four new logs

git-svn-id: svn://svn.rockbox.org/rockbox/trunk@152 a1c6a512-1295-4272-9138-f99709370657

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diff --git a/www/irc/rockbox-20020416.log b/www/irc/rockbox-20020416.log
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+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Apr 16 07:32:17 2002
+
+--> Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+--- Topic for #rockbox is Open Source Jukebox Firmware - http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+--- Topic for #rockbox set by Zagor at Fri Apr 12 15:45:52
+--> adiamas (~adiamas@216.194.26.214) has joined #rockbox
+--> Zagor2 (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+--- Zagor2 is now known as Zagor
+--> Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+--- Bagder gives channel operator status to Zagor
+--- Bagder gives channel operator status to Linus
+<Bagder> $ mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/archos
+<Bagder> mount: /dev/sda1 is not a valid block device
+<Bagder> everything's the same as with my previous usb stuff
+<Bagder> I only added the EHCI module
+<Zagor> what does the kernel log look like when you plug in the device?
+<Bagder> hub.c: USB new device connect on bus1/4, assigned device number 2
+<Linus> Bagder: how is the Recorder formatted?
+<Linus> or rather partitioned?
+<Bagder> there's no difference 
+<Bagder> it worked with my usb1.1
+<Linus> Have you tried /dev/hda?
+<Linus> And what sayeth your /proc filesystem?
+<Linus> I am a moron. Of course I mean /dev/sda.
+<Bagder> my /proc says a lot of course, any specifics?
+<Zagor> /proc/scsi/scsi
+<Linus> /proc/scsi/usb-storage or /proc/scsi/scsi
+<Bagder> hm
+<Bagder> $ cat /proc/scsi/scsi
+<Bagder> Segmentation fault
+<Zagor> ooh
+<Linus> Ouch!
+<Bagder> should I take away some of the other usb stuffs when I use ehci?
+<Zagor> i don't think that should be necessary
+<Bagder> this happened before too
+<Bagder> when I used the wrong usb module
+<Bagder> ohci
+<Zagor> although i use usb as modules, so i rarely have everything loaded at the same time
+<Bagder> well, since they must be modules I do too
+<Zagor> they must be?
+<Bagder> dunno for the new one though
+<Bagder> yes
+<Bagder> the other ones must be
+<Bagder> at least for the menu stuff to work
+<Zagor> i didn't know that
+<Zagor> try /proc/bus/usb/devices
+<Bagder> it might work to fiddle in the .config
+<Bagder> and what am I looking for in there?
+<Linus> Bagder: do you have a directory called /proc/scsi/usb-storage-*?
+<Zagor> the isd300
+<Bagder> Vendor=05ab ProdID=0060 ?
+<Zagor> yes
+<Linus> Bagder: are you sure that the usb-storage module is loaded?
+<Bagder> no
+<Linus> Check.
+<Zagor> :)
+<Bagder> so I need two modules?
+<Zagor> the usb driver and usb-storage, yse
+<Zagor> yes
+<Bagder> didn't need that before...
+<Zagor> in that case it was compiled-in
+<Linus> Yes you did.
+<Bagder> oh
+<Bagder> I have that one built-in
+<Zagor> hmm
+<Linus> Sounds strange. You could try to have usb-storage as a module instead
+<Bagder> yeps
+<Bagder> reboot pending
+<Bagder> I did in fact try it under windows yesterday ;-)
+* Bagder hides
+<Linus> *slap* (misses)
+<Zagor> looser
+<Bagder> I also tried to setup "internet sharing" in win98
+<Linus> HAHAHA!
+<Bagder> but failed to miserable I felt pain
+<Bagder> so miserably even
+<Zagor> you really are gullible... :)
+<Bagder> it is *supposed* to work
+<Linus> It does. But you have to know the secret handshake
+<Bagder> it of course ended up with me having *three* cards defined and none of them were having my correct IP addresses
+<Bagder> *g*
+<Bagder> so it took 20 minutes to clean it all up again and get back to where I started ;-)
+<Bagder> ... then I rebooted back to Linux 
+<Bagder> phew
+<Bagder> reboot
+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Apr 16 10:18:30 2002
+
+--> Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+--- Topic for #rockbox is Open Source Jukebox Firmware - http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+--- Topic for #rockbox set by Zagor at Fri Apr 12 15:45:52
+<Linus> Thanks!
