id3.o: ../../common/id3.c
+<Bagder>        mp3/id3.c
+<Bagder>        or tracks/id3.c
+<Zagor> then we're polluting the apps module with non-apps directories from the get-go
+<Linus> Zagor: i don't follow
+<Bagder>        me personally, I think the 'apps' dir mainly is for the main firware app
+<Linus> I agree
+<Zagor> no
+<Zagor> it's for all applications
+<Zagor> otherwise, we can just keep working in "firmware"
+<Bagder>        in my mind, firware is the low level software
+<Bagder>        the app is built ontop
+<Zagor> apps is for tetris, picview, screensaver, the two player firmwares etc.
+<Linus> I can buy that
+<Linus> But I think that common code should be placed in a "neutral" place
+<Bagder>        but then you can't have 'player' and 'recorder' dir in apps
+<Zagor> define "common"
+<Bagder>        as they're not apps
+<Zagor> all code can be reused by other projects
+<Zagor> Bagder: sure they are
+<Bagder>        if tetris is an app, how can player be one too? 
+<Zagor> they are two separate archos.mod files. load one to play tetris, load the other to play mp3s
+<Bagder>        they're bundled today
+<Linus> I don't like that
+<Zagor> in the simulator, yes. i don't think we should have it like that in target
+<Bagder>        the bundle?
+<--     kjer has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<Bagder>        why not?
+<Linus> the bundle
+<Bagder>        why not play tetris while listening to music?
+<Linus> I see your point
+<dwihno>        Tetris + music sounds sexy
+<Bagder>        sure, you can opt out
+<dwihno>        I get turned on by the idea
+<Zagor> ok, yeah, it's an option. but still, the point of the apps dir is to allow separate apps the same level of abstraction.
+<Bagder>        well, my point would be that we'll end up building many output targets, many more than just player and recorder, and therefore it makess little sense to keep files in directories named like that
+<Bagder>        still, I don't mind very much
+<Bagder>        we'll change it later 
+<Linus> I would still like to easily identify which files go with which app
+<Linus> having them in separate directories helps
+<Zagor> that's my thinking too
+<Bagder>        not if the makefiles refer to them ../../blabla
+<Bagder>        it spoils that completely
+<Linus> But you don't want shared files in an easily identified place?
+<Bagder>        yes I do
+<Bagder>        but that is not in player/
+<Bagder>        or recorder/
+<Linus> I asked Zagor, sorry
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Zagor> well then point is these two files are only shared between "player" and "recorder". not with "picview", "bookreader", "screensaver" etc. so it's not a "common" dir that makes sense.
+<Zagor> s/then/my/
+<Linus> Maybe not those two files
+<Linus> I was talking in general
+<Zagor> don't :)
+<Linus> haha
+<Zagor> ok, how about this:
+<Zagor> apps/mp3, apps/mp3/player apps/mp3/recorder
+<Linus> nah
+<Linus> makes tetris even more "difficult" to include in the mp3 firmware
+<dwihno>        apps/video/jpgviewer
+<dwihno>        apps/utils/textviewer
+<Zagor> Linus: why?
+*       Linus sees the "plugins" directory coming
+<Zagor> dwihno: it makes little sense to create categories before we even have the applications. :)
+<Linus> tetris.o: ../../../tetris/tetris.c
+<Zagor> Linus: why are you putting tetris.c in ../../../ ?
+<dwihno>        Zagor: True, I'm just being an idésprutare :)
+<Zagor> dwihno: :)
+<Linus> Zagor: it's an app, isn't it?
+<Zagor> Linus: you just said it wasn't
+<dwihno>        What do I need to write a module to the firmware?
+<Linus> but you said it was
+<Linus> or did i misunderstand
+<Zagor> did not, did too...
+<Linus> :-)
+<Zagor> dwihno: lots of patience, currently :)
+<Linus> and an "app" directory
+<dwihno>        Zagor: Ah, okay, well, I haven't even ordered myself an Archos yet ;)
+<Zagor> hehe
+<dwihno>        How about audio output levels? Is it good?
+<Linus> Then do
+<Bagder>        dwihno: you should join up on the mailing list
+<Zagor> dwihno: oh yes, plenty...
+<Linus> Define "good"
+<Linus> gotta go now. CU guys!
+<dwihno>        zya
+<dwihno>        Good ... hmm...
+<Zagor> bye
+<dwihno>        Loud enough to hear at a comfortable party level when you wanna party! :D
+<Linus> doesn't that kind of depend on the amplifier?
+<dwihno>        dunno, I'm no hardware guru
+<Linus> say "headphones"
+<dwihno>        hehe
+<dwihno>        Since when are headphones amplifier
+<dwihno>        s?
+<dwihno>        or maybe they are
+<Linus> you connect the headphone output to your amplifier
+<Linus> turn up the volume and party!
+<dwihno>        ah, okay :)
+-->     elinenbe (~chatzilla@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> oh no. elinenbe is here. I must go!
+<Linus> :-)
+<elinenbe>      That's cool.
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<dwihno>        fa la la
+<dwihno>        Hm
+<elinenbe>      Anyone want to do some Pro*C programming?
+<dwihno>        *tries to figure out more questions*
+<dwihno>        How about track switching time? :)
+<Zagor> dwihno: how do you mean?
+<elinenbe>      how is the progress?
+<dwihno>        Zagor: When song #1 ends, how many seconds do I have to wait for song #2 to start?
+<Zagor> about 0.01 :)
+<Zagor> any gap is considered a bug
+<elinenbe>      I agree with that...
+<elinenbe>      are you guys planning on pre-buffering the next song?
+<Zagor> yes
+<Zagor> the next several, if they are short
+<elinenbe>      nice...
+<elinenbe>      lets say you are listening in shuffle mode, and then you want to listen in normal mode, then you will have to buffer again.
+<Zagor> yes
+<elinenbe>      what will this do to the battery life?
+<Zagor> well the more you access the disk the more power you draw
+<elinenbe>      I think there should be an option to choose an agressive battery mode, and a very conservative battery mode --> agressive for exercise, or when the device is plugged in, and a conservative for when on the plane
+<dwihno>        Hm
+<Zagor> what should the difference be?
+<Zagor> we plan to always be conservative
+<dwihno>        Zagor: You don't have the manual for the Archos in a handy format? I'd like to see how to operate it and limitations
+<Bagder>        dwihno: let's put it this way: there is none
+<dwihno>        Bagder: Erhm, you are kidding?
+<Bagder>        or at least, the one I got is worse than crap
+<dwihno>        ah, okay
+<dwihno>        I was wondering about how the playlist is like on the recorder
+<elinenbe>      well, it may spin up to buffer every 15 seconds in agressive, that way if you are running, and it is unable to buffer due to shock, then it will try again very soon.  Currently if you are running and it tries to buffer, and it can't then it stops, and most likely you have to restart the machine
+<dwihno>        elinenbe: Maybe you can tell me... ?
+<elinenbe>      what would you like to know>
+<dwihno>        hm
+<dwihno>        How do you navigate?
+<dwihno>        How does shuffle work?
+<--     calpefrosch|work has quit ("bin bals zurück")
+<elinenbe>      there is a quick user guide (that is very accurate and descriptive at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/archosjukebox6000/files/AJB6000%20Quick%20Reference%20Guide
+<dwihno>        Does it play every directory consistently?
+<dwihno>        Even on the recorder model?
+<elinenbe>      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/archosjukebox6000/files/AJBR%20Quick%20Reference%20Guide
+<--     elinenbe has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.6 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0+/20020513]")
+-->     elinenbe (~chatzilla@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     elinenbe has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<dwihno>        Rockbox - Because vanilla is not liquorice
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<dwihno>        What do you think about that for a slogan?
+<Zagor> haha
+<dwihno>        Damn, I want myself a recorder-20! :)~~
+<Bagder>        it rocks... boxes ;-)
+*       Bagder curses his bmp.c
+<dwihno>        What's wrong?
+<Bagder>        I can't seem to get the proper pixels
+<dwihno>        Is the header parsed correctly?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        but not the image itself
+<dwihno>        strange
+<dwihno>        did you test the code on wintendo?
+<Bagder>        heck no
+<Bagder>        ;-)
+<dwihno>        hehe...
+<Bagder>        I don't have a win compiler and I don't want any
+<dwihno>        MY libbmp.c works ;D
+<dwihno>        although it still depends on win32 headers
+<dwihno>        which is really really really gay
+<Bagder>        well, ok, I'll commit my code and you can all see and laugh at me
+<dwihno>        Committing buggy code?! That's breaking the prime directive! :)
+<Bagder>        it isn't being used so it doesn't matter
+<dwihno>        ah, okay
+<dwihno>        what are you going to use it for?
+<Bagder>        I wanna be able to load a logo from disk
+<dwihno>        for what?
+<dwihno>        the test environment, the archos hardware?
+<Bagder>        both
+<dwihno>        okay
+<Bagder>        http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/rockbox/uisimulator/bmp.c?rev=1.1&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup
+<dwihno>        * $Id$
+<dwihno>        What's that line?
+<dwihno>        I never understood those
+<Bagder>        a comment ;-)
+<Bagder>        generated by CVS
+<Bagder>        file, file version, date, committed, state
+<Bagder>        comitter
+<dwihno>        ah, okay
+<dwihno>        cute :)
+<Bagder>        its convenient
+<dwihno>        I can try to make my libbmp do the same thing on windows
+<dwihno>        What about the output format?
+<Bagder>        hm
+<Bagder>        I could mail you the code I use to call that and output the logo on screen
+<dwihno>        sure
+<Bagder>        using printf() a lot of"*"
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<Bagder>        address?
+<dwihno>        dwihno@hotmail.com
+<Bagder>        I sent you my whole function, just remove the lcd-functions
+<dwihno>        mkay
+<dwihno>        Hmm, I guess you aren't the one who sent the "eliminate cellulites" e-mail ;)
+<Bagder>        haha
+<dwihno>        I should fix my loader so it doesn't use windows headers too
+<Bagder>        I think this is easier to debug if I create a smaller and simpler bmp to play with
+<Bagder>        let me know if you find anything, I won't be able to do anything more today
+<dwihno>        sure
+<dwihno>        I'm soon off to get home, so I can get some fun stuff done ;)
+<Bagder>        see ya
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<dwihno>        I'm soon off to get home, so I can get some fun stuff done ;)
+<dwihno>        oops
+<dwihno>        soryr ;)
+---     dwihno is now known as dw|gone
+<Zagor> gotta go. bye!
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     elinenbe (~chatzilla@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     elinenbe has quit (Client Quit)
+<--     wavey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+-->     edx (edx@pD9EA9FF8.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<edx>   hi
+-->     calpefr|ipaq (~calpefr|i@f-226-96.frankfurt.ipgprs.viaginterkom.de) has joined #rockbox
+-->     wavey (~wavey@host-54.valtech.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<edx>   night.
+<--     edx has quit ("good night quys")
+<--     calpefr|ipaq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<--     wavey has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<--     Tumm has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+-->     Tumm (coyote@dreamhosted.borlange.se) has joined #rockbox
+<--     PsycoXul has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     PsycoXul (psyco@adsl-63-205-42-77.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     PsycoXul has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     PsycoXul (psyco@adsl-63-205-43-243.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     Tumm has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<--     dw|gone has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<--     PsycoXul has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<--     adi|work has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+-->     PsycoXul (psyco@adsl-63-205-43-243.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     adi|work (~adiamas@pool-151-204-140-140.ny325.east.verizon.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     dw|gone (dwihno@Bald067.Baldakinen.Umea.SE) has joined #rockbox
+---     dw|gone is now known as dwihno
+-->     Tumm (coyote@dreamhosted.borlange.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<dwihno>        BAGDER! :D
+<Bagder>        morning
+*       dwihno vinks
+<dwihno>        Did you solve the bitmap loader problem yesterday?
+<Bagder>        no
+<Bagder>        didn't do anything more
+<Bagder>        you?
+<dwihno>        I got it working
+<dwihno>        I got to write some extra stuff to flip the bitmap vertically and remove all windows stuff
+<dwihno>        HPALETTE's and stuff = typical nono
+<Bagder>        so, did you add it to the simulator too? ;-)
+<dwihno>        erhm
+<dwihno>        nope :)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<dwihno>        I have a life(tm) too ;)
+<Bagder>        aaaaah
+<Bagder>        that life thing they talk about ;-)
+<dwihno>        yeah, once you had it, you're hooked!
+<dwihno>        First fix is always free
+<Bagder>        so, do you wanna add it to the simulator or can you mail me your working version?
+<dwihno>        I want to fix it first
+<Bagder>        fair enough 
+<dwihno>        What model did you have?
+<Bagder>        you mean which picture?
+<dwihno>        not really :) what archos model :)
+<Bagder>        ah, a recorder
+<Bagder>        the only sane choice imho
+<dwihno>        6, 10 or 20?
+<Bagder>        do they really exist less than 20?
+<dwihno>        I know there is a 10 gig model
+<dwihno>        But you're making me uncertain :)
+<Bagder>        it doesn't really matter... I have 20 fine GB ;-)
+<dwihno>        there is a 10 gig model
+<dwihno>        When activating the device, how many seconds does it take before it starts?
+<Bagder>        hm, dunno, maybe 4 seconds
+<Bagder>        maybe a little more
+<dwihno>        That fast?
+<dwihno>        Starts playing, that is...
+<Bagder>        uh, that fast to start up and offer me the interface
+<Bagder>        then I need to pick an action
+<Bagder>        if I wanna read a playlist, it'll take longe since that is pretty slow
+<Bagder>        longer
+<dwihno>        ah, okay
+<dwihno>        Which are the alternatives? Playlist, configuration, ... ?
+<Bagder>        I'm not a very frequent Archos user, so I'm not the one to tell you about all the magic stuff
+<Bagder>        I only got my unit for like two months ago
+<Bagder>        and I intend to run our software, not getting used to the built-in ;-)
+<dwihno>        ah, okay :)
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<dwihno>        Do you use the rockbox software right now?
+<Bagder>        no, there's no available target version yet
+<Bagder>        I only run it using the simulator
+<dwihno>        The magic of writing software :)
+<dwihno>        Are playlists required in order to use the player, or can you play a directory at a time?
+<Bagder>        you can play a directory at a time, yes
+<Bagder>        without a playlist
+<dwihno>        but it can't auto-switch directory when the 'current' directory is finished?
+<Bagder>        I don't think so
+<Bagder>        or rather, I don't know
+<--     Tumm has quit (No route to host)
+<dwihno>        as long as it works ;)
+<dwihno>        Although I'll probably upgrade to rockbox once it has reached a production state
+<dwihno>        okay, now I got the structs all working
+<dwihno>        Time to remove windoze code
+<dwihno>        C:\wip\.src\archos>make
+<dwihno>        gcc -O2 -c test.c
+<dwihno>        gcc -o bmp.exe test.o ../bmp/libbmp.o
+<dwihno>        C:\wip\.src\archos>bmp
+<dwihno>        *                                      *
+<dwihno>          *  * **** **** *  * **** **** *   *
+<dwihno>          *  * *  * *    *  * *  * *  * *   *
+<dwihno>          ***  *  * *    * *  *  * *  *  * *
+<dwihno>          *  * *  * *    **   **** *  *   *
+<dwihno>          *  * *  * *    * *  *  * *  *  * *
+<dwihno>          **** **** **** *  * **** **** *   *
+<dwihno>        *                                      *
+<dwihno>        yay
+<dwihno>        :)
+<dwihno>        the power of upside-down bitmaps
+<dwihno>        gotta fix that.
+<Bagder>        nicers
+<dwihno>        libbmp.h:26: warning: malformed `#pragma pack'
+<dwihno>        Hmm
+*       dwihno turns into a question mark
+-->     Tumm (coyote@dreamhosted.borlange.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        morning Tumm
+<dwihno>        Damn computer!
+<dwihno>        I hate when this happens!
+<dwihno>        I got problems with byte alignment :/
+<Bagder>        all of a sudden?
+<dwihno>        nah
+<dwihno>        when testing the code on an intel linux box
+<Bagder>        aha
+<Bagder>        gcc?
+<dwihno>        It nags about my #pragma pack, which works perfectly on wintendo
+<dwihno>        yup
+<Bagder>        wait
+<dwihno>        2.92.3-6 for Wintendo, and 2.92.2 on the linux-box
+<Bagder>        #ifdef __GNUC__
+<Bagder>        #define STRUCT_PACKED __attribute__((packed))
+<Bagder>        #endif
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        you need to put that on the declaration of the struct
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Bagder>        hey bro
+<Zagor> hi
+<dwihno>        Hello Dr. Zagor
+<Zagor> yay, another virus on the list
+<Zagor> gotta love windows
+<Bagder>        yeah
+<Bagder>        grrrreat
+<Bagder>        then again, you should be glad you're not on the wget list 
+<Zagor> i am :)
+<Zagor> glad, that is
+<Bagder>        2-3 viruses PER DAY
+<Bagder>        and then the darned virus-reports coming in right afterwards
+<dwihno>        [~/wip/src/archos] ./bmp
+<dwihno>        *                                      *
+<dwihno>          *  * **** **** *  * **** **** *   *
+<dwihno>          *  * *  * *    *  * *  * *  * *   *
+<dwihno>          ***  *  * *    * *  *  * *  *  * *
+<dwihno>          *  * *  * *    **   **** *  *   *
+<dwihno>          *  * *  * *    * *  *  * *  *  * *
+<dwihno>          **** **** **** *  * **** **** *   *
+<dwihno>        *                                      *
+<dwihno>        YAY! :D
+<dwihno>        Thanks Bagder! You ownz
+<Bagder>        heh, np
+<dwihno>        I want to order an archos now!
+<Bagder>        go go go ;-)
+<dwihno>        :D
+<dwihno>        I'm awaiting pricing information
+<dwihno>        And cash
+<dwihno>        I'm gonna sell one of my computers this weekend
+<Bagder>        btw, you working or are you a student?
+<dwihno>        Hmm, I'm not a student (yet)
+<dwihno>        And I'm not really working either
+<dwihno>        "UNGDOMSPRAKTIK!" :D
+<dwihno>        I guess it's equivalent to working... :)
+<Bagder>        ah, youngster eh? ;-)
+<dwihno>        Not really
+<dwihno>        22 :)
+<dwihno>        Old man
+<Bagder>        heh, kiddo ;*)
+<dwihno>        Lost my job, didn't get a new, and the ungdomsgaranti kicked in
+<dwihno>        Just because you're all old hags ;)
+<dwihno>        nah, j/k
+*       Bagder leans over his cane and goes for more coffee
+-->     wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<dwihno>        #### #  #  ### #          ### #  #  ### #### #  #  ##  #####
+<dwihno>        #    #  #   #  #         #    #  #   #     # ## # #  #   #
+<dwihno>        #    #  #   #  #         #    #  #   #    #  ## # #  #   #
+<dwihno>        ###  #  #   #  #          #   ####   #    #  # ## ####   #
+<dwihno>        #    #  #   #  #           #  #  #   #   #   # ## #  #   #
+<dwihno>        #    # #    #  #            # #  #   #   #   #  # #  #   #
+<dwihno>        #    ##     #  #            # #  #   #  #    #  # #  #   #
+<dwihno>        #### #     ### ####      ###  #  #  ### #### #  # #  #   #
+<dwihno>        :-D
+<dwihno>        Beware of evil bitmap lööödär
+<PsycoXul>      so what is it that drains the batteries while the units turned off
+<Bagder>        dwihno: wooo ;-)
+<Linus> PsycoXul: Player or recorder?
+<PsycoXul>      player
+<dwihno>        Bagder: Who needs figlet when you have bitmap loader ;D
+<Linus> The recorder doesn't really turn off, AFAIK, but I don't know that the Player drained the batteries.
+<Bagder>        hey, never underestimate figlet!
+<dwihno>        can figlet produce ascii boobs from pr0n images? I don't think so! :D
+<PsycoXul>                         _            
+<PsycoXul>       ___ _  _ ___   __| |_____ __ __
+<PsycoXul>      / -_) || / -_) / _` / -_) V  V /
+<PsycoXul>      \___|\_, \___| \__,_\___|\_/\_/ 
+<PsycoXul>           |__/                       
+<PsycoXul>      dwihno: thats what aalib's for
+<dwihno>        :-)
+-->     calpefrosch|work (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has joined #rockbox
+<calpefrosch|work>      morning
+<Bagder>        morning 
+<Linus> morning, Froggy!
+<Bagder>        frogger
+<Bagder>        we should have a frogger!
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<Linus> Lode Runner
+<calpefrosch|work>      haha
+<Bagder>        pac man
+*       calpefrosch|work thinks about to change the nick
+---     calpefrosch|work is now known as pacman
+---     pacman is now known as calpefrosch
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor_>        oops :)
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<dwihno>        Hurra! Nu funkar det
+<dwihno>        Hoorrräjj, it's wöörking
+<dwihno>        Zagor: order me an Archos through your company, mkay? :)
+<Zagor> hehe. sure. one cardboard box coming up. blue marker: "Archos Juckbox"
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<dwihno>        Could you do that, s'il vous plait? :)
+<Linus> Björn har ingen attesträtt
+<Linus> haha
+<dwihno>        Linus: har du det?
+*       Linus hides
+<dwihno>        HAHAHA!
+<dwihno>        :D
+<Linus> dwihno: what is working?
+<dwihno>        Linus: bitmäp låjder, with support for vertical flip ;D
+<Linus> Woo. Flipping! C00l!
+<dwihno>        Hehe
+<dwihno>        You bet! :D
+<dwihno>        How hard is it to replace the batteries btw?
+<Bagder>        Isn't there any pics of that somewhere among yours, Zagor?
+<dwihno>         ##  ###    ## #  #  ##   ###      ###   ##  #  #  ##  #  #   #
+<dwihno>        #  # #  #  #   #  # #  # #         #  # #  # #  # #  # #  #   #
+<dwihno>        #  # #  # #    #  # #  # #         #  # #  # #  # #  # #  #   #
+<dwihno>        #### ###  #    #### #  #  #        ###  #  # #  # #### ####   #
+<dwihno>        #  # # #  #    #  # #  #   #       #    #  # ## # #  # #  #   #
+<dwihno>        #  # #  # #    #  # #  #    #      #    #  # #### #  # #  #
+<dwihno>        #  # #  # #    #  # #  #    #      #    #  # #### #  # #  #   #
+<dwihno>        #  # #  #  ### #  #  ##  ###       #     ##  #  # #  # #  #   #
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<Bagder>        uh
+<dwihno>        <-- is a bit insane today, sorry ;)
+<Zagor> Bagder: no, it's much too simple to have instructions :)
+<Zagor> dwihno: look at any photo
+<Zagor> the two silver cylinders on each side are plastic battery covers. just lift them and take out the batteries.
+<Linus> Easy as pie
+<Zagor> http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/mods/disassemble.html <--- first picture shows archos without battery covers
+<dwihno>        Linus: People say they are scared to destroy some weak plastic details
+<Zagor> then don't destroy them :)
+<dwihno>        Hehe
+<dwihno>        I guess I will be careful the day it's time to switch batteries
+<Zagor> i have never heard of anyone breaking the battery covers
+<Linus> I wonder if anyone has managed to destroy it. You need strong and clumsy hands to do that.
+<dwihno>        Is it possible to replace the batteries without removing the cover?
+<Zagor> of course not, then they would fall out!
+<Linus> Maybe some sort of teleportation. :-)
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<Linus> Almost every electronic device in this world has a cover over the batteries.
+<dwihno>        :)
+<Zagor> dwihno: can you change your walkman batteries with removing the cover?
+<Linus> without
+<dwihno>        Men apor på er alltså
+<dwihno>        Utan att skruva loss lockhelvetet då! :)
+<Zagor> there are no screws
+<Linus> No screws
+<dwihno>        Ah, I was thinking if I had to buy torx-screwdrivers and stuff to replace the batteries...
+<Linus> Those pictures described how to take the archos apart, not how to replace the batteries
+<dwihno>        I will upgrade my Archos with an 8 meg memory module ;D
+<dwihno>        Should be possible.
+<Zagor> it *is* possible
+<Zagor> in theory :)
+<Bagder>        without touching any screws? B-]
+<dwihno>        Bagder: I left the battery subject already ;)
+<dwihno>        Zagor: yeah, replacing the current memory circuit with a new, and modifying the firmwarez
+<Zagor> dwihno: but you need serious electronics skills
+*       Bagder ignores dwihno's comment and spins his chair
+<dwihno>        Zagor: I did lego when I was a kid, is that sufficient? ;)
+<dwihno>        Just kidding
+<dwihno>        Just playing around with the idea
+<Linus> The problem is that the DRAM controller might have to be programmed differently
+<Linus> and that is done by the firmware in ROM
+<Linus> so when our firmware is loaded, it is already too late
+<Linus> because the firmware is loaded in DRAM
+<Linus> tricky stuff
+<dwihno>        ah
+<dwihno>        okat
+<dwihno>        okay
+<dwihno>        Well, 2 mb buffer sounds much enough :)
+<dwihno>        2 megs = 2 minutes of shock proofing?
+<Bagder>        we will need *some* ram for the software too
+<Linus> dwihno: it's not really for shock proofing. It is for battery conservation.
+<Linus> A hard drive can't stand much of a shock anyway.
+<dwihno>        Linus: Yeah, I guess HD access eats baguett... erhm... batteries like a crazy frenchman on a saucisson ;)
+<Linus> That's a way to put it. And the Archos is a french product. :-)
+<dwihno>        IT IS?! :D
+<Bagder>        I feed my Archos with baguettes ;-)
+<Linus> Yup.
+<dwihno>        Cool
+<dwihno>        I thought it was designed by some crappy hong-kong company
+<dwihno>        Like A-MAX (they did the NAPA players)
+<Linus> No. A crappy french company.
+<Linus> :)
+<dwihno>        Does the Archos feel like "beta" hardware?
+<Zagor> no, i don't think so
+*       Bagder doesn't think so either
+<dwihno>        Right now, I have a Philips expanium (EXP 100 model) ... It's quite nice
+<dwihno>        But toasting discs is quite bothersome
+<Linus> A few slight HW modifications would have made the life much easier for the software.
+<dwihno>        and the archos could be used for my project stuff
+<dwihno>        Linus: for instance... ?
+<Bagder>        COOOFFFFEEEEE
+<dwihno>        <-- is making a copy of the archos using evil paper
+<Linus> The Frame Sync and Demand outputs from the MAS should be inverted and routed to different IRQ pins
+<dwihno>        How can you know this much about the hardware?
+<Linus> so that you can have IRQ's on both edges
+<dwihno>        Did you get some development docs or are you just hardware gurus?
+<Zagor> magic :)
+<Linus> ...and a multimeter
+<dwihno>        And a hammer! :D
+<Zagor> no docs. pure reverse engineering from start to finish.
+<dwihno>        You can't ponder around with hardware unless you have a hammer
+<dwihno>        I'm impressed by the progress :)
+<Linus> Our dilemma in that case is that we have a need to assemble it again. :-)
+<dwihno>        hehe
+<dwihno>        tip: karlssons klister!
+<Linus> We have quite a bunch of talented people working in the project
+<dwihno>        <-- is impressed. Much like Mike Levy
+<Linus> who is mike levy?
+<dwihno>        He did commercial in the 90's
+<dwihno>        for "amazing discoveries"
+<Linus> ah
+<dwihno>        He also got his own show, called "Ask Mike" :)
+<dwihno>        All the old ladies adored him
+<dwihno>        my 1:1 model of the archos is now done!
+<dwihno>        Yay
+<dwihno>        it feels a bit thick
+<Bagder>        compare it with the competitors
+<Bagder>        like the nomad
+<Bagder>        and it'll feel thin ;-)
+<dwihno>        Never seen those
+<dwihno>        Does it feel solid?
+<Zagor> yes
+<dwihno>        My paper model is lightweight :D
+<Bagder>        add 270grams or whatever it is
+<dwihno>        I should mail my model to the guys at Archos and tell them to use my design ;D
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|lunch
+---     Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
+<dwihno>        Oj
+<dwihno>        Anar jag en lunchdate?! :D
+<Bagder>        that might have to do with those two guys sitting at the same place all days... :-)
+<dwihno>        That sounds a bit kinky ;)
+<Bagder>        that's up to you ;-)
+<dwihno>        loadBMP("test.bmp", &mythingie);
+<Bagder>        and mythingie is a struct of some kind?
+<dwihno>        yup
+<dwihno>        with a bitmap, resolution and some windows gayness
+---     Linus|lunch is now known as Linus
+---     Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor
+<dwihno>        Did you enjoy your lunch? :)
+<Linus> Sallad
+<Zagor> chicken salad. mmmm...
+<dwihno>        Where did you eat?
+<Linus> Yellow Corner in Lilla Alby
+*       Zagor surfed in on sourcefourge.net as got a surprise
+<dwihno>        ALBY?!
+<dwihno>        :D
+<Zagor> s/as/and/
+<dwihno>        You work there?!
+<Bagder>        lilla alby
+<Linus> near Sundbyberg
+<dwihno>        What do you guys do for a living?
+<Bagder>        guess!
+<Linus> Computer consultant, embedded programming
+<dwihno>        Monkey-spankers :)
+<Linus> eeh?
+<dwihno>        just kidding
+<dwihno>        I envy you
+<dwihno>        Hire me
+<dwihno>        Okay?
+<Linus> :-)
+<dwihno>        I can work for a low salary :)
+<dwihno>        And sing songs every day to keep up the work spirit
+<dwihno>        Just hire me.
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<dwihno>        Seriousley, where do I send my application and CV? :)
+<Bagder>        www.contactor.se
+<Bagder>        but the hiring is kind of idling atm
+*       Bagder runs for lunch
+<dwihno>        17.00 börjar kontorsmötet. Jag hinner precis stoppa i mig en baguette med räkröra innan Lasse, vår VD, berättar om status på olika uppdrag, ekonomin, planerade konferenser och om nyanställda.
+<dwihno>        Mmm... Baguette
+<dwihno>        Idag är vi 64 konsulter med en genomsnittlig branscherfarenhet av mer än 12 år
+<dwihno>        IIIIH!
+<dwihno>        I've been working for 1.5 year :(
+<dwihno>        http://www.contactor.se/pics/bjorn.jpg
+<dwihno>        YAY :D
+<Zagor> :)
+<dwihno>        Do you have any use for a newbie like me? :)
+<Zagor> not currently
+<dwihno>        10: print "hellö"
+<dwihno>        20: goto 10
+-->     jb1081 (~jb@aboukir-101-1-14-jb1081.adsl.nerim.net) has joined #rockbox
+<dwihno>        Ingen som har en domän där jag kan få lägga in en host? :/
+<Zagor> english, dwihno
+<Zagor> and rockbox related, please :)
+<dwihno>        :-/
+---     dwihno is now known as dw|bbl
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+-->     chris1 (~flanz@62.132.155.14) has joined #rockbox
+<chris1>        hi
+<Bagder>        hey chris1
+<Linus> yo
+<dw|bbl>        yo
+---     dw|bbl is now known as dwihn0r
+<chris1>        last night I have some trouble to rune the SSH2 stuff on W32 XP. Now I can update the cvs
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        wooo, getting crowded ;-)
+<Linus> A largs, silent crowd
+<calpefrosch>   yeah, many people are unsatisfied with the orig firmware
+<PsycoXul>      according to the player LCD's pdf its chars are 5x8 ... they look 5x7 but it would explain why i got garbage in the double-height with my 5x7 chars
+<PsycoXul>      the player's firmware seems to me like it was a hacked together peice of code with minimal acceptable functionality
+<PsycoXul>      i can't say anything for the recorders
+<Linus> the recorder is quite nice. IMHO
+<PsycoXul>      but personally i see many indications in the player's default firmware's interface and other things that it wasn't taken seriously
+<dwihn0r>       Linus: Zagor mentioned something about a buzz with the recorder model... Do you know what he means?
+<dwihn0r>       Or maybe I should ask him directly :)
+<Linus> Yes I know.
+<dwihn0r>       What was the fuzz about the buzz? :D
+<PsycoXul>      i do get the feeling that the recorder's firmware was taken more seriously though, for obvious reasons related to the hardware, and started from a cleaner point... but as i don't have experience with the recorder's, that just a hunch heh
+<dwihn0r>       What kind of buzz?
+<Linus> It's a small buzz, that is audible in silent parts of the music
+<dwihn0r>       :(
+<dwihn0r>       Can you live with it?
+<Linus> it seems that it comes when the firmware is updating the LCD
+<Linus> Yes you can live with it.
+<dwihn0r>       I mean, some players have a rather loud hiss noise
+<dwihn0r>       which drives you crazy and wack!
+<Linus> We are talking about having an LCD OFF feature in the Rockbox that doesn't talk to the LCD at all
+<Linus> when you are listening to music
+<chris1>        an the recoder firmeware 24a , the lcd have some time as split screen effect.This the point where the Recorder need a reset. The FAT driver has hangs in the orginal Factory disk format. Current I can not record . The 25b Firmeware say no disk space. i have 10 G off free discspace. 
+<calpefrosch>   I have a recorder, and I wanted to listen to "Lords of Rings" as spoken text. The buzzing drives me crazy...
+<PsycoXul>      what bitrate is it
+<chris1>        any
+<Linus> Some people have analyzed the hardware, and they think it can be filtered with a small H/W patch
+<Linus> maybe only some better grounding
+<dwihn0r>       How loud is the buzz noise?
+<calpefrosch>   not so loud, but you can hear it.
+<Linus> I can't say. I'm not disturbed by it. I guess I'm too old. :-)
+<dwihn0r>       Can you compare it to some real life sound? :)
+<Zagor> dwihn0r: it depends a lot on your headphones, too. some people don't get it at all
+<calpefrosch>   like a dropping in the night. Not loud, but it drives you crazy after a time
+<Zagor> dwihn0r: it's like a fly against the window in a normal room. completely unhearable over a normal conversation, but you pick it up when the room is quiet
+<dwihn0r>       I'm just a bit worried I will feel I threw the money in the trashcan :/
+<Zagor> where do you plan to buy it?
+<dwihn0r>       Dustin
+<Linus> dwihn0r: who would buy an MP3 player just to hear some good silence? :-)
+<Zagor> I have the recorder, with buzz, and the player without buzz. I still prefer to use the Recorder
+<chris1>        what is buzz ?
+<dwihn0r>       Linus: True, but in silent parts, I want to hear silence and no buzz! :)
+<Linus> I know, just teasing
+<calpefrosch>   chris1: it's a sizzling noise
+<Bagder>        buzz: "   1.  To make a low droning or vibrating sound like that of a bee."
+<Bagder>        I've never even heard the buzz in fact ;-)
+<chris1>        buzz like the 60 Hz power volatage sound
+<chris1>        have have buy new earphones , so I have not to turne on to 100% the vol. And the buzz sound is fly away. :)
+<chris1>        how is the name of the USB2IDE Chip convert. On the webpage I can not found this info.
+<chris1>        max XXX ?
+<chris1>        isd 200 ?
+<Zagor> isd200
+<Zagor> and isd300 for the recorder20
+<chris1>        where your get the info for the register ? PDFs?
+<Zagor> which register?
+<--     elinenbe has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<chris1>        some tech notes abort the isd200 interface 
+<Zagor> http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/docs/ISD200_data_sheet20.pdf
+<Zagor> but don't spread it, they've asked me to keep it internal
+<chris1>        ok. thanks
+---     dwihn0r is now known as dw|gone
+<--     calpefrosch (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has left #rockbox
+<chris1>        ohh. look like the firmeware will check any second if the isd200 has a usb connect flag set. If so the firemware will setup the bus and go halt. In the same secound will the isd200 function full enable. No way the use to USB for data send and write to memory.For a RockBox <-> Usb Pc  connect.
+<Zagor> yes, something like that
+<chris1>        <dream> use ham packet radio technics for debuging on the recorder </dream>
+<Zagor> haha
+<Zagor> gotta go. bye!
+<Bagder>        bye Zagor
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     linuxstb (dave@dsl-212-23-31-215.zen.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+-->     edx (edx@pD9EA9D40.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     edx is now known as edx|homework
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+<--     elinenbe has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.6 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0+/20020513]")
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+<--     edx|away has quit ("good night")
+-->     [TDM]Mr_B|away (~nx_2000@ip68-0-62-70.no.no.cox.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     [TDM]Mr_B|away is now known as [TDM]Mr_B
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     anyone here/
+<--     [TDM]Mr_B has quit ()
+-->     [TDM]Mr_B (~nx_2000@ip68-0-62-70.no.no.cox.net) has joined #rockbox
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     hello?
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     anybody?
+<PsycoXul>      usualy not this time of day
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     I have a question about my new JBR 20
+<PsycoXul>      there's some good forums on funmp3players.com and a mailing list on yahoo, specific to archos jukebox recorders and players in general
+<PsycoXul>      this channels more geared towards the opensource software development for them, but of course there's technically-minded people familiar with the devices here so
+<PsycoXul>      whats your question?
+<PsycoXul>      the main rockbox developers aren't even here right now heh
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     well, I just got it and installed 1.26 firmware I d/led a while ago.  i then saw 1.27c and installed it but when I boot up it shows 1.26 and then 1.27c...slowing boot time
+-->     gizz (~root@lyon-4-a7-62-147-48-217.dial.proxad.net) has joined #rockbox
+<gizz>  hi all
+<gizz>  cool..
+<--     gizz has quit (Client Quit)
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     ...
+<PsycoXul>      the original firmware is permanently in a ROM chip in the device
+<PsycoXul>      new firmware gets loaded by it from the harddrive
+<PsycoXul>      thats exactly the expected behaviour
+<PsycoXul>      it shouldn't slow the boot time by any significant amount
+<[TDM]Mr_B>     ok, thanks...I just thought 1.16 was in ROM
+<--     [TDM]Mr_B has quit ()
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<PsycoXul>      weird
+<PsycoXul>      i thought he meant 1.26 was in rom didn't see that he installed that himself... eh hmmm
+---     dw|gone is now known as dwihno
+<dwihno>        Good morning everyone! God morgon allihopa! Bienvenue! Guten morgen!
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<dwihno>        BAGDIE! :D
+<dwihno>        *vinka*
+<Bagder>        hey ho
+<dwihno>        I'm no ho'! :D
+<Bagder>        sorry, hey hno ;-)
+<Bagder>        gcc 3.1 is out...
+<dwihno>        It is? :)
+<dwihno>        Cool
+<Bagder>        ~26 MB tarball 
+-->     calpefrosch|work (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        morning calpefrosch
+<dwihno>        I'll wait for binary packages for mingw32
+<calpefrosch|work>      morning all
+<Bagder>        I compile it right now, it'll take ages to complete ;-)
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<dwihno>        Well, you're still young ;)
+<adiamas>       hye all...
+<adiamas>       ive been away a bit.. i miss anything major?
+<Bagder>        no
+<Bagder>        just talking about gcc 3.1
+<adiamas>       ahhh
+<adiamas>       ill stay with 2.95.3 till 3 has been out a little longer,
+<Bagder>        I use several ;-)
+<calpefrosch|work>      why isn't there a stdbool.h in win32 VC++ ??
+<dwihno>        2.95.3 is fine
+<Bagder>        not for weirdo c++ stuff
+<Bagder>        calpefrosch|work: because that's a C99 thing and VC++ is not C99 compliant
+<Bagder>        make your own in the win32 directory
+<calpefrosch|work>      ok, tnx
+<Bagder>        just typedef a bool, and #define true and false
+<dwihno>        Bagder: For plain C, it is usable :)
+<Bagder>        oh certainly
+<dwihno>        Although the OO approach is so much cooler
+<Bagder>        at times
+<dwihno>        For let's say, a library for loading images
+<dwihno>        BMP's, GIF's, etc
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<dwihno>        That would rock so damn much! :D
+<Bagder>        I see OO abused to very often at work, it has ruined my view of it
+<Bagder>        so very
+<dwihno>        Too bad I'm a bad C++ coder :/
+<dwihno>        Give me an example of the abusement you've seen
+<Bagder>        one of the most common is the over-objectification
+<Bagder>        grrrr
+<Bagder>        build fails...
+<Bagder>        and again
+*       Bagder curses gcc 3.1
+<dwihno>        Get some binaries :)
+<Bagder>        I'll bet that won't wotk either
+<Bagder>        my system is built by tarballs mostly
+<dwihno>        okay
+<Bagder>        no binary packages like this, they always fail on some dependencies
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        hey zick-zaggie
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Zagor> yo
+<dwihno>        TJOHO ZAGOR! :D
+<Zagor> hello there
+<dwihno>        www.klitta.nu/ume <- please give me your personal opinions
+*       Bagder crosses his fingers, the gcc build is now doing better
+<Bagder>        no
+<Bagder>        now, should I try to fix this or just wait for the next release? ;-)
+<dwihno>        or the third option: wait for binary packages ;D
+<Bagder>        no, that's not an option for me
+<dwihno>        :)
+*       Bagder goes to fill up his coffee with that black stuff
+<Bagder>        uh
+<Bagder>        gee
+*       Bagder stops trying to type and just hides
+*       Zagor doesn't want to know what black stuff Bagder takes in his coffee
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<dwihno>        <-- got coffee, and polarbröd
+<dwihno>        and three pieces of sugar
+-->     wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<--     elinenbe has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<wavey> morn ppl
+<Bagder>        morning
+*       dwihno hugs everybody. Today everything just ... rocks :)
+<wavey> glad to hear it :)
+<dwihno>        :-D
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        morning Linus
+-->     PsycoXuul (psyco@adsl-63-205-43-243.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        do I sense that Linus is unaware of all our application efforts? ;-)
+<wavey> heheh
+<--     PsycoXul has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<dwihno>        which what who where?
+---     PsycoXuul is now known as PsycoXul
+<Bagder>        dwihno: aren't you subscribed on the mailing list yey?
+<Bagder>        yet
+<dwihno>        Bagder: No, I'm too lame.
+<Linus> yes I am very unaware. :-)
+<Linus> What is this application?
+*       Bagder counts to 96 subscribers right now
+<Bagder>        Linus: the player one is Björns dir tree browser
+<Linus> ok
+<Bagder>        the recorder one is dir browser, tetris and a screen saver
+<Linus> ah
+<Bagder>        and both can show id3 tags
+<Linus> Simulator stuff, as of now
+<Linus> Nice
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        but why sim only?
+<Bagder>        they should run on targe too, right?
+<Linus> So I guess you are all waiting for my MPEG thread?
+<Bagder>        not necessarily
+<Linus> It works
+<Bagder>        the apps can run without it
+<Linus> just not perfectly
+<Linus> It isn't glitch-free between songs
+<Linus> and it can't seek()
+<Linus> yet
+<dwihno>        Does the Archos firmware allow in-track seek:ing?
+<Zagor> yes
+<dwihno>        Whoa... There's something new! :O
+<dwihno>        Simple to use even with 2 hours mp3 lengths?
+<PsycoXul>      its like cd player seeking\
+<dwihno>        okay
+<PsycoXul>      you press and hold the forward button till you get where you want to be
+<PsycoXul>      or backward or whatever
+<dwihno>        Does it take an eternity to seek to let's say 1.5 hour?
+<PsycoXul>      probably
+<Zagor> uh, yes :)
+<dwihno>        ah, mkay :)
+<dwihno>        Damn
+<dwihno>        I just rang my friend to get the root password
+<dwihno>        I woke him up, and now the password isn't correct!
+<PsycoXul>      so what about playlist code, is that part of an app yet?
+<Bagder>        not yet
+<Bagder>        we should get that part moving
+<Bagder>        dwihno: did you get anywhere further on the bmp stuff, anything to send me? ;-)
+<dwihno>        Bagder: I found out it glitches when the resolution isn't a multiple of 2
+<dwihno>        How many hours does it take to make a subdomain active?
+<Bagder>        make a domain active? in what regard?
+<dwihno>        hmm
+<dwihno>        Getting a hostname bound to a ip
+<dwihno>        dw.lahma.net -> a box
+<Bagder>        if its a new name added, it'll take effect almost immediately
+<dwihno>        damn
+<dwihno>        then it wasn't done
+<dwihno>        DAMN DAMN DAMN
+<dwihno>        :-/
+<Bagder>        gcc 3.1 probably is a boring thing anyway :-O
+<Zagor> haha
+<Zagor> no go?
+<Bagder>        no
+<dwihno>        Bagder: Never underestimate the power of binary packages :)
+<Bagder>        bugger off
+<Bagder>        binary packages are evil
+<dwihno>        Bagder: What system are you trying to compile it for?
+<Bagder>        linux i386
+<Bagder>        i686 rather
+<dwihno>        hm
+<dwihno>        then it's weird
+<dwihno>        what kind of errors do you get?
+<Linus> You didn't manage to compile gcc 3.1?
+<Bagder>        checking whether the C compiler (/home/daniel/src/gcc-3.1/gcc/xgcc -B/home/daniel/src/gcc-3.1/gcc/ -B/usr/local/gcc3/i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ -B/usr/local/gcc3/i686-pc-linux-gnu/lib/ -isystem /usr/local/gcc3/i686-pc-linux-gnu/include -g -O2 ) works... no
+<Linus> oh
+<Bagder>        this is when it switches to compile with xgcc
+<Bagder>        I'll try with another original compiler
+<Bagder>        right, that works better
+<Bagder>        3.0.3 can't build 3.1 :-/
+<Bagder>        me and my mouth
+<Bagder>        *dang*
+<Bagder>        failed
+<Linus> It looks like you are incompetent :-)
+<Bagder>        yeah
+<Bagder>        I'm a fool
+<Linus> Your brain hurts?
+<Bagder>        a lot!
+<Linus> Did you have to upgrade the binutils?
+<Bagder>        I like the patch release 3.0.4 = 3.1, 17MB!
+<Bagder>        no binutiles upgrade, no
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        your simultaneous comings and goings look very cute ;-)
+<--     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<dwihno>        :)
+-->     jb1081 (~jb1081@lime.ircam.fr) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Zagor> wacko proxy :(
+-->     chris1 (~flanz@62.132.155.14) has joined #rockbox
+<chris1>        nice mails
+<Linus> you think?
+<Linus> I am listening to music on my Rockbox as we speak.
+<Zagor> so, guys, what do we do about the apps module?
+<Zagor> smack everything in root, and add 'player' and 'recorder' dirs only for the model-specific code?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        for now
+<Bagder>        quick and easy
+<Linus> we can always change later (with the expense of losing CVS history)
+*       Zagor is fixing
+<dwihno>         ##  ###    ## #  #  ##   ###      ###   ##  #  #  ##  #  #   #
+<dwihno>        #  # #  #  #   #  # #  # #         #  # #  # #  # #  # #  #   #
+<dwihno>        #  # #  # #    #  # #  # #         #  # #  # #  # #  # #  #   #
+<dwihno>        #### ###  #    #### #  #  #        ###  #  # #  # #### ####   #
+<dwihno>        #  # # #  #    #  # #  #   #       #    #  # ## # #  # #  #   #
+<dwihno>        #  # #  # #    #  # #  #    #      #    #  # #### #  # #  #
+<dwihno>        #  # #  # #    #  # #  #    #      #    #  # #### #  # #  #   #
+<dwihno>        #  # #  #  ### #  #  ##  ###       #     ##  #  # #  # #  #   #
+<dwihno>        Sorry, I just had to express myself
+<Linus> Bagder and Zagor: do your dir browsers only show MP3 files?
+<Bagder>        no
+<Bagder>        but they assume all files are mp3 ;-)
+<dwihno>        COOL :D
+<Bagder>        I mean, they'll check id3 tags on anything
+<Linus> Oh. So we might end up playing the ARCHOS.MOD?
+<Bagder>        if you want, sure!
+<dwihno>        if (!strcasecmp(filename.ext, "mp3")) return TRUE;
+<dwihno>        there you have a function for quick detection of mp3-files ,D
+<Linus> But everybody wants a MOD player, so why not? :-)
+<Zagor> dwihno: no, that checks if the file is called "mp3", not if it ends with it :*)
+<Zagor> ah, ext. duh...
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<Linus> My test code does just that
+<chris1>        Daniel : your write  "The Archos Recorder uses a ISD300" on the PCB rec_main.pdf i see the ISD200 !?
+<Bagder>        oh
+<dwihno>        For a initial release, a simple extension check is more than sufficient :)
+<Linus> A schematic error
+<Bagder>        chris1: then there's an error there
+<Zagor> chris1: only the recorder20 uses isd300, the older models use isd200
+<Bagder>        aah
+<Linus> All recorders use ISD300, not?
+<chris1>        I thing to my topic yesterday, there is a way to read and write memory from the PC-USB-> to Archos ( I have the Rec20 )
+<Zagor> Linus: no, only the 20
+<Linus> chris1: ???
+<chris1>        The FAQ list say . "- Player control via USB"
+<Linus> shoot. tell me about the way
+<Linus> or was it a question?
+<Zagor> Linus: have you checked in all your mpeg code?
+<Linus> No. I'm working on it as we speak
+<Zagor> ok
+<chris1>        I have jet no solution in my brain, I think it is posible on the rec20
+<Linus> But it seems to play glitch-free now
+<Bagder>        woohooo
+<Linus> No volume control yet
+*       dwihno hoorays for Linus
+<Linus> And no seek
+*       Bagder kneels in front of Linus, we're not worthy...
+<Linus> No you're not
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<Linus> :-)
+<chris1>        is the button api ready, for hocking on keypress 
+<Linus> Maybe i should start working on the volume control. But that takes a hardware mod for me... :-(
+<chris1>        vol control can impl. easy.
+<Bagder>        what hw mod?
+<Linus> chris1: yes. Just write to the correct registers in the MAS with correct data.
+<chris1>        is that a task ?
+<Linus> Bagder: The serial port is connected in the earphone plug. When I connect the earphones i short-circuit the debugger cable
+<Linus> chris1: a task?
+<Bagder>        aha
+<chris1>        sould I do that.
+<Linus> No need. I'm on it.
+<Linus> But thanks
+<chris1>        ok
+<Bagder>        isn't the lack of playlist code one of the white spots right now?
+<Zagor> well playlist isn't on the roadmap for 1.0 :-)
+<Bagder>        when the mpeg thread works, we have no code that feeds songs to it
+<Zagor> right. so we can only play one song at a time
+<Bagder>        of course, that's fine enough for v1
+<Bagder>        but then...
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<chris1>        contractor.se : cs player :-)
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|lunch
+---     Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
+<dwihno>        I think both of them are only one person
+<dwihno>        Someone with a split personality ;D
+<dwihno>        With the ability to code for two
+*       Bagder smiles
+<chris1>        I think to.
+*       dwihno just sneezed the screen full of snot
+<PsycoXul>      both the decoder chip and the dac chip have some volume and sound controls
+<PsycoXul>      imo there should be interfaces to all of it that there can be
+<PsycoXul>      i think i'm going to build a tesla coil
+<PsycoXul>      along with its components and generator to power it
+<dwihno>        I am going to build a rymdraket out of navelludd
+<PsycoXul>      huh?
+<dwihno>        fluff from the navel :)
+<dwihno>        spacerocket
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      rockets are stupid
+<dwihno>        If they come with warp drive, they are cool ;D
+<PsycoXul>      what a waste of energy
+<dwihno>        We got unlimited amounts of energy!
+<PsycoXul>      well a warp drive isn't a rocket now is it
+<PsycoXul>      warp drive's kindof a silly idea though
+<dwihno>        Not really
+<--     Zagor|lunch (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Linus|lunch (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<PsycoXul>      no, it is :p
+<--     chris1 has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Zagor> fun fun fun on the autobahn
+<dwihno>        Did you enjoy lunch?
+-->     chris1 (~flanz@62.132.155.14) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> chris1: where did you see the cs info?
+<chris1>        www.contactor.se
+<Zagor> huh, we mention cstrike there?
+<dwihno>        You do nothing all day but play cs ;)
+<Zagor> right, but we shouldn't be telling people that :)
+<chris1>        < UT
+<Bagder>        Zagor: move those darned apps! ;-)
+*       Bagder considers adding a little script for making tarball releases easier
+<Zagor> I'm on it. but people keep pulling me away for other, lesser, tasks :)
+<Bagder>        scare them away!
+<Linus> you mean, like, work?
+<Zagor> no swearing, linus!
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> yo
+<Zagor> is lcd_update() for the recorder only?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<--     elinenbe has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.6 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0+/20020513]")
+*       Bagder made the bmp.c work
+<Bagder>        it looks cool to the logo on place ;-)
+<Linus> We're not worthy...
+<Linus> Captain! Volume Control is now activated!
+<Zagor> Roger that.
+<Zagor> ;)
+<Bagder>        pump it up! ;-)
+<Linus> When I set it to 0dB it screams in the earphones! I don't dare to set it to maximum (18dB)
+<Zagor> isn't that damping? so 0dB is the loudest?
+<Zagor> s/damping/attenuation/
+<Linus> No. The lowest volume is -75dB
+<Zagor> ok
+<Bagder>        any suggestion on how we do the little/big endian crap? Just hardcode them in the simulator Makefile?
+<Linus> eh?
+<Bagder>        we need to switch a lot when reading binary
+<Linus> yes
+<Bagder>        and what's the default, is the S1 big endian?
+<Linus> default is BE
+<Bagder>        ok
+<Linus> So big endian should be default in the code as well
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Linus> #ifdef LITTLE_ENDIAN
+<Linus> or something
+<Bagder>        #ifdef LITTLE_ENDIAN
+<Bagder>        #define readshort(x) x
+<Bagder>        #else
+<Bagder>        #define readshort(x) (((x&0xff00)>>8)|((x&0x00ff)<<8))
+<Bagder>        !
+<Bagder>        I could possibly removed the and
+<--     wavey has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<Zagor> what's wrong with SWAB16 ?
+<Bagder>        it's not documented in API ;-)
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Bagder>        so therefor I didn't know about it
+<Zagor> it's implemented in assembler, so you still need to define it for uisimulator
+<Bagder>        it should still be documented... :-)
+<Zagor> Bagder: why are you using float in id3.c?
+<Linus> Booooh
+<Linus> shame on you!
+<Bagder>        I don't
+<Linus> Yes you do
+<Bagder>        where?
+<Zagor> line 449: bpf *= 12000.0 * 4.0;
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Linus> lame!
+<Bagder>        will that acually use floats?
+<Bagder>        bpf is an int
+<Zagor> the calculation will be made with float and then truncated
+<Bagder>        so cut off the .0
+<Zagor> already done :)
+<Bagder>        I converted that whole thing from float to int
+<Bagder>        actually that calculation gets a bit "rough" without floats
+<Bagder>        but I guess its ok anyway
+<Bagder>        those variable bitrate files will blow it away pretty bad too
+<Linus> rough?
+<Linus> How?
+<Bagder>        it lacks accuracy
+<Bagder>        but it might not matter that much
+<Linus> how can a multiplication of a int with 48000 be better using a float?
+<Bagder>        you're not thinking clearly now ;-)
+<Bagder>        that single little snippet was a mistake
+<Linus> I never do
+<Bagder>        the whole calc used LOADS of floats originally
+<Linus> ah. OK I understand
+<chris1>        witch code is use on INTEL big or lite endian ?
+-->     Bagder2 (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<dwihno>        I'd say big
+<chris1>        http://www.byteswap.net/mikesnotes/2002/getting-started/byteorder.html >> little-endian byte order
+<Linus> Intel is little endian
+<dwihno>        it is?
+<dwihno>        ah, I got it mixed up with motorola
+<Zagor> Bagder: do we need both dmalloc and bmalloc, or should we select one of them?
+<Bagder2>       both are used
+<Bagder2>       dmalloc is the small-blocks alloc system
+<Bagder2>       it gets big blocks from the bmalloc 
+<Zagor> so which one do I call from code?
+<Bagder2>       the dmalloc ones
+<Bagder2>       I believe there are some malloc => dmalloc #defines in dmalloc.h
+<Zagor> ah, good
+<Bagder2>       if we end up doing malloc() only on big blocks, we'll skip dmalloc alltogether
+<Linus> You call malloc(9
+<Linus> not bmalloc or dmalloc
+<Bagder2>       yes, the dmalloc.h defines malloc => dmalloc
+<Linus> ah
+<Bagder2>       I prefer that way
+<Linus> It is not wise to do so. It is better to name it malloc()
+<Bagder2>       why so?
+<Linus> newlib calls malloc, for example in strdup()
+<Bagder2>       right
+<Bagder2>       so we should rename the d-versions to the standard names
+<Linus> absolutely
+<--     Bagder has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<Bagder2>       you want me to do it or do anyone of you?
+<Zagor> you do it. i've got other problems :)
+<Bagder2>       ok
+<Zagor> change dmalloc to not use sprintf() while you're at it
+<Bagder2>       for what?
+<Zagor> line 293 uses it for semaphore naming. use snprintf instead.
+<Bagder2>       we don't have semaphores 
+<Zagor> true. i don't know why it's compiled.
+<Bagder2>       renamed
+<Zagor> bmalloc.c:246 looks wrong
+<Bagder2>       yes
+<Bagder2>       I'll make the whole function dependent on DEBUG
+<Zagor> no, DEBUG is for DEBUGF, not for printf()
+<Bagder2>       hehe
+<Bagder2>       collision
+<Zagor> use DEBUG_SIM or something for printf()
+<Bagder2>       DEBUG_MALLOC possibly
+<Zagor> that's fine too
+<Bagder2>       fixed
+<Zagor> thanks
+<Bagder2>       to init the malloc system, call these two:
+<Bagder2>       dmalloc_initialize();
+<Zagor> you should probably remove the defines from dmalloc.h too :)
+<Bagder2>       bmalloc_add_pool(thisisourheap, AMOUNT_OF_MEMORY);
+<Bagder2>       I did
+<Zagor> oh
+<Zagor> ah, bad recompile
+<Zagor> bingo. apps/ builds a full archos.mod
+<Bagder2>       c00lnezz
+<Zagor> 0x39b4 bytes code
+<dwihno>        Congratulations!
+*       dwihno is not worthy
+<Zagor> ...but i doubt it works :)
+<Bagder2>       :-)
+<dwihno>        Who cares, as long as it compiles :)
+<dwihno>        (a.k.a the Microsoft development policy) ;)
+<dwihno>        Btw, what is archos.mod?
+<dwihno>        _THE_ app?
+<Bagder2>       yes
+<Bagder2>       the one we copy to the archos
+<dwihno>        OH
+*       dwihno shivers ... with anti --- cipation!
+<dwihno>        Name that movie, 500 points
+<Bagder2>       btw dwihno, you were too slow, I fixed my bmp viewer ;-)
+<dwihno>        Bagder2: Hey, I got a work(tm)
+<dwihno>        www.jupither.net/dw/
+<Bagder2>       hehe
+<Bagder2>       work? wazzat? ;-)
+<dwihno>        Check the page and tell me what you think
+<dwihno>        It's for an application I did
+<Bagder2>       javascriptmania
+<Bagder2>       well it *looks* good
+<Bagder2>       but you break about every rule I'd follow
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<dwihno>        Which are... ?
+<Zagor> did anyone ever run the simulator with HAVE_PLAYER_KEYBOARD?
+<Zagor> it doesn't compile
+<Bagder2>       javascript, use full browser, never use your own scroll, no movements
+<Zagor> *KEYPAD, even
+<Bagder2>       Zagor: no, it built with player lcd but recorder keypad
+<dwihno>        Bagder2: Yeah, I know, I agree! But this time, I had to do it this way! :)
+<Zagor> Bagder2: we need to be able to run player keypad too, to test the application
+<Bagder2>       Zagor: you're right of course
+<Bagder2>       I gotta run
+<Bagder2>       see ya
+<--     Bagder2 (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<dwihno>        what's the resolution of the recorder LCD?
+<Zagor> 112x64
+<dwihno>        okay
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<dwihno>        Me and my workmate are talking about purchasing
+<dwihno>        Chasing information, trying to press the prices etc.
+<Linus> good!
+<dwihno>        Yeah :)
+<dwihno>        And installing rockbox to enhance functionality :)
+<dwihno>        Are you writing a mp3 decoder yourself or are you utilizing the onboard-chip?
+<Zagor> the chip
+<dwihno>        ah.
+<dwihno>        I guess it takes less time.
+<Zagor> the processor isn't fast enough to handle mp3 decoding
+<dwihno>        Could guess that.
+<dwihno>        Oj. Swedish word-by-word translation ;)
+<dwihno>        How big is your firmware compared to the original?
+<Zagor> it's smaller so far
+<dwihno>        How big difference?
+<Zagor> but then we have hardly no application code yet
+<dwihno>        true, true
+<dwihno>        Okay, guess the movie, 400 points level: "In just seven days, I can make you a man!"
+<Zagor> currently the mod is 18k, while the archos mod is ~60k
+<Zagor> but we have to pad it to 50k anyway, otherwise the archos refuses to load it. so it's not much of an issue
+<dwihno>        Fishy
+<Zagor> nah, it's probably just a sanity check
+<Zagor> to avoid loading bogus archos.mod files and crashing
+<Zagor> on the other hand, there's a CRC check as well so it shouldn't be necessary... oh well 20k disk space is no problem
+<dwihno>        not really :)
+<dwihno>        How far away is the first testing of the mod?
+<Zagor> days
+<dwihno>        Exciting! :)
+<Zagor> yup :)
+<Linus> Bass and treble works now!
+<Zagor> coool!
+<dwihno>        Guess the movie, 300 points: "Oh Janet! Oh Brad! Oh Janet! Oh Brad! Err... You're not Brad! Hahaha, you wish!"
+<dwihno>        Linus: you own!
+<Linus> Single white female?
+<Linus> No
+<dwihno>        Linus: I AM NOT WORTHY!!!
+<dwihno>        Well, at least not before I got an Archos in my hand ;)
+<dwihno>        Linus: what was the issue about VBR's?
+<Zagor> i've gotta go. see you guys!
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<Linus> dwihno: what issue?
+<dwihno>        I thought you wrote something about VBR's having a fishy sound
+<Linus> Did I?
+<dwihno>        Hm
+<dwihno>        <-- might be wrong
+<Linus> That must have been someone else
+<dwihno>        might have been
+<dwihno>        I congratulate you on the work on getting the decoding to work
+<dwihno>        I congratulate all of you on this project
+<dwihno>        Something neat would be, if Archos realized your firmware will get smarter than theirs, and they paid you for the development
+<Linus> Hehe. I'm not sure I would want that
+<dwihno>        How come?
+<dwihno>        If they allowed you to keep the product GPL?
+<dwihno>        Being paid for doing fun stuff is like being paid for partying :)
+<Linus> I get paid for fun stuff almost daily
+<Linus> :-)
+<Linus> Buyt yes, if they agreed to GLP the code, why not?
+<Linus> GPL
+<dwihno>        :)
+<dwihno>        What do you do for a living?
+<dwihno>        pimping? :)
+<--     chris1 has quit ("r")
+<Linus> Hehe. Programming.
+<dwihno>        jb1081: print "LiNuS rUlEz!"
+<dwihno>        20: goto 10
+<dwihno>        ?
+<dwihno>         :)
+<dwihno>        oops
+<dwihno>        stupid nick completion
+---     dwihno is now known as dw|gone
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     trillback (~trillian@nat-198-95-226-233.netapp.com) has joined #rockbox
+<--     trillback (~trillian@nat-198-95-226-233.netapp.com) has left #rockbox
+---     Disconnected (Connection timed out).
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu May 16 14:14:19 2002
+
diff --git a/www/irc/rockbox-20020519.log b/www/irc/rockbox-20020519.log
new file mode 100644
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+++ b/www/irc/rockbox-20020519.log
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+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 16 22:16:35 2002
+
+-->     adiamas (~adiamas@as5300-9.216-194-23-128.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     Topic for #rockbox is Does your box rock? http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+---     Topic for #rockbox set by Bagder at Mon May 13 04:46:28
+---     You are now known as adi|home
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<dw|gone>       Hellö ppl!
+---     dw|gone is now known as dwihno
+<Bagder>        morning
+<dwihno>        How are you today?
+<Bagder>        pretty good
+<Bagder>        loadsa mails to deal with
+<dwihno>        "Free XXX"
+<dwihno>        "Get bigger dick with our magic pills"
+<dwihno>        "Debt consolidation"
+<Bagder>        more like "how do I make this work?" kinds
+<Bagder>        the spams are mostly filtered automaticly
+<dwihno>        You work as a consultant?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        but the mails are mostly about my spare time hacks
+<dwihno>        what kind of consultant?
+<Bagder>        embedded, network, unix
+<dwihno>        Oh
+<dwihno>        Sounds like a fun job :)
+<Bagder>        been working for Net Insight the least 2+ years
+<Bagder>        oh it _is_ a great job
+<dwihno>        I've been unemployed for almost a year :(
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        ugha
+<Linus> uuh
+<dwihno>        Good morning Linus-dude! :D
+<Bagder>        hey Linus the rocker!
+<Linus> morning d00d!
+<Bagder>        you're early
+<dwihno>        Bagder: Yeah, it sucks, but I'm not giving up - I write applications almost every day
+<Linus> Yup. Have to go early today
+<Bagder>        dwihno: that's probably the sane thing to do
+*       Linus goes for coffee
+<dwihno>        :-)
+*       dwihno .equals(sane)
+<dwihno>        *yawn*
+<dwihno>        I hate cooking lunch in the morning
+<dwihno>        <-- did some pretty nice chicken salad
+<Linus> what do you guys think we should do about the GDB enabled version of librockbox?
+<Linus> and the release version?
+<Linus> multiple targets in the makefile?
+<Linus> or multiple libraries?
+<Bagder>        good q
+<Bagder>        my opinion: multiple targets, the same library
+<Linus> OK. next q:
+<Linus> should thread.c malloc() the stack, or should we have static stacks for the threads?
+<Linus> not a big issue, really. Just thinking.
+<Bagder>        I doubt that we'll realloc() the stack so a static is slightly better
+<Linus> ok
+<Linus> we need special compiler flags for some files, like thread.o
+<Linus> how do we do that without messing with the dependencies?
+<Bagder>        that's the downside of all those wildcard things
+<dwihno>        <-- loves wildcards
+<Bagder>        the thread.o should have its own line in the makefile, with its own additional flags on the compile line
+<Linus> Bagder: indeed
+<Linus> What does Make do when thread.o has two targets?
+<Bagder>        it yells
+<Linus> gah
+<Linus> So what do we do
+<Bagder>        thread.o must be removed from the wildcard-generated list
+<dwihno>        Some shell script generating the makefile's perhaps?
+<--     Tumm has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
+<Bagder>        I bet there is some keyword that allows us to cut out a specific file from the SRC generated list
+<Linus> Bagder: Yeah. I guess we have to do that. It's a pity.
+<Bagder>        SRC = $(filter tread.c, $(SRC))
+<Bagder>        SRC = $(filter-out tread.c, $(SRC))
+<Bagder>        rather
+<Bagder>        btw
+<Bagder>        Linus: do you know why the Recorder doesn't allow music to be played while charging the batteries?
+<dwihno>        It doesn't?! :(
+<Bagder>        at least I haven't been able to make it ;-)
+<dwihno>        hm
+<dwihno>        You probably forgot connecting it to the PC ;)
+<dwihno>        Do you develop using linux or windows?
+<Bagder>        there is only one ;-)
+<Bagder>        Linux
+<Bagder>        and Solaris too actually
+<dwihno>        okay
+<dwihno>        USB on solaris?
+<dwihno>        Did you ever try a BSD variant?
+<Bagder>        I don't need usb to develop
+<Bagder>        we have simulators, remember
+<dwihno>        aaah
+<dwihno>        the Simulator(tm) :D
+<Bagder>        yes, I've tried BSD variants
+<dwihno>        so what did you think?
+<Bagder>        about what?
+<Bagder>        BSD?
+<dwihno>        yeah
+<dwihno>        and how much of a difference is there between the simulator and the real hardware?
+<Bagder>        the simulators simulate the "low-level" APIs, so we can write "apps" on them
+<Bagder>        the BSDs are generally fine, in some areas great, in some not so great
+<dwihno>        Please go on :)
+<Linus> Bagder: Zagor does it all day (listening while charging)
+<Bagder>        hm
+<Linus> I tried just now. What is your problem?
+<Linus> You have to push "on"
+<Linus> puch and hold
+<Bagder>        while charging?
+<Linus> just like when you turn it on normally
+<dwihno>        So what linux distributions are you guys using+
+<Linus> Red Hat
+<Linus> I wanted to install Debian, bit it kind of backfired on me
+<Bagder>        ah ok
+<Bagder>        I just didn't press long enough
+<dwihno>        How about you Bagder?
+<Linus> He is an old red hat
+<Bagder>        once upon the time redhat
+<dwihno>        /\
+<Bagder>        source since
+<Linus> patched as hell
+<dwihno>        /\
+<dwihno>        hm
+<dwihno>        that's my hat ;)
+<Bagder>        $ telnet localhost
+*       adi|home slaps you all with the "be quiet im tring to sleep" stick
+<Bagder>        Trying 127.0.0.1...
+<Bagder>        Connected to localhost.
+<Bagder>        Escape character is '^]'.
+<Bagder>        Storebror Linux What Hasn't Crashed Yet Soon Will
+<Bagder>        Kernel 2.4.18 on an i686
+<Bagder>        login:
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<dwihno>        Telnet rules
+<Bagder>        you tring huh? ;-)
+<adi|home>      telnet SUCKS
+<adi|home>      ssh is god
+<adi|home>      i have issues with plain text
+<Bagder>        telnet is fine on localhost ;-)
+<adi|home>      or "here, sniff my password"
+<adi|home>      bah, humbug
+<adi|home>      i wouldn't trade the ease of use of scp and ssh for anything
+<dwihno>        ssh is good
+<dwihno>        and cute
+<Linus> what do we prefer:
+<Linus> make DEBUG=1
+<Linus> or
+<Linus> make debug
+<adi|home>      make debug
+<Bagder>        the latter
+<Linus> ok
+<adi|home>      cause its like comparing to "make CLEAN=1"
+<adi|home>      :)
+<Bagder>        yeah
+<Linus> not really. clean is a target, DEBUG is more like an option
+<adi|home>      have we reached any sort of decision on how apps/ is going to be set up?
+<Linus> debug affects the compiler flags
+<adi|home>      no, id treat debug as a target too..
+<Bagder>        adi|home: hehe, not really, but I think we go for all "general" files in the root with target-specific code in subdirs, for now
+<adi|home>      doing LINUX or SOLARIS .. those id accept at =1
+<adi|home>      k
+*       adi|home needs to get back into the swing of things
+<Bagder>        but I don't know why Björn didn't move all the app code from uisimulator to apps
+<adi|home>      if you want me to just switch everything over i can.. but i don' see a need to yet really
+<Bagder>        there's no immediate need, no, I just thought it'd be cleaner
+<Bagder>        when we wanna start building target stuff using the apps
+<Linus> Bagder: how do i change CFLAGS in a target?
+<Bagder>        ehum
+<Bagder>        you don't
+<Linus> Hence my question above
+<Bagder>        well, in a sane makefile you have a differently named variable for that  then
+<Linus> and no default rules?
+<Linus> Here we go
+<Bagder>        right
+<Bagder>        or rather
+<Bagder>        you'd use different object files
+<Linus> oh no
+<Bagder>        oh yes ;-)
+<Linus> Then we are in depoendency hell
+<Bagder>        not necessarily
+<Bagder>        DBGOBJS := $(SRC:%.c=debug/%.o) crt0.o
+<Bagder>        or however you write that kind of stuff
+<Bagder>        or perhaps not
+<Bagder>        using default rules really ain't fine here
+<Linus> The seldom are
+<Bagder>        and totally unnecessary since we generate the deps anyway
+<Bagder>        we can just as well generate the action line too
+<Linus> I see the Makefile growing
+<Bagder>        sure
+<Bagder>        but it needs to do good
+<Bagder>        a small bad makefile is worse than a big good one
+*       adi|home pets the Makefile.. "good makefile.. you grow.. big.. strong makefile.. strong like bull"
+<--     calpefrosch|work has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<Bagder>        more coffee
+<Linus> I would prefer writing "make DEBUG=1" instead of having a more complex makefile/dependency generation
+<Bagder>        it'll work for now at least
+<dwihno>        make -f Makefile.debug
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<Bagder>        I received a poem by mail this morning:
+<Bagder>        fooled dad added cable
+<Bagder>        failed decode doc called aid
+<Bagder>        official bill baffled
+<Bagder>        supposed to be almost Haiku, and it is...
+<Bagder>        hexadecimal ;-)
+<dwihno>        haha
+<Bagder>        00000000 f0 01 ed da da dd ed ca b1 e0
+<Bagder>        00000013 fa 11 ed de c0 de d0 cc a1 1e da 1d
+<Bagder>        0000002b 0f f1 c1 a1 b1 11 ba ff 1e d0
+<dwihno>        Writing hexadecimal poetry goes in the top20 of the "what to do on a rainy day" list :)
+<Bagder>        indeed
+-->     calpefrosch|work (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has joined #rockbox
+<calpefrosch|work>      morning
+<Bagder>        morning calpe
+<Linus> morning Froggy
+*       calpefrosch|work quacks
+-->     StarFox (~GatesOfHe@adsl-64-175-110-181.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+*       Bagder greets StarFox welcome
+<StarFox>       hello Bagder
+*       StarFox is trying out some new themes
+<Linus> hi starfox
+<StarFox>       hello Linus
+<Bagder>        StarFox: you an Archos owner?
+<StarFox>       no
+<Linus> This is only for club members. :-)
+<Linus> haha
+<Bagder>        hey
+<Bagder>        there's no rockbox available yet anyway ;-)
+<Linus> No, but it's close now
+<dwihno>        Will the LCD-off feature be in the first releases?
+<Linus> Bagder: can you check the makefile changes for me?
+<Bagder>        the very first release is for the player
+<Linus> I haven't written a MAS driver for the Recorder yet
+<Bagder>        Linus: yes, that makefile looks fine
+<Bagder>        does it work? ;-)
+<dwihno>        Ah, okay
+<Linus> Good. Zagor will probably have some wierd comments on it :-)
+<Linus> Bagder: yes it works :-)
+<Bagder>        oh he will
+<Bagder>        Zagor the code police will strike down ;-)
+<Bagder>        we need to join the rebel forces
+*       dwihno can hear the "boot sound" in his head: "R-r-r-rockbox - Open Source kickass firmware"
+<Linus> Yeah. He's a badass moddafacka Code Cop
+*       Bagder is scared of the code police force
+<StarFox>       brb
+<--     StarFox has quit ("Will return soon")
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> oops
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        hey Zagor_
+<Zagor_>        hi
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Linus> oh no! the police! run!
+*       Bagder ducks
+<dwihno>        :D
+<dwihno>        GOOD MORNING ZAGOR! :D
+<dwihno>        Zagor: Linus has been here all day long, did you have a sovmorgon? :)
+<Zagor> yeah
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<dwihno>        Zzzagor ;)
+*       Bagder is gonna go and have some nice shots now!
+<dwihno>        Shots?
+<dwihno>        This early? :)
+<Bagder>        as in needles
+<Bagder>        vaccine
+---     Bagder is now known as Bagder|gone
+<dwihno>        Vaccine for what?
+<Bagder|gone>   I dunno ;-) I'll find out!
+<Bagder|gone>   I'm going to east africa this summer
+<dwihno>        Ah
+<dwihno>        Then I know which vaccine you are getting
+<dwihno>        Insanity neutralizer ;)
+<dwihno>        Nobody sane would ever go to africa
+<dwihno>        All sick mosquitos and rhinos and giraffs... That's scary stuff dude! :)
+<Linus> Uganda?
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|lunch
+---     Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
+-->     Tumm (coyote@dreamhosted.borlange.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor
+---     Linus|lunch is now known as Linus
+---     Bagder|gone is now known as Bagder
+<Zagor> still alive, bagder? ;)
+<dwihno>        We are alive
+<dwihno>        (Paul van Dyk)
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<Bagder>        I got away pretty good ;-)
+<Bagder>        not a single shot
+*       dwihno gives everybody some newly baked bullar
+<Bagder>        had them all already ;-)
+<Bagder>        mainly just Malaria poison needed
+*       Bagder thinks ispell-complete-word rocks hard
+*       Bagder detects trouble
+<dwihno>        find / -type trouble
+<Bagder>        gaaah
+<Bagder>        May 17 10:46:22 pm1 named[27762]: exiting (due to assertion failure)
+<dwihno>        hm
+<dwihno>        named must not be stopped!
+<Bagder>        correctomente
+<dwihno>        What version of named?
+<Bagder>        wait, gotta fix this first
+<dwihno>        mkay
+<Bagder>        weirness
+<Bagder>        weirdness
+<Linus> oh
+<Bagder>        named starts from inetd mostly
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<dwihno>        fishy
+<dwihno>        ><))))8>
+<Bagder>        May 17 10:46:22 pm1 named[27762]: message.c:808: REQUIRE(*rdataset == 0) failed
+*       Bagder goes debugging
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     elinenbe has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.6 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0+/20020513]")
+<Zagor> gah!
+*       Zagor notes the bjorn.haxx.se http access log has grown to 460 MB since december
+<dwihno>        oh my god! :/
+<dwihno>        <-- tries to hide his DOS attack with some vanilla sauce
+*       Zagor shops for a good log analyzer
+<dwihno>        Denial of Sås
+<dwihno>        We got analog
+<Zagor> is it good?
+<dwihno>        then webalizer
+<dwihno>        analog is extremely configurable
+<dwihno>        webalizer produces nice graphs ;D
+<Zagor> i'll try analog
+<Bagder>        I moved lots of files from the sim dir to the apps dir
+<Bagder>        and made the x11-simulator build again, both versions
+<Zagor> nice
+<Bagder>        updated the activity too with the new paths
+<dwihno>        Do you have a slogan for the Rockbox project yet?
+<Bagder>        "its better to rock a box than to box a rock"
+<Bagder>        :-P
+<dwihno>        hehe
+<dwihno>        box a rock?! :)
+<dwihno>        No fun
+<Zagor> we don't need no steeenkin slogan :)
+<dwihno>        :~(
+<dwihno>        So what can I contribute with to the project?
+<dwihno>        ascii art? :)
+<Zagor> haha
+<dwihno>        Seriousley
+<dwihno>        I want to contribuyte
+<dwihno>        I can make new games :)
+<Zagor> fire away. asteriods is still unclaimed :)
+<dwihno>        hehe
+<dwihno>        Tell me about the development environment and the test software you are using :)
+<Zagor> have you read the API file?
+<dwihno>        I have ZERO files
+<dwihno>        Except from JPEG's ;D
+<Zagor> go browse the cvs
+<Zagor> http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/cvs.html
+<Zagor> 180603 hits in /rockbox/ :)
+<Zagor> plus another 30209 in /jukebox/
+<dwihno>        juckbox :)
+<dwihno>        On monday I will place my order for a recorder! :D
+<Bagder>        that's the spirit! ;-)
+<dwihno>        Oh
+<dwihno>        I just found out monday is a day off
+<Bagder>        yeps
+<dwihno>        Luckily I found out it now, or I would have been here on monday morning :)
+<Bagder>        http://daniel.haxx.se/hexpoetry/goodies.html
+<Zagor> yay!
+<Bagder>        it seems people keep busy with useful things ;-)
+<dwihno>        hahaha
+<dwihno>        mongo :)
+<dwihno>        baddade blodad collie
+<dwihno>        fifflade labile olof
+<dwihno>        haha
+<Zagor> we should separate the player and recorder code, and not have everything in apps/ root
+<Zagor> icons, bmp, tetris, screensaver etc
+<Bagder>        true
+-->     linuxstb (dave@dsl-212-23-31-215.zen.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        hi daev
+<Bagder>        dave
+<linuxstb>      Hi - what happenning to the CVS? :-)
+<Bagder>        haha
+<Bagder>        we move sources into apps that are meant for target and simulator
+<Bagder>        to have the uisimulator for simulator stuff only
+<linuxstb>      I think that's a good thing.  When do you think you will be finished?
+<Bagder>        dunno, we just discussed putting the recorder-specific files in their own subdir in apps
+<linuxstb>      OK, I'll hang around here and see what happens.  I'm still working at the moment, but was distracted by the CVS action.
+<--     calpefrosch|work has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        don't expect any more work from my side today, I'm busy elsewhere atm
+---     dwihno is now known as dw|gone
+<Zagor> i'll be getting the simulator working with player keypad
+<Zagor> then I plan to test it on target tonight
+<Bagder>        right on!
+<Zagor> and polish some of the remaining issues like key polling etc
+<Zagor> friday candy time
+<Bagder>        lots of adding and deleting today ;-)
+<Zagor> yeah. cvs history is for wimps! :)
+<Bagder>        we don't want the history, we want the future! ;-)
+<Zagor> hrmpf. the simulator doesn't work without lcd_update
+<Zagor> who do I yell at? ;)
+*       Bagder hides
+<Zagor> where is sim_lcd_puts defined? it's not in any .h .c. or .s file!?!
+<Bagder>        magic
+<Bagder>        its in lcd-x11.c
+<Bagder>        because it is #define d
+<Bagder>        so the names in the file don't have sim_ prefixes
+<Zagor> where is it defined?
+<Bagder>        x11/chardef.h
+<Bagder>        that construction is a bit ugly
+<Bagder>        but I saw no way around it
+<Bagder>        sim_lcd_puts should just do lcd_update() by itself
+<Zagor> but those defines are the other way. they define lcd_puts, not sim_lcd_puts
+<Zagor> i'm confused
+<Zagor> ah, oh.. bluearch!
+<Zagor> damn, bagder. that's UUUUGLY! :-)
+<Bagder>        you make it better then
+<Bagder>        the problem is that it needs *both* lcd systems when simulating the player
+<Zagor> explain it to me, what problem are you solving?
+<Zagor> hmm
+<Bagder>        the player simulator uses the recorder-simultor code
+<Bagder>        for char output
+<Zagor> right
+<Zagor> gotta go. see you guys later
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<Bagder>        bye
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     calpefrosch|away (~hotrana@p5082C742.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #rockbox
+<--     calpefrosch|away has quit (Client Quit)
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<elinenbe>      Under news on the main page there have been no updates for more than 2 weeks.  Maybe it is time to place a little updat there ;)
+<Zagor> any suggestions?
+<linuxstb>      I don't know any news, but is it possible to upload some more IRC logs (if they exist)?
+<elinenbe>      something like "The project is prgessing nicely and we offering a $10,000 (USD) prize in the DSP programming challenge... stay tuned for more information"
+<Zagor> hehe
+<linuxstb>      :-)
+<Zagor> that reminds me, i should submit a help request to sourceforge
+<linuxstb>      What is on the wishlist for DSP programming?
+<linuxstb>      (apart from ogg)
+<elinenbe>      wma :)
+<elinenbe>      just kidding
+<elinenbe>      how powerful is the DSP?
+<linuxstb>      I think the only sensible "wish" is uncompressed recording and playback.
+<Zagor> pure WAV is a frequent request
+<elinenbe>      that is something that many people ask for.
+<elinenbe>      and with the recorder -- pur wav recording
+<linuxstb>      And it shouldn't be too difficult to program - if you know the hardware.
+<elinenbe>      is it possible to compile the source and run something on the actual player yet?
+<Zagor> i'm working on that right now
+<Zagor> having a bit of setup problems, for some reason
+<linuxstb>      Good luck - that's worth an entry in the news if you succeed.
+<elinenbe>      well, if you get something working do you think you will upload the compiled firmware?
+<Zagor> sure
+<elinenbe>      how far away do you think you are?
+<elinenbe>      this is quite exciting.
+<Zagor> oh, not far. this is all tested code, it's just some snag
+<linuxstb>      Changing the subject, I want to implement the mpeg playing API for the X11 simulator tonight...
+<Zagor> the problem is my gf is coming over in just over an hour :)
+<elinenbe>      are the simulators pretty much stable right now?
+<linuxstb>      ... but am not sure where to put the files.
+<elinenbe>      well, priorities are priorities
+<Zagor> linuxstb: why not in the x11 lib?
+<Zagor> directory, i mean
+<elinenbe>      where do you live?  Sweden?
+<Zagor> yes
+<elinenbe>      so, it is 8pm there?
+<linuxstb>      Zagor: OK, but how should I stop it breaking the win32 simulator and the target?
+<Zagor> the irc logs are adiamas' job, btw. i'm not sure why there hasn't been any checkins of those lately
+<elinenbe>      you should NOT go waste your time with Star Wars.  The movie is awul
+<elinenbe>      awful
+<elinenbe>      I dont even know if you have it yet
+<Zagor> linuxstb: you can't keep win32 working. don't meddle with the target files yet
+<linuxstb>      Zagor: are you asking me to wait before implementing it?
+<Zagor> in target, yes. add it to the simulator only right now
+<linuxstb>      I thought the target and simulator shared the same code (apps/)?
+<Zagor> some of it, yes. make a local copy of you want to test. I'm working in apps right now
+<linuxstb>      OK - no problem.
+<linuxstb>      I'll let you get back to your Archos now.  Bye.
+<Zagor> :) no problem
+<Zagor> i can't get the player lcd to work :*(
+<elinenbe>      I cry with you
+<elinenbe>      :`(
+---     elinenbe is now known as elinenbe|class
+<--     elinenbe|class has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.6 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0+/20020513]")
+<Zagor> ooooh, I'm browsing my archos!
+<Zagor> but only with debugf()s :)
+<Zagor> anyone alive here, feeling like testing my app?
+<Zagor> i'm starting to wonder if my lcd lives at all
+<--     linuxstb has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<Zagor> well, gotta go. bye all
+<--     Zagor has quit ("bye")
+-->     linuxstb (dave@dsl-212-23-31-215.zen.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<--     linuxstb has quit ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.0")
+<adi|work>      anyone around?
+<PsycoXul>      no
+<adi|work>      okay :)(
+-->     [TDM]Mr_B|away (~nx_2000@ip68-0-62-70.no.no.cox.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     [TDM]Mr_B|away is now known as [TDM]Mr_B
+<--     [TDM]Mr_B has quit (Client Quit)
+<--     Tumm has quit (goethe.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+-->     Tumm (coyote@dreamhosted.borlange.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     elinenbe|class (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     stew (stew@mooax4-183.dialup.optusnet.com.au) has joined #rockbox
+<--     stew (stew@mooax4-183.dialup.optusnet.com.au) has left #rockbox
+<--     elinenbe|class has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<--     adi|work has quit (goethe.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<--     jb1081 has quit (goethe.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<--     PsycoXul has quit (goethe.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+-->     adi|work (~adiamas@pool-151-204-140-140.ny325.east.verizon.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     jb1081 (~jb1081@lime.ircam.fr) has joined #rockbox
+-->     PsycoXul (psyco@adsl-63-205-43-243.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     elinenbe|class (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     elinenbe|class is now known as elinenbe
+<--     elinenbe has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.6 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0+/20020513]")
+-->     jb1081_ (~jb1081@aboukir-101-1-14-jb1081.adsl.nerim.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     jb1081 has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+---     jb1081_ is now known as jb1081
+---     You are now known as adi|OutWithGirlF
+<--     jb1081 has quit (goethe.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+-->     jb1081 (~jb1081@aboukir-101-1-14-jb1081.adsl.nerim.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     jb1081 has quit ("Client Exiting")
+---     You are now known as adi|home
+---     Disconnected (Remote host closed socket).
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun May 19 13:32:25 2002
+
diff --git a/www/irc/rockbox-20020521.log b/www/irc/rockbox-20020521.log
new file mode 100644
index 0000000000..b36c8b251e
--- /dev/null
+++ b/www/irc/rockbox-20020521.log
@@ -0,0 +1,724 @@
+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun May 19 13:32:37 2002
+
+-->     adi|home (~adiamas@as5300-9.216-194-23-128.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     Topic for #rockbox is Does your box rock? http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+---     Topic for #rockbox set by Bagder at Mon May 13 04:46:28
+-->     pippoblu (pippoblu@TVT-CaTV-dhcp-45-101.urbanet.ch) has joined #rockbox
+<--     pippoblu (pippoblu@TVT-CaTV-dhcp-45-101.urbanet.ch) has left #rockbox
+-->     [TDM]Mr_B|away (~nx_2000@ip68-0-62-70.no.no.cox.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     [TDM]Mr_B|away is now known as [TDM]Mr_B
+<--     [TDM]Mr_B has quit ()
+-->     wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<--     wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has left #rockbox
+-->     elinenbe (elinenbe@adder.engin.umich.edu) has joined #rockbox
+---     Tumm is now known as tumm
+<elinenbe>      hello there
+-->     martin__ (~martin@pD9E7A37E.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     martin__ (~martin@pD9E7A37E.dip.t-dialin.net) has left #rockbox ("Client Exiting")
+<--     elinenbe has quit ("Leaving")
+---     tumm is now known as Tumm
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     fall3 (~francis@nas-cbv-9-62-147-161-190.dial.proxad.net) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> hi fall3
+<fall3> hi
+<--     fall3 (~francis@nas-cbv-9-62-147-161-190.dial.proxad.net) has left #rockbox ("Fermeture du client")
+<adi|work>      ack!!! ppl...
+<adi|work>      make them leave!!!!
+<Zagor> haha
+<adi|work>      did the changes i made to the rockbox make sense?
+<adi|work>      btw
+<adi|work>      oh.. and none of them were reflected on the windows side...
+<Zagor> the credit stuff?
+<Zagor> or do you mean the archos dir?
+<Zagor> my !"#$%&/(/&%$# display seems broken :-(
+<Zagor> nothing i do works
+<--     Zagor has quit ("bye")
+*       adi|home nods knowingly
+-->     motiv01 (~trillian@sdn-ar-001ncraleP018.dialsprint.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     motiv01 (~trillian@sdn-ar-001ncraleP018.dialsprint.net) has left #rockbox
+---     dw|gone is now known as dwihno
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<dwihno>        HELLÖ! :D
+*       dwihno vinkar
+-->     calpefrosch|work (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        morning
+<calpefrosch|work>      morning
+<dwihno>        Höj höj
+<dwihno>        I sold one of my computers last night
+<dwihno>        So now I got to spend my money on archos stuff ,D
+<Bagder>        cool
+<dwihno>        yup
+*       Bagder drowns in his email flow
+*       dwihno sends some more mail to Bagder 
+<dwihno>        10: print "hello"
+<dwihno>        20: goto 10
+<adi|home>      ack!!!
+<--     calpefrosch|work has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<adi|home>      ppl here...
+<adi|home>      no.. ppl arent allowed here...
+<Bagder>        hey adiamas
+<adi|home>      its been _my_ room for like 3 days...
+<adi|home>      GO AWAY!!!!!
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<adi|home>      this is _my_ room!!!!
+<adi|home>      heheh
+*       Bagder boos
+<adi|home>      have you seen the credits list on the uisim?
+<Bagder>        I saw the code on the cvs list, that's all yet
+<adi|home>      would work fine if i wern' for you sweds and your funny looking letters
+<Bagder>        ah right
+<Bagder>        Björn should change his name ;-)
+<adi|home>      damn right...
+<adi|home>      don't see me interjecting cyrillic letters in my name do ya?
+<Bagder>        not yet ;-)
+<adi|home>      as an exampel :)
+<adi|home>      that and i fixed the splash sceen a bit
+<adi|home>      you know.. really "useful" stuff..
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<dwihno>        Dr. Zagmaster!
+<Zagor> woo there
+<Bagder>        we should make the credits scroll
+<Bagder>        hey Zagor
+<dwihno>        The splash screen should be configurable - think about ppl wanting a quick startup
+<adi|home>      nah.. ppl deal with the spash screen now..
+<adi|home>      while the firmware is "loading"
+<dwihno>        spending precious CPU cycles with scrollers?!
+<dwihno>        :-D
+<adi|home>      and im sorry.. if you in a such a rush you can't wait 200 milliseconds..
+<dwihno>        Do you realize the insanity!? :)
+<Bagder>        yes!
+<dwihno>        200 msec's is 195 too many!
+<adi|home>      hehehe
+<adi|home>      and fortanetly... 100 milliseconds faster then most of us think ;)
+<dwihno>        http://www.hackles.org/cgi-bin/archives.pl?request=166
+<Bagder>        Zagor: did you run the app on target ?
+<Zagor> i tried, but I think my screen is broken :-(
+<dwihno>        :-(
+<Bagder>        asch
+*       dwihno sends Zagor some karlssons klister
+<dwihno>        You can fix just about everything with that goo!
+<Zagor> it works fine, the debug output tells me :-)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<dwihno>        See, the glue fixed it!
+<dwihno>        Never underestimate the power of the Karlsson side!
+<Bagder>        Zagor: so we basicly need to add Linus' mpeg thread to have a v1?
+<Zagor> yup
+<Bagder>        kewlness
+<adi|home>      can the uisim play music yet?
+<Bagder>        on linux, it should be able to
+<Bagder>        I haven't tried
+<adi|home>      cause i was just thinking.. it might be perversly cool to realase the uisim evenutally as another mp3 player front end :)
+<Zagor> haha
+<Bagder>        hahaha
+*       adi|home wonders if that was good or bad laughter
+<Bagder>        perverse it is
+<adi|home>      hell... least ppl could play tetris while listening ;)
+<Bagder>        very very tiny tetris
+<adi|home>      well.. we offer it to 3 years olds...
+<adi|home>      their very very tiny ppl
+<adi|home>      did we ever find out if there is a specific reason you can't use the remote control witht he recorders?
+<Zagor> you can
+<Zagor> i do
+<Zagor> i guess the earliest firmware versions simply didn't listen to the serial port. current versions do.
+<adi|home>      cool
+<dwihno>        remote control(?)
+<Zagor> there's a wire remote you plug into the headphone jack. it's an extra accessory
+<dwihno>        cool
+<dwihno>        does it come with the basic set or do you have to order some extra widgets?
+<dwihno>        eww
+<dwihno>        <-- smells like a dog all over the hands
+<Zagor> extra
+<dwihno>        stupid dog, running around licking my hand
+<Zagor> it comes with the "travel kit", for some reason
+<adi|home>      well.. first tme i saw this
+<adi|home>      ver 1.21d "Implemented improved SCMS* (Serial Copyright Management System), Fixed bugs within
+<adi|home>                                                     SCMS, which caused errors when encoding from digital source."
+<dwihno>        Should I get the travel kit?
+<Zagor> nah
+<Zagor> i never use the remote except for testing
+<adi|home>      no you should get the travel kit instead
+<Zagor> adi|home: the SCMS can be disabled
+<adi|home>      in software or what?
+<adi|home>      and will we be implimenting it?
+*       adi|home prepares to slap zagor
+<dwihno>        "Serial Copyright Management System"? Sounds fishy
+<Zagor> adi|home: SCMS is software only, as far as I understand
+<Zagor> so we just won't have it
+*       adi|home cheers wildly
+<dwihno>        Why does the recorder store the streams in VBR btw?
+<adi|home>      someday.. when i can afford to buy congressmen too.. im going to repeal the DMCA
+<dwihno>        I guess you gurus might have the answer to that question ;D
+<Zagor> dwihno: the encoder chip only supports VBR
+<dwihno>        Zagor: ah, okay...
+<Zagor> actually, VBR is in some ways a simpler MP3 than CBR. due to avoiding the use of "bit resevoirs"
+<dwihno>        Simple answer to simple questions :)
+<adi|home>      so.. seeing as i have more time this week...
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<adi|home>      how close to the jbr do we want the interface to be?
+<dwihno>        wb Linus
+<Linus> yo!
+<adi|home>      and if you could have me work on any higher level stuff.. what would it be?
+<Zagor> adi|home: we'll make two separate interfaces, so make it as close as you like
+<Bagder>        adiamas: we could use some code for dealing with playlists
+<Bagder>        I mean, edit, add, delete etc
+<adi|home>      nod
+<adi|home>      have we implimented unlink() yet?
+<Zagor> we have no write support enabled at the moment
+<adi|home>      as for the 999 playlist limit on the players... do we know if there is a specific reason for i?
+<Zagor> we can't think of any :)
+<adi|home>      thats fine.. i can prob code around it..
+<adi|home>      ghost funcitons etc
+<Zagor> why do you need unlink() ?
+<adi|home>      delete?
+<PsycoXul>      so if someone were to build current CVS firmware and apps for -DARCHOS_PLAYER=1 on both, and threw it on their player, should they expect it to do more than turn the red LED on? heh
+<adi|home>      how else do you delete a file from inside the player?
+<adi|home>      yes.. it should wipe your player and send me your credit card numbers :)
+<Zagor> ok, no there's no other way.
+<Bagder>        PsycoXul: well, zagor believed it worked ;-)
+<Zagor> I want to wait with introducing disk writes for some time. It's a major risk.
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: did you try it?
+<PsycoXul>      well thats what i got
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      it didn't even get rid of the ROM firmware's splash screen
+<Zagor> !?
+<adi|home>      zagor.. you see any prob with getting an unlink() working?
+<adi|home>      we could test that safely
+<Zagor> adi|home: no problems really, but we need to test it exhaustively before letting it out in public
+<adi|home>      thats a given...
+<adi|home>      do we want editing/deleting to be a feature in v1?
+<Zagor> no
+<adi|home>      okay.. then it goes on the back burner.. i can code around it for now...
+<adi|home>      ill just display text saying "your file would normally be <insert action>"
+<adi|home>      :)
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: that's interesting. i thought it was just my frankenstein's archos that didin't work. i'll try on linus' archos next.
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<adi|home>      i have a small recommendation...
+<adi|home>      the lcd code...
+<adi|home>      wouldnt it make sense to have a Recorder version and a player version?
+<adi|home>      with 90% of the player version just empty functions?
+<adi|home>      this way we don't need all the #ifdefs all over the place?
+<adi|home>      and just localize the #ifdefs to inside the lcd.[ch]?
+<Bagder>        lots of the lcd #ifdefs is due to how the player simulator is working
+<adi|home>      ?
+<Bagder>        becuase it uses the recorder simulator's LCD functions
+<adi|home>      right... and?
+<Zagor> I think adi is talking about #ifdefs in the application code, such as tree.c
+<adi|home>      yeah
+<Bagder>        ah, ok, I'll shut up ;-)
+<adi|home>      #ifdef HAVE_LCD_BITMAP
+<adi|home>                          lcd_update();
+<adi|home>      #endif
+<adi|home>      in the app code all over is just hideous
+<adi|home>      so if we did lcd_update
+<adi|home>      lcd_update(){}
+<adi|home>      for player
+<Zagor> it's a good point. should we have the same API for both?
+<adi|home>      and the real function for recorder
+<Zagor> actually, I added a dummy player lcd_update() yesterday... :)
+<adi|home>      if not the same.. then very similar
+*       adi|home saw that.. 
+<adi|home>      its what gave me the idea...
+<adi|home>      i could test out the theory and see how it works/looks before i toss it up..
+<adi|home>      pass it off to you guys to play with ..
+<Zagor> so the question is: should we have a dummy lcd_setfont() lcd_setmargins() etc for the player too?
+<adi|home>      yeah..
+<adi|home>      but i woulnd't even say "dummy"
+<adi|home>      i would do this...
+<adi|home>      void lcd_update() {
+<adi|home>      #ifdef.....
+<adi|home>      #else
+<adi|home>      #endif
+<adi|home>      }
+<adi|home>      keep it localized
+<adi|home>      wherever possible
+<adi|home>      the functions that have to differ, well those take diff. args.
+<adi|home>      let the compiler optimize all the crap out
+<Zagor> actually, I was thinking of doing the player stubs as empty macros so they're not even called
+<adi|home>      i assumed that if a function was empty, and called, then the compiler would just optimize it out anyway
+<Zagor> yeah, i guess
+<Bagder>        no
+<Bagder>        they're in different files
+<Zagor> ah, right. so it can't know
+<adi|home>      ahh.. so it still has to link it in?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<adi|home>      so Zag.. what did you mean about the macros.. what were you thinking?
+<Zagor> #ifdef PLAYER
+<Zagor> #define lcd_update()
+<Zagor> #else
+<Zagor> void  lcd_update(void)
+<Zagor> {
+<Zagor> dodum();
+<Zagor> }
+<Zagor> #endif
+<Zagor> or, uh no. i mean the header file not the implementation
+<Zagor> do I make sense?
+<adi|home>      so in the header youd have like
+<adi|home>      #ifdef PLAYER
+<adi|home>      #define lcd_update()
+<adi|home>      #else
+<adi|home>      void lcd_update(void);
+<adi|home>      #endif
+<adi|home>      ?
+<dwihno>        Just a quick question... Should I order something extra than the 'basic' recorder package?
+<Zagor> yes, that was my thought
+<adi|home>      nah
+<adi|home>      you can get what you need off ebay
+<Bagder>        dwihno: no, I don't think so
+<dwihno>        ah, okay
+<Zagor> dwihno: better headphones
+<dwihno>        Then I'll place my order
+<adi|home>      hmmm.. well.. only down side .. what about functions taht take arguements?
+<dwihno>        Zagor: Already got that ;D
+<adi|home>      yeah. i hate the ones that come with the recorder
+<Zagor> adi|home: #define lcd_setfont(__font__)
+<adi|home>      ?
+<adi|home>      wtf does __font__ become?
+<Bagder>        it eats the argument
+<Zagor> it's just a declaration that eats the argument
+<adi|home>      ah.. so just like #define lcd_setfont(x)
+<Bagder>        it is for #define moo(x) poo(x)
+<adi|home>      nods
+<Zagor> yes
+<adi|home>      hehe was the __ that through me...
+<adi|home>      thought i was missing something :)
+<Zagor> ah, well you can skip those
+<adi|home>      well.. might i sugest then #define lcd_setfont(IgnoreMe) or something?
+<adi|home>      or whatever
+<adi|home>      hmm.. let me go play for a min
+<Zagor> sure
+*       dwihno gets the bucket and shovel and follows adi to the playground
+<Zagor> bagder, linus: what's your opinion about this kind of shadow functions? I'm still not sure what I think.
+<adi|home>      personally.. i think as long as we state we're doing it.. (in the docs) its a good idea
+<Zagor> it could get confusing and bug ridden, since bad code will still "work" on one of the two
+<Bagder>        I think they're fine, as it makes modules that are shared for both LCDs more readable
+<Linus> I didn't follow
+<adi|home>      want i should explain linus?
+<Linus> Is it about accepting a setfont() call on the Player?
+<Zagor> yes
+<adi|home>      sorta
+<Linus> Then I think it's dirty, but acceptable
+<adi|home>      we are still early enough on the road that if we don't like it.. we can always switch back
+<Zagor> right
+<dwihno>        It's a more cosmetically nice way than 102401 #ifdef's
+<Linus> indeed
+<adi|home>      nods
+<adi|home>      and once the api is set in stone. life gets easier for others that want to work on the project
+<adi|home>      "oh just use the api, it takes care of itself" is easier and nicer to say then "remember to #ifdef around everything"
+<Bagder>        right, but people will still do mistakes
+<Bagder>        since the player won't require lcd_update() but the recorder does
+<Linus> Well, I don't like to say "set in stone" but I see what you mean.
+<adi|home>      thats true...
+<dwihno>        As long as we are not assimilated by borg, we just have to deal with those problems as those arise.
+<adi|home>      what we could do is have all the #defines call one common funciton that prints it was called on debug
+<adi|home>      shrugs
+<Zagor> the application code works on linus' archos, but not mine :-(
+<dwihno>        Zagor: Hmm, fishy! Has he some HW mods that yours don't have?
+<Zagor> well my archos is a monster. it's a new cpu and an old lcd.
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: did you make sure the Makefile for both apps and firmware specified the right player version?
+<dwihno>        Zagor: Have you raped your archos?
+<Zagor> oh yes :)
+<dwihno>        You mad sadist!
+<Zagor> we wouldn't be at this point without ripping them apart and poking around
+<dwihno>        Next time, get some photos while you're at it ;)
+<Zagor> you mean http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/internals/ isn't good enough?
+<adi|home>      would it be "#defin lcd_update();" or #define lcd_update()  ?
+<adi|home>      semi-colon or not
+<Zagor> not
+<dwihno>        Zagor: I want to see some pics of the user interface! :D
+<dwihno>        <-- is a bit perverted, I know
+<Zagor> dwihno: there is no user interface to take pictures of yet. try the simulator
+<adi|home>      yup...