+<wavey> i bet the archos guys themselves are impressed at that
+<Bagder> they should be at least
+<wavey> wait until they see our screen savers :)
+<Linus> I suspect that the Archos guys also used the serial port for debugging
+<Zagor> I'm curious if anyone at Archos has heard about our project yet
+<Bagder> right, I added the drawline function the other day
+<Zagor> Bagder: how's the menu ideas coming along?
+<wavey> Zagor: maybe. but they don't seem overly responsive for fixes or ideas from the public - so maybe they just don't give a shit?
+<Bagder> Zagor: not much there yet
+<wavey> my mate has the 1.26 rom, i'd like to know what changes went in
+<wavey> the lists don't seem to indicate much changed
+<Bagder> I'd like to see an API for reading keys
+<Linus> Write one
+<Bagder> then I can fake both input and display in the simulator
+<Bagder> and produce something to try a menu system on
+<Linus> Write one
+<Bagder> I know I should
+<Bagder> again
+<Bagder> I need to take Alan code
+<Bagder> and Gary code
+<Bagder> and unity them
+<Bagder> unite even
+<Linus> Merge on. You have my full support. :-)
+<Bagder> thanks, there's only the time issue left then ;-)
+<Linus> Caffeine does wonders with time
+<Bagder> hahaha
+<Zagor> oh, you're not doing anything useful anyway ;)
+<Linus> "Charging batteries" (internal joke)
+<Bagder> oh, how did you know? ;-)
+<Bagder> speaking of charging batteries, that's a man who we should "lure" in here to get started on some work :-)
+<Bagder> Kjell
+<Linus> That man can really do screensavers!
+<Bagder> hehe right
+<Bagder> we need a math library ;-)
+<Bagder> Alan would love that!
+* Bagder giggles
+
+* Linus is having a Monty Python deja-vu
+<Zagor> i was living in a cardboard box in the middle of the road
+<Zagor> every morning we had to get up and lick the road clean
+<Bagder> luxury!
+<Linus> You were fortunate!
+<Bagder> is there any way we can wait for a key input without just while()ing in a read?
+<Bagder> I mean there's no irq or something?
+<Zagor> i don't think so
+<Zagor> nope
+<Bagder> ok
+<Zagor> PA[12-15] and PB[12-15] can trigger interrupts, but none of them are connected to a key
+<Bagder> Alan's key.h file sure is confusing to me
+<Bagder> well, perhaps not
+<Bagder> but quite not what I want
+<Zagor> uhhh, not a pretty sight
+<Bagder> Gary's is more in my line of thinking
+<wavey> anyone familiar with cygwin's setup process? how do i find out how to get a copy of /usr/share/dict?
+<wavey> bah
+<Zagor> i've never used cygwin
+<wavey> perhaps i'll reboot into linux
+<Bagder> I'll give ya a URL if you want
+<wavey> please
+<Bagder> I mean, the raw file
+<wavey> ah, i can get that myself thanks anyhow
+<Bagder> ok
+<wavey> just wanted to get the proper cygwin version
+<wavey> you know how interdependent these things can be
+<wavey> you guys redhat or debian users/
+<Zagor> both :)
+<wavey> ok
+<wavey> i love debian
+<wavey> to death
+* Bagder has a redhat 6 something, patched beyond recognition
+<Zagor> i'm a long-time redhat user and a recent debian convert
+<wavey> i remember installing slackware using 20+ floppies
+<wavey> those were the days
+<Zagor> hehe
+<wavey> 386 
+<wavey> 16 MB ram
+<wavey> and my system kicked ass :)
+<Zagor> which kernel version was that?
+<wavey> wow
+<wavey> that's going back some
+<wavey> about a year before 2.0
+* Bagder got the 0.01 kernel on a CD with a book he bought recently
+<Zagor> empty cd...
+<Bagder> well, there were other kernel releases too ;-)
+<Zagor> ah
+<Bagder> "Linux core kernel code commentary"
+<Bagder> nice reading before falling asleep at night ;-)
+<Zagor> that's cheating!
+<wavey> the oreilly kernel book is very good
+<Bagder> I got that one too
+<Bagder> device drivers volume 2
+* Zagor has a bloody zoo in the bookshelf
+<wavey> heh yeah
+<wavey> luckily they expense books at my current company
+<wavey> i bought 40 over the last couple years
+<Zagor> yeah, same here
+<wavey> i stroke my bookshelf at night
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Bagder> hahaha
+<wavey> my fiancee is getting jealous
+<wavey> is the device drivers book worth getting?
+* Bagder 's wife fainted when she saw the "kernel commentary" book ;-)
+<wavey> i was tempted
+<Bagder> "what *is* that!" ;-)
+<Linus> The device drivers book is a must
+* wavey makes mental note
+<Bagder> do we have any good pictures of a player and a recorder taken on the keys/lcd ?
+<Bagder> ah http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/internals/archos1.jpg is a good one on the player
+<Bagder> we have no good ones of the recorder though
+<Zagor> i can take some
+<Bagder> I'd like a web page with two frontal pics next to each other
+<Bagder> player/recorder
+<Bagder> makes it more clear to people (and me) how much they differ
+* Bagder thinks ui/input stuff
+<Zagor> ok
+* Linus is starving
+<Zagor> preferrably with the displays lit
+<Zagor> off to lunch
+<Bagder> yes
+<Linus> Lunch!!!
+<Bagder> food
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Apr 16 11:52:45 2002
+
diff --git a/www/irc/rockbox-20020417.log b/www/irc/rockbox-20020417.log
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+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Apr 17 07:59:14 2002
+
+--> Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+--- Topic for #rockbox is Open Source Jukebox Firmware - http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+--- Topic for #rockbox set by Zagor at Fri Apr 12 15:45:52
+--> Zagor2 (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+--- Zagor2 is now known as Zagor
+<Zagor> morning
+<Bagder> hey
+<Zagor> cool hack of the day:
+<Zagor> Adbusters is buying a 30 second commercial spot on CNN tomorrow
+<Zagor> and they're airing....nothing
+<Bagder> :-)
+--> wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> 30 second black screen
+<Bagder> at least it was cheap to manifacture ;-)
+<Zagor> hehe
+<wavey> morn, boys
+<Bagder> hey wavey
+<Zagor> hi wavey
+<Zagor> apparently the spot cost $5000 to purchase
+<wavey> i tried compiling firmware last night, and it complained of missing .h files
+<wavey> fakestore or something
+<Zagor> yeah, that's the fat code. it's not compilable
+<wavey> ah.
+<wavey> ok
+<wavey> is it normal to have noncompilable code in cvs?
+<wavey> in a major build target?
+<Zagor> not really, but this is the first version of most files
+<wavey> hmm
+<wavey> i guess
+<Bagder> it hasn't really set yet
+<wavey> what's there looks good
+<wavey> i got most of it compiled on windows thru cygwin
+<Bagder> that cool
+<Bagder> that's 
+<wavey> needed to mod the makefile to include cygwin's distributed include dirs, etc
+<wavey> once we have a compilable codebase, we should mandate that it's always compilable from then on - sensible?
+<Bagder> yes
+<Bagder> imho
+<wavey> otherwise it holds up dev
+<Bagder> indeed, there will be many people using the code base then
+<Bagder> but feel free to correct the problems and mail us patches! ;-)
+<wavey> sure - will do :)
+--> linus__ (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+--- Bagder gives channel operator status to Zagor
+<wavey> can someone add me as a registered dev on the rockbox sourceforge project pls
+<wavey> mister_wavey is my sf login
+* Bagder points in Zagor's direction
+<Zagor> sure
+<wavey> cheers
+<Bagder> today's security flaw: IE back button ;-)
+<wavey> heh
+<wavey> which webapp is misbehaving?
+<Bagder> the back button can run javascript
+<Zagor> stuart martin, mister_wavey, Developer
+<wavey> zag: lovely
+<Bagder> wavey: to commit anything to CVS, you need to checkout the repo using ssh first
+<Bagder> before you did it read-only
+<linus__> Strange. When I connect from work, I am allowed to use the nick "Linus", but not from home. ???
+<Bagder> linus__: muh is still running and uses it probably
+<Zagor> that's because from work you are connecting via "muh", which is holding the Linus name for you
+<linus__> AAh IC.
+<linus__> Bagder: muh is running on labb, or...?
+<Zagor> yes
+<linus__> Så hur kopplar jag upp mig mot den?
+* Bagder detects swedish BZZZZZ
+* Bagder grins
+<Zagor> connect your irc client to labb:9997
+<linus__> OK. CU!
+<-- linus__ has quit ("Client Exiting")
+--> Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder> tadaaa
+<Linus> WOW! It worked!