+<adi|home>      i have a really nice screen shot of my tic-tac-toe before my code disappeared :)
+<PsycoXul>      Zagor: yes, i've got a studio 20 and i made sure they were both set to TARGET = -DARCHOS_PLAYER=1
+<Zagor> hehe
+<dwihno>        Zagor: Does it compile with mingw/32? :)
+<Bagder>        dwihno: make it if not
+<dwihno>        Yeah
+<dwihno>        Sounds like a heap'o'fun
+<dwihno>        Where do I start?
+<Bagder>        get the code from CVS
+<Zagor> http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/cvs.html
+<Bagder>        get the firmware, apps and uisimulator directories
+<adi|home>      to compile the player version of the ui, not the recorder... whats the make commandline?
+<Zagor> 'make' :-)
+<Zagor> adjust the Makefile
+<adi|home>      oh damn you...
+<adi|home>      bloody hell :)
+<dwihno>        *checking out*
+<adi|home>      cool...
+<adi|home>      but ya don't need to tell us ;)
+<dwihno>        of course
+<adi|home>      hehehe
+<dwihno>        I don't have anything better to atm
+<dwihno>        So I'll just pester you, great huh :) ?
+<adi|home>      sounds wonderful :)
+<adi|home>      okay.. bedtime
+<adi|home>      niht all..
+<Bagder>        night adi
+<dwihno>        nighty
+-->     wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        hey wavey
+<Zagor> hi wav
+<dwihno>        Is it possible to revert to older versions of the archos firmware without excessive fiddling?
+<Zagor> just copy the old file to the root dir
+<dwihno>        ah
+<dwihno>        I thought the newer versions would prevent this
+<Zagor> no
+<dwihno>        Is the USB-PC communication code in the firmware?
+<Bagder>        no
+<Bagder>        it is beyond the firmware's control
+<dwihno>        ah, okay...
+<dwihno>        Might as well be :)
+*       dwihno drools, today I'm gonna order myself the almighty archos :Õ~~~~~~~~~
+<Linus> dwihno: So we managed to convince you?
+<Zagor> the rockbox sales force :)
+<Linus> We want commission from Archos
+<dwihno>        Linus: Yeah, you did...
+<dwihno>        I just hope I won't get disappointed when my unit arrives.
+<dwihno>        I have extreme high hopes about this product
+<Zagor> well don't expect a miracle product. it does have flaws.
+<Zagor> it's just better than all the rest :)
+<dwihno>        :)
+<dwihno>        Do you think I will get satisified?
+<Linus> The swedish magazine M3 recently had a review of a lame flash-based player with recording capapilities
+<dwihno>        And can I trust the storage? I mean, I don't want the hardware to go bongo when I move all my music to it :)
+<Linus> and they were ASTOUNDED that it actually cound record sound from the Line-In
+<Linus> Bua! They are so lame!
+<dwihno>        hm
+<dwihno>        Journalists != techies
+<Linus> I would rather say that Archos marketing has failed in Sweden
+<Linus> and M3 are totally blindfolded
+<dwihno>        -( )-( )- <-- blindness goggles
+<Zagor> don't trust the storage
+<Linus> I always keep a mirror on my PC
+<Zagor> it doesn't fail easily, but never depend on something you keep in your pocket
+<dwihno>        True. True.
+<dwihno>        How many times has it failed you?
+<Zagor> never
+<Linus> never
+<dwihno>        okay
+<dwihno>        Zagor: you had it for a year or so?
+<dwihno>        Or is it just me being new in the scene? :)
+<Zagor> dwihno: about 18 months
+<dwihno>        oh
+<dwihno>        really strange I've never heard about the archos earlier.
+<dwihno>        marketing failure, I presume
+<Zagor> exactly
+<Zagor> it's a small company, and Creative's weekly marketing budget dwarfs their yearly..
+<dwihno>        well, I do see the positive side - It's a non-hong kong product
+<dwihno>        Never trust fishy hardware from hong kong
+<Zagor> well don't hope too much from archos. they're not "the good guys".
+<dwihno>        You mean, the serial RIAA thingy?
+<wavey> the build quality of the archos units are pretty poor
+<wavey> but worth it in the long run
+<Zagor> no i just mean they are not a better company than anyone else
+<dwihno>        wavey: in what way? does it feel way plastic or such?
+<Linus> they are actually manufactured in China
+<dwihno>        h
+<dwihno>        hm
+<dwihno>        Do they feel like they're gonna break apart any second?
+<Bagder>        no
+<Zagor> no
+<Linus> haha no!
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|lunch
+---     Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
+<wavey> dw: my unit keeps resetting because of bad contacts
+<wavey> needs resoldering
+<wavey> happened after a couple of months
+<dwihno>        geez :/
+<wavey> there's webpages showing where to resolder, because it's not uncommon
+<wavey> this is on a recorder bought in january
+<dwihno>        okay
+<dwihno>        I just hope I will get a flawless unit
+<wavey> i love the device, but i wish it was built by sony
+<dwihno>        Heh
+<dwihno>        +$200 on the price tag :)
+<wavey> alas yes ;)
+<Linus|lunch>   Soun would never build a harddrive-based player
+<Linus|lunch>   Sony
+<Linus|lunch>   They love their silly memory sticks too much
+---     Linus|lunch is now known as Linus
+---     Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor
+<dwihno>        Memory-dick
+<dwihno>        Yeah
+<dwihno>        Expensive shit, just look at the price tags!
+<dwihno>        It's probably in the same range as the recorder-20
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<PsycoXul>      in main.c i commented out everything after init(); in main() and put app_main(); there
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: when did you try the app? this weekend, or yesterday evening?
+<PsycoXul>      and when i run that i get "Rockbox!" displayed on the screen
+<PsycoXul>      and then when i press a button it goes away and the LED turns red
+<Zagor> ah
+<Zagor> nothing more?
+<PsycoXul>      and the LCD still never clears properly on the player, i'm always left with the 03 on the 2nd line after the rom version 5.03 splashscreen
+<dwihno>        Press the button and the LED turns reeed! :D (alternative infinite mass lyrics)
+<PsycoXul>      "ROCKbox!" is all it says
+<PsycoXul>      and then any button gets rid of that, red LED comes on, and thats it [and the 03's still there :p]
+<Zagor> if you keep the old browse_root() call, nothing comes up?
+<Zagor> I want to change the UI: the browser should be the first thing that comes up, not a "where do you want to go today" menu
+<Zagor> when you press MENU, *then* the menu comes up
+<Zagor> anyone against that?
+<Bagder>        nope
+<dwihno>        Sounds like a good idea
+<PsycoXul>      ok i put a little sleep in
+<dwihno>        Try to keep the button pressing to a minimum
+<PsycoXul>      i also changed the DEBUGF's in the init() in main.c to lcd_prints's so i can see them, and just put a little sleep in after the init and saw it's 
+<PsycoXul>          if (disk_init()) {
+<PsycoXul>      its failing there
+<Zagor> interesting
+<Zagor> those should be panic() calls
+<Zagor> the only thing that can fail in disk_init() is if you don't have a boot sector on your disk
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Zagor> can you do a: dd if=/dev/sda of=disk.img bs=512 count=1
+<Zagor> and send me the disk.img file
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<PsycoXul>      and where's this panic()?
+<Zagor> firmware/panic.c
+<PsycoXul>      panicf()?
+<Zagor> ah, yes
+<Zagor> your boot sector looks fine. sda was your archos, right?
+<PsycoXul>      yes
+<Zagor> hmm
+<PsycoXul>      ok i changed them to panicf()'s we'll see what i get
+<PsycoXul>      ok its actualy a problem before that
+<PsycoXul>          if(ata_init()) {
+<PsycoXul>      its that
+<Zagor> ok
+<Linus> Is is that stupid check_registers() thing?
+<Zagor> no, that's gone
+<Linus> sorry, I meant check_hd()
+<Linus> check_registers() is still there
+<Zagor> sorry, check_regs() is there, check_hd() is removed
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: make the panicf() call print the return code
+<Linus> actually, ata_hard_reset() is probably a stupid thing, BTW
+<PsycoXul>      Zagor: of ata_init?
+<Zagor> yes
+<Linus> I can't see how PA2 is connected to the ATA interface at all
+<Linus> But I might be wrong
+<Linus> My guess is that it does nothing with the harddrive
+<Linus> Sorry, it's PA1
+<Linus> Still, PA1 is the RAS signal
+<Linus> So setting PA1=0 will do nothing whatsoever with the HD
+<Zagor> odd
+<Linus> yup
+<PsycoXul>      er why's %d for int, man.. i just booted it up to see it print 'i' :p
+<Zagor> %d is ancient. dunno why it came to be.
+<Bagder>        probably for decimal
+<Zagor> decimal, probably. as opposed to %x hex
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      ata_init()'s returning -1
+<Zagor> we could add a case 'i' in sprintf.c to avoid that mistake
+<Zagor> assuming %d and %i is the same
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<dwihno>        Who did the ATA code?
+<dwihno>        Zagor?
+<Zagor> i did
+<Zagor> based on alan's code
+<dwihno>        ah, okay
+<Zagor> can the simulators do threading now?
+<Bagder>        no
+<Bagder>        do we need that at this point?
+<Zagor> that should be a priority, we'll need at least queues for keypresses soon
+<Bagder>        why?
+<Zagor> this poll();sleep(1) isn't very good
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Bagder>        we'll just move that to the simulated keyget code
+<Zagor> it works on simulator, but gives one hell of a key repeat on target
+<Bagder>        we can do that without threads
+<Zagor> right
+<Bagder>        I just prefer to avoid threads in the simulator as far as possible
+<Zagor> ok. yes we can probably do without them for now
+<PsycoXul>      so as far as i can tell wait_for_bsy() is timing out?
+<Linus> OK. So the ATA code fails at ata_hard_reset()?
+<PsycoXul>      apparently
+<Zagor> no, there's not wait_for_bsy() in ata_hard_reset()
+<Linus> OK. wait_for_rdy() then
+<Linus> big deal it times out
+<Zagor> *what* times out, is the question
+<Linus> wait_for_rdy()
+<Zagor> he said wait_for_bsy()
+<PsycoXul>      yeah but wait_for_rdy() calls wait_for_bsy
+<Zagor> doh. i'm a moron
+<Linus> is ata_hard_reset() fails, it can only be wait_for_rdy()
+<PsycoXul>      right
+<PsycoXul>      which can only fail if wait_for_bsy times out
+<Zagor> try commenting it out
+<PsycoXul>      which?
+<Zagor> the call to ata_hard_reset()
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<Zagor> in ata_init()
+<Linus> then the next wait_for_bsy() call will fail...
+<Zagor> right
+*       Zagor is a cotton head
+<Linus> We should debugf() the contents of the ATA status register
+<Zagor> coffee time'
+<PsycoXul>      yeah so then it just returns -4 heh
+<Zagor> add this line to ata_init():
+<Zagor> panicf("stat: %02x", ATA_STATUS);
+<PsycoXul>      where in there?
+<Zagor> just before ata_hard_reset()
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<PsycoXul>      says
+<PsycoXul>      stat: 00
+<Zagor> ok
+<Zagor> you have a "new" player, right?
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<Zagor> hmm
+<Zagor> how big disk do you have?
+<PsycoXul>      20G
+<Zagor> ok
+<Zagor> is it a 6000 or a Studio?
+<PsycoXul>      studio
+*       Zagor hmms some more
+<PsycoXul>      math 15360*1024
+<PsycoXul>      er
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Zagor> hang on, testing on my unit
+<Zagor> stat: 50
+<Zagor> hmm, hmm and hmm again
+<PsycoXul>      maybe the rom firmware's doing something different?
+<Zagor> yes. or the hardware is different
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Zagor> did any of alan's disk test code ever run on your archos?
+<PsycoXul>      never tried it 
+<Zagor> ok
+<Zagor> but you run the same archos.mod firmware updates as any 6000 user, right?
+<PsycoXul>      yep
+<PsycoXul>      5.07a
+<Linus> Damn. We need a serial-modded new player
+<Linus> I wish the donated player had a working serial port...
+<Linus> Silly me. It has.
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Linus> It's just that the charging unit was broken, so we decided to use Björns old display board
+<Linus> If we fix the broken board, we have a "new" player to debug
+<Linus> we==me, unfortunately... :-)
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Zagor> I think it's time to do that. this "franchos" of ours isn't working too well
+<PsycoXul>      anything else you want me to test?
+<Zagor> not right now
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<Zagor> menu.c is much too recorder specific
+<Linus> not very surprising
+<Linus> I have made a logic analyzer trace of the Old (tm) Player LCD init sequence
+<Zagor> ah!
+<Linus> It doesn't seem to be the Solomon LCD that we thought it was
+<Zagor> uhhh, do I want to hear this? ;)
+<Linus> Zagor: we should publish it and let people try to figure out what it is
+<Zagor> sure
+<dwihno>        Damn
+<dwihno>        You are evil hardware guru jultomtar dudes!
+<Linus> Our LCD shifting code doesn't talk to the LCD in the same way that the original firmware does
+<Zagor> dwihno: is that good or bad? ;)
+<dwihno>        Zagor: *jultomte* = excellent! :D
+<Linus> It only sets the command/data bit in the last bit
+<dwihno>        "1 bit should be enough for everyone"
+<Linus> We do it for every bit
+<Linus> I'm not sure that it matters at all, though
+<Linus> the Solomon data sheet says that it is only sampled every 8th bit
+<Zagor> Linus: that's intentional
+<Linus> and I assume that our LCD isn't that much different in that aspect
+<Zagor> we do it once, and then loop through all 8 bits
+<Zagor> it's less complex than stopping and handling one bit specially
+<Zagor> I assumed it would work the same
+<Linus> I know, Zagor. Just pointng out a difference
+<Zagor> ok
+<Linus> So now I need a similar trace of the New(tm) Player
+<Linus> Zagor: If you don't mind running on batteries, you can just switch LCD board right away
+<Zagor> sure
+<Linus> And we can trace your LCD while we're at it
+<Bagder>        go go go
+<dwihno>        1x2
+<Zagor> hmm, tree.c and menu.c have much in common. we should merge them
+<dwihno>        There. My order has been placed.
+<Linus> I just analyzed Björns New(tm) Player. The init sequence for new and old LCD are identical
+<Bagder>        that's good at least
+<dwihno>        really strange
+<Linus> Well, almost identical. A single command differs
+<Linus> But that might just be that the firmwares are of different revisions
+<Linus> I gitta fly now.
+<Linus> gotta
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<Bagder>        maybe the 
+<Bagder>        desc part of the credits isn't necessary in the software
+<Zagor> i know. i just made a quick port
+<dwihno>        Bagder: I've ordered my archos now!
+<dwihno>        :D
+<Bagder>        when will you get it?
+<dwihno>        hm
+<dwihno>        dunno
+<dwihno>        a couple of days, I presume
+<dwihno>        Hm... 20 gigs over USB1 will take several hours
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        get a usb2 card ;-)
+<Zagor> Bagder: the simulator has no tick, right?
+<Bagder>        Zagor: tick?
+<Zagor> timer tick, for splash timeout for instance
+<Bagder>        no, but sleep() should work
+<Zagor> ah. yes
+<dwihno>        Bagder: Nah, I don't need it :) For initial sync it would be nice, but it will be nothing but overkill later on
+<Bagder>        overkill speedwise is nice ;-)
+<dwihno>        heh
+<dwihno>        nah :)
+<Bagder>        time to go home, see ya
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<Zagor> i'm off too. see you guys
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+---     dwihno is now known as dw|gone
+<--     wavey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+-->     wavey (~wavey@host-54.valtech.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<adi|work>      can i assume there is an off button on the player?
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> adi|home: you here?
+<Tumm>  tänk på att
+<Tumm>  om man slår yxan i båten, får man ro som fan
+<Zagor> :)
+*       Tumm har tråkigt... väldigt tråkigt
+<Zagor> han pratar! :)
+<Tumm>  ;)
+<Tumm>  följer utvecklingen via mailinglistorna...
+<Zagor> ok
+<Tumm>  tar studenten om 2 veckor, så jag har tyvvär inte hunnit skaffa mig så mycket kunskaper om inbyggda system...
+<Tumm>  sitter mes och försöker knåpa ihop demos :)
+<Tumm>  eller...
+<Zagor> vilken plattform?
+<Tumm>  win32 för tillfället
+<--     wavey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<adi|work>      yeah Zagor whats up?
+<Zagor> the off key has to be #ifdef SIMULATOR
+<adi|work>      nods
+<Zagor> the firmware must never exit
+<adi|work>      ahhh, okay :)
+<Zagor> i'm fixing it now, so don't worry :)
+<adi|work>      ah.. was about to commit :)
+<adi|work>      then nm
+<Zagor> too late :)
+<adi|work>      i was giving some thought to the whole 'not read a valid file' thing
+<adi|work>      one concern was excessive spin up and down of the drive...
+<adi|work>      but if you are planning to 'play' the file, then its not a concern is it?
+<Zagor> it might still be, if you take some time to select the next it will spin down and up agin
+<Zagor> we should filter out non-mp3 files
+<adi|work>      you just read your first buffer in, then check and confirm that it is one of the format we want..
+<adi|work>      i dont evn think that...
+<adi|work>      no reason you shouldn't be able to 'read' a text file
+<Zagor> right, but perhaps not in the mp3 player mode? i haven't thought about it...
+<adi|work>      hmmm i don't think there should be a 'mp3' mode and a 'not mp3 mode'
+<Zagor> maybe not
+*       adi|work shrugs
+<adi|work>      ill be around later tonight.. we can try and think it through then...
+<Zagor> yup
+<adi|work>      btw.. what time is it by you?
+<Zagor> 22:32
+<adi|work>      should be like midnight no?
+<adi|work>      nods
+<adi|work>      so ill see you in your morning ;)
+<Zagor> heh, ok
+<--     Zagor has quit ("bye")
+<PsycoXul>      well the archos firmware does handle being turned off somehow, because custom firmware won't turn off with the power plugged in but archos firmware will
+---     Disconnected (Connection timed out).
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 21 20:07:37 2002
+
diff --git a/www/irc/rockbox-20020522.log b/www/irc/rockbox-20020522.log
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+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 21 22:49:19 2002
+
+-->     adiamas (~adiamas@as5300-9.216-194-23-88.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     Topic for #rockbox is Does your box rock? http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+---     Topic for #rockbox set by Bagder at Mon May 13 04:46:28
+---     You are now known as adi|home
+---     dw|gone is now known as dwihno
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<dwihno>        Hail to the almighty LINUS!: D
+<Linus> Yo!
+<Linus> Where did you order your Archos? And did you order a Recorder?
+<dwihno>        I ordered it from Dustin
+<dwihno>        Yeah, a recorder model
+<dwihno>        I also ordered myself a new "dual optical" mouse from logitech ;D
+<Linus> Nice.
+<dwihno>        yeah :)
+<dwihno>        I just hope my expectations won't fail me ;)
+<Linus> Me too.
+<adi|home>      weclome back all :)
+<dwihno>        thanks
+<Linus> Hi adi!
+<dwihno>        I might get it today
+<dwihno>        (that is, if I'm _EXTREMELY_ lucky) ;)
+<PsycoXul>      btw the archos firmware does handle being turned off somehow, because custom firmware won't turn off with the power plugged in but archos firmware will
+<Linus> Oh. That's something we'll have to look into
+<dwihno>        PsycoXul: how extensivly have you been testing the new code on the actual hardware?
+<PsycoXul>      well lets see i threw it on there last night and didn't past ata_init() so uh not very? :p
+<Linus> Strange, that thing with the ATA...
+<Linus> PsycoXul: have you opened your box?
+<PsycoXul>      no
+<Linus> Ok.
+<dwihno>        heheh
+<dwihno>        Well, try to have a positive perspective - you at least got to ata_init() :)
+<dwihno>        Was it the first test on actual hardware you performed last night?
+<PsycoXul>      i've played with little pieces of code on the hardware a good amount
+<dwihno>        cool :)
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        hey ho
+<dwihno>        Hello Bagder! :D
+<Linus> Yo Bagder!
+<Bagder>        oh crap, Linus got here before me!!! :-)
+<dwihno>        :D
+<dwihno>        He was here REALLY early!
+<dwihno>        07:38 <Linus> Yo!
+<dwihno>        You can't beat that! :D
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        I'm pretty often at work before that actually
+<Linus> But then he's so tired he can't even read or speak. :-)
+<Bagder>        its just a matter of coffee amounts :)
+<dwihno>        Hehe
+<dwihno>        The caffeine is your friend! :D
+<dwihno>        <-- just had his third cup of coffee
+<Linus> Björns donated player has an old display after all
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Linus> Version 4.13
+<Bagder>        did you get anything displayed on it?
+<Linus> Stone dead.
+<Linus> And the 4.13 display is stone dead when I pair it with Björns old CPU board.
+<dwihno>        It's stone'd ;)
+<adi|home>      btw... zagor stated 'the firmware should never exit'
+<adi|home>      so we #defined the uisim to use the off button...
+<adi|home>      but on the player and the recorder.. does the firmware trap the off button or what?
+<adi|home>      i mean how else do you turn the unit off?
+*       Bagder has no clue
+*       adi|home draws a target on Bagder's forehead then poke's him in the bullseye
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<adi|home>      speak of the devil...
+<Linus> I think the hardware traps the off button
+<adi|home>      hey.. zag
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Zagor> eeeello
+<adi|home>      <adi|home> btw... zagor stated 'the firmware should never exit'
+<adi|home>      <adi|home> so we #defined the uisim to use the off button...
+<adi|home>      <adi|home> but on the player and the recorder.. does the firmware trap the off button or what?
+<adi|home>      <adi|home> i mean how else do you turn the unit off?
+<Linus> eieio
+<adi|home>      like 20 secs ago
+<adi|home>      and sometimes y
+<Zagor> ah
+<dwihno>        YAY!
+<Zagor> well we don't know for sure
+<dwihno>        My Archos is in Umeå now!
+<Zagor> the recorder seems to simply go into powersave mode and not actually turn off 100%
+<dwihno>        I'm gonna get it today! :D
+<dwihno>        Oh joy!
+<adi|home>      really? thats just weird
+<adi|home>      and the player?
+*       dwihno starts bouncing around like a a playfull puppu
+<dwihno>        puppy ;)
+<Zagor> i don't know. we need to do some measurements
+<Linus> I don't think it's weird that it goes into powersave mode
+*       adi|home puts newspaper under dwihno
+<Linus> That way it can keep the settings in RAM
+<adi|home>      no.. what i mean is.. sholdn't both units?
+<adi|home>      i mean, why wouldn't the player as well?
+<Linus> i dunno
+<Linus> Maybe they designed it in a hurry
+<adi|home>      keep those answers up.. and im giving you a target too...
+<adi|home>      ;)
+<Linus> maybe the LCD display has no powersave mode
+<Linus> who knows?
+*       adi|home nods
+<adi|home>      okay.. im off to bed then.. long day tomorrow.
+<Zagor> night!
+<dwihno>        sweet dreams
+<Linus> COFFEEEEEE!
+<dwihno>        I'm way ahead of you Linus! :) Got my 4th cup!
+<adi|home>      and also.. its E.M.S. appreciation week here in the States.. so appreciate me damn it!
+*       adi|home giggles like a school girl
+<Bagder>        EMS?
+<adi|home>      Emergency Medical Services
+<Bagder>        aha
+<adi|home>      ppl that work on ambulances
+<adi|home>      volunteers here mostly
+*       Bagder appreciates ambulance-adiamas for a while
+<adi|home>      hehehe
+*       adi|home puffs up his chest proudly
+<adi|home>      nite agin
+<Linus> Gah!
+<Linus> The "new" display works with the "new" CPU board
+<Linus> So we night have *three* display types on our hands!
+<Bagder>        hmrpmf
+<Zagor> or at least combining old new cpu with old display wasn't as simple as we thought
+<Linus> Or it might be that it has nothing to do with the LCD at all.
+<Linus> Just incompatible boards
+<Linus> But how????
+<Linus> I wonder what's different...
+<Zagor> don't worry about that too much, it's not like anyone else is going to attempt it...
+<Linus> True. I'm just curious
+<Bagder>        you should still write down or post your findings, so that we have them saved for the future
+<Linus> And we still need to debug a New(tm) Player to find out what's different with the ATA interface
+<Zagor> yes
+-->     wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> Yo wav!
+<wavey> howdy linus
+*       Bagder crawls off to get coffee
+<--     Bagder has quit ("disconnecting from stoned server.")
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<dwihno>        1x2
+<dwihno>        I want my archos NOW!!! :)
+<dwihno>        What are you people going to eat for lunch today?
+<Bagder>        I think I'm up for chinese today
+<dwihno>        yum
+<dwihno>        noodles is always nice
+<dwihno>        NASIGORENG!
+<Zagor> today is sushi day
+<Zagor> btw, guys, I managed to exchange a few words with Tumm yesterday. he exists! ;)
+*       Bagder faints
+<dwihno>        Eww! Sushi! That's like, dead fish!
+<Linus> Well. It's almost alive!
+<dwihno>        Fried fish = yum yum
+<Zagor> barely dead :)
+<Linus> Wonderful!
+<Linus> Delicious!
+<Bagder>        I wish we had a sushi place around here
+<dwihno>        I wish I never have to see the evilness of the sushi
+*       dwihno sends some abborre-sushi to Zagor 
+---     Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|lunch
+---     Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor
+---     Linus|lunch is now known as Linus
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: you here?
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<Zagor> have you opened your archos?
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      no i haven't
+<Zagor> ok. we're having a theory that perhaps your harddisk is jumpered as "slave"
+<PsycoXul>      fun
+<Zagor> it's not so bad, we just have to deal with it in ata_init() if that's the case. but it's a bit tricky to find out without opening your archos... :)
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      well i need to back it up [actualy mostly reorganize my HD copies to match the structure on the archos just so i can see that it really is backed up], and take it to best buy to get it serviced so they can remove the sticker and i don't have to worry about it
+<PsycoXul>      i wasn't planning on opening it till after that
+<Zagor> well maybe you don't have to. we could try just patching your code a bit and see what happens
+<Zagor> stand by :)
+<PsycoXul>      the power plugin does need to be resoldered or something i think, if i bump it while its plugged in it'll lose the contact
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<PsycoXul>      but i can't test anything till tomorrow... gotta juggle HD's in a win98 box next to me to boot it to linux with my sh1 dev stuff and its too late tonight to be getting into that... 
+<Zagor_>        :-(
+<PsycoXul>      and i'm hopping in the shower now heh
+<Zagor_>        when you get the chance, try changing SELECT_LBA to 0x50 in ata.c
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<--     Zagor has quit (card.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<PsycoXul>      well i'll go take a shower and if its not too late after that then maybe i can
+<Bagder>        PsycoXul: where are you, geograpicly?
+<Zagor> pacbell.net hints US
+<dwihno>        I GOT MY ARCHOS IN MY HAND!
+<Bagder>        try the demos! ;-)
+<dwihno>        hm
+<dwihno>        how do I connect it? ;)
+<Bagder>        to what?
+<dwihno>        To the PC
+<dwihno>        It just says charging
+<dwihno>        no "hello USB" thingy
+<Zagor> yay, that was fast
+<Linus> dwihno: turn it on
+<dwihno>        Trying
+<dwihno>        It just says "charging batteries"
+<Linus> Hold ON down for a few secs
+<Zagor> dwihno: go to groups.yahoo.com and join the archosjukebox6000 group. then read the faq there, it will answer your 20 first questions :-)
+<dwihno>        Help me out, I don't wanna search no mail list! :(
+<Linus> How long did you press ON?
+<Zagor> keep it down 5-10 seconds
+<dwihno>        öjj, nu hände det grejer
+<dwihno>        Windows won't say hello USB
+<Zagor> you need to install the driver from the cd
+<Zagor> uh, maybe not
+<Zagor> i was thinking about the old archos :)
+<Zagor> which windows do you have?
+*       Bagder has glass windows ;-)
+<Linus> You do have to install a driver if you have Win98
+<Zagor> yeah, I guess we can't expect MSWindows to follow specifications... ;*)
+<Bagder>        ah they do, just not the SAME specifications ;-)
+<dwihno>        <-- is ejaculating
+<dwihno>        <-- is ejaculating
+<dwihno>        <-- is ejaculating
+<dwihno>        <-- is ejaculating
+<dwihno>        <-- is ejaculating
+<dwihno>        <-- is ejaculating
+<dwihno>        DAMN
+*       Zagor puts dwihno in a cool shower
+---     ChanServ gives channel operator status to Bagder
+<dwihno>        :)~
+<dwihno>        Worth every wooden nickle
+<Linus> Didn't we tell you? :-)
+<Bagder>        now, rip it up and make that serial port work for debugging B-P
+<Zagor> haha
+<Linus> hihi
+<Linus> Bagder: why don't you??? :-)
+<Bagder>        well, no recorder has so far
+<Bagder>        not even you guys
+<Bagder>        right?
+<dwihno>        hahahaha
+<dwihno>        damn
+<dwihno>        whoa
+<Zagor> right
+<dwihno>        <-- gets a glass of water...
+<dwihno>        I'll be damned! DAMN DAMN DAMN! :)
+<Linus> Don't spill it!!!
+<Bagder>        get over your head ;-)
+<Bagder>        poor it even
+<Zagor> pour
+*       Zagor is the spelling police, too
+<Bagder>        hey, I can't type
+<Bagder>        so then I shall not speel correct either ;-)
+<dwihno>        haha
+<dwihno>        :)
+<dwihno>        Win2k said: "Hello USB" and installed it as a mass storage device without any extra drivers
+<Zagor> good
+<Zagor> where are our win32 developers? it's been awfully quiet lately
+<PsycoXul>      back
+<dwihno>        Whoa
+<dwihno>        whoa whoa whoa
+<PsycoXul>      yeah i'm in the US, california
+<dwihno>        Oh my god
+<Bagder>        Zagor: indeed, the win32 simulator is now lagging behind
+<PsycoXul>      bah
+<PsycoXul>      win32 people aren't *real* developers anyways :p
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Zagor> adiamas spilled the beans in the yahoo forum a couple of days ago and now everyone is very interested. a win32 simulator would be good soon
+<Bagder>        hey!
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<Bagder>        we're now 101 subscribers
+<Bagder>        on the rockbox list
+<Zagor> and <1 msg/day :-)
+<Bagder>        yeah
+<dwihno>        *copy files*
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: can you test now?
+<dwihno>        The speed is quite alright for being a USB 1.1 computer I'm using
+<Bagder>        dwihno: hehe that'll keep you busy for a while
+<Linus> dwihno: do you have USB2.0 on your computer?
+<Linus> ah
+<dwihno>        Getting files from work -> home will never be a problem again ;)
+<Bagder>        sure it will, you won't have room for with all those mp3s on it ;-)
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<dwihno>        hehe
+<PsycoXul>      Zagor: just booted over
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: meaning?
+<PsycoXul>      you know i think most of the problems i have with this thing over USB is due to trying it when the batteries low
+<Zagor> yeah that's a bad idea
+<PsycoXul>      Zagor: meaning i'm copying the test file now
+<Zagor> ok
+<PsycoXul>      well
+<PsycoXul>      usualy when i plug it in the batteries like half way
+<PsycoXul>      to USB i mean
+<PsycoXul>      and then i copy files and after several times in one session it starts having problems
+<PsycoXul>      using it as a USB HD seems to eat the batteries really quick
+<PsycoXul>      hmmm
+<Zagor> yeah, always keep the power cable connected in usb mode
+<PsycoXul>      like now the batteries shouldn't be very low but it may have stalled on the copy already
+<dwihno>        For how many hours do the batteries last?
+<dwihno>        10 hours?
+<Zagor> roughly, yes
+<dwihno>        mkay
+<PsycoXul>      i estimate 5-10 hours depending bitrate, settings, volume, how much you mess with it
+<dwihno>        mess?
+<PsycoXul>      if you press buttons a lot
+<dwihno>        you mean, use it as a USB harddrive?
+<PsycoXul>      have the backlight on much
+<PsycoXul>      etc
+<PsycoXul>      dwihno: yeah
+<PsycoXul>      er
+<PsycoXul>      no
+<dwihno>        amongst other things
+<PsycoXul>      dwihno: i mean if you set up a 10 hour playlist, start it, stick it in your pouch/pocket and then don't touch it till it goes dead
+<PsycoXul>      dwihno: it'll last a long longer than if you play some songs, then browse around and play some more, etc
+<dwihno>        mkay
+<dwihno>        Will the unit start to fux0r if I change the hard disk label?
+<PsycoXul>      nah
+<PsycoXul>      one of the first things i did :p
+<dwihno>        heh
+<dwihno>        insanity! is the label now
+<dwihno>        :)
+<dwihno>        20 gigs of music in your pocket is nothing but pure insanity
+<PsycoXul>      yep
+<PsycoXul>      its true
+<PsycoXul>      just wait
+<PsycoXul>      its like your life suddenly got a soundtrack :p
+<dwihno>        :)
+<dwihno>        Oh my fucking G.O.D!
+<Zagor> dwihno: 20 gigs? bah, 40 here. and there's 60 gig disks out now.
+<dwihno>        whoa
+<dwihno>        Zagor: suck my dick :)
+<Zagor> no thanks :)
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<dwihno>        I'll sync it against my collection at home tonight
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<PsycoXul>      Zagor: no change
+<Zagor> hmm
+<Linus> PsycoXul: you mean the ATA slave test?
+<Zagor> yes
+<Linus> bah!
+<Zagor> hmm, we must do a device select before we start polling status...
+<Linus> Dont we do that now?
+<Zagor> nopp
+<Linus> But the ATA interface must be initialized already?
+<Zagor> i'll try and adapt the master/slave check code I have in the isd200 driver...
+<Zagor> hmm, you're right
+<Zagor> still, it just doesn't work
+<dwihno>        Whoa
+<dwihno>        I wanna go hoooome! :)
+<dwihno>        Listen to music! :)
+<dwihno>        I love the audio quality
+<Zagor> have you been able to hear the buzz yet=
+<Zagor> ?
+<dwihno>        Didn't try
+<PsycoXul>      i get a buzz while my studio20's charging sometimes... it comes and goes and when it comes i can't get rid of it and when it goes i can't make it do it, but its from the unit itself and not the headphones heh
+<Zagor> oh
+<Zagor> are you using the stock charger?
+<PsycoXul>      yes
+<Zagor> it could be voltage related
+<PsycoXul>      its no big deal and i only get it sometimes
+<dwihno>        I'll try to get the buzz tonight
+<dwihno>        Damn
+<dwihno>        The bass is exquisite!
+<dwihno>        My EXP101 is WAY out!
+<Zagor> dwihno: you can probably "force" the buzz by only inserting the headphone plug half-way
+<Zagor> still, if you can't hear it why look for it :)
+<dwihno>        hehe
+<dwihno>        true, true
+<dwihno>        You will not find the force, the force will find you!
+<dwihno>        Reverse that sentence and imagine Yoda saying it ;)
+<PsycoXul>      find the force you will not, find you it will
+<dwihno>        :)
+<dwihno>        :-)
+*       dwihno sighs
+<PsycoXul>      but yeah
+<PsycoXul>      anything else i should try today?
+<dwihno>        How long time does it take to charge it?
+<Zagor> dwihno: a long time. leave it overnight at least
+<Zagor> it handles it intelligently, so there's no problem leaving it too long
+<dwihno>        Ah, sure
+<PsycoXul>      yeah but don't leave it too too long especialy if you use the stock adapter
+<dwihno>        How come?
+<PsycoXul>      cause its an unregulated piece of shit adapter that i guess provides more power than the unit needs to start with, and especialy once its charged, that extra power gets put out as heat
+<PsycoXul>      some people have damaged their units with that
+<PsycoXul>      mine's gotten hotten than i'm comfortable with a couple times
+<PsycoXul>      hotter
+<dwihno>        ah
+<dwihno>        does it tell when the charging is finished?
+<Zagor> yes
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<dwihno>        and how many hours does a typical charge take?
+<dwihno>        the green led goes blank when it's fully charged?
+<Zagor> no the display says "Charging complete"
+<Zagor> the green led is hardwired to power-on
+<PsycoXul>      i dunno about recorders, but my player says "charged" instead of "charging..." and you can also hear the HD spin up
+<Zagor> the recorder does not spin the hd
+<PsycoXul>      huh
+<Zagor> the "charging complete, let's dissipate excess power via spinning hd" seems to be a new-players-only thing
+<dwihno>        mkay
+<dwihno>        Should I upgrade to the newsest firmware?
+<Zagor> which version do you have?
+<dwihno>        lemme check... where do I do that?
+<Zagor> menu->firmware
+<Bagder>        who cares about firmware versions, we need rockbox ;-)
+<dwihno>        hehe
+<dwihno>        rockbox is still just a dream
+<dwihno>        Rockbox - Because dreams will come true!
+<dwihno>        There's a slogan you can use ;)
+<PsycoXul>      you know it *seriously* seems like the players firmware was a hacked together bare minimal with a few things thrown in cause they were easy, and i *swear* they anticipated a project to replace it 
+<PsycoXul>      to me anyways :p
+<dwihno>        you might be right
+<Zagor> i doubt they anticipated anyone replacing it. then why would the scramble it? I agree on the "hacked together" part, though
+<dwihno>        ask the firmware developers
+<PsycoXul>      i couldn't tell you why they scramble it
+<PsycoXul>      it doesn't seem to actualy accomplish anything anyways :p
+<Zagor> it would appear they explicity wanted something like this to never happen...
+<dwihno>        1.26
+<dwihno>        mar 10 2002
+<dwihno>        that's the firmware
+<Zagor> dwihno: I think there's a 1.27 out. try it if you feel like it.
+<Zagor> I'm using 1.24. can't be bother with their mini changes
+*       Bagder has 1.25b
+<PsycoXul>      so you guys got anything else for me to test today or can i throw the normal firmware on there and call it a day? heh
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: we're done for now, I think. i'll test some stuff on my end first.
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<Bagder>        there's a 1.27c available
+<dwihno>        Where do you find the firmware?
+<dwihno>        I'm trying to find, but can't!
+<Bagder>        http://www.archos.com/us/download_drivers.html
+<dwihno>        ah
+<dwihno>        thanks
+<Bagder>        "archos recorder firmware" on google showed that as first choice
+<Bagder>        the rockbox link was only on third place ;-)
+<dwihno>        Yeah! :D
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<PsycoXul>      i descrambled/hexedited/rescrambled the archos firmware and changed 'CHARGE' to 'FUX0RZ' and 'CHARGING' to 'FUX0RING' etc
+<Zagor> haha
+<PsycoXul>      and put it on, booted it, shut it off, plugged it in just to see
+<PsycoXul>      and it still says CHARGE, CHARGING
+<dwihno>        :)
+<dwihno>        hm
+<PsycoXul>      so apparently firmware upgrades don't effect its charging stuff
+<dwihno>        stupid :/
+<Zagor> ah, no. not unless you first start the firmware then plug in the charger
+<PsycoXul>      which makes sense to me since it doesn't boot up from the HD to charge
+<dwihno>        In what way is the firmware scrambled? :) XOR?
+<Zagor> no it's a bit more than that
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Zagor> they used the old "swap bus pins" trick, only in software instead of hardware
+<dwihno>        (?)
+<dwihno>        swap bus pins?
+<PsycoXul>      ok so i turned it on and plugged it in and then turned it off and it still says CHARGE heh
+<PsycoXul>      they seem to have a lot of unused stuff in their firmware upgrades
+<Zagor> don't turn it off
+<Zagor> when you turn it off it reverts to rom
+<PsycoXul>      well when its on it just displays the normal interface and the battery indicator just moves
+<Zagor> dwihno: yeah, if you swap the bus pins to the ROM, the contents of the ROM becomes scrambled without you actually having to unscramble it
+<dwihno>        Femton pirater å en flaska mä rooooom! :D
+<PsycoXul>      so i'll never see those messages heh
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: ah, silly me
+<dwihno>        Zagor: mkay
+<dwihno>        Zagor: in quiet parts of the songs, I hear a faint buzz noise...
+<dwihno>        I can live with it though
+<PsycoXul>      i was mainly just wondering how "fixed battery charged issue" ended up on the feature list of a firmware upgrade... so now we know just cause they say they added it doesn't necessarily mean it'll have any effect for an upgrade :p
+<Zagor> i guess you're right
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: umm, feel like testing some more? ;)
+*       Zagor ducks
+<dwihno>        What's with that digital serial thing? Are they trying to disable something?
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Zagor> dwihno: what do you mean?
+<PsycoXul>      sure, except i just booted that box back to win98 so i can't compile anything for it heh
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: if i select slave, I get the same 00 status response as you get
+<Zagor> so we should probably we checking master/slave the first thing we do
+<dwihno>        Zagor: Well, I read something about some serial thing and DMCA... And the link said something about making digital copies... I thought they might be trying to disable digital copying...
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<PsycoXul>      hey its kindof funny
+<PsycoXul>      i've got this song called 'descramble' 
+<PsycoXul>      its the DeCSS source code, sang
+<Zagor> dwihno: ah, yes. like everyone selling stuff in the US they must obey silly rules. but there are ways around the SCMS. (it's in the FAQ ;)
+<Zagor> dwihno: but it's only over the SPDIF interface anyway. and nobody uses that
+<PsycoXul>      with the chorus "the dmca steps me... i don't like the dmca, it makes this song illegal" 
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: lol
+<dwihno>        :)
+<PsycoXul>      er "steps on me"
+<PsycoXul>      its bad recording, bad quality, bad performance but its kinda catchy :p
+<Zagor> i like the lyrics...
+*       Bagder thinks songs by "decoded feedback" kind of fits on mp3
+<PsycoXul>      how can you not love a song that starts off with
+<PsycoXul>      "this function is void.. it takes to args"
+<dwihno>        Zagor: Nothing about SCMS in the FAQ :/
+<PsycoXul>      :p
+<Bagder>        hehehe
+<PsycoXul>      s/to/two/
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<PsycoXul>      DMCA steps on me... i don't like the dmca it makes this song illegal, oooh... dmca, it steps on me and makes this song illegal, makes this song illegal
+<dwihno>        PsycoXul: You need coffee.
+<PsycoXul>      eye dew gnot.
+*       dwihno hands PsycoXul a steaming hot cup dé coffee
+*       PsycoXul hands it back, thanks anyways heh
+<PsycoXul>      coffee's nasty stuff man :p
+<PsycoXul>      and it pisses me off that innocent pot smokers are going to jail while everyone from gradeschoolers to their parents are hooked on caffiene :p
+<dwihno>        hehe
+<Linus> Gotta go. Bye folks!
+<dwihno>        You haven't made a 'scroll faster' patch yet? :)
+<Bagder>        bye Linus
+<PsycoXul>      nobody's doing patches :p
+<PsycoXul>      besides maybe archos heh
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<dwihno>        hehe
+<dwihno>        I'll do my own patch ;D
+<PsycoXul>      sure
+<PsycoXul>      while you're at it, whip up some DSP code for PCM and ogg support
+<PsycoXul>      so i saw this new portable thing out 
+<PsycoXul>      with 10G
+<PsycoXul>      can play mp3/wav but thats only a feature
+<PsycoXul>      works as usb master and slave, has ethernet and pc card
+<Zagor> so what "thing" is it?
+<Bagder>        gotta run, see ya
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<Zagor> bye
+<Zagor> gah, too late :)
+<PsycoXul>      http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/gadgets/57a3.shtml
+<PsycoXul>      that thing
+<dwihno>        it's rather sexy
+<dwihno>        but it's not an archos
+<dwihno>        archos is godsent!
+<Zagor> ah, a harddisk with a display. how cute :)
+<dwihno>        rockbox is the archangel, sent to thame the archos!
+<PsycoXul>      its size is kindof odd
+<PsycoXul>      7"x3.2"x1"
+<Zagor> the price is, ehm, high
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs04m-8-122.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> hey, alan!
+<alkorr>        hello people
+<PsycoXul>      its LCD sounds like its charcell too... says 20 chars x 4 lines
+<alkorr>        you are fast :)
+<Zagor> like lightning :)
+<alkorr>        speaking about your project :)
+<PsycoXul>      but its got some interesting features
+<PsycoXul>      such as ability to use alkaline, ni-mh, or a li-ion battery pack
+<alkorr>        Psyco, what are you speaking about ?
+<PsycoXul>      can act as a usb master, has 10mb ethernet, pcmcia, and composite video out for viewing still images
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      alkorr: http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/gadgets/57a3.shtml
+<PsycoXul>      terapin mine
+<PsycoXul>      its rather long at 7" though, "20 char x 4 line" lcd doesn't sound impressive, nor does 6 buttons, and costing so much for only 10G 
+<alkorr>        looks very interesting if it was not its price
+<Zagor> ga-zing-ga. file browser running on my 6k.
+<PsycoXul>      what'd be more interesting is if they sold them cheap without HD's
+<Zagor> yeah, it's kind of a mix between an archos and a handheld. not being especially good for either
+<PsycoXul>      but being that its geared towards being a data storage device, they probably wouldn't do that heh
+<alkorr>        well I prefer a graphical lcd
+<Zagor> unghh... sourceforge's CVS server seems to have bonked
+<alkorr>        ???
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<alkorr>        bonked ? what does mean ?
+<Zagor> it doesn't respond right now
+<Zagor> bonked = died, sort of
+<alkorr>        ok
+<Zagor> apparently it didn't like my latest patch :)
+<PsycoXul>      i feel like i got shortchanged on this little 11x2 charcell thing, i've seen $10 games at walmart with better displays heh
+<Zagor> hehe
+<alkorr>        arf
+<Zagor> ah, it's up again
+<PsycoXul>      but at least it does display stuff
+<PsycoXul>      there's so many players on the market that don't even have standard mp3 player features
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: is yours a studio 10 or 20?
+<PsycoXul>      studio20
+<PsycoXul>      http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/gadgets/5a1a.shtml
+<Zagor> ok
+<Zagor> hey, it can almost fit the rockbox logo! ;)
+<PsycoXul>      hey thats kinda interesting... if you hooked an IR port into the serial port on your archos with custom firmware and then used that
+<PsycoXul>      get a joystick and mini keyboard and extra display 
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Zagor> yep. there's lots of cool stuff to be done on the archos
+<alkorr>        hum... interesting...
+<dwihno>        :)
+*       dwihno takes everybody down to earth again
+<dwihno>        :)
+<alkorr>        you dreamreaper :)
+<Zagor> who'll be first with a keyboard->archos adapter? :)
+---     dwihno is now known as DreamReaper
+<DreamReaper>   Mohahaha!
+<DreamReaper>   The Archos will NEVER be more than a music box! :D
+<DreamReaper>   *evil laughter*
+---     DreamReaper is now known as dwihno
+<Zagor> you forgot tetris :)
+<alkorr>        a PC keyboard should not be a problem
+<dwihno>        haha
+<dwihno>        Tetris is a toy for kids :)
+<PsycoXul>      Zagor: i keep thinking of a bi-directional IR via serial port
+<alkorr>        if your archos has the external serial line
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: yeah, unfortunately bidir requires hw mod
+<PsycoXul>      yeah i know
+<PsycoXul>      i do plan on making hw mods eventualy
+<dwihno>        hm
+<dwihno>        bettery charged
+<dwihno>        So it's full now, eh?
+<alkorr>        please, consider my idea
+<PsycoXul>      which idea is that
+<alkorr>        there is the Linus' serial tool that we can connect between an archos and PC
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<alkorr>        if we have a PS/2<->serial adaptor
+<alkorr>        it should be virtually possible to connect a PC keyboard
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<alkorr>        no ?
+<alkorr>        a PC keyboard sends 1200 baud, no parity, 8 bit, 1 start, 1 stop 
+<alkorr>        am i wrong ?
+<--     Zagor has quit (card.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<alkorr>        so jukebox should be able to receive scancodes and handles it 
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<PsycoXul>      i've got 3 ps/2-serial adapters, but all 3 are made to plug into a serial port
+<PsycoXul>      and linus' serial adapter i'm guessing is also made to plug into a serial port 
+<alkorr>        jukebox has no PC serial plug
+<Zagor> ah, hi again :)
+<alkorr>        you need to have an intermediate
+<PsycoXul>      i know
+<PsycoXul>      thats what linus' adapter does right?
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<dwihno>        <-- is off - no more "work" today ;D
+---     dwihno is now known as dw|off
+<alkorr>        yeah
+<alkorr>        ah okay youre speaking about adapter
+<PsycoXul>      yeah the rs232 converter
+<Zagor> then you just need the serial->archos adapter from the web page
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: yup
+<PsycoXul>      which kind of rs232 port does that have? the kind like is on the computer on the kind like plugs into the computer? heh
+<Zagor> it's db9 -> 3.5mm plug
+<PsycoXul>      i seem to recall somebody at some point saying they'd put pictures up of the thing
+<Zagor> dumdidum, that was never me was it? :*)
+<PsycoXul>      Zagor: yes but i mean does it plug into the host port or do you plug a serial cable between the host port and the converter port or what?
+<PsycoXul>      Zagor: can you plug a serial device into it
+<PsycoXul>      or is it itself a serial device to be plugged in
+<Zagor> it plugs into the PC and into the archos
+<PsycoXul>      i mean on the pc side
+<PsycoXul>      does it have the 9 pins or the 9 holes? heh
+<alkorr>        a stand serial wire
+<alkorr>        standard
+<alkorr>        wire between PC and adapter is female
+<alkorr>        unless Linus inverted it
+<PsycoXul>      so the rs232 converter's PC-style port is just like what you have on the back of your PC? heh
+<alkorr>        well if not the good one, just buy a male-female adapter :)
+<PsycoXul>      thats all i was wondering heh
+<alkorr>        on the pc, it is a male
+<alkorr>        my adapter has also a male adapter
+<alkorr>        huh it is like PC one
+<PsycoXul>      so if you had a serial keyboard you could plug it right into the rs232 converter?
+<alkorr>        let me find another keyboard here...
+<PsycoXul>      i've got 3 ps2->serial adapters heh
+<alkorr>        you should because i bought a 1 ps2->serial too
+<alkorr>        and it fits with my serial adapter for jukebox
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<PsycoXul>      so it should be easy to hook a lot of stuff up to this sucker
+*       PsycoXul pictures a little 1-pixel mouse cursor drawn in a dynamically-updated custom char on his player :p
+<PsycoXul>      ok so for this thing
+<PsycoXul>      i see on national.com the LP2980IM5
+<PsycoXul>      they have -2.5 through -5.0
+<PsycoXul>      (i.e. LP2980IM5-2.5, ..., LP2980IM5-5.0)
+<Zagor> i have to go. see you guys!
+<PsycoXul>      is that the output voltage or something?
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<PsycoXul>      do i want the -3.3 then?
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<--     alkorr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<--     wavey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+---     Disconnected (Connection timed out).
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed May 22 17:13:21 2002
+
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+
+-->     adiamas (~adiamas@as5300-9.216-194-23-162.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     Topic for #rockbox is Does your box rock? http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+---     Topic for #rockbox set by Bagder at Mon May 13 04:46:28
+---     You are now known as adi|home
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<elinenbe>      anyone here?
+<--     elinenbe has quit (Client Quit)
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     dw|off is now known as dwihno
+<Bagder>        morning
+<dwihno>        Good morning :)
+<dwihno>        <-- has filled the archos with music now
+<dwihno>        2 gigs to go ;D
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<dwihno>        I'm surprised by the good audio quality
+<Bagder>        yes, it is pretty good
+<dwihno>        My Philips EXP101 is nothing compared to this! :)
+<dwihno>        Something I just can't understand is, when I uploaded the new firmware, the boot screen still says 1.26
+<Bagder>        what's a EXP101?
+<Bagder>        the boot screen first display the ROMed version, then it should change after a few seconds
+<Bagder>        to show the one loaded from disk
+<dwihno>        Philips Expanium, portable CD MP3 thingy
+<dwihno>        hm
+<Bagder>        aha
+<dwihno>        No way to make the firmware permanent in the ROM? :)
+<Bagder>        you wish ;-)
+<dwihno>        Still not fully recharged. Strange. I left it overnight, just to copy all my music, and it still isn't full
+<dwihno>        This is my fourth MP3 player btw
+<dwihno>        Or is it fifth
+<dwihno>        Hmm
+<Bagder>        gosh
+<Bagder>        its my first ;-)
+<dwihno>        First I had a RIO 300 with 32+32 megs
+<dwihno>        Then I bought a NAPA DAV 309
+<dwihno>        Which sucked donkey balls
+<dwihno>        Then I got the EXP101
+<dwihno>        Then I bought the EXP201 model
+<dwihno>        (which was a pity, since the sound quality sucked)
+<dwihno>        And now I have the archos, and I'm all happy ;)
+<Bagder>        you sure have shopped around 
+<dwihno>        Well, I love gadgets, what can I say :)
+<dwihno>        My computer: a PII 266, 256 meg RAM, 30+60 gig HD, and a 8 meg ATI gfx board :)
+<dwihno>        My TV: probably 14"
+<dwihno>        and yeah, my monitor is 15" ;)
+<Bagder>        heh
+<Bagder>        I have a 21" 
+<dwihno>        whoa
+<dwihno>        Everything more than 17" is overkill :)
+<dwihno>        Unless you use Illustrator, flash, or any other software with 1249 palettes
+<Bagder>        you don't think that when you sit in front of this ;-)
+<Bagder>        1600x1200
+<Bagder>        lots of xterms
+<Bagder>        lots of emacs
+<Bagder>        its heaven for a programmer
+<dwihno>        xxx-emacs :)
+<dwihno>        vim = sexy
+<Bagder>        ... and it shows divx movies pretty good
+<dwihno>        But as always, everybody shall use what's comfortable for themselves :)
+<dwihno>        what software do you use? mplayer?
+<Bagder>        xine
+<dwihno>        hm
+<dwihno>        isn't mplayer better, faster and more stable?
+<Bagder>        not the one I tried
+<Bagder>        I got xine to work really fine and then I didn't try around much more
+<PsycoXul>      i always end up having both xine and mplayer
+<Bagder>        one day I'll try mplayer again
+<PsycoXul>      they each have their strong points and oddities
+<dwihno>        mplayer = great for pr0n <-- I can vouche for that :)
+<Bagder>        dwihno: aren't you trapped in the windows bubble?
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<dwihno>        Well, in one way, yes
+<dwihno>        I need flash, illustrator, indesign, photoshop, distiller and more :/
+<Bagder>        poor you ;-)
+<dwihno>        But I'm seriousley considering a "linux on fat32"-partition insta ll
+<Bagder>        you should simply make a separate partition and install linux on it
+<dwihno>        Yeah... That's also a good idea
+<dwihno>        The disk is perkele-slow anyways
+<Bagder>        yeps
+<dwihno>        What dist do you recommend?
+<dwihno>        I've stuck to different BSD's the last two years
+<dwihno>        And I've grown accustomed to nice packages ready available on CD-ROM
+<Bagder>        either go redhat for convenienct, or do debian for "coolness" ;-)
+<Bagder>        then use redhat
+<dwihno>        I might do that
+<dwihno>        But first, I have to blow my nose - feels like there's a gnome inside!
+<dwihno>        Damn allergy
+<dwihno>        Time for morgonfika. Yeah. Mmm.
+*       adi|home slaps dwihno for forcing himself into photoshop instead of gimp
+*       adi|home waves his hand at dwihno and says "You like gimp more then photoshop..."
+*       adi|home watches dwihno say in a zombie like tone "I like gimp more then photoshop..."
+<dwihno>        :/
+<dwihno>        I like GIMP
+<dwihno>        I really do
+<dwihno>        But when I work with photoshop, I work much faster
+<dwihno>        Using GIMP to re-save the PNG's for tighter compression is cool tho ;)
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Bagder>        morning
+<Zagor> morning
+<dwihno>        GOod morning, dr. Zagor
+<Zagor> good morning, grasshopper :)
+<dwihno>        <-- is doing ASP :) yay!
+<Zagor> heretic
+<dwihno>        Which makes your embedded stuff look like gingerbread
+<dwihno>        Mmmmmmmmmm. Gingerbread.
+*       Zagor pokes PsycoXul. Awake?
+<dwihno>        ASP syntax is _SO_ gay
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<PsycoXul>      yeah, hi
+<Bagder>        asp? yuck
+<dwihno>        Yeah, when a dialect of a language makes difference between how you write the code (linewise), it's gay
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: have you tested the new ata code?
+<PsycoXul>      not yet
+<dwihno>        Zagor: Do you think you solved the ata_init stuff?
+<Zagor> maybe
+*       dwihno crosses his fingers
+<Bagder>        so maybe its time to build a recorder app and try too
+<Zagor> yeah, why not. although we don't know if much of anything works on the recorder yet :)
+<Bagder>        I know, but the ata stuff should work the same, right?
+<Zagor> well, hopefully...
+<dwihno>        <-- listens to some evil shiznat alphaville on his evils0r archos
+<Zagor> Front Line Assembly here
+<Bagder>        Re-Work
+<dwihno>        My friend who bought a flash based player got green with jealousy when my package arrived yesterday :)
+<Bagder>        hahaha
+<dwihno>        Win2k doesn't need any drivers to interface with the unit
+<Bagder>        well, he can bungy jump with his ;-)
+<dwihno>        heh
+<dwihno>        yeah :)
+<Bagder>        veeeeery useful
+<dwihno>        yup :)
+<dwihno>        20 gigs of portable music is perverted
+<adi|home>      music? music? its supposed to be for music?
+<adi|home>      oh sbhit...
+*       adi|home deletes his 19.4 gigs of porn
+<dwihno>        NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
+*       dwihno sos
+<dwihno>        sobs
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<dwihno>        I'm your faaaather!
+<dwihno>        Speaking of perverted stuff, how kinky isn't object oriented basic? :)
+<Bagder>        I wouldn't know ;-)
+<PsycoXul>      ok so like
+<PsycoXul>      it shows the disk label as the first file
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      and browsing through it is severely broken as far as cursor possition
+<PsycoXul>      and the display is kindof funky
+<PsycoXul>      but
+<PsycoXul>      it works, i can see my files!
+<Bagder>        *cool*
+<dwihno>        It makes handcuffs, liquid latex and sheep look boring ;)
+<dwihno>        YAY!
+<PsycoXul>      yeah i can't actualy browse them though
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: coooolers! that means you have a slave disk :)
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> Mooo!
+<Zagor> no the browser is kinda broken. the button handling sucks and the display is corrupted :)
+<PsycoXul>      i made it into one directory and saw the first two files there and then pressed over and it went to some other dirs in the directory the directory i'm in is in
+<Bagder>        hey Linus
+<dwihno>        Hellö Lajnus!
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Bagder>        Linus: PsycoXul can see his disk now
+<Linus> Of course he can. It's in the Archos. :-)
+<PsycoXul>      but yeah
+<Linus> What was the prob?
+<PsycoXul>      the ata code works for me now and thats cool
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Zagor> Linus: his disk is strapped as slave
+<Linus> Just as we suspected.
+<Linus> Nice!
+<PsycoXul>      good job hehe
+<Zagor> this requires some coffee!
+<dwihno>        :D
+<dwihno>        Celebration!
+*       Linus follows Zagor
+*       dwihno follows Linus
+<PsycoXul>      so yeah
+<PsycoXul>      make it browse right and play files and i'll start using it heh
+<dwihno>        What model do you have?
+<PsycoXul>      studio20
+<PsycoXul>      its just a lowely player
+<dwihno>        ah, okay
+<Bagder>        but that's with a "new" LCD isn't it?
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<PsycoXul>      well the new lcd and the old lcd aren't that much different, mainly their charset as far as i can tell
+<PsycoXul>      btw i noticed
+<Bagder>        yes it seems so
+<dwihno>        Hey, my batteries are finally charged ;D
+<dwihno>        Should I unplug while listening @ work?
+<PsycoXul>      the firmware/Makefile has the player defined for the target by default, while the apps/Makefile has the Old player defined as the target by default
+<dwihno>        Just to prevent the batteries from overloading?
+<Bagder>        we should make something about the different-targets situation in the makefiles
+<dwihno>        An opinion: there should be no defaults - if you don't select what you want to build, you should get a selection, just to prevent confusion
+<dwihno>        selection list
+<Bagder>        no selection
+<Bagder>        that's not for makefiles
+<dwihno>        make firmware-player
+<PsycoXul>      force people to 'make player_new' 'make player_old' or whatever and then 'make' just shows a list? heh
+<dwihno>        make firmware-studio
+<dwihno>        etc.
+<Bagder>        possibly
+<dwihno>        <-- is perverted, so, sue me ;)
+<Bagder>        I think I'll prefer having them all built with 'make'
+<dwihno>        that might cause confusion :)
+<Bagder>        why?
+<PsycoXul>      i agree its probably better at this point
+<PsycoXul>      but for a release i dunno
+<Bagder>        it makes it less probable that someone writes code that doesn't build on one target
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<PsycoXul>      actualy you know...
+<dwihno>        If you get several files when compiling some people _will_ upload wrong firmware to the unit
+<dwihno>        For development, it should build everything
+<PsycoXul>      people who are gonna get confused about editing a makefile
+<dwihno>        but for releases... :)
+<PsycoXul>      probably aren't gonna have an sh1 dev environment
+<Bagder>        right
+<Bagder>        people will download the binary
+<dwihno>        true, true
+<dwihno>        So, building everything by default then? :)
+<Zagor> the downside to building all versions is that we'll end up doing two "clean" for each "make"
+<dwihno>        <-- has had a second change of heart
+<Bagder>        Zagor: why?
+<PsycoXul>      i dunno
+<Bagder>        we can fix that
+<PsycoXul>      make a seperate target for each one
+<Zagor> because it's not just different object files, it's different command lines too
+<PsycoXul>      that knows what it needs to build itself for its target
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: yeah, but that doesn't exactly make things simpler...
+<PsycoXul>      why not?
+<Bagder>        I think it does
+<PsycoXul>      all: player_new player_old recorder
+<Zagor> because we break the source-file object-file correlation
+<Bagder>        right, we stash the object files in a separate dir depending on target
+<dwihno>        Whoa
+<Bagder>        or similar
+<Zagor> hmm
+<dwihno>        A VIM macro just gave me goosebumps ;D
+<Bagder>        like when you compile unix stuff from the same source for multiple platforms
+<Zagor> Bagder: how many trees support multiple simultaneous target builds?
+<Bagder>        whatever, the makefile editing is troublesome
+<Zagor> i don't think i've ever seen one
+<Bagder>        Zagor: sure they do, that's done by autoconf/automake magic
+<Zagor> yeah, you conf and build it once for each platform
+<Zagor> not several platforms at once
+<Bagder>        but with the same set of sources
+<Bagder>        still
+<Bagder>        we can't have this makefile editing
+<Zagor> i agree
+<Bagder>        it'll only cause grief
+<Zagor> we should have separate targets, but i don't think target 'all' should build all versions
+<PsycoXul>      the makefile editing isn't that bad except that you have multiple ones to keep synced
+<PsycoXul>      so what should all do?
+<Zagor> it could simply "echo Choose a target: player-old, player or recorder"
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<Zagor> i'm undecided. the firmware lib is part of the mix too
+<PsycoXul>      in that case probably be better with a little more descriptive list...
+<Bagder>        ... and then all: could bulild them all :-)
+<dwihno>        Microsoft VBScript compilation (0x800A0414)
+<dwihno>        Cannot use parentheses when calling a Sub
+<dwihno>        DAMN WHEELCHAIR CODING!
+<Zagor> Bagder: not without 1) cleans 2) elaborate special-dir targetting
+<dwihno>        Feels like I'm crippled and can't move my wheels!
+<Bagder>        Zagor: different object files needed, yes, that's not such a big deal
+<PsycoXul>      well how many of the source files need to be built specific to each target? all of them? most? some?
+<Linus> dwihno: try calling a function WITHOUT parantheses in C. Same thing.
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: all
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Bagder>        PsycoXul: many, not all, and not only a few ;-)
+<Zagor> the point is we don't know. all code can have target ifdefs
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+*       dwihno wants his paranthesises!
+<Bagder>        dwihno: dump the crap languages then :-)
+<Bagder>        there's another way of course
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<PsycoXul>      so why not have each target put its object files in its target-specific dir, and otherwise be the same as it is, but it just iterates through each?
+<dwihno>        call:ing the subs... I know
+<dwihno>        It still sucks
+<Bagder>        we have have a little script to "setup build env"
+<Zagor> what's so bad about "make player-old" ?
+<Bagder>        ... that builds a specific target and puts the object files in its directory
+<Linus> Hehe. Why not write an ARCHOS.MOD that examines the target and creates a Makefile on the hard disk? :-)
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Zagor> Linus: excellent idea ;)
+<Bagder>        ... then you just run that script in multiple places, one for each target you wanna build for
+<PsycoXul>      hey
+<PsycoXul>      why don't you port the whole dev environment to the target?
+<PsycoXul>      :p
+<Linus> Perfect!
+<PsycoXul>      then it can just examine itself 
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Bagder>        portable development! ;-)
+<Bagder>        thinking about it, I now think the script-approach is better
+<Bagder>        it makes it more configure-like
+<PsycoXul>      well what is a makefile? heh
+<Zagor> "./configure player-old debug" ?
+<Bagder>        like that, yes
+<Zagor> yeah, i think i like that
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<Bagder>        or possible interactive questions if you don't give any arguments
+<Zagor> it creates a target.make that Makefile includes
+<PsycoXul>      yeah and then './configure' alone just tells you about what arguments you need to give it?
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<Bagder>        Zagor: it can even generate a full Makefile
+<PsycoXul>      is that target.make included also by the apps?
+<PsycoXul>      so if you configure/build firmware for a target and then go right to the apps and build it does it for firmware's target automagically? heh
+<Zagor> Bagder: i think i'd prefer it just making a small file to be included. otherwise we'll have to edit the script rather than the Makefile
+<Bagder>        I want to be able to run this script outside the source tree
+<Bagder>        I could in fact volounteer to write a first attempt of a script like this
+<PsycoXul>      well
+<PsycoXul>      should there be a target code top level?
+<Bagder>        Zagor: no, the script would use a Makefile.in template kind of
+<PsycoXul>      like rockbox/apps rockbox/firmware etc?
+<Zagor> Bagder: good point. ok, it creates Makefile
+<PsycoXul>      so what makefile does it create?
+<PsycoXul>      a top level one? firmware/'s, apps/'s, both....
+<PsycoXul>      */'s? heh
+<Bagder>        I think it should create a toplevel one
+<Bagder>        that runs make for both firmware and apps
+<Bagder>        with the correct options
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<Bagder>        of course, as long as we settle for the idea, we can always change how the makefile is made later
+<PsycoXul>      so is this script hanging out in the root of the repository along with the firmware and apps dirs or are we getting a new dir for those to go into, or a new dir just for the configuring, or... heh
+<Bagder>        uh :-)
+<Zagor> the script can go into tools
+<Bagder>        hey, that's what the code pilce is here for ;-)
+<Bagder>        police
+<PsycoXul>      tools is probably a good place for it
+<PsycoXul>      but yeah i talk too much for a guy who just runs codes and says what doesn't work :p
+<Bagder>        tools? where's tools?
+<Zagor> it's a cvs module
+<PsycoXul>      you know where descramble, scramble, and sh2d are
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Bagder>        I didn't have that one checked-out
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      i just checkout .
+<PsycoXul>      since i can't just checkout rockbox
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Bagder>        if we just make the makefiles support OBJDIR, I have an embryo now
+<Bagder>        anyone with a good name for this setup-toplevel-build-makefile script?
+<dwihno>        configure? :)
+<Zagor> i think configure is good, actually. many people are used to it
+<Bagder>        ok
+<PsycoXul>      with player we can have a real cursor so i think it'd be better to use than than to waste a precious char on a -
+<Bagder>        indeed
+<Bagder>        try my configure now
+<Bagder>        its incomplete, but it works
+<Bagder>        if just the firmware and apps makefiles support putting the object files in OBJDIR
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      ok when i ran it from the top level as 
+<PsycoXul>      tools/configure
+<PsycoXul>      it couldn't find the firmware dir
+<Bagder>        oh
+<PsycoXul>      when i ran it ./configure from the tools dir it found them and then i get a bunch of command not found's on DEBUG, TARGET, FIRMDIR, CFLAGS, THISDIR, APPSDIR, CFLAGS, THISDIR
+<Bagder>        silly
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Bagder>        hm
+<Bagder>        a bash vs sh issue I guess
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<Bagder>        check the sed stuff at the bottom of the script
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<Zagor> does the simulator support queues? I'm adding a button queue now.
+<Bagder>        why would it need to? does it change the api?
+<Zagor> no, you're right.
+<PsycoXul>      you can give echo the -n option to suppress a newline too btw
+<PsycoXul>      though personaly i tend to use printf heh
+<Bagder>        I don't think that is portable enough
+<PsycoXul>      could be
+<PsycoXul>      a lot of things do use echo -n though
+<PsycoXul>      doesn't really matter
+<PsycoXul>      but i don't get why the sed line doesn't work
+<Bagder>        I'll re-arrange it
+<Bagder>        I checked how configure does it and I'll make something similar
+<--     Linus has quit ("disconnecting from stoned server.")
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<PsycoXul>      i see what it is
+<PsycoXul>      $(whatever) executes "whatever"
+<PsycoXul>      and for some reason its interpreting those within the block
+<PsycoXul>      it doesn't seem like it should but it does heh
+<--     Linus has quit (Client Quit)
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<PsycoXul>      and in the make lines, CFLAGS=$(CFLAGS) should be CFLAGS="$(CFLAGS)"
+<PsycoXul>      and it wouldn't hurt for $(THISDIR) either cause you never know about people
+<Bagder>        right
+<PsycoXul>      but just escaping the $'s within the block fixed it
+<PsycoXul>      the command not founds i mean
+<Bagder>        within the Makefile block?
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<Bagder>        ok
+<Bagder>        committed the fix
+<Bagder>        perhaps I should make it possible to build the simulator the same way
+<PsycoXul>      ok so that acts like it works and makes what appears to be a good makefile that runs what appears to be the right commandlines except none of the headers are found
+<Bagder>        oh
+<Bagder>        right
+<Bagder>        we ruin the CFLAGS
+<Bagder>        Zagor: you fine with the toplevel setting CPPFLAGS and then we use that for target/debug options in the firmware/apps makefiles?
+<PsycoXul>      what're you on that has a real bourne shell thats not just symlinked to bash? and why does bash invoked as /bin/sh act any differently at all from it? heh
+<Zagor> Bagder: sounds fine to me
+<Bagder>        PsycoXul: a solaris box
+<PsycoXul>      ah
+<Bagder>        it helps keeping this stuff portable
+<PsycoXul>      isn't CPPFLAGS for c++? heh
+<Bagder>        no, c preprocessor
+<PsycoXul>      ah
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<Bagder>        kind of standard actually
+<Linus> what are we preprocessing?
+<Bagder>        c files
+<Bagder>        #include and #define you know ;-)
+*       Bagder grins
+<Linus> But we don't preprocess them explicitly
+<Bagder>        no
+<Linus> So what is CPPFLAGS supposed to do?
+<Bagder>        flags that are meant for the CPP
+<Linus> like
+<Bagder>        usually, -I and -D
+<Bagder>        it is a very widespread de facto standard, set by autoconf et al
+<Linus> OK. So the default rule is $(CC) $(CFLAGS) $(CPPFLAGS)?
+<Bagder>        no
+<Bagder>        or perhaps yes
+<Bagder>        not entirely sure
+<Bagder>        that's not the point here anyway
+<Linus> I don't see the point if having separate flag vars
+<Bagder>        the point?
+<Bagder>        the toplevel makefile can't pass options using the CFLAGS variable
+<Linus> yes, the point
+<PsycoXul>      so that the top level makefile doesn't have to supply the proper CFLAGS to give the target define
+<Bagder>        since the firmware makefile uses it
+<PsycoXul>      it just can give the target define and let the other makefiles have their own CFLAGS
+<Linus> Now I follow you
+<Bagder>        I don't need to set either one
+<Bagder>        I can just set DEBUG and TARGET
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<Linus> or a general $(EXTRAS) variable
+<Linus> or something
+<Linus> was that the purpose of CPPFLAGS?
+<PsycoXul>      since CFLAGS already includes $(TARGET) should just set that
+<Bagder>        or just TOPLEVEL
+<PsycoXul>      unless theres more than the script needs to set than the target for those flags
+<Bagder>        Linus: EXTRAS or CPPFLAGS, yes
+<Linus> I think having a single variable set by the top makefile better allows for expansion
+<Bagder>        true
+<Linus> but TARGET is so basic that it may need special treatment
+<PsycoXul>      well
+<Bagder>        but the Makefile need special treatment of the DEBUG option
+<PsycoXul>      you could just put a + infront of the equal for the first CFLAGS line in the makefile and keep the script how it is couldn't you? heh
+<PsycoXul>      *shrug*
+<Bagder>        PsycoXul: no, because then the toplevel's variables won't override the local ones, for target etc
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<--     dwihno has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+<Bagder>        uh, no
+<PsycoXul>      but their being defined to the make line so they should
+<Bagder>        right
+*       Bagder gets confused
+<PsycoXul>      thats why its not building now cause its overriding the CFLAGS
+<PsycoXul>      and not what i said anyways :p
+-->     dwihno (dwihno@Bald067.Baldakinen.Umea.SE) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        so we need to set the TARGET variable in the toplevel
+---     Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|lunch
+<Bagder>        ok, now it sets TARGET and DEBUG only
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      yeah but you left $(DEBUG) unescaped again :p
+*       Bagder hits himself in the head
+<PsycoXul>      and hmm is it supposed to pass 'DEBUG=1' as an argument to make? heh
+<Bagder>        yes
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<PsycoXul>      oh right duh heh
+<PsycoXul>      be nice with a clean: target too but yeah it works now anyways
+<Bagder>        yeah, we should add clean target too
+<Bagder>        I just made it support 'configure update' which reads a previous Makefile and just generates a new
+-->     chris1 (~flanz@62.132.155.14) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        good to have when the script is updated
+<dwihno>        DAMN
+<dwihno>        I HATE MY FUCKING ALLERGIY!
+<dwihno>        http://www.pollenrapport.com/index.asp
+<dwihno>        DAMN DAMN DAMN!
+<chris1>        hi all, long time no eMail tread see in my inbox. so I check out this channel .
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      things are still progressing
+<PsycoXul>      i just tested directory browsing on my unit a little while ago and it [mostly] works
+<PsycoXul>      wow so much green so little yellow its looking good heh
+<dwihno>        PsycoXul: COOL :D
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<PsycoXul>      how do you have rapport with pollen besides not being allergic to it? heh
+<PsycoXul>      oh if rapport's not the english word heh
+<dwihno>        :)
+<dwihno>        <-- is making a script to send me pollenprognos varje day
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      damn i think my usb transfer's fucked up again damnit
+<PsycoXul>      and it shouldn't even be anywhere near dead i haven't even used it since last charge except to copy firmware on there a few times
+<dwihno>        there
+<dwihno>        Prognos:  22/5   H H H H M-H
+<dwihno>        Now my script is done ;D
+<dwihno>        Now I need some script to send a SMS
+<PsycoXul>      so yeah for the directory browser whatever, i think there should some sort of method to easily add new file handlers
+<PsycoXul>      of course when you select an mp3 it plays it, but it should also have such behaviour [eventualy] for any kind of file type we can do anything reasonable with, such as displaying a text file
+<PsycoXul>      but yeah
+<PsycoXul>      Zagor|lunch: what'd you break? heh
+<PsycoXul>      button handling hmm
+---     Linus|lunch is now known as Linus
+<Linus> dwihno: Have you tried "hyposensibilisering"?
+<dwihno>        Linus: whazzaaat?
+<Linus> It's a medical program to treat allergy
+<Linus> You take one shot a week for a couple of years with the substance you are allergic to
+<Linus> so the body gets used to it
+<dwihno>        hmm
+<dwihno>        I could use it
+<Linus> I did it. And now I am free from my allergy.
+<dwihno>        Whoa
+<Linus> However, I have heard of cases when it has backfired...
+---     Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor
+<dwihno>        ouch
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: buttons don't work?
+<dwihno>        Zagor: Do you know any free SMS-sending service? :) I want to use a shellscript to post me pollen data every 24 hours :)
+<Zagor> i'm working on repeat handling
+<Zagor> dwihno: set up your own: smash.sourceforge.net
+<dwihno>        Not Found
+<dwihno>        The requested URL /download.php was not found on this server.
+<dwihno>        Apache/1.3.20 Server at smash.sourceforge.net Port 80
+<Zagor> oops :)
+<Zagor> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/smash/smash-0.12.tar.gz
+-->     ironi (irony@pcc321-11.bibl.hj.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        hey ironi
+<Zagor> ooh, the web guru! :*)
+<ironi> hello =)
+<ironi> im sorry for being away, i have had a lot to do
+<ironi> right now im writing a paper on open source
+<Bagder>        woo
+<Zagor> cool
+<ironi> its just a small paper for my class
+<ironi> im actually thinking of writing my masters on the same subject
+<ironi> this one im doing now will be  just 15-20 pages
+<ironi> anyway, i am trying to find information, especially on if/how open source development has affected companis using traditional development methods
+<ironi> prefferably smaller companies, not microsoft and ibm
+<ironi> thats the focus of the paper
+<ironi> nay ideas of whre i can search
+<ironi> i figured you guys know alot about this
+<Bagder>        http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/policy/2001/12/12/transition.html
+<Bagder>        :-)
+*       Bagder brags
+<Bagder>        http://www.softpanorama.org/Copyright/License_classification/social_roots_of_GPL.shtml
+<Bagder>        http://www.sdmagazine.com/documents/s=746/sdm0003d/0003d.htm
+<ironi> wow
+<Bagder>        mainly philosophical papers
+<Zagor> what's the name of that swedish company making web cameras and stuff? axess?
+<Bagder>        something on A it is, axis?
+<ironi> hm
+<ironi> axis
+<ironi> i this
+<ironi> think
+<Zagor> yes, axis it is
+<ironi> Bagder: wow
+<Zagor> they've contributed a linux port for their ETRAX processors
+<Zagor> http://developer.axis.com/software/linux/index.html
+<Zagor> http://developer.axis.com/software/elinux/index.html
+<Bagder>        I think they made the gcc adaption for it too
+<ironi> well
+<Zagor> probably, yes
+<ironi> Bagder: thanks for the links
+<Bagder>        ironi: I can in fact dig up quite a few more on request ;-)
+<ironi> maybe something on if/how open source development has affected companies using traditional development methods
+<Bagder>        we've been planning and discussing a follow-up on that O'Reilley article
+<PsycoXul>      hmm back
+<PsycoXul>      Zagor: it acts like there's buttons being pressed when there's not and goes wild then the red light comes on and it freezes
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: ohh, fun :-) i'm working on it
+<Bagder>        ironi: I don't think there is very much material out there on that specific area
+<ironi> Bagder: I see. It is very interesting though, I think.
+<Bagder>        it is
+<Bagder>        http://www.osdn.com/bcg/BCGHACKERSURVEY.pdf
+<Bagder>        "what motivates open source contributors"
+*       Bagder participated
+<Bagder>        ironi, check this http://www.michaelbauer.com/open-corporations.html
+*       Bagder stops flooding
+<ironi> cool
+<chris1>        we do it for fun, we love this RockBox. Nobody will make us a better software for this box, as we self.
+<Bagder>        hey guys, if I commit a firmware/Makefile with OBJDIR support, can you check it out then?
+<Zagor> i'll be sure to smack you if it doesn't work, if that's what you mean :)
+<Bagder>        that's exactly what I mean
+*       Linus grabs his bat
+<Bagder>        committed
+<Bagder>        the deps generation is the tricky part
+<Zagor> idea: the default target in firmware/Makefile prints out: Don't run me! Read COMPILING.
+<Bagder>        yeah, that might be a good idea
+<Bagder>        the deps files should probably be made in the OBJDIR too...
+<Bagder>        in fact they have to, to support multiple builds from the same sources
+<Zagor> yes
+<Bagder>        well, try this version first
+<Zagor> seems to work
+<Zagor> unless I override OBJDIR, that is :)
+<Bagder>        heh
+<Bagder>        what fails?
+<Zagor> make: *** No rule to make target `/tmp/rb/drivers/ata.o', needed by `/tmp/rb/librockbox.a'.  Stop.
+<ironi> oops
+<ironi> gotta go
+<ironi> bbl
+<Bagder>        bye ironi
+<Zagor> the -include at the bottom has to change too
+<Zagor> bye
+<Linus> cu
+<PsycoXul>      make[1]: *** No rule to make target `/home/psyco/s/code/misc/archos/rockbox/drivers/ata.o', needed by `/home/psyco/s/code/misc/archos/rockbox/librockbox.a'.  Stop.
+<PsycoXul>      heh thats without overriding OBJDIR 
+<PsycoXul>      with using the tools/configure generated makefile...
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|meeting
+<Bagder>        that is "overriding" ;-)
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Bagder>        its the default actions that make this a bit tricky
+<PsycoXul>      i see hmm
+<Bagder>        me fix
+<Bagder>        try now
+<--     chris1 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<PsycoXul>      make[1]: Entering directory `/home/psyco/s/code/misc/archos/rockbox/firmware'
+<PsycoXul>      Updating dependencies for thread.c
+<PsycoXul>      mkdir: cannot create directory `/home/psyco/s/code/misc/archos/rockbox/.deps': File exists
+<Zagor> I propose adding -b to the cvs diff mailings (ignore whitespace changes). anyone against?
+<PsycoXul>      and 3 more mkdir errors
+<Bagder>        Zagor: fine with me
+<Bagder>        PsycoXul: if you make that mkdir -p ?
+<Bagder>        nah
+<Bagder>        the check is wrong
+<Bagder>        the -d just before it
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<Bagder>        if [ ! -d $(OBJDIR)/$$d ]; it should be
+<PsycoXul>      ake[1]: *** No rule to make target `/home/psyco/s/code/misc/archos/rockbox/drivers/ata.o', needed by `/home/psyco/s/code/misc/archos/rockbox/librockbox.a'.  Stop.
+<Bagder>        hm
+<PsycoXul>      why does it want to make drivers/ata.o and not just ata.o from drivers/ata.c
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Bagder>        I need to strip off the trailing subdir
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: the buttons work a little better now
+<PsycoXul>      Zagor: cool
+<PsycoXul>      i'll test it as soon as i get it to compile again heh :p
+<Zagor> still some odd bugs though :)
+<PsycoXul>      so yeah i'm wondering
+<PsycoXul>      i noticed when it boots it like pauses with the red light on for a moment and then the HD spins down and then spins back up again and then it reads it and then stuff comes up
+<Zagor> it's hyper responsive now. neato
+<PsycoXul>      but archos' firmware doesn't do that, it just goes straight through
+<PsycoXul>      are maybe some of the initialization things you're doing actualy done for you already by the rom firmware and thus unnecessary?
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: hmm, i don't get that over gdb
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<Zagor> well actually I do, but that's because i always start from spun-down state
+<Bagder>        drivers/lcd.c:427:22: macro "lcd_update" passed 1 arguments, but takes just 0
+<Bagder>        why does it say this?
+<Zagor> because we first declare it as a macro and then try to define it as a function
+<Zagor> silly
+<Zagor> us
+<Zagor> :)
+<Bagder>        ah right
+<Zagor> but adiamas was a bit hurried doing the fix. it should be a function for recorder too, not just simulator
+<Zagor> maybe that's why you're getting it
+<Bagder>        it is
+<dwihno>        tra l ala
+<dwihno>        jävla allergibah
+<Bagder>        this won't work with the default actions for .c.o
+<Zagor> we need to start getting this filelist code working soon
+<Zagor> and also start thinking about in-memory filelists
+<dwihno>        Yeah
+<Zagor> such as the one we get when browsing. currently it reads from disk every time the list scrolls, which isn't exactly nice :)
+<dwihno>        hehe
+<dwihno>        "First get it to work, then optimize" ;)
+<Zagor> yup
+<dwihno>        And make the font smaller too! I want to see long filenames and skip the scrolling! :)
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<dwihno>        NOW NOW NOW! :)
+<dwihno>        Just kidding
+<Zagor> ok, i've found our first (i think) works-in-simulator-but-not-in-target bug
+<dwihno>        In time, everything will be perfect
+<Zagor> when browsing files in a subdir, scrolling down will mysteriously take you to the parent dir again
+<Zagor> only on target
+<PsycoXul>      ok i've got a dir on here named "Adam Sandler" that shows up as "HMC1 Y   U"
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: that's code for "adam sandler sucks" :)
+<PsycoXul>      :p
+<Zagor> "you really don't want to listen to this anyway, do you?" ;)
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<Zagor> the lcd_puts also should output full lines, not just the length of the string
+<Zagor> lotsa bugs found already :)
+<PsycoXul>      and then i go into this one dir and when i scroll past 2 files it goes to the dir below it heh
+<PsycoXul>      or above it
+<PsycoXul>      whatever
+<Zagor> or rather lcd_puts() works well, it's tree.c that bugs
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: yeah, I get that too. but not in the simulator
+<PsycoXul>      hmm it also hasn't shown me an id3 yet
+<PsycoXul>      and it seems to have just locked up trying on one
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Zagor> no something bugs in the file access code, it prints out "can't find file"
+<Zagor> in gdb mode, that is
+<Zagor> I guess we're not ready for release yet :)
+<PsycoXul>      it shows me no artist/no title on the disk label... heh
+<PsycoXul>      locks up on archos.mod heh
+<PsycoXul>      most of them it says [no id3 info] even though i know there is, and others it just locks up on
+<Zagor> file.c bugs. i'm looking at that now
+<Bagder>        try the firmware/makefile again
+<PsycoXul>      still its getting exciting heh
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<PsycoXul>      thread.c:42: warning: missing initializer
+<PsycoXul>      thread.c:42: warning: (near initialization for `threads.ctx')
+<PsycoXul>      make[1]: *** No rule to make target `/home/psyco/s/code/misc/archos/rockbox/crt0.o', needed by `/home/psyco/s/code/misc/archos/rockbox/librockbox.a'.  Stop.
+<Bagder>        first thing, or does it do anything good first?
+<PsycoXul>      well if i make it THISDIR="." it works heh
+<PsycoXul>      yeah it compiles several things before getting to that
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        right, that's an assembler file
+<elinenbe>      I am not sure if my box rocks!  Who should I speak to about this?
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        PsycoXul: another update!
+<elinenbe>      For some reason it is packed full of Rod Stewart and Celion Dion!
+<PsycoXul>      woo
+<PsycoXul>      it gets all the way to apps/archos.elf before it dies about no ../firmware/librockbox.a 
+<Bagder>        right, haven't touched that Makefile yet
+<PsycoXul>      i know
+<PsycoXul>      thats why i said woo :p
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<elinenbe>      things are moving along nicely?
+<--     ironi has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<Bagder>        they do
+<dwihno>        <-- is sneezing like crazy
+<--     elinenbe has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.6 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0+/20020513]")
+<Zagor> odd bugs happening
+<dwihno>        ?
+<Zagor> on target, tree.c calls playtune)() with too short a dir path!
+<Zagor> in the simulator it works just dandy
+<dwihno>        not enough debugf's :)
+<Zagor> i've got gdb, I don't need DEBUGF :)
+<dwihno>        Naaah :)
+*       dwihno sends some debugfs' to dr. Zag
+<dwihno>        Prognos:  22/5   H, H, H, M-H
+<dwihno>        Damn, jävla pollen!
+*       Bagder is back
+<Bagder>        the apps/Makefile has been adjusted to OBJDIR now too
+<Bagder>        would be neato if someone tried it out
+<Zagor> make -C IRMWARE OBJDIR=.
+<Zagor> make: *** IRMWARE: No such file or directory.  Stop
+<Bagder>        ugh
+<Bagder>        how did you get that?
+<Zagor> also add a -g to CFLAGS in apps while you're add it, it doesn't have one
+<Zagor> just running "make" in apps
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Bagder>        stupid me
+<Bagder>        btw, do you have a better suggestion for that part
+<Zagor> i haven't looked at it :)(
+<Bagder>        it has a dependency on the librockbox.a
+<Bagder>        and if it is absent, it runs make in the firmware dir
+<Bagder>        and generate the lib in the OBJDIR
+<Bagder>        in fact, it generates everything in OBJDIR
+<Bagder>        I could just ignore that target
+<dwihno>        How dangerous is it to have the player attached to the power cord all days? Should I disconnect the charging device when the battery gets full?
+<Zagor> dwihno: it should be ok, but some US people have reported overheating problems
+<Bagder>        I decided, I cut out that target
+<Bagder>        damn it, no I don't
+<Bagder>        Zagor: you want -g on all builds or just debug?
+<Zagor> just debug
+<dwihno>        Zagor: Ah, okay. Your unit is unharmed? :) I guess you're the one who's using your archos on a daily basis
+<Zagor> yes, i have no problem with mine
+<dwihno>        I'm off however. Have a nice evening.
+---     dwihno is now known as dw_gone
+<--     Linus|meeting (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+-->     ironi (ironi@as2-5-7.j.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+*       Zagor just soldered power cables to the battery pods. no more low battery problems :)
+<Bagder>        I just committed a modified apps/Makefile
+<Bagder>        you want to use that from the toplevel makefile
+<Bagder>        "tools/configure update" is goodness too
+<ironi> lalal
+<Zagor> umm, have you added tools/configure?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        you should try it
+<Zagor> ah, it was already fetched.
+<Zagor> cool. works great!
+<Bagder>        all the way?
+<Zagor> yep. create a build/ dir, ran ../configure update and make and whooosh, archos.mod
+<Bagder>        neato
+<Zagor> yup, very nice
+<Bagder>        almost like magic
+<Bagder>        I'll make a post about it
+<Zagor> do so
+<ironi> Aare we approaching 1.0 any time soon?
+<Zagor> yep
+<ironi> *says the inpatient beta tester*
+<Zagor> ironing out some bugs currently
+<ironi> Zagor: wh do you think it will be available?
+<Zagor> a week, maybe two
+<ironi> cool
+<ironi> Maybe I sohuld put some effort into making a webpage to be doen until the release
+<ironi> done
+<Zagor> yeah, that'd be nice
+<Bagder>        would be cool
+<ironi> =)
+<ironi> I just have to find some free time. =)
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> just send me the RGB values and i'll fix the basic layout
+<Zagor> then we can tweak it more later
+<ironi> as you wish
+<ironi> Zagor: light-blue: R:182 G: 198 B: 228, dark-blue: R: 104 G: 135 B: 187
+<Zagor> Bagder: will you add a COMPILING file to firmware/ too? or whatever is a suitable name
+<Zagor> ironi: thanks
+<ironi> Zagor: np
+<Zagor> do you have the link to that image, so I can take a look=
+<Bagder>        I'll do that
+<Bagder>        perhaps BUILD is better?
+<Zagor> or simply README :)
+<Bagder>        or COMPILE ?
+<Bagder>        README is good
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<Bagder>        README it is
+<Bagder>        time to go
+<Bagder>        see ya
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<Zagor> gotta go. see you guys
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<ironi> so
+-->     chris1 (~flanz@62.132.155.14) has joined #rockbox
+<chris1>        hi
+<Tumm>  hi
+<chris1>        I will short point out , that on w32 no stdbool.h file exist.The windows.h has some BOOELAN #define . on the W32 platform
+<chris1>        most files on the firmware directory will use stdbool.h
+<--     chris1 has quit ("r")
+<--     Tumm has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<--     ironi (ironi@as2-5-7.j.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Tumm (coyote@dreamhosted.borlange.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     amm80 (~amm80@zone-7.jesus.cam.ac.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<amm80> hello everyone
+<amm80> Is anyone listening, I'd like to chat about my Archos Jukebox
+<--     amm80 has quit ("Client Exiting")
+---     dw_gone is now known as dwihno
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<adi|home>      oh, christ.. your back?>
+<Bagder>        ?
+<adi|home>      ??
+*       adi|home pokes Bagder with a wet noodle
+<Bagder>        hey, its morning here!
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<adi|home>      hey its 02:00 here :)
+<adi|home>      is something up with the sourceforge cvs?
+<Bagder>        I dunno
+<Bagder>        doesn't work?
+<adi|home>      i do: cvs update -dp and it keeps failing on my password
+<adi|home>      and its taking *forever*
+*       Bagder tries
+<Bagder>        yeps, seems like it is having problems
+<adi|home>      grr
+<dwihno>        Good morning lads.
+<Bagder>        hey
+<Bagder>        adi|home: cvs is up again
+<adi|home>      i noticed :)
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        adi|home: you think it would be a good idea to use the configure approach for simulator builds too?
+<Bagder>        morning bro
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Zagor> hi
+<Bagder>        Zagor: we should remodel that activity thing on the web page, now that it is almost entirely green
+<Bagder>        it makes the impression that we're done
+<Zagor> actually i did that on purpose yesterday
+<Zagor> do indicate how far off from release we are
+<Zagor> to
+<Bagder>        any progress on the file code?
+<Zagor> actually, it's tree.c that bugs
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Bagder>        I'm about to finally get my sh tools setup
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+*       Bagder sallutes dr Linus' arrival
+*       dwihno pollutes ... erhm, salutes, too :)
+*       Bagder considers setting up some "daily Rockbox builds"
+<adi|home>      on the sim... if i want to try playing an mp3...
+<adi|home>      what key do we have mapped to that?
+<Bagder>        it should play it when it displays the id3 data
+<adi|home>      hmmm and if it don't?
+<Bagder>        then something isn't working ;-)
+<adi|home>      in the makefile.. i should only have to turn the PLAY=1 on yes?
+<Bagder>        MPEG_PLAY, yes
+<Zagor> play.c doesn't call the play code, i think
+<Bagder>        it does
+<adi|home>      hmmm i get an error stating mpeg_play.h not found...
+<Zagor> ok
+<adi|home>      did we lose that at some point?
+<Bagder>        I don't know
+<Bagder>        I never tried playing mp3
+<adi|home>      is there a way to test in a makefile if a value is on or not?
+<Zagor> ifdef
+<adi|home>      ie: if(MPEG_PLAY==1)
+<Zagor> ifdef MPEG_PLAY
+<adi|home>      k.. ill try that
+<Bagder>        or 'ifeq'
+<Zagor> yes, if you want to compare values
+<Bagder>        "Bonsai is tree control (get it?)"
+<Bagder>        funny guys those mozilla hackers ;-)
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Bagder>        bonsai + tinderbox makes a cool daily build system, you seen them in action?
+<adi|home>      i don't get the Bonsai joke..
+<adi|home>      how does it relate to mozilla..
+<Bagder>        its a tool to overview CVS actions, in the dev tree
+<Bagder>        it was made for mozilla, thought it is independent
+<Bagder>        though
+<Bagder>        we use it here in our project at work
+<adi|home>      got ya
+<Bagder>        we have tinderbox building the entire system, for 5-6 different configs, non-stop
+<adi|home>      LOL 
+<adi|home>      i guess you could call this "sound"
+<adi|home>      jesus christ
+<adi|home>      talk about sounding like crap
+*       adi|home shakes his head
+<Bagder>        it makes a great web-page that can show exactly who did what that made the compiles break
+<adi|home>      okay.. i did my one minor fix for the day.. bed time
+<Bagder>        night adi
+<Bagder>        the toplevel makefile doesn't work for me
+<Zagor> no?
+<Zagor> what happens
+<Bagder>        drivers/button.c:128: `PBDR_BTN_ON' undeclared (first use in this function)
+<Bagder>        where is that define?
+<Zagor> uh, no idea
+<Bagder>        this is a recorder build btw
+<Bagder>        the player build works better, but not completely
+-->     irony (irony@as2-5-7.j.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        hm, it is in Gary's code
+<Bagder>        only
+<Bagder>        hey irony
+<irony> hey Bagder 
+<irony> Zagor: u there?
+<irony> Bagder: u work @ contactor too?
+<Bagder>        yepso
+<Zagor> yep
+<irony> cool
+<Bagder>        yah ;-)
+<irony> you develop applications right?
+<dwihno>        Everybody does! :)
+<Bagder>        well, us guys are mainly embedded
+<irony> well some companies do consulting and supply vendor products
+<Bagder>        realtime, network, unix, on the metal
+<irony> i have a short questionnaire for developers regarding open source
+<irony> in smaller companies, and contactor seems the right size
+<irony> so if i mail it to any of you would you answer? it takes 10 minutes
+<Bagder>        well, we're pure consultants
+<Bagder>        sure
+<Zagor> fire away
+<irony> email it now from my classmates account
+<Bagder>        Zagor: is the "Port B data register bits" interesting for the Player too or are they Recorder stuff?
+<Bagder>        they seem to be related to LCD mucking
+<irony> ok so i mailed it now, if you could anwer asap I would be happy
+<Bagder>        got it
+<irony> =)
+<Bagder>        uh, word
+<Zagor> irony: lesson 1: Don't use msword for open source work :)
+<PsycoXul>      hah
+<irony> Zagor: i was just about to say that we dont practice what we research :-P
+<Zagor> Bagder: which bits do you mean? LCD_DS/CS/SD/SC are needed for both
+<irony> you do have word...or staroffice or somethig...dont you
+<irony> right
+<Zagor> irony: we can read it, but you'll get a text reply ok?
+<irony> no problem at all
+<irony> well, if you dont have any q's I need to continue my mission
+<Bagder>        move on, there's nothing to see here ;-)
+<--     irony has quit ("work work work")
+<Linus> Bagder: Port B is mostly LED, I2C and LCD
+<Bagder>        but generic?
+<Linus> You mean common for both player and recorder?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Linus> I don't know. The Recorder schematic is incomplete
+<Bagder>        ok
+<Bagder>        I add them in the global area
+<Linus> But the Player uses Port B for LCD, LED and I2C
+<Bagder>        then we'll change that if need be
+<Linus> global area?
+<Bagder>        without ifdefs or anything
+<dwihno>        I2C = ?
+<Linus> A serial bus
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<Bagder>        I intend to get a recorder version of archos.mod to build
+<dwihno>        Cool! It would be neat to test it! :)
+<dwihno>        How do you load it?
+<dwihno>        does it require some hw mod?
+<Zagor> no, you just copy archos.mod to the root dir
+<dwihno>        hm
+<dwihno>        but what about the ajbrec.ajz file?
+<Zagor> the recorder looks for a number of files
+<Zagor> i'm not sure in what order. it's best to only have one firmware file in root
+<dwihno>        okay
+<Linus> I just can't figure out why they would want a compressed firmware file (I guess ajz is compressed)
+<Bagder>        Linus/Zagor: check out the sh7034.h mods I just committed
+<Zagor> no ajz is not compressed, it's just renamed
+<Linus> then I'm completely lost
+<Zagor> well, the ways of archos aren't meant to be understood by us mere mortals :)
+<Linus> Maybe the extension .MOD was too popular in Windows
+<Linus> and people got in trouble when double-clicking on it
+<Zagor> haha
+<dwihno>        :)
+<Linus> maybe winamp tried to play it
+<dwihno>        Is the 'HD-lock-problem' solved?
+<dwihno>        I mean, the thing causing it?
+<Zagor> yes, long ago
+<Zagor> oh, no the reason is still unknown
+<dwihno>        Stupid to even have such a feature
+<Zagor> yeah it's a bit odd
+<Zagor> i've heard the xbox uses it to protect against reading the disk in a pc
+<Bagder>        dang
+<Bagder>        archos.mod for the recorder
+<Linus> dang?
+<Linus> Ah
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<dwihno>        Is it done?
+<Bagder>        its done here ;-)
+<dwihno>        whoa!
+<dwihno>        test it!
+<Bagder>        don't have my archos around
+<dwihno>        Well, if you promise it won't lock my HD, I want to test it :)
+<dwihno>        <-- just got a cup of tea - TASTY! :]~
+<Zagor> i promise
+<Zagor> almost :)
+<dwihno>        hehe
+<dwihno>        Well, DCC it then :)
+*       Bagder commits
+<dwihno>        <-- has no compiler :/
+<Bagder>        now all three targets build
+<dwihno>        cool! :D
+<dwihno>        send send send send :D
+<dwihno>        <-- wants to test!
+<Bagder>        I can't dcc, email only. address?
+<dwihno>        dwihno@hotmail.com
+<Bagder>        try this http://storebror.haxx.se/archos.mod
+<dwihno>        got it
+<dwihno>        here goes nothing
+<dwihno>        didn't start the firmware
+<dwihno>        I'll test renaming it
+<Bagder>        yes, try that
+<dwihno>        What is working with the firmware?
+<Bagder>        hehe, we haven't even tried the recorder one yet
+<dwihno>        ata: -2
+<dwihno>        how do I turn it off?! :)
+<Bagder>        ok
+<Zagor> dwihno: yay!
+<Bagder>        c00l
+<Zagor> dwihno: you got that on the displat?
+<dwihno>        Zagor: Yes, now tell me how to turn it off! :)
+<Zagor> hold down off
+<Bagder>        then the lcd stuff works ok at least
+<dwihno>        for how long :) ?
+<Zagor> if that doesn't work, pull a battery
+<dwihno>        ah
+<dwihno>        Pulled the power cord out
+<Bagder>        sorry
+<Zagor> apparently the OFF key is software controlled
+<dwihno>        with power cord out, power off worked
+<Zagor> ok, yeah you can't turn it off with the power cord connected
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Bagder>        goodie
+<dwihno>        well, the ata: -2 means ?
+<Zagor> it means a part of the ata init code failed (check_registers)
+<Zagor> no, that's hard_reset
+<Linus> Bagder: why include the port name in the defines in sh7034.h?
+<Bagder>        dwihno: you're the first person running this on the recorder, congrats! ;-)
+<dwihno>        I AM! :D
+<dwihno>        YAY!
+<Bagder>        Linus: because that's how Gary did it and thus that's what the code uses
+<Zagor> i found the tree.c bug. it turns opendir() corrupts the input argument
+<Linus> We have waited long for a gullible guinea pig to try it. :-)
+<Zagor> Linus: lol
+<Linus> I think that defeats the purpose of having defines at all
+<Bagder>        feel free to fix
+<Linus> I'll do that.
+<Linus> Someday. :-)
+<Bagder>        haha
+<Zagor> Bagder: which code uses them, you said? no code in lcd.c uses them...
+<Linus> Bagder: what code uses those defines?
+<dwihno>        How far away is a release now?
+*       dwihno is thrilled! :D
+<Zagor> dwihno: a week, maybe
+---     dwihno is now known as dwihno_ata-2
+<Bagder>        Linus: lcd code
+<dwihno_ata-2>  Now I'm known as the ata -2 dude ;D
+<Zagor> but the recorder will take longer, since we haven't written the mpeg code for that yet
+<Bagder>        or was it buttons?
+<dwihno_ata-2>  ah
+<Bagder>        ;-)
+<dwihno_ata-2>  Nice to test it though :)
+---     dwihno_ata-2 is now known as dwihno
+<dwihno>        At least, the LCD stuff works ;)
+<Zagor> Bagder: never mind, i'll fix it so The Code Police is happy :)
+<Bagder>        Zagor: you going full time rockbox then in a week or so? ;-)
+<Zagor> you bet!
+<Bagder>        we expect miracles to happen then ;-)
+<dwihno>        :D
+<dwihno>        I showed my archos to my mother last night, she got all impressed
+<Linus> Bagder: not in lcd.c
+<Bagder>        use grep?
+<Linus> Never mind. I'll leave that to the cops
+<Zagor> Bagder: is right for strtok_r:
+<Zagor>     for ( part = strtok_r(name, "/", &end); part;
+<Zagor>           part = strtok_r(end, "/", &end)) {
+<Bagder>        no
+<Bagder>        the first is right
+<Bagder>        the second should use NULL as first argument 
+<Zagor> ah, then it takes end as start. ok, saw it now
+<Zagor> end points to the byte *after* the null termination, right?
+<Zagor> yes it does. ok
+<Bagder>        I don't think you need to care about what it points to
+<Zagor> i need to restore the / chars in the string, since i'm strtok:ing the input argument
+<Zagor> either that, or copy the string every time
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Zagor> well I guess a copy is cleaner
+<Zagor> i'll do that for now
+<Zagor> Bagder: how should i initialize the malloc system?
+<Bagder>        first dmalloc_initialize();
+<Bagder>        then bmalloc_add_pool(thisisourheap, AMOUNT_OF_MEMORY);
+<Zagor> ok
+<Bagder>        'make clean' first generates all depencies, then removes them all... :-/
+<Bagder>        dependencies
+<Zagor> yeah, not very pretty
+<Bagder>        it annoys me
+<Zagor> where is size_t defined?