+<Bagder> nomad claims 22 hours battery time
+<Bagder> http://www.nomadworld.com/products/Jukebox3/
+<Zagor> ...and the reviews report 10-12 hours
+<Bagder> :-)
+<Linus> I got my soldering station yesterday. I made another debugging cable just to test it.
+<Bagder> ... and now you sell it to the highest bidder? B-]
+<Zagor> ah, good. because i got my archos swapped today!
+<Linus> Rock'n'roll!
+* Bagder reads "Any one out there linking the curl C library with a COBOL program?"
+<Bagder> :-)
+* Bagder bounces, a commit mail from wavey!
+<wavey> heh
+<wavey> cygwin makes hell bearable
+<Bagder> yeah, cygwin's pretty decent
+<wavey> i've installed cygwin's ssh
+<Zagor> lunch
+<wavey> does the use of ssh produce a public key somewhere on my filesystem>
+<wavey> ?
+<wavey> or do i need to make my own
+<Bagder> you don't need one if you don't want to
+<Bagder> but ssh-keygen makes them
+<wavey> i'd like to store the key with sourceforge
+<Bagder> ah, then ssh-keygen is the answer
+<Bagder> -t dsa or -t rsa
+<Bagder> depending on which kind of key you want
+<Bagder> or one at a time to get both kinds
+<Bagder> they're normally store in ~/.ssh
+<Bagder> stored
+<wavey> do i want a passphrase on this?
+<Bagder> yes
+<wavey> ok cool
+<wavey> how long does a cvs login session last for?
+<Bagder> forever
+<wavey> ok cool
+<Bagder> until you logout
+<wavey> ok waiting for the sourceforge batch process to use my key :)
+<Bagder> ok
+<Bagder> yes, it's nicer that way
+<Bagder> the cvs page isn't complete in that aspect either...
+<Bagder> as it doesn't explain the whole process to get the no-prompting to work
+<wavey> well, the ssh-keygen would be a useful addition
+<Bagder> yes
+<Bagder> you'll also need to run ssh-agent and ssh-add
+--> alkorr (jbcoax@srs07v-3-253.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<alkorr> hi
+<alkorr> good it works with WinCVS now (much easier to add or to update than with CVS command line)
+<-- alkorr has quit (Client Quit)
+<wavey> yuk
+<wavey> GUIs are evil
+<wavey> except directory browsers, i guess
+<Bagder> I agree
+<wavey> and therefore cvs integration makes sense
+<Bagder> people tell me the wincvs interface is really crappy though
+<wavey> ssh-agent and ssh-add are needed where?
+<Bagder> when sf knows your key
+<wavey> ok, what do i need to do?
+<Bagder> run "eval `ssh-agent`" and then "ssh-add"
+<Bagder> it starts an "agent" for your key
+<Bagder> and adds your key to it
+<Bagder> which then passes it to the server when used
+<wavey> ah
+<wavey> ok taa
+<Bagder> so for ssh-add you need to enter your pass phrase
+<Bagder> once
+<Bagder> and after that all cvs operations are with no prompts
+<Bagder> now, I honestly don't know how to put that short and nice in the cvs web page ;-)
+<wavey> :)
+<wavey> ooh
+<wavey> still being prompted - c'mon sf! get your batches running! :)
+<Bagder> you'll see on the prompt when you can expect the non-prompt to work
+<Bagder> it depends on which pass phrase it asks for
+<wavey> and the passphrase for the key is good for the length of the login session?
+<Bagder> um, yes, but the "login" session with ssh is just the single operation. unless you meant the passphrase to ssh-add which is good as long as you keep ssh-agent running
+<wavey> ah ok
+<wavey> and to restart the agent after reboot?
+<wavey> eval `ssh-agent` again?
+<Bagder> yes
+<wavey> coolio
+<Bagder> then ssh-add and add your pass phrase
+<Bagder> s/add/enter
+<wavey> ok
+<wavey> how do i get on the cvs notification list?
+<wavey> i couldn't see instructions anywhere
+<wavey> the mail archive needs a search tool too, ideally
+<Bagder> Björn mailed about it
+<Bagder> yes it does
+<Bagder> To get these mails, send a mail to majordomo@cool.haxx.se, with the text (no subject) "subscribe rockbox-cvs".
+<wavey> aha, just found it :) thanks
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Apr 17 12:25:54 2002
+
diff --git a/www/irc/rockbox-20020418.log b/www/irc/rockbox-20020418.log
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+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Apr 18 08:42:39 2002
+
+--> Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+--- Topic for #rockbox is Open Source Jukebox Firmware - http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+--- Topic for #rockbox set by Zagor at Fri Apr 12 15:45:52
+--> Zagor2 (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+--- Zagor2 is now known as Zagor
+--> Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<adiamas> wtf is the story with the makefile?
+<Zagor> there's a story?
+<adiamas> umm.. well.. all the >>>>> and <<<<<< and ======= stuff
+<Zagor> ah, that's a conflict
+<Zagor> you and someone else changed the makefile
+<Zagor> the >>>>>, <<<< and ===== describe the two versions
+<Bagder> which makefile btw?
+<adiamas> uisimulator
+<adiamas> nevermind.. i just did and update on my end...
+<Bagder> ok
+adiamas adi|atWork <adiamas> could someone tell me where their lcd.h is located?
+<adiamas> i don't have one and i need to grab it off a remote box...
+<adiamas> makefile is complaining
+<Bagder> ah
+<Zagor> it's in the firmware module
+<Bagder> I have uisimulator and firmware checked out in the same dir
+<adiamas> ?
+<Bagder> so in the uisim dir I can get it ../firmware/lcd.[ch]
+<adiamas> im really starting to dislike cvs
+<Zagor> rockbox, rockbox/uisimulator, rockbox/firmware
+<adiamas> yeah.. but _i_ don't wanna work on firmware
+<Bagder> you do now ;-)
+<adiamas> but your telling me that i need to pull it down and keep it up to date huh ?
+<Zagor> no but you need that source. we don't want to duplicate it
+<Bagder> because the uisim uses firmware code
+* adiamas giggles
+<adiamas> can't we break it out into another "library" or "common" dir or something?
+<Zagor> and have a third module you need?
+<adiamas> seems that makes more sense..
+<adiamas> nope.. still only be two..
+<adiamas> why should i worry about firmware if i only want to play with the uisim
+<Bagder> thing is, I want the uisim to use as much "real" code as possible
+<adiamas> nods
+<Zagor> because the uisim simulates the firmware
+<adiamas> nods
+<adiamas> okay.. now.. because im stupid.. if i just want to pull the files down and not checkout...
+<adiamas> whats the cvs command?
+<adiamas> or do i co no matter what?
+<Zagor> yes
+<Bagder> there's only checkout, yes
+<adiamas> nod
+<adiamas> im so much more used to sccs :)
+<Bagder> but since you don't modify them, you won't get problems updating them in the future
+<Zagor> sccs is good, but not for widely distributed development
+* adiamas nods
+<adiamas> i understand the use of cvs.. just feels icky cause im not used to it
+<Zagor> widely/wildly
+<Bagder> it takes some getting-used-to, I agree
+--> wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<Bagder> hey ho wavey
+--- Zagor is now known as Zagor|work
+<wavey> goodly morning
+<adiamas> hmm... okay.. anyone know wtf firmware/system.h would bitch on uisim compile?
+<adiamas> complaing about the #define \'s
+<Bagder> hm
+<Bagder> lemme check
+<Bagder> what does it say?
+<Bagder> it works here
+<adiamas> gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -DGETTIMEOFDAY_TWO_ARGS -DSIMULATOR -DHAVE_LCD_BITMAP -I../firmware  -g -c uibasic.c
+<adiamas> In file included from ../firmware/lcd.h:24,
+<adiamas>                  from lcd-x11.h:24,
+<adiamas>                  from uibasic.c:36:
+<adiamas> ../firmware/system.h:52: parse error before `volatile'
+<adiamas> ../firmware/system.h:62: stray '\' in program
+<adiamas> and then like 100 iother stray complaints.. but i figure those are ghosts
+<Bagder> what gcc version is this?
+* Bagder suspects the crlf newlines...
+<adiamas> gcc version 2.95.3 20010315 (release)
+<adiamas> im not switching to the 3.0 series till its aged a bit
+<Bagder> on linux, right?
+<adiamas> yup
+<adiamas> ill tell you if its crlf
+<adiamas> one sec
+<adiamas> looks like it...
+<adiamas> i load it  in emacs and it comes in DOS format
+<adiamas> mode rather
+<Bagder> yes
+<Bagder> so try stripping them off and compile and see if that removes the warnings
+<adiamas> ummm.. how do i do that easily?