+<Bagder>        stdlib.h I think
+<Bagder>        now why would ata_hard_reset() fail?
+<Zagor> 1) it's using the wrong port pin
+<Zagor> 2) the ata interface registers are at different addresses
+<Bagder>        ok
+<Zagor> actually 1) isn't a problem, we've always had it at the wrong pin :)
+<Bagder>        so we might need to bring out the disassembler again?
+<Zagor> no linus has just "beeped" the right one
+<Bagder>        heh
+<Bagder>        good old beeping linus ;-)
+<Zagor> getsonglength() doesn't work on target. it never finds a frame header
+<Bagder>        weird
+<Linus> PA9
+<Linus> not PA1
+<Linus> It seems like Archos was aiming to use IDE DMA
+<Zagor> whoooo, id3 display!
+<Zagor> (songlength commented out)
+<Linus> Or maybe they do...?
+<Zagor> time for Greasy Friday
+*       Zagor now only waits for Linus' mpeg code
+<Bagder>        so the tree stuff works now?
+<Zagor> yup, it was the opendir() strtok that bugged
+<Bagder>        coolio
+---     Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|lunch
+<--     Tumm has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+---     Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor
+---     Linus|lunch is now known as Linus
+<Zagor> recorder ata uses a different ENABLE pin according to the schematic
+<Zagor> that would explain why it's not working
+<Bagder>        sounds right
+<Zagor> all this is accordning to linus, of course. i take no responsibility :-)
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<dwihno>        GO LINUS!
+<dwihno>        GO MPEG!
+<dwihno>        :D
+<Bagder>        Zagor: if you make a fix, I'll rebuild and we'll have dwihno test it :-)
+<dwihno>        haha
+<dwihno>        Fix the damn ata: -2 first :)
+<Zagor> dwihno is a good test victim :)
+<Bagder>        dwihno: that's the part we're talking about
+<Zagor> dwihno: that's what we're discussing
+<dwihno>        Ah, cool :)
+<dwihno>        What's wrong with the ata stuff?
+<dwihno>        Didn't you fix that already?
+<Zagor> not yet
+<Zagor> we're working on it
+<dwihno>        Cool
+<dwihno>        Do you know what's wrong?
+<Zagor> not exactly, the ENABLE theory was wrong
+<Zagor> we're comparing the schematics
+<Bagder>        asch
+<dwihno>        mkay
+<dwihno>        strcmp!
+<dwihno>        strcmp("ata: -2", "No ata error");
+-->     Tumm (coyote@dreamhosted.borlange.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> silent bob joins again :)
+<Bagder>        hi Tumm!
+<Bagder>        Zagor: MAX is wrong
+<Zagor> really?
+<Bagder>        just swapping the positions to MIN still return the smaller one
+<Zagor> right. it was linus' idea! ;)
+*       Linus slaps his forehead
+*       Bagder laughs
+<Bagder>        I had to think several seconds
+*       Zagor has no brain of his own
+<Bagder>        assuming you did something clever
+<Linus> I didn't
+<Linus> It's a pity that Zagor relies on my brain...
+<Bagder>        cvs commit mails truly are useful
+*       dwihno starts singing the "damn you customer, you are so dumb" song
+<dwihno>        The user is a slave under the software
+<dwihno>        The coder is a master over the software
+<dwihno>        Thus, the coder is master over the user :)
+<Bagder>        users are annoying ;-)
+<dwihno>        LUKE, I'M YOUR MASTAH!
+<dwihno>        NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
+<dwihno>        Users are bad.
+<dwihno>        Bad for the mopral
+<Bagder>        ice cream!
+<dwihno>        Coffee!
+<dwihno>        10: drink_coffee(lots)
+<dwihno>        20: goto 10
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<dwihno>        Are there any ANSI C ways to read a high-resolution timer?
+<Bagder>        no
+<dwihno>        Bugger! :/
+<dwihno>        Well, I guess I'll have something to do tonight, checking the win32 api :)
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<dwihno>        What do you think about win32 api coding vs. mfc?
+<Bagder>        GetLocalTime()
+<Bagder>        they both suck
+<dwihno>        If you need to choose?
+<Bagder>        I have no clue, really
+<Bagder>        Zagor: ever been bitten by the great pSOS time() bug? ;-)
+<Zagor> yeah, we just barely survived it
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        we just recently found out
+<Bagder>        time(NULL) writes to address 0 ;-)
+<dwihno>        ata: -2
+<dwihno>        :)
+<Bagder>        dwihno: what's your real name?
+*       Bagder writes a little status mail
+<Zagor> we're very close now
+<dwihno>        Hmm
+<dwihno>        I am Magnus
+<dwihno>        Nice to meet you :)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<dwihno>        Magnus Öman
+<Zagor> i've integrated the mpeg player code, but somehow the threading bugs
+<dwihno>        Evil gosse
+<Zagor> i can tell you guys that the 6000 draws 170mA when idle
+<dwihno>        Is that good or bad? :)
+<Zagor> well, it just is :-)
+<Zagor> it'll be fun trying to lower that by turning off various things
+<Zagor> it goes up to ~700mA during disk access
+<dwihno>        With rockbox or the original firmware?
+<Zagor> rockbox
+<dwihno>        okay
+<dwihno>        you should compare it :)
+<dwihno>        and make some cool charts
+<Zagor> good point, i'll check with the original firmware some day
+<dwihno>        Rockbox - The low power consuming firmware
+<Zagor> well, not yet :)
+<dwihno>        hehe
+<Bagder>        I gotta run
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<Zagor> bye
+<dwihno>        The LCD should be configurable to turn itself off after X seconds of inactivity
+<dwihno>        and the scroller should be fast too :)
+<dwihno>        since my filenames are really long :)
+<dwihno>        and the font could be available in a smaller set :)
+<Zagor> the problem with fast scroll is that it gets blurry. the lcd is pretty slow
+*       dwihno = idespruta today
+<Zagor> fix us a smaller font then
+<dwihno>        Sure
+<dwihno>        Can you send me a gif with the current charset from the recorder so I have a reference?
+<Zagor> it's on the research notes  page 
+<dwihno>        okay
+<dwihno>        Is there a problem with different font size on the LCD?
+<dwihno>        I guess the players are limited already
+<Zagor> the player is fixed, the recorder is free
+<dwihno>        Mkay
+<Zagor> i have a windows font called "small fonts" that would be cool. it's VERY small, like 5x3 pixels
+<Zagor> yet quite readable
+<dwihno>        Just map it in photoshop then :)
+<dwihno>        6x9 px
+<dwihno>        right?
+<dwihno>        (the current one)
+<Zagor> maybe, i don't know
+<dwihno>        6x8, I see now
+<dwihno>        Do you think it would be a disaster with only capital letters?
+<Zagor> not very pretty, anyway
+<dwihno>        Yeah
+<dwihno>        True, true
+<dwihno>        The current rockbox uses the "built-in" charset?
+<Zagor> no, there is no built-in. it's defined in charset.c
+<dwihno>        mkay
+<dwihno>        I thought it would be something stored in some neat ROM somewhere :)
+<dwihno>        The file or directory \Desktop DF is corrupt and unreadable. Please run the chkdsk utility.
+<dwihno>        Damn gay files created when the archos is connected to a mac!
+<dwihno>        damn
+<dwihno>        gay file!
+*       dwihno gets crazy
+<dwihno>        Mac creates a shitload of stupid files when you attach it.
+*       dwihno learned his lesson
+---     dwihno is now known as dw|gone
+*       Zagor can SMELL the release
+<Zagor> ooooh, just a little bug left. too bad i've got to go. see you all!
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs01v-7-97.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<--     alkorr has quit (Client Quit)
+<PsycoXul>      hmmm
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<PsycoXul>      UIE68 at 09000D20
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<adi|home>      i dunno who did what.. but the uisim is broken.. am im too damn tired to fix it.. have fun.
+<--     Tumm has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     Tumm (coyote@dreamhosted.borlange.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs01v-4-235.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<--     alkorr (alkorr@srs01v-4-235.n.club-internet.fr) has left #rockbox
+-->     elinenbe (~chatzilla@pcp01722702pcs.union01.nj.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     elinenbe has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.6 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0+/20020513]")
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     ironi (irony@pcb320-02.ihh-stud.hj.se) has joined #rockbox
+<ironi> hllo
+<Zagor> hi
+<ironi> hi Zagor
+<ironi> hey I just checked the page, and I see there is no red anymore
+<ironi> cool
+<ironi> =)
+<ironi> everything is underway, then
+<Zagor> yup
+<ironi> seen this: An international team set a new record for Internet performance by transferring the equivalent of an entire compact disc's contents across more than 7608 miles (12,272 km) of network in 13 seconds. The rate of 401 megabits per second achieved in transferring 625 megabytes of data from Fairbanks, Alaska to Amsterdam in the Netherlands is over 8000 times greater than the fastest dial-up modem
+<ironi> cool
+<--     ironi has quit (" <k!15b8>")
+-->     huz (~marco@AToulouse-103-1-3-31.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<huz>   hi all
+<--     huz (~marco@AToulouse-103-1-3-31.abo.wanadoo.fr) has left #rockbox ("Client Exiting")
+-->     elinenbe (~chatzilla@pcp01722702pcs.union01.nj.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     elinenbe has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.7 [Mozilla rv:1.0rc3/20020523]")
+<--     Tumm has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
+<Zagor> changed the web page look
+<--     Zagor has quit ("bye")
+-->     Tumm (coyote@dreamhosted.borlange.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     ironi (ironi@as2-5-7.j.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<ironi> hey
+<--     ironi (ironi@as2-5-7.j.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+*       adi|home screams!!!
+<adi|home>      wtf...
+-->     kitsune (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<kitsune>       loh
+<adi|home>      hello
+<adi|home>      and welcome :)
+<kitsune>       hey
+<kitsune>       I'm suprised to see stuff is actually getting done in development
+<kitsune>       ;p
+<adi|home>      hehe alot of stuff..
+<kitsune>       I've got my second juke
+<adi|home>      v1 is close at hand for the players...
+<adi|home>      nice
+<kitsune>       first one died horribly
+<kitsune>       heh
+<kitsune>       This one has problems, I guess
+<kitsune>       heh, there is an apps/ development area?
+<kitsune>       I'm impressed :P
+<kitsune>       how much will this firmware differ from Archo's default? URL to FAQ? ;)
+<adi|home>      hhehe you should play witht he sim a bit.. :)
+<adi|home>      hehe
+<kitsune>       the sim?
+<kitsune>       Tetris?
+<adi|home>      lol
+<adi|home>      we have a user interface simulater
+<kitsune>       porting Quake II to the Archos
+<kitsune>       ah
+<kitsune>       I suspect I'll have to get my hands dirty with all kinds of sh assembly and such
+<adi|home>      so ppl like me can play with the api's while we are trying to get off metal.
+<adi|home>      depends on what you want to do.
+<kitsune>       heh
+<kitsune>       I wouldn't mind customizing some things ;p
+<kitsune>       i.e. the startup 'logo'
+<adi|home>      and i ake it you found my baby ;) (the FAQ)
+<kitsune>       yeah
+<adi|home>      ehehe already done ;)
+<kitsune>       heh.
+<adi|home>      for the recorder, its a bitmap of the ROCKbox! logo
+<kitsune>       hah, bitmap? Awesome
+<adi|home>      nods
+<kitsune>       my little annoying project has been getting a very skinny Linux boot disk, ala tomsrtbt, and using the jukebox as a nice, simple USB hd.
+<adi|home>      the makefile is a bit scerwed up for the rockbox sim right now.. and im just to lazy to work on it.
+<kitsune>       heh
+<adi|home>      hehehe
+<adi|home>      good luck :)
+<kitsune>       there are some whacky physical problems with mine
+<adi|home>      maybe you could help with the rolo then :)
+<kitsune>       I must find an adequate tool to crack open my box.
+<kitsune>       stupid power terminal seems mashed
+<adi|home>      :)
+<adi|home>      can't help you there.. i know nothing about the hardare
+<kitsune>       hah
+<kitsune>       thus I yank out the soldering iron, and raid some catalog for a decent replacement :p
+<kitsune>       I suspect an allan wrench could do it.
+<kitsune>       I've run into the double-height capability through some weird bug
+<kitsune>       :p
+<kitsune>       and indeed, it is quite annoying
+<adi|home>      hehehe
+*       adi|home runs off a bit
+---     dw|gone is now known as dwihno
+<--     kitsune has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<dwihno>        Hellö
+<Bagder>        hey
+<dwihno>        Had a nice weekend?
+<Bagder>        yeps
+<Bagder>        you?
+<dwihno>        Yeah, I didn't get any serious work done, but I guess it was OK
+<dwihno>        The entire sunday was spent fixing the mothers-day gifts and such
+<Bagder>        hah
+<Bagder>        I saw that attack of the clones yesterday
+<dwihno>        Was it good?
+<Bagder>        well, there are some cool effects, there's cool scenery and stuff
+<Bagder>        I think the Anakin character is a crap actor
+<Bagder>        all in all, I'd give it an "average"
+<dwihno>        okay
+<dwihno>        Expensive hobby ;)
+<dwihno>        Ever since my archos investment, I've been a cheap bastard :)
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<Bagder>        woo, sound settings menu committed
+<dwihno>        :O
+<dwihno>        New code huh?
+<dwihno>        What has happened during the weekend? :)
+<dwihno>        You coded instead of celebrating your mother? :)
+<Bagder>        Björn's committed various fixes
+<dwihno>        Minor bugfixes?
+<Bagder>        I'd call them "fixes" ;-) They're more than bugfixes
+<Bagder>        the sound settings is added
+<Bagder>        and he modified the menu system
+<dwihno>        Mkay
+<dwihno>        Is there any precompiled win32 simulators available for testing?
+<Bagder>        still no ATA fixes that are likely to correct the Recorder problem though
+<dwihno>        I thought it would be neat to test the menu
+<Bagder>        nope
+<Bagder>        yes, binary simulator packages would be neat
+<Bagder>        though the win32-guys are lagging behind these days, I doubt the simulator builds on win32 anymore
+-->     kitsune (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        howdy kitsune
+<kitsune>       heya
+<kitsune>       Lords of Acid - Pussy
+<kitsune>       fun to see rockbox is undergoing work ;)
+<Bagder>        oh yes, moving steadily towards 1.0
+<kitsune>       I sort of watched its development before it even had a name.
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<kitsune>       Brother of Bjorn?
+<Bagder>        I am, yes
+<kitsune>       heh, fear my lack of umlauts.
+<kitsune>       I haven't quite messed around with setting up my keyboard for that.
+<Bagder>        I don't blame you
+<Bagder>        we have those odd-looking characters in our language ;-)
+<kitsune>       heh, you're the one who toys with id3, nifty
+<Bagder>        right, I added that code
+<dwihno>        BROTHER OF BJORN!
+<dwihno>        ALMIGHTY BROTHER! :D
+<Bagder>        ?
+<Bagder>        hehe, right
+<Bagder>        he's my kid brother
+<kitsune>       *nix has some nice ones tools for dealing with those tags :P
+<kitsune>       I generally strip id3v2 tags, and make use of id3ren to give my files a nice, consistent feel.
+<dwihno>        That makes you 40 years old? :)
+<Bagder>        dwihno: not quite ;-)
+<dwihno>        I would strip all ID3 tags and run a utility storing a checksum in the comment field of an id3v1 tag
+<dwihno>        Bagder: So how old are you?
+<dwihno>        Villa, volvo, vovve? :)
+*       Bagder is 31
+<dwihno>        Then you got all those! :D
+<dwihno>        What's the name of the dog? Pricken?
+<Bagder>        nope
+<dwihno>        I'M NOT WORTHYYY!
+*       kitsune messes with another nifty usb hack :p
+<kitsune>       gtkam
+<kitsune>       the power of gphoto
+<dwihno>        USB = cute
+<Bagder>        I haven't tried v2 yet, of gphoto
+<kitsune>       it is the only thing that works my my camera
+<Bagder>        ok, v1 didn't work with mine ;-)
+<Bagder>        Cannon S20
+<kitsune>       A20
+<dwihno>        I got a USB webcam thingy
+<dwihno>        But it's weird 3com stuff, so I guess it won't work :)
+<kitsune>       http://rei.damnsw.net/~adam/stuff/archos.jpg
+<kitsune>       I got bored and decided to scrap my old cgi image gallery :P
+<dwihno>        ayanami rei?
+<kitsune>       heh.
+<kitsune>       indeed.
+<dwihno>        cute pic :D
+<kitsune>       yeah
+<dwihno>        I think Asuka is the coolest
+<kitsune>       heh.
+<dwihno>        That's a lady with attitude! :)
+<kitsune>       Well, my machine is pretty much going to be renamed lilith
+<kitsune>       eventually
+<kitsune>       which is ironic, for someone named adam :p
+<kitsune>       or perhaps eve
+<kitsune>       ;)
+<dwihno>        :)
+<Bagder>        kitsune: you tried running rockbox yet then? ;-)
+<Bagder>        seeing you have a studio
+<kitsune>       Badger - heh, no.
+<dwihno>        I'd love to see the ata: -2 thing fixed, so I can test it on my recorder :)
+<kitsune>       hmm
+<Bagder>        dwihno: I agree
+<Bagder>        we might need to get a recorder modded for gdb
+<kitsune>       I'm pleased with the studio.
+<kitsune>       nice, simple
+<kitsune>       but I'd go for a nice new recorder, with USB2
+<dwihno>        Who wouldn't :)
+<dwihno>        That's why I got one ;D
+<kitsune>       heh
+<kitsune>       indeed
+<dwihno>        I love it already!
+<kitsune>       It'd be a good present for someone
+<dwihno>        I also use it for project storing
+<kitsune>       I suspect most folks I know would be fine with 6 gbs :P
+<adi|home>      Bagder.. yeah.. bjorn commited them... now the uisim so good and broken
+<Bagder>        adi|home: I know, am working on that right now
+<dwihno>        Some people might find 20gb overkill :)
+<kitsune>       it is ;p
+<dwihno>        But when it comes to data storage, it is never enough! :D
+*       dwihno awaits the 100gb model with great anticipation
+<dwihno>        ;)
+<adi|home>      yeah. i was chasing it... and got too damn tired.. im headed to bed now :(
+<kitsune>       I've noticed the USB doesn't seem to be very fast. :p
+<Bagder>        adi|home: leave it to me, I'll have the sim working in a few mins again
+<kitsune>       night adiamas
+<kitsune>       I could go for a type of docking mp3 player, that'd be kind of nifty.
+<kitsune>       albeit you'd still pretty much be stuck with one interface or another.
+<dwihno>        Hm
+<kitsune>       http://rei.damnsw.net/~adam/buttwurst-washingmachine.jpg
+<dwihno>        MP3 players should be mounted as external hard drives
+<dwihno>        That's the biggest breakthrough
+<kitsune>       hilarious images grepped from somethingawful
+<kitsune>       heh
+<dwihno>        instead of using gay-ass software
+<dwihno>        (which, at any time, might be stopped from further development)
+<kitsune>       dwihno - heh, modprobe usb-storage, mount /mnt/juke ;p
+<kitsune>       there, external HD.
+<dwihno>        yeah
+<dwihno>        That's how it's supposed to be done!
+<kitsune>       Well, it isn't like it is a horribly revolutionary idea ;p
+<dwihno>        How do you do to "stop" devices under linux?
+<kitsune>       they're just not using some stupid proprietary system that doesn't work all the well.
+<Bagder>        dwihno: you umount the fs again
+<kitsune>       heh. umount /mnt/juke :p
+<dwihno>        You don't have to do anything else?
+<kitsune>       yeah
+<dwihno>        I mean, in wintendo, you need to "stop" theservice
+<kitsune>       I'm thinking of basically having a docking-ish feature for this thing
+<kitsune>       just use a sync.
+<kitsune>       so I don't need to copy things manually, copy -u is a bit of a bore.
+<dwihno>        ah
+<dwihno>        I got a semi-script thingy which synchronizes the content of my player with d:\mp3 :-)
+<kitsune>       heh.
+<Bagder>        I wrote a mp3sync that works for me
+<kitsune>       heh
+<Bagder>        syncs two file trees
+<dwihno>        How does it compare them if the same file exists in two places?
+<dwihno>        Timestamp?
+<kitsune>       that is basically how cp -u does it.
+<Bagder>        no
+<dwihno>        <-- baked buns yesterday btw
+<dwihno>        I'm the no #1 chef! :D
+<Bagder>        I do a filesize check first
+<dwihno>        I like progress bars
+<dwihno>        They are sleek
+<dwihno>        With time calculation stuff which tells how much time is needed to synchronize the trees
+<Bagder>        it would require a two-pass thingie
+<dwihno>        Who cares!
+<dwihno>        "As long as it's pretty(tm)" :)
+<kitsune>       progress bars? ;p
+<dwihno>        yup
+<kitsune>       nice.
+<dwihno>        Time to goto meeting ;)
+<dwihno>        brb
+---     dwihno is now known as dw|meeting
+<kitsune>       later.
+<kitsune>       oh well
+<kitsune>       I'm greatly impressed :P
+<Bagder>        crap, the recoder build is broken again
+<Bagder>        recorder
+<kitsune>       heh.
+*       kitsune recalls the mp3 he'd hunt for
+<kitsune>       Carmina Burana - O Fortuna
+<kitsune>       to commemerate the efforts of open source programming :P
+<Bagder>        :-)
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<--     kitsune has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Zagor> woo boys
+<Bagder>        morning Zagor
+<Bagder>        the recorder build is broken
+<Zagor> ok, what happens?
+<Bagder>        it's really weird
+<Bagder>        malloc/dmalloc.c:555: conflicting types for `realloc'
+<Bagder>        /usr/local/sh/sh-elf/include/stdlib.h:93: previous declaration of `realloc'
+<Bagder>        make[2]: *** [/home/daniel/src/rockbox/build-recorder/malloc/dmalloc.o] Error 1
+<PsycoXul>      not just recorder
+<Zagor> ah, yes. that's a bit odd
+<PsycoXul>      i got that too on my last player build
+<Bagder>        ok
+<Bagder>        yes, I get it in the player build too
+<Bagder>        its the stdlib.h include in bmalloc.h that causes it
+<Bagder>        but how does the realloc() differ?
+<Zagor> stdlib's realloc takes a void* as first parameter
+<Bagder>        aha
+<Bagder>        the dmalloc.h proto too ;-)
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Bagder>        fix committed
+<Zagor> goodie
+<Zagor> btw, how do you guys like the new web look?
+<Bagder>        the simulator builds too again
+<Zagor> found any bugs yet? ;)
+<Bagder>        Zagor: I want a link on the image on the left-top corner
+<Bagder>        to the front page
+<Zagor> right
+<Zagor> fixed
+<Bagder>        time for a coffee refill
+-->     kitsune (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        do you think I should make the tools/configure system work to build the simulator too?
+<kitsune>       eh.. I dunno
+<kitsune>       all been a blur for me.
+<Zagor> nah, i don't think that's necessary. we don't have to mix that too much
+<kitsune>       when 1.0 pops out in a nice tar.gz, I'll be happy
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<Zagor> kitsune: :-)
+<Bagder>        we should write a tarball-maker-script
+<kitsune>       I think it has been done
+<kitsune>       maybe.
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: my doubleheight code doesn't work. isn't that how you did it?
+<kitsune>       I need to get a nice set of new batteries for my juke :P
+<kitsune>       2200 mAhs or something
+<Zagor> i've only ever seen 1800. who makes 2200?
+<kitsune>       I think you can order them
+<kitsune>       This is from taking a short visit to my local batteries plus.
+<kitsune>       batteries are expensive, but rechargeable ones are not too bad :p
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> Have you missed me?
+<Zagor> i've missed your bug fix to the mpeg code
+<kitsune>       hey
+<Bagder>        oh yeeees
+<Bagder>        we miss your ata adjustments to make the recorder version rock ;-)
+*       kitsune waves to the nice developer type man
+<Linus> Oh. I feel welcome. :-)
+*       Zagor notices he seems to have broken the menu code this weekend :)
+<Linus> Yeah. I have missed a working menu code all weekend.
+<Bagder>        hahaha
+<Zagor> blrllrlrl
+<Zagor> it did work, neener neener
+<Linus> I just couldn't fix the MPEG code without it.
+<Zagor> bah, last I heard you couldn't even get your PC running ;)
+<Linus> No. I have a PC from hell!
+<Linus> I upgraded to be able to betatest a new ***** card from ***** (NDA).
+<Linus> And the single thing that didn't work in the box was that damn card!!!
+<Linus> Major BSOD if I insert it.
+<kitsune>       just have a wimpy linux box around for kicks? ;p
+<adi|home>      grrrrrr.. Bagder... 
+<adi|home>      In file included from ../../apps/play.c:35:
+<adi|home>      ../common/mpegplay.h:21: conflicting types for `mpeg_play'
+<adi|home>      ../../firmware/mpeg.h:23: previous declaration of `mpeg_play'
+<adi|home>      make: *** [play.o] Error 1
+<adi|home>      we have function collisions.
+<Bagder>        ugh
+<adi|home>      when you turn play on in the makefile...
+<adi|home>      the mpegplay in common needs to be renamed.
+<adi|home>      thats all.
+*       Bagder points to Linus and Zagor
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<adi|home>      heehe
+*       Zagor takes no responsibility for breaking the simulators :)
+<Bagder>        I thought they were supposed to work the same way
+<adi|home>      they were... but having both functions in there is not a good idea...
+<adi|home>      otherwise.. we should #define around themm...
+<Bagder>        well, the simulator one could be remade to return void
+<Bagder>        then they would be the same
+<adi|home>      ont you still get conflicts?
+<adi|home>      redefinitions?
+<Bagder>        no
+<Zagor> the simulator doesn't include mpeg.c
+<Bagder>        those are only prototype conflicts
+<adi|home>      ahh.. okay.. then i fix
+<Zagor> PsycoXuuuuul!
+<adi|home>      fixed
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: i need help with the double-height mode. my code isn't working
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<--     kitsune has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<PsycoXul>      with the old lcd_write(int byte, int data) from the old scroller code, i used lcd_write(9,0)
+<PsycoXul>      i dunno how the new code is exactly but maybe false instead of true? heh
+<Zagor> that's precisely what I do too :-(
+<Zagor> hmm, maybe there's a difference in old/new lcds
+<Linus> Possibly
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Zagor> fuhn fuhn fuhn on the autobahn
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> boooo! .a dependencies aren't working
+<Zagor> i changed file.c and it's not rebuilding the lib
+---     dw|meeting is now known as dwihno
+<Bagder>        btw, why do we generate one .dep file for each file and not just one single one?
+<Zagor> 'cause that's how adis dep script does it :)
+<Bagder>        ok :-)
+<Zagor> also it's easier to see when to update the dependencies if you have one .dep per file
+<Bagder>        ah, right
+<PsycoXul>      ok it must be a difference in the lcd's
+<PsycoXul>      it works fine here
+<Zagor> ok
+<Zagor> great with me, lameness is
+-->     kitsune (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> I've been chasing reentrancy bugs in open() and opendir() for 40 minutes, only to find out i was calling open() with a bad argument... :)
+*       Bagder puts the "I am lame" sticker on Zagor's forhead
+<dwihno>        Zagor: Try to have the "positive side" approach - at least, you found it
+*       dwihno puts the "you found the problem and solved it" sticker on Zagor's nose
+<Zagor> :)
+<Zagor> another positive: opendir() now supports multiple concurrent open dirs
+<Bagder>        coolness
+<kitsune>       multiple concurrent open dirs?
+<dwihno>        :D
+<kitsune>       how does that work? ;p
+<dwihno>        Zagor RUUUUUUULES!
+<dwihno>        Zagor: Now move your ass and fix the ata: -2 problem ;)
+<Bagder>        kitsune: doing multiple opendir() before doing closedir()
+<Zagor> dwihno: the recorder is low prio right now
+<kitsune>       well, exactly what would the noticeable difference? ;p
+<Zagor> kitsune: we have more than one thread
+<dwihno>        Zagor: I'm just kidding. I know about the priorities
+*       kitsune forsees multiprocessor mp3 players ;p
+<kitsune>       powered by a car battery, just barely portable? ;p
+<kitsune>       nothing like a good ol fashioned compiler to spike up my load average
+<Zagor> muh, it's the linker script!
+<Zagor> baaaad linker script
+<Zagor> stack, heap and mp3 buf are all in the same location :)
+<dwihno>        ln -s $1 $2
+<dwihno>        there is a good linker stuff ;D
+<Zagor> yesssss, now we have sound playback working IN THE APPLICATION
+<Zagor> we are *close*
+<dwihno>        :O
+*       dwihno is <----------- this ----------> impressed!
+<dwihno>        You rules! :D
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      in current cvs? heh
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: yup, linus is checking in the last fix now (gdb.lcd and app.lds)
+<PsycoXul>      woo
+<kitsune>       hmm, 4 AM
+<kitsune>       close to 1.0?
+<Zagor> kitsune: very
+<dwihno>        :D
+<kitsune>       well, version numbers are fairly irrelevent ;p
+<Zagor> indeed :)
+<kitsune>       considering slack's jump from 4 to 7
+<dwihno>        :)
+<dwihno>        That's what happens when you give into the group pressure ;)
+<kitsune>       heh
+<kitsune>       or get tired of getting e-mails "Is this Linux 7?"
+<dwihno>        :)
+*       kitsune finishes building evil cross compiling gcc
+<kitsune>       I should setup a 68k one too :P
+<dwihno>        :)
+<dwihno>        cross compilers are sexy
+<kitsune>       it'd be kind of cool to get Linux working on a mac plus
+<kitsune>       have a nice logging box :P
+<kitsune>       that'd be it.
+<kitsune>       slightly more legal than the MacBong
+<kitsune>       more humane than the MacAquarium
+<PsycoXul>       /usr/sh1/lib/gcc-lib/sh-elf/3.0.3/../../../../sh-elf/bin/ld: section .pad [000000000900c800 -> 000000000900c803] overlaps section .stack [000000000900b840 -> 000000000901383f]
+<kitsune>       yay, clock skew
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: yeah, more fixes coming :)
+<kitsune>       x11 uisimulator works.
+<kitsune>       pretty l33t.
+<Bagder>        wooo
+<Bagder>        ;-)
+<kitsune>       heh, yeah, what can I say, I barely remember my C
+<Bagder>        time to freshen up! ;-)
+<kitsune>       Yeah
+<kitsune>       I've got to uh, remaster some asm
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        if you stay in apps, you can safely go with C only
+<kitsune>       heh.
+<kitsune>       I want REALLY small stuff, though
+<kitsune>       so asm would be an amusing way to go.
+<kitsune>       sick, masocistic, unportable. amusing
+*       PsycoXul will add a text file reader for the player soon
+<kitsune>       hah. Keep a list of phone numbers or something ;p
+<PsycoXul>      well write one anyways, i dunno if you guys would want my version of one :p
+<PsycoXul>      kitsune: nah, to read books :p
+<Bagder>        sure we do!
+<kitsune>       ... I prefer my books in a paper format
+<kitsune>       in case I'm ever in some bind and I need something to burn.
+<PsycoXul>      i don't have all my books in a paper format
+<PsycoXul>      and besides
+<PsycoXul>      this bookreader has a backlight! :p
+<kitsune>       true
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<kitsune>       with accompanying theme music
+<Bagder>        and it plays music
+<kitsune>       what is not to love.
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<PsycoXul>      and its the size of 1 book but can hold many 
+<PsycoXul>      so yeah hmm
+<kitsune>       a small book
+<kitsune>       a very small book :p
+<PsycoXul>      does the app currently let you browse around while a songs playing?
+<kitsune>       which app?
+<kitsune>       archo's firmware does.
+<PsycoXul>      no
+<Bagder>        PsycoXul: that's the general idea at least
+<PsycoXul>      the rockbox one
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<kitsune>       ah
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: yup
+<kitsune>       It should :p
+<PsycoXul>      ok will it work now?
+<kitsune>       I liked the rather limited queue function in the archos firmware.
+<Zagor> it first displays id3 info, press stop and you will get back to browsing
+<kitsune>       It'd be neat to see that expanded.
+<Zagor> Bagder: could you rewrite getsonglength() to read blocks instead of single bytes?
+<PsycoXul>      UIE68 at 0900442E
+<Bagder>        I could take a dive into it, sure
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: oooh
+<Zagor> are you using the pure cvs code? no funny stuff of your own?
+<PsycoXul>      yep
+<Zagor> strange
+<Zagor> when did you get it? immediately?
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<kitsune>       jwahaha, now I've got myself a nice little firmware compiled.
+<kitsune>       easier than I thought :P
+*       kitsune thanks linus greatly for his instructions
+<Bagder>        yeah, they're great
+*       Zagor is browsing and playing songs on his rockbox. Niiiiice.
+<dwihno>        Cool
+<Bagder>        rocking
+<Zagor> you can't stop playback yet :)
+<dwihno>        haha
+<dwihno>        good feature :)
+<Linus> We have problems with several threads using the file API though...
+<Zagor> the show MUST go on ;)
+<Zagor> yup. anyone not going to lunch now, inspect file.c :)
+<kitsune>       uh oh
+<kitsune>       UIE68 at 0906FA02
+<Linus> I know what it is
+<kitsune>       heh
+<Linus> UIE68 is the Rx interrupt for the serial port
+<kitsune>       good, 'cuz I don't.
+<Linus> The remote control
+<Zagor> we don't get it since we're using serial gdb...
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<dwihno>        *knapra banan och lyssna på dance-beats*
+<kitsune>       eh?
+<Linus> kitsune: remove the debug_init() call
+<Linus> We forgot to #ifdef DEBUG it
+<kitsune>       good sir, where would I find that? ;p
+<Linus> main.c
+<Linus> in apps
+<Linus> or cvs update in 30 seconds
+<Zagor> patch checked in now
+<Linus> Zagor is committing as we speak
+<kitsune>       joy, done
+<dwihno>        Zagor is quite fast when it comes to patching stuff
+<Zagor> also check out the new id3.c
+<Zagor> i've commented out getsonglength() since we have a problem with that at the moment
+<Bagder>        why is the byte-reading a problem?
+<Zagor> i don't know, but it doesn't work
+<Zagor> it never completes. could be a file.c problem
+<Bagder>        it seems to indicate a read() problem
+<Zagor> apps/play.c updated too now :)
+<Zagor> *NOW* it should work :)
+<kitsune>       all this movement and updating
+<dwihno>        how many CVS-updates are commenced every day? :)
+<Zagor> varies. from 0 to 50 :)
+<kitsune>       heh.
+<kitsune>       manic depressive cycle
+<Bagder>        we're at about 550 cvs mail totally
+<Bagder>        mails
+*       kitsune doesn't even bother testing now :P
+<kitsune>       no chance.
+<Linus> the CHECKSYNC macro fails
+<Zagor> project statistics: http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/?group_id=44306
+<kitsune>       crap
+<Bagder>        Linus: ok
+<Linus> we should try to declare the header variable unsigned
+<Bagder>        yeah, it might very well be it
+<Linus> It's awfully inefficient, shifting stuff bach and forth like that
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<kitsune>       well, that serial port problem is haunting me.
+<Linus> But it might very well be the file code as well
+<PsycoXul>      UIE68 at 090036D4
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<Linus> kitsune: even with the new code?
+<kitsune>       it is almost like a vestigial error light
+<kitsune>       yeah
+<Linus> Ok try this:
+<Bagder>        Linus: most mp3 tunes only read one byte and thus do the CHECKSYNC macro only once
+<kitsune>       "get pillow. go to sleep"
+<Linus> before the init call in main.c:
+<dwihno>        I need a pillow to rest my feet on
+<Linus> IPRE &= 0x0fff;
+<dwihno>        it's quite uncomfortable to have the feet on the desk
+<kitsune>       and that is?
+<Linus> We must debug it in target...
+<Linus> kitsune: that disables the SCI1 interrupt
+<kitsune>       ah
+<kitsune>       whatever that is.
+<kitsune>       consider me close to the end user
+<kitsune>       :p
+<kitsune>       just a very bored one.
+<Linus> Bagder: We must debug the songlength code in target...
+<Bagder>        ues
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        would help a lot
+<Linus> Bagder: I'll do that after lunch
+<PsycoXul>      ROCKbox!
+<Bagder>        r0ck
+<Linus> PsycoXul: C00000000L!
+<PsycoXul>      woo
+<PsycoXul>      it plays too
+<PsycoXul>      but i don't get the id3 info thats there
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      menu doesn't scroll down
+<Zagor> no there's some problem with the menu. it works in the simulator but not in target for some reason
+<Zagor> does sound settings work? try the menu button
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|pizza
+---     Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
+<PsycoXul>      well the volume works
+<PsycoXul>      bass works
+<Linus|pizza>   Please comment on the volume/bass/treble levels
+<PsycoXul>      and it doesn't clip like archos' firmware's bass controlls do
+<Linus|pizza>   Does it?
+<PsycoXul>      at least not on this song
+<Linus|pizza>   I went through some trouble to make it clip-free
+<dwihno>        Bra jobbat Linus!
+<dwihno>        well done
+<PsycoXul>      sounds good
+<Linus|pizza>   at the expense of a possibly too low volume
+<PsycoXul>      though this song just stopped in the middle
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Linus|pizza>   oh
+<dwihno>        :)
+*       Linus|pizza runs
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<dwihno>        Linus|pizza: Is the volume control better on the rockbox firmware? I mean, sometmies the lowest setting is to loud :)
+<PsycoXul>      huh?
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<kitsune>       well, I'm haunted by the serial port thing.
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<PsycoXul>      that fix he said works for me
+<kitsune>       yeah, in main.c, exactly where do you stick it?
+<PsycoXul>      he said
+<PsycoXul>      <Linus> before the init call in main.c:
+<kitsune>       before the first call of init
+<PsycoXul>      <Linus> IPRE &= 0x0fff;
+<kitsune>       line number? ;)
+<PsycoXul>      there's only 1 place init() gets called
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      in main
+<PsycoXul>      main(void)
+<kitsune>       82, in that vicinity
+<PsycoXul>      {
+<PsycoXul>       here.
+<PsycoXul>       init();
+<kitsune>       yeah
+<PsycoXul>      etc
+<kitsune>       I guessed that.
+<PsycoXul>      so heh
+<kitsune>       let's pray to finagle :P
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      hey that time made it through most of the song
+<kitsune>       the universe is trying to kill me.
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<PsycoXul>      but its locked up
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<kitsune>       heh, fun
+<kitsune>       UIE09
+<kitsune>       at blah
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<kitsune>       wow, it is morning
+<kitsune>       Whilst I'm still concious I'll take a photo :P
+<dwihno>        Take some photos from the interface
+<dwihno>        I'd love to see it
+<PsycoXul>      see what?
+<kitsune>       from the what?
+<dwihno>        rockbox interface
+<PsycoXul>      what interface?
+<PsycoXul>      its a -
+<kitsune>       haha, alright
+<PsycoXul>      that moves around
+<PsycoXul>      :p
+<PsycoXul>      otherwise its files, menu options, or whatever it is 
+<PsycoXul>      and thats pretty much it :p
+<PsycoXul>      the interface is the LCD and buttons :p
+<dwihno>        THE LCD THEN! :)
+<dwihno>        ME WANNA SEE! :)
+<kitsune>       yeah, I got one of the 'new interface'
+<dwihno>        :D
+<dwihno>        I'd love to see! :D
+<dwihno>        fix several! :D
+<dwihno>        :D
+<dwihno>        :)~~~~
+<kitsune>       http://rei.damnsw.net/~adam/stuff/
+<kitsune>       mornin?.jpg and interface.jpg
+<dwihno>        heh
+<dwihno>        interface ownz :)
+<kitsune>       I like the flashing red error :p
+<dwihno>        your car?
+<kitsune>       heh, yeh
+<dwihno>        sexy :)
+<kitsune>       indeed.
+<kitsune>       scare small children and elderly women.
+<kitsune>       at once!
+<kitsune>       tired...
+<dwihno>        :)
+<kitsune>       I suspect by the time I wake up, there will be a version 1, and if not, there should be.
+<dwihno>        You crazy dude! :)
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<kitsune>       heh, caffeine is good for ye.
+<dwihno>        kitsune: you are crazy! LOCO! :D
+<kitsune>       there isn't much to be done today
+<kitsune>       so I'm fine.
+<PsycoXul>      so which volume/bass/treble does the sound menu control now, the mas or the dac's
+<dwihno>        kitsune: why are you up this early?
+<dwihno>        (early/late)
+<kitsune>       The caffiene demons got me.
+<dwihno>        Good :)
+<dwihno>        Caffeine is your friend
+<dwihno>        Damn coworkers, they got McD lunch
+<dwihno>        Well, they get fat, and I'll stay slim and fit ;D
+*       kitsune imagines dwihno over a bottle of wine and some shrimp cocktail
+<dwihno>        haha
+<dwihno>        I hate shrimps
+<dwihno>        They have this scary look
+<kitsune>       heh.
+<kitsune>       They're little harmless things
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<dwihno>        No way!
+<dwihno>        They look all innocent and stuff, but they are PURE EVIL!
+<PsycoXul>      heh if you take out the spindown in ata_init() it boots a lot faster but it never spins down heh
+<kitsune>       heh
+<kitsune>       that is one area I'd like to have some influence over
+<kitsune>       just how the hard drive behaves.
+<kitsune>       since it seems to misbehave, alot.
+<dwihno>        it does?
+<dwihno>        Tell me about it! On the recorder, you get the "ata: -2" error .)
+<kitsune>       yeah, it seems alot slower than it could be, seeking through tracks, etc
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<kitsune>       I suppose if I felt like it I could get myself a new hard drive :P
+<dwihno>        :)
+<kitsune>       I cannot recall which ones were recommended
+<dwihno>        You can replace the disk without any hassle?
+<kitsune>       uh
+<dwihno>        I mean, let's say I install a 40 gig disk, that would work?
+<kitsune>       yeah
+<kitsune>       for all intensive purposes, it should
+<kitsune>       as long as it is the same size, etc
+<dwihno>        yeah
+<kitsune>       physically, at least.
+<dwihno>        how about power consumption?
+<kitsune>       oh, I don't care about that, hell, it could even be less ;p
+<dwihno>        I haven't had a look inside my recorder, but I guess the disks are some kind of low power stuff...
+<kitsune>       heh
+<kitsune>       the big overkill is it is like trying to suck a bathtub dry with a straw
+<kitsune>       there is a huge bottleneck with USB
+<PsycoXul>      they're 9.5mm laptop drives
+<dwihno>        There is this sticker saying "remove this, and your warranty goes to /dev/null" :)
+<kitsune>       heh
+<dwihno>        PsycoXul: how about power usage?
+<kitsune>       where was that?
+<kitsune>       my warranty is already gone :P
+<PsycoXul>      what about it? they're made for laptops so 
+<dwihno>        :)
+<kitsune>       there isn't a serial number on the back of mine :p
+<dwihno>        evil
+<dwihno>        time for some lunch quake .)
+<kitsune>       it is my second one, the first one died horribly
+<kitsune>       LCD, at least.
+<kitsune>       how exactly does this tetris work?
+<kitsune>       hmm, mini CD mp3 player
+<kitsune>       funky
+---     Linus|pizza is now known as Linus
+<kitsune>       hola
+---     Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor
+<Zagor> dwihno: the disks are standard laptop drives, no low-power special doodaas
+<kitsune>       heh, UIE09 at 35B40900
+<kitsune>       fun
+<Linus> wow
+<Linus> what did you do?
+<kitsune>       I simply applied the change to main.c
+<Linus> ouch
+<kitsune>       it could be that I'm using new versions of binutils, gcc, etc
+<Linus> how new?
+<kitsune>       uh, the newest ones on ftp.gnu.org
+<Linus> 3.1?
+<kitsune>       yeah
+<kitsune>       shall I go back a bit?
+<Linus> I don't think so
+<kitsune>       hmm
+<kitsune>       well, as an acolyte of murphy, I'll make sure everything that can possibly go wrong will.
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|meeting
+<dwihno>        meeting sucks
+---     Linus|meeting is now known as Linus
+<Linus> short meeting :-)
+<dwihno>        :D
+<dwihno>        Meetings should be kept short! :)
+<Bagder>        Zagor: what about adding a file named 'FILES' or something in each CVS module root that specify which files that should go into release tarballs?
+<Bagder>        it should support whildcards, like *.[ch] etc
+<Linus> Zagor is in a meeting
+<Bagder>        then you may state your opinion ;-)
+<Bagder>        I want to be able to script releases
+<Linus> We must have a file list of some kind
+<dwihno>        scripts rules!
+<Linus> so FILES is as good as anything
+<Zagor> Bagder: not a bad idea
+<--     kitsune has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<Bagder>        why do we use both .S and .s?
+<Linus> We don't
+<Bagder>        in firmware both are used
+<Linus> where?
+<Bagder>        crt0.S
+<Bagder>        start.s
+<Linus> start.s os obsolete
+<Linus> kill it
+*       Bagder kills
+<Linus> .S means preprocess, .s means don't, BTW
+<Linus> if you assemble with the gcc frontend
+<Bagder>        cool
+<Bagder>        tarball gets 146023 bytes big
+<Bagder>        seems to work
+<Bagder>        funny spam of today:
+<Bagder>        "Dear Sir/Madam, We are looking to buy waste paper of different types" ... :-)
+<Zagor> haha. i got one of those nigeria scams
+<Bagder>        I like those
+<Bagder>        the weird thing is people actually belive them
+<dwihno>        :D
+<dwihno>        What?!
+<dwihno>        You mean they are FAKE?!
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<dwihno>        They promised me lots of cash if I sent some to them! :)
+<dwihno>        We get signal
+<dwihno>        How are you gentlemen?
+<dwihno>        All your base are belong to us!
+<Linus> Bagder: why does the id3 code use lseek() to find out the file size?
+<Bagder>        how else?
+<Linus> The file size is returned in the dirent struct
+<Bagder>        afaik, there is no other way but opendir()
+<Bagder>        and you want it to opendir() and find itself?
+<dwihno>        hm
+<Linus> I am silly
+<dwihno>        ><))))8> <-- now that's sill-y ;)
+<Bagder>        it could get the file size passed in
+<Bagder>        but it seems like a weird api
+<Linus> indeed.
+<Linus> forget it
+*       Bagder forgets
+<Linus> Bagder: how long can an id3v2 tag be, in general?
+<Bagder>        I don't really know
+<Linus> 100 bytes 2k?
+<Linus> or what?
+<Bagder>        lemme check
+<dwihno>        I think there are no limits
+<Linus> I know. But in general, they shouldn't be more than a few hundred bytes, right?
+<dwihno>        nah
+<dwihno>        A couple of hundred bytes is more than sufficien
+<dwihno>        t
+<Bagder>        Zagor: /home/dast/rockbox-build/daily-build now contains daily builds of the rockbox tarball
+<Zagor> neato
+<Zagor> all versions?
+<Bagder>        full archive
+<Zagor> ah the tarball
+<Bagder>        full source that is
+<Bagder>        I'll make automated archos.mod files too, but I need to get the sh tools up there first
+<Zagor> they're already installed. /usr/local/sh-gcc
+<Bagder>        cool
+<Bagder>        then consider me on the case
+<Zagor> goodie
+<Bagder>        feel free to check the tarball out to see if I've missed any important files
+<Bagder>        Zagor: I figured you could make a symbolic link from some properly named directory in the rockbox web tree
+<Zagor> yep, will do.
+<Zagor> the archive looks ok
+<Bagder>        goodie
+<Zagor> lseek() bugs, it turns out
+<Bagder>        aha
+<Zagor> i expected the SEEK_END argument to be positive, but it's not
+<Linus> And I found an error in the getsonglength() function
+<Bagder>        coolers
+<Zagor> that's why so many id3 tags couldn't be found
+<Linus> Zagor speaks about the lseek(9 bug
+<Zagor> yup
+<Bagder>        yeah, that's quite a difference ;-)
+<Zagor> 2002-05-27: All v1.0 code is written. We are now entering debug phase.
+<Bagder>        yay!
+<dwihno>        YAY!
+<dwihno>        Now let's party like it's 1999 ;D
+-->     ironi (irony@pcb322-03.ihh-stud.hj.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        g'day ironi
+<ironi> heya
+<ironi> i saw the webpage update
+<ironi> nice
+<Zagor> yeah, not quite as you did it but a lot better than before :)
+<ironi> yeah for sure
+<ironi> you should perhaps have a border=0 on the link to the small logo
+<Bagder>        ok, daily archos.mod files are now build too
+<ironi> it has a blue frame
+<Zagor> ah, right. fixing.
+<Zagor> there
+<ironi> better =)
+<ironi> Bagder: where are they
+<Zagor> Bagder: coolers
+<Zagor> ironi: i'll fix webpage links
+<Bagder>        I'm waiting for Zagor to setup the link
+<ironi> oh ok
+<ironi> cool
+<ironi> =)
+<Zagor> Bagder: when does your cronjob fire?
+<ironi> so the first version can navigate among songs and play and stop them
+<ironi> correct?
+<Bagder>        1am our time
+<Zagor> ironi: no stopping yet :)
+<ironi> Zagor: hehe
+<Zagor> Bagder: do it later IMHO, like 5
+<Zagor> 1am we might still be working
+<Bagder>        sure
+<Bagder>        6 am then ;-)
+<Zagor> good
+<Bagder>        before we get to work ;-)
+<Bagder>        I cvs update, build tarball, then build three target archos.mod files
+<Zagor> sounds right
+<ironi> where is the link going to be
+<ironi> on the front page?
+<ironi> or a download-section
+<Zagor> front page and on cvs page
+<Bagder>        we should post it to the mailing list too
+<Zagor> a download page will be for "official versions"
+<ironi> Zagor: sounds reasonable
+<ironi> Zagor: v1.0 is official, right?
+<Zagor> yep
+<ironi> this is so cool
+<ironi> cant wait to post it on coolmp3players.com
+<ironi> oh
+<ironi> is it down
+<Zagor> haha
+<Zagor> we're not done yet, so don't post now
+<ironi> is coolmp3players down?
+<Zagor> I don't know, i'm not there very often
+<Bagder>        coolmp3players.com is alive
+<Bagder>        when I ping it
+<ironi> This Domain is parked by Keshet Internet Services
+<dwihno>        This Domain is parked by Keshet Internet Services
+<ironi> :/
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<ironi> well
+<ironi> i would love www.rockbox.org btw
+<ironi> but it is taken
+<ironi> rockboxplayer.org perhaps
+<Zagor> rockbox.org isn't really taken, it's available from 123-reg.co.uk
+<Zagor> £2.59 per year doesn't sound too bad
+<Zagor> i was wrong, it is taken
+<Zagor> it's just not in use
+<ironi> ok
+<ironi> i see
+<ironi> wow
+<ironi> 123-reg is cheap
+<Zagor> rockbox.org is registered by "Lasting Impressons, UK"
+<Zagor> rockbox.net by one Sina Kermani, US
+<Zagor> both .net and .org are unused. what a coincidence...
+-->     kitsune (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<ironi> co.uk is only for companies ricght
+<Zagor> yes
+<ironi> too bad
+<ironi> very cheap, indeed
+<Zagor> well we don't want a .uk domain anyway
+<ironi> i was thinking for my own purposes
+<ironi> $15 is the cheapest i have seen on .com so far
+<ironi> well £9 is pretty much $15
+<ironi> www.godaddy.com
+<ironi> $9 =)
+-->     Linus- (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<--     Linus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<--     Linus- (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<ironi> *yawn*
+<ironi> done yet? =)
+<Bagder>        now where's that daily-build link? ;-)
+<Zagor> coming, coming...
+<ironi> =)
+<ironi> wow i have waited for
+<ironi> this
+<ironi> hey is the api docs availale anywhere
+<ironi> sorry
+<ironi> i found it
+<Bagder>        they're not very detailed
+<Bagder>        we could use a hand on that
+<ironi> I would love to help but since I don't have the information on what all of them are, I can't do much
+<Bagder>        many of them are POSIX look-alikes
+<ironi> ok
+<ironi> *looks up POSIX in google..*
+<ironi> =)
+<Bagder>        and you can check out the code in apps, as it all uses the different APIs we have
+<Bagder>        code is always the best docs ;-)
+<ironi> yea if its commente dlike linu does it i oculd do it
+<ironi> list_insert_before(reference node, The node to insert)  - Insert a LIST_NODE in a list before another node in a LIST.
+<ironi> like that
+<ironi> nothing hard
+<ironi> ut when it's not commented, it would take me a lot longer =)
+<Bagder>        right
+<Bagder>        we should comment the code like that
+<ironi> like linus does in the list code
+<Bagder>        we should all be like Linus
+<Bagder>        ;-)
+<ironi> i2c_read(address, buf, count) - Read something from something
+<ironi> that what i can get out of that
+<ironi> =)
+<Zagor> still, just adding that function to the docs tells a lot
+<ironi> i see
+<Linus> What API are we documenting?
+<Bagder>        we should document them all
+<ironi> Zagor: true
+<Zagor> good point. i2c doesn't need to be documented, it's not part of the api
+<Bagder>        at least all for the apps
+<Linus> But it may need documenting anyway...
+<ironi> Zagor: what is part of the api
+<ironi> i could go trough it and make a list of all the functions
+<Zagor> ironi: everything the apps/ code acalls
+<ironi> ok
+<ironi> so all the .c and .h files in the apps dir?
+<Zagor> check what they call, yes
+<ironi> I can do that if you want me to. I can give it a try,a t least
+<Zagor> good
+<ironi> It can be good for me to put myself into it a bit
+<ironi> =)
+<Zagor> yup
+<ironi> cool
+<ironi> I'll get on it in an hour
+<ironi> If I manage to get it so that even I can understand, then I think it will be a good API doc
+<ironi> =)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<ironi> Bagder: thanks for answering the survey
+<Bagder>        np
+<ironi> I realize the last question was a bit strange
+<ironi> but we were basing the interview on a paper that claimed that to be one of the main motives (i.e. publishing the names)
+<ironi> I thought that sounded funny so I wanted comments on it
+<ironi> I mean, to use that in commercial projects
+<Bagder>        I realized that
+<ironi> Zagor: i really had use of the presentation you have me the link to, by the BCG
+<ironi> Zagor: the model of how open source work is done is great
+<Zagor> that was bagder :)
+<ironi> im describing it form 3 perspectives, structure, processes and boundaries
+<ironi> oh it was?
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<ironi> ok *ehm*
+<ironi> Bagder thanks
+<Bagder>        I was one of the 12 or something swedish persons participating in it
+<ironi> i mean structure is obvious, its virtual teams cooperating...processes is also obvious, it is well defiens in the model
+<Zagor> i did too
+<Bagder>        hehe, that's cool
+<Bagder>        haxx!
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<Zagor> yup
+<ironi> but boundaries....im thinking if i could say that an OS project is limited by its participants
+<Zagor> ironi: yeah, but define "participants". users are a big part of all projects
+<ironi> there are no real predefined boundaries like in "normal" organisations
+<ironi> Zagor: true
+<ironi> by the active participants then
+<Bagder>        in open source, the boundary between developers and users often get blurry
+<ironi> true
+<ironi> thats why i'm saying that the only boundaries, i.e. where the os project group ends and the rest of the world begins, is the active participants
+<Bagder>        right
+<ironi> =)
+<ironi> you should read my paper
+<Bagder>        I'd like to
+<Zagor> maybe we should keep the daily .mods, at least a while.
+<Zagor> oh, we do. never mind me... ;)
+<Bagder>        I don't even have a removal system yet ;-)
+<Zagor> http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/daily.shtml
+<Bagder>        neato
+<Linus> I would say that it is pretty early to present daily builds...
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Zagor> "Release early, release often"
+<Bagder>        ;-)
+<Bagder>        but we want to have early users too
+<Bagder>        kamikaze ones ;-)
+<Bagder>        lots of people just await getting something to put on their archos, now they can have it
+<ironi> i am kamikaze
+<Zagor> i'd say dwihno is the winner in the kamikaze contest so far :)
+<Bagder>        hehe, he is
+<Bagder>        he's in the lead
+<ironi> hehe
+<ironi> true, true
+<ironi> if i jump off a building with my rockbox, i'll beat you
+<ironi> andmyself :-P
+<Bagder>        just make sure that the Archos is visible on the pictures they take of you afterwards
+<Bagder>        ;-)
+<ironi> hehe
+<ironi> I had a little project going, trying to boot linux of the archos (with a boot floppy)
+<ironi> i never managed to make it work though, the damn player could not be faound
+<ironi> :(
+<ironi> I compiled support for it in the boot disk kernel
+<ironi> and did everything right....well I guess it was harder than I tohught
+<ironi> figured it could be useful for ppl that have fast access in school etc, and want to download stuff nad then bring it home
+<Zagor> ironi: there's a known problem booting off an usb disk, you need to increase a timeout somewhere. search the linux-usb mailing list
+<ironi> Zagor: ah ok
+<ironi> =)
+<ironi> maybe I'll give it another try
+<ironi> i was thinking of putting a umsdos dist, like zipslack, so that the disk doens't have to be partitioned
+<ironi> bbl
+<--     ironi has quit ("moh <k!15b8>")
+<Bagder>        I'm off for today
+<Bagder>        see ya around
+<Zagor> ok, bye
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+---     dwihno is now known as dw|GONE
+<--     kitsune has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<PsycoXul>      hmm weird
+<PsycoXul>      the browser's not showing a dir
+<Zagor> hum=
+<Zagor> ?
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      i've got this dir 'Misc-junk' on here and its not showing it
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      it shows it named 'Pilots.m3u'
+<PsycoXul>      and it shows 'Beck' named 'Ozzy.m3u.m' and i dunno what else
+<Zagor> odd
+-->     ironi (ironi@as2-5-7.j.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<ironi> I like living on the edge, yeah
+<ironi> yeah
+<ironi> :)
+<Zagor> hehe
+<ironi> *power on*
+<ironi> eh?
+<ironi> -MP3BITCH
+<ironi> EFL1 q   r
+<ironi> thats my display
+<Linus> so?
+<Linus> :-)
+<Zagor> do you have a catalog called MP3BITCH* ?
+<Linus> Or are you one?
+<ironi> no the drive is called that
+<ironi> i named it that in windows
+<Zagor> oh, looks like a bad bug then
+<ironi> but what is EFL1 q  r
+<Zagor> random junk from some randomly read sector, I'd guess :)
+<ironi> ok
+<ironi> so in it there is a divx folder
+<PsycoXul>      yeah i get my volume label showing up as the first 'file' too
+<ironi> but the div....wait
+<ironi> lemme connect it again
+<ironi> wohooo
+<ironi> i like this
+<ironi> its already better
+<ironi> wow
+<ironi> its first now i see what great work you guys have done
+<Zagor> uh yeah, the volume label is a directory entry...
+<Linus> Major crash?
+<Zagor> i must filter it a bit :)
+<ironi> Zagor: hehe
+<ironi> also it owuld be cool to filter everything that is not mp3
+<ironi> or maybe have a toggle :-P
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      Maybe have a toggle
+<Zagor> nag nag :)
+<PsycoXul>      but 
+<PsycoXul>      i'd rather see all my files
+<PsycoXul>      i just keep them organized anyways
+<ironi> well
+<Zagor> a toggle is good
+<ironi> yeee i win
+<ironi> :-P
+<PsycoXul>      there's no non-mp3 files besides playlists or album-informative filenames anywhere that i have mp3 files
+<ironi> jeez
+<PsycoXul>      but besides that, other files can be handled too
+<ironi> ok it was a windows recycled folder
+<ironi> or not
+<PsycoXul>      like text files
+<ironi> i have a folder called Ztuff
+<PsycoXul>      at least in theory :p
+<PsycoXul>      my text viewing code isn't working :/
+<ironi> nope
+<ironi> the folder called EFL1 q  r is supposed to be called Ztuff
+<ironi> funny
+<ironi> also, a convenient thing would be that the scroll loops
+<Zagor> well there is no scroll at the momenet
+<ironi> so that i dont have to go back but just keep on scrolling down
+<ironi> i mean +/-
+<Zagor> ah you mean the dirlist
+<ironi> yeah sorry
+<PsycoXul>      yeah the dir list needs to be read into memory and sorted too :p
+<Zagor> yup
+<ironi> well this is so cool
+<ironi> i already like this UI more than the original archos one
+<Zagor> haha
+<PsycoXul>      spinning the disk the whole time you browse isn't that cool :p
+<ironi> i wonder whether archos knows about this project
+<PsycoXul>      but yeah
+<ironi> show_credits(); is indeed a very important fnction
+<Zagor> haha
+<PsycoXul>      hmm damnit...
+<PsycoXul>      still not working...
+<ironi> lalala
+<PsycoXul>      oh well i'll mess with it later
+<ironi> is there any way i can get the files and build the mod in windows?
+<ironi> i guess there is but im looking for the easiest one
+<Zagor> ironi: it should be the same as building for linux.
+<Zagor> except everything is more painful in windows
+<ironi> hehe
+<ironi> well i do have alinux box here too
+<ironi> http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/sh-win/
+<ironi> shouldn't there be a actual page?
+<Zagor> oops :)
+<Zagor> reload
+*       ironi is gone, autoaway/10m [l/on p/on]
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<Zagor> gotta go. bye!
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     kitsune (~adam@24.118.162.179) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Moufle (~moof@195.101.176.125) has joined #rockbox
+<--     kitsune has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<--     ironi has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<Moufle>        hi
+<Moufle>        I just tried the daily release on my 20g recorder and it says ata : -4
+<--     Moufle has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+-->     kitsune (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<kitsune>       machinae supremacy - hero
+<kitsune>       http://www.penismightier.com/fenomas/japan.html
+-->     ironi (ironi@as2-5-7.j.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<--     kitsune has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     kitsune (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<--     kitsune has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     huevo5050 (jander@158.Red-80-33-33.pooles.rima-tde.net) has joined #rockbox
+<huevo5050>     hello you know the UIE68 at 090036D0????????????????????
+<huevo5050>     its appears me always when i power on. Always except the first time that permit me to navigate a bit...
+<huevo5050>     hellooooo....
+<huevo5050>     ???¿¿¿
+<--     huevo5050 has quit (" IRcap 7.1  http://www.ircap.com !")
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<adi|home>      why do ppl come in... list a prob.. then leave?
+-->     Smari (~spm@217.151.174.205) has joined #rockbox
+<PsycoXul>      i dunno
+<--     Smari has quit ("We all live in a yellow subroutine..")
+---     dw|GONE is now known as dwihno
+<dwihno>        Good morning
+<ironi> mornin
+<ironi> i just came home from work
+<dwihno>        All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
+<ironi> hm
+<dwihno>        <-- is looking for a laptop
+<dwihno>        I'm probably gonna buy myself a new one
+<dwihno>        But I don't know which
+<dwihno>        Help me out on this one ;D
+<ironi> i like dell latitude
+<dwihno>        What's the hardware configuration?
+<dwihno>        I'd like to be able to use 3D-stuff on it :)
+<ironi> well I don't know...depends
+<ironi> i just like dell latitude in general
+<dwihno>        Ah, okay
+<dwihno>        My friend has a dell lattitude something... Rather cute and good performance-wise...
+<dwihno>        I just don't know if I want a p4 or piii processor...
+<dwihno>        I mean, I'm accustomed to a AMD 800 with 512 megs of RAM
+<dwihno>        (and a rather decent 3d-card)
+<ironi> i see
+<ironi> i wish i chad resources ot by myself a brand new laptop :/
+<dwihno>        I sold my workstation
+<dwihno>        And I'm probably gonna sell my other computer too
+<dwihno>        I've passed the "I wanna play games" stage, so I just want a kickass development box
+<dwihno>        which I can carry around
+<ironi> dwihno: I feel pretty much the same
+<ironi> well I dolove GTA3 though
+<ironi> :-P
+<dwihno>        heh
+<dwihno>        I want to be able to spank my friends in a game of Q3 every once in a while ;)
+<dwihno>        without no shitty software rendering stuff
+<ironi> well there is nvidia cards for laptops
+<dwihno>        I guess 256 megs of RAM might be sufficent
+<dwihno>        My current workstation has a celeron 733, 256 megs of RAM, and it's quite OK
+<dwihno>        Sometimes it gets slow when I run too many applications at once, but that's not too often
+<ironi> http://www.euro.dell.com/countries/se/sve/bsd/products/model_latit_latit_c840.htm
+<ironi> that is a very very mean machine
+<ironi> but very very expensive too
+<ironi> 64 mb geforce 4 =)
+<dwihno>        a bit expensive :)
+<dwihno>        I guess the pricing range is >24 000 SEK
+<dwihno>        But no more! :)
+<dwihno>        (including VAT and taxes)
+<ironi> http://www.euro.dell.com/countries/se/sve/dhs/products/model_inspn_inspn_2650.htm
+<ironi> maybe that one
+<ironi> i think dell in general is a good choice
+<ironi> its not very expensive for what you get
+<dwihno>        hm
+<dwihno>        true
+<ironi> comparing to ex. compaq evo
+<dwihno>        I'm gonna try to configure it
+<dwihno>        hm
+<dwihno>        Nice price, yup
+<dwihno>        Even with 256 megs of RAM
+<ironi> it is, isn't it.
+<dwihno>        yup
+<dwihno>        Is 14" and 15.1" a big diff?
+<ironi> well 2.7 cm diagonally
+<ironi> you decide
+<dwihno>        that's a bunch
+<dwihno>        hm
+<ironi> :)
+<ironi> question is if its worth a lot
+<dwihno>        yeah
+<dwihno>        As long as it does 1024x768 ;)
+<ironi> it does for sure
+<ironi> if not more
+<dwihno>        What would you choose - a free DVD or a free CD-RW thingy?
+<ironi> well are you going to watch dvd's or burn cd's?
+<ironi> =)
+<dwihno>        I once saw a DVD disc at my friends' place ;)
+<dwihno>        Burn CD's, I presume ;)
+<ironi> its kinda cheap for being a p4 isnt it
+<dwihno>        Final price tag: 19,419
+<dwihno>        yeah
+<dwihno>        sure is
+<dwihno>        (that is, with 256 megs of RAM, and 16 geforce2-go card)
+<ironi> 21.929 isnt it?
+<dwihno>        hm
+<dwihno>        ah, missed the buttons ;)
+<dwihno>        being DDR memory too...
+<ironi> but you should be able to get it w/o ms works and windows xp
+<dwihno>        you think so?
+<ironi> well why wouldn't you, I mean if you are not going to use the crap
+<dwihno>        yeah
+<ironi> (or install your own free copy)
+<ironi> ms works, who uses that anyway
+<ironi> or xp home deition
+<dwihno>        I don't even use the office suite
+<dwihno>        DOCBOOK POWER! ;D
+<ironi> damn its a really nice price machine
+<ironi> gets me wondering if there is a catch anywhere
+<dwihno>        Dell has the advantage of selling their own computers
+<dwihno>        That makes it possible to lower the prices
+<dwihno>        I'd like to see some bigger images of the computer
+<ironi> true
+<ironi> hey did you check the 400:- on-line purchase rebate :-P
+<dwihno>        hehe
+<dwihno>        I will not purchase it before the 29th ;)
+<ironi> =)
+<ironi> well well
+<ironi> certainly a worthy candidate in your quest for a new laptop
+<dwihno>        help me to find some fullscreen images of the model please :)
+<dwihno>        (it must be cute!) :)
+<ironi> http://www.techtv.com/graphics/library/3381317.jpg
+<ironi> http://www.techtv.com/news/computing/story/0,24195,3382322,00.html
+<ironi> it says "disappointing performance"
+<dwihno>        it does?
+<ironi> http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,s=1565&a=25886,00.asp
+<dwihno>        hmm
+<dwihno>        well, you found the catch ;)
+<dwihno>        I'm just wondering how the display is handling lower resolutions
+<dwihno>        Let's say, 800x600, when I want to play FPS games...
+<dwihno>        Will it stretch the screen or just center the image?
+<dwihno>        I have to say I like having everything built-in
+<ironi> good question
+<dwihno>        At least, both floppy and CD reader thingy
+<ironi> but it can do 27 fps in 1024x768 in q3
+<ironi> it said in one report
+<ironi> of the ones i pasted
+<dwihno>        Yeah, but 27FPS is painfully slow! :)
+<ironi> is it? ok.
+<dwihno>        :)
+<ironi> well it is a laptop
+<ironi> =)
+<dwihno>        I think so
+<dwihno>        yeah
+<ironi> i thought the eye cant recognize anything over 25
+<ironi> but i am probably wrong
+<dwihno>        If you can live with the downsides, it's a great laptop
+<ironi> you get a lot for the money i believe
+<dwihno>        yeah
+<dwihno>        Too bad I'm not able to order it rightaway, that 400:- rebate would be nice ;)
+<dwihno>        But you still get to switch the CD-ROM for a DVD or CD-RW without an extra fee :)
+<dwihno>        I _WAS_ considering one of those "cappuchino PC's" as seen on thinkgeek.com
+<dwihno>        but it was a bit expensive considering what you get
+<ironi> well i have to sleep an hour before class
+<ironi> been up since 10 am yesterday
+<dwihno>        oof
+<ironi> except 1 hour of sleep between 20and 21
+<ironi> i worked 22-07
+<dwihno>        I slept between 18-24, and 01-05 :)
+<ironi> hehe
+<ironi> ok later
+*       ironi is gone, zzz [l/on p/on]
+<dwihno>        later
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<dwihno>        God morgon!
+<dwihno>        Guten morgen
+<dwihno>        Bienvenue!
+<Bagder>        morrn
+<dwihno>        :D
+<dwihno>        1 2 3 jobba jobba jobba! :)
+<Bagder>        the daily build didn't work quite as it should
+<Bagder>        now it does
+<dwihno>        on error goto 0 :_)
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<dwihno>        You can call me Mr. ASP
+<Bagder>        hah
+<dwihno>        But PLEASE, don't hate me! ;D
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+*       adam waves
+---     adam is now known as kitsune
+<Bagder>        hey
+<kitsune>       heya
+<dwihno>        aye!Q
+*       kitsune listens to some funky music
+<kitsune>       who brought up Machinae Supremacy?
+<Bagder>        Linus used that for his initial attempts on the mpeg code, I don't know how he found it
+<kitsune>       in any regard, I was supremely impressed by their mp3s :p
+<kitsune>       I also appreciated the ogg files ;p
+<kitsune>       amusing
+<dwihno>        GAYNEZSS!
+<dwihno>        DAMN ASP GAYNESS!
+<kitsune>       eh?
+<dwihno>        ASP is the pure evil gayness!
+<kitsune>       I'm spreading the music around my standard IRC channels :P
+<kitsune>       heh.
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<kitsune>       I use PHP myself.
+<Bagder>        dwihno: like we couldn't tell that even without looking at it! ;-)
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<dwihno>        It gave me some stupid exception on 0-size files
+<dwihno>        damn gayness ASP!
+<kitsune>       why can't debian use rsync for their apt setup
+<dwihno>        What's rsync?
+<kitsune>       it is a fairly cool system
+<dwihno>        I never learned what it is
+<Bagder>        its a file mirroring protocol/server thing
+<kitsune>       heh, rsync finds differences and mirrors
+<kitsune>       yeah
+<kitsune>       it is pretty efficient
+<dwihno>        smart
+<kitsune>       rather than replacing a whole file, I'd be selective.
+<Bagder>        rsync is cool indeed
+<kitsune>       I don't see what the disadvantage
+<kitsune>       perhaps CPU usage, but that is > than bandwidth
+-->     tina (Syxer@c-24-245-33-209.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<dwihno>        yeah
+<kitsune>       tina, you need to buy one of these jukebox things :P
+<tina>  oh?
+<Bagder>        kitsune: the only drawback would be that it uses a slightly less standard protocol
+<kitsune>       yeah
+<kitsune>       they rock
+<kitsune>       Bagder - hah, I suppose
+<kitsune>       Bagder - why not keep the old protocol around (ftp/http), and make (rsync) a special option
+<dwihno>        they rock - with the rockbox ;)
+<kitsune>       heh
+<kitsune>       I'll give rockbox alot more time before I use it as a full replacement
+<Bagder>        kitsune: right
+<dwihno>        Yeah, but it's fun to test
+<dwihno>        <-- was the FIRST to test it on the recorder ;D
+<kitsune>       heh
+<kitsune>       I don't see why anyone would want to use wavs on the thing :P
+<kitsune>       it is easy enough to encode them as mp3s, and they're smaller (which makes a differnece for people on dialup)
+<tina>  heh, dialup... I remember that nightmare
+<dwihno>        dialup is cool! :D
+<kitsune>       heh
+<kitsune>       I've had a hankering to install a modem in my box in my room
+<kitsune>       then I could dialup to it from anything :p
+<dwihno>        I remember using linux to share internet when I was a kid ;)
+<kitsune>       heh
+<dwihno>        (over a modem)
+<tina>  yeah... download an mp3... go take a shower... comeback... halfway done
+<kitsune>       nightmare
+<kitsune>       it shouldn't be that slow tina
+<kitsune>       I'll teach you how to use *nix someday :P
+<kitsune>       then you can make use of some automation
+<tina>  I had a crappy computer two
+<tina>  yey
+<tina>  *too
+<kitsune>       heh, Linux would be awesome on any old machine :P
+<kitsune>       I ran it on a Quadra 700, 25mhz Mac
+<Bagder>        RIAA sued audiagalaxy now, we'll see how much longer it'll be around
+<tina>  it wasn't that old
+<kitsune>       hah
+<kitsune>       Bagder - Oh well.
+<kitsune>       I never used AG
+<Bagder>        AG is just the best
+<kitsune>       ah
+<Bagder>        for mp3s
+<kitsune>       I think that is a problem with the current state of the american legal system
+<kitsune>       it is setting precedents that people in the future will regret.
+<kitsune>       :P
+<kitsune>       because it is new technology, and I highly doubt the recording industry understands just how useful it is.
+<dwihno>        Only 1337 people understands ;)
+<kitsune>       i.e. I learned about bands that I would of NEVER heard of through the Internet, while the radio/stores only can provide music to fit the tastes of the lowest common denominator
+<kitsune>       which, where I live, for my age group, consists of bad 'best of albums', nu-metal bands that are whinier than hell, etc.
+<kitsune>       As my Finnish bud Virtu would say, it is all part of American capitalistic imperialisn.
+<kitsune>       s/n/m/g
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<dwihno>        Virtulainen? Mustalaiset? Sillis?
+<kitsune>       eh?
+*       Bagder looks at dwihno
+<kitsune>       He lives in some place called Oulu, or something
+*       dwihno looks at his almighty socks
+<kitsune>       went to the university of Oulu, dealt in a project involving physical responses in virtual reality
+<kitsune>       socks of odor +2?
+<dwihno>        Hehe
+<dwihno>        they smell nice
+<tina>  heh
+<dwihno>        Like newly sprung roses
+<kitsune>       heh, Socks of Galadrial? ;p
+<dwihno>        <-- has excellent foot odor :D
+*       kitsune is in an Angband mood
+<kitsune>       that would be a sick game to port to a palmtop
+<dwihno>        angband?
+<kitsune>       and the guy who maintains the zangband packages for Debian hasn't updated them in a long time
+<kitsune>       yeah, open source roguelike game
+<kitsune>       I played it a few years ago
+<kitsune>       http://thangorodrim.angband.org
+<kitsune>       with some monkeying with the Makefile, you should be able to compile it on any *nix box :p
+<dwihno>        hey, I want some screenshots! :)
+<kitsune>       heh
+<kitsune>       it isn't impressive, graphically
+<kitsune>       but they have some :p
+<tina>  oh, come on... the @... the @!
+<kitsune>       I generally play it in ascii mode, heh
+<dwihno>        eww! :)
+<dwihno>        Are you still living in the 70's? :)
+<kitsune>       heh, it is kind of cool
+<kitsune>       yeah
+<kitsune>       I am, actually
+<dwihno>        Ah, you live in finland? :) Or poland? :)
+<dwihno>        That would explain it ;)
+<kitsune>       heh
+<kitsune>       time warp
+<dwihno>        Finns are stuck in the 80's
+<kitsune>       actually, the perk of the game is A) you don't have to use a mouse
+<kitsune>       B) You don't need to have a graphics card per se
+<kitsune>       C) You can be killed my star spawns of cthulhu
+<kitsune>       er, by
+<tina>  heh
+<kitsune>       my old High Elven Priest kicked the crap out of them though
+<kitsune>       Parsec is a slightly more modern game
+<kitsune>       I think of it as a reincarnated xpilot
+<kitsune>       www.parsec.org
+<kitsune>       unfortunately, it isn't open source
+<kitsune>       but it will be, perhaps, when they finish with it :p
+<kitsune>       since it is non-commercial.
+<Bagder>        weird doing non-commercial things non open source
+<kitsune>       not really
+<kitsune>       they have a tight group of developers
+*       Bagder is very pro open source
+<kitsune>       yeah
+<kitsune>       ftp://parsec.cg.tuwien.ac.at/pub/parsec_wallpaper2_1024.jpg
+<kitsune>       They like to waste their time NOT working on the client/server code making cool art from their ship models :P
+<kitsune>       I'd say the controls were reminiscent of wing commander of yore
+<kitsune>       slightly more complicated
+<kitsune>       the universe will never have enough phallus shaped spacecraft
+<kitsune>       isn't it sort of early in sweden?
+<Bagder>        08:28 am
+<kitsune>       ah
+<kitsune>       GMT +1
+<kitsune>       and tina needs to learn how to change her Real Name :P
+<Bagder>        +2 right now actually, we're on DST
+<tina>  eh
+<kitsune>       "Matthew Syx"
+<tina>  shut up
+<kitsune>       heh.
+<tina>  I win
+<kitsune>       two comments I've received on the jukebox studio 20: "It holds THAT much!?" and "It's heavy"
+<kitsune>       ?
+<kitsune>       got any decent mp3s to upload, tina?
+<kitsune>       you got like 120 mbs from my box ;p
+<tina>  hmm... not really... the only stuff I've made an effort to get myself is cowboy bebop songs
+<kitsune>       I could of helped you earlier
+<tina>  eh... oh well
+<kitsune>       I had all the CDs + the Knocking on Heaven's door soundtrack
+<kitsune>       :p
+<tina>  I'll have to go through and see if there are any songs that have fallen through the cracks
+<dwihno>        kitsune: I'll give you my comment: IT KICKS ARSE!
+<kitsune>       heh, I've had mixed feelings
+<kitsune>       mine has alot of goofy hardware issues
+<dwihno>        Oh?
+<kitsune>       my first one died
+<kitsune>       but thankfully, I got another :P
+<kitsune>       *shrugs*
+<dwihno>        hmm
+<dwihno>        strangé
+<kitsune>       It is has generally been more better than for worse, of course
+<dwihno>        what model?
+<kitsune>       the real advantage is I don't need to buy CDs anymore
+<kitsune>       I've got a studio 20
+<dwihno>        mkay
+<kitsune>       I've been thinking of getting a new HD for it
+<dwihno>        Once I got the recorder I can't even think about having a 2 line char display
+<kitsune>       which would be pretty cheap in consideration
+<dwihno>        yeah
+<dwihno>        Unless it's locked, you can buy gigantic HD's :)
+<kitsune>       heh, how many lines does the recorder have?
+<Bagder>        64 pixels
+<kitsune>       ah
+<dwihno>        But why wouldn't 20 gb be enough? ;)
+<dwihno>        It's a bitmap display
+<kitsune>       dwihno - I'd get a faster, better one :P
+<dwihno>        mkay
+<dwihno>        well, why faster?
+<kitsune>       heh
+<kitsune>       eh, no real reasons
+<dwihno>        faster = more power consumption
+<kitsune>       heh, I've got lots of rechargeables ;p
+<Bagder>        it'd need shorter time to read the same data, so it migth save batteries too...
+<kitsune>       lower seek times, for one
+<kitsune>       I don't know how the HD cache reads
+<dwihno>        me neither, I'm no techno geek :)
+<kitsune>       er, factors into the equation
+<dwihno>        1+1=2 - period :)
+<kitsune>       oh well
+<kitsune>       if this thing has a nice head crash, I'll have an excuse to get a new one
+<kitsune>       and I'm not to afraid of opening the box up
+<dwihno>        Warranties are for sissies? ;)
+<kitsune>       if not, I'll just wait a few months, and pickup a nice equivalent drive for about the same price
+<kitsune>       heh, I already exchanged one
+<dwihno>        *connect the power supply to the recorder thingy*
+<kitsune>       my current one doesn't even have a serial number
+<dwihno>        it doesn't?
+<kitsune>       yeah
+<dwihno>        I got one! I got one! :D
+<kitsune>       heh, I had one
+<kitsune>       then I got a new box
+<dwihno>        I bet it was a replacement unit
+<kitsune>       I've been interested in that new 20 gig recorder
+<kitsune>       dwihno - yeah, obviously ;p
+<dwihno>        20 gig recorder is pr0n'ish
+<kitsune>       heh
+<kitsune>       I suspect they'd have shaken even more bugs out of the design :p
+<dwihno>        I bet
+<kitsune>       and the USB2 is a nice feature
+<Bagder>        usb2 rocks
+<Bagder>        I can fill my recorder in an hour or so;-)
+<kitsune>       I'd need to get a new card, and figure out how to get it working in Linux
+<kitsune>       hah
+<Bagder>        works like a charm on linux
+<dwihno>        Bagder: Well, USB2 is nice for "the first fill", otherwise, USB1 is good enough for me ;)
+<kitsune>       hmm
+<kitsune>       what kernel?
+*       kitsune wonders what tina is doing.
+<Bagder>        kitsune: I use 2.4.18
+<kitsune>       as do I
+<kitsune>       with some funky patches :P
+<tina>  typing
+<Bagder>        kitsune: you just need a usb2 patch
+<dwihno>        :D
+<kitsune>       ah, good
+<dwihno>        Funky patches(tm)
+<Bagder>        kitsune: the recorder uses the ISD300, which makes it look like a "standard" usb-storage device
+<kitsune>       ISD200 you mean?
+<tina>  I had to write a play for english
+<kitsune>       tina, can I be an actor? ;p
+<Bagder>        kitsune: no, 200 is the usb1.1 the player/studio use
+<kitsune>       ah
+<kitsune>       heh
+<kitsune>       They need a new numbering scheme :P
+<tina>  no, it's for my class only
+<dwihno>        Bagder: Hmm, is the ISD200 driver compatible with the 300? :)
+<Bagder>        dwihno: no
+<kitsune>       heh
+<Bagder>        there's no need for a "special" driver for the isd300
+<dwihno>        I was just thinking about Björn's driver
+<dwihno>        mkay
+<tina>  I think we are performing it in two days
+<kitsune>       heh
+<Bagder>        I don't even build with Björn's driver to talk to my recorder
+<kitsune>       I'd really like to crack this little box open
+<dwihno>        <-- listens to some chilled Dire Straits beats on his 'REKÅÅÅRDÄÄÄR' :D
+<dwihno>        kitsune: There are some pretty nifty howto docs on the rockbox pages
+<kitsune>       yeah, I've been watching it since I got my original box back in december
+*       Bagder counts to 108 subscribers of the rockbox mailing list right now
+<kitsune>       heh
+<kitsune>       I'll join up
+<dwihno>        'perform some basic (in)sanity checks
+<dwihno>        I LOVE commenting my code! :D
+<kitsune>       mail address?
+<Bagder>        send a message to majordomo@cool.haxx.se with the words "subscribe rockbox" in the body. 
+<kitsune>       majordomo@bjorn.haxx.se
+<kitsune>       ah, okay
+<kitsune>       Yeah, I've done this :p
+<dwihno>        I'm gonna do that too
+<kitsune>       god I love running my own e-mail server :P
+<kitsune>       it is nice and fast
+<dwihno>        :)
+<kitsune>       the open source movement, or more linux in the scheme of things, is quite cool :P
+<kitsune>       I've got alot of software, that does alot of things, each quite customizable.
+<kitsune>       and then there is emacs.
+<kitsune>       which does everything, sickly.
+*       Bagder practicly lives in emacs
+<kitsune>       yeah
+<kitsune>       that is what I mean ;p
+<kitsune>       it does everything
+*       kitsune uses that, or vim. Generally dependent on mood, and which box I'm using :p
+<kitsune>       Virtu the mad finn uses emacs, alot.
+<kitsune>       and tina has no idea what we're talking about.
+<Bagder>        I use emacs 8-9 hours a day at work
+<tina>  hah, only a page and three quarters to go
+<dwihno>        Virtu?! Who the heck is virtu?
+<Bagder>        then some 2-3 hours a day on spare time hacking
+<dwihno>        I use VIM ;D
+<kitsune>       heh, I'll find his webpage
+<kitsune>       yeah, if I had a choice between emacs and vim, I'd go for the latter
+<tina>  I would have some idea if I were paying attention
+<dwihno>        Well, as always, people should use the editor they want, even if that would be edlin ;)
+<kitsune>       heh.
+<kitsune>       edlin
+<kitsune>       masocists
+<Bagder>        time for more coffee
+<kitsune>       he works with some pretty cool sounding stuff :P
+<kitsune>       http://www.immersion.com/products/3d/interaction/digiloop.shtml
+<kitsune>       http://tols16.oulu.fi/~mhalttun/ - but he is a weirdo
+<dwihno>        he looks scary
+<kitsune>       He's harmless
+<tina>  that's what they all say
+<dwihno>        tina: He's a scary dude, huh?
+<kitsune>       except for the whole bondage thing, but that is his girlfriend too :p
+*       kitsune is kidding
+<tina>  I dunno
+<tina>  who are you talking about
+<kitsune>       the URL I posted
+<kitsune>       and why the heck doesn't archos open source their firmware
+<kitsune>       it wouldn't really hurt them, since they're trying to sell hardware :P
+<tina>  he may seem harmless, but you can never quite tell
+<kitsune>       heh.
+<dwihno>        kitsune: One word. CONTROL.
+<dwihno>        If they develop under a closed box, they can do whatever they want
+<kitsune>       heh
+<Bagder>        and then don't have to show the world their crappy code :-)
+<Bagder>        they
+<kitsune>       true
+<kitsune>       albeit 95% of the world wouldn't care ;)
+<kitsune>       well, more than that.
+<Bagder>        very true
+<kitsune>       we need more hackers on this earth
+<kitsune>       like ol' capn' crunch of yore
+<Bagder>        the fact that they even scramble the binary indicates that they actually tried a bit further to disclose their stuff
+<kitsune>       I've had the desire to take control over the new 'highway messaging system' :p
+<kitsune>       I know they get their messages from some location or another, now how they get there, that would be the important aspect :p
+<kitsune>       Bagder - heh, wrong attitude.
+<kitsune>       okay, I think I've found the culprit to my mysterious problems with my juke :p
+<kitsune>       hardware wise at least
+<kitsune>       whenever I have the headphone plugged into it's jack, pressure to one side will cause the juke to suddenly powerdown
+<kitsune>       I plugged it into the line out, no more problem
+<kitsune>       exactly what purpose does this vestigial Line IN port on the Jukebox serve?
+<Bagder>        no clue
+<dwihno>        secret thingy?
+<kitsune>       heh
+<kitsune>       making Line IN a serial port, makes sense :p
+<kitsune>       remote debugging, heh
+<kitsune>       or a terminal for Linux? ;)
+<kitsune>       Linux on one of these things would be sick, and wrong.
+<ironi> *yawn*
+<Bagder>        morning ironi
+<kitsune>       heh
+<kitsune>       2 AM here
+<kitsune>       howdy ironi
+<ironi> working nights is hell.
+<ironi> Bagder: hi
+<ironi> i've slept 2 hours in total in 24 hours
+<dwihno>        YAY! :D
+<kitsune>       Any particular reason this project has so many swedish folk in it? ;p
+<ironi> 1 hour now, 1 hour last night
+<dwihno>        Sleeping is for wussies :)
+<dwihno>        has it already been 1 hour? :)
+<dwihno>        heh
+<ironi> kitsune: cause swedish people are cool and like audio gadgets
+<kitsune>       yeah, I guessed that
+<ironi> dwihno: yup, 1§
+<ironi> 1½
+*       kitsune will in turn search for appropriate console fonts :p
+<kitsune>       all in the name of internationalization
+<dwihno>        May 28 Majordomo@cool. (  32) Welcome to rockbox
+<dwihno>        Yay
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<kitsune>       heya
+<Bagder>        morning Z
+<Zagor> hi
+<Zagor> noticed we've got a bug report... i meant to comment on that on the daily page, but was too slow :)
+<Bagder>        the daily builds this morning kind of didn't work out properly so they're the same as yesterday
+<Zagor> ok
+<Bagder>        btw, we might consider adding some kind of version string in the software so that we can display version in a running rockbox
+<Bagder>        s/might/should
+<Zagor> yes
+<dwihno>        Hej Z
+---     kitsune is now known as adam
+*       adam makes a silly face at nickserv
+<adam>  I wish there was no such madness
+<Bagder>        got an interesting compiler error:
+*       adam prefers IRC by contention
+<Bagder>        "If you cannot alter your program to avoid this failure, please contact your supplier"
+<Zagor> haha
+*       Bagder curses his compiler
+<adam>  heh
+<adam>  what compiler? ;p
+<Bagder>        armcc
+<adam>  ah
+<Bagder>        Norcroft
+<adam>  I was guessing it wasn't gcc ;p
+<adam>  "If you cannot alter your program to avoid this failure, THERE IS NO WARRANTY HAHAHAHAHA"
+<adam>  I doubt the FSF would be that evil.
+<Bagder>        silly compiler indeed
+<Bagder>        I just moved a few #include lines and it worked again
+<adam>  wow, time stamps in the future
+<adam>  I should seriously set my clock a few years ahead, then everyone else would get clock skew :P
+<adam>  Alright, UIE09, any idea what summons that crash?
+*       ironi is gone, uni [l/on p/on]
+<Bagder>        adam: you ran the rockbox image?
+<adam>  heh, I compiled a firmware module from the source tar.gz
+<Bagder>        ok
+<Bagder>        we need to figure out what UIE09 is
+<adam>  heh
+<adam>  I've got a flukey juke
+<adam>  it should find lots of problems :P
+<Bagder>        Zagor: what kind of exception number is that UIE one? It isn't the "vector number" is it?
+<adam>  hah, 'curl' is developed by haxx too?
+<Bagder>        damn right
+*       Bagder spends far too much time on curl
+<adam>  heh
+<adam>  I'll take a peek
+<Bagder>        curl is my contribution to most linux distribs
+<adam>  nice long man page
+<adam>  ;p
+<Bagder>        Björn got into them with his linux driver ;-)
+<Zagor> isd200 is mine
+<adam>  heh
+<adam>  wow, I didn't even bother /whois'ing
+*       adam is impressed :p
+*       Bagder bows
+<adam>  ISD200 has served me well.
+<Zagor> 09 is CPUAE
+<adam>  CPUAE?
+<Bagder>        address error
+<Zagor> yup
+<adam>  hmm
+<adam>  not healthy.
+<Zagor> they're all listed in system.c
+<Bagder>        aha
+<adam>  then in I go
+<Bagder>        adam: you got that right away?
+<adam>  heh, Bagder - it comes after UIE68
+<adam>  UIE68 goes away when I take out my headphones from the jack and startup without em.
+<Zagor> adam: yeah, we're apparently not setting up the serial port properly
+<adam>  heh.
+<Bagder>        Zagor: wasn't that 68 error fixed yesterday?
+<adam>  well, consider me about the closest person you can find to a generic end user.
+<adam>  totally useless ;p
+<Bagder>        Zagor: remember that adam is using the daily tarball that doesn't contain the fixes of yesterday
+<adam>  heh, I can use the latest cvs
+<dwihno>        :w
+<dwihno>        oops
+<adam>  if I'm able to duplicate them.
+<Bagder>        cvs is always better
+<adam>  yeah
+<adam>  and checking them out rigth now.
+<adam>  I suppose it is a necessary evil
+<adam>  heh
+<Bagder>        yeah, to survive on the edge you need special tools to keep the balance ;-)
+<adam>  system.c is about as useful to me as an egyptian hierloglyphic serial terminal
+<adam>  heh
+<adam>  I think the more complex and esoteric a program gets, the more magic power is imbued within each binary
+<adam>  i.e. apache mod_rewrite
+<adam>  doesn't seem very user friendly, and it isn't but it does some really neat stuff
+<adam>  heh, exactly why did archos take the liberty to create 'firmware installer' programs?
+<Zagor> good question. maybe drag-and-dropping a file is too difficult
+<Zagor> we're actually trying to make the code accessible even for non-wizards. system.c is an exception, unfortunately
+<adam>  sad world.
+<adam>  heh
+<adam>  well, I need something to get confused and disturbed by
+<adam>  and I'm learning perl, so uh, I should get used to really confusing structures :p
+<Zagor> perl is nice
+<adam>  heh, swiss army chainsaw, essentially
+*       Bagder wears his RSA-in-perl t-shirt today
+<adam>  is that the dolphin one?
+<Bagder>        yeps
+<adam>  heh, cool shirt.
+<dwihno>        You damn geeks :)
+<adam>  oh well.
+<adam>  I'd get the license plate 'slack'
+<Zagor> me, geek? noooo....
+<adam>  to show my love of the lazy system administrator mentality
+<adam>  laziness is what leads to innovative new ways to waste time and automate :p
+<dwihno>        automate :)
+<dwihno>        I love that word
+<adam>  it makes me think of the borg
+<adam>  but to me, that basically means abuse of cron, sleep, batch, etc
+<dwihno>        cron is your friend! :)
+<adam>  yes
+<dwihno>        Who is using the computer during nighttime? :)
+<dwihno>        No one! :D
+<adam>  well, I am
+<dwihno>        You are actually giving the computer something to do! YOU'RE DOING A GOOD THING! :)
+<adam>  well, lots of people are ;p
+<adam>  if it is a server
+<adam>  the script kiddies want to break in whilst you're at lunch
+<dwihno>        Not when normal people are asleep
+<adam>  heh, the world is round ;)
+<Bagder>        my computer computes RC5 all the time ;-)
+<adam>  #ev has demonstrated that fact by having a steady population all throughout the day
+<adam>  basically a cluster of people in Australia/New Zealand, a gaggle in North America, and quite a few in Europe.
+<tina>  oh, the crazy new Zealanders
+<adam>  yeh, them
+<Bagder>        our coffee machine is broken *again*
+<adam>  heh.
+*       Bagder runs off to find a working coffee machine and fill up
+<dwihno>        Mission: impossible
+<adam>  I should make it a goal to keep my load average at 1.0 at all times.
+<dwihno>        Good morning, mr Phelps
+<adam>  there was this interesting project tainted by commercialization
+<Zagor> adam: dnetc is good for that :)
+<adam>  a research group testing cancer drugs wanting major distributed computing power
+<adam>  Intel of course stomped in and gave it to them, in the form of a friendly, close sourced, Windows only program :p
+<dwihno>        Zagor: In my mind, dnetc is just helping some fishy government agency
+<adam>  I suppose as long as there is some benefit research wise, I'm fine, but I'd rather have something a bit more like seti@home
+<adam>  heh
+<adam>  The NSA can afford billion dollar computers.
+<adam>  If they can afford billion dollar satellites :p
+<Zagor> dwihno: government? they are doing exactly the opposite
+<adam>  I'm sure they have very little problems with laying the smack down on any code.
+<dwihno>        Zagor: That's what they want YOU to think! :)
+<adam>  heh.
+<adam>  I think the Internet should use cockney rhyming slang to encrypt :p
+<PsycoXul>      governments aren't behind much shit besides what you see
+<PsycoXul>      the big conspiracies are in the multinational corporations, and other organizations we don't even know about :p
+<adam>  heh
+<adam>  like Greenpeace
+<adam>  they want to save the trees and stuff.
+<tina>  or do they?
+<adam>  hmm
+<adam>  I think I'll degrade to the point where I'll be saying "Is it safe?" to random people I glide by in the streets.
+<adam>  Or take on Finagle's Seventh Law: "The perversity of the Universe tends towards a maximum"
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<adam>  hey Linus
+<Linus> yo!
+<adam>  started listening to Machinae Supremacy
+<adam>  fucking awesome. :p
+<Linus> Indeed!
+<adam>  Tina likes them as well :p
+<Zagor> yeah, they're really good
+<adam>  heh, I'll share them with my other musical comrades.
+<adam>  they've got a link on their site to a commodore 64 web server
+<adam>  which strikes me as a major hack.
+<Linus> C64 is still the ultimate computing platform... :-)
+<adam>  heh.
+<tina>  I am tired... sleep I go
+<adam>  You've got 3 hours to sleep.
+<tina>  hmm, is it even worth it
+<adam>  I tend to feel worse if I do sleep for 2 hours :p
+<adam>  than if I hadn't slept at all
+<tina>  yeah, but I have to write two more papers tomarrow
+*       adam has to run to the U today
+<adam>  but nothing else :P
+<adam>  goodnight, if you're going
+<tina>  I should stay up for freakazoid
+<adam>  ...
+<adam>  caffeine will aid you in that endeavour.
+<tina>  true
+<adam>  I personally get a little paranoid about drinking it :p
+<adam>  since I can recall one time where I stayed up for about 2 days after with about a dozen cups of coffee :p
+<adam>  and started to have heart palpations :P
+<tina>  I usually get paranoid, only if I am drinking it for awake purpuses
+<adam>  I meant it from the standpoint of physical health ;p
+<tina>  ah
+<adam>  I don't think the world is out to kill me any more than it is right now.
+<tina>  oh?
+<adam>  Did you see the caffeinated soap on thinkgeek.com?
+<tina>  I didn't see it, but I observed some of the conversation
+<adam>  heh.
+<adam>  Sick idea :P
+<tina>  yeah
+<tina>  at least I don't think I have any finals tomarrow
+<adam>  thanks to the internet, about half of my music originates from scandinavia :P
+<tina>  yey
+<adam>  i.e. Finnish/Swedish metal :p
+<adam>  of various subgenres
+<tina>  hai
+<dwihno>        hojt
+<adam>  stupid library: Guns of the South is 'In Transit'
+<adam>  whatever that means
+*       adam notes knowledge of *nix is of much use :P
+<tina>  that means it's going from one library to the one you reserved it to
+<adam>  I can imagine a time when people actually dialed into the library to browse the net :P
+<tina>  are you talking about the pre internet days?
+<adam>  well, it wouldn't be 'pre-internet' per se
+<adam>  I can't see any other reason they'd offer lynx :P
+<tina>  yeah, the thing that you could go into without internet service
+<adam>  uh...?
+<tina>  all you needed was a modem
+<tina>  and lots of patience
+<adam>  oh well.
+<adam>  you ever read Guns of the South?
+<tina>  nope
+<adam>  Civil War, 'cept this time the Confederates had AK-47s
+<adam>  :p
+<adam>  I suppose you can imagine the consequences of that.
+<tina>  fun fun
+<tina>  yes, perhaps there might have been a few consiquences
+<tina>  ...yup
+<adam>  hmm, must find more music...
+<tina>  indeed
+<tina>  how do you find this stuff anyway?
+<adam>  heh, word of mouth, websites, etc
+<adam>  google.com is good :P
+<tina>  ah
+<adam>  I was just lucky that Linus mentioned Machinae Supremacy
+<tina>  ah
+*       adam makes his site lynx friendly again
+<adam>  :p
+<dwihno>        URL?
+<adam>  rei.damnsw.net
+*       tina serches for information, but fails
+<adam>  heh
+<adam>  information on what?
+<adam>  oh crap, tomorrow I've got a lug meeting :P
+<dwihno>        www.klitta.nu
+<dwihno>        And some beta design stuff @ www.klitta.nu/k/
+<adam>  heh.
+<adam>  It'd be great if I could read swedish
+<adam>  :P
+<adam>  heh, mutable size boobies
+<dwihno>        :)
+<adam>  I've got my forum
+<dwihno>        The next version is vector based and looks pretty neat ;D
+<adam>  I want to basically get text-only tools setup
+<adam>  I've seen a bbs a friend was using, which appealed slightly
+<adam>  the more ancient, archaic, and basic the technology behind it, the more satisfaction I gain :P
+<tina>  it's for my world religion class
+<adam>  This is all I have to give you for world religions:
+<adam>  http://rei.damnsw.net/~adam/RoboChrist_sungod.jpg
+<tina>  heh
+<dwihno>        hah
+<tina>  why did I have to pick such a secluded religion
+<adam>  because you're silly? ;p
+<adam>  Did you pick Hare Krishna or something?
+<tina>  that, and all the major ones were taken
+<tina>  no, wicca
+<adam>  or Amita Buddhism.
+<adam>  heh
+<adam>  Wicca, very simple
+<adam>  take overweight women, add bastardized celtic rituals, and remove showers.
+<adam>  :p
+<dwihno>        :)
+<dwihno>        s/overweight/american/
+<adam>  hah
+<adam>  yeah
+<tina>  yeah, try finding a creation story from an ancient religion that was pretty much wiped out when the saxons arived in britain
+<adam>  essentially equivalent
+<adam>  make one up!
+<PsycoXul>      enuma elish
+<tina>  eh?
+<PsycoXul>      but different region
+<PsycoXul>      :p
+<tina>  eh??
+<adam>  http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/enuma.htm
+<dwihno>        adam: making up history papers is fun! especially when your teacher sucks so much you actually get a high grade because of his/her inability to verify the content ;)
+<adam>  heh.
+<adam>  Sir, this answer came to me in a dream.
+<tina>  heh
+<adam>  It is all very simple
+<dwihno>        The masterness of bullshitting! :)
+<tina>  is it now?
+<dwihno>        You know you master it, when you get away with it ;)
+<PsycoXul>      hey wtf
+*       adam will get a degree con artisanry
+<PsycoXul>      the answer did come to me in a dream, and it is all very simple
+<PsycoXul>      in fact recognizing its simplicity was part of the dream
+<adam>  er, +in
+<PsycoXul>      but nobody else would get it!
+<PsycoXul>      in the dream
+<adam>  http://rei.damnsw.net/~adam/fullpage.jpg
+<adam>  we tried to fake someone's death for him
+<PsycoXul>      and i didn't understand how they could possible not comprehend it
+<adam>  so he'd stop getting mail from lamer 12 year olds about questions that  could be answered in the stupid FAQ
+<adam>  Matt Burch, that is.
+<PsycoXul>      it being one of the single simplest and most fundamental principles of our reality and every facet of our existance
+<adam>  hah
+<adam>  PsycoXul - the stars are not right, it is not the time.
+<PsycoXul>      i just wish i could remember what it was it better :p
+<tina>  PsycoXul-what religion was that scripture for?
+<adam>  "Okay, well, I'll wait till this simple universe comes to me in MY dream, until then, you don't get credit"
+<adam>  er, simple universal fact
+*       adam in turn goes insane.
+<tina>  yay!
+<PsycoXul>      tina: its the creation epic of the ancient sumerians
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<PsycoXul>      tina: actualy the written copies of it are from the newer babylonian days
+<adam>  heh, I noticed Tiamat listed
+<adam>  which is also the name of some whacky heavy metal band :P
+<tina>  yeah, that's a little too far away
+<PsycoXul>      :p
+<tina>  I'm trying to focus in on the brittish isles
+<adam>  yeah, I've only got one guide for you to consult
+<adam>  http://rei.damnsw.net/wiccan_creation_myths.txt
+<tina>  heh
+<tina>  it's not taht big if a deal
+<tina>  I have something, it's just not really a story
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<adam>  hey
+<tina>  eh, I go to sleep for real this time
+<tina>  night...morning... whatever
+-->     MSMaverick (~webmaster@pD9EB9BB7.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<MSMaverick>    hi
+<Bagder>        hey ho
+<--     tina has quit ()
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<MSMaverick>    Anyone knows when the first build will work for the recorder 20?
+<adam>  never
+<MSMaverick>    I sold my 6000 3 months ago :(
+<Bagder>        MSMaverick: not right now
+<adam>  actually
+<adam>  just be patient
+<MSMaverick>    yeah
+<Bagder>        the first target working will be the player/studio
+<adam>  I doubt you're going to want to jump on the first available releases ;p
+<MSMaverick>    yep your right :)
+<Bagder>        sure you do! ;-)
+<Bagder>        ask dwihno
+<Bagder>        ;-)
+<Linus> dwihno is still our hero
+<MSMaverick>    huh?
+<adam>  heh
+<adam>  Well, I would...
+<adam>  but they punish me enough
+<Bagder>        he ran the first ever archos.mod for the recorder
+<Linus> He is our best lab rat
+<adam>  heh
+<MSMaverick>    ah
+<MSMaverick>    hehe
+<dwihno>        :D
+<Linus> To boldly test the firmware noone has tested before...
+<Bagder>        he's our *hero* ;-)
+<MSMaverick>    If I could write in C, I would help the project but I cant...
+<adam>  heh
+<Linus> Assembler is fine too :-)
+<adam>  then you must *suffer*!
+<adam>  heh.
+<dwihno>        I AM HERO!
+<Bagder>        you can learn! ;-)
+<dwihno>        yay
+<MSMaverick>    :((( *suffering*
+<dwihno>        Hey, I found a really neat shockwave game
+<dwihno>        http://www.permobil.se/templates_se/P_SE_Page.asp?id=7401
+<MSMaverick>    Yeah, thats my world: Coding for the web
+<MSMaverick>    ASP, PHP, Perl...
+<MSMaverick>    But not C :(
+<adam>  my world is sitting around like a potato
+<adam>  heh
+<MSMaverick>    hehe
+<adam>  Perl and PHP both have some aspects of C
+<MSMaverick>    I know
+<MSMaverick>    But there are enough differences :)
+<adam>  just glob your knowledge of perl and php together into a sick bastard mutant code and grit your teeth?
+<MSMaverick>    dunno
+<MSMaverick>    So the actual builds DO work for the 6000?
+<adam>  heh, sorta.
+<adam>  I'm impressed by what I've seen so far :P
+<PsycoXul>      its nice
+<PsycoXul>      it needs 2 sets of sound controls i think though
+<MSMaverick>    Is it "cool"? I mean for grapics and so on?
+<PsycoXul>      one for the mas and one for the dac
+<adam>  heh
+<PsycoXul>      since they each have them
+<adam>  as cool as two lines of text can be
+<MSMaverick>    hehe ok
+<MSMaverick>    So you have to work on the recorder (8 lines) heheh
+<PsycoXul>      recorders bitmap so
+<adam>  yeah
+<Linus> The DAC hasn't any sound control except for the volume
+<Linus> and the deemphasis on/off switch
+<Bagder>        we build for player, playerold and recorder
+<Linus> and believe me, you dont want to turn off the deemphasis...
+<PsycoXul>      are you sure? i swear there being others.. i don't recall for sure though, but even then what about its volume control
+<PsycoXul>      oh and how about the options for turning the various channels on/off
+<PsycoXul>      i still wanna listen to mp3's and line-in simultaneously :p
+<Linus> OK. I assumed that you meant sound control as in bass/treble and such
+<PsycoXul>      but yeah fixing whats there is the priority of course, i'm just wondering :p
+*       Bagder counts to 76 different command line options to curl...!
+<Bagder>        and people think it might be hard to use! ;-)
+<MSMaverick>    MANY Options is all what the people need :)
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs07v-3-63.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<adam>  hey
+<Bagder>        Alan man!
+<alkorr>        hi every body !
+<Zagor> hi alan!
+<MSMaverick>    Is there a limit for the filesize of the firmware?
+<Linus> yo!
+<Bagder>        MSMaverick: yes, 200K something
+<MSMaverick>    And rockbox currently has?
+<Bagder>        not sure, we pad up to 50K
+<Linus> 20?
+<alkorr>        seems there are more and more people here :)
+<MSMaverick>    so enough space for more options? :)
+<Zagor> we're somewhere around 20-25 i think
+<Bagder>        some players don't load smaller than 50
+<Bagder>        alkorr: you seen the last weeks' progress?
+<alkorr>        Well it isn't a problem this padding
+<Zagor> nope, no problem
+<Bagder>        no problem at all
+<alkorr>        to have a 50 KB file doesn't mean it will waste 50 KB in memory :)
+<MSMaverick>    hehe
+<alkorr>        of course, i got your emails
+<MSMaverick>    Ah yeah but it is still not possible to support mp3PRO, nor?
+<alkorr>        well i don't think we have any chance with Micrometall to get what we need to add mp3pro 
+<Zagor> no
+<alkorr>        Micronas i mean
+<MSMaverick>    why
+<alkorr>        business company
+<alkorr>        very poor support
+<MSMaverick>    But there are other players around...
+<Bagder>        yeah, but we're stuck on this mp3 decoder
+<MSMaverick>    Isnt it possible to use a plugin like the one for winamp?
+<Bagder>        we don't have CPU enough
+---     Disconnected (22).
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 28 06:07:12 2002
+
diff --git a/www/irc/rockbox-20020529.log b/www/irc/rockbox-20020529.log
new file mode 100644
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--- /dev/null
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@@ -0,0 +1,93 @@
+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 28 17:38:59 2002
+
+-->     adiamas (~adiamas@as5300-10.216-194-23-227.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     Topic for #rockbox is Does your box rock? http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+---     Topic for #rockbox set by Bagder at Mon May 13 04:46:28
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<adam>  hmm
+<adam>  LUG meeting tomorrow :P
+<adam>  == hauling big computer, getting back ache, LAN party
+<--     adam has quit ("BitchX WWW Site -- http://we.got.net/~brian/")
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     dw|gone is now known as dwihno
+-->     ironi (ironi@as2-5-7.j.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<dwihno>        ironin! :)
+<ironi> dwihno
+<ironi> hey
+<ironi> i just joined
+<ironi> i'm going to sleep
+<ironi> actually
+<ironi> be back around 1 pm
+<ironi> =)
+<dwihno>        Haha
+<dwihno>        Galning :)
+<ironi> just wanted to try the daily build before going to bed
+<dwihno>        mkay
+<ironi> vadå jag jobbar ju natt :-P
+<dwihno>        oj
+<dwihno>        dåså, gå och lägg dig ;)
+<dwihno>        Själv ska jag leka med DX3-API:et :)
+<ironi> dx3?
+<dwihno>        Jepps
+<ironi> ehm den nya dirbrowsern hajjar jag nada av
+<dwihno>        DirectX :) Gammal mupps
+<ironi> build 20020529
+<dwihno>        Ingen idé att jag testar på min - jag har en recorder :/
+<ironi> okay
+<ironi> i see
+<ironi> nä dags att sova lite jag kollapsar snart...och mun hy är fet...får nog finnar...helvetesnattjobb
+---     ironi is now known as irony|zzz
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        gooood morning
+<dwihno>        Hej hej
+<Bagder>        the daily builds seem to have been built properly today
+<adiamas>       anyone else play with the simulator lately?
+<Bagder>        I made it build yesterday
+<Bagder>        `problems?
+<adiamas>       yeah.. the dir listing looks weird...
+<adiamas>       misplacement of icons .. etc..
+<adiamas>       bah.. don't worry.. ill get it tomorrow night.. i need sleep
+*       adiamas waves
+<Bagder>        hm, I believe Björn was messing in that code yesterday
+<Bagder>        night
+<dwihno>        I just got DX3 to compile with my mingw setup! :)
+<Bagder>        dx3?
+<dwihno>        yup
+<dwihno>        directx3
+<dwihno>        stonage stuff :)
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Zagor> hey boys
+<Bagder>        morning
+<Bagder>        adiamas says you broke the dir browser on the recorder
+<Bagder>        well, he didn't say you did it, he says its broken
+<Zagor> yes, i might have. didn't have time to test it much yesterday
+<Bagder>        the daily build worked fine this morning
+<Zagor> nice
+<Bagder>        in a few days, I'll set up a find job too that'll erase all files older than X days
+<Zagor> linus got a nice idea yesterday. how much work is it to get a CVS report listing all change comments between builds?
+<Bagder>        I'll have a look
+<Bagder>        should be a cvs log output with a time interval
+<Zagor> it would be a good automated changelog
+<Bagder>        there's a cvs2changelog script somewhere 
+<Bagder>        cvs log -d "2002-05-28 06:00<2002-05-29 06:00"
+<Bagder>        seems to work
+<Bagder>        just needs some decent parsing
+<Bagder>        parsing in progress
+<dwihno>        Yay! :D
+<dwihno>        The power of parse compels you!
+<Zagor> when the disk is spinning, the 6k uses 240mA
+<Bagder>        isn't that ~70mA more?
+<Zagor> this means idle disk spins are not that expensive
+<Zagor> exactly
+<webmind>       hm
+<webmind>       question: u people know if its normal that the battery does not last for 8 hours after first use :)
+<Zagor> yes it's normal. the batteries take a few charges to get full effect
+<Zagor> also the first use tends to involve a lot of keypresses :)
+<webmind>       a few charges ?
+<webmind>       hmk
+<webmind>       heh :)
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed May 29 03:15:15 2002
diff --git a/www/irc/rockbox-20020531.log b/www/irc/rockbox-20020531.log
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@@ -0,0 +1,2301 @@
+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 29 23:40:11 2002
+
+-->     adiamas (~adiamas@as5300-9.216-194-23-46.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     Topic for #rockbox is Does your box rock? http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+---     Topic for #rockbox set by Bagder at Mon May 13 04:46:28
+---     You are now known as adi|home
+<irony|zzz>     http://www.teilar.gr/~h2527/
+<irony|zzz>     mornin
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<PsycoXul>      ok so why is bmp.h being included somewhere for a player build?
+<PsycoXul>      and whats up with snprintf conflicting types?
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        mooo
+<irony|zzz>     heya there bäddur
+<irony|zzz>     nice to see you
+<irony|zzz>     Do you have power heh
+<Bagder>        *I* have
+<irony|zzz>     or is it black in kista
+<irony|zzz>     :-P
+<irony|zzz>     contactor takes a day off?
+<Bagder>        Kista is pretty black, yes
+<Bagder>        I'm at a customer south of stockholm
+<irony|zzz>     i see
+<irony|zzz>     talked to a friend working at nordnet (teletrade)
+<irony|zzz>     they suffered some probs
+<irony|zzz>     but they managed to get their fiber online
+<irony|zzz>     jus tnow
+<Bagder>        they in kista?
+<irony|zzz>     good for them, stock exchange is opening in 2 minutes, isn't it
+<irony|zzz>     yup
+<irony|zzz>     they just got the servers online like 1 minute ago
+<irony|zzz>     they supposedly moved there not long ago
+<irony|zzz>     if i remeber it right
+<irony|zzz>     nice company, lot of heavy machines =)
+<Bagder>        hm, well I bet no one is at our office at this time anyway
+<irony|zzz>     =)
+<irony|zzz>     I hope I'll move to sthlm in august
+<irony|zzz>     and hopefully find some job there
+<irony|zzz>     I don't think it can be too hard.
+<irony|zzz>     Well w/o any work experience it's not allt hat easy, but I do hope my degree will be work something
+<Bagder>        I'll cross my fingers for you
+<irony|zzz>     thx :)
+<irony|zzz>     well time fo rme to sleep now, I've had a REALLY rough night
+<irony|zzz>     had like 30-35 ppl in the shopa t the same time
+<irony|zzz>     all drunk, all wanting hot dogs
+<Bagder>        haha
+<Bagder>        what shop is this?
+<irony|zzz>     2 hours of extreme stress between 1:30-3:30
+<irony|zzz>     gas station actually, shell.
+<Bagder>        aha
+<irony|zzz>     we're open 24/7,a nd i do the night shift this week, covering for another emoployee
+<irony|zzz>     its a shitty job but i need osmething to make some money for summer vacation
+<irony|zzz>     and also, this makes you appreciate you decided to get a masters degree
+<irony|zzz>     heh
+<Bagder>        I figure that
+<irony|zzz>     but it's nice in some strange way...
+<irony|zzz>     you get into the work of ordinary people...factory workers, newspaper drivers, taxidrivers
+<irony|zzz>     into their world
+<irony|zzz>     I find that fascinating...for some reason
+<irony|zzz>     People that don't think too much about things that aren't concrete...they just live on.
+<irony|zzz>     Bah, Iäm ghetting to philosophic, even though I do have a point with this.
+<irony|zzz>     time to sleep
+*       irony|zzz is gone, zzz [l/on p/on]
+<irony|zzz>     later
+<Bagder>        see ya
+<--     elinenbe has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.7 [Mozilla rv:1.0rc3/20020523]")
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     irony|zzz has quit (" <k!15b8>")
+<--     elinenbe has quit (Client Quit)
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     ChanServ gives channel operator status to Bagder
+---     Bagder has changed the topic to: web site down due to power blackout
+<PsycoXul>      so yeah how about the current cvs
+<PsycoXul>      first i get errors about not finding bmp.h (and i'm trying to build for a player!) and then snprintf conflicting types
+<Bagder>        hm
+<PsycoXul>      the bmp.h thing is in main_menu.c
+<Bagder>        I see it too now
+<Bagder>        it breaks all over
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<adi|home>      yeah.. i had the snprintf complaint today..
+<Bagder>        I fix
+<Bagder>        try now
+<PsycoXul>      its good now
+<Bagder>        good only recorder builds break now ;-)
+<Bagder>        .. and now that builds too
+<PsycoXul>      hmm 
+-->     Zagor (~haxx@Job.elit.net) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        woo
+<Zagor> hi there
+<Bagder>        a different Zagor ;-)
+<PsycoXul>      ok well it looks like that changes in CGRAM get reflected in already-printed characters on the screen
+<Zagor> yeah, this blackout forces creative solutions :)
+<PsycoXul>      i mean the custom chars change as soon as you change them :/
+<Bagder>        Zagor: let me know if you wanna use my home machine for anything creative ;-)
+<Zagor> bagder: can you set me up a ssl tunnel?
+<Zagor> brb
+<--     Zagor has quit (Client Quit)
+-->     Zagor (~haxx@Job.elit.net) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> has anyone found any bugs the last 12 hours?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Zagor> what?
+<Bagder>        edx broke the build
+*       Zagor smacks edx
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Zagor> what did he do?
+<Bagder>        #include "bmp.h"
+<Zagor> buh
+<Zagor> oh well
+<Bagder>        and I fixed the snpritnf() proto
+<Bagder>        as that caused confusion too
+<PsycoXul>      ok i've got 3 different dirs that the first 10 chars of are the same
+<PsycoXul>      2 of which the first 11 chars are the same
+<Zagor> psycoxul: tough :)
+<PsycoXul>      and i can't tell them appart in the browser, but worse is i can't tell them appart by their contents which should be different
+<PsycoXul>      1 of them i can tell appart from the other 2
+<PsycoXul>      but then the other 2 i can't
+*       adi|home has no idea what PsycoXul is talking about
+<PsycoXul>      those 2 also appear right next to each other in the browser
+<Bagder>        adi|home: it's rockbox on a player target talk ;-)
+*       adi|home perks up
+<adi|home>      sweet...
+<adi|home>      but im sorry. i refuse to shell out another 200$ just to get a player so i can keep up with you folks ;)
+<Bagder>        boooo ;-)
+<adi|home>      you could always send me one of those donated units ;)
+<Bagder>        I'd go for a donut unit too :-P
+*       Bagder needs coffee
+<adi|home>      that would go with your 'donut unit ' ;)
+-->     bjst_ (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<adi|home>      hmmm.. minor bug here...
+<bjst_> hey there
+<adi|home>      need to look into that.
+<--     Zagor has quit ("Leaving")
+---     bjst_ is now known as Zagor
+<Bagder>        hm, now I have to move my mp3 stream to another port...
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<adi|home>      maybe that someting we need ;)
+<adi|home>      a common mp3 repository for all of us ;)
+<Zagor> Bagder: hehe
+*       adi|home pokes Bagder
+<adi|home>      you need to get me and ip and port so i can downsuck at work ;)
+<Bagder>        Zagor: I'll run it tunneled through ssh ;-)
+<Bagder>        downsuck ?
+<adi|home>      downsuck: (v) to download at a high rate for the purposes of later consumption.
+<Bagder>        ah
+<adi|home>      [ie: 'Bob downsucked 30gigs of music that he had never heard of just in case he would want it later.']
+<adi|home>      :)
+<Bagder>        I don't want my poor machine and connection get choked by maniacs downloading mp3s ;-)
+<adi|home>      hehehe
+<adi|home>      what conneciton you on?
+<Bagder>        adsl, 2.5mbit down, 700kbit up
+<adi|home>      bahh.. your just fine ;)
+*       adi|home pokes Bagder 
+<adi|home>      come'on.. share
+<adi|home>      ya know you want to
+*       adi|home inserts gross amounts of peer pressure
+<Zagor> adi|home: you don't want bagder's music anyway :)
+<adi|home>      why not?
+<adi|home>      :)
+<Bagder>        haha
+<adi|home>      i have yet to find music i won't listen to :)
+<adi|home>      rap
+<adi|home>      country
+<adi|home>      blue grass
+<adi|home>      techno
+<adi|home>      rock
+<adi|home>      punk
+<adi|home>      blues
+<adi|home>      showtunes
+<adi|home>      p0rn
+<adi|home>      classical
+<adi|home>      its all good :)
+<Zagor> it's none of the above. i'll say no more...
+<adi|home>      hehehe
+<Bagder>        I do have *some* of the above too
+<PsycoXul>      why's lcd_write() and related macro's only defined in lcd.c and not usable directly from an app?
+<adi|home>      Armagedon Dildos?
+<adi|home>      wtf
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: 'cause they're not part of the API. define a high-level function to do the job.
+<Bagder>        PsycoXul: I think that's because we've aimed at a somewhat higher level api for the applications
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor_>        tadaaa
+<--     Zagor has quit ("Client Exiting")
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<Zagor> ssl tunnels rock
+<Bagder>        well, it isn't really ssl ;-)
+<Zagor> nah, but it's the ssl port :)
+<Bagder>        right
+<Zagor> so, where were we? edx broke the build? who broke edx? ;-D
+*       adi|home kicked edx in the nuts.. that count?
+<Bagder>        I fixed the build
+<Zagor> ok, good
+<adi|home>      how expensive a call is lcd_update?
+<Bagder>        adi|home: Gary once mentioned he could get 20 fps using that
+<adi|home>      ummmm.. is that good or bad?
+<Bagder>        but I guess he did more than just updating too then ;-)
+<adi|home>      im just noticing we do alot of:
+<adi|home>      function() 
+<adi|home>      function()
+<adi|home>      lcd_update()
+<adi|home>      return
+<adi|home>      other_function()
+<adi|home>      lcd_update()
+<Bagder>        right, that is not good
+<adi|home>      where the second call only makes a minor change over the first
+<adi|home>      i thought so
+<Bagder>        we could possibly remake things to only do lcd_update() just before we await a keypress
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<adi|home>      dunno if i like that or not...
+<PsycoXul>      what shifts the words over 1 char for the cursor on the player
+<PsycoXul>      i thought just the printing of the '-' was doing it but its not heh
+<adi|home>      i don't think we have a function for that...
+<PsycoXul>      in tree.c i mean
+<adi|home>      i don't get what you mean then
+<PsycoXul>      do you have a player?
+<adi|home>      you mean the alignment of the 1char in the col?
+<adi|home>      nope.. recorder
+<PsycoXul>      well
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      but basically i mean
+<adi|home>      but the display in that sense should be the same
+<PsycoXul>      its '-Stuff'
+<PsycoXul>      and if i get rid of the - printing entirely its still ' Stuff'
+<adi|home>      okay.. and what do you want?
+<adi|home>      'Stuff'?
+<PsycoXul>      yes
+<adi|home>      because the '-' is your cursor
+<adi|home>      so you want:
+<adi|home>      -Stuff
+<adi|home>       other stuff
+<adi|home>      to be
+<adi|home>      Stuff
+<adi|home>      other stuff
+<adi|home>      ?
+<PsycoXul>      yes
+<adi|home>      how do you kno which one your selecting then?
+<PsycoXul>      because we don't need - as a cursor on the player, it has a cursor of its own that reverses the text
+<PsycoXul>      and it doesn't need to take up a space
+<adi|home>      ahhh.. okay..
+<adi|home>      got ya
+<adi|home>      one sec, let me look
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<PsycoXul>      i see it
+<PsycoXul>      #define LINE_X      1 /* X position the entry-list starts at */
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+*       adi|home nods
+<adi|home>      but make sure you #define around it
+<adi|home>      the recorder does need a cursor
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<PsycoXul>      well i'm just testing stuff atm
+<adi|home>      okay.. i got it..
+<PsycoXul>      i still need to see if i can make that cursor show up and not blink
+<adi|home>      just set the LINE_X to 0
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<adi|home>      and: line 116
+<adi|home>      or there in abouts
+<adi|home>      lcd_putsxy
+<adi|home>      put that inside the #ifdef below it
+<adi|home>      before the lcd_update
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<PsycoXul>      what?
+<adi|home>      okay.. go to tree.c
+<PsycoXul>      lcd_putsxy's just for the recorder
+<PsycoXul>      i'm not touching anything with that
+<adi|home>      doh.. wrong line.. hold on
+<adi|home>      check line 173
+<adi|home>      see the lcd_puts after it?
+<PsycoXul>      i've already gone through all those
+<adi|home>      put _that_ inside the #ifdeff below it
+<adi|home>      nods
+<PsycoXul>      there's way too many places that say to put the "-" on there, but i already changed them all :p
+<adi|home>      heheh k
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<PsycoXul>      i can't get the cursor to show without it blinking
+<PsycoXul>      and its off half the time when its blinking heh
+-->     Linus (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+*       PsycoXul will mess with it more later... tea and movie now
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> Yo!
+<Bagder>        hej linus
+*       Zagor is dogfooding today
+<Linus> I'm glad I don't live in the northwest part of Stockholm
+<adi|home>      the menu on the recorder.. is it supposed to wrap hen you hit top or bottom?
+<adi|home>      or do we just stop?
+<Zagor> just stop
+<Zagor> i removed the wrap yesterday
+<adi|home>      okay..
+<adi|home>      then i just fixed the recorder menu..
+<Zagor> it was bugging, and became rather confusing on the 2-line player
+*       adi|home nods
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs01v-7-102.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<alkorr>        Hello
+<Zagor> hi alan!
+<Linus> yo!
+<Linus> major power blackout. our site is down
+<Zagor> very ironic, since I really feel 1.0 is release ready
+<adi|home>      hehe i noticed
+<alkorr>        arf
+<adi|home>      do we have any idea of this release works on the recorder or not?
+<Zagor> maybe it's a conspiracy instigated by archos? ;)
+<Zagor> it doesn't. the ata code isn't right
+<adi|home>      k...
+<adi|home>      btw.. have we given any thought to rolo yet?
+<adi|home>      on the menu, when you hit Version, whats supposed to happen?
+<Zagor> tought, yes. code, no
+<adi|home>      heheh k
+<adi|home>      what are your thoughts on it?
+<Zagor> version show the firmware version number and waits for a keypress
+<Zagor> rolo should work much like lilo on linux
+<adi|home>      um, well version on the recorder just shows 'CVS' 
+<adi|home>      im trying to figure out why the splash doesn't display right now
+<Zagor> yeah, that's the version right now :)
+<adi|home>      heheh k
+<Zagor> i've removed the delay from the splash. i forgot it was used in the menu too.
+<adi|home>      ahhh...
+<adi|home>      k..
+<Bagder>        adi|home: that version string is generated by the release tarball script
+*       adi|home nods
+<adi|home>      that makes sense
+<adi|home>      no fair, your using logic
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Bagder>        so if you'd build from a daily build tarball, you'd see a different version in there
+<alkorr>        Zagor: the ata code isn't right ?
+<adi|home>      Zagor: where was the delay you removed initially?
+<Zagor> alkorr: it fails for the recorder, for some reason
+<Zagor> adi|home: it was in show_splash()
+<Zagor> i removed it since I made splash appear during init instead of before
+<adi|home>      hmmm.. k
+<alkorr>        have a look on it Zagor
+<adi|home>      well.. it doesn't really display at all now because of the sim ;) but i assume on a recorder or player it would
+<Zagor> adi|home: yes it does
+<adi|home>      yes it does?
+<adi|home>      meaning it will on the player?
+<Zagor> it shows on target
+<adi|home>      k.. thats what i thought :L)(
+<adi|home>      :)
+<Zagor> init takes about a second on the player, and about 3ms in the simulator :)
+<adi|home>      hehe
+<alkorr>        it doesn't read at all ?
+<Zagor> ata_init() fails with -4
+<Bagder>        alkorr: it stops at "ata: -4"
+<alkorr>        freeze lock ?
+<Zagor> yup
+<alkorr>        no apparent locking ? i mean when accessing via a PC ?
+<Zagor> no we haven't seen a lock in a long time now
+<Bagder>        using with usb works fine
+---     Tumm^Awej is now known as Tumm
+<alkorr>        and if you comment the freeze_lock ?
+<adi|home>      okay, you can now see the splash screen from the menu
+<Zagor> alkorr: haven't tried that
+<adi|home>      Zagor, i fixed main.c
+<adi|home>      it now references show_logo
+<adi|home>      not show_splash
+<Zagor> ok, you fixed main_menu.c+h too?
+<adi|home>      show_splash has a delay in it, show_logo doesnt
+<adi|home>      only main_menu.h
+<adi|home>      .c rather
+<alkorr>        you should put -1 before command and -2 after command completion
+<Zagor> we need it in the header file or we'll get ab ugly compiler warning
+<Zagor> alkorr: how do you mean?
+<adi|home>      need what?
+<Bagder>        adi|home: we could make the "version" display show the logo above the version string, would look cool ;-)
+<Zagor> alkorr: ah in freeze_lock() you mean?
+<adi|home>      that i can do :)
+<Zagor> adi|home: declaration of show_logo()
+<adi|home>      Zagor: it was already that
+<adi|home>      show_splash called show_logo
+<adi|home>      originally
+<Bagder>        zagor and linus, we should work away the compiler warnings
+<alkorr>        more generay
+<adi|home>      show_splash is called in the menu function pointer
+<Zagor> no, just show_splash. if main.c now calls show_logo instead, the .h needs to be changed
+*       adi|home is now totally confused
+<adi|home>      menu.h makes not reference to show_splash or show_logo
+<adi|home>      main_menu.h only needs to know about show_splash
+<adi|home>      so all should be well
+<alkorr>        oh i have an idea ! the original recorder firmware maybe execute freeze_lock() so you cannot do twice !
+<alkorr>        i don't another explanation for the moment
+<Zagor> ahh, yes that's quite possible
+<alkorr>        i'm pretty sure about this
+<adi|home>      Bagder: ill get the version to display the splash screen tomorrow.. im off to bed...
+<adi|home>      night all
+<Bagder>        night adi
+<Zagor> night!
+<alkorr>        which version of newlib you use for rockbox ?
+<Bagder>        1.10
+<alkorr>        gluuup 3 MB... :(
+<Bagder>        yeah :-/
+<alkorr>        hope it will compile fine after downloading it
+<Bagder>        3MB package for some very few functions
+<Bagder>        (that we use I mean)
+<alkorr>        i thought you wanted to get rid of it...
+<Bagder>        it wouldn't be very hard to get rid of it now
+<alkorr>        quite now i want to compile rockbox :/
+<alkorr>        in fact it is only some file in app which are eager of newlib
+<Bagder>        no
+<Bagder>        strncmp, strncpy, strlen, memcpy etc
+<Bagder>        they're used all over
+<alkorr>        oh yeah it fails for app before the other directories
+<Bagder>        ah yes
+<alkorr>        recorder works now with ATA ?
+<alkorr>        by the way which version of gcc do you use ?
+<Bagder>        I use 3.0.3 for the cross compile
+<Zagor> alkorr: i'll test the recorder now
+<alkorr>        k
+<alkorr>        a question arises : if some arch*s firmware freezes the lock, we need to check after command failure if it is because the lock is always froozen to be correct
+<Bagder>        is the mpeg thread suitably disabled on the recorder?
+<alkorr>        well i read the ATA document
+<alkorr>        it is said that "Frozen mode is disabled by power off or
+<alkorr>        hardware reset. If SECURITY FREEZE LOCK is issued when the device is in Frozen mode, the command
+<alkorr>        executes and the device remains in Frozen mode.
+<alkorr>        not a good news
+<alkorr>        oh it seems you don't issue a hardware reset even if the function is here
+<alkorr>        "The device shall return command aborted if the command is not supported, or the device is in Locked
+<alkorr>        mode.
+<alkorr>        it doesn't mention there is an error if already frozen :/
+<Bagder>        mp3 streaming through a ssh tunnel really doesn't work well
+<Bagder>        for some odd reason
+<alkorr>        ok, SECURITY_FREEZE_LOCK is a non-data protocol
+<alkorr>        which means it issues an interrupt at completion
+<alkorr>        so be sure to disable interrupt before (i suppose it is so)
+<alkorr>        what is the main file ?
+<Zagor> apps/main.c
+<Linus> system_init disables all IRQ, and then we enable only those we actually use
+<Linus> and we don't use the ATA IRQ
+<alkorr>        i see that
+<alkorr>        but when you will use it, beware
+<alkorr>        what i mean you did nIEN after two non-data command
+<alkorr>        whereas it should be before
+<alkorr>        it doesn't change anything quite now but still a mistake :)
+<alkorr>        well, success ?
+<Zagor> well it doesn't say ata: -4, but it doesn't say anything else either :)
+<Linus> dead
+<Bagder>        ouch
+<alkorr>        try another command instead of freeze... just to say if ata controler is failing
+<Zagor> i'll try removing the splash
+<alkorr>        uh you try to see if it exist a slave ?
+<Linus> yes
+<alkorr>        so when you enter freeze, you are selecting slave ?
+<alkorr>        unless freeze works for both...
+<Linus> both?
+<Zagor> we are selecting master or slave first, then perform commands
+<Linus> since the drive may be strapped as slave, we must determine that first
+<alkorr>        yes because you leave DEV at the slave when you call freeze
+<alkorr>        ah ok
+<alkorr>        it is MASTER xor SLAVE
+<alkorr>        if a master is found, we don't look for a slave
+<alkorr>        sorry :)
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Linus (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     alkorr has quit ()
+<Bagder>        popping off like flies ;-)
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Linus (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> whoa. kernel panic!
+<Bagder>        really?
+<Linus> Lame USB driver
+<Zagor> yup. usb isn't quite bug free :)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        nasty
+<Bagder>        and its not even usb2?
+<Linus> plain usb1.1
+<Bagder>        did you see edx screendump of the win32 simulator?
+<Bagder>        edx's
+<Zagor> no
+<Bagder>        http://codeforce.d2g.com/rockbox/w32sim.jpg
+<Bagder>        kinda neat-looking
+<Bagder>        compared to the x11 one ;-)
+<Linus> Zagor has real problems with the USB driver...
+-->     RKK60 (OKE60@pD9EAB9DE.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     RKK60 is now known as edx
+<Linus> HELO
+<Bagder>        hey edx
+<edx>   hi
+<Bagder>        edx: you should take bigger care not to break the builds
+<Zagor> lunch time
+---     Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|lunch
+<Bagder>        all three broke
+<edx>   oh.. what did i do?
+<edx>   ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
+<Bagder>        you added an include of "bmp.h"
+<Linus|lunch>   WRONG, that's what you did! :-)
+<Bagder>        that doesn't exist
+<edx>   ohoh.. sorry
+<Bagder>        and should only ne included for recorder
+<edx>   but i need that one.. (and you should too) because teh bmp_read function is not defined otherwise
+<Bagder>        for the recorder, yes
+<Bagder>        you made it unconditional
+<edx>   ok.
+<edx>   i am very sorry. i have not thought that far...
+<edx>   did you fix anything yet - or shall I do now?
+<Bagder>        I'm only telling you so that you can be slightly more careful next time
+<Bagder>        I've fixed those things
+<edx>   i will.
+<Bagder>        it builds fine for all targets now
+<Bagder>        gah
+<Bagder>        it did
+<Bagder>        not anymore
+<edx>   what's the problem now..
+<Bagder>        adiamas latest patch
+<edx>   it builds for windows though
+<edx>   what did he do?
+<edx>   (btw.. i brought dir size to 144kb.. that should be ok, shouldn't it?)
+<Bagder>        forgot to commit a change I suspect
+<Bagder>        certainly, that's fine
+<edx>   is that file used by the simulator (i dont get any errors)
+<Bagder>        no it's in target-only code
+<edx>   the target code.. does it work? like how much can you do already?
+<Bagder>        it works for the player
+<Bagder>        there's still some ata issues on the recorder
+<edx>   ah..
+<edx>   it plays mp3s already?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<edx>   cool :)
+<edx>   we should implement a search possibility btw..
+<edx>   to search a directory (or the whole hd)
+<Bagder>        we should implement a lot ;-)
+<edx>   true. :)
+<--     elinenbe has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<Bagder>        the good part is that we can already write most of the code and try it in the simulators
+<Lion>  Hey everybody.  Anyone fix the loop-de-loop character bug?
+<Bagder>        Zagor said he believed he did
+<Lion>  Cool
+<Bagder>        then the big bad power blackout fell upon us
+<Lion>  Oh
+<Bagder>        so there's no daily builds and stuff available
+<Lion>  That's why the thing is down.
+<Bagder>        yeah
+<Bagder>        there's been a fire in some cables, the whole area went black
+<Bagder>        I could offer you a binary if you feel like giving it a go ;-)
+<Lion>  Sure, in a min... :)
+<Bagder>        http://storebror.haxx.se/archos/
+---     Bagder is now known as Bagder|food
+---     edx is now known as edx|homework
+---     Linus|lunch is now known as Linus
+---     Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor
+<Lion>  Anyone know how PsyKul's test went?
+<Zagor> yes
+<Lion>  And?
+<Zagor> the characters changed on-screen
+<Lion>  FUCK
+<Zagor> so the trick doesn't work
+<Lion>  Damn.
+<Lion>  Well, I'll need to come up with a more complex alg.
+<Zagor> heh, yeah
+<Zagor> reboot again :(
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<Lion>  He must run Windows
+<--     Linus (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Lion>  I think I have time this weekend to write some additinal layers for complex char management.
+-->     Linus (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> the splash screen bugs in the recorder
+<Linus> empty screen
+<Linus> seemingly dead
+<Linus> after removing the splash, it says: "ATA -5"
+---     Bagder|food is now known as Bagder
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs03v-5-28.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<alkorr>        i download gcc-core-3.0.3 is it enough ?
+<alkorr>        -ed
+<Bagder>        try!
+<Bagder>        Linus: show_logo() you mean?
+<Linus> alkorr: i'm not sure
+<Bagder>        it uses malloc()... so it should be moved to at least after the malloc init stuff
+<Zagor> Bagder: no, it was before adi changed
+<alkorr>        hey i don't want to wait for 1 hour to tell me there is something missing !!!
+<Bagder>        ok
+<alkorr>        so i prefer to be sure that gcc-core is enough before compiling it
+<Linus> alkorr: i have never used only the core version
+<Bagder>        me neither
+<alkorr>        good
+<alkorr>        well... i pray so
+<alkorr>        still down your website ?
+<Bagder>        yeps
+<alkorr>        i was looking for the HOW-TO-INSTALL-GCC-AND-NEWLIB-FOR-SH-TARGET page 
+<Bagder>        it should be available on the sf mirror too, right Zagor?
+<Linus> dead today. Look at our sourceforge mirror
+<alkorr>        okay i try the redhat page
+<alkorr>        sourceforge mirror ?
+<Zagor> rockbox.sourceforge.net
+<Bagder>        http://rockbox.sourceforge.net/rockbox/cross-gcc.html
+<alkorr>        ok, i didn't know that
+<alkorr>        ok see you later
+<--     alkorr has quit ()
+<Bagder>        Zagor: perhaps the splash was made before the malloc init before too?
+<Zagor> yes
+<Bagder>        but otoh, I doubt you had a bmp stored there
+<Zagor> actually i had
+<Bagder>        so what does -5 mean?
+<Bagder>        oh you did, well that explains something! ;-)
+<Zagor> uhhh... must... remove... new emacs eye candy...
+<Bagder>        emacs 21?
+<Zagor> yes, on storebror
+<Bagder>        check my .emacs
+<Zagor> i did. i still get a blinking cursor.
+<Bagder>        in the bottom
+<Bagder>        oh
+<Bagder>        blink-cursor
+<Bagder>        "Non-nil means blinking cursor mode is active"
+<Zagor> ahhhhh
+<Zagor> splash-before-malloc_init was probably the crash reason
+<Zagor> with this flaky usb driver, i'm not sure I feel like experimenting too much though :(
+<Linus> still, the ATA problem persists...
+<Zagor> yes
+<edx|homework>  ... is there a good mp3-download client for linux?
+<Linus> It's time to debug-enable a Recorder...
+<Zagor> edx|homework: audiogalaxy
+<edx|homework>  preferably console...
+<Zagor> Linus: yep
+---     edx|homework is now known as edx
+<Bagder>        edx: audiogalaxy is the best any-platform
+<edx>   and: audiogalaxy preserves users from downloading some copyrighted files :/
+<Bagder>        leech now before RIAA closes it down ;-)
+<edx>   but i need a console :)
+<Bagder>        yeah, like 2 of them million ones
+<edx>   consoel program.
+<Zagor> edx: naah, just misspell the name some and it works again
+<Zagor> AG is console
+<Zagor> +browser
+<edx>   cool
+<edx>   cuz i'd like to run it via ssh
+<Zagor> you use their web site to select songs and then run a simple download client on your machine
+<Zagor> noninteractive
+<edx>   i use ag for windows and normally i find stuff but there are some files that are really hard to find
+<Linus> of course
+<Linus> they can't have it all
+<Linus> and the most popular ones are filtered
+<edx>   hard to find because they are copyrighted. thats what i meant
+<edx>   yea
+<Bagder>        I'll still have to see a better system appear
+<Linus> that's why you'll find artists like "Madona" and "Britny Spers"
+<Bagder>        AG is a killer system just because it is not strict p2p ;-)
+<Zagor> edx: try "spiffy's AG tools", it automates searches for full albums. even tries misspellings and things in case of blocked download :)
+<Zagor> http://freshmeat.net/projects/agqt/
+<Bagder>        I found "fags" the other day, a free AG sattelite clone
+<edx>   zagor: great :)
+<Zagor> Bagder: good name :)
+<Linus> "fags" :-)
+<edx>   "Nap is a console napster client written by Kevin Sullivan" That uses WinMX which is cool to :)
+<Bagder>        yeah, kinda fun
+*       Zagor is off to do mind-numbingly boring work
+<Linus> He's not joking
+<Linus> it's really boring
+<Bagder>        but he's out from there starting next week, right?
+<Bagder>        so he should have as boring as possible now!
+*       Bagder grins
+<Linus> he might stay a little longer after all...they are discussing it.
+<Bagder>        aaah
+<Linus> a few weeks longer
+<Linus> but again, maybe not...
+<Bagder>        ata_spindown() could be modified to return different return codes, then we could easier see which of its operations that fail on the recorder
+<edx>   hmm you linux guys have to help me
+<edx>   i cant get a program to install..
+<edx>   it has an "install" with it and when i type like install /srcdir/ /destdir/ it does about nothing
+<Bagder>        linux programs usually don't get installed with 'install'
+<Bagder>        did you download a binary package?
+<Linus> what program is it?
+<edx>   that's "nap"
+<edx>   napster client for linux
+<edx>   it is a binary package, yes
+<Bagder>        and there's no INSTALL or README document ?
+<edx>   AUTHORS    ChangeLog  README          nap          napster.txt
+<edx>   COPYING    INSTALL    README.win      nap-session  server
+<edx>   COPYRIGHT  NEWS       get-servers.sh  napping      userguide.html
+<edx>   there is.. yea
+<Bagder>        so read it ;-)
+<edx>   thought INSTALL was a program :/
+<Bagder>        you can probably run 'nap' just as it is
+<edx>   i cant
+<Linus> error message?
+<edx>   AUTHORS    ChangeLog  README          nap          napster.txt
+<edx>   COPYING    INSTALL    README.win      nap-session  server
+<edx>   COPYRIGHT  NEWS       get-servers.sh  napping      userguide.html
+<edx>   sorry
+<edx>   bash: nap: command not found
+<Bagder>        ./nap
+<Linus> ./nap
+<edx>   that's what i get.. ahhhh
+<edx>   ok thanks.
+<edx>   ./nap: 1: Syntax error: "(" unexpected
+<edx>   hm
+<Linus> . is seldom in the PATH
+<Bagder>        in unix you don't usually have current directory in your path
+<Bagder>        edx: do 'file nap'
+<edx>   ok
+<Bagder>        it displays what kind of file it is
+<edx>   nap: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, stripped
+<Bagder>        now, read the INSTALL fil ;-)
+<Linus> ok ther read the README
+<edx>   the readme file is helping me ... i guess i can do it ;)
+<Bagder>        file
+<Linus> otherwise it would have been named IGNOREME :-)
+<edx>   the readme just tells me how to compile it :/
+<edx>   but those are already binaries
+<Linus> maybe it wants a config file
+<edx>   what is the "su" command supposed to do?
+<Bagder>        you need a linux course
+<Bagder>        su makes you super user
+<edx>   aha
+<edx>   well i do it with ssh and the command wont work
+<edx>   no matter i am a super user ;0
+<Bagder>        "wont work"?
+<Bagder>        what does that mean?
+<edx>   the ocmmand doesnt exist
+<Bagder>        su?
+<edx>   yea
+<Bagder>        you just don't have a proper path
+<edx>   what path is it supposed to be in?
+<Bagder>        there's not a linux system in the universe without su
+<Bagder>        /bin/su on my box
+<edx>   well maybe.. i dont need it anyways :)
+<edx>   seems not to be in there :/
+<edx>   well the nap thing says the same as before (unexpected ))
+<Bagder>        so get the source instead
+<Bagder>        it'll save you from this trouble
+<edx>   ok.
+*       Bagder is a prefer-the-source man
+<edx>   hehe
+<edx>   so now i have a tar.bz2 file... i dont even know how to unpack that ;P
+<Bagder>        bzip -dc [file] |tar -xf -
+<Bagder>        bzip2 
+<edx>   ok
+<edx>   *slow 120 mhz machin working*
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<edx>   oh its a tar.gz (downloaded wrong file lol)
+<edx>   how do i do that
+<Bagder>        so use gzip instead of bzip2
+<edx>   gunzip somethin |tar -xf -
+<edx>   same params?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<edx>   ./confugre i gues..
+<Bagder>        yes
+<edx>   cool.. seems to work :)
+<edx>   (its rare that something on linux works for me haha)
+<edx>   btw.. do you know "Knoppix"
+<Bagder>        nope
+<edx>   that's a linux distribution
+<edx>   it has been written by the brother of my gymnastics trainer..
+<Bagder>        making a linux distribution is not very hard
+<Bagder>        you could make one too
+<edx>   i have never seen it (but i got a bootable cd of it yesterday.. will try)
+<edx>   *making*
+<edx>   bah.. warnings :/
+<Bagder>        warnings are just warnings
+<edx>   i know ;) hate them even so
+<Bagder>        so fix them and mail back a patch!
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<edx>   nap.h:112: warning: `struct sockaddr' declared inside parameter list - they could do that themselves if tehy wanted to :)
+<Bagder>        indeed
+<edx>   heh takes quite long the compiling :)
+<Bagder>        just wait until you built that sh cross compiler ;-)
+<edx>   how long did it take you?
+<Bagder>        I don't know
+<Bagder>        it takes a while
+<edx>   hah!
+<Linus> especially building all those newlib libraries
+<edx>   finished
+<edx>   *make install*
+<Bagder>        usually you can't do that as a mere user
+<edx>   that looks good - not the same mistake (just some weird characters)
+<Zagor> XFree86, now *that's* a compile for men
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        staroffice! ;-)
+<Linus> Mozilla
+<edx>   Created config directory à
+<edx>   aà
+<edx>   ax/.nap
+<edx>   Reading user config file /home/edx/.nap/napconf...
+<edx>   /home/edx/.nap/napconf: file not found.
+<edx>   User: 
+<Bagder>        that office beast is way bigger
+<Zagor> oooh, cheating ;)
+<edx>   ahh that's what its supposed to mean
+<edx>   on the ssh thing its some crappy stuff :(
+<edx>   Password for user edx (optional): 
+<Bagder>        so you need to read the docs to see what to populate that file with
+<edx>   hm why is the font fucked up?
+<Bagder>        the font?
+<edx>   well it displays like chineese characters in the ssh console
+<edx>   if i paste it in mirc the text gets normal :)
+<Bagder>        so, that's the ssh client's problem
+<Bagder>        reset the terminal
+<Linus> Do we have any brave Recorder lab rats online?
+*       Bagder looks at edx and grins
+*       edx thanks bagder for his tip :)
+<edx>   now it seems to work again
+<Linus> our USB driver is too nasty today
+<edx>   i have a recorder.
+<Linus> i might want you to test a mod
+<edx>   ok
+<edx>   if it wont fuck up anything on my recorder :)
+<edx>   send it to me
+<Linus> crap! ok, I'll ask someone else... :_)
+<edx>   :o)
+<edx>   what does the mod do?
+<Linus> an ATA test
+<edx>   whats the worst thing that could happen?
+<Bagder>        you mean that *COULD* happen or that is likely to happen? B-]
+<Linus> total disaster
+<Linus> like "ATA-6"
+<Bagder>        oh no! not -6!! aaaaaah
+<edx>   lol whats that
+<Bagder>        just an error code
+<edx>   hm the napster client works but i cant search anything - bah (server always says "bad search request")
+<edx>   what would total disaster be?
+<edx>   as long as the hd is still usable afterwards that's no problem hehe
+<--     Linus (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<edx>   heh - there he goes
+<Bagder>        it isn't likely to destroy any data or anything, after all this works on the player
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Linus (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<edx>   "/usr/bin/install: invalid user `root'"
+<edx>   lol
+<Bagder>        your system is screwed up
+<edx>   it is not
+<edx>   i jsut dont have a root user :P
+<Bagder>        sane systems have a root user
+<edx>   mkuser .. whats the command to create a new user?
+<Zagor> what distro is this?
+<edx>   cygwin
+<edx>   and whats the default password for root in cygwin lol
+<Bagder>        you said linux before
+<Bagder>        I mean, why were you surprised the linux executable didn't work?
+<edx>   it worked.
+<edx>   after i compiledi t.
+<Bagder>        yes
+<edx>   i thoguht cygwin was about eaqual to linux lol
+<Bagder>        hah
+<Bagder>        quite far from 
+<edx>   bah
+<edx>   Zagor: the AG client wont work on cygwin ... I chose the static version - if I get the one without glibc .. may that work?
+<Bagder>        hardly
+<Bagder>        those are linux binaries
+<Bagder>        right?
+<edx>   yea
+<Bagder>        cygwin is windows, not linux
+<edx>   that is hmm.. not so good.. all that...
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Linus (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<Xunil96>       hmm... i take it no daily builds are available given that the web server(s) is(are) down
+<Bagder>        right
+<Bagder>        I have very recent ones available though
+<Bagder>        http://storebror.haxx.se/archos/
+<Xunil96>       cool... i finally found my usb cable for my jukebox and i wanted to try rockbox
+<Bagder>        that's a player or studio?
+<Xunil96>       player
+<Xunil96>       er
+<Xunil96>       wait, no it's a studio 10
+*       Xunil96 chuckles
+<Xunil96>       aparrently i'm not with it today
+<Bagder>        well, that's the same binary
+<Xunil96>       player-archos.mod?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        call it 'archos.mod' when you put it on your disk
+*       Xunil96 nods
+<Xunil96>       interesting
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Xunil96>       the interface is still coming along, i take it
+<Bagder>        oh yes
+<Bagder>        it's very basic still
+<Xunil96>       still, darned impressive :)
+<Bagder>        any noticable bugs?
+<Xunil96>       hrm...
+<Xunil96>       not bugs, no
+<Xunil96>       well
+<Xunil96>       you can't seem to stop the music :)
+*       Bagder still has to see rockbox running
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Xunil96>       but i don't consider that a bad thing
+<Zagor> stop isn't implemented, i forgot to check that in :)
+*       Xunil96 chuckles
+<Xunil96>       so what's this written in?  SH1 asm? 
+<Bagder>        C
+<Zagor> C mostly
+<Xunil96>       really!
+<Zagor> yup
+<Xunil96>       hrm... need another developer?  :)
+<Zagor> always
+<Bagder>        sure!
+<Zagor> dive in!
+<Xunil96>       cool!
+<Xunil96>       i'll have to get the dev environment set up at home
+<edx>   Xunil96: What OS do you have?
+<Zagor> man, emacs21 is slooow :(
+<Xunil96>       edx, several; at home i have netbsd and windows; this server i'm ircing from is debian linux... i have an ultra enterprise 2 i switch back and forth between solaris 8 and netbsd
+<edx>   hehe
+*       Bagder notices that Xunil96 seems experienced enough in the area of OSes ;-)
+<Xunil96>       heheh
+<Bagder>        Xunil96: you'll enjoy this page: http://rockbox.sourceforge.net/rockbox/cross-gcc.html
+<Xunil96>       i'm a professional sysadmin :)
+<Zagor> actually, STOP was checked in in v1.10 but I managed to remove it again in 1.12 :)
+<edx>   lol
+<Bagder>        nice going Zagor ;-)
+<Bagder>        that's iterative programming
+<Bagder>        do the same thing many times ;-)
+<edx>   *** The edb-config script installed by edb could not be found
+<edx>   what is edb?
+<Zagor> yeah, it's so fun I want to do it over and over again!
+<Xunil96>       hmm
+<Xunil96>       how do i shut off my archos, now?  :)
+-->     Linus (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        pull out your power cable, press off
+<Zagor> stop
+<Bagder>        oops
+<Xunil96>       ah, there we go
+<edx>   Bagder, for Player simulation, how did you define lcd_puts ... you had some trick there, rihgt?
+<Bagder>        edx: I made them use the recorder-simulator's lcd_puts() using the smallest font
+<Zagor> x11 sim build doesn't work
+<Bagder>        works for me
+<Bagder>        you completely up-to-date ?
+<Zagor> yup
+<Bagder>        oh, you mean it doesn't work when running?
+<Zagor> it doesn't compile
+<Bagder>        what breaks?
+<Zagor> debug.h:31: warning: invalid character in macro parameter name
+<Bagder>        that a player sim?
+<Zagor> nopp, recorder
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Bagder>        you
+<Bagder>        're using a rather old gcc
+<Zagor> eh, i'm using your...
+<Bagder>        it doesn't like that #define line
+<Bagder>        try /usr/local/gcc3/bin
+<Bagder>        ;-)
+<Zagor> ok
+<Bagder>        I only use that old one for Linux kernel builds ,-)
+<Zagor> ahh, better
+<edx>   hmm i dont understand why lcd_puts is undefined...
+<Bagder>        /usr/local/sh/bin is for the sh-stuff btw
+<Zagor> yeah, i found those
+<edx>   Bagder, compiling with ARCHOS_PLAYER and SIMULATOR set, lcd_puts should be defined in lcd.c, right?
+<Bagder>        bzzzt, wrong
+<edx>   why not?
+<edx>   #if defined(HAVE_LCD_BITMAP) || defined(SIMULATOR) /* not CHARCELLS */
+<Bagder>        don't define ARCHOS_PLAYER
+<edx>   hm what then?
+<Bagder>        HAVE_LCD_CHARCELLS and HAVE_PLAYER_KEYPAD
+<edx>   aha... well.. .. ok
+<Bagder>        ARCHOS_PLAYER is intended for target
+<edx>   ok
+<edx>   still, lcd_puts is undefined :(
+<Bagder>        so, write it
+<Bagder>        check out the x11 code
+<edx>   hm looking at lcd.c i cannot see why it would not be defined!
+<Bagder>        lcd-x11.c
+<edx>   but please explain why it is not defined in lcd.c
+<Bagder>        the x11 sim defines lcd_puts() to something else
+<Bagder>        as that is the wrong function
+<edx>   hmmm
+<edx>   but where is the condition...
+<edx>   there is no condition that skips that part of code
+<Bagder>        chardef.h and charundef.h contain the #defines
+<edx>   ahhh
+<edx>   ok
+<edx>   hmm the recorder uses functions in lcd.c - couldnt the player do that too?
+<Bagder>        it does
+<edx>   but not lcd_puts.
+<Bagder>        yes it does
+<edx>   arghl!
+<edx>   no it doesnt
+<Bagder>        line 336
+<edx>   (why would you define it in x11-lcd.c if it was defined in lcd.c)??
+<Bagder>        you mean the player-simulator?
+<edx>   yup.
+<edx>   my recorder simulator uses the code from lcd.c
+<Bagder>        well, you can do it however you like, but the target function lcd_puts() on the player writes to hardware using lcd_write()
+<Bagder>        do you wanna simulate that? B-]
+<edx>   the player could use it too... no problem.
+<Bagder>        wrong
+<Bagder>        read the code
+<Bagder>        line 336
+<Bagder>        can you use that?
+<edx>   read further
+<edx>   line 4xx
+<edx>   theres another function
+<edx>   i use that.
+<Bagder>        that's for the recorder
+<edx>   when i do not use chardef / charundef it works :P
+<edx>   yea but the simulator does not care whether its for the recorder or the player
+<edx>   the functions are defined, thats it.
+<Bagder>        yes you can use that for the player simulator
+<Bagder>        I wrote my stuff before those functions looked the same
+<edx>   ill just put empty chardef / undef files into win32 dir then (?)
+<edx>   or do i rather change lcd.c not to include them when useing win32 simulator.
+<Bagder>        yes, do that, and I'll work on removing them in the x11 side
+<edx>   do what now?
+<edx>   editing lcd.c?
+<Bagder>        use empty files
+<edx>   ok
+<Bagder>        I'll fix the x11 stuff to not use that and then we can remove them
+<edx>   player code compiles on the simulator as well now.
+<Bagder>        but it'll look funny with your picture ;-)
+<Bagder>        hey
+<Bagder>        it won't work
+<edx>   what wont work?
+<edx>   (and what are the dimensions in pixels of the player?)
+<Bagder>        11 characters, 2 lines
+<edx>   55*16?
+<edx>   or 66*16?
+<edx>   whats the dimension of one charcell?
+<Bagder>        7 or 8 pixels high
+<edx>   8 i think
+<edx>   whidth?
+<edx>   6?
+<Bagder>        but there's room for some fixed icons too 
+<edx>   hm.. yea i have to see what i do with them - are they supported by your simulator yet?
+<Bagder>        well since you use the lcd_puts() you could assume 8x6 :-)
+<Bagder>        why it won't work:
+<Bagder>        the player needs no lcd_update() to work
+<Bagder>        the recorder needs lcd_update() to update the screen
+<edx>   aha
+<edx>   hm
+<Zagor> dir sorting committed
+<Bagder>        c00l
+<edx>   where is LCD_HEIGHT defined btw.
+<Zagor> lcd.h
+<Bagder>        lcd.h
+<edx>   hm.
+<Bagder>        edx: but I'll make a fix for it
+<Bagder>        when I remove the char(un)def.h
+<Linus> and now there is a slight possibility that the STOP key actually stops the music. :-)
+<edx>   Bagder: Ok :)
+<Zagor> oh no, qsort broke the build :-(
+<edx>   well the player code works so far anyways
+<Bagder>        edx: I think that's because there are lots of lcd_update() in the code already, that are defined to not do anything on the player
+<Bagder>        Zagor: why did qsort break the build?
+<Zagor> it uses __udivsi3 which we can't find. very strange.
+<Bagder>        hm
+<Bagder>        that's libgcc
+<Zagor> yeah, except it's not there
+<Bagder>        edx: I removed the char(un)def.h usage now
+<Bagder>        Zagor: try copying the qsort.c file from newlib and build it yourself
+<Bagder>        not that it would make a difference...
+<edx>   hmhm Zagor, this AGSattelite addon tool wont find any album - no matter what i enter
+<edx>   it find songs thogh ;)
+<Zagor> Bagder: i'll try that
+<Zagor> works just fine
+<Zagor> veeery strange
+<Bagder>        amen
+<Bagder>        we could consider copying the files we need from newlib and cut it off as a dependency
+<Zagor> yes
+<Zagor> they aren't many
+<Bagder>        just because what Alan said: 3MB tarball
+<Zagor> 10 functions
+<Bagder>        yeah
+<Bagder>        10 small functions too
+<Zagor> 9 if we declare 'errno' ourselves :)
+<Bagder>        hehehe
+<edx>   haha Zagor - that tool is soo great! that wsa just what i was looking for (agqt)
+<Zagor> i'll try it
+<Zagor> edx: nice
+<Bagder>        http://www.casio.com/corporate/pressroom.cfm?act=2&pr=5530
+<Bagder>        tiny toys
+<Zagor> oooh, that's small!
+<--     Linus (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<edx>   Bagder, Have you commited lcd.c yet (without chardef.h inclusion)?
+<Bagder>        I did
+<Bagder>        lcd.h it was ;-)
+<Bagder>        but I fixed lcd.c too
+<edx>   hmhm
+<edx>   line 362 lcd.c
+<edx>   #include <chardef.h>
+<Bagder>        oops
+<Zagor> i don't have time to fix the qsort problem right now, gotta run. see you guys!
+<Bagder>        bye Zagor
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<Bagder>        now then!
+<Bagder>        ;-)
+<Bagder>        later, I'll setup automatic builds
+<Bagder>        so that we can instantly if any particular build breaks due to a commit
+---     ChanServ gives channel operator status to Bagder
+<--     edx has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+---     Bagder has changed the topic to: web site might remain dead until saturday! :-(
+<Xunil96>       what happened with the website?
+<Bagder>        power blackout
+<Bagder>        in the whole area
+<Bagder>        huuuuge
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Xunil96>       yow!
+<Bagder>        yeah :-/
+<Xunil96>       well when you can get at the site again, i'd be happy to offer my colo as a mirror site in case something like this happens again
+<Bagder>        well, we have a mirror on sourceforge already
+<Zagor_>        we have a mirror at rockbox.sourceforge.net
+*       Xunil96 nods
+<Zagor_>        thanks anyway :)
+<Bagder>        just that some services, like the daily builds, run on that particular server only
+*       Xunil96 nods
+<Bagder>        I regret that I didn't commit the tools so I could set it up quickly elsewhere ;-/
+<Bagder>        I'm off
+<Bagder>        see ya tomorrow
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Zagor_ has quit ("bye")
+-->     edx (OKE60@pD9EAB9DE.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<adi|coding>    edx you still around?
+---     adi|coding is now known as adi|work
+<edx>   adi.. still there?
+<adi|work>      yeah mate..
+<adi|work>      just wanted to let you know i commited the file that i forogot too last night.  not sure if you need to update your windows side.
+<adi|work>      i can let ya know what i changed
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<adi|work>      hey zagor..
+<adi|work>      i check in the file i forgot to check in last night...
+<Zagor_>        hi
+<Zagor_>        ah, good
+<adi|work>      yeah... now the x11 sim works correctly
+<adi|work>      though i think the win side prob needs to be updated
+<adi|work>      btw... is there something wrong with the commit mailings?
+<adi|work>      i haven't gotten any
+<Zagor_>        yeah, the mailing list is on the same server as the web server. blacked out
+<adi|work>      ahhh.. okay
+<Zagor_>        *really* annoying
+<adi|work>      hehe i can imagine
+<Zagor_>        you shouldn't use absolute numbers to sleep(). use fractions or multiples of HZ instead. that way we can change the timer tick freq if we want to
+<adi|work>      ahh.. okay...
+<adi|work>      want me to fix or you want to get it?
+<Zagor_>        i'll get it
+<adi|work>      already got it
+<Zagor_>        ah :)
+<edx>   zagor.. how do i get to a menu ... on the simulator? lol
+<edx>   hi adi
+<edx>   it compiles without probs.
+<Zagor_>        edx: press a menu key. ENTER on player simulator or /,*,- on recorder
+<Zagor_>        on numeric keypad
+<edx>   k
+<edx>   heh tetris still isnt fixed
+<edx>   i had a fix... but i threw it over.. somehow ;)
+<edx>   i got the game twice the size and the lines disappeared correctly ;)
+<Zagor_>        nice :)
+<edx>   ill have a look at it again soon...
+<adi|work>      yeah.. when you get that edx..
+<adi|work>      let me know...
+<adi|work>      :)
+<edx>   i have got that.. you wanna know what it was? (i still remember)
+<adi|work>      you have it in code? or is it only a few lines fix?
+<adi|work>      cause i was thinking more of a 'zoom' feature
+<edx>   i was talking about the line disappearing stuff..
+<edx>                       virtual[i*max_x] = virtual[((i-1)*max_x)];
+<edx>   think it was that line... well i'll see to that later
+<adi|work>      ahh.. okay..
+<adi|work>      cant really work on it right now... should be coding for the office ;)
+<Zagor_>        wee, I just removed all global variables
+<Zagor_>        hmm, where's a good place to put errno ?
+<adi|work>      id say main.c
+<adi|work>      assuming your having it global
+<--     Xunil96 has quit ("installing NetBSD")
+<Zagor_>        only i need to put it somewhere in firmware, since it's used by code there
+<adi|work>      ahhh... 
+<adi|work>      id say system.c would work
+<adi|work>      either that or panic.c
+<adi|work>      since anythng that triggers an errno is likely to cause problems
+<Zagor_>        only system.c is mostly about setting up the cpu. and panic is very narrow too. :-) (what, me picky?)
+<adi|work>      okay debug.c?
+<Zagor_>        hmm
+*       adi|work winds up his frozen trout and prepares to whap Zagor_
+<Zagor_>        i just want it Right :)
+<adi|work>      heheh
+<adi|work>      opinion is like a man dating.. it is never right ;)
+<Zagor_>        lol
+---     adi|work is now known as lou_soyur
+---     lou_soyur is now known as adi
+---     adi is now known as adi|work
+<--     Zagor_ has quit ("bye")
+-->     huz|taff (~df@AToulouse-103-1-1-242.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<huz|taff>      hi the server is out of order ? 
+<huz|taff>      bjorn.haxx.se : 2 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss
+<huz|taff>      :(
+<adi|work>      yeah sorta...
+<adi|work>      they had an electical probl...
+<adi|work>      their in a blackout mostly
+<huz|taff>      oki, I hadn't watched at topic (sorry for my english :)
+<huz|taff>      s/watched/look
+<huz|taff>      good luck for the rest of your project, i look forward testing beta of your work
+<huz|taff>      ++
+<huz|taff>      s/rest/continue ?
+<huz|taff>      .. bon tant pis, bonne chance à vous, joli travail, j'attends avec impatience le fruit de votre boulot pour tester tout ça.
+<--     huz|taff (~df@AToulouse-103-1-1-242.abo.wanadoo.fr) has left #rockbox
+<--     edx has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<adam>  howdy
+<adam>  yeah, I noticed bjorn.haxx.se was down
+---     dw|gone is now known as dwihno
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<dwihno>        Good morning Dr. Zagor
+<Zagor_>        hi
+<adi|home>      morning dwihno
+<adi|home>      hey zag
+<dwihno>        Good morning adi
+<Zagor_>        Hey, look.  Howard's being eaten.
+<adi|home>      huh?
+<Zagor_>        it's a Monty Python reference
+<Zagor_>        http://www.stone-dead.asn.au/movies/meaning-of-life/01-introduction.html
+*       dwihno brought some tea bags to work today
+<dwihno>        Some evil dudes has consumed all the bags! :(
+<adi|home>      hehehe
+<dwihno>        That's serious shit man! :)
+<dwihno>        I just realized some serious stuff!
+<dwihno>        I'm gonna have a metting when the france-zenegal soccer game takes place!
+<Zagor_>        the what?
+*       adi|home nods
+*       adi|home slaps Zagor_
+<adi|home>      world cup man..
+<adi|home>      where have YOU been!!!!
+<Zagor_>        world cup? cup'o what? ;)
+*       adi|home does the world cup shuffle
+<adi|home>      and you call yourself a non-american
+<Zagor_>        haha. well i'm not much of a soccer fan
+<dwihno>        :)
+<adi|home>      i thought everyone in the world (with the exception of americans) loved soccer :)
+<adi|home>      ahhh SINNER!!!
+<dwihno>        Yeah
+<dwihno>        Shame on you Zagor!
+*       adi|home beats Zagor_ mercilessly with a Canadian
+<Zagor_>        oh no! not a Canadian!
+<adi|home>      Yes!!! a Canadian
+*       Zagor_ sobs
+<adi|home>      and careful you.. or i shall bring out........
+<adi|home>      THE COMFY CHAIR!!!!
+<Zagor_>        ahhhhhhh!
+*       adi|home cackls "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!"
+<dwihno>        Hahahaha
+*       dwihno rofl's :)
+<dwihno>        hahahahaha
+<Zagor_>        "I like chinese, they only come up to your knees..."
+<adi|home>      "Never be rude to an Arab..."
+<adi|home>      "A spik or a wop or a jew...."
+<Zagor_>        Come in, my little loves. I've got no option but to sell you all for scientific experiments.
+*       adi|home puts on a cheesy french accent
+<dwihno>        Hey, I finally decided what computer to buy ;D
+<adi|home>      Zagor_ would you like a mint? Oh.. but it is a wafer thin mint....
+<Zagor_>        bugger off, i'm full!
+<adi|home>      ahh.. it is hardly anything.. so thin...
+<adi|home>      surely you have room for a mint
+<Zagor_>        bring me a bucket...
+*       dwihno smiles widely
+*       dwihno tries to remember who gave him the dell tip
+<adi|home>      "Ah.. I'd like to have an arguement..."
+<dwihno>        A rather funny thing... They had this "buy computer online and save $"-deal, which expired yesterday... Today it's reassigned with a new stopdate :)
+<dwihno>        Lucky me
+*       dwihno sings some solid base hits
+<adi|home>      lol
+<adi|home>      "you toffy nosed maloderous pervert!"
+<Zagor_>        swedish channel 3 is running all 46 episodes of "Monty Python's Flying Circus"
+<Zagor_>        at 03.50 in the morning!
+<adi|home>      i hate you severly...
+<dwihno>        Only sick bastards are up that early! :)
+<dwihno>        (or, that late) ;)
+*       adi|home glances at the clock and realizes he still ahve 2 hours till he is a sick bastard
+<Zagor_>        hehe
+<dwihno>        hehe
+<dwihno>        I need to make myself a nice, hot, cup of tea (and hide my teabags from the vultures)
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<dwihno>        Is the any difference between the mp3 decoding circuits btw?
+<adi|home>      shhh Bagder is back
+*       dwihno shuts up and låtsas like it's regnar
+<Bagder>        dwihno: yes there are differences
+<Zagor_>        dwihno: lots. see the data sheets
+*       Bagder spots Zagor at this hour, *gosh*
+<Zagor_>        i'm having breakfast :)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<dwihno>        I installed linux on my development-box a couple of nights ago, and the kernel gave me some warnings about data integrity...
+<dwihno>        I checked the source and the message was in some probing function, am I using an old kernel or such? :)
+<Zagor_>        usb-storage says that every time
+<dwihno>        (with the archos, that is)
+<Zagor_>        i don't know why
+<Zagor_>        ignore it
+<dwihno>        I thought I did something wrong and got scared I'd get that "HD lock" thingy :)
+<Zagor_>        hehe. no worries.
+<dwihno>        It was the first time I did something USB-ish on linux
+<Zagor_>        O Lord,...
+<dwihno>        (connecting a mouse, and the archos, that is)
+<Zagor_>        ...ooh, You are so big,...
+<Zagor_>        ...so absolutely huge.
+<Zagor_>        Gosh, we're all really impressed down here, I can tell You.
+<dwihno>        That's it! No more all-nighters for you! :)
+<Zagor_>        Bagder: newlib is no more
+<Bagder>        kewl
+<Zagor_>        nor any global variables
+*       Bagder fires up ssh-agent and gets ready to do some cvs upping
+<Bagder>        did ya tell Alan? B-]
+<dwihno>        No global variables?!
+*       dwihno is gonna miss them
+<adi|home>      so how are we doing things w/o globals btw?
+<Zagor_>        oh just fine :)
+<adi|home>      smart ass ;)
+<adi|home>      what are we doing instead of them :)
+<Zagor_>        the only one that really required an API change was the parameter table from disk_init()
+<Zagor_>        disk_init() now returns a pointer to its' local table instead
+<adi|home>      nods
+<dwihno>        Cute
+<Zagor_>        the others were mostly just lazy coding
+<dwihno>        Now my tea is done. Thank you, dr. microwave.
+<Bagder>        ok, tarball size now at 216K
+<Bagder>        including win32 sim
+<Zagor_>        ah, good
+<Bagder>        edx shrunk his pic with ~60% and we got rid of that 290K .aps file
+<dwihno>        http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/en/020530/1/mq2.html
+<dwihno>        NOOOOOOOO!
+*       Bagder refuses
+<Bagder>        I'll hide from *all* darned soccer
+<Zagor_>        i'll have my world cup black, please. no milk or sugar.
+*       adi|home points out that he didn't like using globals.. that you made me :)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+*       Bagder slaps the 'saint' sticker on adi|home
+*       adi|home polishes off his 'saint' sticker...
+<Bagder>        no one ran linus recorder tests yet?
+*       adi|home notices Bagder's spelling of 'saint' seems to look like 'satan'
+<adi|home>      if you can promise me i won't toast my recorder, and can get me a binary.. ill test
+*       dwihno looks like a TV producer when he walks around the office wearing his philips HP910 headphones
+<Bagder>        I don't think Linus committed his test code
+<Zagor_>        did he have an ata test?
+*       adi|home screams 'Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! Im being represed!'
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        Zagor_: yes
+<Zagor_>        Some nights it was so cold, we could hardly move, but Blackie'd be out there
+<Zagor_>        slicing the lemons, mixing the sugar and the almonds.
+<Zagor_>        I mean, you try trying to get butter to melt at fifteen degrees below zero!
+<Zagor_>        There's love in that cake.
+*       Zagor_ is having his Python appreciation hour
+<Bagder>        "I'm not dead yet"
+<dwihno>        Why does it smell like someone has thrown up in the office?
+<dwihno>        This beat of my heart goes na na na *sings*
+*       adi|home hands dwihno a pail, cause its obvious he can't carry a song w/o one ;)
+<dwihno>        :~( you mean ass! :)
+<adi|home>      if your not picked on.. yoru not loved
+<adi|home>      thats why we leave Bagder alone 
+<adi|home>      :)
+<Zagor_>        well, i'm off to work. see you shortly.
+<--     Zagor_ has quit ("bye")
+*       Bagder watches the crowd in silence
+<adi|home>      "and pray there's intelligent life up there in space, cause there's bugger all down here on earth.
+<adi|home>      adios
+<dwihno>        There's no way to create a playlist without attaching the player to the PC and making them there?
+<adi|home>      not right now, now
+<Bagder>        dwihno: you mean the regular firmware?
+<dwihno>        yup
+<Bagder>        hold down play in a dir
+<dwihno>        I guess I have to stick with the regular for awhile :)
+<Bagder>        it'll make a playlist of that dir and all beneath it
+<dwihno>        hm
+<dwihno>        coolers
+<adi|home>      does the player have LCD_WIDTH defined?
+<Bagder>        no
+<adi|home>      k
+<Bagder>        since it isn't graphical, a pixel width makes no sense
+<dwihno>        What is the counter which is counting slowly while saving the file?
+<Bagder>        dwihno: the track number I guess
+<dwihno>        erhm
+<dwihno>        Slow :(
+<Bagder>        yeah
+<dwihno>        2 songs per sec approx
+<adi|home>      what font does lcd_puts write with?
+<adi|home>      size wise?
+<Bagder>        it uses the font you pick
+<Bagder>        with lcd_setfont
+<adi|home>      where is that value set?
+<adi|home>      how often does it need to be set?
+<adi|home>      or is global until it gets changed?
+<Bagder>        it defaults to 0
+<adi|home>      hmmm k...
+<Bagder>        currently I don't think any code ever sets it ;-)
+<Bagder>        btw, Zagor was wrong about the global variables ;-)
+<adi|home>      hehehe k.
+<Bagder>        unsigned char display[LCD_WIDTH][LCD_HEIGHT/8];
+<Bagder>        the recorder's display buffer
+<adi|home>      heheh
+<dwihno>        Phew!
+<dwihno>        I almost fainted for a second
+<dwihno>        what is a piece of software without a set of global vars? :)
+<Bagder>        haha
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<Bagder>        Zagor: I decided to make the sim Makefile get built with tools/configure too
+<Zagor> ok, cool
+<adi|home>      ummm k :)
+<adi|home>      so now i need to run configure each time i want a sim makefile?
+<Bagder>        it'll make it easier to build both kinds of simulators
+<Bagder>        adi|home: yes
+<adi|home>      k 
+<Bagder>        at least once
+<adi|home>      heheh i have a small gift in about 5 mins :)
+<adi|home>      ACK... 
+<adi|home>      ummm okay... just segfaulted the sim :)
+<Zagor> ooo, gift! ;)
+<adi|home>      heheh did it in tree.c on the strcmp
+<adi|home>      hmm.. someone wanna check and tell me if it happens to them..
+<adi|home>      i can walk you thought what i did..
+<Zagor> just a minute
+<adi|home>      k
+<Zagor> ok, what do I do?
+<adi|home>      compile the sim for the recorder
+<adi|home>      leave dir browse and go to menu
+<adi|home>      go to any submenu...
+<adi|home>      then key back to the main menu (return back)
+<adi|home>      then return to the dir browse
+<adi|home>      its the return to the dir browse that cores on me now.
+<Zagor> ok
+<adi|home>      i didnt notice if it did before
+<Zagor> i get it too. checking...
+<adi|home>      actually.. you don't even have to go to a submenu.. just the main menu and return to dir browse...
+<adi|home>      okay.. so i didn't introduce it.. i can commit what i worked on
+<Zagor> yes
+<adi|home>      okay, submitted..
+<adi|home>      not a major thing.. but something Bagder asked for
+<Bagder>        suuuure blame me ;-)
+<Zagor> yeah, looks good
+<adi|home>      no.. bagder.. you play with the sim at all?
+<Bagder>        only slightly recently
+<Zagor> but you could use putsxy if you want pixel position, to avoid calculating char position
+<adi|home>      okay.. cause now the version info is displayed below the splash bitmap
+*       adi|home dohs
+<Bagder>        cool
+<adi|home>      ill fix it
+<adi|home>      oka... fixed .. again
+<adi|home>      do you think that maybe that new splash screen should be displayed before the credits? 
+<adi|home>      figure that removes one more item from the menu...
+<Zagor> yeah, combine the two and call it "Version"
+<adi|home>      k
+<Zagor> crash fixed
+<Bagder>        ok, 'configure' now supports simulator builds too
+<Bagder>        seems to work ;-)
+<Bagder>        makes it easier to builds both kinds of simulators
+<Zagor> nice
+<Bagder>        give it a go and see if it works for you guys
+<Zagor> diving in
+<Zagor> works grrrreat!
+<Bagder>        goodie
+<Bagder>        I'm gonna setup non-stop automated builds of all targets soonish
+<Bagder>        to bettee allow all developers to see if they break things
+<Bagder>        build-wise
+<Bagder>        if only the power would get back
+<Bagder>        it should get back no later than tonight they said on the news today
+<Zagor> really? nice
+<Bagder>        yeah, apparently the progress has been a bit faster than they first thought
+<Bagder>        I still find it amazingly slow...
+-->     Linus (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        morning Linus
+<Linus> morning
+<Zagor> yeah, i especially like how the subway fixed their own power in about three hours...
+<dwihno>        You work in Kista?
+<dwihno>        LIK-KISTA! :D
+<Bagder>        Zagor: yeah
+<dwihno>        *hoho*
+<Linus> Lot of barbeque parties in that neiighbourhood nowadays. :-)
+<Zagor> no but the office (and thus server) is there
+<Bagder>        dwihno: no, but our office is there
+<dwihno>        lik-kista! :) :) ):
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> hi adam
+<Zagor> Bagder: did you ever try to build a player simulator? it doesn't work
+<Bagder>        the build?
+<Zagor> yes
+<Bagder>        works for me! :-O
+<Zagor> 3S works but not 1S
+<Zagor> make[1]: Entering directory `/home/bjst/public_html/rockbox/uisimulator/x11'
+<Zagor> make[1]: *** No rule to make target `debug.c', needed by `/home/bjst/public_html/rockbox/psim/.deps/debug.d'.  Stop.
+<Bagder>        old gcc again?
+<Zagor> no
+<Zagor> this is just make
+<Bagder>        ah, right
+<Zagor> try in my dir and see
+<Bagder>        you have to allow me to cd there then ;-)
+<Zagor> now
+<Bagder>        oh, I can
+<Bagder>        the Makefile too
+<Zagor> now
+<Bagder>        weird
+<Bagder>        I removed .deps and tried again
+<Bagder>        then it worked
+<Zagor> strange
+<Zagor> oh well
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs03v-4-164.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        morning Alan
+<alkorr>        hi
+<Bagder>        Björn cut out newlib
+<Bagder>        no need for that anymore
+<Zagor> i'm not 100% done yet, though
+<alkorr>        good news because i'm very upset : after a lot of hours to compile all the stuff, newlib fails
+<Zagor> we still haven't replaced all the header files
+<Bagder>        uh
+<Bagder>        Zagor: ok
+<Zagor> i'm thinking if we should just copy stdlib.h etc or do it some other way
+<Bagder>        I'm fine with whatever
+<alkorr>        that *!#§ try to compile for several machines (m2,m3e,m4-single and m4, plus the ml counterparts) whereas i would linke only for sh
+<alkorr>        sh1
+<alkorr>        any idea to switch off compilation with m2, m3e, etc. ?
+<Linus> but where dios it fail?
+<Linus> does
+<alkorr>        it try to link a lib.a or something like
+<alkorr>        it is when it compiles newlib (configure gcc with --with-newlib)
+<alkorr>        i have no longer the message (i compiled yesterday)
+<alkorr>        or to make a lib.a archive
+<Linus> what version of gcc/binutils/newlib?
+<alkorr>        the same as yours
+<Linus> strange
+<alkorr>        1.10.0
+<Linus> linux or cygwin?
+<adi|home>      okay... Zagor.. credits and splash/version merged
+<adi|home>      wanna take a look?
+<alkorr>        cygwin
+<alkorr>        just a precision
+<Bagder>        wavey managed to get it all working on cygwin
+<Zagor> nah, just check it in
+<Linus> ok. i have never tried it myself
+<adi|home>      it already is :)
+<Zagor> ah, you already did :)
+<adi|home>      i ment for style ;)
+<Zagor> checking
+<Bagder>        we should do some smooth scrolling on that screen
+<Bagder>        would be fun ;-)
+<adi|home>      heheh 
+<adi|home>      im working on it :)
+<adi|home>      that stuff is sorta my 'i feel like playing' test bed
+<adi|home>      im here to contribute completely useless things
+<adi|home>      :)
+<Bagder>        we like that!
+<alkorr>        JUST A PRECISION : BECAUSE COMPILATION FOR SH TARGET (m2,m3e,etc...) WAS VERY LONG, CYGWIN WAS LACKING OF RESSOURCE SO I WAS FORCED TO RUN AGAIN "make"
+*       adi|home coughs *screensaver*
+<alkorr>        TO CONTINUE THE PROCESS
+<Linus> alkorr: that sucks
+<Linus> alkorr: your capslock must be stuck :-)
+<Zagor> adi|home: looking good
+<adi|home>      Bagder... wanna do me a favor?
+<adi|home>      on the configure
+<Bagder>        yeah?
+<adi|home>      let it catch the --help and -? options
+<adi|home>      even if it don't do nothing.
+<adi|home>      so that we can set it later
+<dwihno>        What do you guys think about the upcoming game between Sweden and England on sunday?
+<Bagder>        right
+<Bagder>        dwihno: *booooooring*
+<Linus> dwihno: bloodbath!
+*       adi|home is just rocking for a game
+<dwihno>        Linus: Do you think we stand a chance?
+<Linus> I guess Bagder and I don't share an interest of football :-)
+<alkorr>        when it tries to 'configure' newlib, it was so endless and seems for a moment locked so I ctl-ed break
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Linus> dwihno: oh yes
+<Linus> alkorr: that takes forever!
+<dwihno>        :D
+<dwihno>        WE SHALL STAND VICTORIOUS!
+<dwihno>        WE WILL SHOW POWER SUPREMACY! :)
+<Linus> or maybe we'll just win the game.
+<adi|home>      umm.. using the makefile created by the configure
+<adi|home>      when you run make.. should we consider relocating the binaries?
+<alkorr>        so when I retry a 'make' it doesn't turn in 'configure' back, but go ahead to compile 'newlib'  
+<adi|home>      or should we assume the user will know where to look?
+<Linus> Bagder: does the recorder build still name the target "archos.mod"?
+<Bagder>        adi|home: it should put them all in the directory you're in
+<Bagder>        Linus: yes
+<alkorr>        and i could be surprised that it tries to link lib.a (i mean it should be libXXX.a)
+<Linus> It should call it ajbrec.ajz, afaik
+<alkorr>        so my question : it is normal it creates a lib.a ????
+<Linus> alkorr: you must run the configure again
+<Bagder>        Linus: yes, but it's the same makefile so that's why it has the same target name
+<Linus> ah maybe an ifdef?
+<Bagder>        yeah
+<alkorr>        geeeee !!!! it is not me who runs the 'configure' but 'make' the first time :(((((
+<Linus> alkorr: no, it hasn't built a lib.a in my build
+<Linus> ./configure
+<alkorr>        all this time lost :(((((
+<Bagder>        adi|home: done!
+<adi|home>      thanks :)
+<Linus> alkorr: in a hurry? :-)
+<adi|home>      oh.. and the binary is not moved to the file your in.
+<adi|home>      and the configure file is growing on me :)
+<alkorr>        i cannot trust that 'make' :((((( 
+<Linus> blah
+<Bagder>        adi|home: it isn't moved, it's built right there
+<Linus> alkorr: I did exactly that mistake the first time I built a cross gcc compiler (for powerpc)
+<Linus> I had to start all over again...
+<alkorr>        Linus : i respect all the procedures you're describing in sourceforge for creating cross-compilers, where is the error ?
+<alkorr>        respected
+<adi|home>      not its not Bagder.. the Makefile is built and in the correct location..
+<adi|home>      but when you do a make... the binary is not in the pwd
+<Bagder>        did you really update the uisimulator/x11/Makefile ?
+<Linus> I guess that the gcc makefile runs configure in the newlib directory if it sees that it isn't configured
+<Linus> Bagder: how do I undo a ./configure?
+<Linus> not in rockbox, i mean autoconf/automake stuff
+<Bagder>        Linus: you don't, you run it again and pick right ;-)
+<Linus> not in rockbox, i mean autoconf/automake stuff
+<alkorr>        it is not the first time i made a cross compiler, but for a reason i don't know, more recent version are more and more difficult to compile (i suppose gcc 3.x.x are quite recent so unstable for certain platforms)
+<Linus> remove config.cache?
+<Bagder>        Linus: yes, if such a one is made
+<Bagder>        it isn't usually these days
+<adi|home>      ahh.. okay.. fixed :)
+<adi|home>      hmmm... kinda nasty aint it..
+<Linus> alkorr: tru removing the config.cache file in the newlib dir
+<Linus> try
+<Bagder>        adi|home: nasty in what way?
+<adi|home>      1. be cleaner if all the obj files were located somewhere else.. but can't help that..
+<adi|home>      2. i run the rockboxui and it runs for a few ms and stops
+<adi|home>      no menu or anything
+<adi|home>      ideas?
+<Bagder>        why would the obj files be stored somewhere else?
+<alkorr>        but i don't see a config.cache
+<adi|home>      cause it just looks nasty :)
+*       adi|home is being picky... so deal :)
+<Bagder>        adi|home: the obj files were always stored this way, this is not a new way
+<adi|home>      i know.. 
+<adi|home>      don't mean i havta like it 
+<Bagder>        right
+<adi|home>      but whats the story with the rockboxui?
+<Linus> adi|home: try creating a directory called archos in the simulator dir
+<Zagor> Bagder: the makefile created by configure should have a dependency on firmware for the target builds
+<adi|home>      ahh.. thats it.. i have one in the sim dir.. but not one in tools
+<Bagder>        Zagor: yes, it needs to run make in both firmware and apps
+<Bagder>        I realized that too
+<Bagder>        adi|home: you should not actually run the configure script in the tools dir
+<Bagder>        its not very nice
+<Zagor> yeah, this 'archos' dir thing should be handled more gracefully
+<adi|home>      here should it be run from?
+<Zagor> a new dir
+<adi|home>      l
+<adi|home>      k
+<Bagder>        yes, we need to treat a missing 'archos' dir just as an empty dir or something
+<Zagor> or at least print a message
+<Bagder>        yes
+<adi|home>      well, why don't we just have the config create one if it don't exist?
+<adi|home>      i mean.. no archos dir, then they obv. don't have the .bmp
+<Bagder>        adi|home: hehe, good question ;-)
+<Bagder>        I'll make it
+*       adi|home has served his purpose 
+<adi|home>      you may also want to check for the existance of the .bmp file i they choose the recorder... and report about it if it is not found.
+<adi|home>      s/i they/if they/
+<Zagor> i think we should compile-in the rockbox logo, actually. it's very small and I expect many people will forget downloading the bmp
+<adi|home>      nods
+<adi|home>      how do you compile it in?
+<Bagder>        yeah
+<Bagder>        the file could be for replacement only
+<Zagor> we should still look for a logo file, but have the official logo as default
+<Bagder>        I mean the logo on disk
+<Zagor> exactly
+<dwihno>        How about application skinning? :)
+<Bagder>        we can use the bmp file reader as a converter
+<adi|home>      i agree.. i like that...
+<adi|home>      so we need current logo converted to binary yes?
+<Bagder>        converted to a C array
+<adi|home>      yeah..
+<Bagder>        just make the simulator write it to stdout
+<Zagor> code size is now up to 0x658e
+<Zagor> debug code, that is
+<Bagder>        Zagor: if you do 'configure update' now, the makefile will  be corrected
+<Zagor> good
+<adi|home>      the lcd_bitmap function.. how exactly does that write to the display?
+<Bagder>        it fills in the display buffer correctly
+<Bagder>        then lcd_update() copy the buffer to the LCD 
+<adi|home>      so the buffer passed in, when returned, should be all 1's and 0's yes?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<dwihno>        Btw, is a price of SEK 1500 good for a old PII 266, 256mb RAM, 3GB disk, EEPRO100 NIC, ATI rage 128 card?
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<Bagder>        I dunno
+<Zagor> sounds good to me, if you have use for it
+<dwihno>        I'm considering to sell my last computer ;)
+<dwihno>        Then I'm all computer-less.
+<dwihno>        Until my laptop arrives.
+<Zagor> who's got a studio?
+<Bagder>        I think Lion and PsycoXul do
+<Zagor> http://storebror.haxx.se/~bjst/rockbox/player/archos.mod  <-- player mod with new cursor chars. i want it tested to verify i've picked the right char
+<Zagor> a new player is good too, of course
+<Zagor> linus left mine at home *growl*
+<Linus> sorry...
+<Zagor> it isn't that pretty in the simulator :)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        then we need some sim work-around
+<Bagder>        the recorder now gets an archos.ajz output file
+<Zagor> nice
+<PsycoXul>      Zagor: it looks nice but still takes up 1 too many chars :p
+<Zagor> yeah, we must fix something with the hardware cursor
+<Zagor> next version
+<PsycoXul>      well i played with it
+<PsycoXul>      i just cant get the damn thing to show up without blinking
+<Zagor> but you get the arrow?
+<Bagder>        Zagor: you should put sentences like that in a little document before we release, or people will jam us with questions like that
+<Zagor> yes i will
+<PsycoXul>      yeah i get the arrow
+<Zagor> good
+<PsycoXul>      the cursor's default state seems to be invisible
+<PsycoXul>      and when it blinks it gets reversed
+<PsycoXul>      but it starts out invisible and the blink period's too long
+<PsycoXul>      so you can scroll past several names before it blinks into visibility
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: can you download and try again? this is a test with double-height logo
+<Zagor> uhh, this will probably look strange
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      it hasn't shown up on either of these
+<Zagor> i'm turning it off too quickly
+<PsycoXul>      it just says the rom version untill the dir list comes up
+<PsycoXul>      and it still looks normal from the version menu
+<Zagor> ok, hang on...
+<PsycoXul>      btw, it'd be nice if the sound options would go back to the sound menu when you press the menu button, like the rest of the menu does heh
+<Zagor> right, fixing
+<Zagor> ok, try again
+<PsycoXul>      btw i have to say 
+<PsycoXul>      the process of copying one single little file is much faster in windows than linux
+<Zagor> yes, that's because the linux FAT driver reads 512 bytes per request. it really slows everything down. :(
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<Zagor> i've been looking into it, but it's not exactly straight-forward
+<PsycoXul>      the logo still doesn't show up on startup, but it is double-height in the version menu
+<PsycoXul>      ...and then so is everything else afterwards
+<PsycoXul>      oh
+<Bagder>        hahaha
+<PsycoXul>      untill you leave the menu
+<Zagor> yeah, i forgot to clear it :)
+<Zagor> but why doesn't it show up at boot? hmm...
+<PsycoXul>      i dunno
+<PsycoXul>      just keeps showing the rom's screen
+<Zagor> ok, once more
+<Zagor> gaah, stop!
+<Zagor> found the reason
+<Zagor> download again
+<Zagor> you don't have a webcam, do you? ;)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<PsycoXul>      heh why
+<Zagor> would be cool to see, now that I can't test myself
+<PsycoXul>      it works 
+<Zagor> it does? cool!
+<PsycoXul>      yep
+<PsycoXul>      its all cool
+<alkorr>        btw, ata still not working on recorder ?
+<Zagor> only now you don't actually get to see the version number :)
+<Zagor> alkorr: no
+<Bagder>        now darnit, does this mean you guys won't bring a player tonight to show me?
+<Zagor> Bagder: only an old version
+<Bagder>        ah, ok, without double height?
+<Zagor> unless we pop by linus on the way :)
+<Bagder>        uh
+<Zagor> exactly
+<PsycoXul>      these ones haven't been showing a version number anyways
+<Bagder>        he's living way too far out ;-)
+<alkorr>        maybe another bit of port A or B to set/clear :/
+<Zagor> yeah, he's out in the sticks
+<Zagor> alkorr: yeah, probably something like that. we haven't looked much at it yet. it's very painful without gdb.
+<PsycoXul>      now just add a line-in on/off toggle, and auto-continue-to-next-track and i'll start using :p
+<PsycoXul>      using it
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Zagor> patience, my friend :)
+<Linus> the lazy playlist coders aren't ready. the mpeg thread is
+<PsycoXul>      honestly just playing a whole dir instead of a single file is all i miss in it and imo a road-block to realistic usability
+<Zagor> i agree
+<PsycoXul>      even if it can't load or save playlists, just to keep going :p
+<Zagor> i'll see if I can hack up a quick-fix for it
+<PsycoXul>      any idea on battery usage of this vs archos' at this point?
+<Linus> probably worse that archos
+<Zagor> probably. we aren't doing anything to conserve battery
+<Zagor> except shutting off the disk
+<PsycoXul>      well thats the biggest battery sucker isn't it?
+<Linus> yup
+<Zagor> during activity, yes. when idle, it only draws like 40mA
+<PsycoXul>      i mean i can see it'll use more just cause you have to select each track
+<PsycoXul>      but besides that...
+<Zagor> i'll be experimenting with shutting down the LCD and stuff soon. also there's a deeper sleep mode you can put the disk in.
+<dwihno>        Cool
+<PsycoXul>      i'm leaving for a week long trip on saturday
+<Zagor> could you test again PsycoXul? this version shows double-height on boot but single-height on Version menu, I hope
+<dwihno>        Does the LCD consume lots of power?
+<Zagor> dwihno: I don't know, that's what I intend to find out
+<Linus> and the mpeg thread can be restructured to minimize the disk up-time
+<dwihno>        Coolness
+<PsycoXul>      it'd be great if its reasonably usable vs archos' before i left, cause i can hack in some text-file support and have books to read while i'm gone :p
+<dwihno>        Would be really neato to gain an hour or so :)
+<Zagor> i wouldn't count on it
+<dwihno>        nah
+<dwihno>        but in our dreams, everything is possible! :)
+<dwihno>        The playlist loader could be smarter btw.
+<Bagder>        smarter than what?
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Bagder>        ah right, you've missed the playlist talk on the list
+<PsycoXul>      Zagor: yep works 
+<Zagor> cool
+<PsycoXul>      and shows version as CVS this time
+<Zagor> i'll check it in like this, then
+<dwihno>        Bagder: I've been on the list for just a short while
+<Bagder>        dwihno: we plan a system where we can keep a large playlist by using little memory
+<Bagder>        and we can do full forward/backward even when doing random
+<dwihno>        :)~
+<dwihno>        but how?
+<PsycoXul>      the best way!
+<PsycoXul>      :p
+<dwihno>        gheh
+<dwihno>        I just wonder how to keep all data in memory
+<Bagder>        dwino: we store only file name byte-index in memory
+<Bagder>        byte-index into the file to fine the actual file namae
+<Bagder>        (and a few cached ones too)
+<dwihno>        mkay
+<dwihno>        The font should be tighter horizontally
+<Bagder>        feel free to make such a font
+<dwihno>        The browser should have some sort of quick navigation in a tree
+<Zagor> we are accepting new font submissions :)
+<Bagder>        it could be made to work proportional too
+<Zagor> that's a cool idea, actually
+<alkorr>        even ET font :)
+<dwihno>        The scroll should be horizontally too
+<dwihno>        scroll faster
+<dwihno>        <-- is mongo today
+*       Bagder has considered a system with a wider display buffer and allow the display to scroll horizontally
+<Zagor> ahh, that's an idea
+<dwihno>        I want a jpeg-viewer too! :)
+<Zagor> 1-bit jpegs are rare :)
+<dwihno>        heh
+<dwihno>        all you need is some cool algorithm to transform the image :)
+<Bagder>        true
+<Bagder>        that's what the bmp reader does
+<Bagder>        not cool though, rather uncool ;-)
+<Zagor> time for Greasy Friday
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|lunch
+---     Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
+<dwihno>        greasy?
+<dwihno>        You mean JUNKFOOD! :D
+<dwihno>        Oh, the envy!
+<PsycoXul>      i thought you were commiting this? :p
+<alkorr>        Just a suggestion, why not use long long instead of char for internal bitmap ?
+<Bagder>        why?
+<alkorr>        if you need to draw a rectangle you can draw vertical line easily
+<alkorr>        just creating a mask to OR for start and end vertical lines
+<alkorr>        another mask for upper and lower horizonta lines 
+<Bagder>        I don't see the point in optimizing for rectangles anyway
+<alkorr>        it is an example, Bagder
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        but we do char output mostly
+<Bagder>        we should optimize for that
+---     Bagder is now known as Bagder|lunch
+<alkorr>        i mean that access should not be always char but also short or int or long long according what you want
+<alkorr>        if you want to use double heigth font, use short instead of char
+<alkorr>        ah he's left
+<--     alkorr has quit ()
+<Lion>  Hey, who works on the MPEG thread?
+<Lion>  Anyone alive?
+<PsycoXul>      not really
+<Lion>  Oh hey, hows it goin'.
+<PsycoXul>      pretty good
+<Lion>  I heard the test did not go as well as we could have hoped.
+<PsycoXul>      heh yeah
+<PsycoXul>      every time i loaded the new chars, they showed up on the screen in place of the old ones :/
+<Lion>  Damn.
+<PsycoXul>      i'm still not using rockbox's code to do it, but i don't think that matters
+<Lion>  Yeah, if you're talking directly to the controller, then all is losty.
+<Lion>  So, my plan is to write an interface layer to manage custom chars.
+<PsycoXul>      manage them in what way?
+<Lion>  And allow other threads to request and store custom chars, then a layer over the lcd_prints to call the custom chars.  It'll check for the number of customs in use and swap 'em in and out as necessary
+<Lion>  stupid java
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Lion>  lcd_puts
+---     Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor
+<Lion>  Then no one has to worry about what custom clot is in use, or if/how many are on screen.
+<Lion>  s/clot/slot
+<PsycoXul>      sounds like fun
+---     Linus|lunch is now known as Linus
+<Lion>  It's pretty easy, really.
+<Linus> Lion: I work on the mpeg thread
+<Lion>  Cool, I have a global struct API interface for the thread.
+<Lion>  No locks needed either, vars are either external write only or internal write only.
+<Linus> you mean the info about what songs to play and when they actually play?
+<Lion>  Well, that and a LOT more.
+<Lion>  Lemme quick crank it out so you can see.
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<Lion>  It's on paper right now.
+<PsycoXul>      what happens if you lcd_puts 22 chars on the player?
+<Linus> ok. mail it to the list
+<PsycoXul>      will it wrap or truncate?
+<Linus> wrap
+<Zagor> truncate
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Linus> :-)
+<Zagor> truncate
+<Linus> sorry, zagor fixed that.
+<Zagor> truncate
+<Zagor> truncate
+<Zagor>  :)
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<Linus> it truncates each row, right? after 11 chars.
+<Zagor> yup
+<Zagor> after pos 11
+<Linus> I think I have found the LCD display controller that Archos uses
+<Zagor> really?
+<Zagor> so it's not the salomon we thought?
+<Linus> the charset matches pretty well
+<Linus> nope, but we knew that, didn't we?
+<Zagor> yeah well i was kind of confused...
+<Zagor> it matches so well, but still doesn't :)
+<Zagor> so what have you found?
+<Linus> samsung
+<Linus> S6A0093 has a charset that matches
+<Linus> still, it doesn't quite add up...
+<Linus> the commands sent to it are not specified in the data sheet
+<Linus> Ah
+<Linus> that's because the charset matches that of the new player
+<Linus> and i haven't analyzed the commands to the new LCD
+<Linus> got it
+<Zagor> where's the pdf?
+<Linus> S6A0090
+<Linus> that's the "old" LCD
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+<Linus> at least when it comes to the commands
+<Linus> but the charset is the same as S6A0093...
+<Linus> strange
+<Zagor> i never understood why they have different charsets for differnt versions
+<Zagor> the old charset is a lot better than the new one
+<Linus> http://samsungelectronics.com/semiconductors/search/datasheet.jsp?family=312
+<Linus> and why change LCD at all?
+<PsycoXul>      cause they got a bargain on the earlier ones and then ran out?
+<Zagor> yeah maybe
+<Linus> hehe no wonder the double height mode doesn't work on the Old(tm) players
+<Linus> its a Test command
+<Zagor> people were unexpectedly actually buying the jukebox :)
+<PsycoXul>      hehe
+<Zagor> Linus: ooh, nice :)
+<Linus> "Don't use this instruction", sayeth the Data Sheet :-)
+<PsycoXul>      so how about the new lcd... is there maybe actualy a command to turn the hw cursor on and visible without blink? heh
+<Zagor> Display Control:
+<Zagor> C = Cursor on/off
+<PsycoXul>      or either one for that matter... heh
+<Zagor> B = Blink on/off
+<Zagor> D = Display on/off
+<Zagor> neato
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<PsycoXul>      thats what it says in the sheet for it on your website too
+<Linus> Samsung's web server log experiences a strange interest in LCD data sheets...
+<Zagor> ah, right. same command...
+<Linus> there seems to be a "standard" for LCD commands
+<Linus> almost all LCD controllers have the same commands
+<Zagor> oh well maybe there's some text explaining it, or whatever
+<Linus> except for that &/#% old Player
+<Zagor> so how do we know this is not just another almost-it?
+<Linus> i think the only question mark is the charset on the Old Player
+---     Bagder|lunch is now known as Bagder
+<Zagor> can these be mask-programmed in some way, like the sh1 is?
+<Linus> maybe
+<Linus> you mean they have a custom charset on the old one?
+<Bagder>        I'll take off home, I'll pop in when I get there
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<Zagor> Linus: yeah, maybe. just a guess.
+<Zagor> it seems natural Samsung would produce an asian display like the new one
+<Linus> that makes it even more stupid to change LCD...
+<Zagor> indeed... are both still in production?
+<Linus> they say "mass production" on the site
+<Zagor> ok. the mystery thickens... :)
+<Linus> whatever. these ones seem more likely than the solomon ones anyway
+<Zagor> yeah, at least there's *more* matches in these :)
+<Linus> apropos standard,
+<Linus> (from the web site)
+<Linus> "The double height character mode and line
+<Linus> vertical scroll functions are supported"
+<Zagor> vertical scroll?
+<Linus> That sort of implies a standard, otherwise they wouldn't have said "THE ... modes"
+<Zagor> hmm, maybe. or it's just a case of asian english :)
+<Linus> Line Shift Mode
+<Linus> you can tell which part of DDRAM begins on the first line
+<Linus> you can have 4 lines in memory and program an offset to tell which of the 4 is actually the first line on screen
+<Zagor> ah. real fancy "scroll" :-)
+<Linus> wow
+<Linus> it has a horizontal scroll too
+<Lion>  asian english == engrish (the 'technical' term)
+<Linus> or rather rotation
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<Linus> Lion: :-)
+<PsycoXul>      its horizontal scroll sucks cause its buffer is too short though
+<Linus> we need to perform some tests to see if the sheets are correct
+<PsycoXul>      its what archos' firmware uses 
+<Linus> is it?
+<Zagor> i don't think it is. it bugs too much :)
+<PsycoXul>      i'm pretty sure it dictates the scroll speed and is why even scrolling chars get cut off at a certain point
+<Zagor> but you get magically appearing/disappearing characters sometimes, which indicates it's not just a memory offset
+<PsycoXul>      but then you never know, those crazy archos people pulled that 999 limit out of their asses, they could've pulled a 22 char or such limit for sideways scrolling out of it too :p
+<Zagor> i think they did
+<PsycoXul>      Zagor: hmm i've never seen that
+<Zagor> play a file with long strings, then play a file with shorter. when the scroll goes past the \0 in the string, the rest of the previous string appears on-screen
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<PsycoXul>      never had that happen
+<Zagor> uh, sorry. i'm talking about the recorder. doh!
+<PsycoXul>      ah well see
+<PsycoXul>      thats a different story altogether
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Zagor> yeah
+*       Zagor smacks forehead
+<PsycoXul>      btw
+<PsycoXul>      did you commit those changes you said you were?
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Zagor> yes
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<PsycoXul>      just not getting the mails cause of the blackout?
+<Zagor> exactly
+<Zagor> they say the power could come back tonight. let's hope so.
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<Zagor> feels like some 3rd world country...
+<PsycoXul>      ok i just compiled it and got into the browser still in double-height
+<Zagor> ouch. let me check
+<Zagor> well darn, that's the code I used. you sure you got the latest?
+<Linus> large filea are displayed with large characters. :-)
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Zagor> haha
+<PsycoXul>      yep got latest
+<Zagor> ah, forgot one thing. hang on.
+<Zagor> update tree.c
+<Lion>  Almost done with this thing.
+<PsycoXul>      if all else fails with making the hw cursor not blink
+<PsycoXul>      we could always just use a custom char thats the reverse of the first letter of what we're selecting
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      Zagor: ok works
+<Zagor> good
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+<Linus> baggy! hi!
+<Bagder>        rehi
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+<Linus> suicidal proxy...
+<Bagder>        joinin leaving joining leaving... :-)
+<Lion>  http://www.leonine.com/~lion/temp/mpeg_api.h
+<Linus> Lion: good start
+<Linus> A few comments...
+<Linus> the mpeg thread may need to tell where in the stream it is playing right now
+<Lion>  Oops, stupid = in #defines
+<Lion>  right, I was using filepos to do that.
+<Linus> we may also have at least two streams in memory
+<Bagder>        at least
+<Linus> it reads more that 1 meg ahead
+<Linus> and the thread is never killed
+<Lion>  MPEG_CMD_KILL is not designed to actually kill the thread
+<Linus> ok
+<Lion>  just stop what it's doing, and unload it's data
+<Bagder>        I think we should use functions to instruct the thread
+<Linus> ok, we might find a better name for it then
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Bagder>        and keep this struct for mpeg reporting
+<PsycoXul>      ok that last text reading function i wrote is really broke
+<PsycoXul>      IO9:CPUAdrE
+<PsycoXul>      at 000A11E3
+<PsycoXul>      :p
+<Bagder>        uu
+<Linus> hehe
+<Linus> i know exactly what it is.
+<PsycoXul>      what is it? heh
+<Bagder>        PsycoXul: unaligned memory address
+<Linus> Zagor forgot to mention a sligt detail in his file API
+<Linus> it can't always write into buffers at odd addresses
+<Lion>  Badger: You can use a func, but in the end it's still going to behave as this struct does.  The MPEG thread will need ot lopp and check a var to look for it's commands.
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Bagder>        Lion: perhaps, but the API wouldn't have to care
+<Linus> we have a message queue for that
+<PsycoXul>      oh well i think its broken in a lot of ways so i'll forget about that and use the newer one though its not quite as functional :/
+<Linus> but it is about the same
+<Lion>  Bad: My point is, write a func, but that doesn't remove the need for the cmd var
+<Bagder>        Lion: sure it does
+<Bagder>        because it moves that responsibily to the thread
+<Linus> i think the funcs could do what the mpeg_xxx() functions do today
+<Linus> they send a message
+<Lion>  Yeah, and how does that message get to the thread?
+<Linus> via the queue primitives
+<Linus> and yes, it is still a loop
+<Linus> that checks the queue
+<Lion>  OH, so there IS more than simple threading.
+<Linus> we have queues and mutexes
+<Lion>  I was under the assumption that there wasn't any IPC semantics.
+<Bagder>        they're not documented anywhere though ;-)
+<Linus> and sleep() and yield() of course
+<Lion>  Ahhh ....
+<Linus> look at the mpeg.c
+<Linus> and ata.c
+<Lion>  I was hoping there was sleep() for when I rewrite apps/play.c to use the struct
+<Bagder>        sleep() is documented
+<Lion>  cool
+<Lion>  Well, anyway, then someone write the mpeg_cmd() func .. :)
+<Bagder>        mpeg_play() is there ;-)
+<Lion>  I know.
+<Lion>  You'll notice the struct has no method for loading and starting a file
+<Lion>  it assumes mpeg_play()
+<Bagder>        goodie
+<Bagder>        mpeg_stop() stops
+<Lion>  woot
+<Bagder>        afaik, those are the only play-related functions we have right now
+<Linus> pause and resume also
+<Bagder>        ah, cool
+<Linus> but not seek
+<Bagder>        Linus: can you add them to the API file please?
+<Linus> that one is a monster to implement in a good way...
+<Linus> Bagder: ok
+<Zagor> seek is for v3.0 ;)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Zagor> Linus: add a comment about read() while you're at it
+<Linus> BTW is the API file meant to document the present status, or the intended goal?
+<Lion>  present status
+<Zagor> present status IMHO
+<Bagder>        Linus: I've tried to add a note when things don't work even if documented
+<Bagder>        like write()
+<PsycoXul>      ok wtf
+<PsycoXul>      this text function works fine for a small file
+<PsycoXul>      but large files it just displays the same odd pattern of y's and o's and blankness
+<Linus> looks like a buffer overwrite to me.
+<Lion>  You're not loading the entire file into mem, are you?
+<PsycoXul>      Lion: of course i am
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Bagder>        haha
+<Lion>  Well, don't.
+<Linus> and how big is your buffer?
+<PsycoXul>      the file's length
+<Linus> malloc()
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<PsycoXul>      none of these files are over 1mb
+<Lion>  You shouldn't be loading all of it into mem anyway.
+<PsycoXul>      why not?
+<PsycoXul>      if it'll fit, it makes it a lot easier and saves hd spinning
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+<--     Zagor has quit (tenn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<Lion>  Bad policy.  Load and display chuncks only.
+-->     Linus (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<PsycoXul>      chunks are bad when we want to spin the hd as little as possible
+<Lion>  You shouldn't assume you have free reign over all the memory.  Place nice itth other threads
+<Lion>  s/itth/with
+<Lion>  s/Place/Play
+<PsycoXul>      yeah well i'm not submitting my code, its just for my own benifit
+<PsycoXul>      i'm not that good a coder :p
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Lion>  Anyway, however you want to implement the cmd fucntions, if you do the DOMESTIC parts of the struct, then I'll rewrite apps/play.c to use them
+<PsycoXul>      ugh i guess i'm just using archos' firmware on vacation :/
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: i may have something for you, if this works...
+<PsycoXul>      and i should've went to bed 2 hours ago
+<PsycoXul>      Zagor: whats this
+<Zagor> testing whole-dir play right now
+<PsycoXul>      cool
+<Zagor> bugs :)
+<Zagor> testing again
+<PsycoXul>      oh well, unless somebody else can do a text viewer right and have it done today [i'm not holding my breath] i'm just gonna have to use archos' firmware on my vacation :/
+<Zagor> does it have a text viewer?
+<PsycoXul>      no
+<PsycoXul>      but its got nifty things like battery indicator :p
+<Zagor> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
+<Zagor> whole-dir playback works
+<Linus> bango!
+<Bagder>        rocking box
+<PsycoXul>      cool
+<Zagor> i'm filtering a bit, so only files ending with a '3' are played :)
+<Linus> i had that working a long time ago...
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Linus> in my test code.
+<Linus> but Zagor removed it
+<Zagor> Linus: yeah, but you cheated by reading the dir again
+<Zagor> i don't
+<Linus> memory hog :-)
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Zagor> you, yes
+<Zagor> i don't use any more memory than before
+<Linus> because you already loaded the dir
+<Zagor> yup
+<PsycoXul>      i guess if somebody wanted to hack in a battery indicator i'd be satisfied to use rockbox this week
+<Linus> the dir browser didn't exist when I wrote the mpeg thread
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: heh, that's a whole science!
+<PsycoXul>      being out and about for a week in the middle of nowhere it just seems necessary to see when my battery is dead :p
+<Linus> you will know, trust me. :-)
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Zagor> I promise to not be offended if you don't use the Rockbox firmware :)
+<PsycoXul>      :p
+<PsycoXul>      damn my ploy backfired :p
+<Zagor> now we are REALLY ready for 1.0 release
+<PsycoXul>      if there was a rolo already i wouldn't care what was in what, i'd just have it all on there and choose what i felt like :p
+<Zagor> yeah, rolo would be really nice
+<Bagder>        I'd prefer a recorder version first
+<PsycoXul>      nahhh
+<PsycoXul>      :p
+*       Bagder smiles
+<Linus> Bagder: buy a Player
+<Bagder>        well, you guys don't listen to yours, right? :-)
+<PsycoXul>      well...
+<PsycoXul>      i'm off to bed
+<dwihno>        Night
+<dwihno>        Sleep well
+<Bagder>        night PsycoXul
+<PsycoXul>      see ya either tomorrow or the week after next heh
+<Zagor> yeah, bye
+<Linus> night
+---     Zagor is now known as Zagor|cake
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|cake
+<dwihno>        CAKE?!
+<dwihno>        BEEFCAKE!
+<Bagder>        ok, I added an internal rockbox logo now
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<dwihno>        yay!
+<Bagder>        yeah, takes away the need for a rockbox112.bmp
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<dwihno>        yeah
+<dwihno>        there should still be a loader to load alternative logotypes :)
+<Bagder>        yes, it'll remain
+<Bagder>        "bunkerromantik mix"
+<Bagder>        sounds fine ;-)
+<dwihno>        I'm the commander!
+-->     KGY16 (OKE60@pD9EAB9A3.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        welcome
+<KGY16> hi
+---     KGY16 is now known as edx
+<edx>   lol
+<Bagder>        under cover edx!
+<edx>   heh that was some script i wrote once...
+<edx>   it was for some other irc server... it connected to a proxy with different IP every time and changed my ident and nickname so noone could ever find out im the smae person
+<Bagder>        hax0r-edx ;-)
+<Bagder>        edx: built that cross compiler yet? ;-)
+<edx>   haha.. no
+<edx>   i keep working with sh-elf work windows :P
+<edx>   nothing to build - just doubleclick setup.exe and a few times next and there you go
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<edx>   for the mp3 download stuff i was working on i found a neat solution (without linux thoguh...)
+<edx>   i wrote a program i can pass a list to and it controls WinMX for me (searches for the song, chooses the best version and downloads it)
+<edx>   i get like constantly 90kb/sec like this (just pass it the current chart list!)
+<dwihno>        cool
+---     Zagor|cake is now known as Zagor
+<dwihno>        Zagor: Good cake?
+<Zagor> very nice
+---     Linus|cake is now known as Linus
+<Linus> burp!
+<dwihno>        Beefcake? :)
+<Linus> Zagor: fix that mpeg thread bug!
+<Zagor> it was already fixed
+<Linus> oh?
+---     edx is now known as edx|no_cake
+<dwihno>        :)
+<Zagor> uh, it wasn't...
+---     edx|no_cake is now known as edx
+<Bagder>        14397 lines of code
+<Bagder>        wc -l ` find firmware apps -name "*.[ch]" -maxdepth 2`
+<Bagder>        everything included: 35163 lines
+<Linus> c00l!
+<Linus> Bagder: yuu have 8 minutes now...
+<Bagder>        oh
+<Bagder>        you too ;-)
+<Linus> yup.
+<Bagder>        I'm off!
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<Linus> bye
+<Linus> gotta go now. Bye!
+<--     Linus (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<Zagor> i can report Rockbox plays 320kbit mp3s just *fine*
+<dwihno>        Yay
+<dwihno>        I can report my ear cartilage is hurting
+<Zagor> 11, 22, 44 and 48 kHz sample rate works too. we rock! :)
+<edx>   hehe
+<dwihno>        How is seeking?
+<edx>   sweet :)
+<Zagor> seeking is in the future
+<Zagor> gotta go now, bye!
+<--     Zagor (~bjst@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<dwihno>        Hey, 1.0 seems pretty close. Kewl.
+---     edx is now known as edx|away
+<edx|away>      lol.. we should contact archos to replace their crap - maybe they pay us :P
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+---     dwihno is now known as dw|weekender
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     chaumai54 (~chau@64.118.137.3) has joined #rockbox
+<chaumai54>     hello
+<chaumai54>     so, I want to look at the source and compile it and mess with it to see if I have the skills to be able to contribute anfthing
+<chaumai54>     using win2k pro, installed cygwin.
+<chaumai54>     tried to follow the steps to make the sh-elf-gcc
+<chaumai54>     when run binutils configure(or any of the configures for that matter) i get an error
+<chaumai54>     checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... eval: 1: Syntax error: Unterminated quoted
+<chaumai54>      string
+<chaumai54>     Configure in /home/linus/build/binutils/intl failed, exiting.
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<--     chaumai54 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     chaumai54 (~chau@64.118.137.3) has joined #rockbox
+<chaumai54>     helo?
+<chaumai54>                     person = (Person)PartyHomeFactory.getPartyHome().findByPartyID(recipient);
+<chaumai54>     oops
+<chaumai54>     checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... eval: 1: Syntax error: Unterminated quoted
+<chaumai54>      string
+<chaumai54>     Configure in /home/linus/build/binutils/intl failed, exiting.
+<chaumai54>     .
+<chaumai54>     ...
+<--     chaumai54 has quit ()
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+-->     nicknackpattywac (~first@nat-198-95-226-227.netapp.com) has joined #rockbox
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     chaumai54 (~chau@64.118.137.3) has joined #rockbox
+<--     chaumai54 has quit ()
+<--     nicknackpattywac has quit ()
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<edx|away>      adi.. you there?
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+---     edx|away is now known as edx
+<webmind>       anyone alive ?
+<webmind>       question: if i start using the current rockbox firmware, will i be able to switch back easily to the firware from archos and is there any chance on damaging the thing ?
+<edx>   there is a chance of damaging the thing - you will be able to switch back easily to the archos firmware
+<edx>   finally. tetris. in large.
+-->     motiv01 (~trillian@sdn-ar-001ncraleP247.dialsprint.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     motiv01 (~trillian@sdn-ar-001ncraleP247.dialsprint.net) has left #rockbox
+-->     motiv01 (~trillian@sdn-ar-001ncraleP247.dialsprint.net) has joined #rockbox
+<adi|work>      edx.. just saw your version of tetris.. it rocks :)(
+<adi|work>      gotta run ... be home in a bit...
+<edx>   thx adi.
+<edx>   i gotta go as well now. cya guys
+<--     edx has quit ("n8")
+<webmind>       hmm, what damage could i encounter
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri May 31 19:56:21 2002
+
diff --git a/www/irc/rockbox-20020604.log b/www/irc/rockbox-20020604.log
new file mode 100644
index 0000000000..c7b0341d5a
--- /dev/null
+++ b/www/irc/rockbox-20020604.log
@@ -0,0 +1,1858 @@
+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun  1 00:01:10 2002
+
+-->     adiamas (~adiamas@216.194.26.213) has joined #rockbox
+---     Topic for #rockbox is web site might remain dead until saturday! :-(
+---     Topic for #rockbox set by Bagder at Thu May 30 11:07:24
+---     You are now known as adi|home
+-->     edx (OKE60@pD9EABB84.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<edx>   morning.
+<Tumm>  morning
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     ChanServ gives channel operator status to Zagor
+---     Zagor has changed the topic to: Does your box rock? http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+<Zagor> hey all
+<--     Zagor has quit ("bye")
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+*       adam thought of something evil
+<adam>  a perl script to automatically renew my library books via telnet :p
+<webmind>       evil yes
+<adam>  Machinae Supremacy - The Great Gianna Sisters
+---     edx is now known as edx|away
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<Zagor> hey guys. time for 1.0 release.
+<webmind>       neat :)
+<webmind>       when ?
+---     dw|weekender is now known as dwihno
+<Zagor> soon. just fixing the web page
+<webmind>       ok.. btw.. what are the functions/features of v1.0 ?
+<Zagor> hang on..
+<dwihno>        Hej hej
+<Zagor> hi dwihno. 1.0 coming out in a few minutes.
+<Zagor> http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/rockbox-1.0-notes.txt
+<dwihno>        Cool!
+<dwihno>        :D
+<dwihno>        Beware of Rockbox - It will rock your box! :D
+<Zagor> http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/download.html
+<dwihno>        You are forgetting something - I have a recorder ;)
+<Zagor> ah, i'll add a comment about that
+<dwihno>        I want to be mentioned too! :)
+<Zagor> hehe
+<dwihno>        Please? :)
+<webmind>       it seems to be becomming something :)
+<dwihno>        I saw a 1.27D version of the archos firmware being released
+*       dwihno is off to check what's new/fixed
+<Zagor> dwihno: any info about what changes?
+<dwihno>        Added all Remote Functions via Remote Control Unit 
+<dwihno>        That's what's new in the D revision
+<Zagor> ok
+<dwihno>        I got some new Sennheiser headphones today
+<dwihno>        My old Philips died on me last night. May they rest in peace.
+<webmind>       btw.. any chance there will sometime be a txt file reader in rockbox ?
+<dwihno>        Sometime, probably
+<webmind>       ok
+<Zagor> yeah, that's a simple thing
+<Zagor> PsycoXul was working on it yesterday, but got snagged on some bug
+<dwihno>        Does the ID3 stuff parse ID3V2 tags?
+<Zagor> i think so
+<dwihno>        mkay
+<Zagor> that's bagder's code
+<dwihno>        bagder the badger :)
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+---     ChanServ gives channel operator status to Zagor
+---     Zagor has changed the topic to: Version 1.0 released!
+<edx|away>      hi!
+---     edx|away is now known as edx
+<edx>   release 1.0 - that is cool :)
+<edx>   for the recorder as well?
+<Zagor> no, just player
+<Zagor> we haven't got the recorder ata driver working yet
+<edx>   ah.. ok ;)
+<edx>   hmm
+<edx>   too sad i cant help there :(
+<edx>   lol... did you get that Search Engine mail...
+<Zagor> i get a looot of spam...
+<edx>   Hi
+<edx>   I visited http://bjorn.haxx.se, and noticed that you're not listed on some search engines! I think we can offer you a service which can help you increase traffic and the number of visitors to your website.
+<edx>    
+<edx>   bla.
+---     dwihno is now known as dw|gone
+<Zagor> you got that too?
+<edx>   yup.
+<Zagor> hah
+<edx>   what is wrong with the ata driver?
+<edx>   a protocol related thing.. ?
+<Zagor> no, more likely the hardware interface is a little different from the players
+<edx>   hmm
+<edx>   the webserver is down?
+<Zagor> no, it's up again
+<edx>   hmm i cant see it..
+<Zagor> odd
+<edx>   not even haxx.se
+<edx>   cant ping it either
+<edx>   i gotta go eating :)
+<edx>   later..
+<Zagor> bye
+---     edx is now known as edx|grilling
+<--     Zagor has quit ("bye")
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+---     edx|grilling is now known as edx
+<edx>   anyone here with an archos player?
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<Tumm>  yesbox
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<edx>   good night.
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<--     edx has quit ("ZZzz")
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<--     motiv01_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     motiv01_ (~trillian@sdn-ar-002ncraleP123.dialsprint.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+---     dw|gone is now known as dwihno
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+---     dwihno is now known as dw|gone
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     edx (OKE60@pD9EAACD1.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+---     edx is now known as edx|eating
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<webmind>       bit onstable?
+-->     edx|disconnected (OKE60@pD9EAB9DE.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+---     edx|disconnected is now known as edx
+<--     edx|eating has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<--     edx has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     edx (OKE60@pD9EAAEFD.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+-->     BRQ35 (OKE60@pD9EAA6B7.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<--     edx has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+---     BRQ35 is now known as edx
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<Zagor> hey guys
+-->     huz (~marco@AToulouse-103-1-2-61.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<huz>   hi all, glade to see the first release it there, i test it now ! 
+<huz>   congratulations
+<huz>   (where is my archos ? ;)
+<Zagor> thanks!
+---     huz is now known as huz|test
+<huz|test>      befor i copy your archos.mod, i must ark you somthing : 
+<huz|test>      i'll already try to make : 'mv /mnt/archos/archos.mod ~/' and my computer freezed (sorry for my english ;)
+<huz|test>      do you know why ? 
+<Zagor> did it really freeze? it can take several minutes to copy the first file to/from the archos, due to it having to read the disk's FAT
+<huz|test>      qok, i musted be impatient .. i try .. hoping i'll stay alive
+<huz|test>      oh oh .. i've lot of 'Jun  2 19:08:23 debian kernel: SCSI disk error : host 1 channel 0 id 0 lun 0 return code = 70000
+<huz|test>      Jun  2 19:08:23 debian kernel:  I/O error: dev 08:01, sector 33358
+<huz|test>      in my /var/log/messages
+<Zagor> ouch, that doesn't look good
+<Zagor> which usb driver are you using?
+<huz|test>      euhh .. UHCI i think, i verify
+<Zagor> uchi.o or usb-uhci.o ?
+<Zagor> you should not be using uhci.o
+<huz|test>      ohci sorry
+<Zagor> ok
+<Zagor> what chipset are you using?
+<Zagor> have you got usb working for any other devices?
+<huz|test>      yes my usb works for my Speedtouch ADSL modem
+<Zagor> ok
+<huz|test>      but normally it works well
+<huz|test>      :)
+---     huz|test is now known as huz|fixarchos
+<huz|fixarchos> ok, another solution : i'll do that atfter dinner with Windows
+<huz|fixarchos> bye
+<--     huz|fixarchos (~marco@AToulouse-103-1-2-61.abo.wanadoo.fr) has left #rockbox
+<Zagor> edx: are you here?
+<Zagor> can anyone build win32 simulators for me to put on the web page?
+<edx>   zagor.. yes i am
+<edx>   i can.
+<Zagor> good. download the 1.0 release and build that. one player sim and one recorder
+<edx>   the new design of the page is cool btw ;)
+<Zagor> yeah. it's ironi's design
+<edx>   shall i take the latest simulator code with the 1.0 app code or shall i also take 1.0 simulator code?
+<Zagor> the 1.0 release contains everything, so use that
+<edx>   there's the uisw32.rc file missing in the 1.0 archive.
+<Zagor> uh, bad.
+<edx>   it should be in cvs though
+<Zagor> yes
+<edx>   .. and button.c is not yet player compatible..
+<edx>   (shall i take the new one for compilation?)
+<Zagor> it isn't?
+<Zagor> is the simulator player compatible as a whole?
+<Zagor> if 1.0 only supports recorder, only build recorder
+<edx>   it only supports the recorder...
+<Zagor> ok, no problem. just build that then.
+<edx>   it is player compatible now (i only miss a player ui.. hehe other wise the simulator looks like a recorder even for the player)
+<edx>   can i send the file via irc?
+<Zagor> sure
+<edx>   do you get the request?
+<Zagor> yes, but not the file
+<edx>   huh?
+<Zagor> mail it to me instead
+<Zagor> maybe it's my firewall
+<edx>   yup
+<edx>   (or my server?)
+<edx>   do you have a front picture of a player?
+<Zagor> sure, on the devcon page
+<edx>   ok.. got it..
+<edx>   ill have a player design for the simulator in the next few days then ;)
+<Zagor> nice
+<edx>   where exactly fails the ata driver for the recorder?
+<Zagor> when we try to send a command to it
+<edx>   so it wont even initialize.. ?
+<Zagor> no
+<edx>   hmm
+<edx>   that is bad.
+<Zagor> we are going to add a serial port to our recorders this week and start experimenting
+<edx>   hehe
+<edx>   did you receive the mail yet?
+<Zagor> yes, got it
+<edx>   ok
+-->     huz (huz@AToulouse-103-1-2-61.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<huz>   okback under win
+<Zagor> ok
+<huz>   nice !:)
+<huz>   first time i see the red led :)
+<Zagor> hehe, yes archos never uses it for some reason
+<huz>   the sound now .. .
+<Zagor> problems?
+<huz>   no, it works perfectly
+<Zagor> good
+<huz>   do you want i make something ? a test  or wathever ..
+<Zagor> do you have a new or old player?
+<Zagor> that is, did you download the player-old or player version?
+<huz>   i've an archos JB600 , but how can i know if i have 'an old' or 'a new' player
+<huz>   the player version 
+<huz>   not the old
+<Zagor> ok
+<Zagor> the ROM firmware version decides
+<huz>   great we can exit the dir and the sound continue to play ! it'sgreat
+<Zagor> so how did you like the big rockbox logo on boot?
+<huz>   euh .. there is a blank line in the midle of Rockbox
+<Zagor> yeah, but I think it's cool anyway :)
+<huz>   vers 5.03 <- my firmware
+<Zagor> yeah, that's a new player
+<huz>   yes logo is great, but isn't it possible to have a music's note (une note de musique ?) 
+<huz>   :)
+<huz>   (ok ok .. i'll wait :)
+<Zagor> yeah it is
+<Zagor> next version :)
+<huz>   i return under linux, i have a strange impression to be observed when i work w/ windows
+<huz>   :)
+<webmind>       hmm
+*       webmind has 5.08
+<--     huz (huz@AToulouse-103-1-2-61.abo.wanadoo.fr) has left #rockbox ("Client Exiting")
+<webmind>       quite odd
+<Zagor> what?
+<webmind>       firmware 5.08
+<webmind>       since newest online 5.07a
+<Zagor> that's not unusual. they don't release the mod files very quickly
+<webmind>       ah ok
+<Zagor> every new release is first released in ROM and then (weeks later) as mod files
+<webmind>       hm k
+<Zagor> I don't know why, but that's what they do
+<webmind>       hm k
+<webmind>       hope rockbox will develop soon.. archos firmware getting anoying as hell
+<Zagor> i think we will go far this summer. I will work on it almost full-time!
+<webmind>       cewl
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+-->     huz (~marco@AToulouse-103-1-2-61.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<huz>   re
+<Zagor> hi. back in linux?
+<huz>   yes :) fluxbox is nicer than windows :)
+<Zagor> indeed
+<huz>   a friend of mine on #debian-france has a recorder, i think he is a bit jalous ;P
+<Zagor> hehe
+---     huz is now known as huz|away
+<huz|away>      fabix ? 
+<Zagor> huh?
+<huz|away>      sorry, i begin to use irssi, and i make some errors :)
+<--     huz|away (~marco@AToulouse-103-1-2-61.abo.wanadoo.fr) has left #rockbox
+-->     huz|away (~marco@AToulouse-103-1-2-61.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #rockbox
+---     huz|away is now known as huz
+<huz>   there is a problem on the web page
+<Zagor> what?
+<huz>   http://rockbox.sourceforge.net/rockbox/ <- if you click 2002-06-01: Version 1.0 is released! Download it here.  <- there
+<huz>   you got a permission denied
+<huz>   (is it understandable?;)
+<Zagor> fixing
+<Zagor> fixed
+<huz>   yes it is, your efficient ;)
+<huz>   (is it the good word ?)
+<Zagor> yep
+<Zagor> thanks :)
+<huz>   is it normal that when we play files we can't  have access to the volume ? 
+<huz>   or to the menu in general
+<huz>   (sorry ... ;)
+<Zagor> you can, but right now you have to exit id3 mode first
+<huz>   exact ! ok, i keep your mod
+<huz>   it's really a great work, i know the project for some times now, and i really admire the work. 
+<Zagor> thanks!
+<edx>   gotta go...
+<edx>   cya
+<Zagor> bye
+<--     edx has quit ("bye")
+*       adam returns
+<Zagor> welcome :)
+<adam>  hey
+*       adam finished reading Guns of the South
+<adam>  :p
+<adam>  grr. evil Linux usb. *reboots*
+<--     adam has quit ("[BX] Have you huggled your BitchX today?")
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<adam>  curses
+<adam>  one thing I miss in good ol RB v1 is the on button + arrow volume change
+<Zagor> yeah
+<adam>  but hey
+<Zagor> we don't have multiple-key support yet, that's why it was left out
+<adam>  time will fix that
+<Zagor> yup
+<Zagor> or I will, at least :)
+<adam>  heh
+<adam>  I'll go write an Everquest bot :p
+<adam>  well, that'd be sick, and wrong
+<Zagor> :)
+<adam>  Machinae Supremacy - March of the (Undead part II)
+<Zagor> yeah, they rock!
+<adam>  ... Adjust my evil parentheses
+<adam>  I've never seen the error led used in the standard archos firmware
+<Zagor> me neither
+<Zagor> i've never thought of it as an error led, though. i always felt it was an activity led
+<adam>  he
+<adam>  I noticed that in the rb firmware
+<Zagor> yeah
+---     huz is now known as huz|php
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<elinenbe>      'ello there
+<Zagor> hi
+<elinenbe>      late night?
+<Zagor> yeah, going to bed soon
+<--     Tumm has quit (Network is unreachable)
+<elinenbe>      congradulations on the awesome work on the project
+<Zagor> thanks
+<--     huz|php has quit ("("dodo")")
+-->     Tumm (coyote@dreamhosted.borlange.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<--     Zagor has quit ("bye")
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     datazone ([sm5Ow6WK8@207.136.36.203) has joined #rockbox
+-->     mat (matt@ex-mormons.for.jes.us) has joined #rockbox
+<mat>   hey
+*       mat is gone.. autoaway after 30 min (log/on!page/on)
+<--     motiv01_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+-->     PiotR (~piotr@212-170-21-172.uc.nombres.ttd.es) has joined #rockbox
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<PiotR> hi
+-->     trillback (~trillian@sdn-ar-001ncraleP307.dialsprint.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Tigren (Tigren@cpe-24-31-57-196.socal.rr.com) has joined #rockbox
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<Tigren>        hey
+<Tigren>        any chance that 1.0 could screw up my jukebox?
+<Tigren>        ie: erase data, screw up hard drive, etc?
+<Tigren>        anyone at all?
+<Tigren>        has 1.0 given you trouble?
+<--     Tigren (Tigren@cpe-24-31-57-196.socal.rr.com) has left #rockbox
+-->     miah (~miah@pihkal.com) has joined #rockbox
+<miah>  hey, great to see you guys released a 1.0
+<miah>  im testing it now
+<miah>  seems to work fine with all my vbr stuff..
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+-->     edx (OKE60@pD9EAA6B7.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<edx>   good morning.
+<--     mat has quit ("User abort with 5 Ctrl-C's")
+<--     edx has quit ("off for school")
+-->     green (~green@adsl-64-160-55-100.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<green> ok - wow.  this is a cool project.
+<green> are any of the hackers online?
+<webmind>       natm
+---     dw|gone is now known as dwihno
+-->     [TDM]Mr_B|away (~nx_2000@ip68-0-62-70.no.no.cox.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     [TDM]Mr_B|away is now known as [TDM]Mr_B
+<--     [TDM]Mr_B has quit ()
+-->     huz (~marco@AToulouse-103-1-2-220.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<huz>   hello
+<huz>   is that normal the rockbox.sf.net returns a forbidden access to index.html ? 
+<webmind>       try /rockbox/ ?
+<huz>   it works
+<webmind>       ok
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        moo
+<webmind>       oi
+<Lion>  badger: What's the optimum malloc() size?
+<Bagder>        you mean the biggest possible?
+<Bagder>        there's currently 128kb available for malloc()
+<Lion>  No, the standard block that doesn't fragment
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Bagder>        well
+<Bagder>        its not that easy to say just one size, but if there's any size that matches that description it is 4064 bytes ;-)
+<Lion>  k
+<Bagder>        what do you want this for?
+---     huz is now known as huz|sdl
+<Lion>  I came up with a method to handle playlists that's both memory efficient and doesn't need a ton of disk spins
+<Bagder>        that is better than keeping the file name indices in memory?
+<Lion>  Yeah
+<Bagder>        so tell me! ;-)
+<Lion>  Lemme write up some stuff for it
+<Bagder>        sounds like a good idea ;-)
+<webmind>       hmm :)
+<Lion>  Hmm, my alg has a added benifit of doing a distance reshuffle
+<Bagder>        what is a "distance" reshuffle?
+*       Bagder fixes the daily build
+<Lion>  Oh, wait, no it can't .. damn, I was thinking backwards.
+<Lion>  distance reshuffle maximizes the distance between currently ordered entries
+<Bagder>        ah
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<Lion>  THOUGH
+<Lion>  It might be easy to do a reshuffle through block swaps as well as cell exchanges
+<Bagder>        just remember that we need deterministic shuffle
+<Lion>  Haha, yeah, that's the basis
+<Bagder>        recorder build is broken again :-(
+<dwihno>        Doesn't really matter since the code won't run on the target platform (yet) ;)
+<Bagder>        it matters anyway
+<dwihno>        yeah
+<dwihno>        I'm just joking :)
+<dwihno>        I guess monday morning isn't such a great time for jokes ;)
+<Bagder>        heheh
+*       Bagder hasnt
+<Bagder>        eaten his breakfast sandwich yet
+<Bagder>        daily-build for recorder is working again
+<Lion>  THis is more designed for big playlists than small.
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<Lion>  But with a device of 6,10,20 gig, large lists are the nrom.
+<Lion>  er, norm
+<Bagder>        yeah
+<huz|sdl>       sorry, i'm just an user but my playlist contains about 20 songs (one album) 
+<Lion>  Heh, then you should have bought a different device.  :)
+<Bagder>        we should deal nicely with small playlists too of course
+<Lion>  They onyl thing that gets weird is shuffling small lists.
+<Bagder>        why?
+<Lion>  When I get done with the doc, you'll know why.
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        ok
+<dwihno>        The built-in shuffle function in the original firmware is really bad :)
+<Lion>  AH HAH
+<Lion>  Never mind, I found a non-conditional way to shuffle even small lists
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+*       adam peeks in
+<adam>  perl overdose
+<huz|sdl>       why in id3.c fonction stripspaces() you don't realloc the buffer ? is it a speed problem ? (i warn i'm not a quite brillant programmer)
+<Bagder>        id3 doesn't use malloc() at all
+<adam>  Heh, 2:36 AM
+<Bagder>        we rather avoid malloc() and associated functions if possible
+<dwihno>        is the malloc stuff slow?
+<huz|sdl>       ok it is thus a speed limitation ? 
+<Bagder>        everything is relative
+<huz|sdl>       :)
+<Bagder>        actually
+<Bagder>        using malloc() in this kind of system is really a sensitive matter
+<Bagder>        so if we know what kind of memory sizes to use and we know it'll be used fairly often, it is better to use static buffers
+<Bagder>        I don't think this malloc() is slowe than other malloc()s, in fact I believe it is faster than most (best-fit) implementations
+<Bagder>        it might have a slightly higher amount of internal fragementation though
+<huz|sdl>       ok thanks
+<Bagder>        also, I made the id3.c work before we even had a malloc() working ;-)
+<dwihno>        malloc is for chickens
+<dwihno>        real men use static buffers :)
+<Bagder>        >500 unread mail this morning
+<dwihno>        eww
+<Bagder>        quite some load
+<dwihno>        that's what happens when you subscribe to pr0n bulletins ;)
+<Bagder>        couldn't read mail when the site was down so this is like four days feed
+<dwihno>        Eww
+<dwihno>        That much mail in 4 days?
+<Bagder>        yah
+<Bagder>        me a mail type of guy
+<dwihno>        That's perverted :)
+<Bagder>        I'm involved in a fair amount of open source projects
+<dwihno>        That's what I get in three years :)
+<dwihno>        What mail client do you use?
+<dwihno>        I bet you have 3000 filtering rules
+<Bagder>        I subscribe to at least 4-5 cvs commit mailing lists
+<Bagder>        I have 13 inboxes
+<Bagder>        I get 150-170 mails daily
+<dwihno>        What client?
+<dwihno>        Pine?
+<Bagder>        pine
+<dwihno>        Mkay
+<dwihno>        I think mutt is cute
+<Lion>  Pine rocks
+<Lion>  Pine+procmail
+<Bagder>        I've tried mutt but never found reasons enough to switch from pine
+<huz|sdl>       ok i goto go
+<Bagder>        without procmail, life gets impossible ;-)
+<--     huz|sdl has quit ("leaving")
+*       dwihno don't know what procmail is good for
+<Bagder>        filtering
+<Lion>  Yeah, and spamassassin also works miracles.  :)
+<dwihno>        mkay
+<Bagder>        it is *THE* mail filtering system
+<dwihno>        spamassassin sounds good :)
+<dwihno>        KILL DA SPAM! :D
+<dwihno>        I usually have filters matching *viagra* *debt consolidation* etc. ;)
+*       Bagder runs for more coffee
+*       dwihno got his 5dl cup of tea all filled up
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> boo!
+*       dwihno gets scared and jumps up in a pinetree
+<Linus> :-)
+<Bagder>        hey Linus
+<Bagder>        good to not have Björn around? ;-P
+<Linus> nice and quiet
+<green> there was talk recently of removing sh-1 support from gcc.
+<green> I think a number of people complained, but I'm not sure what the final decision was.
+<dwihno>        Hmm...
+<dwihno>        Why would they remove it?
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<Linus> dwihno: maybe because it isn't a very popular CPU?
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Lion>  Ok, you want to read this thing?
+<Bagder>        machine died
+<dwihno>        Linus: But why would they dump the support for an architecture they already have code for?
+<Lion>  dwihno: THey have to maintain it.
+<Linus> maybe because they have changed their internal scheduler?
+<dwihno>        Hm
+<dwihno>        Linus: True, ture
+<Lion>  http://www.leonine.com/~lion/temp/playlist.txt
+<dwihno>        Lion Templin reminds me of Simon Templar
+<Lion>  Heh.
+<green> no - because apparently sh-1 support has been broken since September 2001.
+<green> And nobody has bothered to fix it.
+<dwihno>        Lion - the saint
+*       dwihno listens to the saint theme
+<Linus> green: not exactly broken, but not entirely functional...
+<green> I'm just reading up on it.  I don't think their complaint impacts this project.
+<green> GCC's default crt0 uses braf in some assembly, but that instruction isn't available on sh-1.
+<green> rockbox doesn't use gcc's crt0, right?
+<Linus> no, we have our own
+<dwihno>        Evil shiznat 1x2.
+<green> How much ram on these devices?
+<Bagder>        2MB
+<Bagder>        and we need as much as possible for mp3 buffering
+<adam>  heh
+<dwihno>        The memory consumption should be kept to a minumum allowing buff... yeah, exactly what Bagder says....
+<Lion>  Bagder: You read that URL?
+<Bagder>        no, I'll do that
+<adam>  heh, does the buffer automatically read into the next file, like lets say you had a playlist, or does it start out anew with each opened file?
+<Bagder>        it gets fed with the next file
+<adam>  hmm
+<Bagder>        or files if they are small
+<adam>  It'd be an amusingly sadistic hardware hack to have a 64mb Buffer :p
+<adam>  impossible, but amusing in any regards
+<Bagder>        Lion: small first detail: write() will be supported, it just isn't right now
+<Lion>  Bagder: THat's addressed at the bottom
+<Bagder>        ok
+-->     ironi (ironi@as2-5-7.j.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        hey ironi
+<adam>  hey
+<ironi> hello bagder
+<ironi> adam
+<ironi> *yawn*
+*       adam fumbles with tcp tunneling
+<ironi> i just wanted to see whats going on
+<adam>  the things I do to play stupid LAN games :P
+<dwihno>        ironi! :D You and I talked about Dell laptops a couple of days ago, yes?
+<ironi> dwihno: true, true
+<adam>  all because these guys don't feel like crapping out the client/server code any earlier than they feel would be 'perfect'
+<dwihno>        ironi: I've decided to get one :)
+<ironi> cool
+<dwihno>        ironi: I would like to thank you for the tip :)
+<ironi> damnit damnit they lost
+<ironi> aaaargh
+<ironi> im so disappointed
+<dwihno>        which what who?
+<ironi> (watching the world cup)
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        morning Zagor
+<Zagor> yay, what a crowd!
+*       dwihno sighs with relief... Finally someone with some sanity in their pockets who realize the importance of the soccer championships ;)
+<ironi> croatia lost against mexico
+<ironi> scandalous
+<Bagder>        Zagor: of course the recorder build was broken ,-)
+<Zagor> hehe
+<ironi> world cup is the only sporting event i care about
+<Zagor> the changelog doesn't indicate your checking last night
+<ironi> well except the summer olympics
+<Zagor> checkin, even
+<Bagder>        nah
+<Bagder>        I ran it again this morning
+<Bagder>        I had to fix the script
+<Bagder>        since the recorder output has changed namae
+<Bagder>        name
+<Bagder>        ajz
+<Zagor> right
+<ironi> any changes since the first buid?
+<ironi> (thinkig if its any use to put int he new one
+<Zagor> nothing useful over 1.0
+<ironi> k
+<ironi> well im going to get osme sleep
+<ironi> this wa smy last night-shift, returning to normal mode again
+<ironi> finally
+<ironi> and this week i have pretty much nothing to do whatsoever
+<Zagor> i'll have my hands full. resting, sleeping, eating... ;)
+<ironi> :-P
+<ironi> Zagor: no work this week?
+<Zagor> nope
+<ironi> what does /dns cvitan.com give you?
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<ironi> what ip
+<Zagor> 194.236.60.242
+<ironi> ok
+<ironi> that is what it should be
+<ironi> i still get the old one
+<Zagor> ah
+<ironi> well it will probably go trough during the day
+<green> hmmm.. the gcc list says that sh-elf-as silently assembles what is supposed to be sh-1 code as sh-2 .. possibly introducing bad instructions.
+<green> has this been a problem on this project?
+<ironi> i am putting some effort into creating my poersonal homepage this week
+<ironi> one of those never ending projects
+<ironi> =)
+<dwihno>        URL?
+*       Bagder thinks Linus and Zagor might be able to answer to the assembler questions
+<ironi> none of interest yet =)
+<Linus> green: I haven't seen it yet...
+<Bagder>        Zagor: how many mp3s do you have on your archos?
+<Bagder>        you're the worst case I know ;-)
+*       Bagder wonders what a static buffer for the playlist would take
+<webmind>       few k ?
+<Zagor> Bagder: about 3500-4000 files
+<webmind>       files ?
+<Zagor> mp3 files, on my archos
+<Zagor> green: no, we haven't been bitten by that
+<webmind>       owh.. i though on mem
+<webmind>       +t
+<Bagder>        so 10000 files would go pretty far and only take 40000 bytes
+<Zagor> sounds good
+<dwihno>        yeah, sounds pretty good
+<webmind>       40k ?
+<Bagder>        almost
+<Lion>  little more, but close
+<Lion>  I'm going to send my doc to the list.
+<Zagor> Bagder: actually it's 5500+ files
+-->     Lil_Missie (Lil_Missie@kf-nawij-tg04-0479.dial.kabelfoon.nl) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> welcome!
+<Bagder>        Zagor: well, 10000 is still sufficient ;-)
+<webmind>       hi Lil_Missie 
+<Zagor> yeah
+<Lil_Missie>    hi webbie (:
+<Bagder>        Zagor: you read Lion's suggestion?
+<Lil_Missie>    stealing my words are you zagor?
+<Zagor> Bagder: which was that?
+<Bagder>        Zagor: http://www.leonine.com/~lion/temp/playlist.txt
+<Zagor> Lil_Missie: i am?
+<Lil_Missie>    10:36 < Zagor> sounds good
+<Zagor> haha
+<Lil_Missie>     10:36 <@Witchy> sounds good (:
+<Lil_Missie>    yes you were
+<Zagor> Bagder: reading now
+<Bagder>        Zagor: you gonna keep this setup for the rockbox CVS commit mails?
+<green> is the firmware size limit really 200k?  any idea why not more?
+<Bagder>        green: probably only the intial loaded file
+<Bagder>        green: once we have a rolo we can load whatever size we want
+<green> rolo?
+<Bagder>        Rockbox Loader
+<Bagder>        like lilo
+<Zagor> Bagder: you mean cvs@haxx?
+<Bagder>        Zagor: yes
+<Zagor> no, that was just temporary
+<dwihno>        rolo! :D
+<Bagder>        Zagor: I just wanna know for my procmail filtering
+<dwihno>        ROLO WILL OWN! :D
+<Zagor> Bagder: ah
+<green> I'm confused then.  does rolo exist?
+<Zagor> green: no
+<green> can it exist?
+<Zagor> yes, it's something we plan to write
+<Bagder>        green: no, but it would be cool to have a tiny little app loaded first, that can offer the user to load any of set of images
+<green> ok
+<green> I hack on gcj (the gnu java compiler), and I was looking for a fun embedded target to use for J2ME tests.  I might need more that 200k though.
+<Bagder>        the 200k limit is only for the file the firmware loads
+<Lion>  Haha, java on the archos would be great.
+<webmind>       no
+<Bagder>        I mean the original ROMed firmware
+<Zagor> i have to run som errands. see you later guys!
+<--     Zagor has quit ("bye")
+<Lion>  So, about that file?
+<Lion>  Any comments?
+<green> I've just created binutil/gcc patches to create an sh-rockbox target.
+<green> I need this to configure the java runtime properly.
+<webmind>       btw is the rom overwriteable ?
+<green> I don't know if this would be useful to anybody though.
+<Bagder>        webmind: some revisions of the hardware do offer this capability, but don't expect us to attempt that ;-)
+<green> Is there a plan to use more threads in the firmware?
+<webmind>       heh
+<green> I think I only see 1 being created.
+<Bagder>        green: if we need to
+<green> The gcc hackers are adding compiler support for thread local storage.
+<Bagder>        cool
+<green> An sh-rockbox configuration would be necessary in order for it to work on this project.
+<green> Maybe that's a good argument to check this in.
+<Bagder>        I'm not sure we need any particular thread local storage at this point :-)
+<Bagder>        we might need that in the future though of course
+<--     Lil_Missie has quit ("<frogulox>im more than happy to keep playing with you :) [22:45] <Gorilla> I love you Cadavre")
+*       Bagder runs on a meeeting
+*       Bagder is away: I'm busy
+*       Bagder is back (gone 00:14:41)
+<Lion>  woo
+-->     HEMIL (SFDSA@175-SEVI-X25.libre.retevision.es) has joined #rockbox
+<HEMIL> PERO QUE COÑO ES ESTO??
+<webmind>       no
+<dwihno>        hamburgesa con keso, por favor
+<Bagder>        si si
+<HEMIL> pero vamos a ver?
+<HEMIL> donde coño eestoy?
+<webmind>       er ?
+<HEMIL> esto no es el puto irc??
+<HEMIL> hispano?
+<Bagder>        estas aqui ;-)
+<dwihno>        vamos ala discoteca
+<HEMIL> de donde han salido esto s grupos tan raros??
+<HEMIL> tanto linux y tantas pollas en vinagre?
+<HEMIL> que garito es esto?
+<Bagder>        hablamos ingles aqui
+<webmind>       uhm
+<webmind>       dudes
+<webmind>       english ?
+<Bagder>        right
+<Bagder>        that's what i said ;-) 
+<HEMIL> no!
+<webmind>       heh
+<webmind>       yes
+<HEMIL> this is a big shit!
+<Bagder>        haha
+<webmind>       bi
+<green> better
+<webmind>       er
+<webmind>       no
+<HEMIL> home english solutions
+<Bagder>        no, it isn't
+<HEMIL> yes of course
+<HEMIL> HEMIL> ME CAGO EN DIOS
+<HEMIL> <Vladimirr> Ja, helt enig
+<HEMIL> <HEMIL> JA?
+<HEMIL> <HEMIL> tu puta madre!
+<HEMIL> esto es ....
+<webmind>       so?
+<HEMIL> AHORA LO ENTIENDO
+<HEMIL> ESTO ES UN CHAT
+<webmind>       could u plz not shout ?
+<HEMIL> DE LINUX
+<Bagder>        now speak enligh please
+<HEMIL> de gente subbersiva
+---     ChanServ gives channel operator status to Bagder
+<HEMIL> que ha creado un servidor
+<webmind>       the fact that u dont have aol in .se doesnt mean u have to compansate :)
+<--     Bagder has kicked HEMIL from #rockbox (Bagder)
+-->     HEMIL (SFDSA@175-SEVI-X25.libre.retevision.es) has joined #rockbox
+<HEMIL> joder
+<HEMIL> ahora lo entiendo
+<webmind>       what ?
+---     Bagder sets ban on *!*@*.libre.retevision.es
+<--     Bagder has kicked HEMIL from #rockbox (Bagder)
+<webmind>       neat
+<webmind>       weirdo
+<Bagder>        silly person
+<Bagder>        first ban ever in this channel ;-)
+<webmind>       ok..
+<webmind>       always has to be a first
+<webmind>       what did he want btw ?
+<Linus> He mentioned someting about us creating a channel about something that isn't a linux topic
+<webmind>       weird
+<Bagder>        and he said he understood several times ;-)
+<webmind>       ok
+<Bagder>        I don't understand what he understood though ;-)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<webmind>       heh
+<webmind>       me neither..
+<webmind>       my spanish is even worse then my german :)
+<webmind>       witch makes it better then my icelandic
+<webmind>       which
+<Linus> ...or did he ask us if we knew about a channel that talks abour Linux...?
+<Linus> whatever
+<webmind>       hehe 
+<webmind>       lol
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<green> is it possible to use the USB port while music is playing?
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<webmind>       dunno
+<Linus> oops
+<Bagder>        green: I think so, we just can't use the disk
+<webmind>       but it would require 2 object using the hd i think
+<Bagder>        Linus: <green> is it possible to use the USB port while music is playing?
+<webmind>       hmm
+<Linus> well, not really
+<Linus> it all depends on how the ISD200 behaves
+<webmind>       isnt the usb adapter not just only connected to the hd controller ?
+<Linus> The USB adapter is connected to the ATA interface
+<Linus> as is the CPU
+<webmind>       yes
+<Linus> and a couple of buffers isolate the CPU/ISD200 from the ATA interface
+<webmind>       so u would have to communicate with usb through the ATA interface ?
+<Linus> these buffers are controlled with port pins from the CPU
+<Linus> You mean CPU communicating with the PC via USB?
+<webmind>       directly to the usb iface ?
+<Linus> The ISD200 only talks ATA with the disk
+<webmind>       hm k
+<Linus> and the CPU can talk ATA if it disables the ISD200
+<Linus> I gotta go now! CU!
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<webmind>       hm k
+---     dwihno is now known as dw|gone
+-->     huz (~marco@AToulouse-103-1-2-220.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<huz>   back ::)
+<Bagder>        hi
+<--     huz has quit ("("go to schoooOOOoooll")")
+<Bagder>        so there was a posting to that yahoo group for archos?
+<Bagder>        about the 1.0 release I mean
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        rehi
+<--     Zagor has quit (Client Quit)
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     bjst_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        multiple Björns!
+<Tumm>  you should drop a line on www.funmp3players.com
+<--     bjst_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox ("Client Exiting")
+<Zagor> i have
+<--     Zagor has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     bjst_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<--     bjst_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox ("Client Exiting")
+<Zagor> xchat crashed :(
+<Zagor> bagder, are you working on the playlist code?
+<Bagder>        not yet
+<Zagor> ok
+<Bagder>        I'll probably not do anything major until tomorrow evening
+<Zagor> ok
+*       Bagder made the most blatant newbit error in CVS
+<Bagder>        newbie
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Bagder>        I didn't set a tag right after I made a branch
+*       Bagder has to merge 150 files with single invoke cvs commands
+<Bagder>        great fun
+<Bagder>        damn it
+<Bagder>        I'll write a script anyway
+-->     edx (OKE60@pD9EAA6B7.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<edx>   hi
+<Bagder>        g'day edx
+<Zagor> hi
+*       edx wants ata working :P
+*       Bagder agrees
+<Zagor> yeah, we all do
+<edx>   right now.. are you using the same code for player / recorder?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<edx>   that's the ata.c file?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        if you run the archos.ajz file on target, I belive it stops on ata: -5 at this point
+<edx>   heh.. i dont have a clue of this hardware business :).. what function is it in?
+<edx>       if (ata_spindown(1))
+<edx>           return -5;
+<edx>   there?
+<Bagder>        exactly
+<edx>   do you know where inside the spindown function it returns? (or where it sets ret = -1)?
+<Zagor> it times out on response from the command. it does that on any command you send
+<edx>           if (time > 255)
+<edx>   there?
+<edx>   hm no.. sorry that cant even be.. lol
+<edx>   then that's the first waitforrdy call...
+<edx>   hmmm..
+<edx>   why does the freeze_lock thing not return -1?
+<edx>   it uses the command thing as well.
+<edx>   anybody with me?  :)
+<Zagor> it does
+<Bagder>        I'm not ;-)
+<edx>   hmm it does return -1?
+<Zagor> oh, that
+<edx>   that seems to work then.. right?
+<Zagor> no, the recorder simply returns -4. -5 was for a test where we had uncommented freeze_lock()
+<edx>   ahh ok
+<edx>   (bagder just said it was -5.. heh)
+<Zagor> don't listen to him :)
+<edx>   the waitforrdy fails.. right?
+<edx>   the first or the second one?
+<edx>   sorry for bothering you with questions ;)
+<Zagor> i don't remember. the second, i think
+<Bagder>        gotta run, see ya
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<edx>   im away for a few mins as well now ;)
+---     edx is now known as edx|tea
+---     edx|tea is now known as edx
+<Zagor> i'm off for today. bye guys!
+<--     Zagor has quit ("Client Exiting")
+<--     green has quit (Killed (NickServ (Nickname Enforcement)))
+-->     green_ (~green@adsl-64-160-55-100.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs04m-1-242.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<alkorr>        hi !
+<alkorr>        geee people are growing here !
+<--     alkorr has quit (Client Quit)
+<--     edx has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+-->     webmind_ (webmind@seal.student.utwente.nl) has joined #rockbox
+<--     webmind has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     edx (OKE60@pD9EAB3AB.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     wettoad (~wettoad@uludag.mbi-berlin.de) has joined #rockbox
+<ironi> i'm here, but i'm still the same height and weight.
+<ironi> haven't grown a bit.
+<edx>   huh?
+<edx>   what's that stuff you smoke, ironi?
+<--     edx has quit ("good night.")
+<ironi> =)
+<--     ironi has quit (" <k!15b8>")
+-->     Bagder_ (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<--     Bagder_ has quit (Client Quit)
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     ChanServ gives channel operator status to Bagder
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     elinenbe has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.7 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0/20020529]")
+<--     trillback has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     trillback (~trillian@sdn-ar-002ncraleP278.dialsprint.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     kop (~kop@66-2-164-108-chi-01.cvx.algx.net) has joined #rockbox
+<kop>   hi
+<kop>   Congrads on 1.0
+<kop>   Too bad it won't do ogg.
+<kop>   It'd be nice if it'd do some sort of lossless compression too.
+<kop>   bye
+<--     kop has quit ("Leaving")
+---     dw|gone is now known as dwihno
+<dwihno>        Hmm... Audio, lossless compression? How... *ponder*
+<wettoad>       simple
+<wettoad>       remove all the bytes that = 5
+<wettoad>       then randomly add 5 when you play the music
+<dwihno>        ;)
+<datazone>      well, i have a better idea
+<datazone>      since all sound sounds the same at two points: zero volume, and infinite loud volume
+<datazone>      you can then store an infinite amount of music in an extremly small space
+<wettoad>       the you only need 32 bits
+<wettoad>       word
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     carlf (~carlf@fw1.uia.net) has joined #rockbox
+<carlf> Hello all.
+<--     carlf has quit ("leaving")
+-->     edx (OKE60@pD9EABFF8.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<elinenbe>      on Slashdot.... nice.  The only thing is people do not understand the purpose of the project.
+<wettoad>       what is the purpose
+<elinenbe>      Everyone is being quite hard on the project.
+<elinenbe>      hey, EDX
+<edx>   hi
+<edx>   whats about slashdot?
+<elinenbe>      I was wondering if you could e-mail me a binary of the win32 simulator?
+<elinenbe>      the project is on the front page of slashdot
+<edx>   hmm i thoink bjorn even has a release compile on the site...
+<edx>   WHAT?
+<elinenbe>      yeah.  It is right there!
+<elinenbe>      a release of the win32 simulator?
+<edx>   http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/download.html
+<edx>   down there somewhere...
+<edx>   LOL
+<edx>   pretty cool.. that slash dot thing
+<dwihno>        hellö hellö
+<elinenbe>      did you hear the ROLO idea?
+<edx>   rhe rockbox loader..
+<edx>   not exactly..
+<elinenbe>      Rockbox Boot Loader... having a loader will allow firmwares >200k to be loaded
+<edx>   ah ok
+<edx>   hmm it has another advantage:
+<edx>   the descrambling of the firmware takes time.. a loader could be descrambled and then load an unscrambled mod...
+<edx>   that would save boot-up time
+<dwihno>        hm
+<dwihno>        never thought of that... smart
+<edx>   hmm.. I just heard slashdot is popular. how popular is it?
+<elinenbe>      it is quite popular.
+<elinenbe>      actually very popular
+<dwihno>        Yeah... :)
+<dwihno>        slashdot is really fancy stuff
+<elinenbe>      that is a great idea.  mention that to others: the descrambling of the firmware takes time.. a loader could be descrambled and then load an unscrambled mod...
+<edx>   talked about it with bagder.. he mentioned rolo then.
+<edx>   when has the post been put up on slashdot?
+<edx>   (88 replies.. lol)
+<edx>   lol some stupid stuff ppl write sometimes ... :)
+<edx>   (and why dont we have a visitor counter... :P )
+<edx>   ... i gotta leave for school.. cu later.
+<elinenbe>      later
+<elinenbe>      have fun
+<elinenbe>      there is an access log on the web page
+<elinenbe>      ask bjorn about it or someone else...
+<edx>   k :)
+<edx>   later.
+<--     edx has quit ("off for school :(")
+-->     zaggy (~jeff@heredia-a134.racsa.co.cr) has joined #rockbox
+<--     zaggy (~jeff@heredia-a134.racsa.co.cr) has left #rockbox ("insert witty message here")
+<--     elinenbe has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     wiggles (~jirc@ip68-14-13-104.ri.ri.cox.net) has joined #rockbox
+<wiggles>       there is a mistake in the FAQ
+<wiggles>       specifically a typo in Q18
+<wiggles>       I quote
+<wiggles>       << Q18. What about supporting playing of wav files?
+<wiggles>       A18. No Bill.  We have no intention of that.  Go buy your own project. >>
+<wiggles>       this makes very little sense. wav files, though they originated with windows, are very well documented at the moment. it would make more sense if it said "wma files" or "asf files"
+<wiggles>       also, wav files do not compete directly with mp3 files. wma files however do directly compete with mp3 files
+<wiggles>       i'm done complaining. i'll shut up now
+<--     wiggles has quit (Client Quit)
+*       adi|home thinks ppl don't understand sarcasm.
+<adi|home>      "_
+<adi|home>      :)
+<dwihno>        hehe
+<dwihno>        yeah
+<dwihno>        everybody thinks everybody are so serious
+<wettoad>       its cause there is no sarcasm font
+<dwihno>        yup
+<wettoad>       i think it should be left slated italics
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>         /. :-)
+<Bagder>        http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/06/04/0018259
+<adi|home>      i do think i did do a good job making that FAQ nice and sarcasm ladden if i do say so myself
+<Bagder>        hehe, I agree
+<adi|home>      hehe you see all the DMCA comments?
+<Bagder>        yeah
+<Bagder>        almost every second posting seems to mention that in one way or another
+<adi|home>      i like this:
+<adi|home>      ust tried the mod out, works great on my Studio 20, of course the UI has quite a bit till it's up to the current archos build, but it's good to see someone making progress. 
+<adi|home>                   the cool thing about these players it you don't have to actually flash the rom, they boot off of the internal rom for a second and immediately look for a file in the root for updates, if
+<adi|home>                   the file's not there they just continue to boot from hardware. 
+<adi|home>      heheh
+<adi|home>      and i also dig the fact that the FAQ is actually being useful :)
+<adi|home>      way to go Bagder
+<Bagder>        slashdot is likely to be a very good place to get attention
+<adi|home>      yah think?
+<adi|home>      you ever hear of slashdot-effect
+<Bagder>        hehe yes
+<adi|home>      i hope his server can handle it :)
+<Bagder>        we'll see ;-)
+<Bagder>        Björn has written some scripts to deal with too heavy loads
+<Bagder>        it'll be interesting to see if they work ;-)
+<adi|home>      lol
+<adi|home>      Im watching a show on the WTC sept 9th ....
+<adi|home>      i am _never_ going to forget those images...
+*       adi|home sighs
+<wettoad>       i actually saw tha anounce on fershmeat first
+<wettoad>       i have never seen it there before
+<Bagder>        it wasn't there before 1.0
+<adi|home>      hey Bagder.. thats a mighty sexy headshot ;)
+<Bagder>        hah ;-)
+<adi|home>      i think we need a hit counter on the main site...
+<adi|home>      im interested to see how we've done ;)
+<Bagder>        I wanna know too!
+<Bagder>        http://perso.wanadoo.fr/pascal.brisset/kernel3d/kernel3d.html
+<Bagder>        we should have one of those for rockbox ;-)
+<Lion>  So, Bagder, you never really commented on the rest of the doc I submitted ...
+<Bagder>        you mean the "caching" and the saving parts?
+<Lion>  That, and the assumed acceptance of the byte-offset method for storing list entries.
+<Bagder>        the byte-offset method is already used in the playlist code we have ;-)
+<Bagder>        and I like that approach
+-->     globbe (~59@as1-2-5.n.n.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        we will benefit from a cache system too, to avoid reading from the disk more than necessary
+<Lion>  Well, hell, if I'm just repeating what's been said before, *shrug*
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        only partly
+<Bagder>        the current code loads a playlist and creates a single index with all byte-positions for all file names
+<Bagder>        and it offers a randomizer
+<Bagder>        I don't think we need to store the cache on save though
+<Lion>  I never talked about doing that.
+<Bagder>        no
+<Bagder>        saving needs to save the random seed to
+<Bagder>        too
+<Lion>  Not everyone shuffles.
+<Bagder>        true, but for those who do
+<globbe>        sorry if this is an obvious question, but will the firmware work with my jukebox recorder 20?
+<Bagder>        globbe: it _will_, it just don't do it right now ;-)
+<globbe>        haha :)
+<globbe>        looking forward to that :)
+<Bagder>        globbe: we do have a simulator running though
+<Bagder>        yeah, I do too
+<Bagder>        I only have a recorder myself ;-)
+<globbe>        youve done a beautiful job :)
+<Lion>  ok
+<Lion>  mav
+<globbe>        I'm just about to order the ACCESSORY KIT, to get the remote.. is it worth the money?
+<globbe>        (yep that was a cut 'n paste)
+<Bagder>        I dunno, I don't have one
+<globbe>        oki
+<globbe>        thanks anyway.. I'll keep an eye on the webpage for that jukebox 20 upgrade then.. Good luck!
+<Bagder>        thanks
+<--     Lion has quit ("eigh, forget it")
+<--     globbe has quit ("Client Exiting")
+-->     Hadaka (naked@graywolf.onnanifujiyuu.org) has joined #rockbox
+<Hadaka>        whee, rockbox looks awesome
+<Bagder>        ;-)
+<Bagder>        we think so too!
+<Hadaka>        I've got a Recorder 20 - with usb 2.0 and all that - I suppose it's not working on that yet?
+<Bagder>        no, not yet
+<Bagder>        still some problemos on the ata driver there
+<dwihno>        But it's progressing! :)
+<dwihno>        Progress ! Yay!
+<Hadaka>        well I can try some test versions whenever those would come around
+<Bagder>        we'll announce them on the mailing list and the web site as soon as we have any
+<Hadaka>        have to see if I would manage to squeeze some time from other project to code a bit on this
+<Bagder>        we always appreciate more hands in the cookie jar ;-)
+<Hadaka>        hm, you've implemented fat filesystem code yourself there?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Hadaka>        hmmh, I wonder if it would be possible to have a small fat filesystem for bootstrapping the new firmware and then some other filesystem for the rest of the disk...
+<Bagder>        yes it would
+<Bagder>        at least some people have said so
+<Hadaka>        I'm currently having some files as a big file containing ext3 that I'm mounting loopback
+<dwihno>        Is there any limitation on the disk size btw?
+<Bagder>        hm, it wouldn't surprise me if there is one
+<dwihno>        I've read about upgrades to 40 gig
+<Bagder>        isn't there some ~130GB limit/problem ?
+<Bagder>        for standard ata/ide
+<Bagder>        40GB is no problem
+<adi|home>      anyone else been watching the World Cup?
+*       Bagder hasn't
+<adi|home>      you sinner
+<adi|home>      anyone seen edx around?
+<Bagder>        I'm probably the only one in Sweden ;-)
+<adi|home>      wanted to let him know he did a great job on tetris
+<adi|home>      lol@Bagder
+<adi|home>      your boys played once already no?
+<webmind_>      world cup? sth with bra's ?
+<Bagder>        yes, against England
+<Bagder>        yes, tetris was zoomed, wasn't it?
+<webmind_>      ?
+*       Bagder just read the CVS commit mail
+<adi|home>      yup.. it was.. 
+<adi|home>      now I just wanna work on the level timings
+<adi|home>      level 1 is a bit fast
+<adi|home>      whats the matter webmind_
+<Bagder>        well, we'll see how it compares to the actual target timings later on ;-)
+<adi|home>      hehe
+<webmind_>      zoomed ?
+<adi|home>      oh.. tetris used to be VERY small
+<adi|home>      the pieces were 1 pixel wide
+<adi|home>      so tought to work with...
+<adi|home>      edx fixed that by increasing their size (as well as the size of the game board)
+<webmind_>      hm k
+<webmind_>      so wide is your playing field btw?
+<webmind_>      +how
+<adi|home>      umm.. not sure.. ill tell ya in a sec
+<adi|home>      #define TETRIS_TITLE_XLOC  43
+<adi|home>      #define TETRIS_TITLE_YLOC  15
+<adi|home>      i think thats it
+<webmind_>      15 wide ?
+<webmind_>      nice
+<adi|home>      have you played with the simulator?
+<webmind_>      nope
+<webmind_>      not yet
+<adi|home>      you on windows or linux?
+<adi|home>      or mac :)
+<webmind_>      url maybe in topic ?
+<webmind_>      linux
+<webmind_>      and windows :)
+<webmind_>      running linux but have as vnc session to a win box
+<adi|home>      ahh... if you want i can send you a binary for the simulator
+<adi|home>      for linux
+<adi|home>      ill fix the link
+<webmind_>      uhm
+<webmind_>      sure
+<webmind_>      cant i just get form the site ?
+---     ChanServ gives channel operator status to adi|home
+---     adi|home has changed the topic to: "Version 1.0 released! http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox"
+---     adi|home has changed the topic to: Version 1.0 released! http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox
+<adi|home>      sure ya can...
+<adi|home>      just wasnt sure if you did or not ;)
+<webmind_>      hmm thnx
+<adi|home>      no rush
+<adi|home>      do you have a recorder or player?
+<webmind_>      btw ur forgetting a "/" ;)
+<webmind_>      player
+<adi|home>      no im not...
+<adi|home>      you shouldn't need it... 
+<webmind_>      shouldn't need it
+<Tumm>  hehe
+<Tumm>  slashdot... not bad :)
+<webmind_>      but doesnt always work
+<webmind_>      and rfc sez u should :)
+<adi|home>      heheheh 
+<adi|home>      fine.. be annoying ;)
+---     adi|home has changed the topic to: Version 1.0 released! http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+<adi|home>      hey Tumm 
+<webmind_>      cewl :)
+<adi|home>      yup.. and freshmeat.. we're proud ;)
+<Bagder>        announcing everywhere! ;-)
+<Tumm>  seen anything of the slashdot effect yet?
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs04m-5-230.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<--     alkorr (alkorr@srs04m-5-230.n.club-internet.fr) has left #rockbox
+<webmind_>      uhm
+<webmind_>      mind if i give some comment on the player sim ?
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs04m-5-230.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<--     alkorr (alkorr@srs04m-5-230.n.club-internet.fr) has left #rockbox
+<adi|home>      sure.. 
+<adi|home>      always looking for comments
+-->     ploof (alkorr@srs04m-5-230.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<adi|home>      even mail to the list if you wish
+<webmind_>      ah.. wrong argument gives more info then -help (gives version only)
+<webmind_>      and when i just start it.. it dies emediatly
+<adi|home>      hmm?
+<adi|home>      oh, you mean on the configure?
+<webmind_>      what configure ?
+<adi|home>      i dont understand what you mean about the help file?
+<adi|home>      or help.
+<webmind_>      when u start the simulator
+<webmind_>      u just get the argument
+<webmind_>      when u do: player -help
+<webmind_>      u just get the version
+<adi|home>      right it doesn't take any arguments
+<adi|home>      its simulating the firmware
+<adi|home>      firmware doesn't take args
+<webmind_>      when u give a wrong argument like player --help it gives a list of possible arguments
+<webmind_>      that's not what it tells me :)
+<adi|home>      hmm.. that must be recent.. hadn't noticed
+<webmind_>      rockboxui 0.1
+<webmind_>                 eXcellent GUI
+<webmind_>      Unrecognised option: --help
+<webmind_>      Options include: -root, -window, -mono, -install, -noinstall, 
+<webmind_>                       -visual <arg>, -window-id <arg>, -server <arg>, -help.
+<adi|home>      OHHH..
+<adi|home>      i know why
+<webmind_>      that :)
+<adi|home>      its not the sim
+<webmind_>      sorry for the paste
+<adi|home>      its the X files
+<adi|home>      we did a hack and slash off of another X interface
+<adi|home>      so we could get the gui stuff going
+<webmind_>      uhm k
+<adi|home>      ill see if i can fix that
+<webmind_>      this what it said under player simulator
+<--     ploof (alkorr@srs04m-5-230.n.club-internet.fr) has left #rockbox
+<adi|home>      okay.. it no longer takes args...
+<adi|home>      it tells you not to use them if you try, then it exits
+<adi|home>      okay.. now about your exit problem...
+<adi|home>      you need to create a dir called 'archos'
+<adi|home>      its treated as the root dir
+<adi|home>      try this, download the daily tarball
+<adi|home>      untar it
+<adi|home>      cd into tools
+<adi|home>      and run the configuration file
+<adi|home>      that should set up everything you need
+<Bagder>        or just do 'mkdir builddir; cd builddir; ../tools/configure; make'
+<adi|home>      yuppers
+*       adi|home heads off to bed and fall asleep to soccer
+<adi|home>      god i love world cup time :)
+<Bagder>        night adi
+<webmind_>      bye
+<webmind_>      hmm
+<webmind_>      where can i download tetris ?
+<adi|home>      you don't have to...
+<adi|home>      compile for the recorder
+<adi|home>      its part of the sim
+<webmind_>      not for player ?
+<Bagder>        tetris for the player would be slightly limited
+<webmind_>      damn
+<webmind_>      to small a screen ?
+<Bagder>        to small, and not flexible enough
+<webmind_>      hmm damn
+<adi|home>      basicallly.. the player only has 2 lines
+<adi|home>      the recorder has much more flexibility
+<webmind_>      damnit
+<webmind_>      awell
+<webmind_>      toobad
+<webmind_>      have fix a gameboy then
+<webmind_>      :)
+<adi|home>      or buy a recorder ;)
+<webmind_>      gameboy somewhat cheaper :)
+<adi|home>      recorder much mroe fun ;)
+<webmind_>      hmm
+<webmind_>      no cash for that
+<Bagder>        http://storebror.haxx.se/nonstop/
+<Bagder>        first basic test
+<Bagder>        I'd say very basic
+<adi|home>      what are you trying to do?
+<Bagder>        build for all platforms when changes are made to CVS
+<Bagder>        to verify the builds
+<adi|home>      got ya
+<Bagder>        too often some casual change a build that the person who did the change didn't test
+<Bagder>        hm, weirdly put but I guess you understand ;-)
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> hi guys!
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> hey guys
+<Linus> yo Zagor!
+<Zagor> seems the web site survived slashdot
+<Linus> but not the SSH server...?
+<Zagor> that was the silly lids bugging
+<Linus> ah ok
+<Zagor> fixed now
+<Zagor> we got a flood of new mail list subscriptions too :)
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|meeting
+<Bagder>        rehi
+-->     edx (~not@pD9560A24.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<edx>   yo
+<Bagder>        hey edx
+<Zagor> hi bagder
+<Zagor> edx!
+<edx>   im at school currently.. :(
+<Zagor> i wonder if anyone got booted to the web mirror
+<Bagder>        Zagor: check my initial attempt: http://storebror.haxx.se/nonstop/
+<edx>   zagor.. you have any information about how many ppl have been on the page yet :)
+<Zagor> apparently we didn't suffer too badly anyway
+<Zagor> edx: i'll do a log analysis later
+<edx>   ok hehe
+<edx>   .. it doesnt stay too long on the front page of slashdot, does it?
+<Zagor> Bagder: ah, nice
+<Zagor> edx: no. a day, maybe two
+<Bagder>        Zagor: it isn't automatic yet or anything, but the basic scripts seem to be working
+<edx>   bagder: recorder simulator (win32) version is missing heh
+<Zagor> we're 131 people on the list now
+<Bagder>        edx: when you have that buildable on my linux box, I'll add it ;-)
+<edx>   bah :P
+<edx>   use vmware or something lol
+<Bagder>        I'll build 9 different combinations
+<edx>   yeez.. one min till class starts.. :/
+<edx>   later.
+<--     edx has quit (Client Quit)
+<Bagder>        http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=33624&cid=3636700
+<Bagder>        fine comment 
+<Zagor> yup. i'm going through all comments, replying to some of them
+<Bagder>        way to go
+<Zagor> there, the most frequently comments adressed
+<Zagor> we should add a FAQ about DMCA...
+<Bagder>        yes
+-->     ChrisJ (~cmj@216.57.146.2) has joined #rockbox
+---     Linus|meeting is now known as Linus
+<Zagor> hi ChrisJ
+-->     edx (~not@pD9560A24.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     edx is now known as edx|class
+<edx|class>     yo
+<Linus> yo
+<--     ChrisJ (~cmj@216.57.146.2) has left #rockbox
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Bagder>        you scared him off!
+<Zagor> so linus, when will you fix me up a serial port for my recorder? :)
+<edx|class>     still in class :/
+*       Zagor is very scary
+<edx|class>     lol ill have irc running during class heh - teachers wont get it anyways
+<edx|class>     (just cant chat so its no use lol)
+<Bagder>        edx|class: you can read when we chat about you ;-)
+<edx|class>     hmm number of ppl in irc increased :)
+<Linus> Well Zagor. Why me? :-)
+<Bagder>        Linus: you are the chosen one
+<Zagor> Linus: because you're our solder slave
+*       Linus feels special
+<edx|class>     :P
+*       edx|class needs a slave as well
+<dwihno>        Linus: How far away is a mp3 decoder for the recorder series? :)
+*       Bagder kneels in front of the solder slave
+<Zagor> dwihno: heh, we definitely need gdb first...
+<Linus> dwihno: It's only about 100% left
+<edx|class>     .. teacher's back in a sek.. *bye*
+<dwihno>        Linus: Yay! :D So it's started! :D
+<Bagder>        haha
+<Linus> Have we heard of any bugs yet?
+*       Bagder hasn't
+<Zagor> nope
+<Zagor> what, would we write bugging code? *offended*
+<dwihno>        ata: -5
+<dwihno>        I rest my case ;)
+<Zagor> i'd like to get people to try some songs they get skips on
+<Zagor> dwihno: well, that's not released. it doesn't count :)
+<dwihno>        Zagor: now you're making exceptions! :)
+<--     Zagor has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+<dwihno>        Oh no!
+<dwihno>        Poor Zagor
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> whoops, killed the wrong xterm :)
+<Linus> Linux newbie
+<Zagor> haha
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        more more!
+<Linus> Zagor: I managed to compile 2.4.19-pre9 on my new A7V333 yesterday
+<Linus> Zooooooooom!
+<Zagor> Linus: neato
+<Linus> Runs like the wind
+<Linus> But man, it takes forever to compile wit PIO on the hard drive
+<Linus> And all those compiling errors...
+<Zagor> compile errors?
+<Linus> I guess pre9 is somewhat on the edge
+<Linus> Yeah. Some of the drivers didn't compile at all
+<Linus> Like the Texas 1394 driver
+<Bagder>        that's neat.... eh. not
+<dwihno>        Texas 1x2 driver
+-->     XpDuDe (trilluser@212.199.206.92) has joined #rockbox
+<--     edx|class has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+*       Bagder thinks we have a "most people in channel ever record"
+<Zagor> heh, yeah
+*       dwihno is pretty pissed off
+<dwihno>        My $130 headphones are fux0ring!
+*       Bagder tried the nonstop script after Linus fix
+<Bagder>        worked nicely
+<Linus> c00l
+<Bagder>        I check for differences in the CVS/Entries files after a cvs update
+<Bagder>        if there are, I rebuild all 
+<Linus> Nice
+<Linus> Tinderbox?
+<Bagder>        homebrewed tinderbox ;-)
+<Bagder>        the real thing seems a bit more complicated
+<Zagor> thunderbox?
+<Linus> :-)
+<Bagder>        lunchbox
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> Linus: why did you move NUM_TICK_TASKS to the header file?
+<Linus> Because I felt that it belonged there
+<Zagor> but it's only used in the .c file, right?
+<Linus> yes, but the max number of allowed tasks should be public info...or?
+<Zagor> oh, that's what it is? not exactly obvious from the name :)
+<Linus> I can change it to MAX_NUM_TICK_TASKS
+<Zagor> no problem, i was just curious
+<Linus> CVS through an SSH tunnel through an HTTP proxy rocks! :-)
+<Bagder>        well isn't it cvs through ssh through ssh through http proxy? ;-)
+<Linus> yeah
+<Linus> I think that the ID3 parsing should be done by the MPEG thread.
+<Bagder>        I think so too
+<Linus> At least the parsing of the songs we're playing
+<Bagder>        yeah
+<Bagder>        there migth be reasons to do out "on demand" too at times of course
+<Bagder>        to do it
+<Linus> yup.
+<Linus> So we need to make it reentrant... :-(
+<Bagder>        argh
+<Linus> agreed
+<Bagder>        nah, why?
+<Bagder>        we just won't yield() in it
+<Linus> we yield in the ATA code
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Linus> it bites
+<Bagder>        say no more ;-)
+<Bagder>        http://daniel.haxx.se/rockbox-auto/
+<Linus> Bagder: can you make it your mission to fix the ID3 code?
+<Bagder>        yessir!
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|brb
+<Bagder>        the auto page is now running
+<Bagder>        let's hope it works too ;-)
+<Zagor> i'll add it to the daily page
+-->     jedix (~liam@fwott1-1.cis.ec.gc.ca) has joined #rockbox
+<jedix> hi
+<Zagor> hi
+<Bagder>        hey ho
+<Bagder>        Zagor: you can wait a little first to allow me to smoothen out the early quirks
+<Zagor> ok
+<Bagder>        it now checks for CVS differences every hour
+---     Linus|brb is now known as Linus
+<jedix> how much do these things run ya?
+<Zagor> price, you mean?
+<jedix> yeah
+<Zagor> about $250 for the base model, I think. $350 for the top model
+-->     jimperson (~default@65.42.14.199) has joined #rockbox
+<jedix> thats usd?
+<Bagder>        yeps
+-->     dfg (~prv@209.166.235.91) has joined #rockbox
+<jedix> I see, hows the play time?
+<Bagder>        ~10 hours on the standard batteries
+<jedix> thats good, en?
+<jedix> how big are they?
+<Bagder>        disk size?
+<Bagder>        or just measures?
+<jedix> measures
+<jedix> its 20gb, right?
+<Bagder>        the biggest factory delivered disk size is 20GB yes
+<jedix> I was thinking of getting an ipod, but my linux enviro. probably won't go over well..
+<Zagor> 115x83x34mm (4.5 x 4.2 x 1.3")
+<jedix> and I'd have to get a firewire port
+<Zagor> the biggest model is 20GB, but you can replace the disk with up to 60 GB
+<Bagder>        usb2, no firewire
+<Bagder>        ah
+*       Bagder doesn't read, only speak :-P
+<jedix> so this is looking better :)
+<Zagor> I recommend the recorder20, it's the best model
+<jedix> plus your hacks are very interesting..
+<Zagor> look here for a comparison: http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/devcon/show.cgi?img4083.jpg
+<dwihno>        recorder20 ownz
+<jimperson>     does anyone use an fm transmitter for listening in the car? does it work well?
+<Zagor> i've read people use it successfully, haven't tried it myself
+<jimperson>     http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?code=5403-SFMX
+<jimperson>     here's one i'm lookin' at
+<jedix> so they need a heafty pocket to fit into.. do they use a normal ide hdd?
+<Zagor> looks fine to me. :) i have no experience with FM transmitters, though
+<Zagor> jedix: normal laptop 2.5" hdd, yes
+<Zagor> 9.5mm height
+<jedix> sweet
+<jedix> jimperson: is that the actual size?
+<Linus> But definitely not a device for a skiing trip.
+<jedix> why is that?\
+<jimperson>     ya know im not sure
+<Linus> The HD is somewhat shock sensitive
+<Zagor> well it has moving parts, so if you bump it around too much it will skip
+<jedix> really? so its not shock proof?
+<Bagder>        if you'd wrap a *huuuge* pillow around the archos ;-)
+<Linus> or swallow it
+<Zagor> no hd players are really shock proof
+<jedix> 2mb buffer isn't enough?
+<Bagder>        I don't think they're talking about the buffering
+<Zagor> it depends on how rough you treat it
+<jimperson>     is there an effective carrying case that would, say strap to my arm for jogging?
+<Linus> If you drop it while it is spinning, i guess you could even damage it...
+<Linus> I think it weighs too much for jogging
+<Zagor> jimperson: the included case only has a belt strap
+<jedix> yeah, if I run with it, will it skip?
+<jedix> Linus: more of a work out then :)
+<jimperson>     which begs the question, how much does it weigh :)
+<Zagor> hard to say. I mountain bike with mine and only get rare skips 
+<Linus> yes, if you have it in the belt strap
+<Zagor> http://www.archos.com/us/products/product_jbrecorders.html
+<Linus> I run with it to catch the train
+<jedix> I hope I can find one in ottawa
+<Linus> and it skips if i have it in the belt strap
+<dwihno>        Mine has never skipped
+<Linus> because the belt strap is loose
+<jedix> Linus: and your arms are.. a) as big as twigs b) steal gurders c) the train itself
+<dwihno>        I always keep it in my special handthingy when I run
+<jimperson>     aha! a custom special handthingy! exactly what i need :)
+<Linus> jedix: they are huge! :-)
+<Linus> as are all hacker arms
+*       Zagor tries not to laugh
+*       Bagder giggles as he can't resist
+*       jedix runs to the bathroom to not piss himself
+<jedix> I think i'll get one for the hackability of it..
+<jimperson>     she was so impressed by my special handthingy she could hardly contain herself
+<Bagder>        jedix: that's what I did ;-)
+<dwihno>        :)
+<jedix> work==boardom this workterm
+<Linus> I have two
+<Zagor> oooh, a contest!
+<dwihno>        I made it myself (the handthingy)
+<Linus> Zagor has three
+<Zagor> i have three :)
+<jimperson>     you gots pics of your handthingy?
+<dwihno>        jimperson: no, but I'll fix0r :)
+<elinenbe>      who was here talking about ROLO?
+<jedix> what does your firmware do right now?
+<jimperson>     rolo? you mean lamont's friend from sanford and son?
+<Linus> jedix: it plays pm3's
+<Linus> mp3's
+<Bagder>        and shows id3
+<dwihno>        It also plays tetris
+<dwihno>        (very important feature)
+<Linus> and says "rockbox" when you start it :-)
+<jedix> sweet
+<Zagor> dwihno: only the simulator right now
+<elinenbe>      edx and I were talking last night, and what you can do is load a small ROLO firmware, and then have that load an uncompressed larger firmware.. this would reduce the boot up time
+<dwihno>        Yeah, that must not be forgotten
+<dwihno>        Zagor: OMG!
+<jedix> so its all the support the player has before the firmware change?
+<Bagder>        elinenbe: yeps
+<Zagor> elinenbe: yes
+<dwihno>        I think I'll start mass-producing the handthingy and get rich
+<dwihno>        The design is really smart
+<jedix> dwihno: thats how I passed calc1-3
+<elinenbe>      even the 5-10 second start up time feels kind of long.
+<jimperson>     hey man, i would buy one. i believe handthingy.com is available...
+<jedix> dwihno: catchy name too.. handthingy.
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Zagor> elinenbe: 90% of the startup time is the Archos ROM firmware, not Rockbox
+<dwihno>        Then I'll start the production in taiwan and hire youngsters to cut the salaries and get rich and fat
+<elinenbe>      well,  that can not be changed now, can it?
+<jimperson>     you could open your own sweatshop and mass produce them with cheap illegal immigrant labor...
+<Linus> elinenbe: not easily
+<elinenbe>      I see.
+<jedix> i'm going to get myself a snack
+<jedix> brb
+<jimperson>     mmm.. snak
+<Zagor> elinenbe: that would require flashing it, which is a whole new ballgame
+<Bagder>        flashing this kind of things feels... well, a bit like pushing our luck ;-)
+<elinenbe>      yes it is.
+<elinenbe>      well, someday a rolo loader will be flashed, and then it will load our custom firmware.
+<Bagder>        though I bet dwihno would be first in line for doing it :-)
+<Linus> :-)
+<elinenbe>      if something went wrong there... goodbye jukebox.
+<Bagder>        we'll let Björn do the testing, he has the largest amount of units ;-)
+<Zagor> hehe
+<jimperson>     how is the download speed to the archos over usb?
+*       Bagder whispers "usb2 rocks"
+<jimperson>     yeah but i dont have usb2 on my powerbook
+<Linus> roughly 1mb/sec
+<dwihno>        Bagder: How fast are the transfers?
+<dwihno>        TO ALL YOUR HEADS... BLAST THE SPEAKERS!
+<Bagder>        dwihno: I haven't actually measured
+<Zagor> with usb2 it's 4-8 MB/s
+<dwihno>        Whoa
+<dwihno>        Fucking amazing :)
+<dwihno>        USB1 is good enough for me
+<dwihno>        (until USB2 is standard, that is)
+<Zagor> that speed is limited by the archos, not usb2
+<Linus> Zagor: have you measured on a Windows machine?
+<dwihno>        mkay
+<dwihno>        good enough for me ;)
+<Zagor> Linus: no, i have never used my archoses with windows
+<dwihno>        is it the disk speed or some interface which is setting the limit?
+<Zagor> dwihno: i'm not sure
+<Linus> I mean if the Linux USB implementation slows it down...
+<Zagor> could be either
+<Linus> dwihno: the ISD300 chipo ises PIO
+<Linus> uses
+<Zagor> Linus: that's possible, but I doubt you can get much above 10MB/s anyway
+<Linus> Probably not
+<Bagder>        Zagor/Linus: my windows tests showed ~4 MB/s
+<Linus> lame
+<Linus> I must try it tonight
+<Bagder>        some 15GB in about on hour
+<Linus> but do not try it on batteries...
+<dwihno>        Linus: Hmm, PIO is no good
+<Bagder>        not measured exactly so give or take a bunch 
+<Linus> dwihno: nope. But cheap
+<dwihno>        True, true.
+<dwihno>        We need some boot sounds too! :)
+<dwihno>        Like some squeaky noise or something
+<Zagor> yeah, startup sound! wooooo :)
+<dwihno>        Yeah!!! :D
+<Zagor> maybe we can ask Rolling Stones if they'll let us use one of their songs? ;)
+<dwihno>        Hey, why is the startup-time for the archos so long? :)
+<Linus> Who wants to work on the sound effects for tetris?
+<Zagor> good question. it does a lot of disk scratching for very little apparent reason
+<Linus> dwihno: the recorder startup time is a pain
+<Linus> but the player is pretty short
+-->     Kaze (~chaz@chaz6.com) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> hey Kaze!
+<jedix> oh, now to find a place to buy one of these things..
+<Linus> go! go! go!
+<Kaze>  oh sorry.. hi
+<Linus> Zagor: I guess the SPDIF is the way to go for the debugging port...?
+<Zagor> yep
+<Linus> I think I'll try that ASAP
+<Zagor> goodie
+<Linus> (ASAP means "maybe this month" :-)
+<Zagor> haha
+<jedix> damn, how can I search the net for a store with this?
+<Zagor> good question
+<Kaze>  use... a search engine perhaps? :p
+<Linus> i search and search, and all i find is this damn Rockbox page...
+<Zagor> http://www.archos.com/us/archos_reseller.html
+<jedix> Kaze: didn't work too well
+<Zagor> jedix: is none of the listed ok?
+<jedix> Zagor: thanks, I'm there now
+<Bagder>        http://www.funmp3players.com/ sells them too
+<jimperson>     so $299 is pretty much the standard price on these eh?
+<jimperson>     the 20 that is...
+<Bagder>        seems so
+<Zagor> i think so, yes
+<jedix> i was at a place that only sold 6gbs and it was 350
+<Zagor> ouch!
+<dwihno>        yeah, that was expensive!
+<Zagor> make sure you get a Recorder20 and not just a recorder with 20 gig disk.
+<Zagor> only the model called Recorder20 has usb2, the others have usb1.1
+<Linus> only the recorder20 has usb2.0
+<Zagor> it appears funmp3players sell upgraded recorders too, so make sure what you get before you order
+<Linus> Zagor: which reminds me...has anyone tried the Rockbox recorder firmware on a usb1.1 recorder???
+<Zagor> i don
+<Zagor> 't know
+<Zagor> it would indeed be interesting
+<Bagder>        hardly anyone has tried that, so I'd guess not
+<Linus> I can't blame them... :-)
+<jedix> $549.99 Archos Jukebox Studio Recorder 20 (thats canadian)
+<Bagder>        do we even know anyone with such a device?
+<jedix> jebus thats high
+<Zagor> what
+<Zagor> 's the can/usb rate?
+<Zagor> usd even :)
+<Linus> Bagder: we can fool jedix into buying one
+<jedix> usd == 336
+<Bagder>        can/usb rates just has gotta be bus related ;-)
+<Zagor> hehe. gotta be 1:12 then
+<Linus> Bagder: you're a funny guy! :-)
+<jedix> Linus: what such device is this?
+*       Bagder grins
+<Linus> jedix: a USB1.1 recorder
+<jedix> ....
+<Bagder>        we could ask on the list to see if we can find anyone
+<Linus> good idea
+<jedix> Archos Recorder 20 on sale this week only for $299 with free shipping*
+<Zagor> jedix: there are many models of archos jukebox: Archos Jukebox 5000, 6000, Studio 10, Studio 20, Recorder, Recorder 10 and Recorder 20
+<Zagor> jedix: sounds like an excellent offer
+<jedix> that has to be canadian
+<--     jimperson has quit ("friends don't let friends listen to trance")
+<jedix> Zagor: yeah, I hear the recorder 20 is the best
+<Zagor> yup
+<jedix> linux compatable?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        usb2 needs an extra patch though
+<jedix> then why the hell don't I have one?
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Hadaka>        not too many motherboards come with usb 2.0 these days :(
+<Bagder>        just buy a separate usb2 card
+<Linus> Hadaka: kt333
+<Zagor> they are just now starting to put usb2 in new motherboard chipset
+<Zagor> i wonder what took them so long :(
+<Hadaka>        yeah well it's not like I'm buying a new motherboard anytime soon
+<Linus> A separate USB2.0 card works fine
+<Zagor> no, me neither. but I got myself a plugin card. it's worth it.
+<jedix> Canadian Residents add 7% GST Ontario Residents add 8% PST
+<jedix> damnit
+<jedix> i'm in ontario
+<Linus> tough luck
+<jedix> you don't need usb2
+<jedix> you can use 1.1
+<Hadaka>        yeah, I'm living well enough with usb1.1 for now
+<Zagor> yeah, but waiting for transfers gets boring fast
+<jedix> it will be a bit slower
+<jedix> how slow is it?
+<Linus> "a bit"
+<Linus> 1 mb/sec
+<Zagor> 1.1 is 700-1000 kb/s, usb2 is 4-8 MB/s
+<Hadaka>        well the thing that bothers me most is the waiting for the disk to spin up between all sorts of actions
+<jedix> Zagor: bits?
+<Zagor> yeah, we have a couple of ideas to avoid some of that
+<Zagor> jedix: bytes
+<jedix> kB
+<Linus> but it's something you'll have to live with
+<Hadaka>        err, in USB mode?
+<Linus> the hard drive sucks batteries
+<jedix> thats not bad at all
+<Zagor> Hadaka: your disk spins down in usb mode?
+<jedix> Linus: ~10h playback though, right?
+<Linus> jedix: yup
+<Hadaka>        well I'd say so, yes - I can hear it spinning up when I start reading
+<Zagor> strange. for me it spins constantly.
+---     dwihno is now known as dw|gone
+<Hadaka>        I've got 1.24 firmware in the flash rom for me
+<Zagor> same here
+<Hadaka>        ok have to check it at home again to see if it really does that
+<Zagor> ok
+<Hadaka>        think my work machine is compiled against the wrong UHCI driver - getting lockups with transfers
+<Linus> ouch!
+<Zagor> ah, that's no fun
+<Hadaka>        happened with my laptop too - then I changed the driver
+<Hadaka>        and managed to get one directory of unremovable junk on the disk
+<Hadaka>        though I suppose that's fixable with reformatting - can you do that in linux or do you have to use windows for that?
+<--     XpDuDe has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<Zagor> you can do that in linux
+<Zagor> it's just like any other scsi device
+<Hadaka>        I remember seeing some weird FAT restoration utility way back - that's not necessary then these days or?
+<Zagor> umm, well I don't have it anyway :)
+<Hadaka>        you've don mkfs.vfat on the archos from linux?
+<Zagor> yup
+<Hadaka>        oh goodie, then I dare to try
+-->     Jigsta (~Mark@host217-39-163-123.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> hey Jigsta
+<Jigsta>        Hi Linus
+<Bagder>        heh, that auto build worked crap on the first automatic run ;-)
+<Zagor> hehe
+<--     elinenbe has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<Jigsta>        Just stumbeled accross your sourceforge page, sounds like a nice project
+<Zagor> well, we like it :)
+<Bagder>        a nice project it is
+<Jigsta>        :o)
+*       Bagder does the yoda talk
+<Zagor> the yoda talk, bagder does
+*       Bagder chuckles
+<--     green_ has quit ("Client Exiting")
+<jedix> so, what is the firmware coded in?
+<Linus> C
+<jedix> really? I was expecting some sort of assembly
+<Zagor> some assembly required :)
+<jedix> why type of assembly?
+<Zagor> sh-1
+<Zagor> for the startup code, setting vector table, stack pointer and such things
+<Bagder>        and the thread switch
+<Zagor> yes
+<jedix> oh, I haven't done any sh-1
+<Bagder>        a perfect opportunity! ;-)
+<Zagor> you don't need it. all application code is C
+<jedix> I have C expierence.. but who doesn't ;)
+<Hadaka>        is the hd access blocking right now btw?
+<jedix> what fs is the hdd?
+<Zagor> Hadaka: yes
+<Zagor> jedix: fat32
+<Bagder>        plain old silly fat32
+<Hadaka>        hm, the main annoyance in the UI is the blocking operations (the archos firmware ui that is)
+<Zagor> it's rather adequate for this kind of use, though
+<Zagor> Hadaka: yeah, but we've got threading. so blocking I/O is not a real problem
+<Hadaka>        Zagor: but don't the threads have to yield? or do they do that in the I/O code?
+<Linus> the I/O code yields
+<Zagor> yup
+<Hadaka>        so other threads run while the hd spins up? goooodie
+<Zagor> yep
+<Linus> one of our goals is to make our firmware more "snappy" than the original
+*       Bagder spots Linus' last-mp3-byte fix ;-)
+<Zagor> funny noone complained about that :)
+<Bagder>        haha
+<Bagder>        yeah
+<jedix> snappy?
+<Bagder>        don't everyone spend hours and hours running our software and listen carefully at the ends of songs? ;-)
+<Zagor> jedix: responsive
+<Jigsta>        Hmm. Off to have a play :) cheers guys.
+<--     Jigsta (~Mark@host217-39-163-123.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has left #rockbox
+<jedix> last-mp3-byte fix?
+<Linus> It could truncate the last byte of a sing
+<Bagder>        we have a cvs-commit mailing list
+<Linus> song
+<Linus> if the length was odd
+<Bagder>        gotta run, see ya
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<Hadaka>        how much does the recorder 20 have ram? 1mb?
+<Zagor> 2MB
+<Linus> 2mb
+<Linus> All devices have the same amount
+<Hadaka>        hm, that machine seems like quite nice to code for
+<Zagor> yeah, it's not bad
+<Linus> fun indeed
+<Hadaka>        especially with the gdb on serial :P
+<jedix> what type of mp3 does it support?
+<Zagor> all types
+<jedix> 320kbps? vbr?
+<Linus> that one was also fun to code
+<Linus> jedix: yes
+<jedix> cool
+<Hadaka>        Ooo, RTC
+<Zagor> yeps
+<Linus> we don't have any drivers for it yet though
+<jedix> what does the player origionally support?
+<Linus> jedix: you mean bitrates and such?
+<jedix> yeah
+<Linus> the same
+<Hadaka>        now all we need is a rocking microkernel :P
+<Zagor> although people keep saying it skips on high bitrates
+<Linus> jedix: but some people say that the original firmware has troubla playing 320kbps
+<jedix> some guy on /. said that it only supports the common bitrates
+<Zagor> never trust /. :)
+<Zagor> I have personally tested Rockbox with 256 and 320 kbit
+<Hadaka>        hm, there probably is nothing in the style of an MMU is there?
+<Zagor> no
+<Linus> Gotta go now! CU guys!
+<Hadaka>        oh well, one can't have everything
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<Zagor> we don't really need it
+<jedix> !? no recorder support
+<Zagor> not in 1.0, no
+<Hadaka>        well true - but a microkernel could use it for memory protection - and swapping is easier to achieve too
+<Zagor> we haven't finished all drivers for recorder yet
+<jedix> how long until then?
+<jedix> 42?
+<Zagor> hard to say. a few weeks perhaps. we don't know exactly why it doesn't work.
+<--     wettoad has quit ("Client Exiting")
+-->     checkeetout (~checkitou@198-143-202-18.ded.btitelecom.net) has joined #rockbox
+<checkeetout>   Howdy!
+<checkeetout>   Anyone feel like fielding a quick question about the Rockbox project?
+<Zagor> sure
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<checkeetout>   hellllllooooooooo!
+<checkeetout>   Anyone out there?
+<Zagor> yes, ask your question
+<checkeetout>   thanks
+<checkeetout>   :)
+<checkeetout>   I was just checking out the Rockbox project and it looks pretty cool
+<checkeetout>   I just want to make sure I'll still be able to access my jukebox from Windows XP if I install this new firmware
+<checkeetout>   I use it a lot to carry files home from work to work on at home
+<Zagor> yes, the firmware does not affect the usb mode
+<checkeetout>   Excellent
+<checkeetout>   :)
+<checkeetout>   thanks for the info :)
+<Zagor> no problem
+<checkeetout>   I'm going to go download it now
+<Zagor> have fun
+<Zagor> i'm off to a meeting
+---     Zagor is now known as Zagor|meeting
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+---     Disconnected (Connection timed out).
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jun  4 12:02:36 2002
+
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+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun  4 23:37:03 2002
+
+-->     adiamas (~adiamas@216.194.26.223) has joined #rockbox
+---     Topic for #rockbox is Version 1.0 released! http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+---     Topic for #rockbox set by adi|home at Tue Jun  4 04:41:56
+<xtac[z]>       hm
+<xtac[z]>       the archos is a bit heavy
+<xtac[z]>       i need to find a light hd
+<xtac[z]>       bb tom
+<--     xtac[z] has quit ("i focus on the pain the only thing that's real")
+---     You are now known as adi|home
+---     dw|gone is now known as dwihno
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        morning fellas
+<dwihno>        Good morning!
+<dwihno>        And it's a wonderful morning indeed.
+<Bagder>        oh sure
+<dwihno>        Although my headphones haven't been fixed yet
+<adi|home>      morning
+<dwihno>        hellö hellö
+<adi|home>      Bagder.. my email is shot right now.. can't see commits... did you work on the m3u reader?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        it might even work a bit now
+<dwihno>        :O
+<Bagder>        I'm more or less waiting for Zagor/Linus to try this and/or comment it
+<Bagder>        or anyone else of course
+<adi|home>      hmm.. ill take a look
+<Bagder>        the read function should take larger peaces each time it does a read() of course...
+<adi|home>      pieces
+<adi|home>      not peaces
+<adi|home>      :)
+<Bagder>        oops
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<Bagder>        peace to everyone ;-)
+<adi|home>      except Al-Queda
+<adi|home>      they can burn...
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<adi|home>      them and their virgins
+*       adi|home gets down off his soapbox 
+<adi|home>      can i access the m3u reader from the uisim?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<adi|home>      home
+<Bagder>        name the file .m3u
+<Bagder>        browse to it and press play on it
+<adi|home>      k
+<Bagder>        I mean, it should have a .m3u extension
+<adi|home>      i get We instruct the MPEG thread to play Ani Difranco - Back Back Back.mp3 for us
+<adi|home>      correct?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        I haven't made the playlist do any shuffle or anything yet
+<adi|home>      k
+<Bagder>        it plays it from start to end
+<Bagder>        and then restarts again
+<adi|home>      k
+<Bagder>        however, not all that is possible to see in the simulator
+<adi|home>      heheh you and i have such diff code styles :)
+<adi|home>      fd = open()
+<adi|home>      if (-1 != fd)
+<adi|home>      hehe
+<adi|home>      id do: if ((fd = open()) < 0)
+<Bagder>        I never do the assignment inside the condition if I can move it outside without penalty
+<adi|home>      any particular reason?
+<Bagder>        for readability
+<adi|home>      ahh..
+<adi|home>      i wold agree with that..
+<Bagder>        the generated code will be exactly the same anyway
+<adi|home>      but in the same vein.. comparing against -1 specifically is a bad habit to me :)
+<Bagder>        perhaps
+<adi|home>      != 0 is failure in unix
+<Bagder>        not if open() is documented to return -1 on error ;-)
+<adi|home>      never know what functions return...
+<adi|home>      heheh true..
+<adi|home>      but what if it was to return -2 as well?
+<adi|home>      ;)
+<Bagder>        then it would be a silly check ;-)
+<adi|home>      hehehe
+<adi|home>      neither way is better.. just diff like i said ;)
+<Bagder>        yeah
+<adi|home>      besides.. i know when i become supreme overlord you will have to do it my way ...
+<adi|home>      im patient.. i can wait ;)
+<Bagder>        haha, you just let me know when you get your super powers and I'll fix my code then before you turn me into something unpleasant :-P
+<adi|home>      no worries.. id never turn you into a canadian ;)
+<adi|home>      the read/open/lseek
+*       Bagder sighs ffom relief
+<adi|home>      are they the ones we implimented
+<adi|home>      or part of the newlib?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        newlib is not needed anymore
+<Bagder>        not used
+<Hadaka>        well if this would be posix stuff - I'd definitely advice to test explictly against -1 and then do errno stuff after that
+<adi|home>      okay... that case, can read fail?
+<Bagder>        yes, read can fail
+<Bagder>        so yes, I should check for that
+<adi|home>      nods
+*       Bagder hides
+<Bagder>        we in fact set errno too, posix-fake-mode enabled ;-)
+<adi|home>      lol
+<adi|home>      would use of registers be of any use on the Archos?
+<adi|home>      just wondering if there is a faster way to run throught that while loop of yours..
+<Bagder>        modern gcc versions more or less ignore the register keyword
+<adi|home>      k
+<Bagder>        I/ew should read() larger chunks instead
+<Hadaka>        premature optimization is the root of all beer
+<Bagder>        I/we
+<Bagder>        reading single-bytes like that is plain silly
+<adi|home>      there is nothing wrong with premature optimization.. so long as you odn't go overboard
+<adi|home>      can you give me a rough idea of how we are managing the playlists?
+<adi|home>      i missed that convo
+<Bagder>        pretty simple:
+<Bagder>        we have the playlist on disk as a m3u file
+<Bagder>        we store only indexes to the file names in memory
+<Bagder>        that is, to the entry names within the m3u
+<dwihno>        The m3u is in the memory?
+<Bagder>        no
+<Bagder>        never
+<adi|home>      can i assume the index is the seek used by lseek
+<adi|home>      then you read in the filename?
+<Bagder>        exactly
+<adi|home>      i guess that makes sense.. you ahve to spin the drive up to read in the mp3 anyway.
+<Bagder>        yes
+<adi|home>      so doing it to get each index is no big deal.
+<Bagder>        we can even cache a few indexes before and after if we think that'll improve things
+<adi|home>      nods
+<Bagder>        so when we run "random"
+<Bagder>        we shuffle the arrat with all the seek-positions
+<Bagder>        array
+<adi|home>      makes sense
+<adi|home>      okay.. so we run from start to finish on the indices right?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<adi|home>      then having an int index that reps the "index of *NEXT* track to play' makes no sense
+<adi|home>      you only want to know the current file being played
+<adi|home>      don't you?
+<Bagder>        it doesn't really matter
+<adi|home>      i guess
+<Bagder>        I chose "next" just so that zero would make sense already when initing the struct
+<adi|home>      nod
+<Bagder>        the mpeg thread will id3-read the file and allow others to get that info
+<adi|home>      ?
+<Bagder>        thing is
+<Bagder>        we deliver the track to the mpeg thread long before we hear it
+<Bagder>        so we need the mpeg thread to tell the world which song that is actually playing right now
+<adi|home>      nod
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        morning Linus
+<Linus> morning!
+<adi|home>      hen you init the structure.. would you want to reset the seed for rand?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Hadaka>        oh btw - random and shuffle play in my mind are different things - and both are nice, depending on situation
+<adi|home>      are you editing that file at all? if not ill fix this stuff as i go
+<Bagder>        adi|home: I'm not, feel free to improve
+<adi|home>      ki
+<Bagder>        Linus: spotted my id3-fix?
+<Linus> Hadaka: you want "true" random in some cases? That is, same song may be played twice?
+<adi|home>      okay... what happens if we barf on playlist processing?
+<adi|home>      ie: file read fails
+<adi|home>      open fails
+<Linus> Bagder: havent't come to the Rockbox-CVS folder yet... :-)
+<Bagder>        adi|home: just return, do nothing
+<adi|home>      k
+<Bagder>        Linus: hehe :-)
+<adi|home>      i think we eventually want a message to the user no
+<adi|home>      ?
+<Hadaka>        Linus: yes - or at times ofcourse a simple limit of not ever picking the next song to be the same song as the one exactly before would be sufficient
+<Hadaka>        Linus: but for example when using mpg123 - I do use true random play for some stuff
+<Linus> what is mp123?
+<dwihno>        mpg123?
+<dwihno>        you don't know what it is? :)
+<dwihno>        alnmighty mp3 thingy
+<Linus> an mp3 player?
+<Hadaka>        Mpg123 is a fast and portable MPEG audio player for Unix.
+<Linus> Ah.
+<Hadaka>        very, very common
+<Linus> That must mean that I'm ver very unaware of things. :-)
+<adi|home>      Bagder: its your code.. so let me ask.. on checking the open... is if(fd >= 0) acceptable to you?
+<adi|home>      or rather i leave it -l != fd?
+-->     nayr (~ryan@ip68-2-171-8.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> hi nayr!
+<Hadaka>        most jukebox softwares on unix use that as a backend - also there's a free replacement for it, mpg321, which is compatible
+<nayr>  Hello!
+<adi|home>      hey nayr
+<adi|home>      do we have stat in our api now?
+<adi|home>      or maybe it just makes more sense to lseek to a files end to get its size?
+<Linus> The ID3 code seeks to the end
+<adi|home>      heheh okay "static unsigned int playlist_seed = 0xdeadcafe"
+<adi|home>      is just wrong
+<Linus> why do you need the file length?
+<adi|home>      right now we are reading in the m3u file a byte at a time
+<adi|home>      that makes no sense.
+<Linus> no it doesn't
+<Linus> ...and...
+<adi|home>      so get the file size
+<adi|home>      define a static buffer of say 100 bytes
+<adi|home>      and read in at a better increment.
+<adi|home>      so you kno when you hit the file end
+<adi|home>      your still not mallocing..
+<adi|home>      so life is okay
+<Linus> why do you need the file size for that?
+<adi|home>      i guess i could just keep lseeking?
+<Linus> you could just read until end-of-file
+<adi|home>      are we gaurenteed to have an end-of-file?
+<Linus> of course
+<Linus> otherwise you wouldn't be able to lseek(9 to find out the end-of-file...
+<adi|home>      right, thats what im saying...
+*       adi|home now that i have my head outta my ass
+<adi|home>      lets say char buf[100]
+<adi|home>      then we do successive lseeks of 100 till we fail
+<adi|home>      then we just grab the rest of the file when we fail
+<Linus> you don't need a buffer to do lseek()
+<adi|home>      i know that
+<adi|home>      but where are you putting the data from the m3u file?
+<Linus> Maybe I'm not understanding what you want to accomplish
+<adi|home>      read/parse an m3u file
+<adi|home>      to store in our playlist structure
+<Linus> So get the data, one row at a time (it's a text file, right?)
+<adi|home>      right
+<Linus> why seek()?
+<adi|home>      how do you know when a line ense?
+<adi|home>      ends?
+<adi|home>      you search for CRLF
+<Linus> CR/LF or just LF?
+<Linus> whatever
+<adi|home>      im just going by what we have right now
+<adi|home>      nods
+<adi|home>      so to do that you need to read from the file into a buffer
+<Linus> so read into a 100 byte buffer, and look for EOL's
+<adi|home>      thats what im saying :)
+<adi|home>      thus the char buf[100]
+<Linus> but I still don't understand the seek() part
+<adi|home>      are just going to read until read fails?
+<Linus> exactly
+<adi|home>      so how do you tell the dif between "we reached the end of file: failed" and "archos is fucked: failed"/
+<adi|home>      ?
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+<Linus> -1 means failure, 0 means end-of-file
+<Linus> still there?
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
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+<adi|home>      yeah.. just giant brain fart...
+<adi|home>      i see what your getting at
+<Linus> great
+<adi|home>      im not changing this now.. im bound to fsck it up.. to tired.. i ll hit it in the morning
+<adi|home>      night all
+<adi|home>      thanks for helping me pull my head from my ass Linus ;)
+-->     gd (~chatzilla@dns.agssmf.com) has joined #rockbox
+-->     PiotR (~piotr@212-170-21-172.uc.nombres.ttd.es) has joined #rockbox
+-->     PsycoXul (psyco@adsl-63-205-43-243.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+<Hadaka>        hmm, one should make a feature checklist of what the archos (recorder) can do - and what is implemented in rockbox
+<Linus> night, adi|home!
+<Hadaka>        how does the resume work on the original archos btw? does it save the current song/directory somewhere when it starts playing it or?
+<Linus> The Player saves that info on the hard drive
+<Linus> when it starts playing a song
+<nayr>  ?? I could never get resume to work anyway.
+<Linus> but not when the battery is too low
+<Linus> I guess it's a safety feature not to write on the hard disk when low on batteries
+<Linus> nayr: how come?
+<Hadaka>        ookkay
+<nayr>  Well, maybe I'm not understanding what it's supposed to do.  I was thinking it would resume a song where it left off between power cycles (ala iPod)
+<Linus> The recorder, OTOH saves that data in internal RAM
+<Linus> nayr: it only remembers which song it played
+<Linus> nayr: we will try to implement mid-song resume in Rockbox
+<nayr>  Hmmm... OK.  Well, I became overly excited when I heard about this project on /. 
+<nayr>  I figure there's a much better chance of getting the features I want by working with you folks than working with archos. :-)
+<Linus> nayr: nice. i hope you still feel that way.
+<Linus> nayr: are you a programmer?
+<Hadaka>        yeah, mid-song resume (and keeping of the current playlist) would be just dandy
+<nayr>  I used to pretend to be.  But if I can code at all, it's high-level stuff (RAD/UI, 4GL, etc.)  C/ASM really isn't my forte.  I can read it, but I can't code it :(
+<Linus> ok. you can still be very useful
+<nayr>  But I kick ass at QA, especially when I've got a personal stake in the project. =)
+<Linus> may god help us :-)
+<Linus> the QA department!
+<nayr>  Programmers tend to hate me pretty quickly. =)
+<Linus> :-)
+<nayr>  bedtime now.  I'm sure I'll be bouncing back in here again soon.  Thanks for all the work you folks have done so far, and I look forward to good things in the future!
+<--     nayr (~ryan@ip68-2-171-8.ph.ph.cox.net) has left #rockbox
+<--     Hadaka has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
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+-->     trillback (~trillian@sdn-ar-001ncraleP254.dialsprint.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     adi|work (~adiamas@pool-151-204-140-140.ny325.east.verizon.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     webmind (webmind@seal.student.utwente.nl) has joined #rockbox
+-->     datazone ([sm5Ow6WK8@207.136.36.203) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        Linus: anyway, the id3 code should be reentrant now
+<Linus> Bagder: great
+<Bagder>        and if you get time, I'd appreciate if you tried the playlist code on target
+<Bagder>        I realize time is a shortage here ;-)
+<Linus> So the MP3 thread should use the ID3 code to dig some info from the file it plays
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Linus> and pass it to the GUI somehow
+<Bagder>        and "export" that info
+<Bagder>        right
+<Linus> I'll try to find out a good way to report the current playing pos as well
+<Linus> I'll look into Lion's suggestion and see what I can do.
+<Bagder>        about using a timer?
+<Linus> I didn't follow the playlist discussion. Do we have a working version?
+<Bagder>        we do
+<Linus> Bagder: timer?
+<Bagder>        somewhat "naive" and simple still thugh
+<Bagder>        Linus: forget it, I didn't follow that talk so closely ;-)
+<Linus> AFAICS, there is no good way to determine the song length
+<Linus> does the ID3 tag contain such info?
+<Bagder>        no, not without scanning the whole file
+<Bagder>        VBR is hell
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|meeting
+<dwihno>        :/
+<dwihno>        VBR is evil stuff
+<Bagder>        I can't believe I work in a project without gdb on target, when even rockbox has it :-/
+<dwihno>        gdb?
+<dwihno>        <-- sucks, tell me what gdb is good for
+<Bagder>        debugger
+<Bagder>        you've not developed seriously when you say that
+<dwihno>        ah
+<dwihno>        I used the visual c debugger
+<Bagder>        right
+<dwihno>        How hard is gdb to learn?
+<Bagder>        gdb is much more powerful, if somewhat more crude interface
+<Bagder>        the basics are simple
+<Bagder>        using it from within emacs makes it even easier
+<dwihno>        You got some basic introduction stuff?
+<Bagder>        'b [symbol]' for breakpoints
+<Bagder>        'c' for continue
+<Bagder>        'run' to start
+<Bagder>        'n' for next
+<Bagder>        's' for step-in 
+<Bagder>        that's it ;-)
+<Bagder>        'p [variable]' display variable contents
+<Bagder>        'info locals' display all local variables
+<dwihno>        does it require some extra stuff compiled into the binary?
+<Bagder>        yes, it requires that it was compiled with -g for maximum use
+<dwihno>        mkay
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        hey Z
+<Zagor> hi
+<Bagder>        Zagor: I added some playlist code yday
+<Bagder>        not very fancy or anything, but it could work 
+<Zagor> ok, nice
+<Bagder>        it's still basic and slightly "naive"
+<Bagder>        but a start
+<Bagder>        Zagor: I made 'playing' hold a play "mode" instead of just a boolean
+<Bagder>        so that play-all-dir should still work too
+<Zagor> in tree.c you mean?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Zagor> ok
+<Bagder>        they're just digits now, but we should remake it into some enum or somthing
+<Zagor> yup
+<Zagor> 152 subscribers today
+<Bagder>        wow
+<--     Smari has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+*       ironi has returned, [gone/11h 49m 47s]
+<ironi> hello ppl
+<Zagor> hi ironi
+<Bagder>        hey ho
+<ironi> just came home
+<ironi> I'm thinking on working on my persolan homepage
+<ironi> It needs a facelift
+<Bagder>        time to go and get a visa ;-)
+---     Bagder is now known as Bagder|away
+<ironi> hehe
+<ironi> apt-get dist-upgrade is my favourite command ever
+<Zagor> yeah, debian rocks
+<ironi> it does.
+<Zagor> hehe, nice peak yesterday.
+<Zagor> 3rd june: 4700 accesses
+<Zagor> 4th june: 60196 accesses
+<Zagor> pages, not accesses
+<Zagor> 04:00-05:00 on the 4th: 25 pages
+<Zagor> 05:00-06:00 on the 4th: 3279 pages :)
+<ironi> has there been a post on slashdot?
+<ironi> =)
+<Zagor> quite so
+<dwihno>        Is there some way to make directories invisible using the archos firmware? I'd like to have a folder to store documents and stuff and I don't want it being displayed :)
+<Zagor> not that I know of
+<ironi> dwihno: well maybe hidden directories could be excluded in the archos
+<ironi> that is perhaps an easy solution
+<dwihno>        yeah
+<dwihno>        I'll test that later
+<dwihno>        I sold my last computer last night
+<dwihno>        So now I have ZERO computers
+<dwihno>        Zero, zip, nada!
+<ironi> heh
+<dwihno>        INGA!
+<ironi> when is the dell coming?
+<dwihno>        No jävla datorer! :)
+<dwihno>        I haven't ordered it yet
+<ironi> oh ok
+<dwihno>        I'm awaiting a faktura to be betalad by the evil customer
+<ironi> it doesn't take long for themto ship it though, i thiok.
+<ironi> you din't take cash, thats bad.
+<ironi> =)
+<dwihno>        Nah, it will probably take less than 1 week
+<dwihno>        Are there any good ways to install some really kickass boot loader?
+<dwihno>        I want to have Win98, Win2k and linux on the same box :)
+<Zagor> i'm sure the guys in #linuxhelp knows all about that. :)
+<ironi> dwihno: grub is nice
+<dwihno>        ironi: never tried it... :) 
+*       dwihno goes on a google streak
+<ironi> if you want windows gui easy-to-install-bla-bla-mumbo-jumbo there is powerquest bootmagic
+<dwihno>        Eww
+<ironi> grub is cool though because you can edit the options in the boot loader
+<ironi> at boot
+<dwihno>        That's what I like!
+<dwihno>        I like configurability
+<ironi> i tried when using gentoo
+<ironi> i really find it better than lilo for me
+<dwihno>        Hmm, how come?
+<ironi> i just like it more
+<dwihno>        Is it cute? :)
+<ironi> you dont edit a config file, you instead enter a grub console where you supply commands
+<ironi> you can enter this console at boot too
+<ironi> if you want
+<dwihno>        ah
+<dwihno>        Damn DNS server!
+<dwihno>        GIVE ME THE LOOKUP YOU EVIL DNS STUFF! :)
+<dwihno>        ah, now it works
+---     Disconnected (Connection timed out).
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun  5 06:14:13 2002
+
diff --git a/www/irc/rockbox-20020609.log b/www/irc/rockbox-20020609.log
new file mode 100644
index 0000000000..19dcd3a452
--- /dev/null
+++ b/www/irc/rockbox-20020609.log
@@ -0,0 +1,1772 @@
+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun  6 03:13:16 2002
+
+-->     adiamas (~adiamas@216.194.26.204) has joined #rockbox
+---     Topic for #rockbox is Version 1.0 released! http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+---     Topic for #rockbox set by adi|home at Tue Jun  4 04:41:56
+<Bagder>        howdy adiamas
+<adiamas>       howdy...
+<adiamas>       just had a major power outage here...
+<adiamas>       lasted near 2 hrs
+<adiamas>       all year we're find...
+<adiamas>       world cup comes on a POOF
+<adiamas>       damnit
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        must be a conspiracy somehow ;-)
+<adiamas>       damn right
+<adiamas>       i blame the canadians
+<Bagder>        I miss a tetris for recorder link on the web site
+<Bagder>        that lazy web master B-]
+<dwihno>        Linus: Will you take on the mission to write the decoder code for the recorder build?
+*       Bagder mutters when reading source code written on 160 col lines...
+<adiamas>       hehehe
+<adiamas>       who did that?
+<Bagder>        at work
+<Bagder>        silly windows users
+<adiamas>       hehehe
+<adiamas>       sorry ;)
+<adiamas>       i made a deal with a buddy at work...
+<adiamas>       he went to 80 cols
+<adiamas>       i went to 8 space tabs
+<Bagder>        oh, what a sacrifice
+<adiamas>       heheh
+<Bagder>        I just yell at them ;-)
+<Bagder>        and go my way 
+<adiamas>       we still bitch at each other ;)-
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<dwihno>        8 space tabs?!
+*       Bagder wonders why he has no friends left ;-)
+<dwihno>        Now that's insane
+<dwihno>        looks like somebody dropped a bomb in the source code!
+<Bagder>        source code should not have tabs, only space
+<dwihno>        They should have tabs
+*       Bagder casts a spell on dwihno, you windows... eh, windows... person
+<dwihno>        what's wrong with tabs?
+<Bagder>        people set different tab sizes
+<dwihno>        of course
+<Bagder>        they are 8 when you print
+<dwihno>        :set ts=8
+<Bagder>        it make outputs look crap
+<dwihno>        depends on what printing stuff you use
+<Bagder>        yes, if you're two people you can set requirements on that
+<Bagder>        in a development team with many people, you can't
+<dwihno>        :)
+<Bagder>        believe me, I seen it, done it, used it ;-)
+*       Bagder now has 11 years in the "business"
+<dwihno>        set ts=4
+<dwihno>        whoa
+<dwihno>        how old are you?
+<dwihno>        40?
+<Bagder>        31
+<dwihno>        scary
+<Bagder>        indeed
+<dwihno>        I will NEVER get old! :)
+<dwihno>        What kind of education do you possess?
+<Bagder>        the hard way, the school of life, spare time assembler and work ;-)
+<Bagder>        like Zagor and Linus, I have no formal education in this area
+<Bagder>        we're all home brewed
+<dwihno>        Are you pleased with your salary?
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|very
+<Bagder>        is anyone ever? ;-)
+<dwihno>        I was
+---     Linus|very is now known as Linus|busy
+<Bagder>        I am
+<dwihno>        Although a bitch coder with ZERO skills had more than me, and that bugged me.
+<Bagder>        that's not the case for me
+<dwihno>        coderess
+<Bagder>        although currently the market isn't exactly splendid
+<dwihno>        not really
+<Bagder>        it means less money when the customers renegotiates the rates
+<dwihno>        MONEY FOR ALL(TM)
+<--     Linus|busy has quit ("disconnecting from stoned server.")
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+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
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+-->     ironi (ironi@as2-5-7.j.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        hey ironi
+<dwihno>        damn
+<ironi> hi there
+<ironi> *yawn*
+*       dwihno just realized that writing sql queries sometimes is a pain in the /dev/arse
+<ironi> dwihno: why is that
+<dwihno>        I want to return multiple counts
+<dwihno>        in 1 query
+<dwihno>        +----+--------+----+-----------+
+<dwihno>        | id | name   | id | projectid |
+<dwihno>        +----+--------+----+-----------+
+<dwihno>        |  2 | Apan   |  1 |        39 |
+<dwihno>        |  2 | Apan   |  2 |        40 |
+<dwihno>        |  2 | Apan   |  3 |        41 |
+<dwihno>        |  3 | Assar  |  1 |        39 |
+<dwihno>        +----+--------+----+-----------+
+<dwihno>        I want to return the projectid count for every id [left one]
+<adiamas>       1. i don't know if postgres lets you
+<adiamas>       2. if you could, you prob do it in a sub query
+<adiamas>       ie: select count(id) from table where id in (select unique id from table)
+<adiamas>       or some such
+<adiamas>       but i dont' think you can do it..
+<adiamas>       i know in oracle we have to do a seperate count for each
+<ironi> you cnat do sub querys in postgres
+<ironi> ?
+<dwihno>        me is using mysql
+<ironi> ok
+<ironi> anyway
+<ironi> i dont unbderstand what you want
+<ironi> i dont gett the table
+<dwihno>        I have a table linking two tables together
+<dwihno>        to make multiple selection of objects available
+<ironi> ok sure
+<dwihno>        the link table has the userid and projectid
+<ironi> you have a like a projcet table , a member table, and a project_member table?
+<dwihno>        and for every user, I want to count the number of projects matching the user id, in a single query
+<ironi> saying which member is involved in which project
+<dwihno>        yup
+<ironi> but is the table you pasted the result you want, right?
+<dwihno>        nope
+<dwihno>        just some example stuff :)
+<ironi> eh,....
+<ironi> caue your project_user tablejust has project id and member id, right
+<dwihno>        yup
+<ironi> ok
+<ironi> well that is impossible with out a subquery
+<ironi> and in mysql you cant do them
+<dwihno>        darn!
+<ironi> well maybe you could do a join
+<dwihno>        I wanted to draw a cute progress bar :)
+<ironi> it was a while since i used sql
+<dwihno>        1 query per user would be a pain in the arse
+<ironi> yeah
+<dwihno>        but who gives a shit ;)
+<ironi> but...
+<ironi> cant you just do a loop?
+<dwihno>        1 query to get the ID's and then 1 query per userid
+<ironi> well eya
+<ironi> yea
+<ironi> loop trough the id's , getting the result for each
+<ironi> or can't you do your progress bar then?
+<dwihno>        Hehe
+<dwihno>        The progress bar makes the stuff so CUTE! :D
+<--     ironi has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
+-->     ironi (ironi@as2-5-7.j.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<dwihno>        Why did I ever start doing SQL stuff?!
+*       dwihno dumps the idea of progress bar ;)
+<ironi> dwihno: are you doing php with it ?
+<dwihno>        ironi: jees
+<dwihno>        Pee Höö Pee
+<ironi> but dwihno
+<ironi> cant you do select user.name, count(projectid) from user,user_project WHERE user.userid=poject.userid
+<ironi> or am i thinking wrong
+<ironi> ooops
+<ironi> select user.name, count(user_project.projectid) from user,user_project WHERE user.userid=user_project.userid
+<ironi> dwihno: how about that?
+<ironi> dwihno! wake up!
+*       Bagder offers ironi the microphone and turns up the volume of the loadspeakers
+<ironi> thank you
+<ironi> *harkel*
+<dwihno>        ironi: hellö hellö
+<ironi> dwihno: so?
+<dwihno>        What who how?
+<ironi> read the last query i wrote
+<dwihno>        *read*
+<ironi> cant you do it like that?
+<dwihno>        hey, that might work
+<ironi> im kinda embarrased i didnt come up with it immediately
+<dwihno>        Don't be! :)
+<dwihno>        You gave me the DELL tip! :D
+<ironi> ehm
+<ironi> i think you will have to group by
+<ironi> select user.name, count(user_project.projectid) from user,user_project WHERE user.userid=user_project.userid GROUP BY user.username
+<ironi> otherwise you weill get count for all rows on all rows
+<ironi> =)
+<ironi> ok i should be group by user.name if i used user.name inthe slect clause
+<ironi> but u know what i mean
+<dwihno>        Yeah
+<dwihno>        YOU GAVE ME THE DELL TIP! :D
+<ironi> so did this work?
+<dwihno>        I'm fiddling
+<dwihno>        Battery charged
+<dwihno>        I love my archos
+<dwihno>        I never realized I couldn't live without it before I actually got it!
+<ironi> my just shows charging...
+<Bagder>        dwihno: you tried tetris on it yet?
+<ironi> i dont use mine as much as i should
+<dwihno>        Bagder: No tetris for the recorder yet ;/
+<Bagder>        there is
+<Bagder>        wait
+<dwihno>        There is?
+*       Bagder scans for the URL
+<Bagder>        http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/tetris.ajz
+-->     jb1081 (~jb1081@lime.ircam.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        it doesn't spin down the HD though
+<dwihno>        hey, it worked
+<dwihno>        Bagder: how come?
+<Bagder>        the ATA code should do that
+<Bagder>        ... and it doesn't work on the recorder yet :-)
+<dwihno>        hehe
+<dwihno>        Then why are you IRC:ing?! :)
+<Bagder>        hm
+<Bagder>        I don't know ;-)
+<ironi> dwihno: you're welcome
+<ironi> after 10 credits of sql i should have given you the answer immediately
+<ironi> =
+<ironi> )
+*       ironi is gone, out in da sun [l/on p/on]
+<dwihno>        ironi: THE SUN WILL GET YOU KILLED! Get back here! :)
+<ironi> i have my ray-bans
+*       Bagder gets valgrind and ddives in
+<dwihno>        valgrind?
+<Bagder>        "Valgrind, an open-source memory debugger for x86-GNU/Linux"
+<Hadaka>        valgrind is nice
+<dwihno>        I will invent something too!
+<dwihno>        I know, a new X11 toolkit! ;D
+<Bagder>        valgrind is really nice
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Hadaka>        hey, have you guys looked into 'newlib'?
+<Linus> you mean the removal of it?
+<Hadaka>        hm, I'm quite out of things - removal?
+<dwihno>        What's newlib btw?
+<Hadaka>        nm, I'd better read the mailinglist archives before I ask stupid questions
+<Hadaka>        Newlib is a C library intended for use on embedded systems.
+<Linus> I thought you meant if we had gotten rid of our newlib dependencies yet
+<Linus> we use newlib today
+<Hadaka>        why do you want to get rid of it?
+<Linus> but only for a few functions
+<dwihno>        Hadaka: Ah, okay
+<Linus> because it is of no use to us other that for the header files
+<dwihno>        header files are evil! :)
+<Linus> :-)
+<Hadaka>        hm ok, I don't know enough to comment
+<dwihno>        #include <linus_secret_stuff.h>
+<dwihno>        That's all you need when doing embedded stuff! :)
+<Linus> We used newlib in the beginning when we didn't have much implemented
+<Linus> but now we have all that newlib has to offer internally
+<Linus> that gives us a smaller footprint
+*       dwihno counted project time today
+<Linus> and you don't need to compile newlib when you build the cross compiler
+<dwihno>        <-- is gonna afford a kickass DELL box! :D
+<Linus> dwihno: a laptop?
+<Hadaka>        same interface as newlib or your own?
+<dwihno>        yup :)
+<Linus> Hadaka: same. it's ISO standard
+<dwihno>        with geforce go card
+<Hadaka>        ok
+<dwihno>        So I can play cstrike
+<Linus> dwihno: have an URL?
+<dwihno>        http://www.euro.dell.com/countries/se/sve/dhs/products/model_inspn_inspn_2650.htm
+<Linus> dwihno: phew! that's a BEAST!
+<Linus> a bit heavy, though
+<dwihno>        The tip of the day: The bread "gräddad längtan" is yum with salad and stuff :)
+<Linus> and i would like better resolution that 1024X768
+<dwihno>        Linus: As long as it works ;D
+<dwihno>        I like 1024
+<dwihno>        So I'm gonna dual-boot with linux
+<dwihno>        Linus: You should get some lunch!
+<Hadaka>        I've been very happy since I uninstalled windows my laptops
+<dwihno>        Hadaka: I need Windows for Photoshop, Flash, Illustrator etc. :/
+<Hadaka>        I usually get several months uptime for my laptop
+<dwihno>        yum!
+<dwihno>        Now that's what I call a good lunch!
+<--     Bagder has quit ("disconnecting from stoned server.")
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+*       Bagder made his first customized valgrind supresses
+*       dwihno is back from the quake session
+-->     havardk (havardk@soraas.student.nlh.no) has joined #rockbox
+<dwihno>        havard kvålen?
+<havardk>       emm, yes?
+<dwihno>        Cool :)
+<webmind>       try icelandic
+<havardk>       dwihno : who are you, and why do you know my name? :)
+*       Bagder awaits the answer ;-)
+<Bagder>        havardk: tried rockbox?
+<havardk>       no, I haven't
+<havardk>       I don't have an Archos, although I've been thinking about getting one
+<Bagder>        hehe, ok
+<Bagder>        well I haven't *really* tried it either as I have a recorder and we don't do well on that yet
+<Bagder>        I've only seen it on Björn's player
+*       webmind waits untill is as equal or more features and les bugs then original firmware
+<webmind>       it has
+<Bagder>        that might take a while .-)
+*       dwihno waits until it show other than ata: -5 on the recorder ;)
+<webmind>       badi have patience
+<webmind>       er
+<webmind>       Bagder, 
+<webmind>       damn this keyboard
+<Bagder>        I'm a bit dissapointed no one tried my playlist code on target yet
+<Linus> I am about to.
+<Bagder>        oh
+<Bagder>        I better hide then ;-)
+<Linus> but i have *shrug* work to do...
+*       dwihno starts the drumroll
+<Bagder>        WORK?! aaaah
+<dwihno>        My hands are getting tired... Test the godforsaken playlist code :)
+<Bagder>        endurance you need
+<Linus> a world record you will beat, my young apprentice
+<dwihno>        Linus: Get back to work ;)
+<Linus> yes. master
+<dwihno>        Damn, it's hot outside!
+<dwihno>        Obey me, you will
+<Linus> :-)
+<Bagder>        rockbox is gaining rank quickly on sourceforge activity
+<--     trillback has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
+-->     edx (~not@pD9560764.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        hi edx
+<edx>   yo
+---     edx is now known as edx|class
+<edx|class>     :)
+<edx|class>     irony.. you got the css file of the internet site?
+<edx|class>     i think there's the defualt font set for linux... take like arial / sans ms for that..
+<edx|class>     hmm bagder.. any progress regarding ata?
+<edx|class>     gotta go
+<Bagder>        no progress yet
+<Linus> I'm beginning my Recorder serial mod now...keep your fingers crossed
+*       Bagder crosses everything he has
+<Linus> Strange...the Line In is already patched on my Recorder
+<Bagder>        uh!
+<Linus> two long wires across the entire CPU board
+<Linus> and connected to two capacitors
+<Linus> I'll just remove them and connect them to the serial port...
+<Linus> ...scalpel, nurse...
+*       dwihno hands Linus the crowbar
+<Hadaka>        ehh
+<dwihno>        Linus: patched?
+<dwihno>        Linus: In what way?
+-->     jedix (~liam@fwott1-1.cis.ec.gc.ca) has joined #rockbox
+<jedix> hey
+<dwihno>        hey ho
+<jedix> whats up?
+<Bagder>        we're busy crossing fingers for Linus
+<Bagder>        he has his fingers in his Archos as we speak ;-)
+<jedix> cool
+<jedix> I dunno how to handle this scrolling thing without this being OO or threads
+*       dwihno crosses his toes too
+<dwihno>        See? :)
+<dwihno>        ooo
+<dwihno>         O
+<dwihno>        hmm
+<dwihno>        :)
+<Bagder>        we have threads
+<jedix> see the problem is right now, it just does scrolling.. all the time, and nothing else
+<jedix> its in a while(true) loop... :/
+<Bagder>        yes, but it could be in its own thread
+<Bagder>        perhaps
+<jedix> yes, that would do it
+<Bagder>        there's a minor drawback with that: we don't have threads in the simulator (yet) ;-/
+<jedix> an other small problem is that it scrolls well past the screen(takes a while for it to come back)
+<Bagder>        how do you mean?
+<jedix> it scrolls to the left until you can;t see it.. but then it keeps going
+<Bagder>        so make it not do that ;-)
+<jedix> yeah, working on that :)
+<jedix> also, the text warps around the line on me..
+<jedix> where does that happen?
+<Bagder>        that's a flaw in the simulator
+<jedix> oh, ok
+<Bagder>        I'll have a look at it right now
+<Bagder>        that's lcd_puts() in a player, right?
+<jedix> yeah
+<jedix> brb, going to get breakfast
+<Bagder>        ok, I'll commit a fix
+<Bagder>        hm, bad fix
+<Bagder>        better
+<jedix> hehe
+<jedix> so, if I update my cvs.. will my changes be removed?
+<Bagder>        no
+<Bagder>        they'll be merged
+<jedix> k
+<jedix> i get a few errors
+<Bagder>        when updating?
+<jedix> building
+<Bagder>        show me
+<jedix> /home/liam/archos/build/tree.o: In function `peek_next_track':
+<jedix> /home/liam/archos/uisimulator/x11/../../apps/tree.c:213: undefined reference to `playlist_next'
+<jedix> /home/liam/archos/build/tree.o: In function `dirbrowse':
+<jedix> /home/liam/archos/uisimulator/x11/../../apps/tree.c:307: undefined reference to `play_list'
+<jedix> /home/liam/archos/build/play.o: In function `playtune':
+<jedix> /home/liam/archos/uisimulator/x11/../../apps/play.c:88: undefined reference to `mpeg_play'
+<--     edx|class has quit ("be home soon :)")
+<Bagder>        did you update the uisimulator tree too?
+<jedix> I updated everything
+<Bagder>        hm, do 'make clean' and 'make' again to be sure 
+<jedix> same thing
+<jedix> you don't get this?
+<Bagder>        nope, and neither do http://daniel.haxx.se/rockbox-auto/
+<jedix> cvs update -dP in the root dir..
+<Bagder>        where you checked out "." ?
+<jedix> yeah
+<jedix> yeah
+<jedix> sorry, wrong window
+<jedix> cvs update: move away uisimulator/x11/xmu.h; it is in the way
+<jedix> C uisimulator/x11/xmu.h
+<jedix> is that ok?
+<Bagder>        no
+<Bagder>        I mean, sure you can remove it, and it'll come back when you update
+<Bagder>        but it shouldn't say that in the first place
+<Bagder>        hm, are you running make in the uisimulator/x11 dir?
+<jedix> I did once.. but I just deleted that dir
+<Bagder>        the uisimulator/x11 ?
+<jedix> I got it now
+<jedix> i deleted the uisimulator dir
+<jedix> and it works
+<Bagder>        it works without that dir?
+<jedix> no I updated and got it again
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Bagder>        ok
+<Bagder>        fine
+<jedix> the text still wraps to the next line though
+<jedix> but I fixed my scroll problem :)
+<Bagder>        wraps one letter or completely?
+<jedix> completely
+<dwihno>        cool stuff :D
+---     dwihno is now known as dw|weekend
+<dw|weekend>    SWEDEN SHALL WIN! :D
+<jedix> I'm sure its thursday
+<dw|weekend>    Me too
+<dw|weekend>    I'm taking the day off
+<dw|weekend>    1) watch the game
+<dw|weekend>    2) go for a weekend trip
+<jedix> nice
+<Bagder>        jedix: regarding the wrapping, you either check out why in the lcd_puts() or I fix that when I code that shows this happen
+<jedix> k
+-->     dfg (~prv@209.166.235.91) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        I think I know why it happens
+<Bagder>        it's a define issue
+<jedix> after I print a line of text I try to clear the rectangle.. but it doesn;t work
+<Hadaka>        running mkfs.vfat on my archos right now
+<Hadaka>        would I need to specify the logical sector size by hand?
+<Bagder>        I don't know
+<Hadaka>        well I didn't, anyway
+<Hadaka>        though I did put -F 32 just in case
+<Bagder>        yes, you need that
+<Bagder>        if I recall correctly
+<Hadaka>        I wonder how long this will take
+<Hadaka>        ooh, finished
+<Hadaka>        hmm! where does this thing save the play mode?
+<Hadaka>        after mkfs.vfat, it still is in random play
+<Bagder>        it saved in an unused sector
+<Bagder>        +is
+<Hadaka>        unused sector outside the filesystem?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        one of the first ones
+<jedix> what is LCD_WIDTH measured in? is it the amount of chars that can be displayed on the screen?
+<Hadaka>        ok so if I stumbled around with fdisk, I could get it erased or something?
+<Bagder>        jedix: that is pixels, and is only available for bitmap LCDs
+<jedix> Bagder: how do I get the lenght on the other screen?
+<Bagder>        Hadaka: I'm not really sure, I'm mostly repeating things I've learned from the others right now
+<Bagder>        I dunno
+<Bagder>        maybe there's a define, maybe not ;-)
+<Hadaka>        yikes, cache writes are scary
+<Bagder>        Linus: what's the status?
+<Hadaka>        weird - I get 10Mb/sec transfer rates and then total lockups when it actually writes the stuff to the disk
+<Bagder>        uh :-(
+<Hadaka>        ooh I love preemptiple kernel patch
+<Hadaka>        load at 4 :)
+-->     edx (OKE60@pD9EAB709.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<edx>   hi
+<Bagder>        rehi
+<jedix> Hadaka = Linus?
+<jedix> hey edx
+<jedix> oh... nm
+<edx>   heh.. your function is working now?
+<Hadaka>        nno, I'm not linus :)
+<Linus> I am Linus
+<--     ironi has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<Linus> i have connected the serial port on the recorder
+<Linus> but the Tx isn't quite working
+<Linus> i might have to dust off the oscilloscope
+<edx>   that's for debugging?
+<Linus> yes
+<edx>   might that help with the ata problem?
+<Linus> of course
+<jedix> edx: sorta working
+<edx>   ah ok
+<edx>   *teatime* :)
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|verybusy
+<edx>   linux: to me it seems the memory area for the command is wrong (but i dont know much about that h/w business)
+---     edx is now known as edx|tea
+<Linus|verybusy>        edx|tea: not according to the schematics
+<Linus|verybusy>        Guys! Do we know if the clock frequency on the recorder is 12MHz as well?
+<Bagder>        I don't
+<Linus|verybusy>        The schematics say 11.05
+<Bagder>        oh
+<Linus|verybusy>        that means i have to recalculate the baud generator...
+<Bagder>        yeah
+<Bagder>        no wonder it doesn't work ;-)
+<Hadaka>        is the cpu in these running at full speed at all times - or is there some halt mechanism?
+<Bagder>        I believe there is some kind of sleep mode, but then we probably can't be playing mp3
+<Hadaka>        but while playing, the thing is running at full cpu?
+<Bagder>        yes
+---     edx|tea is now known as edx
+<edx>   hmm the frequenzy doesnt have anything to do with ata, does it?
+*       edx wants ata to work :)
+<Bagder>        but the frequency needs to be known for the serial port to work
+<Bagder>        without serial port, no gdb
+<edx>   yea.. serial port..
+<Bagder>        without gdb, no ata debugging
+<edx>   but ata .. hehe
+<--     elinenbe has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.7 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0/20020530]")
+<Hadaka>             6293838 100%   56.69kB/s    0:01:47
+<Hadaka>              968704 100%   12.75MB/s    0:00:00
+<Hadaka>        I wonder if all this fluctuation is caused by the preemptible kernel patch or the uhci stuff or the fact that I have debug output still on in usb-storage
+<jedix> that good or bad?
+<Hadaka>        well I dunno - I can tell when the transfer is finished that what was the total speed
+<Hadaka>        it's a tad bit annoying atleast not to see the real transfer speed since you only see files going into the cache - and then going out of the cache afterwards
+<--     Linus|verybusy (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Coug (~bandaarp@198.187.233.138) has joined #rockbox
+<Coug>  hey all
+<Coug>  hello?
+<edx>   hi
+<webmind>       hi
+<Coug>  ah finally
+<Coug>  are any of you developers in the rockbox project?
+<webmind>       some
+<Coug>  is there any ambition to add aac support to the firmware?
+<webmind>       aac?
+<webmind>       what's that?
+<Coug>  advanced audio something
+<webmind>       doubt it
+<Coug>  low bitrate - high quality
+<webmind>       cos mp3 decoding is done trhough hardware
+<webmind>       through
+<Coug>  ah
+<webmind>       decoding chip
+<Coug>  dang
+<Coug>  do you know, are there any dos drivers for the archos?
+<webmind>       so i think mp3/mpeg will be it
+<webmind>       doubt it
+-->     satino (~satino@0x50c4991f.adsl-fixed.tele.dk) has joined #rockbox
+<Coug>  is there a way to create recorder drivers for dos?
+<webmind>       if u can get usb to work in dos
+<Coug>  how can you do that?
+<webmind>       get drivers
+<webmind>       doubt they exist though
+<Coug>  lol
+<Coug>  you mean just straight usb drivers?
+<webmind>       well
+<Coug>  or archos recorder drivers?
+<webmind>       u need usb support no ?
+<Coug>  of course
+<webmind>       afaik archos uses usb.. so
+<webmind>       u need usb support in dos
+<Coug>  true
+<webmind>       and support for the usb harddrive controller
+<webmind>       isd200
+<Coug>  ok
+<Coug>  but you can use usb keyboards in dos
+<Coug>  so there has to be at least some level of usb support
+<webmind>       dunno bout that
+<satino>        can my archos jukebox work under linux?
+<Coug>  if you get linux drivers
+<satino>        is it easy to set up?
+<Coug>  webmind - my whole goal here is to turn the archos into a bootable harddrive
+<webmind>       satino, sure.. linux support is the current kernel
+<webmind>       Coug, ah.. i think u need bios support then
+<webmind>       Coug, dunno if there are any bios's that support booting from usb hd
+<Coug>  i was thinking about a boot disk (floppy) that allows you to then boot to the archos
+<webmind>       Coug, ah.. then try a linux boot disk :)
+<webmind>       that has drivers :)
+<Coug>  for the archos though?
+<miah>  to get the archos workign in linux, you need a kernel that supports SCSI, and USB ISD2000, you wont see the ISD2000 config option unless scsi is enabled though
+<satino>        webmind, well, do I need to compile a new kernel?
+<webmind>       satino, if u dont have support build in.. probably yes
+<webmind>       Coug, if u have your bootdisk with a kernel with acrhos support u just access it as a scsi harddrive.. and thus boot from it
+<Coug>  webmind - how will that work, because i want to boot windows xp
+<Coug>  could i close linux and then still boot?
+<Coug>  webmind - could you lead me through the general process (starting with the floppy) for a bootable archos?
+<webmind>       Coug, u wont be able to run xp from it
+<webmind>       not booting
+<Coug>  that is why i was thinking DOS
+<webmind>       wont work
+<webmind>       xp doesnt run from dos either
+<webmind>       u need to load the support for the archos at boot from a different medium
+<Coug>  could i then make a bootable cd?
+<webmind>       with linux u can put the kernel with the added support on a floppy disk
+<webmind>       can't do that with xp
+<webmind>       not with winxp
+<Coug>  techinically, why not?
+<webmind>       cos winxp needs write access
+<Coug>  why couldnt it then use the c:\ drive or the archos?
+<webmind>       and it's not reilly possible to determin the files that need to be writeable and put those on a ram disk
+<webmind>       Coug, it could.. but not for booting
+<webmind>       and it needs the system files for booting
+<Coug>  if the cd just enabled the usb and the driver support for the archos, could you allow the comp to see the archos for booting?
+<Coug>  like use the cd as a driver for the archos?
+<Coug>  kind of like Microsoft did with Windows 95 and the CD
+<Coug>  build in a "mini OS" that allows a program to run off of the CD
+<webmind>       Coug, yes.. but u cant do that with winxp
+<Coug>  or archos in this case?
+<Coug>  can you follow my line of reasoning for a sec?
+<Coug>  put in a floppy, or cd, and boot to dos
+<Coug>  load the archos drivers for dos that allow read/write access
+<Coug>  then start the boot process from the archos
+<Coug>  where would the files need to be written to during boot?
+<webmind>       Coug, xp doesnt support booting from dos...
+<Coug>  ah, how does it work?
+<webmind>       xp boots on its own
+<webmind>       starting from the NT system windows stopts using dos as underlying platform
+<Coug>  ok
+<webmind>       xp is followup from windows 200 which is windows nt
+<Coug>  so i could do that with 98, but not xp?
+<webmind>       windowsm 2000
+<webmind>       Coug, u might be able to do it with win98 yes
+<webmind>       if u can get dos drivers
+<webmind>       which u would probably have to make yourself
+<Coug>  that i may be able to do
+<Coug>  is there a way to trick xp into thinking that dos is not running?
+<webmind>       hehe
+<webmind>       not that simple
+<Coug>  or a way to initiate the boot process from dos?
+<webmind>       dunno.. but doubt it
+<Coug>  i figured it wouldnt be, but it was worth a shot
+<webmind>       u could run xp within linux though.. but then u would lose a lot of andvantages
+<webmind>       like support for 3d cards and stuff
+<Coug>  ya
+<Coug>  vmware?
+<webmind>       uhuh
+<webmind>       thereby.. remeber.. archos only can get 1mb/s
+<Coug>  i dont have a liscense for it
+<webmind>       which is quite slow
+<Coug>  ya
+<Coug>  no kidding
+<Coug>  so.... the trick is tricking the bios into thinking that the archos is a harddrive.....
+<Coug>  that doesnt sound easy
+<webmind>       u need usb harddrive support in the bios then
+<webmind>       ..
+<webmind>       and i haven't seen that before
+<webmind>       scsi, zip, ls120.. but no usb hd's
+<Coug>  then.... is there a way to start the xp boot process from a disk and load the archos driver very early, then refer it to the archos?
+<edx>   coug.. they are loaded very early..
+<edx>   i once had scandisc run over my archos at boot time
+<Coug>  hmmm...... so i could put some of the xp files on a cd then refer the other files to the x:\ or whatever drive?
+<Coug>  maybe?
+<webmind>       u could put some of the files on the archos yes
+<webmind>       proably the stuff like programs
+<webmind>       but XP still needs to find them
+<Coug>  but windows xp wont all fit on a CD will it?
+<webmind>       dont think so
+<webmind>       thereby i doubt it will boot from cd
+<webmind>       btw, why do u want to boot xp from archos ?
+<webmind>       i mean.. it will run terribly slow
+<Coug>  i am attending a college that wont allow me to use my archos because of security restrictions
+<Coug>  but they allow the download of programs
+<webmind>       lovely
+<Coug>  so i wanted to download things and put them on the archos
+<webmind>       so why boot xp from it ?
+<Coug>  and i LOVE xp
+<webmind>       well it's not helping u here
+<Coug>  and i HATE 98
+<Coug>  i know
+-->     nicknackpattywac (~first@nat-198-95-226-227.netapp.com) has joined #rockbox
+<webmind>       i can tell u linux would most likely work
+<Coug>  and my friend is a Mac fan *shudder* and he brags that he can put his firewire drive in and boot to it
+<webmind>       and if u want to keep full compatibility of the filesystem u could even put your filesystem in a file
+<webmind>       u'd just put the kernel on a floppy
+<Coug>  how would you boot that?
+<webmind>       u'd have look into some docs
+<Coug>  i dont know much at all about the boot process of OSes
+<Coug>  ok
+<webmind>       i'm no expert on the field
+<webmind>       but i know what can be done
+<Coug>  i dont know what *can* be done, but i am a programmer, so, if it can be thought of, it *can* be done
+<webmind>       easiest way would probably be making a different partition on the arcohs
+<Coug>  in one way or another
+<webmind>       archos
+<Coug>  hey.... thats a good idea, but can you do that and still have windows support?
+<webmind>       Coug, well for windows solution it sometimes CAN be done.. but not withouth braking laws
+<Coug>  do they not allow you to tweak certain things?
+<webmind>       edx, do u know if the archos has problems if there are unsupported partitions on the drive ?
+<webmind>       Coug, some things.. not most of the things..
+<webmind>       Coug,  i think u need detailed info on xp if u want to tweak the boot process
+<Coug>  do you know where i could get that?
+<Coug>  please dont say Microsoft KB
+<webmind>       i dont think there is a legal way
+<webmind>       unless MS is willing to provide the ingo
+<webmind>       info
+<webmind>       which i doubt
+<Coug>  i dont see why they wouldnt disclose how to boot xp from a cd......
+<Coug>  but it is Microsoft
+<webmind>       indeed..
+<webmind>       they disclose i lot they dont need to
+<webmind>       i=a
+<webmind>       but i'd say linux should do the trick
+<Coug>  ya
+<Coug>  but i dont know how to do crap with linux
+<webmind>       windows support of the archos wont be the problem i think
+<webmind>       but i dont know if the device itself as problems with unsupoorted partitions
+<webmind>       Coug, figure it out then :)
+<Coug>  lol
+<Coug>  i try
+<Coug>  but dont know any c or c++ so it gets difficult
+<webmind>       if u want to spent time in it.. it's not hard to learn
+<Coug>  and alot of my stuff is unsupported by my flavor of linux
+<webmind>       u'r a delphi coder?
+<Coug>  VB
+<Coug>  i have done a little delphi
+<webmind>       sorry.. i'd hardly call that a programmer
+<Coug>  and i have a good friend that is a delphi coder
+<Coug>  i do some java too
+<webmind>       delphi is something
+<Coug>  no... not jscript
+<webmind>       java is indeed coding
+<webmind>       but sorry.. visual basic is not
+<Coug>  i have worked with basic too
+<Coug>  why isnt vb coding?
+<webmind>       still
+<Coug>  too easy?
+<webmind>       cos it's not
+<webmind>       it;s just a toolkit
+<webmind>       doesn't have any real power
+<Coug>  i like to think that i do alot of my own stuff in vb and dont always use pre programmed stuff
+<webmind>       vb is preprogrammed
+<Coug>  infact, i wrote a program that calculates factorial numbers
+<webmind>       u can do that scripting...
+<Coug>  and i had to write the multiplication procedure from the ground up
+<Coug>  using integers instead of other types
+<Coug>  the numbers got too big
+<Coug>  the largest number i have calculated is 15000!....
+<Coug>  it was 56,140 digits long
+<webmind>       ..
+<Coug>  so..... i did have to do some programming there
+<Coug>  but otherwise, you a right
+<Coug>  vb is just a toolkit
+<Coug>  a = are
+*       webmind prfers perl or c
+<webmind>       prefers
+<Coug>  ya
+<Coug>  i would love to learn c or c++
+<webmind>       learn it then
+<webmind>       not that hard
+<webmind>       lot's of books about it
+<Coug>  i am taking a class next year in school over c++
+<Coug>  i'll probably wait until then
+<webmind>       and dont use vc++ or c# or anything
+<Coug>  lol
+<Coug>  why not vc++?
+<webmind>       cos it's to dependant
+<Coug>  oh
+<Coug>  ok
+<webmind>       i'd advice to first build general C/C++ knowledge
+<webmind>       instead of just learning to code some win apps
+<Coug>  will do
+<Coug>  of course
+<webmind>       that way u can choose for what platform u want to code.. or even code for all platforms
+<Coug>  ya
+<webmind>       which will make you far more flexible.. and as a bonus more interesting for the job market :)
+<Coug>  true
+<Coug>  so..... do you think that booting xp from cd/archos is a waste of time? or even feasable?
+<miah>  its a waste of time
+<webmind>       Coug, i dont think it's actually possible.. and if it is.. a waste of time
+<Coug>  ah
+<Coug>  ok
+<webmind>       especially since if it will run.. it will run as slow as hell
+<Coug>  how could i boot linux then?
+<Coug>  and have archos support?
+<miah>  install linux
+<webmind>       get a linux boot disk with archos support
+<miah>  build kernel with archos support
+<miah>  and you're set
+<webmind>       use your archos as root device
+<webmind>       done
+<Coug>  miah - i cant install anything to the harddrive of the computer
+<miah>  why?
+<Coug>  its not my computer
+<webmind>       miah, school machine
+<miah>  ah
+<miah>  buy a computer?
+<webmind>       Coug, fix it on your won machine
+<miah>  they're what $200 now?
+<webmind>       own
+<miah>  if you can afford a archos, you can certainly afford a computer
+<Coug>  nah nah, its not that, i dont have high speed internet at home
+<webmind>       Coug, install linux then on your archos
+<Coug>  and i cant hook my archos at school
+<Coug>  (security)
+<Coug>  webmind - ok
+<webmind>       Coug, it's doable.. but it is some work...
+<webmind>       but way more doable then with xp
+<Coug>  will mandrake 8.1 work with the archos easily?
+<Coug>  ok
+<webmind>       Coug, i'd advice debian
+<webmind>       Coug, takes less
+<Coug>  ok
+<Coug>  where can i get that and how big is the dl?
+<Coug>  and is there built-in archos support?
+<webmind>       u can have a minimal graphical installation for under 300mb
+<Coug>  one thing though is that i want X and i would like KDE but KDE isnt nessecary
+<webmind>       Coug, dunno if the archos support is on the installdisk.. but otherwise u need a custom installdisk
+<webmind>       Coug, i think u want something light... since it's a damn slow device.. so i wouldn't go further then a light gnome installation
+<Coug>  how about network config?
+<Coug>  easy?
+<webmind>       Coug, but windowmaker, blackbox or icewm would be more doable i think
+<webmind>       Coug, u can use dhcp
+<webmind>       asuming the network has that
+<Coug>  if it matters, it is a novell network
+<Hadaka>        err um, how does one boot from an usb connected archos device?
+<webmind>       Hadaka, bootdisk
+<webmind>       floppy
+<Coug>  but doesnt require authentication, proved using the mac boot drive
+<Coug>  boot = bootable
+<Hadaka>        bootdisk with the kernel and stuff?
+<Coug>  ya
+<webmind>       Hadaka, uhuh
+<Hadaka>        hrm, nasty
+<webmind>       Hadaka, just the kernel and maybe lilo
+<webmind>       easy as pie
+<Coug>  why need lilo?
+<Coug>  cant i just set it to boot to the archos no matter what?
+<webmind>       Coug, could help with defining rootdevice.. not sure though
+<Coug>  the only time i would use the disk is when the archos is being used
+<Coug>  ok
+<Hadaka>        grub and a kernel would be good enough I guess
+<Coug>  that makes sense
+<webmind>       Coug, don't know detail;s about making bootdisks.. but i think u should be able to tell the kernel that archos is rootdevice
+<Coug>  ok
+<Coug>  but what about the drivers?
+<Hadaka>        you need scsi support, usb support (correct uhci/ohci support) and usb-storage support compiled into the kernel
+<webmind>       Coug, only real problem would be that i dont know how the archos reacts on unsupported partitions
+<Coug>  will the kernel automatically recognize the archos?
+<Coug>  ah, that is the thing
+<Coug>  yes.....
+<Hadaka>        then your root device would just be /dev/sda1 - or /dev/scsi/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part1 with devfs :)
+<Coug>  lets say that i partitioned my archos with linux included, if it didnt work, would there be any way to get it back?
+<Hadaka>        but if you are using grub (or even lilo) as the boot loader - you can tell the name of the root device while booting if that isn't correct (a machine has other scsi drives=
+<Hadaka>        yes
+<Hadaka>        the usb connection always works
+<Coug>  how?
+<Hadaka>        regardless
+<Hadaka>        loads from the flash-rom firmware, gives direct access to the disk - then you can reformat it normally again if it doesn't work
+<Coug>  would windows recognize the archos as a regular archos drive then, and i would just repartition and format?
+<Hadaka>        well I don't know what windows does with drives like that - but a windows fdisk or similar should be able to repartition it back the way it was
+<Hadaka>        but as long as there is a FAT partition first in the drive, I'm guessing that it will work just fine
+<Coug>  ok
+<Coug>  webmind - i found a 36 meg debian install
+<Coug>  how does that work?
+<Hadaka>        that's the netinstall image
+<Coug>  meaning.....?
+<edx>   itll download files later...
+<Hadaka>        it's able to install the kernel and the base system - and everything else is downloaded from the net
+<edx>   after you chose packages.
+<Hadaka>        ...actually the images on that disk are able to install the kernel and the base system from the net as well
+<Coug>  would i need to download anything from the net to get it to work?
+<edx>   depends on what you wanna do :)
+<Hadaka>        well yes - you just get the base system with that - it doesn't have a lot of anything
+<Coug>  does it have a web browser?
+---     edx is now known as edx|eatz
+<Hadaka>        don't think so
+<Hadaka>        nor X
+<Coug>  dang
+<edx|eatz>      no.. not even graphic user interface 
+<Hadaka>        it's just a base image
+<Hadaka>        the bare bones that will let the system boot
+<Hadaka>        and install more packages
+<Coug>  dang
+<Hadaka>        what's so dang about it?
+<Hadaka>        it's the best way to install - everything else requires you to download more
+<Coug>  but i dont have fast internet at home
+<Coug>  26,400 kbps
+<edx|eatz>      :/
+<Coug>  ya
+<Coug>  well....
+<Hadaka>        well then you would probably want the full iso images
+<Coug>  i gotta get going now, thanks for all the help
+<edx|eatz>      cu
+<Coug>  i should be back on later todat
+<Coug>  today*
+<--     Coug has quit ()
+<jedix> ..
+<jedix> anyone around?
+---     edx|eatz is now known as edx
+<edx>   i am
+<jedix> cool
+<jedix> do you know about threads with this device?
+<edx>   ouhm... not much
+<jedix> oh, ok.  my code works ok, but it really needs to be in a thread
+<edx>   hm... create_thread is the function
+<jedix> that way it can be told to sleep..
+<edx>   int create_thread(void* fp, void* sp, int stk_size);
+<jedix> how are they handled?
+<edx>   hmm dont know to tell the truth :)
+<jedix> ah well
+<jedix> what else besides scrolling text needs to be done then?
+<edx>   hmm dont know either lol
+<jedix> do you want to see the scrolling text?
+<edx>   ata for recorder needs to be working
+<edx>   why no :)
+<edx>   *why not
+<edx>   lol
+<edx>   ie. i want to see it
+<jedix> ..how about something i can work on..?
+<jedix> k
+<edx>   is it in cvs?
+<jedix> I don't think I can dcc it..
+<edx>   mail it.
+<jedix> i don't think I can check things in
+<edx>   edx@codeforce.d2g.com
+<edx>   mail the source.. ill compile for the simulator then
+<jedix> k, its off
+<edx>   ok
+<jedix> tree.c is only edited so that my function is used
+<edx>   where do you come from btw...
+<jedix> ?
+<jedix> what do you mean
+<edx>   what country
+<edx>   i am German
+<jedix> canada
+<edx>   ah.. cool
+<jedix> i'm at "work" right now..
+<edx>   (just got your mail)
+<jedix> government for ya..
+<jedix> what do you thing
+<edx>   hmm get compiler errors... /fixing at  the moment
+<jedix> what are they?
+<edx>   like playlist_next undefined.. :/
+<edx>   uisw32 error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _usleep referenced in function _lcd_textscroll
+<edx>   where is usleep ;)
+<edx>   got it
+<jedix> that should be ok
+<edx>   oh well.. not really.. :(
+<jedix> ?
+<edx>   is that some linux function?
+<jedix> maybe
+<jedix> you could try sleep(1)
+<edx>   usleep(80000);
+<edx>   ugh.. 
+<edx>   how many msecs are that?
+<jedix> .8 sec
+<edx>   when should it be scrolling?
+<jedix> ...
+<jedix> did you replace the other file too?
+<jedix> in apps/ tree.c?
+<jedix> thats the only file that calls it right now
+<edx>   yea.. when is it called?
+<jedix> and it will run forever.. so don't overwrite
+<jedix> its only called if you have a recorder I think
+<edx>   a player.. you mean?
+<jedix> do you get BROWSE ~~~
+<edx>   it is not defined for the recorder lol
+<jedix> instead of Browse
+<jedix> get it to be called and it will scroll
+<jedix> edx: what are you working on?
+<edx>   win32 simulator
+<edx>   hmm somehow the cvs is fucked up..
+<edx>   like stuff wont compile anymore
+<edx>   ok.. compile for recorder, right?
+<jedix> yeah
+<edx>       lcd_textscroll(0,0,0, "[BROWSE ~~~~browse browse window size]");
+<edx>   uhm
+<edx>   c:\Programming\CVS Checkout\RockBox\apps\tree.c(135): warning C4013: 'lcd_textscroll' undefined; assuming extern returning int
+<edx>   ah.. its outside the simulator define
+<jedix> .. it is defined
+<webmind>       question: does the archos mind if i have multiple partitions on it ?
+<edx>   hmmm
+<edx>   good question
+<edx>   try!
+<edx>   jedix.. got it to work finally
+<edx>   it is some kind of strange:
+<edx>   the lcd_putsxy function causes it to break the line if text gets longer than it would fit to the display
+<edx>   do you experience the same?
+<jedix> yes
+<edx>   ok
+<jedix> but it still scrolls
+<edx>   yup.
+<edx>   nice.
+<jedix> well, sorta
+<jedix> it doesn't work because it needs to be in a thread
+<jedix> what did you change to get it to work?
+<edx>   yea.. anyways scrolling works
+<edx>   hmmm
+<edx>   you need your own puts function actually..
+<edx>   that is without automatic linebreaks..
+<edx>   or you cut off the string after a few chars so it needs no line break
+<jedix> could Iwrite it based on putsxy?
+<edx>   .. yea certainly..
+<jedix>     /* We make the simulator truncate the string if it reaches the right edge,
+<jedix>        as otherwise it'll wrap. The real target doesn't wrap. *
+<edx>   where is that from?
+<jedix> lcd.c
+<edx>   .. found it
+<edx>   strange..
+<edx>   that's crap
+<edx>   simulator doesnt wrap either
+<jedix> i don't know what that means
+<edx>   hmm like the simulator cuts off the string (but it doesnt)
+<edx>   i think thats for the player..
+<edx>   ahh
+<edx>   yea thats the player code
+<edx>   theres another function for the recurder somewhere
+<edx>   hmm i gotta go...
+<edx>   later.
+<--     edx has quit ()
+-->     ironi (ironi@as2-5-7.j.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<ironi> hello
+<ironi> http://webon.prodat.no/wsp/aasentunet/webon.wsp?func=list&table=CONTENT&func_id=20020606&template=content
+<ironi> have you seent hat?
+<ironi> that
+<jedix> what is it?
+<jedix> oh yeah
+<jedix> that was /.ed
+<ironi>  /.ed?
+<jedix> slashdotted
+<ironi> oh ok
+<--     jedix has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+<--     ironi has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     prv_ (~prv@209.166.235.91) has joined #rockbox
+<--     dfg has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+-->     PiotR (~piotr@212-170-21-172.uc.nombres.ttd.es) has joined #rockbox
+-->     trillback (~trillian@sdn-ar-002ncraleP028.dialsprint.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     prv_ has quit ("Client Exiting")
+<--     PiotR has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+-->     PiotR (~piotr@212-170-21-172.uc.nombres.ttd.es) has joined #rockbox
+<--     nicknackpattywac has quit ()
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+*       Bagder appears
+*       adiamas faints
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        morning Linus
+<Linus> morn
+<Linus> 0x09000ade in ?? ()
+<Linus> (gdb)
+<Linus> NINJA!
+<Bagder>        *rockers*
+<Bagder>        so it was 11 something MHz?
+<Linus> yep
+<Linus> and i had to wire it correctly...strange :-)
+*       Linus gets some coffee
+---     Bagder is now known as Bagder|busy
+<Linus> My first finding when debugging the Recorder target code:
+<Linus> it is not very wise to try to load a BMP file from disk *before* the kernel and ATA is initialized
+<webmind>       lol
+<Linus> The Recorder ATA is now WORKING!!!
+---     Bagder|busy is now known as Bagder
+<Bagder>        you rock hard Linus
+<Linus> i am a hard rocker, you know... :-)
+<Bagder>        lots of long hair ;-)
+<Linus> :-)
+<Linus> what do we do about the logo?
+<Bagder>        uh?
+<Bagder>        what about it?
+<Linus> My first finding when debugging the Recorder target code:
+<Linus> it is not very wise to try to load a BMP file from disk *before* the kernel and ATA is initialized
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Bagder>        well, either move that code or just comment it out
+<Linus> it will show pretty late if we show it after the ATA init
+<Bagder>        we have the logo internally anyway
+<Bagder>        the real one
+<Linus> so why does it load from disk
+<Bagder>        in case you want a different one
+<Linus> IC
+<Linus> my lCD doesn't work
+<Bagder>        not at all?
+<Linus> or rather, the rockbox code doesn't work
+<Linus> blank
+<Bagder>        you didn't even get the ATA: -5 text before?
+<Linus> nope
+<Bagder>        weird
+<Linus> sort of
+<Bagder>        since the tetris has been proved working for some people
+<Linus> BTW the Recorder schematics is wrong regarding ATA address encoding
+<Bagder>        it indicates differences
+<Linus> oh no.....
+<adiamas>       if either of you has a binary of the recorder mod ill toss it on mine and see hat i get...
+<adiamas>       i haven't built my cross compiler yet
+<Bagder>        I don't think Linus has comitted code yet for me to build a working version
+<Linus> oh yes
+<Linus> just comment out the logo stuff
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> hey all
+<Bagder>        we should fix the "logo stuff" properly
+<Bagder>        hey Z
+<Bagder>        Linus did it again
+<Zagor> did what?
+<Linus> Zagor: are you alive?
+<Linus> i fixed the ATA bug
+<Zagor> oooh, nice!
+<Zagor> what was it?
+<Linus> i have debug-enabled my recorder
+<Linus> the schematics were wrong
+<Linus> the address decoder wasn't changed as the schematics showed
+<Zagor> aha
+<Linus> so the status register address was wrong
+<Zagor> coolio, so now we can browse dirs on the recorder?
+<Linus> that took 20 seconds to find out...
+<Linus> well no.
+<Linus> my LCD shows nothing
+<Zagor> ??
+<Zagor> empty? no display at all?
+<Linus> no
+<Zagor> hmm, just like what I get with the tetris mod
+<Zagor> have you tried uncommenting the logo display?
+*       Linus is debugging in 200MPH
+<Bagder>        Zagor: he had to
+<Linus> Zagor: that one is a good one
+<Linus> it tries to load a BMP from disk before the ATA init
+<Linus> even before the kernel init
+<Zagor> duh!
+<Linus> :-)
+<Linus> FREEEEEEZE
+<Bagder>        we need to move that
+<Zagor> yeah, obviously :)
+<Zagor> interestingly, elinenbe said he got Tetris running
+<Bagder>        can we all say "LCD differences" together? ;-/
+<adiamas>       Linus.. is your display jus shot.. or is it the code that won't work?
+<Bagder>        the code
+<Linus> adiamas: the LCD works
+<Zagor> Bagder: yeah, but how come he survived the ATA cock-up?
+<adiamas>       okay :)
+<Linus> maybe he tried it before the logo code added file-based logos?
+<Bagder>        Zagor: didn't you comment out that stuff for the tetris mod?
+<Zagor> no
+<Linus> did he see a logo?
+<Zagor> i don't know
+<Zagor> we have to ask him
+<Bagder>        well, we know people have see "ata: -4" and "ata: -5" 
+<Bagder>        seen
+<Zagor> yes
+<Linus> the LCD code works
+<Linus> it's just that the contrast is wrong
+<Zagor> bwaha!
+<Linus> so the display is very hard to see
+<Zagor> gdb rocks
+<Linus> very much
+<Zagor> so when are you fixing mine? :)
+*       Bagder cheers, the bug of the week is soon history
+<Linus> the ATA bug *is* history
+<Bagder>        yah, but I was referring to my own bug of the week ;-)
+<Linus> ah, that one...
+<Bagder>        been hunting it for many days
+<Hadaka>        Ooo mama, soon it's rockbox time for my archos as well
+<Bagder>        Linus: this calls for a grand posting to the list, you know that don't you? ;-)
+<Zagor> Linus: will you commit an lcd change, too? so I can rerelease tetris :)
+<Bagder>        we must move the BMP loading
+<Zagor> yes
+<Zagor> the question is, should we first display the rockbox logo and then replace it, or don't display anything until we have mounted the disk? the latter option means it'll take a while longer until anything appears
+<Bagder>        use the internal
+<Bagder>        imho
+<Zagor> yes, i'm leaning towards that too
+<Bagder>        btw, I modified the auto-page to use UTC times and it is ready to get included on the site
+<Zagor> ah, will fix
+<Linus> I'm curious about the LCD contrast setting in the init
+<Linus> it gets totally dark on my LCD
+<Linus> but obviously hasn't on other LCD's
+<Linus> and if we follow the Solomon data sheets, the contrast setting is an iterative process
+<Zagor> totally dark? i get totally blank
+<Linus> we have to repeat the command until the status register says that the command is done
+<Linus> and we don't even have a status read function
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        so this works by pure coincidence for some ppl then
+<Linus> I changed the setting from 0x30 to 0x20 (which is the power on default)
+<Linus> then ir looked ok
+<Linus> the dir browser pops up, but the buttons don't work
+<Linus> did anyone actually play tetris on it?
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs07v-8-64.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> alan!
+<alkorr>        hi
+<Linus> the ATA works on the recorder now
+<Bagder>        Linus: yes, elenbee said he played
+<Zagor> Linus: elinenbe said he did
+<alkorr>        it's weird
+<Linus> weird?
+<Zagor> he even complained about the lack of key repeat
+<alkorr>        i see you you change 620020306 in 6200206
+<Linus> yes
+<Linus> the schematics seem to be wrong
+<Zagor> brb
+<--     Zagor has quit ("Client Exiting")
+<alkorr>        now it seems ATA works, anything working on Recorder ?
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        I wanna know that too ;-)
+<Zagor> buh. that's what I get for using windows machines :(
+<Bagder>        Linus: can you browse dirs and stuff on the recorder now?
+<Linus> no. the buttons don't work
+<Bagder>        !
+<Zagor> i wonder what recorder model elinenbe is using
+<Bagder>        yeah
+---     Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
+<alkorr>        see you
+<Bagder>        see ya lan
+<Bagder>        alan
+<--     alkorr has quit ()
+<Linus> has anyone changed the debounce algorithm lately?
+*       Bagder hasn't
+<Bagder>        check with cvs ;-)
+<Linus> it polls every 10th tick, that is every 100ms
+<Linus> then it requires that the button is pressed at least 200 polls
+<Linus> that is 20 seconds!!!
+<Linus> haw lame!
+<Zagor|lunch>   uh, no linus. it requires 3 polls.
+---     Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor
+<Zagor> oh, ah the recorder has special. sorry.
+<Zagor> that's left-over debounce that should just be removed
+-->     zeffert (swolen@CPE-61-9-136-136.vic.bigpond.net.au) has joined #rockbox
+<zeffert>       you are all disgusting child molesters
+<Bagder>        we are?
+<zeffert>       ya
+<Zagor> oh no! *worried look*
+---     ChanServ gives channel operator status to Bagder
+<zeffert>       i wish you were dead!
+<Zagor> bye
+<zeffert>       burn!!!!!!
+<Bagder>        we are
+<zeffert>       burn!!!!!!!!!!
+---     Bagder sets ban on *!*@*.vic.bigpond.net.au
+<--     Bagder has kicked zeffert from #rockbox (Bagder)
+<Zagor> that was fun!
+<Bagder>        ban number 2
+<Zagor> really? i missed the first
+<Bagder>        getting busy ;-)
+<Bagder>        you did?
+<Bagder>        fun fellow you didn't stop talking spanish in all caps ;-)
+<Zagor> haha
+<Bagder>        s/you/who
+---     Bagder gives channel operator status to Zagor
+---     Bagder gives channel operator status to Linus
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs07v-8-64.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<alkorr>        re !
+<alkorr>        woauh three masters now ! :)
+---     Bagder gives channel operator status to alkorr
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<alkorr>        arf I'm the first displayed :)===)
+*       Bagder goes to fetch coffee
+<Bagder>        damnit, no one breaks the builds anymore ;-)
+<Zagor> i'm working on it, just give me a minute or two
+<Zagor> :)
+<Bagder>        good! :-P
+<Zagor> build status is now included in the daily build page
+<Zagor> maybe we should make it narrower somehow. shorter column titles, perhaps
+<Bagder>        any suggestions how?
+<Bagder>        uh, the showlog.cgi doesn't exist ;-)
+<Zagor> oh, missed that one
+<Zagor> now
+<Bagder>        goodie
+<Bagder>        spell out that the date/time is UTC/GMT time
+<Zagor> well, which is it? ;)
+<Bagder>        UTC is the name formerly known as GMT 
+<Zagor> really? I thought they differed in DST handling
+<Bagder>        but I guess most people know GMT better
+<Bagder>        I don't think so
+<Bagder>        btw, how come the order of the daily builds is so strange?
+<Zagor> oh, I need to sort them
+<Bagder>        ah, hehe
+<Bagder>        is that "my" index.html that shows up?
+<Zagor> yup
+<Bagder>        goodie, so I can work on fixing the titles like that
+<Zagor> i'm doing a symbolic link, since SSI can't handle absolute paths or hostnames
+<Bagder>        ok
+<Linus> Finally, lunchtime!
+<Bagder>        late lunch today
+<Linus> indeed. long meetings
+<Zagor> hehe, linus is trapped in Meeting Hell
+<Bagder>        poor guy
+<Linus> Zagor: if you only knew what we were discussing... :-)
+<Zagor> I have a nice poster here: "Don't Like Working? Prefer Talking About It Instead of Doing It? Schedule A Meeting!"
+<Zagor> "The Easy Alternative To Work"
+<Linus> Well, time for lunch!
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|lunch
+<Bagder>        narrower look 
+<Bagder>        more cryptic titles
+<Zagor> yeah, i'll have to add some description
+<Zagor> how about Play, P-old, Rec along with Norm, Debg, Sim
+<Linus|lunch>   The button debouncing code requires that the button is pressed for 20 seconds!!! :-)
+<Zagor> Linus|lunch: i just fixed it
+<Linus|lunch>   good
+<Zagor> i.e. removed it
+<Bagder>        I'll try that
+<Bagder>        wider but makes more sensre
+<alkorr>        MAS for recorder is still missing ?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Zagor> yes, linus is on the case I believe
+<Linus|lunch>   i'm on it
+<Bagder>        Linus is the MAS king
+*       Bagder bows
+<Linus|lunch>   yes, yes, yes. I *am* going to lunch
+<Linus|lunch>   i'm waiting for the printer (MAS data sheet)
+<Zagor> go, already!
+<Bagder>        now go so we can speak about you ;-)
+<alkorr>        hehe
+<Zagor> Bagder: hmm, why are the columns so wide? i can't see why they are any wider than the text they contain.
+<Zagor> "play norm" for instance, is much wider than the title
+<Bagder>        I don't know
+<Zagor> try adding "cellpadding=0" to the table tag
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        that's it
+<Bagder>        no
+<Zagor> ah, try adding <br> to the titles, to force line breaks. i think that's the thing
+<Hadaka>        ew, how about using css and xhtml strict instead of all that?
+<Bagder>        wow
+<Bagder>        tiny boxes now
+<Bagder>        Hadaka: in what way would that help us here and now?
+<Zagor> Hadaka: yeah but some things (like this) are implementation defined
+<Hadaka>        well all those cellpadding=0 and br stuff usually can be handled a lot better by clean page design and the stylesheets
+<Zagor> Bagder: keep th for headers, IMO
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        how many lines should I have maximum in the table? 20 fine?
+<Zagor> Hadaka: look at the page. it *is* clean. the fact that browsers maximise cell width even when they wrapped the contents is not defined in CSS nor XHTML
+<alkorr>        which page, Zagor ?
+<Zagor> alkorr: the daily builds page
+<Bagder>        at the bottom
+<alkorr>        oh well all seems to be okay :)
+<Zagor> Bagder: you should be able to kill the cellpadding now, it shouldn't matter much
+<Bagder>        in a second
+<Zagor> Hadaka: sorry to sound harsh. I do agree with you in general. :)
+<Hadaka>        err, why not just have a stylesheet for the table - and say that the widht of the cell is say about 3em and height is about 1em - then they are all the same width and it's correct for the font
+<alkorr>        maybe you could enlarge twice your table, Zagor ?
+<Zagor> Hadaka: because the content will not always be "OK", so then it will break. we want the dynamics too.
+<Zagor> Hadaka: or am I misunderstanding something?
+<Hadaka>        why do you want the sizes of the cells changing? I'd guess it would be easier to read if all the widths were the same?
+<Zagor> Bagder: fix us an error, so we can see how that looks
+<Bagder>        uh
+<Bagder>        that's not that easy to fake in
+<Zagor> ok
+<Bagder>        commit a bad file now
+<Bagder>        it'll go break in... 7 minutes
+<alkorr>        well if you enlarge the width of the table, you can use larger titles, you can or there is reason no to do so ?
+<Zagor> what are you printing, in that case? "Failure" or something else
+<Bagder>        Zagor: yes
+<alkorr>        FAILED
+<Hadaka>        FAIL is what I usually see
+<alkorr>        or KO :)
+<Bagder>        "Failed" is the word I use
+<alkorr>        in red flash
+<Bagder>        atm
+<Zagor> alkorr: oooo, no thanks :)
+<Zagor> well i think it's ok now
+<Hadaka>        Well I still don't see why the widths have to be dynamic - is it just me that would like to see an aligned and constant width table, instead of varying width for columns
+<Zagor> Is fixed width worth the cost of breaking the table when/if we add a new column or rename a title?
+<Hadaka>        um, I don't get that - if the width of each column is like 5em, what's there to break?
+<Bagder>        what is 'em' ?
+<Hadaka>        in this case the standard width for a character in the current font and font size
+<Zagor> it breaks when we change columns to include "win32sim" and "x11sim", doesn't it?
+<Hadaka>        well if the titles are too wide, then ofcourse the width of that column will expand
+<Zagor> so then we are back to dynamic sizing, gaining exactly... what? :)
+<Hadaka>        no, we are back to dynamic sizing only if we get too wide titles - which is a problem in itself already - so then we either increase the width of columns to 6em (which should have been in the first case then) - or we just let it wrap the title some more
+<Zagor> ok, so it will work. I guess I just don't see the big advantage.
+<Hadaka>        yeah well it doesn't really matter - and especially not worth it if you don't do all the pages that way
+<Zagor> well all the pages use CSS already
+<alkorr>        color changes when "failed" ?
+<Zagor> yes, to red
+<Hadaka>        well why do you have bgcolors in there if you use CSS?
+<Zagor> for those who don't support CSS
+<Bagder>        should I set a class or something there?
+<Zagor> Bagder: you could, then we would be free to play with the look. <table class=buildstatus> for instance
+<Hadaka>        yeah
+<Bagder>        yes, and "buildok" and "buildfail" for the "boxes" ?
+<Hadaka>        then you can do .buildstatus td { width: 4em; } for example
+<Zagor> Bagder: yup
+<Bagder>        ok, coming up
+<alkorr>        see you later
+<--     alkorr has quit ()
+<Bagder>        should I remove the bgcolor then?
+<Zagor> yes
+<Zagor> Hadaka: sorry, I thought you meant bgcolor for the page...
+<Bagder>        there
+<Bagder>        you need to make buildok green to make it look similar again
+<Zagor> fixing...
+<Bagder>        I set a limit of 20 lines now
+<Zagor> there
+<Zagor> ok, i surrender. width is now 3em :)
+<Hadaka>        :)
+<Hadaka>        looks nice
+<Bagder>        haha
+<Bagder>        in fact it looks better
+<Zagor> traitor! ;)
+*       Bagder gives Hadaka a pat on the shoulder
+<Hadaka>        it should really be the decision of the user... but I would remove the underlining from the links in that build box
+<Zagor> nah, i don't like "invisible" links
+<Hadaka>        nods
+<Zagor> Hadaka: can I set a background color that is something like "X percent lighter than the current background"?
+<Hadaka>        not easily no
+<Zagor> without using absolute values, that is
+<Zagor> ok
+<Hadaka>        you can put a semi-transparent png there though ;)
+<Zagor> ouch :)
+<Bagder>        can that be done with the css?
+<Hadaka>        yeah :)
+<Hadaka>        nods
+<Bagder>        woo
+<Hadaka>        everything can have a background picture - and a transparent one at that
+<Hadaka>        even pieces of text
+<Bagder>        ok
+*       Bagder is a css cluebie
+---     Linus|lunch is now known as Linus
+<Linus> the button polling is awfully non-responsive
+<Zagor> Linus: as in "does not work"?
+<Hadaka>        well if you have mozilla, check out http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/
+<Linus> as in misses keypresses pretty often
+<Zagor> Linus: in normal use, or when you try to make it miss? ;)
+<Bagder>        hehe, fun page
+<Linus> when i repeatedly predd DOWN to move the cursor in the dir browser
+<Linus> press
+<Linus> I'll shorten the poll interval to see if it helps
+<Zagor> remember to adjust the repeat values too
+<Linus> ok
+<Zagor> they should probably be calculated from the poll value
+<Linus> roger that
+<Hadaka>        then select Edit -> Use style -> default page style or something
+<Hadaka>        and see the difference
+<Bagder>        that rocks
+*       Zagor switches to Mozilla when somebody tells him how to map the keys like Opera has'em
+*       Hadaka switches to Opera when opera renders stylesheets as well as Mozilla :)
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Bagder>        Zagor: could we have the target mod-builds in a table with three column?
+<Bagder>        might shorten the page a bit
+<Zagor> Bagder: sure
+<Linus> I would like a warning count for every build
+<Bagder>        you mean visible in the table?
+<Hadaka>        Bagder: did you notice from that CSS page btw, that when you scroll down, the semi-transparent box stays put?
+<Bagder>        yeah
+<Linus> meybe color-coded in the table, and highlighted in the log
+<Linus> a red OK means "ok with warnings", or something
+<Bagder>        the log hilight I've thought about adding, adding it to the table takes a little tweak
+<Linus> The LCD flickers a lot when scrolling the dir browser
+<Bagder>        we could have the "OK" text replaced with a number of warnings, would that make sense?
+<Linus> and OK when 0 0warnings
+<Bagder>        ah, good
+<Hadaka>        well in any case it would need a legend telling what things mean
+<Bagder>        true
+<Hadaka>        but that's already way nice :)
+<Linus> faster button polling helped a lot for the responsiveness
+<Linus> but we need to optimize display updates
+<Bagder>        its still pretty cool that it works this good without ever have been run on target before
+<Linus> yeah!
+<Bagder>        one point to the simulator ;-)
+<Linus> yup
+<Hadaka>        I can usually get button presses that are two or three sixtieths of a second - and down to one sixtieth if I try hard enough
+<Linus> it is fairly good at 20Hz today
+<Linus> but not perfect
+<Zagor> well 30Hz shouldn't be that much load anyway, right?
+<Linus> no
+<Hadaka>        is performance a problem on that thing? what things take a lot of time?
+<Linus> it is polling
+<Linus> in an interrupt
+<Zagor> flipping the bits on the MP3 data is the most cpu intesive thing we are today today, I'd say
+<Zagor> but we won't have to do that on the recorder, I hope
+<Linus> probably not
+<Bagder>        now watch the table
+<Linus> the button_tick IRQ didn't count the ticks properly
+<Zagor> Bagder: warning count?
+<Linus> a POLL_FREQUENCY of 2 made it poll ever 3 ticks
+<Bagder>        yah
+<Bagder>        0 => OK
+<Bagder>        Zagor: is the cgi a symlink to my one too?
+<Zagor> yep
+<Hadaka>        nice :)
+<Bagder>        ok, highlight of warnings coming up
+<Bagder>        many warnings ;-)
+<Bagder>        hm, do we wanna use css and stuff for the showlog.cgi too?
+<Zagor> nah, that's just unformatted text
+<Bagder>        it won't be
+<Zagor> :)
+<Bagder>        I'll do it html now
+<Zagor> if you make it html, then we should use css
+<Bagder>        so tell me what kind of <head> to include to make it work nicely
+<Zagor> look at any other page
+<Zagor> they all have it
+<Bagder>        ok
+<Bagder>        check it out now
+<Bagder>        press a link
+<Bagder>        the warnings have "clasee=gccwarn"
+<Zagor> ooh, background :)
+<Bagder>        class 
+<Zagor> ok, making them red
+<Bagder>        shall I have a class for the regular lines too?
+<Zagor> not unless you thing we should do something special with them
+<Bagder>        nah, it would just make it possible for you to make compiler output to look different than regular text
+<Bagder>        removed the long prefix from all paths in the output
+<Hadaka>        you could put all the output inside a div in any case, so padding doesn't have to be put for the body element in general
+<Bagder>        you mean just <div> all-output </div> ?
+<Hadaka>        yup
+<Hadaka>        and then closing the body and html :)
+<Bagder>        oh
+<Hadaka>        oh and maybe put a class for the div
+<Hadaka>        so then we can say .compileroutput { padding: 10px; } or something
+<Zagor> <br class=fubar> doesn't seem to work. at least nothing much happens
+<Bagder>        suggestion?
+<Zagor> i don
+<Bagder>        <div> on those lines?
+<Zagor> 't know. Hadaka, shouldn't this work?
+<Linus> Zagor: the ' key is awfully close to ENTER, don't you think?
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        thick fingers
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<Zagor> hehe, yes. plus this damn keyboard has a lot of silly extra keys on it. some windows blahblah
+<Linus> oh, here he goes again...
+<Linus> those keys are far from the ' key
+<Zagor> gotta go, guys. too sunny for me to hack more today :)
+<Zagor> yeah yeah, call me a wuss :)
+<Linus> that's ridiculous
+<Bagder>        Zagor: <div> is in place
+<Linus> "laddar batterierna"
+<Zagor> hehe, not quite there yet
+<Zagor> working on it ;)
+<--     Zagor has quit ("Client Exiting")
+<Bagder>        now why do I get an extra newline?
+<Hadaka>        I can check that soon
+<Bagder>        we should be working a bit on removing the warnings
+<Linus> yeah
+<Hadaka>        hm, should gcc-output be in <pre>?
+<Bagder>        there's a point in not doing that
+<Bagder>        and that is that it wraps nicer
+<Hadaka>        in any case - br should be between lines - not at the start, nor at the end
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs04m-1-191.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<--     alkorr has quit (Client Quit)
+-->     jedix (~liam@fwott1-1.cis.ec.gc.ca) has joined #rockbox
+<jedix> hey guys
+<Linus> yo
+<jedix> how stuff?
+<Linus> well, we have the recorder ATA working
+<jedix>    ^--is
+<jedix> thats sweet
+<Linus> i'm browsing files as we speak
+<jedix> nice
+<Linus> i am debugging my recorder with GDB
+<jedix> GDB?
+<Linus> over the serial port
+<Linus> Gnu Debugger
+<Hadaka>        Woohoo
+<Hadaka>        you guys are amazing
+<jedix> do you know how the device handles threads?
+<Linus> i assube that you mean the original archos firmware
+<Linus> assume
+<Linus> no, i don't think they have threads at all
+<jedix> ..yours doesn't?
+<Linus> we have threads
+<Linus> light-weight ones
+<Linus> the scheduler is somewhat primitive, with non-preemptive switching
+<jedix> well, I was trying to get the scrool working.. but right now its in a while(true) loop and I was thinking the best way to handle it would be to make a thread so you can tell it to sleep and such.
+<Hadaka>        could we do preemptive with that hardware?
+<Linus> Hadaka: yes. it's a software issue
+<Hadaka>        erm, but it's not a software issue if you can't get any interrupts in where to switch the stuff?
+<Hadaka>        but I'll just take yes as an answer, since I don't know enuff myself :) thanks
+<Linus> if we didn't have interrupts, we wouldn't need to make it preemptive, true
+<Linus> we have a number of interrupt sources, the serial port, the DMA, the timers...
+<Hadaka>        the timers interest me - what do you get from those?
+<Linus> there are a few hardware 16-bit timers that can give compare interrupts
+<Linus> and a very extensive capture functionality
+<Hadaka>        mmh, nice
+<Hadaka>        on the showlog stuff, you could put some regular padding for the whole body - and then a bit more padding on the div that has the gcc-output - I'd suppose it'd look nice then
+<jedix> damnit
+<--     trillback has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<Linus> who made chartables.c?
+<jedix> Linus: does the simulator do threads?
+<Linus> no, i don't think so
+<jedix> so, I guess my work is useless
+<Tumm>  För jag har tagit studenteeen, fy fan vad jag är bäst!
+<Tumm>  oh sorry
+<Tumm>  "Cause i've graduated, I'm so goddamn best"
+<Bagder>        Linus: Gary made the chartables
+<Bagder>        Hadaka: on the showlog stuff, how do you mean the div should be modified?
+<Hadaka>        Bagder: well the div has nothing wrong in it - the first line should not have a br before it though - but the stylesheet should be modified to include padding
+<Hadaka>        and the body should have margins - specified both in the stylesheet and on the actual element on the page
+<Linus> Bagder: do you know where they come from. Those array declarations are from hell!
+<Bagder>        Linus: I know, Gary brought them, no one changed them
+<Linus> why declare a 1 byte array???
+<jedix> do you guys want the code I put into lcd.c? its not operational, but it could be made so with little effort by someone that knows how the threads run or have a better overview of the project
+<Linus> i know, i know... the font code needs all fonts to be alike...
+<Linus> now we're down to 16 warnings :-)
+<Bagder>        I just changed it to build every 20 minute ;-)
+<Linus> jedix: where is it now?
+<Bagder>        nice, the extra newline disappeared from the output
+<jedix> Linus: on my hd
+<jedix> do you want it?
+<Linus> yeah. can you mail it? linus@haxx.se
+<jedix> sure
+<jedix> its off
+<Bagder>        one by one they go those warnings
+<Linus> kill'em all!!!!!!!
+<Bagder>        those ones in chartable are annoying
+<Linus> indeed. i don't want to change them without changing the generator script
+<Linus> i want the source fonts!
+<Bagder>        yeah, me too
+<Bagder>        it would also make it easier to make the rest of the iso8859-1 chars
+<Bagder>        did you find out what the .ejz file is?
+<Linus> no
+<Linus> and it didn't happen again...
+<Bagder>        wow
+<Linus> bah
+<jedix> Linus: did you get it?
+<Linus> yup
+<Linus> i'll look into it ASAP
+<jedix> cool, just making sure you got it
+<jedix> anything else I can do?
+<Bagder>        I changed the warnings counter to be more accurate
+<Bagder>        lowered the amounts
+<Linus> ?
+<Bagder>        I only count number of lines with warnings now
+<Bagder>        so multiple warnings on the same line is only one
+<Linus> that's cheating
+<Bagder>        no
+<Bagder>        the description is often multiple line
+<Bagder>        check the threads.c:41 warning
+<Bagder>        jedix: it is pretty much up to you I guess
+<Linus> But check the mpeg.c:278 warning
+<Linus> that's two different ones
+<Bagder>        yes, but the second is just an effect of the first
+<Linus> but can you be sure
+<Bagder>        so I think this is closer to reality
+<Bagder>        I know
+<jedix> Bagder: I don;t really have a well enough overview of the project to decide what needs to be done, and can be..
+<Linus> Bagder: grep -v "(near"
+<Bagder>        well, maybe that's what you can help with! get a grip and present it to the people
+<Bagder>        Linus: good point
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> jedix: and while you're trying to get a grip, point out what's badly documented
+<Linus> hi elinenbe
+<jedix> k
+<elinenbe>      hey there
+<elinenbe>      anyone want to write my database crash recovery routine?
+<Bagder>        me me me!
+<Bagder>        :-)
+*       Bagder can't even spell databsae
+<elinenbe>      well, it needs to be able to recover from a crash, and recover if it crashes while it is recovering :)
+<Bagder>        sounds very fun.... not .-)
+<Bagder>        Linus: now then, recalculated again ;-)
+<Linus> I just just killed the open() warning
+<Bagder>        the big question is, will we reach "OK" ?
+<Linus> Bagder: how to auto-eval in emacs?
+-->     jas_williams (jas_willia@modem-3823.bonobo.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> hi jas_williams
+<--     jas_williams has quit (Client Quit)
+<Bagder>        auto-eval ?
+<Linus> bye jas_williams
+<Linus> you know, those emacs comments in the bottom of some files
+<Bagder>        ah, right
+<Bagder>        (setq enable-local-eval t)
+<Bagder>        hey, those 2 final ones should be possible to kill too
+<Linus> what os that 'type' parameter supposed to do?
+<Linus> is
+<Bagder>        I don't know, I thought it should be an index
+<Linus> is the settings code used yet?
+<Bagder>        I don't think so
+<Linus> oh. i looked in it. i guess it's not used. :-)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        you should mail the list about you getting the ATA and gdb on recorder working
+<Linus> ok
+<Bagder>        it is just so cool
+<Bagder>        hey
+<Bagder>        I should make a link to the CVS from the file name in the compiler output
+<Bagder>        at least for the warnings
+<Bagder>        hm, or can really?
+<Bagder>        can I
+*       Bagder decides it is a bit too tricky
+<--     elinenbe has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.7 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0/20020530]")
+<Linus> Has anyone tried the playlists yet?
+<Bagder>        not to my knowledge
+<Linus> How does it work? Load a M3U file?
+<Bagder>        I'll work on them some more soonish
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        make a .m3u file
+<Bagder>        browse there, play it
+<Linus> how does such a file look like?
+<Bagder>        plain file names
+<Bagder>        use full path names
+<Linus> ok. i'll try it...
+<Bagder>        LF or CRLF separated
+<Bagder>        currently it does no shuffle or anything but plays from track 0 and onwards
+<Linus> ok
+<Bagder>        at least that's the intension ;-)
+<Bagder>        gotta go
+<Bagder>        see ya
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     jedix has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+-->     upiom (daniel@t2o40p52.telia.com) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> gotta go now. cu guys!
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     nicknackpattywac (~first@nat-198-95-226-227.netapp.com) has joined #rockbox
+---     upiom is now known as wmtime
+---     wmtime is now known as upiom
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+-->     elinenbe (~chatzilla@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<elinenbe>      hey there!
+<elinenbe>      I still think rockbox should be called...
+<elinenbe>      "Supa' Pang!"
+<--     elinenbe has quit (Client Quit)
+<datazone>      why not "Frink Cheep Cheep"
+<--     havardk has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     edx (OKE60@pD9EAA2FC.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     edx is now known as edx|away
+-->     huz (~marco@AToulouse-103-1-2-137.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<huz>   hello
+<huz>   since i've put rockbox i can't connect my archo to my pc
+<huz>   someone have had this problem ? 
+<huz>   ok,i haven't time yet, but i'll come back, because how we say in france : 
+<huz>   je suis dans la merde ! 
+<--     huz has quit ("leaving")
+-->     huz (huz@AToulouse-103-1-2-137.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<huz>   re
+<huz>   i'm under windows now, and the problem is the same
+<huz>   please i _really_ need help
+<huz>   youuuhouuu i think i've a big problem ! can you give me a way to resolv it please youhou 
+<huz>   \0/ _0_ \0/ _0_ \0/ _0_ \0/ _0_
+<huz>   ok i've found ! we must start archos connected to pc now ... maybe a note in the documentation will be great, don't you think ? 
+<--     huz has quit ("Client Exiting")
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     elinenbe has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.7 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0/20020530]")
+---     Tumm is now known as Tum|stdnt
+---     Tum|stdnt is now known as Tumm
+<--     PiotR has quit ("BitchX-1.0c19 -- just do it.")
+<--     edx|away has quit ("good night guys")
+-->     satino (~satino@0x50c4991f.adsl-fixed.tele.dk) has joined #rockbox
+<--     satino has quit ("Client Exiting")
+-->     ironi (ironi@as2-5-7.j.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<--     ironi has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+-->     ironi (ironi@as2-5-7.j.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<ironi> aloha
+-->     g003y2 (~foo@m198-187.dsl.rawbw.com) has joined #rockbox
+<g003y2>        anyone compiling the 1.0 firmware with cygwin/win2k?
+<ironi> i was about to, but i guess i needed a good tutorial
+<ironi> (saying that the one on the page is confusing"
+<g003y2>        well I think I'm close now
+<ironi> qand needs to be updated
+<ironi> well
+*       ironi is gone, zzz [l/on p/on]
+<g003y2>        I got everything compiled fine, but it seems like I'm missing something on my include path 
+<ironi> k
+<ironi> and you got it from the tutorial?
+<g003y2>        yeah
+<g003y2>        I followed it exactly except I don't have a "linus" home dir :D
+<g003y2>        I got the tools for sh1 compiles in place.
+<g003y2>        it is now just a matter of getting the whole process to recognize /usr/include for the standard c libs
+<ironi> i see
+<ironi> wel i think a new package could be nice
+<g003y2>        I know i'm just being dense about it :D
+<ironi> weher eyou can just unpack the latest source and unpack it to a certain folder and tun a batch file to complie the wqhole thing
+<g003y2>        yeah a batch file for the GNU-SH tool kit would've been nice.
+<ironi> well of i go
+<g003y2>        alright cya
+<ironi> 'nite
+-->     PiotR (~piotr@212-170-21-172.uc.nombres.ttd.es) has joined #rockbox
+<--     g003y2 (~foo@m198-187.dsl.rawbw.com) has left #rockbox
+<--     ironi has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     edx (OKE60@pD9EAA336.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<adam>  hey
+<adam>  http://remix.kwed.org/ == cool
+<adam>  oh well
+<adam>  beer > my conciousness
+<--     adam has quit ("[BX] Reserve your copy of BitchX-1.0c19 for the Apple Newton today!")
+-->     g003y2 (~foo@m198-187.dsl.rawbw.com) has joined #rockbox
+<--     g003y2 (~foo@m198-187.dsl.rawbw.com) has left #rockbox
+---     Disconnected (22).
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jun  9 07:13:58 2002
+
diff --git a/www/irc/rockbox-20020610.log b/www/irc/rockbox-20020610.log
new file mode 100644
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+++ b/www/irc/rockbox-20020610.log
@@ -0,0 +1,995 @@
+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun  9 19:13:53 2002
+
+-->     adiamas (~adiamas@as5300-9.216-194-23-77.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     Topic for #rockbox is Version 1.0 released! http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+---     Topic for #rockbox set by adi|home at Tue Jun  4 04:41:56
+-->     motiv01 (~trillian@sdn-ar-001ncraleP205.dialsprint.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<adam>  lo.
+<adam>  Thomas Detert - Clystron (title)
+-->     g003y2 (~foo@m198-187.dsl.rawbw.com) has joined #rockbox
+<adam>  hey
+<adam>  http://c64.org/radio/
+<adam>  == incredible
+<adiamas>       ok.. what is it?
+<adam>  heh
+<adam>  streaming radio of weird c64 remixes
+<adam>  my favs are the Clystron ones
+<adam>  which, I'll stream right now
+<adam>  http://rei.damnsw.net:8000
+<PsycoXul>      i should setup my c64 to be a kindof instrument
+<adam>  heh
+<adam>  Finally it gets a little cooler out here.
+<adam>  and I don't think my stupid id3 streaming is working
+<adam>  hmm, anyone know of a good cartoonish icon for the Archos jukebox?
+<miah>  sidstation!
+*       adam isn't using KDE or GNOME albeit uh
+<adam>  If there isn't one, I might as well make one :P
+<miah>  the sidstation rules all music devices
+<adam>  heh
+<--     g003y2 (~foo@m198-187.dsl.rawbw.com) has left #rockbox
+<adam>  fear sid
+<PsycoXul>      whats this sidstation
+<adam>  heh
+<miah>  let google be your friend
+<adam>  ahh, anne is listening to my stream
+*       adam is impressed :P
+<PsycoXul>      bah i didn't say i wanted to buy anything
+<PsycoXul>      i said i should setup shit i already got to do new things :p
+<adam>  BUT YOU KNOW YOU WANT IT!
+<PsycoXul>      naah
+<adam>  heh
+<PsycoXul>      if i'm gonna play with a synthesizer that i don't already have
+<PsycoXul>      i'm gonna make my own :p
+<adam>  indeed
+<PsycoXul>      i'd rather make my own non-electronic instrument though
+<PsycoXul>      that somehow uses magnetism and resonance conditions for suprising self-amplification
+<PsycoXul>      or somesuch :p
+*       adam will get a bottle
+<adam>  that uses the power of wind
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<adam>  damnit
+<PsycoXul>      i was thinking something stringed
+<adam>  ants trying to get my beer
+<adam>  ants rock :p
+<adam>  efficient little creaturse
+<adam>  ...
+<PsycoXul>      either that or something that uses things no instruments have as-of-yet utilized for sound creation :p
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      yeah life is weird stuff
+<adam>  heh
+<PsycoXul>      and if you talk to the scientists these days you'd get the impression that life isn't possible :p
+<adam>  heh
+<adam>  would a self replicating robot be too hard to make?
+<adam>  :P
+<PsycoXul>      to hell with self replicating
+*       adam notes his room is too warm
+<PsycoXul>      i'd just like any kind of machine that can not only perform useful work, but also mantain itself, and gather energy for itself, without any need for further user interaction once operational
+*       adam would like intelligent ants
+<adam>  :P
+<adam>  sapient bugs, yeah
+<PsycoXul>      you know, if we could tap into the same principles life itself runs on, we'd have no need for batteries or generators 
+<PsycoXul>      we'd have ourselves a nifty little overunity device :p
+<adam>  like photosynthesis? ;p
+<PsycoXul>      or how about the principles that atoms run on
+<PsycoXul>      they do run, afterall :p
+<adam>  heh
+<adam>  *shrugs*
+<PsycoXul>      it takes a tremendous amount of energy just for a piece of matter to exist
+<adam>  sometimes I'd just like to see it all fall down ;p
+<PsycoXul>      yeah well it'll do that
+<PsycoXul>      because once i build my technology on these principles, i'm not gonna share it.. i'll just take it and leave, and watch the commets hit some years later ... 
+<adam>  heh.
+*       PsycoXul laughs maniacally
+*       adam in turn will live in the wilderness
+<adam>  with bicycle powered electronics
+<adam>  :P
+<PsycoXul>      bah. electronics
+<PsycoXul>      primitive utilization of subatomic forces
+<adam>  indeed
+<adam>  cheap, too
+<adam>  :p
+<PsycoXul>      its too convoluted and inefficient
+<adam>  it works fine for me
+<adam>  ;)
+<adam>  of course, I'm not an evil genius
+<PsycoXul>      i've aquired a distaste of digital abstraction
+<PsycoXul>      its like a cheap and super-lossy vague ghost of what the data represents
+<PsycoXul>      its only lossless between itself since it's discrete packets of information that can be easily be recognized by our primitive techniques
+<adam>  and here is my great ant running around
+<adam>  she searches for food.
+<adam>  :P
+<PsycoXul>      yeah man
+*       adam will aquire a fondness for air conditioning
+<PsycoXul>      i want a computer that'll go out and find its own electricity :p
+<PsycoXul>      but not a computer and not electricity
+<PsycoXul>      but thats the idea you know :p
+<PsycoXul>      bbl dinner and stuff
+<adam>  heh
+*       adam will go take his beast for a walk
+<adam>  later
+<adam>  "I eated them purple berries and I feel fun"
+*       adam returns
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     adam has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+*       adam sets up the gopher
+---     dw|weekend is now known as dwihno
+<dwihno>        Good morning people
+<adam>  hey
+*       adam notes gopher is completely useless when he is running apache on the same box
+<adam>  of course
+<adam>  it doesn't hurt to run it ;p
+*       dwihno hasn't been using any gopher stuff in ages
+<adam>  yeah, I'm going back in time, man
+<dwihno>        Timewarp! :O
+<dwihno>        I'm catching up on the email I got this wekend
+<dwihno>        I read about Linus getting past the ata: -5 error stage
+<dwihno>        (which is great for the development)
+*       adam preens his dirs
+*       dwihno yawns like crazy
+<dwihno>        2 new e-mails
+<dwihno>        I bet it's regarding me not getting any jobs ;)
+*       adam notes he should probably be heading out
+<adam>  g'night
+<--     adam has quit ("[BX] Tickle-Me Elmo uses BitchX. *giggle* *giggle* *giggle*")
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+*       Bagder committs
+*       dwihno yells
+<Bagder>        ... and we're now "OK" on 7 builds out of 9 ;-)
+<Bagder>        7 of 9... hm
+<dwihno>        yay
+<Bagder>        isn't that Start Trek? ;-)
+<Bagder>        -t
+<dwihno>        hehe
+<dwihno>        you are gay
+<dwihno>        You need to get out more often
+<Bagder>        but I don't have any 802.11 ! ;-)
+<adiamas>       okay.. was gonna hang out.. but the us-china game is on.. time to curl into bed and watch some soccer/futball
+<adiamas>       night all
+---     You are now known as adi|home
+<Bagder>        night adi|home
+<Bagder>        dwihno: you tried the latest rockbox on your recorder yet?
+<dwihno>        Bagder: not really... I'm always afraid of having the disk locked :)
+<Bagder>        chicken ;-)
+<dwihno>        blahblahblah
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<dwihno>        I'm waiting for more functionality! Like mp3 decoding, playlist etc. :)
+<Bagder>        yeah, it makes more sense when it can play those mp3s ;-)
+<dwihno>        yeah
+<dwihno>        but I'll try it as soon as the file transfers are done
+<dwihno>        I need to upgrade my player
+<dwihno>        (as in recorder)
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> moo!
+<Bagder>        hey fellas
+<dwihno>        20 gb is not enough for both data and music
+<dwihno>        hello L and Z
+<Zagor> hi
+<Bagder>        we are down to "OK" on seven builds now
+<dwihno>        seven of nine star trek blahblahblah ;)
+<Linus> Zagor: I guess we are still mentally connected :-)
+<Zagor> yup :)
+<Zagor> Bagder: neato. warn-kill session this weekend?
+<Bagder>        Zagor: me and Linus did most of them on last friday
+<Linus> Mostly this friday
+<Bagder>        I did the the two final ones this morning
+<Bagder>        only chartable.c warnings left 
+<Linus> Tha table was so ugly with all those warnings
+<Zagor> my phone broke this weekend, so I haven't been able to read the mail SMSs
+<Bagder>        it broke?
+<Linus> display again?
+<Zagor> yeah, somehow. everything works, execept reading SMS...
+<Linus> ????
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        worn out ;-)
+<Bagder>        "too many SMS error"
+<Linus> Don't have it in your back pocket! :-)
+<Bagder>        "you've reached the maximum number of SMS"
+<Zagor> Linus: yes, but it's triggered by reading SMS. very strange. the screen goes blank, yet everything still works.
+<Linus> VIRUS!!!!
+<Bagder>        klez!
+<Zagor> hehe
+*       Bagder chuckles
+<Linus> I sent you an SMS full of CLS characters this friday.
+<Linus> :-)
+<Zagor> :)
+<Linus> I have given tha ATA problem a thought this weekend
+<Zagor> I don't want it to break now, there's no good phones out yet :)
+<Zagor> Linus: any result?
+<Linus> Is it possible that Andrew (or whoever it was that drew the Recorder sheets) has a Recorder10?
+<dwihno>        Yeah, I read the mailing list entry about the ATA stuffs0r
+<Zagor> Linus: a 10 or also a base "no-number" recorder
+<Linus> Maybe there are recorders out there that use address 0x300 for ATA CONTROL/ALT_STATUS?
+<Linus> we need to try an older recorder
+<dwihno>        Tell me about the serial mod
+<Linus> dwihno: what do you want to know?
+<dwihno>        How hard is it to do, and what do you basically do?
+<Zagor> dwihno: it's described on the web page
+<Linus> but only for the Player
+<Zagor> right
+<Linus> we connect serial port 1 to the line In jack
+<Linus> that way we can connect a gdb debugger
+<dwihno>        ah
+<dwihno>        <-- is newbie lamer stuff dude
+<Linus> :-)
+<dwihno>        I MUST upgrade my recorder with a 40 gig disk... I just realized that
+<Linus> Zagor: why do we need two leading // in a filename in the root
+<dwihno>        60 is too expensive
+<Zagor> Linus: do we? not on purpose, anyway
+<Linus> I tried the playlist code last friday
+<Linus> id didn't add any slashes at all, so i added one
+<Linus> and it still didn't work
+<Linus> with one slash it said "must be absolute path"
+<Zagor> odd
+<Linus> with two, it didn't find the file
+<Linus> sorry, that last thing was wrong
+<Linus> let me start over:
+<Zagor> add DEBUGF() for the opens. sine files can be opened in the root, I suspect the problem is in the playlist code rather than the file code
+<Linus> no slash: "must be absolute"
+<Linus> one slash: "file not found"
+<Linus> the file names are sent with two slashes to the mpeg thread by the dir browser as well
+<Zagor> ok, very strange
+<dwihno>        smells like pointer problenm
+<Zagor> not likely
+*       dwihno points his finger to the skies!
+<dwihno>        "IT'S A PLANE! NO, IT'S A BIRD! NO... IT'S... ZAGOR!"
+<dwihno>        Something funny to do on a rainy day: Defrag the archos over an USB 1.1 interface ;)
+*       PsycoXul wouldn't defrag his archos
+<dwihno>        heh
+<dwihno>        of course you would
+<dwihno>        The designers of the archos should have chosen a wider LCD
+<Linus> that would have been nice
+<Bagder>        yes, in colour
+<Bagder>        4"
+<Bagder>        ;*)
+<Zagor> except there's no room :)
+<Bagder>        touch screen
+<Linus> Bagder: why does the dir browser have two leading slashes in the file name when selecting a file in the root?
+<Bagder>        because it is silly?
+<Linus> maybe. i didn't think of that
+<Zagor> Linus: it's a bug, naturally
+<webmind>       isn't it a feature ?
+<dwihno>        Zagor: There is always room! :)
+<Linus> Bagder: hehe. look at the BUTTON_PLAY case in tree.c
+<Linus> that 'if' doesn't do much difference, does it? :-)
+<Linus> wait.
+<Linus> it does.
+<Linus> i am silly
+<Zagor> i know :)
+<Linus> ah! playtune() adds an extra slash
+<Zagor> aha
+<Zagor> silly code
+<Zagor> ahh, mail scan complete :)
+<Zagor> did anyone ever see code from the guy who worked on the scroller?
+<Bagder>        'playing' should be remade to be an enum for "play mode"
+<Bagder>        Zagor: he mailed it to Linus
+<Linus> I have it
+<Zagor> ok. can you send it to me? I'd like to get this working today
+<Linus> roger that
+<Zagor> Bagder: can we get some kind of "tick hook" in the simulator?
+<Bagder>        "tick hook"?
+<Zagor> yes, a periodic execution of a routine
+<Zagor> so we can get scrolling in the simulator, too
+<Bagder>        I'd prefer having "thread support"
+<Linus> can we change the playtune API to have just a full path instead of dir and name?
+<Bagder>        using setjmp/longjmp
+<Zagor> Linus: fine with me
+<Zagor> Bagder: but the thread switches aren't periodic. scrolling will look horrible if done in a thread :)
+<Bagder>        hm
+<Linus> Zagor: we can't do lcd updates in an interrupt anyway
+<Bagder>        well we could have a simulated timer tick using pthreads I guess
+<Zagor> Linus: no? we do it in UIE
+<Linus> imagine an lcd update being interrupted
+<Zagor> fine, so we mutex it
+*       Bagder gets scared
+<Zagor> uh, no
+<Zagor> bugger...
+<Linus> mutexes and interrupts don't work
+<Zagor> i know
+<Zagor> so what do we do? any bright ideas?
+<Linus> we have to do it in a separate thread
+<Zagor> we can try doing it in a thread and see how bad it looks. maybe i'm exaggerating the horridness
+<Linus> Zagor: i share your fear
+<Zagor> we'll just have to find out
+<Zagor> Bagder: do you have time to work in threading for the simulator?
+<Zagor> s/in/on
+<Bagder>        I'll see what I can do
+<Bagder>        fixed the dreaded bug now, may get time to do this today
+<Zagor> which bug was that?
+<Zagor> ah, at work?
+<Bagder>        yeah
+<Bagder>        very amusing one, I'll tell you one day ;-)
+<Bagder>        in short: when you use malloc() to allocate memory for your custom memory functions, don't do free(-1) when that thread terminates ;*)
+<Bagder>        (in pSOS)
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Bagder>        since we have certain parts using the standard malloc() too
+<Bagder>        we started getting random crashes all over when the same memory was handed out...
+<Zagor> ooh, nice
+<Bagder>        yeah, took a good while to narrow down
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs03v-8-217.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<alkorr>        yo
+<Bagder>        howdy
+<Zagor> hi alan
+<Bagder>        I think perhaps we shuld go with pthreads all the way for threads in the simulator
+<Bagder>        and use mutex or similar to have only one run at a time
+<Zagor> sounds good to me
+<Bagder>        of course it'll make the scheduling different, but I figure we can live with that
+<Linus> hi alan
+<Zagor> Bagder: yes, we shouldn't be counting on the scheduling behaving in any specific way
+<Bagder>        right
+<Linus> Zagor: except that it isn't premptive
+<Linus> preemptive
+<Bagder>        right, we'll have to enforce that
+<Zagor> right
+<Bagder>        yield will return a mutex and then attempt to get it again
+<Linus> damn. the keys are bouncing on my Player
+<Zagor> good
+<alkorr>        what's the trouble ?
+<Linus> i think we need some kind of debouncing after all
+<alkorr>        if you don't want to poll
+<alkorr>        you can use one of 5 timers
+<Linus> we poll today
+<alkorr>        first polling
+<alkorr>        start timer
+<alkorr>        at the end of timer, polling again to check
+<alkorr>        if no change, okay
+<alkorr>        if yes restart
+<Zagor> easier to just add debouncing to the current code, i think
+<alkorr>        where it occurs this debouncing ?
+<alkorr>        oh quite now i have some difficult to compile rockbox
+<alkorr>        are you really sure of removing all dependencies ?
+<alkorr>        i mean like stdlib.h, etc.
+<Zagor> no, we still need some newlib header files
+<Linus> no we haven't
+<Zagor> i intend to fix that
+<alkorr>        i would like to change the way to handle adc so we can scan the 8 all analogic pins
+<alkorr>        but not before a working rockbox
+<alkorr>        by the way, i saw you only read 8bits instead of 10bits
+<alkorr>        maybe for the keyboard it is sufficient
+<alkorr>        but for batteries level or external power ?
+<Linus> maybe 10 bits is better for that, yes
+<Zagor> 8 bits should be enough for anybody ;)
+<Linus> actually, i haven't done any research on where the other A/D inputs go
+<Linus> the player schematics show nothing
+<alkorr>        it is why it could be interesting to investigate via software
+<Linus> but i assume that at least the battery voltage measurements use the A/D
+<Linus> alkorr: good project
+<alkorr>        so we can see any variation on one of 8 analogic pins when plugging on or off anything
+<Linus> Zagor: go ahead and remove the libc header dependencies
+<Linus> BTW, is it possible to compile gcc without any libc at all?
+<alkorr>        as you code it, i'm unsure
+<Zagor> i tried last week, and failed on some asm code
+<Linus> or does it default to glibc?
+<Linus> asm code?
+<alkorr>        no libc and glibc is different
+<alkorr>        yes
+<alkorr>        just an explanation
+<alkorr>        when you are doing C shift operation
+<alkorr>        if I remember well
+<Zagor> Linus: yes, i'll run it again and paste the error
+<alkorr>        like : i is int => i >>= 3; will call a libc shift function
+<Bagder>        libgcc, yes
+<Zagor> /home/linus/cross_sh1/gcc-3.0.4/gcc/config/sh/lib1funcs.asm: /tmp/cc7nk38J.s:47: Error: no such instruction: `rotcl r4'
+<alkorr>        if the sign doesn't matter, you must turn into (unsigned)i >>= 3 to have the opcode instaed of a external function
+<alkorr>        add -m1 ?
+<Linus> alkorr: glibc and libgcc aren't the same, are they?
+<alkorr>        equally true for multiple and divide
+<Linus> i thought glibc and newlib did the same job
+<Linus> and that libgcc did what you describe
+<alkorr>        exactly
+<alkorr>        libgcc provides some standard operation that cpu has not
+<Linus> so glibc is a gnu implementation of libc
+<alkorr>        okay, i mean glibc is not libgcc
+<Linus> and newlib is another
+<alkorr>        newlib is like a light glibc, i think
+<Linus> libgcc is built anyway, regardless of newlib or glibc
+<alkorr>        exactly
+<Linus> so, back to my question:
+<alkorr>        so don't worry about
+<alkorr>        because mine is working
+<Linus> can you build a gcc without any libc at all?
+<Linus> ok good!
+<Linus> so you don't have any linc at all?
+<Linus> libc
+<alkorr>        I only have trouble with newlib
+<alkorr>        never tried it
+<alkorr>        i don't think so
+<alkorr>        i must have it !
+<alkorr>        wait !
+<alkorr>        libc : i must have it
+<alkorr>        newlib : cannot compile it
+<alkorr>        anyway, because you have some operators in C which can be turned into CPU opcodes, they call a function from libc
+<alkorr>        so i think libgcc cannot be removed
+<alkorr>        anyway, if you code trying to avoid to use operators or functions which uses libc
+<alkorr>        your final code would keep nothing from libc.
+<alkorr>        so it isn't a trouble for us
+<alkorr>        anyway, because you have some operators in C which CANNOT be turned into CPU opcodes, they call a function from libc
+<alkorr>        i'm an forever optimist :)
+<Bagder>        we don't compile with libc today, so no we don't need it
+<Bagder>        libgcc we need however
+-->     alan (alkorr@srs07v-6-45.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<alan>  sh*t ! i did not have time to read until i was disconnected
+<Linus> Bagder: i know, but i figured gcc wanted *some* kind of libc
+<alan>  what's the trouble with libc ???
+<Bagder>        Linus: nope
+<alan>  it only depends on what you need
+<alan>  int divide (int a,int b) { return a / b; }
+<alan>  ==>
+<alan>          .type   _divide,@function
+<alan>  _divide:
+<alan>          mov.l   .L2,r0
+<alan>          sts.l   pr,@-r15
+<alan>          jsr     @r0
+<alan>          nop
+<alan>          lds.l   @r15+,pr
+<alan>          rts
+<alan>          nop
+<alan>  .L3:
+<alan>          .align 2
+<alan>  .L2:
+<alan>          .long   ___sdivsi3
+<Bagder>        that's in libgcc, not libc
+<alan>  ah yes
+<alan>  sorry
+<alan>  i thought you were speaking about libgcc
+<Bagder>        we still link with libgcc
+<alan>  so you are speakink about libc and libm ?
+<Bagder>        Linus asked about libc
+<alan>  did you try without libc or libm ?
+<Bagder>        we don't link with them
+<Bagder>        so yes
+<alan>  when compiling i mean
+<alan>  because i'm quite sceptical
+<Bagder>        about what?
+<alan>  when linking of course
+<alan>  just add -nostdlib
+<alan>  to compile gcc without libc and libm
+<alan>  anyway we can avoid them with -nostdlib
+<alan>  it seems it is what you do in Makefile, am i wrong ?
+<Bagder>        no
+<Bagder>        we don't link with them
+<alan>  so all is better in the world
+<Zagor> have anyone else tried to compile gcc without newlib? i got no comments on my error.
+<alan>  i did
+<alan>  yesterday or yesterday else one
+<alan>  i must do it now ?
+<alan>  which error ?
+<Zagor> no, but I must to it to remove rockbox newlib dependencies
+<Zagor> /home/linus/cross_sh1/gcc-3.0.4/gcc/config/sh/lib1funcs.asm: /tmp/cc7nk38J.s:47: Error: no such instruction: `rotcl r4'
+<alan>  having a look
+<--     alkorr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<Linus> how about 3.0.3?
+<Zagor> haven't tried that. will do
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|lunch
+<alan>  i'm having a look on 3.0.3 lib1funcs.asm
+<alan>  see you later
+<--     alan has quit ()
+<dwihno>        ´m
+<dwihno>        Bza0!
+<dwihno>        Should I go for the 2650 or 8200 model of the Inspiron (dell) ?
+<Zagor> beats me
+<Zagor> get their 20" LCD screen, that's all I can say
+<dwihno>        :O
+<Zagor> why can't I gdb the simulator???
+<Bagder>        no idea
+<Bagder>        what happens?
+<Zagor> i doesn't hit any breakpoints, and it can't be stopped.
+<Bagder>        !
+<Zagor> do we really want lcd_putsxy() to wrap? it explicitly does
+<Zagor> lcd_puts() truncates for charcell. the bitmap code should do the same, IMHO
+<Bagder>        I agree
+<Bagder>        wrapping will hardly ever be what anyone would want
+<Zagor> exactly
+<Bagder>        watch my commit
+<Zagor> woo
+<Zagor> tested, I presume?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<dwihno>        I got mail! Yay
+<Zagor> great! I've just finished the scroll code, so this comes in handy
+<Zagor> but we need to talk about scrolling
+<Bagder>        we'll need to yeild() in the simulated I/O code to simulate that better I guess
+<Zagor> how do we want it, anyway? currently I support one line of scrolled text, but we may want to scroll the whole screen. we may also want to smooth-scroll on the recorder, if we can get that not to flicker or blur
+<Zagor> do we want to scroll several lines, independently of each other?
+<Zagor> I have the feeling that will look too chaotic to really be of use
+<Bagder>        I think so too
+---     Linus|lunch is now known as Linus
+<Linus> BTW, I tried the playlist code. It works (after I prepended a slash on the file names).
+<Zagor> nice
+<Zagor> Bagder: maybe init_threads() should be called kernel_init like in target?
+<Zagor> or, umm, they are not exactly the same thing but almost :)
+<Linus> Zagor: there is an init_threads in target
+<Zagor> oh. i
+<Zagor> 'm blind
+<Linus> it's new
+<Zagor> carry on, nothing to see here :)
+<Linus> it was born in the warning hunt last friday
+<Zagor> Linus: should main.c:init() call it, or is it called from somewhere else?
+<Linus> kernel_init() calls it
+<Zagor> ok
+<Zagor> but not we're approaching two separate init()s, one for target and one for simulator.
+<Zagor> maybe not so bad
+<Linus> possibly
+<Linus> as long as the target code doesn't get more complicated just to please the simulator
+<Zagor> Linus: is mpeg_file always open when you press stop?
+<Linus> oops.
+<Zagor> Bagder: the thread API opens up a whole can of worms... sleep() has to be redefined, and I also want a HZ constant I can use... :)
+---     Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
+<dwihno>        Does the RPM really make a difference if I would replace the disk in my archos?
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|meeting
+*       Bagder is back
+<Bagder>        Zagor|lunch: now what's wrong with sleep() ?
+<Hadaka>        dwihno: I'd expect RPM to affect the power expenditure
+<dwihno>        Hadaka: Yeah, but the higher RPM should also reduce the time needed to read data to the buffer...
+---     Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor
+<Zagor> Bagder: unix sleep() is whole-seconds. the firmware sleep is ticks. and I need subsecond sleep for the scroll etc.
+<Bagder>        we already do that
+<Bagder>        uisim/x11/sleep.c
+<Bagder>        it should however return and reget the mutex
+<Zagor> bah. i'm behind again...
+<Zagor> it was me who didn't include kernel.h
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Bagder>        the downside of having identical names
+<Zagor> yup
+<dwihno>        Zagor: What kind of disk did you replace the one in your archos?
+<Zagor> a toshiba 40gig
+<dwihno>        RPM-wise?
+<Zagor> the same as all normal laptop disks: 4200rpm
+<dwihno>        so 5400 is non-standard
+<dwihno>        ?
+<Zagor> yes, 5400 is used on "performance" 2.5-inch drives
+<Zagor> such as the Toshiba 4018 GAX
+<Zagor> I have the Toshiba 4018 GAS
+<Zagor> the GAX uses almost twice as much power for spinup
+<Zagor> or maybe it's the GAP I have. can't remember.
+<dwihno>        oof
+<dwihno>        evil stuff! :/
+-->     ironi (ironi@as2-5-7.j.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<ironi> hello ppl
+<Bagder>        howdy ironi
+<Zagor> hi
+<ironi> hey do oyu know if there is an open source implementation of osme kind fo rbiztalk
+<Bagder>        biztalk?
+<ironi> yeah
+<Zagor> search freshmeat.net
+<ironi> ms biztalk
+<ironi> something like it
+<Bagder>        wazzat?
+<ironi> i am doing oppsition on a masters thesis and they say biztalk is too expensive, $25k per processor
+<ironi> biztalk.org
+<ironi> (inagine micorosft using .org heh)
+<Zagor> well, that's expensive. you still haven't said what it is or does
+<Bagder>        if it can't be described in a few words, I don't care about it :)
+<ironi> http://sourceforge.net/projects/mec-eagle/
+<ironi> ok "BizTalk specificerar hur meddelandelösningar mellan applikationer och organisationer skall utformas och utvecklas vad gäller elektronisk handel. Meddelanden skickas som XML- dokument inbäddat i ett kuvert med information om dokumentet enligt SOAP "
+<Zagor> oh, boy. it's a buzzword soup
+<ironi> thats from their thesis , prolly form ms website or something hehehe
+<ironi> yep
+<ironi> ok i found mec-eagle
+*       Zagor is genetically allergic to it
+<ironi> it is a level 5 project at sourceforge
+<ironi> great stuff
+<Zagor> XML and SOAP is just idiot-speak for "plain-text protocol"
+*       Zagor feels humble today :)
+<Zagor> My "Smash" is a level 5 project too. It just says the code works.
+<Zagor> Rockbox is level 5 as well, now that I think about it...
+<ironi> Zagor =)
+<ironi> rockbox isn ot production/stable
+<Zagor> it is stable
+<Zagor> it has all the features advertised, and works 100%
+<Zagor> 1.0 is rock solid
+<ironi> heh
+<ironi> ok well
+<Zagor> marking it as "beta" just means it will be very confusing when to actually move it to "stable"
+<Zagor> way too much software is called "beta"
+<Bagder>        it is soon time for the anual mail2sms update release ;-)
+<Zagor> hehe. "mail2sms 2002"
+<Zagor> or is it called XP this time? ;)
+<Bagder>        "mail2sms XP" ... hehe
+<dwihno>        If you bundle it with other applications, you can name it XP, otherwise, just name it 2002 ;)
+<Zagor> only weenies use the same version scheme more than twice.
+<Zagor> dwihno: hehe
+<Bagder>        I'll start using names: mail2sms version "Bernie" :*)
+<dwihno>        Eww
+*       dwihno gets the shivers
+<Zagor> oooh, innovative!
+<ironi> hey have you tried linuxsms
+<ironi> it's nice, really
+<Zagor> I don't need to, we wrote smash...
+<Bagder>        why would we use that, we have a working solution! ;-)
+<ironi> Bagder: but does yours use free sms servcies?
+<ironi> or is it a sms gateway
+<Bagder>        yes, if we want to
+<Zagor> it uses any service you like
+<ironi> Zagor: oh really
+<ironi> so it can log in to 1rstwap.com and send sms?
+<ironi> without me going to the webpage
+<Bagder>        of course
+<Bagder>        curl is the answer
+<Zagor> Bagder: is there any reason we don't compile the simulators with DEBUG?
+<ironi> well
+<Bagder>        Zagor: yes, because that's the symbol taken for compiling the gdb stub :-) other reasons: no 
+<ironi> this ismple perl script does the job just as good =)
+<Zagor> Bagder: buh, change it :)
+<Bagder>        ironi: smash is a complete system for posting messages and queueing etc, it is not just a deliverer
+<Zagor> ironi: yeah, for one message every now and then. try sending a couple hundred per hour, from 16 different machines. then the little perlie isn't so fun anymore :)
+<ironi> Zagor: of course
+<ironi> I understand that
+<ironi> I just think tlinuxsms is easier to use for individuals
+<ironi> =)
+<ironi> well ANYWAY
+<Zagor> yeah, it probably is
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<ironi> i made a php/wap page
+<Bagder>        you could still use mail2sms to get your mails into a suitable text 
+<ironi> so now (since gprs i free until 31/10 on comviq) i can send FERE sms from my cellphone
+<ironi> FREEEE
+<ironi> that kinda rocks
+<dwihno>        How much do you pay for the used bandwidth after that?
+<ironi> dwihno: i think 50kr/month with 3 mb included (which is mor ethan enough to view A LOT of wap pages)
+<ironi> oops gotta go to schoo
+<ironi> l
+<ironi> later=)
+<Bagder>        see ya ironi
+<dwihno>        bajbaj
+<--     miah has quit (card.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+-->     miah (~miah@pihkal.com) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        woah
+<Bagder>        check the build status
+<Bagder>        they're not red ;-)
+<Zagor> when does it run, anyway? on checkin?
+<Bagder>        no, it checks out and checks for diffs
+<Zagor> when=
+<Bagder>        every 20 mins
+<Zagor> typical. that non-building code was in for about two minutes...
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        well, now we got to see the 'fail' text
+<Zagor> fixing
+<Zagor> ouch, too red
+<Bagder>        you'd need a different font color for that red
+<Zagor> how about this pink?
+<Bagder>        fine
+<Zagor> and how about only showing the five last builds or something?
+<Bagder>        these are the last 20 ;-)
+<Zagor> ok, fine
+<Bagder>        so at least it won't grow bigger than this
+<Zagor> then it's good
+---     Linus|meeting is now known as Linus
+-->     edx (OKE60@pD9EAB5E1.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<edx>   hi
+<Zagor> hi edx
+<Bagder>        hey
+<edx>   hmm ... how far is ata.. read the log message of ata.c :)
+<Bagder>        edx: thread support coming to the X11 simulator soon
+<Zagor> edx: we've added threading to the simulator. time to work! :)
+<edx>   ohuoh..
+<edx>   threading should not be a problem...
+<edx>   but i wont have time before the day after tomorrow :(
+<Zagor> no problem
+<Zagor> is someone needs it before then, he'll just have to do it :)
+<edx>   hmm so what is that with the ata driver?
+<Bagder>        edx: it works
+<edx>   really? :) for the recorder.. that is great
+<edx>   that was a wrong command address im memory?
+<Bagder>        all praise to Linus for that
+*       Bagder runs on a meeting
+<edx>   * Greate  praise for Linus *
+<edx>   ok.. gotta do my homework :( .. later
+---     edx is now known as edx|homework
+<edx|homework>  ah.. Zagor, another thing
+<Zagor> yes?
+<edx|homework>  Linus changed ATA_CONTROL... in ata.c - does it still work for the player (have you tried?)
+<Linus> it works
+<edx|homework>  ok
+<edx|homework>  good job, Linus! :)
+<Linus> thx! those addresses are a story of their own
+<edx|homework>  hehe
+<Linus> the player only cares about the lower 4 bits and bit A20/21
+<Linus> the recorder cares about the lower 4 bits and bit A8/9
+<Linus> so we can support both hardwares by combining them in the same constant
+<edx|homework>  aha
+<edx|homework>  so that is there was A8/9 wrong?
+<edx|homework>  but A20/21 correct..
+<Linus> exactly
+<Linus> but i'm not sure that it was wrong
+<Linus> i'm beginning to suspect that different recorders have different address encoding...
+<Linus> we need an older recorder to try on
+<edx|homework>  hmm what firmware? "older"?
+<edx|homework>  i have a recorder.. but i guess its rather new..
+<Zagor> something that is not an r20
+<Linus> one with ISD200 USB interface
+<edx|homework>  ah ok forget about it.. i have an r20
+<edx|homework>  ok... but that one might work like the player... (?)
+<Zagor> yeah, well we'd like to find out
+<edx|homework>  hm put it on the top of the rockbox site ;)
+<edx|homework>  right in the front... <h1> tag lol
+<Zagor> a mail to the list is probably more helpful :)
+<edx|homework>  heh right...
+<edx|homework>  just if noone responds there might be people looking at the site and not joining the mailing list..
+<Zagor> Bagder: i'm getting a lot of X errors: Xlib: unexpected async reply (sequence 0x57f)!
+<Bagder>        never seen those
+<Zagor> i get them when scrolling. i'll check it in soon
+<Bagder>        X sure is magic business ;-)
+<Zagor> indeed
+<dwihno>        Magic stuff(tm)
+<Bagder>        Zagor: threads working otherwise?
+<Zagor> yup, perfectly
+<Bagder>        hm, could the X problems be due to the threads?
+<Zagor> I think so, I got the when I started working with threads
+<Zagor> there. now we have scrolling
+<dwihno>        Yay! :D
+<Zagor> playlist support and scrolling, that's what I have listed as 1.1 features on the front page...
+<Bagder>        we need to try it out more on target
+<Zagor> yup
+<dwihno>        I can test it on the r20
+<Zagor> please do
+<Linus> I'm loading it into the player now...
+<Bagder>        we did get two new warnings though
+<Zagor> oh, I introduced some warnings. fixing...
+<Linus> crash bang!!!!!
+<dwihno>        Is there an automated build process?
+<Bagder>        dwihno: yes
+<Zagor> Linus: what happens?
+<Bagder>        dwihno: http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/daily.shtml
+<Bagder>        dwihno: scroll down
+<Linus> UIE09
+<Zagor> what's that?
+<Bagder>        address error
+<Zagor> boo
+<Zagor> bad bug then
+<Zagor> Linus: can you gdb it and see where?
+<Linus> ooooh. it worked the second time...
+<Zagor> looks ok?
+<Bagder>        ugha
+<Linus> how do i turn on scrolling?
+<dwihno>        I only see the "once a day" builds
+<Zagor> dwihno: at the bottom of the page: "Build status"
+<Bagder>        dwihno: the status below that is the automated builds
+<Zagor> warnings killed
+*       dwihno is blind
+-->     jedix (~liam@fwott1-1.cis.ec.gc.ca) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> how do i turn on scrolling?
+<Zagor> Linus: it's always on
+<Linus> when?
+<Bagder>        hey jedix
+<Zagor> in the file browser
+<jedix> hey
+<Linus> well, mine doesn't scroll
+<Zagor> did you get the new tree.c and main.c ?
+<dwihno>        The "bleeding edge" binaries are not downloadable, huh?
+<Bagder>        dwihno: no
+<Zagor> dwihno: no, only the daily builds
+<Bagder>        that's bleeding enough for download ;-)
+<Zagor> the are deemed bleeding enough :)
+<dwihno>        :)
+<dwihno>        Do they have scroll stuff?
+<Bagder>        no
+<Bagder>        tomorrow they do!
+<dwihno>        Okay, then I'll wait
+<Zagor> I just checked that in, and it currently bugs too
+<Bagder>        jedix: your scroll is getting into the software now
+<jedix> sweet
+<Zagor> only i rewrote it :)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Linus> Zagor: is it only for recorder?
+<jedix> whaa?
+<Zagor> Linus: no, for both
+<Bagder>        time to get a coke
+<Linus> no go here
+<jedix> Bagder: yes sounds like a plan..
+<Zagor> they both work in the simulators. must be something not inited right
+<Zagor> does scroll_thread run?
+<Zagor> ahhh!
+<Zagor> my bad
+-->     alkorr (alkorr@srs05v-3-43.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> player code doesn't have lcd_init previously. I must add it. one minute.
+<Linus> hi alal
+<Linus> alan
+*       Bagder drinks ice-cold coke and says aaaaaaaaaaaaah
+<alkorr>        hi
+<alkorr>        soemtimes people have very weird ideas
+<alkorr>        there is one who like to be able to browse camera pictures on his jukebox :/
+<Linus> i assume it is a Recorder. :-)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        noooo
+<Bagder>        jpg2ascii
+<Bagder>        ;-)
+<alkorr>        ahahah
+<Linus> lucky we have a scroller then :-)
+<alkorr>        quite funny, a jpg2ascii
+<alkorr>        what is it eaxctly ?
+<Bagder>        I used one once
+<alkorr>        a big page we can scroll on screen ?
+<alkorr>        or just a horizontal text scroller ?
+<Zagor> text scroll for now, for use with filenames
+<Linus> just horizontal text scroller, for file names and such
+<alkorr>        ok
+<alkorr>        128 chars max i see
+<Linus> we can sell commercial banners that displays when playing songs :-)
+<alkorr>        ahahah
+<Linus> .....drink Coke...............Just Do It..............
+<alkorr>        unhopefully we are open source, it would be very easy to get rid off ;P
+<alkorr>        or hopefully should I say :)
+<alkorr>        Zagor, you think to remove any newlib dependencies for how time ?
+<Zagor> i need to get my non-newlib gcc working first. i hope to do that tomorrow.
+<alkorr>        ok
+<alkorr>        by the way, did you try with gcc 3.0.3 instead of 3.0.4
+<Zagor> not yet
+<alkorr>        to see if errors persist ?
+<Zagor> Linus: try the new versions
+<alkorr>        it is weird that error comming from "rotcl r14"
+<Zagor> yes, very
+<alkorr>        but there is plenty of reference to this opcode in libasm1.c
+<alkorr>        which line is concerned we don't know :/ 
+<alkorr>        what is the exact message ?
+<Zagor> i have to go, we'll fix it tomorrow ok?
+<Bagder>        see ya z
+<Zagor> hope the scroll works now...
+<Zagor> bye
+<alkorr>        ok, i'm trying to get back the log
+<alkorr>        bye
+<--     Zagor has quit ("Client Exiting")
+<alkorr>        :( mirc doesn't log
+<Bagder>        mirc is evil
+<Bagder>        ;-)
+<alkorr>        arf :)
+<alkorr>        yaa...
+<Linus> what did we say about the show_logo ATA thing?
+<Bagder>        use internal-only
+<jedix> mirc implies an evil os
+<Linus> the current firmware tries to load a BMP file before ATA is initialized
+<Linus> Bagder: can you fix that?
+<dwihno>        oops
+<dwihno>        that's a typical nono :)
+<Bagder>        Linus: sure
+<jedix> why did zagor rewrite my code?
+<alkorr>        this BMP is embbeded in rockbox ?
+<Bagder>        alkorr: the BMP reader code is, yes
+<Linus> it displays a file-based logo if it exists
+<alkorr>        so it is not embedded :)
+<alkorr>        i was speaking about the picture
+<Linus> "if it exists"
+<Linus> if it doesn't, it uses the internal one
+<Bagder>        there is a logo embedded too
+<alkorr>        okay
+<alkorr>        if an external one exists displays it instead of internal one
+<alkorr>        is that so ?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        but not anymore ;-)
+<dwihno>        :(
+<alkorr>        ok so just rephrase my sentence in past :)
+<Bagder>        hehe, right
+<dwihno>        I'll make my own branch called "logoboX" ;)
+<Bagder>        currently, the show_logo() stuff is made before ATA is inited
+<Bagder>        we can't load a logo then
+<Bagder>        we need to move the logo-loading
+<alkorr>        well it is a matter to move the piece of code
+<Bagder>        yes, but since the initing will take a little time anyway, we'll display the internal one in the mean time
+<alkorr>        okay
+<alkorr>        why not a progress bar ?
+<Bagder>        we could add one below the logo
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|meeting
+<Hadaka>        progress bar sucks, verbose messages on what the machine is doing are nice :)
+<alkorr>        sure, people don't like not to know why their toy looks frozen
+<alkorr>        Hadaka, we don't need to surcharge code with messages
+<alkorr>        especially for initialisation part
+<alkorr>        please, we are not working with a PC full of memory...
+<Hadaka>        well true, I have no idea what memory problems you have already encountered
+<alkorr>        first, we only have 2 MB
+<alkorr>        second, to waste data and code just for displaying an initial message (that is something we don't need in fact for th rest)
+<Hadaka>        does the 2MB need to hold the buffer for the disk reads as well or is that separate?
+<alkorr>        code, data and buffer are in the same memory
+<alkorr>        so growing code and data means less buffer
+<Bagder>        hm brb
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<Hadaka>        well your call - I personally would still want a few kilobytes used for 'ATA Init' 'DAC Init' 'FAT init' etc.
+<alkorr>        pardon ?
+<alkorr>        what do you mean ?
+<alkorr>        i was away :)
+<alkorr>        Hadaka: what do you mean ?
+<Hadaka>        um
+<Hadaka>        the same thing I meant originally
+<alkorr>        those KB are for what, code, data ?
+<Hadaka>        code and the string constants
+<alkorr>        ah yes
+<alkorr>        well, in fact
+<alkorr>        on the screen ?
+<Hadaka>        um, yes - rather than a progress bar that is
+<alkorr>        first, you wouldn't have time enough to read messages
+<alkorr>        i think the best thing is to have a progress bar and message error when occurs in module
+<alkorr>        that a minimum of messaged
+<alkorr>        d -> s
+<Hadaka>        well then we differ in what we want, simple as that
+<alkorr>        I'm speaking about player AND recorder, not only for recorder
+<--     miah has quit (card.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<Hadaka>        I've never even seen the player, so I don't know about that
+<alkorr>        you cannot see a lot of things on playes
+<alkorr>        2 lines of 11 characters...
+-->     miah (~miah@pihkal.com) has joined #rockbox
+<alkorr>        a thing is sure, since we have an open source, we are free to add whatever we want
+<Hadaka>        It's funny how much information you can stick in L LI LIL LILO and LIL-
+<Hadaka>        maybe you could use R O C K B O X ;)
+<Hadaka>        but true, if I want it, I can code it myself
+<alkorr>        some prefers to have a minimal but efficient firmware, others plenty of stuffs but rather consumptive firmware
+<alkorr>        L LI ???? what is it LILO ???
+<Hadaka>        oh, lilo is the linux loader - it prints LILO on the screen when it runs successfully - or one of the variants if it fucks up at some point - and you can usually tell exactly where it went wrong by that
+<alkorr>        oh okay like a progress bar using a text ?
+<dwihno>        r.. o.. c.. k.. b.. [err]
+<dwihno>        or something :)
+<dwihno>        I can do neat PDF's! :D
+<alkorr>        it's an idea
+<Hadaka>        well kind of - except that you don't have to count pixels in a progress bar but can say directly that it printed 'ROC' and then someone here will say "Oh god, the ATA code is fucked again."
+<alkorr>        my only opinion is just to display something when an error really occurs
+<Hadaka>        since at a bootloader stage, anything can happen - and expecting all errors to be catchable is not possible - atleast not on PC bootloaders
+<Hadaka>        I dunno if you can catch each and every error on the archos
+<alkorr>        well just compile with gdb ;)
+<Hadaka>        err, that isn't possible when a dumb user comes with an obscure archos and tells you that his on his box, the progress bar freezes "about halfway"
+<alkorr>        well, i'm just waiting for a rockbox running without newlib. i could then add some hardware stuffs
+<dwihno>        I'm looking forward to test it tomorrow
+<alkorr>        sorry, can you rephrase ?
+<alkorr>        "obscure archos" ?
+<alkorr>        "that his on ..." ?
+<Hadaka>        compiling with gdb is not an option when a user whines that the archos freezes during loading
+<alkorr>        oh yeah it is just a joke
+<Hadaka>        obscure archos => a different model of archos no one else has had yet
+<alkorr>        gdb is for developer, we know that
+<alkorr>        there are very few chance for that
+<alkorr>        because it means a different archos firmware fisrt
+<Hadaka>        well haven't you here just pondered that does somebody have an older version of the recorder, one with ISD200?
+<alkorr>        anyway, either you catch an error message or nothing. That nothing doesn't mean if you had more explicit message you would be able to guess that you have "obscure" archos
+<alkorr>        yeah
+<alkorr>        it is normal
+<alkorr>        ISD300 was out after recorder
+<Hadaka>        well even if you would get nothing, you would be able to say that it's the ATA code that is failing - even if the archos freezes
+<alkorr>        so inevitably you can find recorder with isd200
+<alkorr>        if archos freezes, just ask for people to use another rockbox with more messages
+<Hadaka>        but the real point is just that I'd much rather see some indication of what the archos is actually doing, rather than an opaque progress bar
+<alkorr>        you can have two different rockbox for testing or for playing
+<Hadaka>        it's just a personal preference
+<Hadaka>        some people might prefer a cool progress bar, I definitely don't
+<alkorr>        okay if you think to lose 32 KB for messages and code is not a problem for you, it is your choice
+<alkorr>        as i told you it is just a matter of adding or not what you want
+<Hadaka>        yeah I agreed with that
+<alkorr>        just add it as an option, so people who don't want them ae not forced to get redi of them
+<alkorr>        rif
+<alkorr>        rid
+<alkorr>        maybe some macro which are void when not demanded for example
+<alkorr>        something like it
+<alkorr>        we should speak with other developers to know what kind of solution to have them as option
+<Hadaka>        well right now I'm quite busy at work and at other projects - I just voiced a preference - if I really want it, I'll code it myself
+<alkorr>        ok
+<Linus|meeting> I have now tried the scrolling filenames on the Player
+---     Linus|meeting is now known as Linus
+<Linus> it works Ok
+<alkorr>        good
+<Linus> i'll try it on the recorder now
+<alkorr>        i'm still waiting for a working rockbox :)
+<alkorr>        :/
+<Linus> Zagor is on the case
+<alkorr>        hopefully
+<alkorr>        my scanner/printer has no driver for linux :(
+<Linus> :-(
+<Linus> well, the scroller isn't perfect, but it's a good start
+<Linus> at least we can see the whole file name now
+<alkorr>        on pixel basis or on char basis ? (the moving)
+<Linus> char
+<alkorr>        because of player ?
+<alkorr>        well i suppose so
+<Linus> sort of
+<dwihno>        How fast is the scroller btw? :)
+*       dwihno likes'em fast
+<Linus> now it is 5 updates per second
+<Linus> it is a little too slow
+<Linus> but if we scroll too fast it gets blurry on the player
+<alkorr>        that's right
+<Linus> maybe the player lcd would be sharper if we used the internal scroll function
+<alkorr>        well if you want to scroll two lines, that coul be an idea
+<Linus> gotta go now, CU!!!
+<alkorr>        CU
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<alkorr>        CU
+<--     alkorr has quit ()
+---     dwihno is now known as dw|gone
+---     Disconnected (Connection reset by peer).
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jun 10 12:17:44 2002
diff --git a/www/irc/rockbox-20020611.log b/www/irc/rockbox-20020611.log
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+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 10 21:05:05 2002
+
+-->     adiamas (~adiamas@as5300-9.216-194-23-77.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     Topic for #rockbox is Let your Box Rock! - http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+---     Topic for #rockbox set by edx at Mon Jun 10 15:15:16
+---     You are now known as adi|home
+<--     datazone has quit ("Client Exiting")
+<PsycoXul>      archos' warranty is only 90 days isn't it?
+-->     g003y2 (~foo@m198-187.dsl.rawbw.com) has joined #rockbox
+<--     g003y2 (~foo@m198-187.dsl.rawbw.com) has left #rockbox
+<adi|home>      last i checked, yeah PsycoXul
+<PsycoXul>      so i wonder if best buy cares about the warranty seal for their warranty plan... heh
+<adi|home>      heheheh what you do to your unit?
+<PsycoXul>      nothing
+<PsycoXul>      yet
+<adi|home>      hhehhe
+<PsycoXul>      thats why i'm wondering :p
+<PsycoXul>      cause i'd like to do the serial port mod at some point
+---     dw|gone is now known as dwihno
+<dwihno>        ROCK DA BOX!!!
+<dwihno>        :D
+-->     g003y (~foo@m198-187.dsl.rawbw.com) has joined #rockbox
+---     ChanServ has changed the topic to: Version 1.0 released! http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<dwihno>        Howdy ho, Linus :)
+<Linus> yo!
+<dwihno>        Have you looked into the mp3 decoding chip of the recorder?
+<Linus> i'm on it
+<Linus> reading the data sheets...
+<dwihno>        Mr. Data
+<dwihno>        You need Caramelldansen!
+<Linus> unfortunately, dcc doesn't work for me...
+<dwihno>        :-(
+<dwihno>        wget torde funka ;D
+<adi|home>      whats the correct spelling of pessimist?
+<adi|home>      is it that way?
+<dwihno>        yaway
+<adi|home>      k.
+<Linus> dwihno: Caramelldansen...what a musical breakthrough... :-)
+<dwihno>        You bet! :D
+<dwihno>        Dansa med oss, klappa era händer etc. ;)
+<dwihno>        "Vi hoppas för fruktbar samarbete"
+<dwihno>        hmm... :)
+<--     WetBed has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<--     PiotR has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<--     Linus has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<--     g003y has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<--     dwihno has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<--     adi|work has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<--     webmind has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<--     Tumm has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+-->     PiotR (~piotr@212-170-21-172.uc.nombres.ttd.es) has joined #rockbox
+-->     adi|work (~adiamas@pool-151-204-140-140.ny325.east.verizon.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     webmind (webmind@seal.student.utwente.nl) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Tumm (coyote@dreamhosted.borlange.se) has joined #rockbox
+<adi|home>      is it a safe assumption that a playlist will always end with ".m3u"?
+-->     WetBed (~wettoad@uludag.mbi-berlin.de) has joined #rockbox
+<webmind>       uhm
+<webmind>       cant it be pls aswell ?
+<PsycoXul>      thats winamp's own format playlist isn't it?
+<adi|home>      dunno..t hats why i asked
+<PsycoXul>      and different?
+<adi|home>      ive only ever seen m3u
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     g003y (~foo@m198-187.dsl.rawbw.com) has joined #rockbox
+-->     dwihno (dwihno@Bald067.Baldakinen.Umea.SE) has joined #rockbox
+<adi|home>      someone wanna check?
+<dwihno>        The format is the same
+<adi|home>      okay
+<dwihno>        m3u's are sometimes stored with #-marked extradata
+<--     PsycoXul has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+<--     Hadaka has quit (Broken pipe)
+<--     Linus has quit ("disconnecting from stoned server.")
+<dwihno>        Sure... 
+<dwihno>        The m3u format (as used by winamp):
+<dwihno>        #EXTM3U
+<dwihno>        #EXTINF:319,machinae supremacy - i turn to you
+<dwihno>        C:\download\dc\machinae_supremacy_-_i_turn_to_you.mp3
+<dwihno>        Like this
+<dwihno>        [playlist]
+<dwihno>        File1=\download\dc\machinae_supremacy_-_i_turn_to_you.mp3
+<dwihno>        Title1=machinae supremacy - i turn to you
+<dwihno>        Length1=319
+<dwihno>        NumberOfEntries=1
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<dwihno>        Version=2
+<dwihno>        that was pls
+<dwihno>        you should check the playlist format in xmms
+-->     PsycoXuul (psyco@adsl-63-205-43-243.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     g003y (~foo@m198-187.dsl.rawbw.com) has left #rockbox
+<--     PiotR has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<dwihno>        please confirm :)
+-->     Hadaka_ (naked@graywolf.onnanifujiyuu.org) has joined #rockbox
+<--     webmind has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<--     Tumm has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<--     adi|work has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<adi|home>      i thought we had bool defined as a type?
+<dwihno>        I'm just sure you didn't miss anything because of the splits
+-->     webmind (webmind@seal.student.utwente.nl) has joined #rockbox
+-->     PiotR (~piotr@212-170-21-172.uc.nombres.ttd.es) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     adi|work (~adiamas@pool-151-204-140-140.ny325.east.verizon.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Tumm (coyote@dreamhosted.borlange.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> chooo
+-->     g003y (~foo@m198-187.dsl.rawbw.com) has joined #rockbox
+<--     WetBed has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<Zagor> Linus: why do you want to show the logo last in init?
+<adi|home>      Zagor.. isn't bool defined in the src?
+<--     g003y has quit (Killed (hardy.openprojects.net (bear.openprojects.net <- sendak.openprojects.net)))
+<Hadaka_>       why aren't the daily builds running btw?
+-->     WetBed (~wettoad@uludag.mbi-berlin.de) has joined #rockbox
+<--     webmind has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<--     PiotR has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<Zagor> not any more. we use the definition in stdbool.h instead
+<Zagor> no, we removed it
+<dwihno>        Hellojs Zag
+<Zagor> they are. the latest is the 11th, today
+<adi|home>      k
+<--     Tumm has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+<--     adi|work has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+-->     Tumm (coyote@dreamhosted.borlange.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     adi|work (~adiamas@pool-151-204-140-140.ny325.east.verizon.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     Disconnected (Remote host closed socket).
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jun 11 03:12:56 2002
+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 11 03:33:58 2002
+
+-->     adiamas (~adiamas@as5300-9.216-194-23-77.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     Topic for #rockbox is Version 1.0 released! http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+---     Topic for #rockbox set by ChanServ at Tue Jun 11 03:31:20
+<Zagor> but why after button and mpeg init etc?
+<Zagor> it sort of defies the purpose to display the startup screen *after* startup...
+---     You are now known as adi|home
+<adi|home>      well that was interesting
+<Linus> Zagor: i didn't bother at the time.
+-->     g003y (~foo@m198-187.dsl.rawbw.com) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> yeah, openprojects seems very flaky at the moment
+<adi|home>      btw... im beat.. can someone take a look at the scroll stuff?
+<adi|home>      its buggy
+<Zagor> adi|home: what's the problem?
+<Linus> Bagder promised to remove the disk loading, and before that i just put it last
+<adi|home>      i hav chars remaining on the screen after the scroll goes by
+<Linus> adi|home: yes it bugs
+<adi|home>      zag... make a file of say 4 chars
+<Zagor> on last line, or all lines?
+<adi|home>      foo.mp3
+<adi|home>      and let it scroll
+<adi|home>      oh.. i just submitted a playlist.c fix
+<Linus> it tries to scroll file names that are shorter than the screen width
+<Linus> and fails
+<adi|home>      now we read in the file 255 bytes at a time
+<adi|home>      hmm... leave it.. ill take a look tomorrow night
+<Zagor> ah, yes it does. my fault, fixing...
+<adi|home>      you got it zag?
+<Zagor> yep, will fix
+<adi|home>      k
+<adi|home>      and i tested my playlist fix.. but im beat.. so if someone else could take a look as well, id appreciated it...
+<adi|home>      night all
+---     You are now known as adi|sleep
+<Zagor> night!
+<Hadaka>        hmh, I must agree that this 1.27something firmware is kind of even suckier than 1.24
+<Zagor> :)
+<dwihno>        I think the scrolling part should have been fixed several versions ago... Sometimes the directory names I previously browsed are shown
+<Zagor> is it fixed in 1.27 then?
+<dwihno>        no :)
+<Zagor> hehe
+<dwihno>        and the screen garbage haven't been fixed either
+<dwihno>        is there any screen garbage with rockbox?
+<adi|sleep>     ok.. im back
+<adi|sleep>     and pissed
+<adi|sleep>     i cant get my damn archos mounted
+<adi|sleep>     and i dunno hy
+<adi|sleep>     why
+<Zagor> dwihno: there was, until i just fixed it :)
+<Zagor> adi|sleep: that sucks :(
+<adi|sleep>     i don't remember changing anything
+<adi|sleep>     i turn unit on
+<adi|sleep>     i plug in..
+<adi|sleep>     i go to mount
+<adi|sleep>     and i keep getting that sda1 is not a valid block device
+<dwihno>        Zagor: Whoa.... I am really looking forward to the mp3-decoding capable rockbox :D
+*       adi|sleep pouts
+<Zagor> adi|sleep: try removing and re-modprobing usb-storage.
+<Zagor> sometimes it seems to get confused
+<Linus> dwihno: the rockbox is already mp3-decoding
+<Zagor> Linus: dwihno has a recorder...
+<Linus> oh
+-->     PsycoXul (psyco@adsl-63-205-43-243.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> hi psycho!
+<PsycoXul>      hi linhus
+<adi|sleep>     cant locate module usb-storage?
+<dwihno>        Linus: that should explain my curiosity regarding the tech specs of the recorder chip ;)
+<Zagor> adi|sleep: maybe you didn't compile it as a module?
+<adi|sleep>     what i don't get is that it was working last week, and i haven't changed anything
+<adi|sleep>     really
+<adi|sleep>     odd
+<adi|sleep>     how can i check if it was compile as a module?
+<Zagor> run 'lsmod'. if it doesn't show up, it's not a module
+<adi|sleep>     k
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      lsmod just shows loaded modules
+<Linus> dwihno: did you ask me about the recorder chip? I must have missed that in the splitting frenzy.
+<adi|sleep>     k.. its not loaded
+<PsycoXul>      find  /lib/modules/`uname -r` -name 'usb-storage.o'
+<adi|sleep>     any other ideas PsycoXul?
+<dwihno>        Linus: Nah, I was just curious if you started working on the mp3 decoding on the recorder, and you replied you had a look in the tech docs.
+<adi|sleep>     nothing :)
+<Linus> ah
+<PsycoXul>      well whatever modules you have should be in /lib/modules/<kernel-ver>/* 
+<adi|sleep>     k
+<adi|sleep>     ill be back
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jun 11 04:05:11 2002
+
diff --git a/www/irc/rockbox-20020612.log b/www/irc/rockbox-20020612.log
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+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 11 04:10:23 2002
+
+-->     adiamas (~adiamas@216.194.26.64) has joined #rockbox
+---     Topic for #rockbox is Version 1.0 released! http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+---     Topic for #rockbox set by ChanServ at Tue Jun 11 03:31:20
+---     You are now known as adi|home
+<Bagder>        hey adia
+<Bagder>        nice playlsit fix
+<adi|home>      thanks :)
+*       adi|home finally did something productive
+<adi|home>      i figured 255 was a good size...
+<adi|home>      8shrugs*
+<Bagder>        yes, its fine
+<adi|home>      OH MY GOD!
+<adi|home>      rockbox.. on my recorder?!!!
+*       adi|home does backflips
+<Bagder>        does it rock?
+<adi|home>      but the text is _very_ pale
+<adi|home>      dunno yet :)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Linus> adi|home: the paleness is interesting
+<adi|home>      hmm problem thought
+<Linus> did you build it yourself
+<adi|home>      no.. 
+<adi|home>      its the one from the builds off the site
+<adi|home>      i don't have a cross compiler yet
+<Linus> ok
+<Linus> the LCD contrast is an issue in lcd.c
+<adi|home>      and interesting.. it dont play nice with the dc plugged in.
+<Bagder>        Linus: its not that pale on yours is it?
+<Linus> Bagder: no
+<Linus> adi|home: "play nice"?
+<adi|home>      i plug the dc in and it reboots to recharge mode
+<adi|home>      i leave it in
+<adi|home>      and press on, it reboots.. pauses, and jumps back to recharge mode
+<Linus> wow!
+<adi|home>      ?
+<adi|home>      ned to increase logo display time
+<Linus> wow! as in "what the heck"
+<adi|home>      i see it for like 1/10th a sec.. and its gone
+<adi|home>      am i the only person that has had this happ
+<Linus> adi|home: we don't want to show the logo longer time than the setup needs
+<Linus> and right now it displays a little late
+<Bagder>        Linus: why did you move the logo showing to after all the init?
+<adi|home>      got ya.
+<Linus> Bagder: because it tries to load the logo from disk
+<Bagder>        not anymore
+<Linus> i could have put it before the last two calls, and gained a millisecond
+<Bagder>        you can have it after the lcd_init() now, can't you?
+<adi|home>      okay.. off to bed for real :)
+<Bagder>        night adi|home
+<Linus> Bagder: perhaps now, but not when i committed that change
+<Bagder>        then too actually ;-)
+<Linus> oh maybe the commit mail was late
+<Bagder>        my fix was ~40 minutes before yours ;)
+<Linus> :-)
+<Linus> Then move it up!
+<Bagder>        yessir, will do!
+<Bagder>        *done*
+*       Zagor is now officially a counter-strike consultant :)
+*       Bagder hands Zagor the "professional gamer" sticker
+<dwihno>        Check the latest post in the mailing list
+<Zagor> yup, that's cool
+<dwihno>        That URL should be placed on the rockbox site.
+<Zagor> hmm. the "hardware mods" page, maybe?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        or possibly "related projects"
+<dwihno>        Have you seen such a joystick earlier?
+<Zagor> yes, he has mailed about it before
+<dwihno>        mkay
+<dwihno>        One of those would be cute
+<dwihno>        Although pretty useless without a display
+<dwihno>        stop/play/pause/volume perhaps
+<Zagor> you can't have a display without hacking the archos
+<dwihno>        :/
+<dwihno>        well, I guess you can't have everything
+<dwihno>        the official remote from archos, does it have display?
+<Zagor> no
+<Zagor> the remote control plug only has data-in (into the archos) so there is no way to transmit data back to the remote. that's why you can't have a display
+<Zagor> brb
+<--     Zagor has quit ("Client Exiting")
+-->     ironi (ironi@as2-5-7.j.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<ironi> hi
+<ironi> Bagder: there?
+<Bagder>        yah
+<ironi> im working on a small sms thingy
+<ironi> I considered using smash as server and phpsmash as client
+<ironi> is it easy to install and configure?
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        never tried phpsmash
+<Bagder>        smash itself is pretty easy
+<Bagder>        the tricky part is if you want to tweak a plugin or something
+<ironi> wel the plugins you have links toon your page
+<ironi> don't say that they actually are plugins for smash
+<Bagder>        smash uses plugins
+<Zagor> links to plugins?
+<ironi> well yeah
+<ironi> freenet and so on
+<ironi> cause that is what im aiming at
+<ironi> web-based sms services
+<Zagor> yes, the links are to external programs you can call with the "shell" smash plugin
+<ironi> ok
+<ironi> so can you specify plugin to use from the client?
+<ironi> and params to the client
+<Zagor> you can specify which operator to use. the details are defined in the server config
+<ironi> ok
+<ironi> hm
+<ironi> maybe i should use linuxsms for what I am doing
+<ironi> just rebuild it a bit
+<ironi> its not very compliated thing to do
+<Zagor> that's for you to decide :) what do you want to do?
+<ironi> Zagor: a project for my fellow siemens s45/me45 users
+<ironi> im going to make a compiled wml page that they can store in the small file archive on the phone
+<ironi> in it, they will be able to enter username, password and sms number & message
+<ironi> press send and it will send it through the server
+<ironi> just trying it out for fun...
+<ironi> which gives virtually free sms through gprs
+<Zagor> i'd recommend smash for that, since it has proper queueing. you don't want to reinvent that, trust me :)
+<ironi> why not sending messages at once?
+<ironi> Zagor: becuase of the load?
+<Zagor> to save bandwith == money
+<ironi> well
+<Zagor> also many use dialup, so you want to keep down the number of calls
+<ironi> yeah money for the users, you're right
+<ironi> keep down the number of calls...now im not following
+<Zagor> most people use GSM operators' official dial-up SMS servers
+<Bagder>        but ironi isn't
+<Bagder>        he doesn't necessarily need queueing
+<Zagor> i know. but it's still a good idea to queue, to avoid many parallel connections to the service
+<ironi> Zagor: for bandwidth
+<ironi> Zagor: so gsm operators have a number one can call to send sms?
+<Zagor> that, and to avoid getting blocked for over-use...
+<ironi> How expensive is that anyway
+<Zagor> mostly it's priced the same as a mobile call
+<ironi> ok
+<ironi> well
+<ironi> smash.cgf not found
+<ironi> cfg
+<ironi> hm..
+<ironi> oh.
+<Zagor> smashd --config <file>
+<ironi> i see
+<ironi> great commenting in the smash.cfg :-P
+<Zagor> it's a hackers-only file ;)
+<ironi> i put config, smash binarys and plugins in /usr/local/bin/smash
+<ironi> maybe thats politically incorrect
+<ironi> =)
+<Zagor> that's fine
+<ironi> is smashd very resource demanding?
+<Bagder>        no
+<ironi> there it goes, up n running
+<Zagor> the one we have running has spend 2 cpu seconds since june 1st :)
+<ironi> hehe
+<ironi> well
+<ironi> now i need to send messages to it
+<Zagor> ironi: let's go to #smash instead. ok?
+<ironi> maybe easiest to send wml page to a php page, and from the php page sent it to the server
+<Zagor> woobiedooobie. i'm browsing files with Rockbox on my recorder
+<Zagor> the screen update is horrible slow :(
+<dwihno>        :/
+<Bagder>        why is that you think?
+<dwihno>        vsync? :)
+<Zagor> i don't know. i just know when i scroll down, you can see the screen clear and then redraw. and you don't see that with the archos firmware
+<Zagor> and the contrast is waaaay too low
+<Zagor> but WOWSERS the logo is cool! :)
+<Zagor> in fact, it seems Rockbox actually boots faster than the original firmware.
+<dwihno>        :O
+<dwihno>        Zagor: cool stuff
+<dwihno>        Mail the ajz to me :)
+<Zagor> http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/recorder/archos.ajz
+<ironi> now i wish i had a recorder
+<dwihno>        *awating bootup*
+<Zagor> Linus: is lower value higher contrast, or the opposite?
+<Linus> I don't know. I guess higher numbers gives higher contrast
+<Zagor> testing
+<Linus> but it's not that easy
+<Zagor> no?
+<Linus> the contrast setting (according to the solomon data sheet) is an iterative process
+<Zagor> tetris ROCKS! :)
+<Linus> you have to continue setting the contrast until the status resister says it is done
+<Zagor> oh
+<Linus> register
+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 12 00:05:58 2002
diff --git a/www/irc/rockbox-20020613.log b/www/irc/rockbox-20020613.log
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+
+-->     adiamas (~adiamas@216.194.26.204) has joined #rockbox
+---     Topic for #rockbox is Version 1.0 released! http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+---     Topic for #rockbox set by ChanServ at Tue Jun 11 03:31:20
+---     You are now known as adi|home
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<elinenbe>      hello there
+<elinenbe>      here is a little something hard drive mp3 player related...
+<elinenbe>      http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=70&e=4&cid=70&u=/cn/20020612/tc_cn/935202
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        moo
+<adi|home>      AHHHH
+<adi|home>      Bagder: is back!!!
+*       adi|home runs away screaming
+*       Bagder stands tall and watches adiamas run away
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        hey Z
+<Zagor> hey all
+<Zagor> everyone in the office is looking at the world cup... /me can't be bothered.
+*       Bagder agrees
+<Zagor> Bagder: could we change the changelog file to changes-<date>.txt? apparently MSIE refuses to display .log files in the browser. at least I fail.
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        noooo :-)
+<Zagor> for some reason I can't even persuade Opera to do the right thing :(
+<Bagder>        m m m mozilla
+<Zagor> yeah, but there's the rest of the world too :)
+*       Bagder takes up the fight against the world
+<Bagder>        ok, so exactly the same only .txt instead of .log?
+<webmind>       hmm
+<webmind>       isnt that the server ?
+<webmind>       that gives out a wrong mime format?
+<Zagor> no, the mime type is correct. MSIE ignores mime types.
+<webmind>       owh.. jolly :)
+<Zagor> Bagder: yes please
+<Bagder>        coming right up
+<Bagder>        there
+<webmind>       u could make a symlink called: msie-change-<date>.txt
+<webmind>       :)
+<Zagor> works in MSIE now
+<Bagder>        i-am-a-looser-gimme-that-ie-link.txt
+<Zagor> Opera still won't display it. very strange
+<webmind>       opera6?
+<webmind>       opera does weird things
+<Bagder>        Zagor: you should check for .log *or* .txt for now
+<Zagor> ok
+<Bagder>        Zagor: the older ones are still .log
+<Zagor> opera mostly does The Right Thing, sometimes more than you want...
+<webmind>       uhm yeah
+<webmind>       ans sometimes completely not
+<Zagor> don't confuse "won
+<Zagor> ah, never mind
+*       adi|home pokes you in the head
+<adi|home>      so i never got a full answer.. what type of files are accpectable playlist?
+<adi|home>      .m2u?
+<adi|home>      m3u rather
+<Bagder>        .m3u
+<Bagder>        full path names
+<adi|home>      anything else?
+<Bagder>        nope
+<Bagder>        lf or crlf separated
+<adi|home>      right..
+<adi|home>      okay...
+<adi|home>      grrrrr... 2 world cup games on at once.. this is tough
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> hey linus
+<adi|home>      and both games i wanna see :(
+<Linus> moo
+<adi|home>      zag.. did you see the FAQ?
+<adi|home>      I put the stuf in from you /. email
+<adi|home>      wanted to know if things make sense
+<Zagor> adi|home: nice. i'll take a look
+<adi|home>      k
+<adi|home>      let me know if there is anything we're missing
+<Zagor> yup
+<adi|home>      not that i will put it in.. but go ahead and tell me ;)
+<Linus> Zagor: don't you think the FAQ should have the same blue background?
+<adi|home>      id agree
+<adi|home>      if you want.. i can purty it up and put it into html
+<adi|home>      can keep an html and text version if you like
+<Zagor> hmm, i'd like to keep it one file
+<Zagor> i'll try to make a perl hack to format the txt file into a html page
+<adi|home>      if your going to.. can you also toss in an auto index?
+<Zagor> yup
+<adi|home>      all questions will be formated with Q#. on the first left col.
+<Zagor> good
+<adi|home>      so just pull that and then link them to the actual question
+<Zagor> and a clear line btwn questions
+<adi|home>      *nods*
+<adi|home>      all answers are A#. as well
+<adi|home>      and if you are really bored.. ;)
+<adi|home>      you could parse for http lines and make them links ;0
+<Bagder>        he should
+<adi|home>      oh.. and last thing
+<adi|home>      i could _really_ use central air here.. so when ever you want to come over and put it in
+<adi|home>      id be ever so greatful
+<Zagor> A18 should probably not be so Gatesy. wav is uncompressed simple PCM data. you're probably thinking of WMA files?
+<adi|home>      nah.. i wsa just being a dick :)
+<adi|home>      i fix :)
+<Zagor> the answer is good, for WMA
+<Zagor> :)
+<adi|home>      okay.. fixed
+<Linus> I had my Recorder running the gdb stub for almost a whole day yesterday, connected to the charger
+<Linus> and when i switched back to the original firmware, the battery meter was completely screwed up...
+<Zagor> ooh. for starters, or after several minutes too?
+<Linus> it is always empty when i boot it up, and then shows a normal setting
+<Bagder>        weeirdo
+<Linus> and after a while it shows empty again
+<Bagder>        btw, the buttons are too sensitive
+<Zagor> and stays empty?
+<Linus> Zagor: i don't know. I had it in my pocket most of the time
+<Linus> Bagder: bounces?
+<adi|home>      define too sensative
+<Bagder>        possibly, I just noticed that when I wanted to get into a directory
+<Bagder>        I often ended up going down two levels at once
+<Linus> i have the same experience with the player
+<Linus> we need debouncing of some kind
+<Bagder>        yeps
+<Hadaka>        hmm, why do the buttons bounce - does the hardware actually do that?
+<Zagor> yes
+<adi|home>      ahh.. that just may be our timing Bagder
+<Linus> most definitely
+<Zagor> it's a standard problem for all buttons
+<Hadaka>        not on the arcade buttons I've dealt with ;)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Zagor> that's because they added debounce, just like we need to
+<Hadaka>        hardware debounce?
+<Zagor> we have to do it in software
+<Hadaka>        well ok, just as long as it allows me to press a button for 1/60th of a second and still get the press in
+<Zagor> hehe. 60 Hz is quite a heavy load. I'd say 30 is more reasonable
+<Zagor> oh well, we'll just test and adjust
+<Hadaka>        yeah
+<adi|home>      what exactly is debounce?
+<Zagor> detection and suppression of (very) short double-presses
+<adi|home>      ahh.. k
+<Zagor> it's due to there being noise in the button connection, so it sometimes electrically flip-flops several times per intended keypress
+<Linus> adi|home: we compensate for the button bouncing by reading the buttons several times
+<adi|home>      *nods*
+<adi|home>      grrrrr.. screen redraw on th recorder is still not right
+<Zagor> no? what happens?
+<adi|home>      well.. i have a short filename
+<adi|home>      and i have long filenames
+<adi|home>      all is fine till i scroll and bring the short file as the last one on te screen
+<adi|home>      it seems we aren't clearing the line before we draw the new text there
+<adi|home>      so you have remaining garbage
+<Zagor> testing...
+<adi|home>      im tracking it now
+<Bagder>        try to repeat it in the simulator
+<adi|home>      i am now
+<adi|home>      its in the simulator that im getting it
+<Bagder>        aha
+<Zagor> ok
+<adi|home>      what aha?
+<Bagder>        nothing, I just thought you saw in on target
+<Bagder>        s/in/it
+<Zagor> I can't repeat the problem. I have a short file in the last line, no problem
+<adi|home>      you need to have the short file _not_ on the screen to begin with.. hold on.. ill get a screen shot for you
+<Zagor> i didn't. it was song #15
+<adi|home>      ill try a recompile
+<adi|home>      maybe i have an old obj file
+<Zagor> adi|home: Q28 should read "is this legal" not "is that legal"
+<adi|home>      k
+<Zagor> both "that" in Q28 should be "this"
+<Zagor> A29 will fail parsing, since it contains blank lines
+<adi|home>      nope.. still getting it.. hmmm.. ill try and update again.
+<adi|home>      http://orion.ramapo.edu/~rhak/misc/shot.png
+<adi|home>      look at that
+<Zagor> A30 should probably say something like "The first release is called 1.0 because it has a basic working feature set, that works and has no known bugs. That is what 1.0 means."
+<Zagor> adi|home: looking. odd that I can't repeat it.
+<Zagor> ah, got it.
+<Zagor> the previous file has to scroll first, then when I scroll down I get the bug
+<adi|home>      ahh okay
+<adi|home>      so im not insane ;)
+<Zagor> well I wouldn't rule that out just yet...
+<adi|home>      hehehe
+*       Bagder hears noise from the lab
+<Bagder>        there's a tv there
+<Zagor> yeah, sweden scored a goal
+<Bagder>        I suspected that
+<Linus> Yieeehaaaaa!!!!!
+<adi|home>      heheheh 
+<adi|home>      yup
+<adi|home>      just saw replay
+<adi|home>      im watching the rong damn game
+<Zagor> hehe
+<adi|home>      i want to watch england
+<adi|home>      and i want to watch argentina lose
+<Bagder>        wooo, playlist icon
+*       adi|home nods happily
+<adi|home>      we have it, why not use it?
+<adi|home>      FAQ fixed
+<Zagor> yay, neato
+<Bagder>        did anyone try to play a playlist yet?
+*       adi|home is all about 1-3 line code additions ;)
+<adi|home>      hehe nope...
+<Zagor> Bagder: nope :)
+<adi|home>      i don't want my recorder to explode ;)
+<Bagder>        haha
+<adi|home>      if someone gets me a nice new compile ill test it...
+<Bagder>        hehe, the recorder will happily ignore it
+<adi|home>      i havent built my cross compiler yet
+<adi|home>      ahh.. then nope...
+<adi|home>      okay.. bleary eyes.. and im still on call for another 3 hrs.. im off to bed...
+<Bagder>        night adi
+<adi|home>      if you have any toher FAQ changes.. post them.. ill get them in the (my) morning
+<Zagor> looks good for now. thanks!
+<Bagder>        I'm not satisfied with the scroll
+<Zagor> ok?
+<Bagder>        too much blanks
+<Zagor> yes, I agree. looking at that now
+<Bagder>        neato
+<Zagor> when the last char leaves the left side, the first should come in on the right. no "empty line"
+<Zagor> or do you want it even tighter?
+<Bagder>        exactly
+<Bagder>        I could do with just X spaces in between
+<Bagder>        where X would be 2-3 
+<Bagder>        I mean between the last and the first
+<Zagor> i think that might sometimes be confusing, as it wouldn't be obvious where the start is
+<Zagor> i'll do the simple fix first
+<Bagder>        I think it is an improvment as it'll make more text readable at all times
+<webmind>       hmmm
+<webmind>       should any 60gb 2.5" hd work in a jukebox studio ?
+<webmind>       or 40gb
+<Zagor> if it's 9.5mm, yes
+<webmind>       nice..
+<Zagor> just check the power requirements. the toshiba 60gig draws very much power at startup
+<webmind>       hm k
+<webmind>       woulkd take forever to fill though i think
+<Zagor> it's not a problem, but it might make a difference in battery life
+<webmind>       uhuh
+<webmind>       and batterylife is already decreasing
+<Bagder>        Greg Haerr seems to be "mr Microwindows"
+<Zagor> huh?
+<Zagor> oh
+<Zagor> cool
+<Bagder>        yeps
+<Bagder>        heh, Greg is good ;-)
+<Zagor> yeah
+<Zagor> yay, the new server hardware has arrived
+<Bagder>        yay!
+<Zagor> dual Athlon MP 1600+
+<Bagder>        1600MHz, aren't they called 1800 or something?
+<Zagor> ah, yes
+<Zagor> those model names are confusing :)
+<Bagder>        indeed
+<Zagor> uh, my scroll fix didn't look so good on the player...
+<Bagder>        ata_read_sectors() could be renamed to ata_read_sector() I guess and always read one
+<Zagor> nah we'll just fix it instead
+<Bagder>        so you plan to use other than 1 too then
+<Zagor> umm, maybe not. only the fat32 driver uses ata and that always just reads 1.
+<Bagder>        that's my point, if the reading works good today, then we don't need anything else but 1
+<Zagor> agreed
+<Linus> Zagor: does the ATA read sector loop need to poll the DRQ bit for each sector?
+<Zagor> ummm, don't remember
+<Linus> it doesn't today
+<Zagor> let's just skip the loop, we never read more than one anyway
+<Linus> i'm fixing the bug Greg found
+<Linus> we night gain some performance by reading several sectors at once
+<Linus> might
+<Linus> i am a moron
+<Zagor> umm, yes. but our code doesn't...
+<Linus> we do wait for DRQ
+<Linus> I'll just add the buf += 512 and it should work
+<Bagder>        += SECTOR_SIZE
+<Bagder>        right?
+<Linus> yeah
+<Zagor> duh, i suck
+<Bagder>        hey, Anja loved Rockbox... she could play tetris ;-)
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Bagder>        although the not playing music part was a bit hard to explain ;-)
+<Bagder>        "yes, this is an mp3 player but it can't play mp3"
+<Zagor> haha
+<Bagder>        there are three threads right now, isn't it? with the new one being the lcd scroll?
+<Zagor> yes. i'm writing a response to his mail :)
+<Bagder>        goodie
+-->     adam (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
+<adam>  heh
+<adam>  X11 session from one Linux box to the Linux craptop
+<adam>  == amusing
+<adam>  prepped for the great LUG today
+<adam>  :P
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<Bagder>        what LUG is this?
+<adam>  I got a back ache when I brought my massive box last time
+<adam>  heh
+<adam>  a local LUG in Minneapolis
+<adam>  pretty unofficial ;p
+<adam>  we don't even have a website
+<adam>  I think anyone who says Linux has no use on laptops is a total dimwit
+<Zagor> well whay else would you use?
+<adam>  they generally don't require one use some damned 'touchpad' 90% of the time
+<Zagor> nintendo?
+<adam>  I'd generally prefer a big hulking tower for Linux
+<adam>  but I guess two reasons I'm REALLY liking it on this laptop
+<adam>  the network segment Windows 9x basically screwed up totally with the crappy pegasus chipset USB adapter
+<adam>  linux complains, but doesn't die.
+<adam>  which is a huge improvement
+<adam>  second off, this thing is old and slow. Linux makes it very usable. Windows does not.
+<adam>  4:30 AM
+<adam>  my sanity apparently exited when I first moved into x86
+<adam>  moving from a 68000 to a 68040 then to an 800mhz PIII :P
+<Bagder>        amiga?
+<adam>  heh, nope
+<adam>  amusing. running this xmms from a box on the other end of the home, displaying it an xserver on this laptop, then playing the sound via an icecasted stream.
+*       adam needs to become less lazy about setting up NFS
+-->     plmirc (plmirc@152.190.62.62.9massy1-1-ro-bas-1.9tel.net) has joined #Rockbox
+<adam>  hi
+<plmirc>        Hi at all
+<plmirc>        just a very little question
+<plmirc>        hmm...
+<Zagor> sure
+<adam>  why not a big interesting question?
+<plmirc>        why mean the message  ata: -4
+<Bagder>        it means you're using old software ;-)
+<Zagor> it means the ata code bugs for recorder
+<plmirc>        I'm too hurry ?
+<Zagor> try the latest daily build
+<plmirc>        it is this one I tried
+<Linus> plmirc: what kind of recorder do you have?
+<plmirc>        archos20020612.ajz 
+<plmirc>        I have the 10 G version
+<Zagor> which recorder model do you have?
+<Bagder>        *plopp*
+<Linus> i think we have found our man!
+<Zagor> interesting! we have only tested with recorder20 so far. you can help!
+<plmirc>        oupsss
+<Linus> plmirc: you are our hero!
+<plmirc>        ciao !!!
+<Bagder>        our man
+<plmirc>        really ?
+<adam>  heh
+<plmirc>        but why  explain me !
+<Linus> yes! we have been looking for a guy with an older recorder
+<plmirc>        YEAH !!!!!!!! If I can help you the first enjoyed !!
+<Linus> plmirc: are you willing to try a test version?
+<plmirc>        YEAH !!!!!!!! If I can help you, I'm the first enjoyed !!
+<adam>  ...
+<plmirc>        Yes I want !
+<Linus> hang on...
+<plmirc>        what do you want I do ?
+<Linus> can I mail it to you?
+<plmirc>        y orginal firmware is the 1.24
+<plmirc>        yes
+<plmirc>        My mail is
+<adam>  oh well.
+*       adam hits the hay
+<adam>  good night
+<plmirc>        p_lm@hotmail.com
+<Linus> night
+<--     adam has quit ("[BX] Reserve your copy of BitchX-1.0c19 for the Atari 2600 today!")
+<Zagor> night adam
+<plmirc>        night
+<Linus> ok, plmirc. Hang on.
+<plmirc>        I wnat to say before continue that I really love your idea to create an open firmware for the archos mp3 player/recorder
+<plmirc>        And i really really want to encourage you !!
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<plmirc>        The World is needed men like you !!!
+<Zagor> hehe. thanks
+<Linus> thanks!
+<plmirc>        excuse my english....
+<Zagor> where are you from?
+<plmirc>        I'm french
+<Zagor> ok
+<plmirc>        and you ? 
+<Zagor> we (the core team) are swedish
+<plmirc>        Congratulation for your football demonstration !!
+<Zagor> but there are english, french and american contributors too
+<Zagor> hehe, yeah they seem to be happy about it :) I'm not much into football myself.
+<Linus> Go Sweden Go!
+<plmirc>        every body is into football when it is the world cup .. isn't it ?
+<Linus> plmirc: i have mailed the test code
+<Zagor> well some of us prefer hacking :)
+<plmirc>        oki
+<Linus> plmirc: but i'm not sure how it works, i accidentally included some other non-working changes...
+<plmirc>        I check my mail box right now
+<Linus> (the MAS3587F code)
+<plmirc>        yeah i have it
+<Linus> good luck, and be careful out there... :-)
+<plmirc>        there is a big bad virus in that  ??
+<Linus> :-)
+<plmirc>        no i'm kidding
+<plmirc>        but why it is so small
+<Linus> surprised?
+<plmirc>        the official has a double size
+<Linus> well, we are not done yet.
+<plmirc>        Are you limited by the size ?
+<Linus> The limit is about 250Kb I believe
+<plmirc>        I connect my archos mp3 recorder 10 G version
+<Linus> but we don't know for sure
+<Linus> *boooom*
+<plmirc>        I copy your file....
+*       Bagder awaits
+<Linus> (drum roll)
+<plmirc>        yes i looked for this word, thx ! ;)
+<plmirc>        and.......
+<plmirc>        and .....
+<plmirc>        and ..
+<Bagder>        *silence*
+<plmirc>        ok i deconnect and turn it off now
+<Zagor> the suspense is KILLING me! :-)
+<Linus> even more that the football game
+<Zagor> and to think people found the world cup match exciting
+<plmirc>        hmmmm
+<Linus> than
+<Linus> don't say that
+<plmirc>        rockbox vs cvs is on the screen this time during a longer time
+<plmirc>        and yes i can now view all my files
+<Linus> YIPPIE!!!!
+<Bagder>        *kewl*
+<plmirc>        what are you changing ?
+<Zagor> YAY
+<plmirc>        what did you change ?
+<Linus> The address encoding of the ATA registers is different in your version
+<Bagder>        so we need to autodetect that somehow
+<Linus> I suspected this, and you made it possible to verify
+<Linus> You saved my day!
+<plmirc>        I can go in and out directory whith ouot any problem !
+<plmirc>        Good Job !
+<Linus> Don't try to play anything...
+<Bagder>        plmirc: now press the menu key and play tetris ;-)
+<plmirc>        oki
+<plmirc>        it is possible ?
+<Linus> yes
+<plmirc>        no i don't beleive it
+<Linus> no, playing mp3 is not possible
+<plmirc>        let's try ...
+<Linus> yet
+<Linus> OK. now we need a way to autodetect this
+<plmirc>        YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH  OU OU OU OU OU YEAHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT IS WORKING I PLKAY TETRIS ON MY ARCHOS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
+<Zagor> plmirc: press a menu key, then you can play tetris
+<plmirc>        WOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU §!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
+<Linus> maybe we can do the same as the master/slave detection?
+*       Bagder laughs
+<plmirc>        YES UES YES YES YES YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
+<Zagor> Linus: what is the difference?
+<plmirc>        ou !!!
+<plmirc>        whowww !! it is fast
+<plmirc>        yeah !!!!!!!!!!! 
+<plmirc>        it marvellous !!!
+<plmirc>        I love it
+<plmirc>        I made 0 line but I love it !
+<Linus> Zagor: what do you mean?
+<Zagor> what's the difference in ATA adressing?
+<Linus> The CONTROL/ALT_STATUS is at 0x61000306 in older versions, 0x61000206 in newer
+<Linus> How lame
+<Zagor> and it doesn't work to adress 306 in newer versions?
+<Linus> no.
+<Zagor> :(
+<Linus> I wonder why they have changed the address encoding in only one specific version?
+<Zagor> rec20 is obviously a major update
+<Linus> They must have screwed up
+<Linus> I mean, why have it at 206 in Player, change it to 306 in the recorder10, only to change it back in recorder20???
+<Linus> plmirc: can you be around for more tests in the future?
+<Zagor> ah, you're right
+<Zagor> I wonder what the recorder6 has
+<Linus> 306 i guess
+<Linus> the difference is probably only the HD
+<Zagor> yse
+<Zagor> yes
+<plmirc>        linus: yes I' ll be
+<Linus> good. we need you
+<Linus> Zagor: do you think we should autodetect or configure?
+<Zagor> i'm not sure
+<Zagor> it's a fourth target...
+*       Bagder hrmpfs
+<Linus> if it's only the ATA I think we should autodetect
+<Zagor> still, if we auto-detect this why wouldn't we auto-detect the player lcd?
+<plmirc>        just a little question.. again.. but songs can be played on the player version and not on the recorder version.... it will take a long time before recorder can play song too ?? Are you near of this result  with recorder version ?
+<Linus> I wonder if there are players around with 306 addressing=?
+<Linus> plmirc: it's not far away
+<Zagor> I think we'd have heard about that
+<plmirc>        oki thx linus
+<Zagor> Bagder: was that hrmpf an opinion of some sort?
+<Linus> Zagor: their firmware use variables for the ATA register addresses
+<Zagor> yes of course. and for lcd function pointers
+<Linus> "of course"?
+<Bagder>        Zagor: yes, I'd prefer autodetect of the ATA
+<Zagor> so should we then autodetect the lcd too?
+<Bagder>        not necessarily
+<Zagor> ...since?
+<Linus> no we can't autodetect the lcd
+<Bagder>        the lcd differences are so huge
+<Zagor> sure we can, just like the stock firmware does
+<Linus> ah, the ond/new player lcd
+<Linus> old
+<Bagder>        ah, that
+<Zagor> yes
+<Linus> i thought you meant the recorder.....
+<Bagder>        me too ;-)
+<Bagder>        I could very well have an player-LCD auto detect too, yes
+<Linus> that would be nice
+<plmirc>        There is an  other function which can be interesting, but maybe it is too early to think about it right now, can I tell it to you now or I have to wait before speaking about new function ?
+<Linus> shoot!
+<plmirc>        shoot ?
+<Zagor> go ahead and tell us
+<plmirc>        ok
+<plmirc>        sometimes when I'm listening a song I want to listen an other one in a other directory just after the ont which playing
+<plmirc>        it is possible to select the next song which will be playing during an other song is playing ?
+<plmirc>        it is like a playlist but in real time
+<plmirc>        I don't know if you know what I mean ?
+<plmirc>        and if you think it is really interesting ?
+<Linus> Like the queue option in the Archos firmware?
+<plmirc>        yes but during a song is playing
+<plmirc>        not pre-determinated like a winamp playlist song
+<Linus> Tha Archos firmware has exactly that, so I want that for Rockbox as well
+<Zagor> yeah, that will probably come sooner or later
+<plmirc>        it is like when your listen a mp3 whith winamp and you select the next dropping the file in the queue
+<plmirc>        well.. it was the idea of the day, if you need me just call me...
+<plmirc>        going to sleep... but my computer stay online
+---     plmirc is now known as plmirczzZZ
+<Linus> night
+<Zagor> Linus: is the mutex atomic?
+<Linus> probably not
+<Linus> why?
+<Zagor> i was thinking about what greg said. since we use the queue code from both threads and interrupts, shouldn't the mutex be interrupt protected?
+<Linus> the queue code doesn't use the mutex
+<Zagor> ah, ok then
+<Linus> it disables the irq
+<Zagor> good
+---     Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
+---     plmirczzZZ is now known as plmirc|zzZZ
+---     Linus is now known as Linus|meeting
+---     Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor
+<--     dwihno|gone has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+<Bagder>        brb
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+---     plmirc|zzZZ is now known as plmirc
+<plmirc>        I just wake up and I made a dream.. I play Tetris on my archos with an other opposant through usb cable, it will be possible ?
+<Zagor> no, usb is out of our control
+<plmirc>        snif :'(
+<Zagor> it is only for harddisk access
+<plmirc>        there is the digital IN/out port !!!!
+<Zagor> yes, it's a little boring
+<Zagor> yes but that's only for sound data. we can't access it directly either
+<plmirc>        i know it is possible to have information from ear port
+<Zagor> no, only to the port. not from.
+<plmirc>        it is the way of remote control
+<Zagor> yes, but it's only one-way
+<plmirc>        hummm ok.... hmmm . there 's any port again...
+<plmirc>        :'( one-way, no way...
+<plmirc>        yeah !!! I found !!!!!!!!
+<plmirc>        why not use the line-in port for the one-way information and the ear port for the other-way information ???
+<Zagor> the ear port is the only port we can control. line is directly connected to the sound chip
+<plmirc>        dawn !!!
+<plmirc>        shit !!
+<Zagor> now now, no foul languange necessary
+<plmirc>        sorry... :p
+<Bagder>        Zagor: so when's the server upgrade happening?
+<Zagor> i'm thinking about doing it tomorrow morning, to minimise the impact
+<Bagder>        sounds wise
+-->     jedix (~liam@fwott1-1.cis.ec.gc.ca) has joined #rockbox
+<--     plmirc has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<elinenbe>      I was jsut reading thorough the logs.my recorder firmware is 1.17ia.  I still get the ATA error with the dail builds
+<Bagder>        elinenbe: what recorder type?
+<Zagor> elinenbe: the new ata code isn't in the daily yet. it was just a test.
+<elinenbe>      it ia a recorder 6GB
+<Bagder>        elinenbe: yes, that once will need a fix
+<Bagder>        that one
+<elinenbe>      have you figured out the problem with this version?
+<Zagor> ok, so at least we know 6 and 10 are the same
+<Bagder>        yes
+<elinenbe>      send me the firmware and I will try it out.
+<Bagder>        Zagor: do you have any good idea on how to autodetect?
+<Zagor> we could probably do something in the line of our master/slave detect. test the two addresses and see who responds correctly
+<Zagor> elinenbe: are you prepared to test?
+<elinenbe>      I am always prepared.
+<elinenbe>      I am using chatzilla here though, so I have no DCC transfers.
+<Zagor> no problem, i'm putting it on the web server
+<elinenbe>      you have to support the OSS movement.
+<Zagor> the force is strong with you... :)
+<elinenbe>      I see the change logs have added a CR or a LF to the end.  This makes windows users happy.
+<Bagder>        actually, the extension was changed and that's the only diff ;-)
+<Zagor> it's just silly windows browsers that care about filenames instead of mime types
+<elinenbe>      true.  It was changed from .log to .txt
+<elinenbe>      that is some stupid shit
+<Zagor> that is msie for you...
+<elinenbe>      just tell me when it [the recorder firmware] is up on the web page.  I will go to town with it.
+<Bagder>        it doesn't play any music yet though ;-)
+<elinenbe>      understandable... who needs to play mp3s anyway
+<Zagor> tetris works, that's all you need :)
+<elinenbe>      true.
+<Zagor> http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/recorder/ajbrec.ajz
+<Zagor> go go go
+<Zagor> noooo, won't work. stop
+<Zagor> now
+<Zagor> my fingers are quicker than my brain :)
+<elinenbe>      so, should I try it?
+<Zagor> yes
+<Zagor> i'll try it on my rec20 too
+<Zagor> works for me. how about you?
+*       Bagder crosses his fingers
+<elinenbe>      Paraguay is now up 3-1 on Slovenia -- 3 goals in the 2nd half
+<elinenbe>      "ata: -4"
+<elinenbe>      :(
+<Bagder>        ough
+<Zagor> hmm, ok new version. try again.
+<Bagder>        was that an autodetect attempt?
+<Zagor> yes
+<Zagor> worked for me, but I set one bit wrong
+<elinenbe>      on the player why dont you use the up down buttons to scroll through the directory?  and the left right to go into/ out of the directory.
+<elinenbe>      it seems more logical
+<Zagor> because it doesn't have up and down buttons.
+<Zagor> people have used left/right (which are actually called -/+) for ages, they will scream bloody murder if we change that
+<Zagor> look at the comparison and you'll see the player doesn't use the same cursor navigation concept as the recorder
+<elinenbe>      true.  I forgot.  I used to have a player, but I got one of the first recorders.
+<Zagor> Linus|meeting: what were the addresses? you said 0x06100306 and 0x06100206 but the "old" code uses 0x06200206
+<Zagor> this last version gives me an ata: -4 too
+-->     edx (OKE60@pD9EAB833.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<edx>   hi
+<Bagder>        hey
+<elinenbe>      hey there.
+<edx>   *fixing win32 code finally now..*
+<Bagder>        coolio
+*       elinenbe starts yelling "E-D-X" at the top of his lungs and wakes the neightbors!
+<edx>   lol
+<elinenbe>      after scrolling and playlist are added, just the playmodes need to be added and we almost have equal functionality to the original player!
+<elinenbe>      that is quite impressive.
+<Zagor> yeah, it's gone quickly
+<edx>   heh has Archos ever contacted you Bjorn?
+<Zagor> not about rockbox, no
+<edx>   hehe
+<edx>   whether they even know..?
+<Zagor> they wanted my help developing the multimedia jukebox last summer, though...
+<edx>   cool
+<elinenbe>      are you serious?
+<elinenbe>      did you help?
+<edx>   this multimedia thing rocks.
+<edx>   how come they chose you? :)
+<elinenbe>      that multimedia thing has been delayed more than 6 months!
+<Zagor> yup. but they bailed out when they saw my hourly rates :)
+<edx>   lol
+<Zagor> they had seen my "dissecting the archos" page and the linux driver
+<edx>   ah
+<elinenbe>      well, at least they know where to look
+<elinenbe>      myabe they should have highered someone who request higher rates.
+<Zagor> hehe
+<elinenbe>      there stuff is "quite" buggy
+<elinenbe>      I dont have a player so I have yet to test the recent functionality, but have you heard of any crashes -- (as inthe archos crashes where you have no clue what is going on)
+<Zagor> no, we've had very little problems
+<elinenbe>      that is quite excellent.
+<Bagder>        I suspect that it isn't being used very heavily yet
+<Zagor> yes, that's nice. we found and nailed a rather nasty bug just before release, so we've had a bit of luck too
+<Bagder>        when the playlists come, I think that'll improve
+<Zagor> yup
+<elinenbe>      I was wondering if you would be able to have a "high-activity" buffering mode and a "low-activity" buffer mode?
+<Zagor> are they playlists ready for random, bagder?
+<Zagor> elinenbe: why?
+<Bagder>        Zagor: yes they are prepared, the code is all there
+<elinenbe>      by that I mean you can have redundant disk reads? like if you are running with the player.
+<Zagor> we'll have to do lots of testing first, to see how (and even if) we can improve skipping
+<elinenbe>      then it could read the disk more often... and verify the data or try and reread the data, or just struggle with whatever data it is reading
+<Zagor> Bagder: can we randomise the playlist while playing it?
+<elinenbe>      what will happen on the player if I shake the hell out of it while it is playing... for a few minutes?
+<Zagor> (sorry haven't read the code very thoroughly)
+<Bagder>        Zagor: sure
+<Zagor> elinenbe: i don't know :)
+<Zagor> Bagder: so if I add a "randomize" entry to the menu, we're pretty much set?
+<Bagder>        Zagor: pretty much, we might want one option to toggle "shuffle" and perhaps another one for reshuffle
+-->     plmirc (plmirc@152.190.62.62.9massy1-1-ro-bas-1.9tel.net) has joined #Rockbox
+<Zagor> Bagder: umm, how do we turn off random?
+---     plmirc is now known as plmirc|zzZZ
+<Bagder>        uh
+<Bagder>        ;-)
+<Bagder>        we'd need to reload the playlist
+<Bagder>        to get the correct order back
+<Zagor> well, we don't have to support "un-randomizing" right now
+<edx>   hmm Bagder...
+<Bagder>        yes?
+<edx>   Bagder: lcd_init..what's that
+<edx>   I cant use that :P
+<Zagor> starting the scroll thread
+<edx>   ah ok
+<edx>   then i can..
+<edx>   sorry ;)
+<Zagor> hehe
+<elinenbe>      I think in time a "The" filter should be added in...
+<edx>   what are the params of create_thread.... ?
+<elinenbe>      where files that start with "The" the "The" is ignored...
+<Bagder>        create_thread(void* fp, void* sp, int stk_size)
+<Bagder>        function pointer, stack pointer, stack size
+<edx>   hmm ok
+<Zagor> elinenbe: hehe
+<Bagder>        we need a generic "filter" to present song names shorter
+<Bagder>        I might have a go at someting like that soonish
+<Zagor> it's an 1.2 feature anyway
+<Bagder>        yeah
+<Bagder>        but even 1.2 features need to be written ;-)
+<Zagor> hehe, yup
+<edx>   Bagder.. what do you do with the stack pointer?
+<Bagder>        nothing
+<edx>   good
+<edx>   me neither lol
+<Bagder>        ;-)
+<Bagder>        pthreads usually have 2MB stack anyway
+<edx>   i use the stk_size variable though...
+<Bagder>        don't
+<edx>   what is init_threads supposed to do btw.. (why not?)
+<Bagder>        you're likely to use more stack than the target
+<edx>   ok
+<Bagder>        so the stack size will be tuned for target performance and may not be good enogh for hsot
+<edx>   hmmm with the linux simulator.. dont you get "mpeg_play undefined" or something like that?
+<Bagder>        no
+<edx>   ah
+<edx>   ok i see
+<Bagder>        I have a stub for it
+<edx>   you defined it
+<edx>   (ill just copy..)
+<Bagder>        there's a init_threads() too in the x11 sim
+<edx>   and then.. whats yield?
+<Bagder>        yield is: "now, someone else might want to run a while"
+<Bagder>        we have cooperative multitasking
+<edx>   aha
+<Bagder>        each thread must themselves let go
+<edx>   uhmm... where is it defined (and do i need a stub for it?)
+<Bagder>        you implement the thread layer
+<Bagder>        you need to provide yield
+<edx>   aha
+<edx>   i still dont get what its supposed to do
+<Bagder>        edx: you should make sure that only one thread at a time is running
+<edx>   and where is it defined for the target?
+<Bagder>        and when the thread calls yield(), another thread may start executing
+<edx>   ok.. start or continue?
+<Bagder>        yield() is in kernel.c
+<edx>   k
+<Bagder>        continue
+<Bagder>        create_thread() starts threads
+<Bagder>        all threads must call yield()
+<edx>   ok no problem then.
+<edx>   is there a stop_thread or somehting alike?
+<Bagder>        only when a thread calls yield will any other thread get to run
+<Linus|meeting> No
+---     Linus|meeting is now known as Linus
+<Bagder>        no stopping of threads, no
+<edx>   and why not? :)
+<Bagder>        we don't need it
+<edx>   (the scroll thread is always running..?.. yes)
+<Bagder>        if the need ever comes up, we'll add it
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Linus> Watch my new cool commit
+*       Bagder switches to his rockboxcvs box
+<Bagder>        now come to papa
+<Bagder>        coolness
+<Bagder>        now, does it work? ;-)
+<Zagor> Linus: bah, mine is a lot smaller
+<Zagor> but it still doesn't work.
+<Bagder>        haha
+<Linus> Mine works
+<Zagor> for rec6?
+<Linus> yes
+<Linus> oh, sorry, i havent tried that
+<Zagor> give it to elinenbe
+<Linus> does he have a 0x306 box?
+<Zagor> rec6, yes
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        elinenbe: here?
+<Zagor> why would the data stay on the bus when we have read lots of instructions inbetween the accesses?
+<Linus> so you know that rec6 has 0x306 address encoding?
+<elinenbe>      I am here.
+<Zagor> at gives ata: -4 anyway, which indicates it
+<elinenbe>      but leaving for class soon
+<elinenbe>      I have a rec6
+<Linus> because we don't execute code behind the ATA buffers
+<Bagder>        elinenbe, pick a recorder version here http://storebror.haxx.se/archos/
+<elinenbe>      Badger: that version works.
+<Linus> Zagor: it is not about data staying on the CPU data bus, it's about data staying on the ATA bus
+<Bagder>        *ding*
+<Bagder>        neato
+<elinenbe>      I can scroll through the songs!
+<elinenbe>      great!
+<Zagor> nicers
+<elinenbe>      that is nice.
+<Bagder>        coolers boys
+<Zagor> i still think we should combine the master/slave and version check :)
+<Zagor> linus version is bloooooated ;)
+<Bagder>        haha
+<Linus> What is bloated about it?
+<Bagder>        he still has 1 - 0 for making it work ;-)
+<Zagor> just kidding, i did it like this:
+<Zagor>     /* check for master/slave on both control addresses */
+<Zagor>     for ( control_addr = (void*)ATA_CONTROL_ADDR1;
+<Zagor>           control_addr !=(void*)ATA_CONTROL_ADDR2;
+<Zagor>           control_addr = (void*)ATA_CONTROL_ADDR2 ) {
+<Zagor> that brings down the change to about 10 lines
+<elinenbe>      nice.  can you get the scrolling faster?  :)
+<Zagor> elinenbe: go into the menu and set the speed yourself
+<elinenbe>      well, laters.  congradualtion on the fine effort.
+<edx>   what does create_thread return on failure / success?
+<Bagder>        I want page down/up in three browser
+<elinenbe>      very nicely done.
+<Bagder>        tree
+<Zagor> Bagder: yes, but that requires multiple keys which we don't support yet
+<elinenbe>      how about how soon it scrolls?  -- like as soon as you put the curson on the filename.
+<Linus> gotta go. bye!
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Bagder>        see ya Linus
+<Zagor> elinenbe: that can't be changed yet
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<elinenbe>      I think a highly configuralbe firmware with some good default options will be awesome.
+<Zagor> yep. it's called Rockbox :)
+<elinenbe>      much like the iriver/riovolt 250 firmwares...
+<elinenbe>      well, you know what I mean... options for everything.
+<Zagor> i know
+<edx>   When one thread is started (begin_thread).. then all other threads are suspended, right?
+<elinenbe>      the first level of tetris is too fast :)
+<elinenbe>      hehe...
+<elinenbe>      later.
+<Zagor> edx: yes
+<Zagor> that's how it should be
+<edx>   ok
+<edx>   Zagor: what does beginthread return on success / failure?
+<Bagder>        it doesn't fail
+<Zagor> beginthread? that's not in the api is it?
+<Bagder>        no
+<edx>   mine can fail.
+<Bagder>        then it can exit ;-)
+<Zagor> Xlib: sequence lost (0x10000 > 0xc5) in reply type 0x0!
+<Zagor> i still get a lot of X errors, bagder
+<Zagor> X error in rockboxui:
+<Zagor> X Error of failed request:  0
+<Zagor>   Major opcode of failed request:  0 ()
+<Zagor>   Serial number of failed request:  0
+<Zagor>   Current serial number in output stream:  197
+<Bagder>        weird I didn't get them at all yesterday
+<Zagor> try running it remotely, that might trigger it
+<Zagor> or else it's my starwin32 that's fooling around
+<Bagder>        I can't right now, my X redirect is messed up
+<Zagor> ok
+<Zagor> also I get an X beep for every keypress I do. very odd.
+<Bagder>        righ, I get that too at home
+<Bagder>        no idea why
+<edx>   jipie! reduced errors to one...
+<Bagder>        way to go
+<edx>   not with this one
+<edx>   *done*
+<Bagder>        cool, you are fast
+<Bagder>        will you remove the intptr_t from dir.h too?
+<Zagor> and the .rc file
+<edx>   ... the rc file.. that was your mistake i think.. it had always been in the cvs...
+<Bagder>        but it doesn't compile
+<Bagder>        see Gary's mail
+<edx>   *great* why not?
+<edx>   i will...
+<edx>   in a sec
+<Bagder>        Greg's mail of course
+*       Bagder writes "Gary is not Greg" a 100 times
+<edx>   hehe
+*       edx didnt even notice you switched names ;)
+<Bagder>        hehe
+*       edx writes it 50 times
+<edx>   is scrolling used on the player?
+<Zagor> yes
+<edx>   when?
+<Zagor> i'm working on a better scroll, though
+<edx>   ... i would like to see scrolling... it doesnt scroll :)
+<Bagder>        it should scroll
+<Zagor> short names don't scroll. find a long filename
+<edx>   folder name.. ?
+<Zagor> file or folder
+<edx>   (long folder name wont scroll.. :()
+<Zagor> then it's a bug
+<Zagor> actually i found a bug with that. names only 1 char too long don't scroll.
+<Zagor> the length calculation was wrong
+<edx>   uhm its much longer.. rather a uisw bug ;)
+<Zagor> oh, doh, i forgot what you were working on :)
+<edx>   ok that sucks... the thread suspends itself :/
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<edx>   not funny :P
+<jedix> whats new?
+<Zagor> we got the ata code working on all recorders now
+<edx>   it wont scroll!
+<edx>   scroll_count stays 0.. also for folders :/
+<Bagder>        it scrolls on target
+<Bagder>        and in the X11 simulator
+<edx>   apps.. main.c needs to include thread.h for init_threads
+<edx>   main.c .. init must return a value
+<Bagder>        it must?
+<edx>   dont know.. vc says it must
+<Bagder>        right
+<Bagder>        should be a void
+<edx>   noo...
+<edx>   whats this
+<edx>   ah ok
+<edx>   recorder scrolls, too?
+<Bagder>        yes
+<edx>   (no, not on the simulator :/)
+<Bagder>        is too ;-)
+<edx>   bah
+<edx>   lol
+<edx>   how do i pop up the menu again :/
+<Bagder>        Zagor: you added any randomize menu?
+<Zagor> not yet, working on Scroller++ :)
+<Bagder>        edx: the -
+<edx>   (wont work)
+<edx>   what's all this lol
+<Bagder>        I'll go home, see ya later
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<edx>   why wont the menu show up??!
+<Zagor> you must press F1 now, not F2 or F3
+<edx>   ok
+<Zagor> that is: you must press /, not * or -
+<edx>   ahhh
+<edx>   thanks
+<edx>   ok scrolling works in the menu!
+<edx>   not whilke browsing though
+<Zagor> weird
+<Zagor> add a debugf() in scroll_thread to see that it's running properly
+<edx>   pah who wokrs with debugf.. breakpoint there ... it works ;)
+<Zagor> haha
+<edx>   scroll_count
+<edx>   that is 0...
+<edx>   hmm
+<edx>   lcd_puts_scroll sets it to 1...
+<edx>   now that's weird.
+<edx>   uhm
+<edx>   its 0 again... for some reason.. uhm.. well ill debug a little
+<edx>   why is lcd_stop_scroll called directly before putsscroll?
+<edx>   that's not wonder at all ... stop_scroll sets it to 0 again!
+<Zagor> because stop_scroll restores the line. the next putsscroll starts scrolling on another line
+<edx>   hmmhm
+<edx>   but its called over and over again
+<edx>   (tree.c ln 366)
+<Zagor> you have an old tree.c 366 is the last return
+<edx>   oh lol
+<edx>   ...
+<edx>   but there, too, lcd_stop_scroll is called over and over again
+<--     plmirc|zzZZ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<Zagor> where?
+<Zagor> it's called once per screen update
+<edx>   ln 366... whats that
+<edx>   hum?
+<Zagor> 366 is "return false;"
+<edx>   i just updated.. (i even deleted the whole folder and checked out again)
+<edx>   strange.
+<Zagor> uh, lemme check
+<Zagor> it's my version that's different. let me check it in.
+<Zagor> now
+<Zagor> also grab the new lcd.c
+<edx>   k
+<edx>   uhm.. its always set to 0 again :/
+<Zagor> strange. well it works in target and x11 simulator...
+<edx>   hah! setting scroll speed to 1.. then it works LOL
+<edx>   scroll_speed/2 .. that does not work according to c... for scroll_speed = 1 (1/2 = 0)
+<Zagor> yes, don't use scroll_speed=1
+<edx>   thats the only number it works for lol
+<Zagor> eh? make it better :)
+<edx>   it's set to 0 (by scroll_stop) before the scroll function is called - how can this work whereever else..?
+<Zagor> no, scroll_count is set to 0. not speed.
+<edx>   ok
+<edx>   whatever.
+<edx>   still... why?
+<Zagor> well there's a difference :)
+<Zagor> because by setting it to 0 the scroll stops
+<edx>   great.
+<edx>   then it stopsstopsstops ...
+<edx>   line 366 is called more than 10 times a sec...
+<edx>   is that correct?
+<Zagor> 366 is "return false;"
+<edx>   *crying...*
+<edx>           lcd_stop_scroll();
+<edx>   that's what it is
+<Zagor> no, i don't get that called other than when the screen is scrolled or the cursor is moved
+<Zagor> where is it called from?
+<edx>   ok.. now it is return false; (done another update)
+<Zagor> returns?
+<edx>   still.. it wont scroll...
+<Zagor> it's void. what are you doing?
+<edx>   now its line 359 i am talking about
+<edx>   tree.c ln 359
+<edx>   is always called :(
+<Zagor> check your button_get. if the argument is true, it's not supposed to return until you press a key.
+<Zagor> that's probably it
+<edx>   ahhhhhhh
+<edx>   thats OF COURSE it ;)
+<Zagor> ok, good!
+<edx>   who did put that argument in there?
+<Zagor> i did
+<edx>   i am sorry for bothering you all the time.. :)
+<Zagor> that was last week, i think. looong ago :)
+<Zagor> no problem :)
+<edx>   now thats your own fault!
+<edx>   hehe
+<Zagor> i have to rush. see you tomorrow!
+<--     Zagor has quit ("Client Exiting")
+<edx>   YEAY!
+*       edx got scroll to work!
+-->     dwihno|gone (dwihno@Bald067.Baldakinen.Umea.SE) has joined #rockbox
+---     edx is now known as edx|away
+-->     Bagder2 (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<edx|away>      Bagder2: are you the "real" Bagder? lol
+<Bagder2>       noooo, I'm 100% fake ;-)
+<edx|away>      was that ironi? lol if not then who are you :)
+<Bagder2>       you should recognize that I use the same host pattern as always
+<Bagder2>       should be an indication
+<Bagder2>       so yes, its me
+<edx|away>      in windows i can only see that if i really want to (and I had a look at it and rcognized name etc were correct.. but you can never be sure ;))
+<edx|away>      got scrolling to work on the simulator
+<Bagder2>       cool
+<Bagder2>       I noticed your commits
+<edx|away>      was just teh button_get function which did not work for 1st argument = true
+<edx|away>      hm.. gotta eat something... be right back
+---     edx|away is now known as edx|eats
+<Bagder2>       http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/daily.shtml
+<adi|work>      edx i wanted to say.. good work on the windows side mate...
+<edx|eats>      adi.. thanks :)
+---     edx|eats is now known as edx
+<adi|work>      as for you Bagder2... well... atleast your swedish ;)
+<adi|work>      has anyone else been really helping you?
+<Bagder2>       edx, you should check the compile status page after you commit stuff... it broke again
+<Bagder2>       fixed now
+<edx>   ouh.. what was it?
+<Bagder2>       different init protos in apps/main.c
+<edx>   himhum.. think i fixed that (?)
+<Bagder2>       yes, you fixed it for the simulator
+<Bagder2>       and broke all non-sims ;-)
+<Bagder2>       6 red boxes
+<edx>   ok... very sorry for that.. didnt know there was one for each (sim/target)
+<Bagder2>       no worries
+<edx>   next time i'll have a look at it
+<Bagder2>       I just meant that as an advice
+<edx>   .. and it's a good one ;)
+<edx>   didnt know it would update that fast.. that's really cool what you did there :D
+<Bagder2>       it updates every 20 minutes if there are changes done
+*       Bagder2 bows
+*       edx applauds
+*       Bagder2 likes Björns scroll-fix
+<adi|work>      that scroll does look good
+<adi|work>      okay, who broke the sim?
+<adi|work>      i can't get into the menu anymore
+<adi|work>      for the recorder
+<--     Bagder2 has quit (card.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
+-->     jester (~snortboy@216.33.101.146) has joined #rockbox
+<--     jester has quit (Client Quit)
+-->     Bagder2 (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<--     webmind has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+-->     webmind (webmind@seal.student.utwente.nl) has joined #rockbox
+<--     Bagder2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<jedix> adi| whats your problem with the scroll?
+<adi|work>      noting.. i like the scroll
+<adi|work>      but the sim for some reason, doesnt' bring up the menu anymore...
+<adi|work>      for the recorder
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+-->     Coug (sometime@1Cust221.tnt1.coeur-dalene.id.da.uu.net) has joined #rockbox
+<Coug>  does anyone know how to install an archos driver when it says "you do not have sufficient security priveleges to install this hardware" in windows 2000
+<Coug>  yes.... I did get permission
+<edx>   press /
+<edx>   ... adi
+<edx>   for the menu
+<--     jedix has quit ("Mozilla party!")
+-->     g003y (~g003y@dynamic-195-63.hotwired.com) has joined #rockbox
+<g003y> woo... busy today :D
+<--     g003y (~g003y@dynamic-195-63.hotwired.com) has left #rockbox
+<--     edx has quit ("good night")
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+-->     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        hey
+<Linus> cuckoo!
+<Bagder>        the builds went red again, but I got to turn them green ;-)
+<adi|work>      aren't the sim for the recorders supposed to go into menu when you hit '*'?
+<Linus> red builds. oh my god!
+<adi|work>      cause it seems it does it on '/' now.
+<Bagder>        I think Björn moved that, on purpose or not
+<Linus> So did Zagor finally accept my ATA patch...? :-)
+<Linus> the bloated one
+<Bagder>        hah
+<Bagder>        he who writes the working code wins
+<Linus> :-)
+<Linus> BTW, did we give jedix credit for his work on the scroller?
+<Bagder>        I don't think we did
+<adi|work>      where do we need to give him credit?
+<adi|work>      on the credits list?
+<Bagder>        we should get Greg on IRC
+<adi|work>      Greg?
+<Bagder>        Haerr
+*       adi|work doesn't recognize the name
+<Bagder>        from the mailing list
+<adi|work>      ahh..okay..
+<Bagder>        he posted like 7 times the last 24 hours
+<adi|work>      that guy.. eheh okay
+<adi|work>      :)
+<adi|work>      just sent him an invite
+<Bagder>        night
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     wettoad has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+-->     wettoad (~wettoad@uludag.mbi-berlin.de) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> night
+<--     Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<--     Coug has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<--     datazone has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+-->     datazone ([Vx3r6U9xN@207.136.36.203) has joined #rockbox
+---     wettoad is now known as WetBed
+<--     elinenbe has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+-->     ironi (ironi@as2-5-7.j.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<ironi> hey
+<ironi> björn you have klez =)
+<ironi> how did you get it in linux
+<ironi> hehe
+<ironi> oh
+<ironi> anyone awake?
+<ironi> wow
+<ironi> the firmware is getting really good
+<ironi> but the moving around is still wrong
+-->     gregh (~greg@adsl-63-206-140-154.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+<gregh> hello
+<gregh> is this the rockbox developer irc channel?
+<ironi> yepp
+<ironi> that's it?
+<ironi> all you had to ask?
+<ironi> =)
+<gregh> would you believe I've been hacking code for 20 years
+<gregh> and never used irc?
+<gregh> a few folks suggested I get on this channel
+<gregh> I was thinking of jumping in and hacking the windows
+<gregh> simulator version a bit... I'm stuck using windows
+<gregh> for now and its hard to dual boot...
+<ironi> heh =)
+<ironi> i see
+<ironi> well welcome to irc
+<ironi> you have missed out on something for the last...well not 20 but maybe 10 years
+<adi|work>      hey gregh... glad you came over :)
+<adi|work>      you just missed Bagder and Linus
+<gregh> who is adi|work?  Is that edx?
+<adi|work>      they went to sleep a bit ago..
+<adi|work>      adi|work: adiamas
+<gregh> oh shoot.
+<adi|work>      adi|home: adiamas
+<adi|work>      :)
+<adi|work>      they are in sweden...
+<ironi> hm
+<ironi> and i am just a wannabe that has been around since day 1 of development
+<gregh> I'm thinking it would be fun to hack some code for the player
+<ironi> the only i have contributed with is the name "rockbox" and a bit of the website design
+<gregh> but I'm lazy and don't have time to cross compile so I've
+<gregh> got to get the windows simulator working great first...
+<gregh> ironi - well you did a good job on the name!
+<ironi> gregh: I'm kind of prud actually
+<ironi> hehe
+<ironi> I would hack code if I knew more
+<ironi> But I'll give it some more time
+<gregh> does everyone here use the x11 version, or instead
+<gregh> the actual target version?
+<ironi> heh gregh you dont need to press enter like that
+<ironi> =)
+<PsycoXul>      haha
+<gregh> oh, were your screens scrolling?  I double clicked on a few
+<gregh> peoples names...  I don't quite know what I'm doing on IRC!!
+<PsycoXul>      just type what you wanna say
+<PsycoXul>      nothing special
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<gregh> it was interesting to see where everybody's IP address was
+<gregh> ok, I think I've got it back under control now...
+<gregh> so - what feature should I hack on first?
+<PsycoXul>      you can put more on 1 line, rather than hitting enter between pieces ... 
+<ironi> gregh: what client do you use?
+<gregh> I just pulled down mIRC.  What do you recommend?  I am hitting enter a bit frequently, I see
+<ironi> gregh: well mirc is good for beginners
+<ironi> stick to that for a while
+<ironi> i personally use xircon, another windows client
+<gregh> hehe
+*       PsycoXul recomends *NIX clients :p
+<ironi> which i find better , but i guess that is just what im used to
+<ironi> PsycoXul: u think? for a newbie?
+<PsycoXul>      well if he's on windows he can't very well use them so i guess he's better off sticking with mirc
+<ironi> gregh: well a few hints: you doint need to type the entire nick of someone you address, jsut type first letter then tab
+<PsycoXul>      :p
+<ironi> or a few letters then :
+<gregh> mIRC requires payment after 30 days I think
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      sure it does 
+<PsycoXul>      :p
+<gregh> I have to use windows for my damn email for the time being
+<ironi>  /j to join /msg to private message /dns to see ip of a user, /notice to notice a user, /server to change server
+<ironi> the basic irc commands
+<ironi> =)
+<ironi> i cant beilieve there are actually ppl on this planet that have never used irc...today...2003 =)
+<ironi> no offence, gregh
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      ironi: you get out much?
+<gregh> well, I spend too much time in the VI editor.
+<PsycoXul>      lots of people haven't used irc :p
+<ironi> PsycoXul: wel i mean like programmers, computer-freaks etc
+<ironi> =)
+<gregh> I readily admitted my IRC failings so that you wouldn't think I'm completely out of it...
+<ironi> PsycoXul: yah i get out much but irc is a part of my life
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<gregh> what happens if you're gone for a while and someone sends a message, etc?
+<PsycoXul>      irc's funny like that
+<ironi> It sounds kinda geeky to say u have friends on irc, that you consider your friends.
+<PsycoXul>      well if you're not connected then you're not on the network to get it
+<PsycoXul>      it'll tell them you're not there
+<ironi> gregh: you can set your self away like /away reason bla bla
+<PsycoXul>      if you are connected it'll scroll in your client, and depending on settings your client may log it for you
+<gregh> I can see that IRC is much more interactive than email, and you can get a better feel for the type of person you
+<gregh> re communicating with...
+<ironi> gregh: of course
+<PsycoXul>      or it'll just be like in the scrollback
+<ironi> hell, I met my girlfriend on irc
+<ironi> hahaha
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<gregh> are the communications in IRC logged ?
+<ironi> gregh: you can log it, yes
+<gregh> (I wonder if I'll meet my future ex-girlfriend on IRC?)
+<gregh> I mean is there a master log for review?
+<ironi> gregh: optimistic, aye?
+<PsycoXul>      servers don't log
+<ironi> gregh: I don't think so
+<PsycoXul>      generaly
+<ironi> Never heard of it anyway
+<PsycoXul>      other people connected and in the channel can log the chan though
+<ironi> gregh: well you wont find any girls (hardly) on this network =)(
+<PsycoXul>      ironi: where will you find them?
+<gregh> ironi: yeah, I bet not ;-(
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<gregh> I meet girls with my rockbox, though =)
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<ironi> PsycoXul: i just meant there are other networks with channels that are more for "ordinary" ppl
+<ironi> chat channels
+<ironi> gregh: hehehe
+<PsycoXul>      ah
+<PsycoXul>      yeah but ordinary people suck :/
+<ironi> well
+<ironi> gregh: another good irc network (i think) is efnet, weher eoyu can find a lot of good channels
+<PsycoXul>      yeah efnet's huge
+<PsycoXul>      lots of people, lots of chans
+<PsycoXul>      i dunno that i'd call it a good network though
+<PsycoXul>      :p
+<ironi> PsycoXul: well its a good balance between good topics and off-topic talk
+<ironi> if you know what i mean
+<PsycoXul>      well that all depends on the chan
+<ironi> comparing to nets like dalnet =)
+<ironi> PsycoXul: of course
+<--     gregh has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<ironi> well dalnet has some good linux channels
+<ironi> oops
+<ironi> there he went
+-->     gregh (~greg@adsl-63-203-102-47.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     gregh has quit (Client Quit)
+<PsycoXul>      whoa
+<ironi> PsycoXul: where are you located?
+<PsycoXul>      he's in the same area as i am
+<ironi> whats that, los angeles?
+<ironi> lsan?
+-->     gregh (~greg@adsl-63-203-102-47.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+<PsycoXul>      san bernardino county i guess
+<gregh> am I back, good god I just got cut off
+<ironi> oh really
+<PsycoXul>      i'm in colton myself
+<ironi> gregh you nad PsycoXul seem to be neighbours
+<gregh> I am in newport beach right now
+<ironi> PsycoXul: is that california? =)
+<gregh> yepp
+*       ironi has no clue
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<ironi> gregh you can use /me to talk about yourself in third person
+<gregh> do you know why I was just disconnected with no warning?
+<ironi> so are you close?
+<PsycoXul>      connection reset by peer
+<PsycoXul>      well i guess not so close if he's on a beach
+<PsycoXul>      i'm rather inland
+<ironi> newport beach and colton
+<gregh> where is PsycoXul? I missed the last 3 minutes
+<ironi> ok
+<gregh> where the heck is colton?
+<PsycoXul>      near rialto
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<gregh> ok, where is rialto...
+<ironi> hahaha
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<gregh> I'm from salt lake city, actually
+<PsycoXul>      san bernardino county
+<gregh> but hangin here in newport
+<ironi> well im in sweden
+<gregh> what time is it, ironi
+<PsycoXul>      pretty close to riverside i think
+<ironi> i was in saint louis, MO for 5 months last year though
+<gregh> oh, then you are near chino?
+<ironi> 2:48 am
+<PsycoXul>      i'm not sure where chino is 
+<ironi> you guys haha
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<ironi> sometimes i forget how damn big usa is
+<gregh> he he, CA's too big a place
+<ironi> =)
+<ironi> it sure is
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      yeah california could be 2 states
+<PsycoXul>      and still be pretty big ones
+<PsycoXul>      :p
+<gregh> probably will be someday
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<ironi> but you both have *,dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net
+<PsycoXul>      yeah 
+<PsycoXul>      pacbell's funky
+<ironi> sounds to me like you should be close :-P
+<PsycoXul>      i'd think so too
+<ironi> i has swbell when i was in stl
+<ironi> had
+<gregh> ironi: i typed '/dns ironi' and nothing happened...
+<ironi> nothing?
+<ironi> strange
+<ironi> try /whois ironi
+<PsycoXul>      since i've seen .dsl.XXXX.pacbell.net different one's for LA and san diego i figured lsan was san bernardino..
+<ironi> not same thing
+<gregh> where's it supposed to put the info, on the line above?
+<ironi> on the line you type
+<ironi> oh oh
+<ironi> default mirc
+<ironi> in the status window
+<ironi> is where it gets put
+<ironi> damn default mirc is not all that funny
+<gregh> oh, yes, there it is, hidden behind my window
+<PsycoXul>      and btw for unix/linux irc client i recomend irssi
+<ironi> I would recommend xircon if you want winsdows gui client
+<ironi> irssi rocks
+<ironi> but i like windows
+<ironi> to put 4 channels in a tile
+<ironi> so i can see all at once on my 19"
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<ironi> thats heaven for me :-P
+<ironi> actually 6 right now
+<gregh> ah yes, that sounds like a good idea for a long time IRC person
+<PsycoXul>      you can have windows in irssi arranged how you like them
+<ironi> PsycoXul: nut in 2x2
+<PsycoXul>      really?
+<ironi> just above each other
+<PsycoXul>      i use fullsize windows
+<ironi> as far as i know
+<ironi> you talking console irssi?
+<PsycoXul>      15 of them right now
+<gregh> any idea why I was disconnected without notice?
+<PsycoXul>      though only 14 in use :p
+<ironi> ok wlel then you have to press buttons to change chans
+<PsycoXul>      alt and a number
+<PsycoXul>      big deal :p
+<PsycoXul>      like my hands aren't already pressing buttons to be and chat on irc :p
+<ironi> gregh: connection reset by peer
+<PsycoXul>      its more convenient than having to move a hand over to the mouse
+<gregh> you're talking a human or machine?  You mean TCPIP reset by peer
+<PsycoXul>      and i don't have the precious screen real estate to have them all visible at once
+<PsycoXul>      ...especialy having 14 windows 
+<PsycoXul>      being on 4 different networks
+<gregh> control-shift-f6 will change between mdi windows in windows
+<ironi> gregh: if it happens sometimes, its just like that, it happens
+<PsycoXul>      10+ different channels
+<ironi> im on 2 networks
+<ironi> gregh: i would really recoomend xircon to you
+<ironi> its really nice
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<ironi> for windows
+<gregh> I'll pull it down
+<ironi> you do need kano too
+<PsycoXul>      xircon's the least-shitty windows irc client i've found
+<ironi> xircon raw is crap
+<PsycoXul>      :p
+<ironi> PsycoXul: with kano its really extensive
+<ironi> the nick completion is unbeatable
+<PsycoXul>      yeah i've seen kano
+<PsycoXul>      i like irssi's nick completion
+<gregh> is kano an addon
+<PsycoXul>      yeah its a script
+<ironi> http://www.xircon.com/pub/xircon/XiRC10B4.EXE
+<ironi> install that first
+<PsycoXul>      i'm not a big fan of tcl personally
+<ironi> dont bother to run it befor eyou install....
+<ironi> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/kanotcl/k15beta8.exe
+<ironi> that
+<PsycoXul>      i'm not really fond of perl either, but i respect it and its a lot better than tcl :p 
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<ironi> when running the kano installer make sure you select the "first time install"
+<ironi> irssi is tcl or?
+<PsycoXul>      irssi uses perl for its scripting
+<PsycoXul>      xircon uses tcl
+<ironi> http://telia.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/kanotcl/k15beta8.exe
+<ironi> try that link for kano
+<ironi> the first one maybe didnt work
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<gregh> www.xircon.com/pub/xircon/XiRC10B4.EXE
+<gregh> I had to repeat that since I finally got logging turned on
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<ironi> you can click that link to open broswer
+<ironi> at least in xircon
+<gregh> and I never know when I'll get a disconnected
+<ironi> gregh: heh that doesnt happen so often, and with xircon + kano the windows wont empty when you reconnect
+<gregh> oh..
+<gregh> ok, got em both downloaded
+<ironi> even if oyu get kicked and rejoin
+<ironi> so install xircon first
+<ironi> then after that install kano and make sure you select the update settings box
+<gregh> shall I install it right now while I'm talkin with you guys?
+<ironi> makes some things easier
+<ironi> sure why not
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<gregh> here goes
+<gregh> heh
+<PsycoXul>      imma go watch the conformavision
+<PsycoXul>      bbl :p
+<gregh> xIRC installed
+<ironi> k
+<gregh> except no desktop icon, hm
+<ironi> its in the start menu
+<ironi> =)
+<ironi> well dont run it
+<ironi> install kano first
+<gregh> installing kano now...
+<ironi> k
+<ironi> now xirocn is a bit different but a lot easier to understand i think
+<ironi> especiallt he cinenct dialog
+<gregh> did you say  I should check the "update settings" box?
+<ironi> yep
+<ironi> definitely
+<ironi> did you?
+<gregh> and all the other boxes?
+<ironi> yah i think so
+<ironi> dont rememberthe others
+<ironi> =)
+<gregh> ok kano installed
+<gregh> now what
+<ironi> so now start xircon
+<gregh> should i log in and keep connected here also?
+<gregh> can you run two clients?
+<ironi> yeah if its possible
+<ironi> well yes
+<gregh> ok, here goes...!
+<ironi> but sometimes a server doenst accept two conenctions
+<ironi> from same if
+<ironi> but if you conenct to irc.openprojects.org you wont always end up on the same
+<ironi> it redirects
+<gregh> i'm running it now, does it always take a bit after logging into the server to ask for the channel connection?
+<ironi> oh you mean the pop-up window?
+<gregh> yes, it's got a black (single) window
+<ironi> ok
+<ironi> you can use /j rockbox
+<ironi>  /j is short for join
+<ironi> not working?
+-->     new_gregh (~Greg@adsl-63-203-102-47.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+<ironi> hehe
+<ironi> there u go
+<new_gregh>     hehe
+<ironi> ok so there are a few things you should configure
+<ironi> if you right click in the channel
+<ironi> configure/options/kanos options
+<new_gregh>     right click in the black window?
+<ironi> uncheck any box checked on the lower half on the middle section
+<ironi> yeah in the channel window you are talking in
+<new_gregh>     there aren't checkboxes, just hierarchical menus...
+<ironi> well in the menu ther eis configure -> options -> kanos options
+<ironi> there i would recommend to unchek all boxes in the lower half on th emiddle section, like reprt fatal erros and so on
+<gregh> ok, I've got that up now
+<ironi> also set "autoaway" to "off", and "on nick highlight" to "echo in focused"
+<ironi> the hit ok
+<gregh> good god what a bunch of options...!!
+<ironi> then
+<ironi> yeah there is A LOT more
+<ironi> if you want
+<ironi> but you dont need to
+<gregh> ok, did all that
+<ironi> done?
+<ironi> ok
+<new_gregh>     yep, here I am
+<ironi> configure -> options -> modules options
+<ironi> check automatically log all channels to dir
+<gregh> geez a zillion more options
+<ironi> its a grwat fnction that sorts logs , channels in one dir and querys (private conversations) in one
+<new_gregh>     done
+<ironi> configure -> options -> addons options
+<gregh> ok
+<ironi> remove the bottow five checkboxes
+<ironi> they are annoying
+<ironi> well actually
+<new_gregh>     done
+<ironi> if u want spellfix, keep it
+<ironi> i cant use it since i talk in swedish in some channels
+<new_gregh>     no spell fix for now, I never make a mistrake ;-)
+<ironi> ok and now
+<ironi> mistrake
+<ironi> and now something
+<ironi> type /ncomp &n:
+<new_gregh>     what?
+<ironi>  /ncomp &n:
+<new_gregh>     I did that
+<ironi> ok
+<ironi> new_gregh: This is what the nick comp is set to!
+<ironi> thats what u got?
+<new_gregh>     yes
+<ironi> cause that is nick completion
+<ironi> try typing ir:
+<ironi> still there?
+<new_gregh>     ironi:
+<ironi> you see?
+<ironi> =)
+<ironi> you can also try ir and press tab
+<ironi> it will complete the nick
+<new_gregh>     ironi
+<ironi> kinda handy
+<ironi> for long nicks
+<new_gregh>     what does the &n mean?
+<ironi> oh that was how it would complete
+<ironi>  &n is the nick and :
+<new_gregh>     OH I get it now... nick completion is nick followed by :
+<new_gregh>     I said I'm new...
+<ironi> exactly
+<ironi> so i change my
+<ironi> new_gregh-baby:
+<ironi> heh
+<ironi> adi|work-baby:
+<ironi>  /ncomp &n-baby:
+<ironi> =)
+<new_gregh>     I suppose you can do /ncomp (eval fn(&n))?
+<ironi> its with an underscored : by default and a lot of ppl dont like that
+<ironi> hah
+<ironi> dunno
+<ironi> try /help ncomp
+<new_gregh>     I'm going to change new_gregh back to gregh but can't since I'm running two clients right now
+<new_gregh>     how do I setup for automatic login to rockbox on startup?"
+<ironi> no... close the first one and do /nick gregh
+<--     gregh has quit ()
+---     new_gregh is now known as gregh
+<gregh> hello there
+<gregh> we're rockin now
+<ironi> right click in the channel, then do autojoin-> add to autojoins
+<ironi> autojoin->add current
+<ironi> yeah
+<ironi> do this
+<gregh> done
+<ironi>  /theme bitchx
+<ironi> thats a nice theme i think
+<gregh> it didn't do anything yet
+<ironi> looks like BitchX, a *nix console irc client
+<ironi> didnt you get a popup where you could press ok?
+<gregh> it asked for the load, but no art changed...
+<gregh> yes
+<ironi> oh really
+<ironi> strange
+<ironi> maybe its default then
+<gregh> it says that it loaded it
+<gregh> what's another theme
+<ironi> strange
+<ironi> try /theme
+<ironi> then look in kano\themes
+<gregh> ok, i loaded Metal
+<gregh> what is supposed to change?
+<ironi> thatone is noce to
+<ironi> colors
+<gregh> just the text colors?
+<ironi> font colors
+<ironi> yeah
+<ironi> and a few other things
+<ironi> the "console"
+<ironi> you cna actually try yourself b using /kano
+<gregh> well, it's not too exciting over here
+<ironi> like /kano 0
+*       ironi is testing
+<gregh> I set a prompt
+<ironi> hm
+*       ironi is testing
+<gregh> but don't see the prompt...
+<ironi> well its just when messgaes appear form the server, and so on
+<ironi> nevermind
+<gregh> that's ok, thanks
+<ironi> so anyway
+<ironi> you can do /ts
+<ironi> to get itmestamp
+<gregh> good
+<ironi> you have to do it individually for every channel
+<ironi> try pressing the little button with tools on top
+<ironi> you have a time format
+<ironi> you might want to change the time display layout
+<gregh> I see, my god what a configurable program
+<ironi> i have [%H:%M]
+<ironi> and also connecta t startup
+<ironi> might be handy
+<gregh> I set the connect at startup
+<ironi> now
+<gregh> well, before I go to bed tonight, I'll see if Linux or Bjorn are on
+<ironi>  is this highlighted gregh
+<gregh> yes
+<ironi> good.
+<ironi> actually, minimize this program and look at your keyboard lamps
+<ironi> try that now
+<ironi> gregh
+<ironi> gregh
+<ironi> cool, isnt it?
+<ironi> gregh
+<ironi> =)
+<gregh> wow
+<ironi> the scroll lock is blinking , right?
+<ironi> =)
+<gregh> yes
+<ironi> i think that rocks, when im doing something else i can see someone needs me
+<gregh> how do you know if its addressed to you, or just the channel?
+<ironi> well kano is porlly the most complicated tcl script there is for irc
+<ironi> well it blinks when your name is said
+<ironi> thats the only occasion
+<gregh> oh my god
+<ironi> or when someone wites osmething to you in a private window
+<ironi> writes
+<gregh> and here I thought it was just when a message came through of any kind ...
+<ironi> no no
+<ironi> its a bit more sofisticated
+<ironi> anyway you can do most kano commands and options with / , you dnt have to use menus, which i think is handy
+<gregh> well, I better get something to eat and you better sleep...
+<ironi> if yu want to explore all the commands try typing /help
+<gregh> I will read up on this complicated thing...
+<ironi> and look onwards from there
+<gregh> I'll just leave this running, though
+<ironi> the commands that you do with / are called aliases btw
+<ironi> hehe do that
+<ironi> now waut
+<ironi> wait
+<ironi> try this /away food
+*       gregh is away, food [l/on p/on]
+*       ironi is gone, sleeping [l/on p/on]
+<ironi> =)
+<gregh> am I awa?
+<ironi> yep
+<gregh> away?
+*       gregh has returned, [gone/1m 26s]
+<gregh> how do you get the private window?
+<ironi> you double click a user in the list
+<ironi> or if you want to do it the command line way you type /msg nickname text
+<ironi> the reply will still open up a new window
+<gregh> ok, I'm going to eat now, thanks alot for the info!
+<ironi> np
+*       gregh is away, food+drinking [l/on p/on]
+<ironi> kano is huge, takes forever to learn all the nifty email-checkers and other built-in utils
+<gregh> s u later
+<ironi> but a tip is to rght click and  go on help->aliases
+<ironi> ok take care
+<ironi> 
+<ironi> 
+<ironi> gregh: do u use emacs?
+<gregh> no
+<ironi> xircon supports some of it
+<ironi> ok
+<gregh> I'm a VI man
+<ironi> i think björn does
+<ironi> i have to tell him about it, i just found out
+<ironi> i haver used kano for 4 years, i keep finding new stuff
+<ironi> haha
+<gregh> isn't it about 3:30 in the morning now?
+<ironi> oh damn =)
+<ironi> i have to be up at 8
+<ironi> bye =)
+<gregh> =)
+<--     gregh has quit (" <k!15b8>")
+-->     gregh (~Greg@adsl-63-206-140-88.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     ironi has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<--     gregh has quit (" <k!15b8>")
+-->     gregh (~Greg@adsl-63-206-140-88.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     gregh has quit (Client Quit)
+-->     gregh (~Greg@adsl-63-206-140-88.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<gregh> yes i'm back
+---     dwihno|gone is now known as dwihno
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<PsycoXul>      http://www.sciplus.com/singleItem.cfm?terms=6609
+<PsycoXul>      are those too long? heh
+<PsycoXul>      heh well... i guess they are
+<PsycoXul>      thats kinda... heh
+<dwihno>        Hmm, looks fishy
+<PsycoXul>      well i measured my batteries
+<PsycoXul>      they're only 2" 
+<PsycoXul>      those are 9/16" longer
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<dwihno>        Well, you can always re-design your player to make it accept the bigger batteries ;)
+<dwihno>        What kind of archos do you haev?
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      studio20
+<adi|home>      gregh: about your logs question
+<adi|home>      we have some of the irc conversation logs on the web site
+<adi|home>      but no _everything_
+<adi|home>      and i met an ex on irc too ;)
+<adi|home>      well.. chat room.. not irc ;)
+<dwihno>        Does the archos firmware ever bug (major bugs, that is) for you?
+<dwihno>        adi|home: internet is not for real(tm) :)
+<adi|home>      dunno... havent' used it on my recorder
+<PsycoXul>      well adding a whole dir to a playlist adds through to the end of the disk or more usualy the 999 limit
+<adi|home>      thats not true dwihno
+<adi|home>      we talked on line for 6 months or so...
+<dwihno>        adi|home: The internet has you!
+<adi|home>      talked on the phone for another 4
+<PsycoXul>      its a nice feature but not as nice as one that stops at the end of the dir :p
+<adi|home>      then met in real life
+<dwihno>        adi|home: nobody can be told what the internet is, you have to see it yourself! :)
+<PsycoXul>      and the 999 limit's real annoying on a 20G drive
+<adi|home>      we're 'togeather' for about a year
+<dwihno>        PsycoXul: true, true
+<PsycoXul>      the menus are a little random in their behaviour... they often don't return to where you expect them to
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<gregh> adi|home: which log question?
+-->     g003y (~foo@m198-187.dsl.rawbw.com) has joined #rockbox
+<adi|home>      asking if there was a master list to irc
+<gregh> oh yes, I was going to see if catching up on irc logs was worthwhile
+<adi|home>      i think just diving into the code and asking questions is your best shot
+<dwihno>        adi|home: The internet has you!!! :O
+<adi|home>      find something you want to fix/do and do it
+<adi|home>      hehe damn right dwihno
+<adi|home>      i mud
+<adi|home>      i code
+<adi|home>      i research
+<adi|home>      i purchase
+<adi|home>      i bank
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<adi|home>      i talk with my gf
+<adi|home>      i spend 'alone time'
+<adi|home>      it has me ;)
+<gregh> i give $ to my gf
+<dwihno>        :)
+<dwihno>        MUD?!
+<adi|home>      mud baby.. mud
+<dwihno>        Hehe, I did that ages ago... Eww
+<gregh> I thought of a cool new feature for rockbox
+<dwihno>        w
+<dwihno>        w
+<dwihno>        w
+<dwihno>        forage
+<adi|home>      hehehe yup
+<adi|home>      w
+<adi|home>      w
+<adi|home>      e
+<adi|home>      n
+<adi|home>      n
+<g003y> who the heck has klez on the list?
+<dwihno>        :)
+<adi|home>      kill troll
+<adi|home>      run west
+<adi|home>      run west faster
+<adi|home>      pray
+<adi|home>      okya.. im off to quake a bit.. be back soon
+<dwihno>        quakes0r!
+<dwihno>        hm
+*       dwihno goes to check the evil mailbox
+<--     g003y (~foo@m198-187.dsl.rawbw.com) has left #rockbox
+<--     gregh has quit (" <k!15b8>")
+-->     gregh (~Greg@adsl-63-206-140-88.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+<--     gregh has quit (Client Quit)
+-->     gregh (~Greg@adsl-63-206-140-88.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+-->     g003y (~foo@m198-187.dsl.rawbw.com) has joined #rockbox
+<g003y> ok so now I know for sure I'm not the one with klez virus on my machine.
+<g003y> *back to your regular scheduled firmware hacking*
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<adi|home>      Bagder you check your mail recently?
+<Bagder>        checking now
+<adi|home>      k
+<adi|home>      i want to know what you think of the guys question about his 'Archos Jukebox 6000'
+<adi|home>      and my response, and then his response.
+*       adi|home is feeling a bit peeved.
+<dwihno>        Good morning Dr. Bagder 
+<g003y> you mean the "mp3 no id3 info bug" one?
+<Bagder>        his previous responses to other mails has proved him to be a bit "trigger happy" when it comes to reacting on mail content
+<adi|home>      k...
+<adi|home>      um.. am i out off line wanting to respond with 'fuck you'
+<adi|home>      i won't..
+<g003y> trigger happy... more like instant asshole.  just add internet
+<adi|home>      but im just asking
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<adi|home>      I mean.. am i wrong that his email doesn't make it obvious that he is using a studio?
+<PsycoXul>      honestly i dunno what mp3 playback not working on the recorder has to do with a "No mp3 id info" message on a jukebox 6k...
+*       adi|home wonders if he is supposed to have the _entire_ archos line memorized
+<PsycoXul>      uh?
+<g003y> ya know what... don't waste anymore cycles on him.  He can't even get on this irc server
+<PsycoXul>      i think the lists getting too much crap lately
+<adi|home>      am i correct in thinking that there is no archos 6000 recorder?
+<PsycoXul>      10 emails just with or about ones with viruses all pretty much at once
+<adi|home>      yeah.. but those were automated
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Bagder>        adi; yes, the 6GB recorder is named "Recorder 6"
+<PsycoXul>      is it?
+<Bagder>        I think so
+<Bagder>        hm
+<Bagder>        or perhaps not
+<g003y> never seen on the site myself
+<PsycoXul>      well they're not called "Jukebox 6000"s i'm pretty sure
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Bagder>        no, that's for sure at least
+<adi|home>      so are there 2 versions?
+<Bagder>        of recorders?
+<g003y> http://www.archos.com/us/products/product_jbrecorders.html
+<PsycoXul>      first there was the jukebox 6000
+<PsycoXul>      the first player
+<PsycoXul>      and then later they came out with the recorder
+<g003y> wow there is one.... never noticed before
+<PsycoXul>      which was also initialy 6G i think
+*       adi|home nods
+<PsycoXul>      and the 20G versions and the 10G versions
+<PsycoXul>      and best buy has had some 5G version of something too
+<Bagder>        there are players: 6000/5000 Jukbox, Studio 10 and 20, Recorder 6, 10 and 20.
+*       gregh is gone, sleep [l/on p/on]
+<Bagder>        there's a 5GB recorder?
+<PsycoXul>      i only know of the jukebox 5000 for 5GB
+<PsycoXul>      i dunno
+<adi|home>      might i spam the channel for a sec with my response before I send it just to him?
+*       adi|home waits for a descenting vote
+<PsycoXul>      die!
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Bagder>        you want my opinion? don't reply at all.
+<adi|home>      but but but... he needs a spanking
+<PsycoXul>      what for
+<adi|home>      cause i responded to offer and answer to his question
+<adi|home>      and he was a dick
+*       adi|home gets all pouty
+<g003y> just email him this
+<g003y> http://www.amishrakefight.org/gfy/
+<g003y> classic
+<adi|home>      lol
+<PsycoXul>      well
+<adi|home>      no no no...
+<PsycoXul>      i wonder if you even read his question
+<PsycoXul>      because honestly your answer had nothing to do with it in the least
+<PsycoXul>      :p
+<adi|home>      it does if you think about it
+<PsycoXul>      he mentioned nothing about music playback for one thing
+<PsycoXul>      he was talking about id3 info display
+<adi|home>      think abou it...
+<adi|home>      no.. he states thats the prob
+<adi|home>      if you _know_ that music won't play
+<adi|home>      why try and play an mp3?
+<adi|home>      thats what i was pointing out
+*       adi|home wonders if that made sense
+<PsycoXul>      and the other thing is he said "jukebox 6000" which is all over the place on the web page and other places as being a player and the first target and having music playback working 
+<adi|home>      right, but how many emails do we get describing 'jukebox'
+<PsycoXul>      and even if music playback doesn't work, why should that stop somebody from testing id3 info display?
+<adi|home>      because he didn't state he was testing the id3 display
+<adi|home>      he didn't state anything other then 'is this a bug'
+<PsycoXul>      well gee i dunno 
+<adi|home>      and i was responding that if he was trying to _play_ music.. then no its not a bug
+<PsycoXul>      asking about the display of the message "No mp3 id info" seems to imply something about id3 display
+<g003y> regardless no reason to snap like a pitbull reading usenet
+<adi|home>      " but when
+<adi|home>      I tried to play some other, real, mp3file"
+<g003y> "he's snapping at me.  He's stripped his teeth"
+<adi|home>      is he exact statemnt
+<adi|home>      thats why i asked
+<PsycoXul>      he said he selected a non-mp3 file by mistake, got a no id3 info message, then went to a mp3 file and still got the no id3 message
+<PsycoXul>      and has to reboot to get the id3 info from an mp3 file
+<PsycoXul>      it sounds like a bug to me
+<adi|home>      right...
+<adi|home>      but was it the rebooting.. or the display he was asking about...
+<adi|home>      so thats what i was pointing out
+<PsycoXul>      it sounds like he was dropping an e-mail about the bug...
+<adi|home>      and franklky.. if he doesn't know enough to read that playback isn't playing on a recorder, then he doens't know enough to figure out how to leave the display
+<adi|home>      but _which_ 'bug'
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<adi|home>      thats my point
+<PsycoXul>      the bug of id3 info not being displayed after having selected a non-mp3 file
+<PsycoXul>      kindof a silly one i admit, but something that might be looked into :p
+<adi|home>      but if its a recorder.. then its not a 'bug
+<Bagder>        weird bug it is
+<adi|home>      if your ead the website ;)
+<adi|home>      read rather
+<PsycoXul>      sure it is
+<PsycoXul>      as i understand it the recorder shouldn't have a problem displaying id3 info
+<PsycoXul>      even if you don't get music playback
+<g003y> what if you select a non-mp3 file? :D
+<PsycoXul>      since he didn't even mention music playback though i don't think its worth worrying about in that respect
+<PsycoXul>      and since he did say explicitly "Archos Jukebox 6000" which is also on the website as having music playback
+<PsycoXul>      if you're intent on people reading the website
+<PsycoXul>      :p
+<g003y> hehehehehe
+<adi|home>      heheh true
+<PsycoXul>      i'd have to agree with bagder and just drop it
+<g003y> I'd say that is your best route.
+<adi|home>      yeah.. but pimp slapping is so much more fun. :)
+<PsycoXul>      maybe but not really the purpose of the mailing list
+<PsycoXul>      which, like i said before, is starting to get too much crap already as it is
+<adi|home>      i know.. thats why i wasn't going to send to the list
+<adi|home>      to him ;)
+<adi|home>      if you read irc ;)
+<PsycoXul>      ah well have fun if you want to
+<g003y> dang where is that old send a bitch slap site when you need it :D
+<PsycoXul>      its your choice of course :p
+<g003y> if his is on the list long enough maybe he will get the klez virus.  
+<g003y> his == he
+<g003y> I wonder who the heck keeps sending that damn thing to the list anyway.
+<Bagder>        someone on the list is infected
+<adi|home>      i really need to get my hands on a player
+<Bagder>        there are ~166 suspects ;-)
+<adi|home>      i blame it on the 'instant asshole'
+<adi|home>      but hey, thats just me
+<adi|home>      wow.. that many ?
+<g003y> hahahah
+<--     gregh has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<g003y> well make it ~165 cuz it ain't me :D
+<adi|home>      64
+<Bagder>        haha
+<adi|home>      164
+<g003y> I scanned for grins even
+<Bagder>        wc -l /home/majordom/lists/rockbox
+<Bagder>            162 /home/majordom/lists/rockbox
+<Bagder>        I've suggested we lower the maximum mail size we allow to the list
+<adi|home>      i swear.. i think archos choose the AA cable so that you _had- to buy them through them.. cause i can't find them anywhere
+<Bagder>        it should stop most klezes
+<adi|home>      im all for it
+<g003y> I got an extra AA fairly easy
+<g003y> but that was when I first picked up the _jukebox 6000_
+<adi|home>      ive looke everywhere
+<adi|home>      best buy, compusa, radio shack
+<g003y> ugh... those places never have them
+<g003y> on line
+*       adi|home noticed
+<g003y> I ordered
+<adi|home>      ahh.. okay
+<adi|home>      I just got my Atari today :)
+<adi|home>      hehe 2600 baby...
+<g003y> how many carts?
+<adi|home>      im at 20 or so
+<g003y> nice
+<adi|home>      now i just need a converted for my tv
+<adi|home>      i don't have the vhf clips on this tv :)
+<g003y> ratshack should have that
+<adi|home>      know what sucks...
+<g003y> oh
+<adi|home>      it was in perfect condition
+<adi|home>      got a small chunk taken outta the edge in transit
+<g003y> damn....
+<adi|home>      the 3 small chips were in the box when i got it..
+<adi|home>      yeah :(
+<g003y> was that an ebay purchase?
+<adi|home>      yup
+<adi|home>      and the packing was very good
+<adi|home>      that was the sucky thing
+<g003y> was it UPS or USPS?
+<adi|home>      USPS
+<adi|home>      priotiry insured
+<g003y> hmmm....
+<g003y> I think they actually take the package when they pay out on a clain
+<g003y> clain == claim
+<adi|home>      ick
+<adi|home>      im not claiming..
+<adi|home>      im keeping this...
+<adi|home>      only a small chip
+<g003y> if it works then don't bother
+<g003y> get a tv card, and mod that mofo onto your pc case :D
+<adi|home>      lol
+<g003y> you get all the joysticks?
+<g003y> paddles
+<g003y> ?
+<adi|home>      2 sticks
+<adi|home>      and 4 paddles
+<adi|home>      i just need the ones with keypads
+<g003y> I thought those were Intellivision
+*       adi|home nods
+<adi|home>      but if i remember atari made them as well
+<adi|home>      but im not positive
+<g003y> well coleco had them too
+<g003y> but only the rich kids had coleco :D
+<adi|home>      hehehe
+<g003y> maybe that is a generalization, but I definitely couldn't afford one & I wasn't rich 
+<adi|home>      i was crushed when i talked to my nephew.. and i showed him pics of the atari screens
+<adi|home>      he just went 'eww.. whats that?'
+<g003y> hahahahahahahahahaha
+<g003y> kids need that high res these days
+<adi|home>      nods
+<adi|home>      "what do you mean no blood?"
+<g003y> "what is that dot?"  "It's a tank bullet"
+<adi|home>      hehehe
+<adi|home>      i told him about pong... 
+<g003y> hah....
+<adi|home>      and died when he said 'and you called that fun? '
+<g003y> just wait until his kids are playing games in supa-high 33330003030303x397439847984374987 sssvga organic wall tft screens
+<g003y> when games have to be written slow on purpose cuz they can't max the hardware anymore.
+<adi|home>      LOL
+<adi|home>      Dad! Dad! can i buy the Nuerel-NetStation 3?
+<adi|home>      its only 765$!!!
+<adi|home>      On Sale!
+<g003y> hahaha
+<adi|home>      holy christ
+<g003y> no kidding
+<adi|home>      anyone else watching the brasil costa rica game?
+<g003y> nope
+*       adi|home hates mentionging scores case anyone is taping it
+<g003y> don't have cable so I've only been getting the next day tappings at work if someone brings them
+*       adi|home nods
+>g003y< brasil has 3 goals in 30 mins
+<adi|home>      okay.. off to quake a bit
+<g003y> hmmm... quake.
+<g003y> reminds me... I need to finish gta3
+-->     gregh (~Greg@adsl-63-203-101-206.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
+<dwihno>        and france+argentina sucks donkey-balls :)
+*       Bagder writes boring code at work... -/
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> hey all. i'm taking down the web and mail server for hardware updates
+<Bagder>        affirmative
+<Zagor> see you soon
+<--     Zagor has quit (Client Quit)
+---     Disconnected (22).
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 13 04:35:39 2002
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+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 13 04:36:02 2002
+
+-->     stile (~adiamas@216.194.26.64) has joined #rockbox
+---     Topic for #rockbox is Version 1.0 released! http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+---     Topic for #rockbox set by ChanServ at Tue Jun 11 03:31:20
+<stile> after much thought and decision making.. ive decided.. ppl in general.. suck :)
+<Bagder>        you didn't already know? ;-)
+<--     adi|home has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<stile> i just dind't know they sucked so bad
+---     You are now known as adi|home
+<Bagder>        "just one more time, for the sake of sanity... tell me why, explain the gravity"
+*       Bagder sings along
+*       g003y wonders what song bagder is singing, and how is co-worker's feel about his voice
+<Bagder>        I play so loud in my headphones I can't hear them anyway ;-)
+<g003y> hahahahaha
+<Bagder>        and the song is an Assemblage 23 one
+*       Bagder doesn't expect anyone to know it
+<g003y> 4 on the floor techno?
+<Bagder>        I wouldn't call it techno, but rather dark and hard synth/industrial
+<g003y> ahhh... thats different.  I'm talking the shit you hear in clubs that sounds like one big freaking record the dj never changes :D
+<Bagder>        ah, nah, I'm not into that kind
+<g003y> thats good :D
+<g003y> is there a key combo with the current firmware build that lets you get back to the currently playing song display?
+<Bagder>        I dunno
+<Bagder>        heck, I hardly know how to use it at all ;-)
+<g003y> hmmm.. I don't see one in the code so I'll assume no.
+<g003y> :D
+<Bagder>        I want my rockbox
+<dwihno>        :D
+<dwihno>        I want rockbox for recorder! :D
+<dwihno>        But I'm patient
+<dwihno>        So I'll just wait
+<dwihno>        And contribute to the project in every way I may :)
+<Bagder>        the day there's sound from the MAS3587, I'll run Rockbox non-stop
+<dwihno>        MAS3587? The chip in R20?
+<Bagder>        yeah
+<dwihno>        mkay
+<g003y> ahhh... I'm running my own personal build of rockbox right now :D
+<Bagder>        that's the spirit!
+<dwihno>        Yeah, playlist parsing, LCD flickering and a couple of other things and I'll use it too
+<Bagder>        it ain't cool if you didn't build it yourself ;-)
+<g003y> I saw some cvs comments about playlist parsing support
+<g003y> so I suspect that is nearing completion
+<g003y> or useable 
+<Bagder>        the code is already there actually
+<g003y> ahh good deal
+<Bagder>        just not shuffle
+<g003y> fair enough
+<Bagder>        it "should" work now
+<g003y> I haven't loaded any yet
+<dwihno>        Bagder: any limitations? I mean, does it parse m3u's with #-style comments?
+<g003y> been awhile since I've used playlists to be honest
+<Bagder>        me neither, I have a recorder ;-)
+<Bagder>        dwihno: no comments, no
+<Bagder>        do regular m3us have them?
+<g003y> those are bastard m3us that nullsoft made the switch too.
+<Bagder>        well, ignoring lines like that would be dead simple to add
+<dwihno>        Bagder: Winamp store song information (length) every other line...
+<Bagder>        oh
+<g003y> yeah
+<g003y> sometimes I really hate the way they do things.
+<dwihno>        Is there a battery meter available yet? :)
+<g003y> nope :(
+<dwihno>        The scroller is way cool btw... Should be seamless though
+<Bagder>        that's a whole can of worms as they say
+<g003y> yeah I got the scroller api displaying the filename across the screen
+<g003y> at least until you dump out of that mode back to the browse mode :D
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<Bagder>        cool
+<g003y> I almost think ppl should be able to select/build in code for parsing their style mp3 naming, but that might be a beast nobody wants to cut loose
+<Bagder>        I'm gonna take a stab at that soonish
+<Bagder>        shortening the names on screen
+<dwihno>        hmm
+<g003y> hmmm
+<g003y> we should share notes :D
+<Bagder>        yeah
+<dwihno>        I always name mine XX. YYYYYYYYY (ZZZZ).mp3
+<dwihno>        X = track number
+<dwihno>        Y = file name
+<dwihno>        Z = remix notes
+<dwihno>        Artist - Album (Year)
+<dwihno>        That's how I name the dirs
+<g003y> I think that is fairly common
+<g003y> it could be just a small handful defintions of formats that ppl could choose from with a sensible default just in case.
+<dwihno>        Does the current rockbox have any way of showing song length information?
+<dwihno>        Compared to the archos firmware, that is
+<Bagder>        it estimates the length for non VBRs
+<Bagder>        that's all so far
+<g003y> estimates based on header info correct?
+<Bagder>        yeps
+<g003y> but isn't that pretty much exact?
+<Bagder>        it is
+<Bagder>        should be at least
+<g003y> ahhh...
+<g003y> gotcha
+<Bagder>        it uses integer math too which might make it loose some precision
+<Bagder>        I haven't checked that closely
+<g003y> you're probably right
+<g003y> whats the problem with time display on vbrs?
+<Bagder>        we need to read the whole file to get the length
+<Bagder>        and it kind of sucks
+<dwihno>        Is there a quick way to do VBR estimation?
+<dwihno>        erhm
+<g003y> I'd say that sucks
+<dwihno>        that is sucky
+<g003y> I did not realize vbr sucked that way
+<dwihno>        As long as CBR's are OK ;)
+<g003y> ha....
+<g003y> I'm torn between CBR and VBRs with r3mix options on lame.
+<dwihno>        Hey, what is displayed when songs are played?
+<g003y> id3 info with the current cvs tree
+<g003y>                lcd_puts(0, 0, mp3.artist?mp3.artist:"<no artist>");
+<g003y>                lcd_puts(0, 1, mp3.title?mp3.title:"<no title>");
+<g003y> there ya go :D
+<dwihno>        oww
+<dwihno>        Doesn't it handle non-tagged files?! :(
+<Bagder>        you mean id3 info without id3? ;-)
+<dwihno>        hehehe
+<g003y> hehehehehehehe
+<dwihno>        mr. funny-ass pants ;)
+<g003y> I've got alternatives going on my local copy
+<g003y> so I'm sure it will be handled eventually
+<g003y> at least before the recorder version comes out :D
+<dwihno>        cool
+<Bagder>        haha
+*       Bagder puts the "in charge of the while-playing-song display" sticker on g003y
+<g003y> gagagagagagagagagag
+<g003y> hey that isn't coming off!
+<g003y> only problem is I don't have everything quite setup right here.  I need to get an account and a real cvs login for the project
+<Bagder>        mail your sf account user name to Björn
+<g003y> I will though... I'd really like to contribute my code
+<g003y> oh... I've got to get an sf account as well :D
+<Bagder>        you can always start with mailing diffs
+<g003y> tru
+<g003y> e
+<g003y> I've just been syncing anon and patching my changes
+<g003y> it's not much so far, but I should get setup properly
+<g003y> I still can't believe how advanced the apis on the firmware are already
+<Bagder>        it's pretty cool indeed
+<g003y> alrighty guys.  like Bagder I have to code boring stuff in a few hours at my day job.  So I think some sleep is in order for me.
+<Bagder>        night g003y
+<g003y> night
+<--     g003y (~foo@m198-187.dsl.rawbw.com) has left #rockbox
+<Bagder>        it seems as if Zagor has problems with the new hardware... it should've been up by now
+<--     gregh has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<Bagder>        cpu MHz         : 1600.072
+<dwihno>        [~] cat /proc/cpuinfo|grep MHz
+<dwihno>        cpu MHz         : 232.674
+<dwihno>        cpu MHz         : 232.674
+<dwihno>        There you got it
+<dwihno>        dual süstëëm
+<dwihno>        Dual is sleek, sexy and pr0no! :)
+<Bagder>        dual 1600
+<Bagder>        cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep MHz
+<Bagder>        cpu MHz         : 1600.072
+<Bagder>        cpu MHz         : 1600.072
+<dwihno>        you evil dude!
+<dwihno>        :)
+<Bagder>        its the new hardware that the rockbox site runs on
+<dwihno>        cool stuff
+<dwihno>        who pays the hw?
+<Bagder>        Contactor
+<Bagder>        the company I, Björn and Linus work for
+<dwihno>        Hire me :)
+<dwihno>        <Bagder> sure
+<dwihno>        Yay ;D
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<dwihno>        Why not? :)
+<Bagder>        I wish we could, but the market is a bit rough atm
+<dwihno>        I know
+<dwihno>        Are your employers aware of you spending a lot of time on the Rockbox project?
+<Bagder>        no :-)
+<Bagder>        I won't tell them
+<Bagder>        but then I must do my proper work properly anyway
+<dwihno>        Yeah
+<dwihno>        My recorder sometimes skips the initial 200 msecs of a song...
+<Bagder>        exactly 200?
+<dwihno>        Roughly
+<dwihno>        (with the stock firmware, that is)
+<dwihno>        Do you experience that on the player models?
+<dwihno>        (w, w/o rockbox)
+<Bagder>        no idea
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@mimas.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        hey ho
+<Zagor> hi. back at last
+<dwihno>        10:04 < Zagor> see you soon
+<dwihno>        ;)
+<Zagor> yeah, well that's pc hardware for you...
+<Zagor> the motherboard has two IDE LED connectors
+<Zagor> if you connect the "wrong" one, the keyboard stops working...
+<Zagor> that one took me a while to figure out...
+<dwihno>        Intel inside, Zagor outside
+<Zagor> so, what have you guys been up to this morning?
+<dwihno>        We've been talking about how rockbox handles tags when the files do not have id3 tags :)
+<Bagder>        g00ey was around and told us he's done some improvements on the software for what to show while a track is playing
+<Bagder>        g003y
+<Zagor> ok, did we get the code?
+<dwihno>        And I thought the scroller would be seamless
+<Zagor> seamless?
+<Bagder>        Zagor: no, but he'll return
+<Zagor> dwihno: what do you mean seamless?
+<dwihno>        I'll show
+<dwihno>        Zagor had a little lamb.mp3
+<dwihno>        or had a little lamb.mp3
+<dwihno>        a little lamb.mp3
+<dwihno>        lamb.mp3
+<dwihno>        This is how it is now
+<dwihno>        Zagor had a little lamb.mp3
+<dwihno>        or had a little lamb.mp3
+<Zagor> not any more
+<dwihno>        a little lamb.mp3    Zagor
+<dwihno>        lamb.mp3 Zagor had a littl
+<dwihno>        This is what it might be like :)
+<Zagor> you run old code
+<Zagor> it is seamless now
+<dwihno>        mkay
+<Bagder>        upgrade! ;-)
+<dwihno>        OLD?!
+<dwihno>        It's 24 hours old man! :)
+<dwihno>        Or perhaps 48
+<Zagor> yeah, i fixed that last night
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Zagor> that's stone-age code! :)
+<dwihno>        :-)
+<dwihno>        Did you take a peek at the LCD glitch?
+<Zagor> umm, remind me please?
+<dwihno>        When scrolling across pages, the LCD did glitch
+<dwihno>        Like old un-doublebuffered stuff :)
+<dwihno>        Where is your lamb btw?
+<Zagor> ah, well we don't know why that happens. and yes, it is single buffered. we don't have two.
+<Zagor> lamb?
+<dwihno>        yeah
+<dwihno>        http://www.jupither.net/dw/ <-- like that, on that page ;)
+<Bagder>        Zagor: you tried the id3 info Magnus mention on the list?
+<Bagder>        id3 info bug
+<Zagor> i haven't read my mail yet, doing it now
+<Bagder>        oh
+<dwihno>        R-r-r-roockboooox!
+<dwihno>        We need an anthem!
+<Bagder>        yeah, the boot song! ;-)
+<Zagor> brb
+<--     Zagor has quit ("Client Exiting")
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<dwihno>        Bagder: you got it! :)
+<dwihno>        The Rockbox-choir and the London philharmonic orchestra ,D
+<Bagder>        haahah
+<dwihno>        Maybe I can pull a few strings ;)
+<dwihno>        Get it?
+<dwihno>        Strings :)
+<dwihno>        *moo haw haw*
+<Bagder>        mr joker ;-)
+<dwihno>        :)
+<Bagder>        wooo, project activity stats on freshmeat
+<Zagor> really
+<Bagder>        I meant graphs
+<Zagor> "Rating: 8.54/10.00 (1 vote)"
+<Zagor> how can one vote give average 8.54?
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<dwihno>        Magic math (tm)
+<Bagder>        hey, I'm that single voter
+<Bagder>        on rockbox
+<Zagor> this virus epidemic is getting seriously annoying
+<Bagder>        Total (weighted)  8.54/10.00
+<Bagder>        "weighted" is the keyword I gues
+<Bagder>        guess
+<Bagder>        Zagor: yes, but cut down the allowed size and it won't be as troublesome
+<Zagor> good point. 50k max now
+<Bagder>        Klez virus mails are always >100K, at least those hundreds that I've got
+<Zagor> min plugin_teamkill funkar iaf, ser jag
+<Zagor> uh, wrong channel :(
+-->     jedix (~liam@fwott1-1.cis.ec.gc.ca) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        hey jedix
+<jedix> hey
+*       dwihno is rather happy now
+<dwihno>        4 of 5 projects are in the "no work to do" area of my list :D
+<Bagder>        and the fifth is "Implement asteroids on Rockbox" ?
+<Bagder>        :-P
+<dwihno>        hehe
+<dwihno>        not really
+<Bagder>        darn
+<dwihno>        I have no computer to work on sparetime projectgs
+<dwihno>        Which is rather nasty
+<dwihno>        I mean, I'm actually getting a tan! :(
+<Bagder>        sun gives you cancer
+<dwihno>        I know! I need some way to stay indoors!
+<Bagder>        compile, link, upload, flash, run, watch problem, edit, save => LOOP
+<Bagder>        (my whole day in summary)
+-->     liam_ (~liam@fwott1-1.cis.ec.gc.ca) has joined #rockbox
+---     liam_ is now known as jedix`
+<dwihno>        flash?
+<Bagder>        flash rom
+<dwihno>        mkay
+<Bagder>        I don't even have a debugger on my darned target
+<Bagder>        have to fill my code with printf()
+<dwihno>        What is the target hardware?
+<Bagder>        strongarm 1110
+<dwihno>        whoa
+<Bagder>        no, its no whoa ;-)
+<dwihno>        jees, it iis
+<jedix`>        timeout jedix
+<--     jedix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+---     jedix` is now known as JediX
+<JediX> whats new?
+---     JediX is now known as jedix
+<Bagder>        not very much
+---     dwihno is now known as dw|gone
+<Zagor> fixing randomize menu option now
+<Bagder>        neat
+<dw|gone>       NEATO ZAGOR! All your box are belong to rock!
+<dw|gone>       I'm off. Have a nice evening and try to stay indoors - the sun will cause cancer!
+<Bagder>        I'd suggest you call it "shuffle" and not random
+<Zagor> good idea
+<Zagor> where do I find the currently loaded list?
+<Bagder>        it's a global struct in playlist.c
+<Zagor> ok
+*       Zagor wants current_tick in simulator... :)
+<Zagor> i'll just use time() instead
+<Zagor> for seed
+<Bagder>        it doesn't really matter
+<Bagder>        just increase the current
+<Bagder>        or something
+<Zagor> i'll use the tick. otherwise it'll be the same every first time after boot
+<Bagder>        right
+<Zagor> oops, core in playlist
+<Zagor> after 1002 lines
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Bagder>        there's a 1000 max
+<Zagor> oh
+<Zagor> i thought it was 10000 ?
+<Bagder>        without any checks for it ;-)
+<Bagder>        yeah, but I just used one
+<Bagder>        raise it now
+<Zagor> will do
+<Zagor> adding check, too :)
+<Bagder>        wooo
+<Zagor> what's index_array used for? I don't see it
+<Bagder>        uh, remove ;-)
+<Zagor> ok
+<jedix> Zagor: why did you have to rewrite my scroll stuff?
+<Zagor> I chose a slightly different approach, that's all
+<Zagor> there was nothing wrong with your code
+<Zagor> to be able to do the new type of scroll, I sprintf the text into a string and then puts the string.
+<Zagor> for the new shuffle to be useful, we need a "next tracj" button
+<Zagor> track
+<Bagder>        we could use that for playlist without shuffle too ;-)
+<Zagor> yep
+<Zagor> too bad we are out of buttons :)
+<Bagder>        well
+<Bagder>        we should have a special "screen" for showing while playing a track, right? I mean if we're not browsing the tree?
+<Zagor> yes we should. so you could go in and out between the browser and this screen
+<Bagder>        right
+<Zagor> i.e. we need some UI work
+<Zagor> might want to save that for 1.2 though
+<Bagder>        fair enough
+<Bagder>        and if we play a track and idle in the tree browser, we could timeout back to the show-track-screen
+<Bagder>        which I believe the archos firmware does
+<Zagor> we could, but I'm not sure I'd want it to. definitely a configurable option :)
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        the play-screen will be useful since it'll give more control of back/skip and volume up/down
+<Bagder>        which isn't as easily available when tree browsing
+<Zagor> exactly
+<--     jb1081 has quit ("[x]chat")
+-->     jb1081 (~jb1081@lime.ircam.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        the shuffle menu should probably say something if no playlist was loaded
+<Zagor> right
+<Bagder>        I suspect people will do that
+<Bagder>        I wonder how fast the playlist loader is on target
+<Bagder>        I mean, compared to the original archos one
+<Zagor> i'd suspect somewhere in the order of 100 times faster :)
+<Bagder>        it would be really cool
+-->     edx (OKE60@pD9EAB848.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+<edx>   hi
+<Bagder>        hi!
+<edx>   hmm... (maybe a stupid question... but..) would it be possible to write a keybard driver for the jukebox so we can plug in a usb keyboard :?
+<Bagder>        no
+<edx>   too sad.. why not?
+<Bagder>        we can't use the USB for anything like that
+<edx>   for what reason?
+<Bagder>        it's out of reach
+<edx>   damn.
+<edx>   like a linux console on the recorder would rock ;)
+*       Bagder puts a curl release together
+<Zagor> we can connect a keyboard to the remote control port
+<edx>   hmm on the remote port... sounds good... :)
+<edx>   Then I would have to build my own remote port.. but for a keyboard - no problem :)
+<Zagor> you need to build a serial converter for the keyboard, but the rest should be simple
+<edx>   there are serial converter chips, right? (i dont have much knowledge about hardware unfortunately)
+<Zagor> yup. just like the gdb cable
+<Zagor> tested now. my 4500 line file takes about 5-6 seconds to load
+<Bagder>        that's just totally awesome
+<Zagor> indeed
+<Zagor> but it'll be faster with some simple adjustments to playlist.c
+<Bagder>        like what?
+<Zagor> it should be loading 512-byte blocks, not 255
+-->     elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder>        ah right
+<Zagor> fixing...
+<elinenbe>      'ello
+<edx>   lol ... now it takes like 5 secs for a 30 song playlist :P
+<edx>   hi
+<Bagder>        yeah, the stock firmware is shockingly slow at loading playlists
+<elinenbe>      painfully slow.
+<elinenbe>      so slow -- I usually take a dump, shower, and shave before it loads my 3 song playlist.
+<Zagor> also, we should accept both / and \ as separators. i suspect winamp creates files with \
+<Bagder>        elinenbe: Zagor just tested, we load a 4500 song playlist in 5-6 seconds
+<elinenbe>      that is great.
+<elinenbe>      we are now talking full disk shuffle?
+<Zagor> yes we are
+<Bagder>        yeah
+<Bagder>        Zagor: we might get problems with paths too when we talk about files created by external programs
+<Zagor> yep. C:\my music\...
+<Zagor> :)
+<Bagder>        yah
+<elinenbe>      I am just wondering...  what is the status on playing sound on the AJBR
+<Zagor> Linus is working on that
+<Bagder>        we should include Linus in our prayers ;-)
+-->     ironi (ironi@as2-5-7.j.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<elinenbe>      I was wondering... does anyone else ever get the reversed screen on the recorder?
+<Bagder>        hey ironi
+<Bagder>        reversed screen?
+<elinenbe>      even the rockbox bmp is reversed
+<ironi> Bagder: ?
+<ironi> hey Bagder
+<edx>   huhu?
+<Bagder>        gosh
+<ironi> Bagder: do u use emacs a lot?
+<elinenbe>      where everything is flipped.
+<Bagder>        ironi: nah, only 10-12 hours a day ;-P
+<ironi> Bagder: my irc script supports emacs commands
+<elinenbe>      like you are looking at a mirror image of the screnn.
+<ironi> isnt that totally elite
+<ironi> =)
+<Bagder>        elinenbe: and that happens every now or then or can you repeat it on demand?
+<elinenbe>      no, happens every now and then.
+<elinenbe>      not only is the screen mirrored, but it is offset about 16 pixels.
+<Bagder>        it sounds if there's some lcd init we dont do
+<elinenbe>      to the right.
+<elinenbe>      no... that happens with the archos fimrware too.
+<Bagder>        ah
+<elinenbe>      on the recorder.
+<Bagder>        then it might be a defect hardware perhaps
+<edx>   hm then thats a hardware bug (?)
+<elinenbe>      yeah I dont know if anyone else ever gets that.
+<edx>   i have a recorder. never ever got that.
+<Bagder>        I've never seen it either
+<ironi> i have a player, and I lvoe the double size text
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<ironi> the browsing and the scrolling are so FAST
+<ironi> i just love this
+<edx>   hehe
+<ironi> I want to contribute som uch
+<elinenbe>      is the double size text an option on the player rockbox?
+<Zagor> you have already: the web site!
+<ironi> but there is still an error with how directories are displayed, though.
+<ironi> at least for me
+<Bagder>        elinenbe: yeps
+<Zagor> elinenbe: the new models use it as logo
+<elinenbe>      nice :)
+<Zagor> ironi: what error is that?
+<ironi> Zagor: well let me try to explain
+<elinenbe>      the scrolling through a directory is quite slow on the recorder -- and there is quite a bit of flicker.
+<ironi> my dir that is called F-J
+<Zagor> elinenbe: yes, we're not sure why
+<ironi> is displayed as F-J1  q|| r
+<Zagor> ironi: which version is this?
+<ironi> but only whgen scrolling down
+<ironi> if i go down and go back up its F-J
+<ironi> Zagor: the latest?
+<ironi> i got it last night
+<Bagder>        this morning?
+<elinenbe>      I was wondering -- does this sound like something that is a good idea:  instead of scrolling only the title that the cursor is on, scroll everything on the current screen that is wider then the screen?
+<ironi> no last night
+<ironi> lemme get this mornings
+<Bagder>        ironi: please do
+<ironi> an optional go to usb mode yes/no would be pleasant
+<ironi> when plugging it in
+<Zagor> elinenbe: well, i have to ask "why?" :)
+<ironi> that would be terribly confusing on fast scroll
+<elinenbe>      well, lets say you have 10 songs named "Red Hot Chili Peppers - Songname 1
+<Zagor> hmm, maybe we should do the vertical recorder scroll using bitmap instead redrawing the chars
+<elinenbe>      "Red Hot Chili Peppers - Songname 2
+<elinenbe>      etc...
+<ironi> hm
+<Bagder>        Zagor: that's a good idea
+<Zagor> elinenbe: ah, you mean scroll all lines and not just one?
+<elinenbe>      and you want to play a certain one.
+<ironi> im thinking of something
+<elinenbe>      yes.
+<ironi> that moving through a dir in the player should give movement on every push
+<Zagor> we could try
+<elinenbe>      if it were a bitmap scroll, then couldn't you easily do pixel by pixel?
+<Zagor> elinenbe: yes we could
+<ironi> i.e. not just moving the arrow down if its on top when scrolling down the first one
+<ironi> it confuses me totally
+<Zagor> ironi: hehe. well yes there is lots of UI work left :)
+<Zagor> i have to go now, they're closing the office!
+<ironi> Zagor: can i be the UI general, please please please
+<Zagor> see you tomorrow, everyone
+<ironi> =)
+<ironi> ok so lets see the newset build
+<ironi> same error
+*       Bagder hands ironi the UI boss hat
+<ironi> hehe
+<ironi> i wan tso much to be in the credz =)
+<ironi> *waNNABE*
+<ironi> anyway
+<Zagor> we'll add you for the web site
+<ironi> hehe cool =)
+<ironi> anyway
+<ironi> the browsing should have a slight delay
+<Zagor> gotta run, bye
+<--     Zagor has quit ("Client Exiting")
+<elinenbe>      what do you mean by the browsing should have a slight delay?
+<elinenbe>      later.
+<ironi> cause now when i push i scroll by 3 rows like nothing
+<ironi> with a 2-row display this is very annoying
+<Bagder>        right
+<Bagder>        the buttons are a bit sensitive
+<ironi> yeahm, thats the least you could say
+<ironi> the scrolling should be settable from 1-10
+<ironi> everything over 15 is totally underadable, isnt it
+<Bagder>        ...not on the recorder ;-)
+<edx>   hehe ;)
+<ironi> the menu button should have like a 0.3 second delay when pushed
+<ironi> i.e. you need to hold it for that time
+*       edx looks down to his recorder and smiles..
+<ironi> to activate
+<elinenbe>      I like the recorder at 25
+<ironi> oh really? ok. well 5 is neat fo rme
+<ironi> 6 manybe
+<elinenbe>      is there any saving of values to the disk yet?
+<Bagder>        no
+<ironi> oh really
+<ironi> well how will this be saved?
+<elinenbe>      how si that going to be handled?
+<ironi> just a textfile
+<ironi> config file
+<ironi> is it possible to implement that
+<Bagder>        sure
+<ironi> cause hten we could move on and make a filehandler
+<elinenbe>      in an unused sector -- like the default firmware does it?
+<ironi> that can make dirs, copy, delete
+<ironi> =)))
+<ironi> hehe maybe a bit of an overkill
+<elinenbe>      I like the idea of an ascii config file.
+<ironi> i would love to be able to read txt-files
+<ironi> lovely to make notes for grocery shopping hah
+<Bagder>        contribution time!
+<ironi> it sahould be possible to make a game for the player too
+<ironi> am i wqrong or is the disk read alot shorter with rockbox firmware?
+<ironi> when entering new dirs
+<Bagder>        dunno
+<Bagder>        gotta run, see ya tomorrow
+<ironi> have you ever played arkanoid?
+<elinenbe>      later.
+<elinenbe>      go home.
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<ironi> that would be able to do on the player
+<ironi> =)
+<ironi> a vertical arcanoid
+<elinenbe>      that would be nice.
+<ironi> elinenbe: do you know how to set it up to be able to compile everyitng in windows?
+<elinenbe>      no.  I was messing around with it.
+<elinenbe>      but I guess over the last few days, a bunch has been done to it.
+<ironi> ok
+<elinenbe>      you need to use nmake.
+<ironi> i think i will do linux trough vmware maybe
+<ironi> kinda easier
+<elinenbe>      follow the directions on the web page -- they are easy to follow.
+<ironi> im more used to compile in linux so ill jsut stick to that
+<ironi> and play around with vmware at the same time hehe
+---     edx is now known as edx|homework
+<--     ironi has quit (" <k!15b8>")
+<--     jedix has quit ("brb")
+-->     jedix (~liam@fwott1-1.cis.ec.gc.ca) has joined #rockbox
+<elinenbe>      there is no auto-off in the AJBR Rockbox.
+---     WetBed is now known as Wettoad
+<elinenbe>      of course you know that already...
+<--     edx|homework has quit ("be right back")
+-->     edx (OKE60@pD9EAB848.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
+---     edx is now known as edx|studying
+<edx|studying>  hmmm does the recorder version play songs yet?
+-->     plmirc (xxxx@Mix-Puteaux-104-1-73.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<plmirc>        HI at All !
+<plmirc>        well... :-|
+<edx|studying>  yo
+---     edx|studying is now known as edx
+<plmirc>        Bye at all...
+<edx>   bye
+<plmirc>        :)
+<edx>   lol
+<--     plmirc (xxxx@Mix-Puteaux-104-1-73.abo.wanadoo.fr) has left #rockbox
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<--     jedix has quit ("gone")
+-->     Zagor (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<edx>   rehi ;)
+<Zagor> hi
+<edx>   Zagor: does the playback work on the recorder?
+<Zagor> not yet
+<edx>   k
+<edx>   (didnt work for me.. that's why i'm asking)
+<edx>   i modified the makefile so it compiles on windows (but it wont compile on linux with that makefile anymore..)
+<edx>   we gotta make a makefile for windows & linux
+<edx>   (not now.. sometime later.. ;) )
+<Zagor> what did you change?
+<edx>   i removed the dependency stuff
+<Zagor> oh...
+<edx>   (scripting does not work in windows..)
+<edx>   no sh.exe
+<Zagor> i know
+<edx>   at least i get a compiled file that actually works...
+<edx>   we could also create a makefile.win32 or something (for win32 users who want to compile the firmware..)
+<Zagor> yes
+<edx>   maybe that will be easier than having a linwin file...
+<edx>   also, i think the if statements dont work under windows.
+<edx>   (i had to remove them to get the recorder code compiled..)
+<Zagor> are you using nmake?
+<edx>   no
+<edx>   i use the make that comes with the GNUSH tool chain
+<edx>   nmake really is a whole different story
+<Zagor> what does "make --version" report?
+<edx>   GNU Make version 3.78.1, by Richard Stallman and Roland McGrath.
+<edx>   Built for Windows32
+<Zagor> what does it say when you have the if lines?
+<edx>   nothing, it just does not do what inside the if lines...
+<edx>   (though it should)
+<edx>   what = what is
+<Zagor> ok
+<edx>   how far is rolo btw (is it even developed at the moment?)
+<Zagor> no, we haven't started with it yet.
+<edx>   ok... because if we had that I could at least put rockbox on there to play (and still listen to music heheh)
+<edx>   right now rolo will play a pretty important role, specially for those people who are unsure whether to use rockbox or the archos mod
+<Zagor> i know, i want rolo too. it's just we don't have unlimited manpower :)
+<edx>   true.
+<edx>   If I could i'd help but I guess I have to little low-level experience...
+<edx>   the file must be read to ram and then.. the instruction pointer set to that location (correct me if i am totally wrong)
+<Zagor> your helping very much already, with the win32 stuff
+<Zagor> yes, but there are "a few" other things too :)
+<edx>   (yea.. must be the correct place in ram etc..)
+<edx>   and the rolo must be deleted out of ram i guess (because the archos mod wants to use all of the ram and is designed for that i guess)
+<edx>   anyways.. nice revery hehe
+<Zagor> yes, rolo will be overwritten by the mod
+<edx>   ok
+<edx>   i gotta get some sleep... last class test for this school year tomorrow :D
+<edx>   cya all
+<Zagor> bye
+<--     edx has quit ("good night")
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      so who thinks they might want to get rolo rolling?
+-->     g003y (~foo@m198-187.dsl.rawbw.com) has joined #rockbox
+<g003y> heya all
+<PsycoXul>      hi
+-->     Zagor_ (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<--     Zagor has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+---     Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
+<g003y> I always have to go back to that dang nick reference :D
+<Zagor> hehe
+<g003y> you guys on the other side of the pond are still up?
+<Zagor> I'd like to use "Bjorn", but unfortunately it's registered to someone else
+<Zagor> yeah, it's 22:55 here
+<g003y> yeah I just randomly typed g003y into trillian :D
+<Zagor> hehe
+<g003y> Zagor - Bagder told me to get an SF account setup and talk to you about getting ssh cvs access.
+<g003y> you the man for that ?
+<Zagor> yep
+<g003y> cool
+<g003y> I've been working on some stuff locally
+<Zagor> yeah?
+<g003y> playing around with displaying filenames and such as songs play
+<g003y> getting my head around the api
+<g003y> more apps stuff
+<Zagor> ok, nice
+<g003y> I'm not a hardware guy like all yousese :D.  But I know C and applications :D
+<g003y> anyway I was looking at adding a real primitive display format
+<g003y> right now I can compile with support for scrolling the filename or using the current behavior
+<g003y> it actually works nicely thanks to those wonderful scrolling apis :D
+<Zagor> :)
+<g003y> so I was thinking of having just a couple of different things we can support
+<g003y> with playing file display
+<Zagor> sure
+<g003y> id3 info being one
+<g003y> scrolling filename being another
+<g003y> but potentially a way to instruct the play how to disect your filename/directory structure to build id3 like information on the screen
+<g003y> play == player
+<Zagor> yes, that'd be good
+<g003y> but the real question right now is....
+<g003y> should I make it a compiled in option or something that could be configured through settings?
+<Zagor> settings, definitely
+<g003y> ok cool.  
+<g003y> that is how I would prefer it
+<g003y> anyway I will get an sf account email ya
+<Zagor> ok
+<g003y> BTW - your cross compiler buld instructions worked first shot for me.
+<Zagor> nice!
+<g003y> took me about 5 minutes to get up and running
+<g003y> I'm on win32 using cygwin as well
+<g003y> one other question for you.  Whats the deal with the battery display?  I've only started logging recently and haven't dug through all the old logs yet
+<Zagor> we have no battery display yet
+<g003y> I noticed :D
+<g003y> but is it an unknown thing 
+<Zagor> measuring battery capacity is a whole science in itself
+<g003y> ahhh
+<Zagor> so we're putting that off a bit until the basic stuff works
+<g003y> cool
+<elinenbe>      g003y: how do you use the make files in win32?
+<g003y> I do everything through the bash shell cygwin provides
+<g003y> so technically I use the *nix like make
+<g003y> but if you're attempting the uisimulator compile then you need to use nmake
+<g003y> from a dos window
+<elinenbe>      oh -- how does that work?  I am not familiar with the bash shell that comew with cygwin
+<elinenbe>      did you download the source tarball or use wincvs
+<g003y> are you just trying to get the firmware configured?
+<g003y> I sync to current with wincvs
+<g003y> but I started with the tarballs
+<elinenbe>      well, I want to be able to compile the firmware.
+<g003y> ok
+<g003y> cygwin gives you a little batch file you double click
+<g003y> that gives you a shell right?  That is bash 
+<g003y> from there you would build the cross compiler as Bjorn has put together on the website
+<elinenbe>      I know bash and linux
+<g003y> I tried the GNU-SH toolkit, but it just wasn't cutting it for me
+<g003y> ok good well cygwin gives you the same stuff basically
+<elinenbe>      I was just unfamiliar with the bash shell that is makes for windows.
+<g003y> it's close, but not exactly the same
+<g003y> just use the batch file they plop on the desktop and it will put you in your home directory
+<g003y> from there it will feel more familiar
+<elinenbe>      ok
+<g003y> setup all your normal include stuff and everything
+<elinenbe>      did you just follow the directions on the web page?
+<g003y> then just do the configure & compile
+<elinenbe>      http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/sh-win/
+<g003y> yeah except
+<g003y> no not that one
+<g003y> I couldn't get compiles to work with that tool kit
+<elinenbe>      not what?
+<elinenbe>      oh, so what toolkit did you use?
+<g003y> http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/cross-gcc.html
+<g003y> I followed those directions
+<g003y> inside of a cygwin win32 bash shell
+<g003y> GNU-SH just wouldn't fly for me
+<elinenbe>      well, where did you dl the cygwin bash shell.
+<elinenbe>      ?
+<g003y> http://www.cgywin.org/
+<g003y> just go for the installer
+<elinenbe>      ok.  thanks so much.
+<g003y> get the packages you need to get yourself started
+<g003y> though you won't need newlib compiled in
+<g003y> so you can drop that bit 
+<g003y> after cygwin does it's thing you will need to recompile gcc with the sh1 extensions
+<elinenbe>      the page you speak of is http://www.cygwin.com/
+<elinenbe>      ok
+<g003y> oh yeah d....o....t....com
+<g003y> :D
+<g003y> anyway you will need gcc to get to gcc 3.x with sh1
+<elinenbe>      so, you just downloaded the gcc and installed as per insturction on http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/cross-gcc.html?
+<g003y> yup
+<g003y> minus newlib
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<PsycoXul>      why not newlib?
+<Zagor> we aren't using it any more
+<PsycoXul>      ah
+<PsycoXul>      cool
+<g003y> IDK - I saw on the mailing list not to use it
+<Zagor> just a few header files are still needed
+<g003y> there ya go :D
+<elinenbe>      ok -- great.  Thanks so much.
+<g003y> no prob
+-->     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> hey bro
+<Bagder>        hey
+<g003y> heh... so you guys are related?
+<Zagor> yeah, we're brothers
+<Zagor> the playlist loader reads around 1000 lines per second. that's not bad!
+<g003y> thats pretty damn good
+<Bagder>        it's so darned cool
+<Zagor> sure is
+<Bagder>        so the shuffle stuff works now?
+<Zagor> umm, haven't tried it yet. the batteries in my player are empty (and the charger circuit is busted)
+<Zagor> i have only tested on the recorder so far
+<Zagor> it should go even faster on the player, since it's clocked faster
+<Zagor> not very much, though
+<Bagder>        about 9%
+<g003y> I'll give it a try tonight when I recompile
+<g003y> I have a player
+<Bagder>        neato
+<Zagor> ok
+<Bagder>        we need the playlist tested a bit
+<g003y> I'm just at my day job right now coding less interesting crap
+<Bagder>        g003y: so what kind of stuff do you work with?
+<g003y> a mixture of win32 & *nixes
+<g003y> C, perl asp... whatever needs to be done mostly
+<g003y> most of our FEs are IIS
+<Zagor> ueck :)
+<g003y> but lots of the behind the scenes is unixy
+<g003y> hey I even hop on the g4 once and awhile to pretend I have a flipper for the mouse button :D
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Bagder>        :-)
+<Bagder>        http://freshmeat.net/stats/#vitality
+*       Bagder smiles
+<Zagor> hehe
+<g003y> I don't see rockbox there yet :D
+<g003y> j (score: 44,252 - 36.97%)
+<g003y> A programmer's editor written in Java.
+<g003y> that is up there, but VI or VIM is not?
+<Zagor> it's a new rating system, there hasn't been a lot of votes yet
+<g003y> ahhhhh... gotcha
+<Bagder>        vitality isn't based on that
+<Zagor> ah, yes that was vitality
+<Bagder>        but it requires rather frequent releases
+<Zagor> vi has vitality 0.01% :)
+<g003y> gotcha
+<Zagor> vim is at 0.51%
+<Bagder>        so more stable projects tend to get less "vital"
+<Zagor> rockbox is at 0.00
+<g003y> well how is popularity rated?
+<Bagder>        I honestly don't know how any of those numbers are calculated
+<Zagor> "The popularity score superseded the old counters for record hits, URL hits and subscriptions. Popularity is calculated as (record hits * URL hits * (subscriptions + 1))^(1/3)."
+<Bagder>        oh
+<Bagder>        curl =  Popularity: 12.84% (Rank 100)
+<Zagor> "The vitality score for a project is calculated  like this: (announcements * age) / (last_announcement)"
+<g003y> oh there is the link I was looking for that zagor kindly regurigiated for me :D
+<Zagor> hehe
+*       Zagor is trying to get used to mutt...
+<g003y> mutt is nice
+<g003y> unfortunately I haven't converted yet
+<Zagor> i've used elm and thenpine for the last 10 years, so it's hard for me to change
+<Bagder>        I've built my whole life around pine ;-)
+<g003y> hahahahahaha
+<Bagder>        Zagor: so what's left for a 1.1 release?
+<Zagor> nothing, really. I just want to test it a bit more.
+<Bagder>        ok
+<Bagder>        just checking ;-)
+<Zagor> i'm thinking maybe "Shuffle" should be an "on/off" option rather than an action
+<Bagder>        yes
+<Bagder>        and possible a "reshuffle" as an action
+<Zagor> so you set it before you start the playlist
+<Bagder>        possibly
+<Zagor> yeah
+<Bagder>        did you time the shuffle of 4500 songs?
+<Bagder>        or didn't you try it?
+<Zagor> i did. 5120 songs takes just under 5 seconds
+<Bagder>        yes, to read from a file, right?
+<Zagor> oh, the shuffle. hang on...
+<Bagder>        I meant only the shuffle part
+<Zagor> it's very quick. sub-second i think
+<Bagder>        that is great
+<Zagor> tested now. it's like 0.5 seconds.
+<g003y> schweet
+<Bagder>        it makes me feel really warm inside that our thoughs prove to be working so good
+<Zagor> yes, i agree
+<Zagor> and this means 1.1 will be a real alternative for some people. still very unpolished, but with one killer feature
+<Bagder>        yeah
+<g003y> shuffle that blows archos' effort out of the water?
+<Zagor> fast and big playlists
+<g003y> I thought you were talking just shuffle there
+<Zagor> archos don't do shuffling like this, so there's no real comparison.
+<g003y> another killer feature?
+<Zagor> but they do load playlists, at a horrible speed
+<g003y> the playlist stuff is horrible on theirs
+<Zagor> the huge playlist support is our killer feature
+<g003y> they've got features, but sacrificed speed
+<g003y> yeah thats great
+<PsycoXul>      whats its limit? memory? heh
+<PsycoXul>      or hd space?
+<PsycoXul>      or what
+<Zagor> we set a 10000 entry limit
+<Bagder>        they probably just do it "The Wrong Way"
+<Zagor> memory is the limit, since we need to hold one integer per entry
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<g003y> I thought the integer solution was quite crafty.
+<g003y> I believe archos is doing something far nastier with memory usage
+<Zagor> I like it
+<Zagor> oooh yes...
+<Bagder>        just watching the time it takes to load a playlist indicates something really nasty
+<g003y> so have any of the archos ppl contacted the group about this project in any way?
+<Zagor> nope
+<Zagor> they ignore us vehemently :)
+<g003y> you're making their dev team look bad :D
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Bagder>        we've gone from completely *nothing* to this point in ~6 months
+<g003y> fricking good stuff :)
+<Zagor> all the code is written since april...
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        can you run a simulated player?
+<Zagor> yes
+<Bagder>        it just died so hard on me
+<Zagor> but I get a lot of those X errors
+<Bagder>        I can't even close gdb now!
+<Bagder>        The program is running.  Exit anyway? (y or n) y
+<Zagor> that happened to me too the other day
+<Bagder>        Error accessing memory address 0x4018d664: No such process.
+<g003y> doh!
+<Zagor> ouch
+<Bagder>        had to kill it manually from another terminal
+<Bagder>        hm
+<g003y> ok
+<g003y> sorry wrong window :D
+<g003y> dang trillian makes that stuff confusing :D
+<Bagder>        it just does not work here
+<Zagor> odd
+<Bagder>        all I see is the initial screen
+<Bagder>        and nothing more happens
+<Zagor> trillian hung a win2k box solid for me the other day. i ain't touching that stuff again :)
+<Bagder>        "ROCKbox" "CVS"
+<g003y> I run trillian on win2k connected to IRC, AIM, ICQ and YIM.  I can't live without it anymore :D
+<Bagder>        but the recorder version runs just fine
+<Bagder>        how do I switch thread in gdb?
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Bagder>        no archos dir
+<Zagor> moooh
+<Bagder>        I made one now
+<Bagder>        and...
+<Bagder>        Segmentation fault (core dumped)
+<g003y> bomb baby bomb!
+<Zagor> it shouldn't crash so hard for that
+<g003y> user error? :D
+<Bagder>        lcd_puts_scroll()
+<Bagder>        #0  0x401ed897 in strlen (str=0x1 <Address 0x1 out of bounds>)
+<Bagder>            at ../sysdeps/i386/strlen.c:27
+<Bagder>        #1  0x804e8e1 in lcd_puts (x=1, y=0, str=0x1 <Address 0x1 out of bounds>)
+<Bagder>            at ../../firmware/drivers/lcd.c:501
+<Bagder>        #2  0x804f04f in lcd_puts_scroll (x=1, y=0, 
+<Bagder>            string=0x1 <Address 0x1 out of bounds>) at ../../firmware/drivers/lcd.c:773
+<Bagder>        #3  0x804d37e in dirbrowse (root=0x8050e7f "/") at ../../apps/tree.c:243
+<elinenbe>      later guys.  you fucking rock!  (off to do some database modelling and design!)
+<Bagder>        see ya elinenbe
+<g003y> cya
+<Bagder>        Zagor: I have a completely empty dir
+<Zagor> i'll test
+<Zagor> i got the crash too
+<Bagder>        tree.c line 243
+<Zagor> ah, of course. silly me
+<Zagor> any empty dir will crash it
+<Bagder>        yeah
+<Zagor> fixed
+*       Bagder updates
+<Bagder>        better
+<Bagder>        but what is the question mark doing there?
+<Zagor> it's the cursor
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Zagor> special char on player
+<Bagder>        we should fake that better in the simulator
+<Zagor> yup
+<Zagor> i also want icons in the player simulator soon...
+<Bagder>        true
+<Bagder>        shouldn't be too hard
+<Bagder>        I like the scroll
+<Zagor> yeah, it's nice. your idea was better.
+<Bagder>        I think so too, it fills better
+<Zagor> the code is actually simpler for this scroll than the previous model
+<PsycoXul>      hey somebody wanna post a current-cvs new-player build i can try out? i haven't messed with it since i went on vacation
+<Zagor> sure
+<Zagor> http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/player/archos.mod
+<PsycoXul>      thanks
+<PsycoXul>      hmm ok
+<PsycoXul>      that doesn't update the LCD at all after the rom firmware boot screen
+<Bagder>        wrong lcd version?
+<Zagor> uh, it doesn't?
+<Zagor> duh, I gave you an old player version. sorry
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Zagor> grab it again
+<PsycoXul>      nice
+<Zagor> try starting a playlist
+<g003y> that mod for the 4.50+ player hardware?
+<Zagor> yup
+<PsycoXul>      ok
+<PsycoXul>      i've only got a couple of short playlists saved on here heh
+<Bagder>        booo ;-)
+<g003y> get those perl scripts out :D
+<PsycoXul>      i'm not one for listening to the same set over again
+<PsycoXul>      :p
+<Bagder>        hehe
+<Zagor> make a list of the whole disk
+<PsycoXul>      how do you start the playlist?
+<Bagder>        play
+<g003y> ha!
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<g003y> no go?
+<PsycoXul>      it just says loading nnn files, complete
+<PsycoXul>      and thats it
+<Zagor> doesn't start playing?
+<PsycoXul>      no
+<g003y> format of playlist affect it?
+<Zagor> the display isn't supposed to say title or anything. but it's supposed to play the files.
+<Zagor> odd. works in the sim
+<PsycoXul>      they're playlists that archos' firmware saved
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Bagder>        they should be fine
+<Zagor> ah, how did you make those playlists?
+<g003y> _should_ is the keyword in that sentence
+<Bagder>        hehe, of course
+<Zagor> i bet there are backslashes and/or disk names in there?
+<Bagder>        I don't think so
+<Bagder>        mine didn't
+<g003y> zagor - what format does the code expect?
+<PsycoXul>      lemme look at what they look like
+<Bagder>        normal / slash
+<Zagor> forward slashes, no C: 
+<g003y> CR-LF combo?
+<g003y> or just LF?
+<Bagder>        either way
+<Bagder>        ah
+<Bagder>        its broke
+<g003y> I was just about to try it, but not now :D
+<PsycoXul>      ./Nine Inch Nails/The Fragile/Left/01 - somewhat damaged.mp3
+<Zagor> kill the leading dot
+<Bagder>        initial dot huh? :-)
+<Bagder>        Zagor: the code doesn't work with CRLF right now
+<Zagor> ok
+<PsycoXul>      heh that shouldn't be a problem :p 
+<PsycoXul>      and they're dos format text too
+*       PsycoXul makes a whole-disk playlist
+<PsycoXul>      oh damnit whats find's problem
+*       PsycoXul runs it through sort
+<PsycoXul>      thats better
+<PsycoXul>      i noticed directories that start with a . don't show up in the browser
+<Zagor> you can't have that in fat32, can you?
+<PsycoXul>      yeah i've got a few of them
+<PsycoXul>      just cause they also don't show up in archos' browser and they have either oggs or mp3's that are silent for no apparent reason on the archos [or maybe just with archos' firmware, i haven't tried them with rockbox]
+<Zagor> ok
+<Zagor> i need to test that. we don't do any filtering so that's a bug
+<Bagder>        Zagor: is the fs code totally case insensitive?
+<Zagor> it should be, but there may be bugs
+<Bagder>        ok
+<Bagder>        it just struck me
+<Zagor> umm, no. it's totally sensitive
+<Zagor> bad move :)
+<Bagder>        dang
+<Zagor> buh, now we need to add strnicmp to common/
+<Bagder>        heh
+<Bagder>        strncasecmp() ?
+<Zagor> yes
+<Bagder>        (I'm just nitpicking on the name)
+<Zagor> i know :)
+<PsycoXul>      ok my complete playlist ends up 2641 tracks
+<Zagor> try loading it. you'll like it :)
+<Bagder>        ok, I'm off. See ya mañana
+<--     Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<PsycoXul>      still doesn't play
+<PsycoXul>      /Ac-Dc/Back In Black/01-Hells Bells.mp3
+<PsycoXul>      format, unix-style text
+<Zagor> ok
+<PsycoXul>      hmm after i started playing a file and pressing stop to go back to the browser, the ui sorta paused with a jerky scroll of the file it was on, for a second or two before letting me do anything
+<g003y> different question (sorry to hijack) - Is there a way to go back to the playing display after exiting back to the browser?
+<PsycoXul>      and bass over 70% has nasty clipping on this AC/DC song heh, even at lower volumes
+<PsycoXul>      g003y: thats a good question
+<PsycoXul>      and there's still random files that get displayed with junk names
+<PsycoXul>      directories anyways i dunno about files actualy
+<Zagor> g003y: currently there is no way to do that
+<Zagor> PsycoXul: that might be short FAT names. I haven't been able to test those much.
+<g003y> zagor - hmm... how about like a fetaure that returns to it when a user has idled on pressing buttons or would that be overdoing it?
+<Zagor> i don't like the machine to decide things on its own. i think a simple toggle button is better
+<g003y> I believe button combos are precious on the player.
+<g003y> ok
+<g003y> sounds fair to me
+<PsycoXul>      i think this one is called 'disc 2 misc' or something i dunno about the white spaces or if tehy're -'s or _'s, i forget, but it displays as 'isk_2_-_02_-_'
+<Zagor> check to be sure
+<PsycoXul>      oh i've probably got it on the playlist i've just made so i can look at that heh
+<PsycoXul>      ah its actualy 'disc3-misc'
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<Zagor> and how is it displayed?
+<PsycoXul>      'isk_2_-_02_0_'
+<PsycoXul>      er
+<PsycoXul>      'isk_2_-_02_-_'
+<Zagor> veeery odd
+<PsycoXul>      yeah and 'Beck' is displayed as 'Ozzy.m3u.m3u'
+<g003y> left over buffer garbage?
+<Zagor> looks like it, yeah
+<PsycoXul>      and 'Adam Sandler' is 'HMC1 Y?? U?' the ?'s actualy being little 3's as if they're being cubed heh
+<Zagor> it's the fat32 driver
+<g003y> psyco- is that only happening on playlists for you?
+<PsycoXul>      no its the display of these directories in the browser
+<g003y> oh sorry
+<PsycoXul>      and these funky names are consistant
+<g003y> I thought it was the filenames
+<PsycoXul>      they're always these heh
+<g003y> heh... well at least it's consistent
+<PsycoXul>      though the adam sandler one the little 3's used to be other chars in older rockbox versions heh
+<g003y> I think zagor is jamming over some fat32 code right now as we speak :D
+<Zagor> what, me? :)
+<PsycoXul>      oh 'Misc-junk' also displays as 'Pilots.m3u'
+<PsycoXul>      and you know whatever else heh
+<PsycoXul>      hmm
+<PsycoXul>      and i go into the recycled dir
+<PsycoXul>      where theres some wav files
+<PsycoXul>      and i select one
+<PsycoXul>      and then stop it
+<Zagor> this is not short-name issues. misc-junk is 9 chars == longname
+<PsycoXul>      and then press stop again to leave the recycled dir
+<PsycoXul>      and i get DH0 DH1 and INFO2 
+<PsycoXul>      displayed in the browser
+<Zagor> eh?
+<g003y> I'm trying to reproduce it right now, but not much luck here
+<PsycoXul>      ok its also sometimes just going into the recycled dir
+<PsycoXul>      and sometimes leaving it
+<PsycoXul>      hmm unless they're actualy in there and the bounce is putting me into the first one
+<Zagor> well I need to gdb this, so it'll have to wait until the morning
+<PsycoXul>      ok i think thats whats going on with the DH0 DH1 and INFO2 things is just that i didn't see them there at first because of the button sensitivity so disregard that one
+<Zagor> ok, good
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+<PsycoXul>      well there most of them came back
+<adi|work>      jesus..
+<adi|work>      just tested the playlist with 2000 line file
+<adi|work>      that sucker flys :)
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<PsycoXul>      Loadding...
+<adi|work>      and i love the variable scroll
+<PsycoXul>      Complete.
+<PsycoXul>      2641 files
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<adi|work>      hehe i don't even see the Loading in the sim ;)
+<PsycoXul>      i just wish this playlist would actualy
+<PsycoXul>      you know...
+<PsycoXul>      play
+<PsycoXul>      :p
+<adi|work>      heheh hmmm odd
+<PsycoXul>      yeah it just loads
+<adi|work>      shuffle core dumps the sim
+<PsycoXul>      here it says "Shuffling..
+<PsycoXul>      Done."
+<adi|work>      yeah.. but i let it go and it cores...
+<PsycoXul>      damn
+<PsycoXul>      even at 70% bass i get some clipping
+<adi|work>      on the player?
+<PsycoXul>      yeah
+<PsycoXul>      what happened man... heh
+<adi|work>      ahh.. i only have recorder :(
+<PsycoXul>      last day of last month i tried it
+<PsycoXul>      and the browser was a little slow but there was no oversensitivity
+<PsycoXul>      and you could crank the bass all the way without any clipping and it sounded good
+<PsycoXul>      now its all oversensitive and clipping in the bass heh
+<adi|work>      hehehe fix it ;)
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+<PsycoXul>      this one soundtrack too, the first track locks rockbox up
+<PsycoXul>      tried it like 3 or 4 times
+<adi|work>      hehehe
+<PsycoXul>      just freezes with the browser display still on it
+<PsycoXul>      yeah it is odd, the rest of the tracks in it seem to work fine
+<adi|work>      we're violating memory somewhere in the sim...
+<adi|work>      tracking it down
+<PsycoXul>      so like i think from interface end that it'd be nice if it wants to stay in the playing-file-info-display while its playing
+<PsycoXul>      and stop from there will stop it and return to browser while some other button or combo can switch between that and the browser while its still playing
+<PsycoXul>      at least on the player, i know the recorder's got different buttons so it can behave different ways appropriate to it, but this makes sense to me on the player
+<adi|work>      damn it.. i dont know what it is...
+<adi|work>      but the sim is definatly bugging out
+-->     elinenbe|school (elinenbe@sinan.ummu.umich.edu) has joined #rockbox
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+<PsycoXul>      so yeah i should like make some animated icons for the player or something 
+<PsycoXul>      hmm the firmware's shutoff in archos' firmware is faster than the hard one that works with rockbox
+-->     g003y (~foo@m198-187.dsl.rawbw.com) has joined #rockbox
+<g003y> ahh back again :D
+<g003y> psyco - did you get that garbage display resolved?
+<adi|work>      umm... day before last i think
+<g003y> he was having a problem earlier though
+<g003y> today that is
+<PsycoXul>      well i think zagor was looking into it
+<PsycoXul>      or not
+<PsycoXul>      but there was a split and when it returned he didn't come back with it
+<PsycoXul>      heh
+<PsycoXul>      so i dunno whats going on
+<g003y> oh ok
+<g003y> I wasn't able to reproduce it, but I don't think I followed your steps exactly
+<PsycoXul>      er? steps?
+<PsycoXul>      the problem is with some directories
+<g003y> only some.... hmmmm
+<PsycoXul>      right
+<PsycoXul>      a few of them display weird things instead of what they are
+<PsycoXul>      and the weird things they display are always the same, between reboots, different compiles, different versions, etc
+<PsycoXul>      except one of them has changed a little between versions
+<g003y> hmmmm.... very strange.  I was trying to see it happen on my player, but no go
+<g003y> ah well Zagor will figure it out :D
+<--     g003y (~foo@m198-187.dsl.rawbw.com) has left #rockbox
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+<dwihno>        hello gooey
+<g003y> heya
+<dwihno>        waaazaaaap? :)
+<g003y> just trying to get a sourceforge account
+<g003y> but I didn't have my alias right so I imagine the verification email bounced or is relaying somewhere :D
+<dwihno>        oops :)
+<g003y> heh... thats what I get for having two alias files :D.  damn backups.
+<dwihno>        yeah, backups are a pain in the ass ;)
+<g003y> hehehe
+<g003y> guess I will just wait and see what happens.
+<dwihno>        yeah
+<dwihno>        Have you done any productive stuff for rockbox? :)
+<g003y> not today
+<g003y> I'm trying to get my account setup so I can submit what I have at least 
+<g003y> talked with Zagor and he liked my ideas
+<g003y> so I guess I will jam some code soon
+<g003y> that and try to finish gta3 one day :D
+<dwihno>        ah
+<dwihno>        gta3? is it possible to finish that game? :)
+<g003y> man... I tell ya.  it always ends up in a game of how long can I live with x number of stars :D
+<g003y> I'm still only on the second island
+<dwihno>        Island?
+<dwihno>        Hmm
+<dwihno>        I haven't even played it ;)
+<g003y> ahhh
+<g003y> worth a play at least once
+*       dwihno has not even got a computer anymore
+<g003y> what are you in a lab or something?
+<dwihno>        nope, work :)
+<dwihno>        or whateveryoucallit ;)
+<g003y> no computer man.  I feel for ya
+<g003y> ghahahahah
+<g003y> the spice mines
+<dwihno>        hehe
+<dwihno>        I'm awaiting money from an invoice...
+<dwihno>        Then I'll get myself a kick-arse-evil-shiznat portable thingy
+<g003y> ahhhh... you waiting on the ones with the nice nvidia/ati 3d cards in them?
+<g003y> or something even more portable than a laptop?
+<dwihno>        Nah, it's a laptop alright
+<dwihno>        With a geforce4 go chip
+<dwihno>        I can't live without q3a! :)
+<g003y> oh yeah thats sweet
+<dwihno>        But I've been waiting for this invoice for almost a month now and I'm running out of patience
+<elinenbe>      dwihno: I just got the toshiba 5105-s607 and it is incredible
+<g003y> geez.... surely it isn't hard to pay up.
+<dwihno>        elinenbe: That purple thing?
+<elinenbe>      well, more blue, but it is incredible
+<dwihno>        Yeah
+<elinenbe>      except for the battery life.
+<dwihno>        I bet it is :)
+<elinenbe>      that is the only thing I could complain about.
+<dwihno>        It's a monster! :)
+<elinenbe>      It is great.
+<dwihno>        It's perversion at its greatest ;)
+<elinenbe>      much faster/better/etc. then my old HUGE tower.
+<dwihno>        What is the hardware specs?
+<elinenbe>      1.7 P4 mobile
+<elinenbe>      512 ram
+<elinenbe>      40 gig hard drive
+<dwihno>        sweet stuff :)~
+<elinenbe>      15 inch 1600x1200 resolution monitor (easily the sharpest brightest monitor I have EVER used)
+<g003y> oh yeah.... you guys are making me horny with those specs :D
+<elinenbe>      and I have had a 21 inch flat screen sony for a while.
+<dwihno>        :)
+<elinenbe>      flat CRT that is...
+<elinenbe>      GREAT speakers including a SUBWOOFER!! (no joke!)
+<elinenbe>      it is just incredible.
+<elinenbe>      I went through 3 laptops getting this one.
+<dwihno>        The dell-box I'm gonna get is a 1.6 P4-M, 512 RAM, 30 (or 40) gig drive.... And 1400xsomething screen
+<elinenbe>      first a HP, then a Gateway, then this.
+<elinenbe>      and this is BY far the best.
+<elinenbe>      8x dvd/cdr/cdrw
+<elinenbe>      usually 1450x1200
+<elinenbe>      or something like that
+<g003y> they do laptops with tfts at 1450x1200?
+<dwihno>        yeah
+<g003y> fucking eh
+<dwihno>        15.1" something
+<g003y> thats almost 1600x1200
+<g003y> and it all fits in a backpack :/
+<g003y> that just owns
+<dwihno>        yeah
+<dwihno>        But as everything else, there is a pricetag :(
+<dwihno>        I would get that toshiba if I was rich & famous
+<g003y> yeah I know... thats the hard part
+<g003y> hahahahahaha
+<dwihno>        But I'm neither rich or famous, so I guess the Dell will be perfect for me ;)
+<g003y> if I was rich and famous I'd have one of each in the computing world :D
+<elinenbe>      my laptop here is 1600x1200
+<elinenbe>      15.1 screen
+<elinenbe>      it is incredible.
+<dwihno>        :)~
+<dwihno>        Hey, you really know how to pickup ladies at the bar ;D
+<dwihno>        "I got myself a Toshiba evil laptop thingy!"
+<dwihno>        "Whoa, lemme see!"
+<g003y> "you wanna see my 15.1" baby?"
+<dwihno>        :)
+<dwihno>        Damn
+<dwihno>        Windows won't let me start indesign
+<dwihno>        *look through the process list for fishyness*
+<elinenbe>      on recorder: about 1.5 seconds for a 5000 song playlist, and then instant shuffle!
+<elinenbe>      wow!
+<dwihno>        whoa!
+<g003y> my playlist won't play though :(
+<dwihno>        KICK-ARSE!
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jun 14 00:29:46 2002
+