+<Bagder> tr -d '\015' < system.h >system2.h
+<Bagder> then use the version 2 of course
+<adiamas> yup.. that did it...
+<Bagder> ok
+<Bagder> so we need to be more careful on the newlines
+<adiamas> so when i get diffs on what i do and others do.. clashes and what not.. and we get the <<<<<<<<<< and> >>>>>>> complaints.. how do we resolve those?
+<wavey> the makefile can include a newline checker
+adiamas adi|atWork adiamas adi|atWork <adiamas> thats a good idea
+<Bagder> adiamas: those are conflict markes that appear when you get an update that has changes on the same lines you have changed locally
+<adiamas> right.. i know.. but how do we resolve them...
+<adiamas> ie: you change int i to int duck
+<adiamas> and i want int wolf
+<adiamas> what happens?
+<Bagder> you edit out the "wrong" piece
+<Bagder> and keep the correct
+<adiamas> hehe but which is wrong?
+<Bagder> you need to figure that out
+<Bagder> it's a conflict with your changes
+<Bagder> we can't tell you what's right ;-)
+<adiamas> but it may only be a conflict with my changes because someone elses bug fix may be diff then mine.. and it clear out theres and place mine.. then theirs is in conflict
+<adiamas> and round the wheel turns...
+<Bagder> yes, but that's why you need to pick one of the alternatives. Or write a new approach ;-)
+* adiamas reminds you he's still new to this ;)
+<adiamas> one last question, then bed... is there a way to set my searchable include dirs in my env so that the makefile can find what it needs if things are in diff locations?
+<Bagder> it's possible to pass as arguments to make
+<adiamas> bah.. was trying to avoid that...
+<Bagder> it could be environment variables too
+<Bagder> we should figure out a way to let people do this easily
+* adiamas nods
+<adiamas> fixed.. settled for a symlink and said screw it
+<Bagder> way to go ;-)
+<wavey> adiamas: -IX -IX+1 -IX+2 for your makefile include entry will search X, X+1 and X+2 ..
+<wavey> where X, X+1 and X+2 are include dirs
+<wavey> if i understand your q correctly
+<wavey> so people edit their makefile to include all their includes in the $(INCLUDE) directive
+<wavey> that's how I do it
+<wavey> especially on cygwin, where the includes are all over the place
+<wavey> oh, and I replace the use of -I$(INCLUDES) with simply $(INCLUDES)
+<wavey> to ensure the first -I doesn't translate into -I-IX
+* wavey goes back to OO modelling
+<wavey> of course, we could always use autoconf
+* wavey runs
+<Bagder> hehe
+<adiamas> wavey nah.. that i know.. the part that was issue was the libs..
+<adiamas> yeah.. editing the makefile isn't an issue..
+<adiamas> i just don't want to have to keep fixing it each time i pulled down a clean copy and all
+<adiamas> so i just tossed LIBDIRS in the env
+<adiamas> and do make -e
+* adiamas shrugs
+<wavey> oh, libs - i thought you said includes
+<adiamas> hehe nope...
+<adiamas> im used to makefiles.. just not used to dealing with that on a new starting project :)
+<adiamas> w/ other ppls machines and all
+<wavey> 'is there a way to set my searchable include dirs in my env'
+<wavey> ha
+* wavey knew he wasn't going mad
+<adiamas> hehe sorry...
+<wavey> i think i need bed too
+<Bagder> 1 - 0 to wavey ;-)
+<wavey> but i've been awake only a couple hours
+<adiamas> its 0430 here.. cut me some slack ;)
+<wavey> heh
+<wavey> go
+<wavey> to
+<wavey> bed :)
+<adiamas> can't sleep :(
+<adiamas> this heatwave here is killing me..
+<adiamas> came to quick...
+<wavey> where are you?
+<adiamas> NY state, usa
+<adiamas> bout, 30 mins north of NYC
+<wavey> aha
+<wavey> how hot can it be at 0430?
+<adiamas> hit 93 today at work...
+<wavey> ouch
+<adiamas> yeah...
+<wavey> hope the ac is working
+<adiamas> don't have any
+<adiamas> just a ceiling fan
+<wavey> double ouch
+<adiamas> nods
+<adiamas> i find turning lights off and working by candle makes it cooler (both definitons of cooler)
+* wavey blinks
+<adiamas> besides.. the gf comes up this weekend.. so sweat is a good thing then ;)
+<wavey> heh
+<adiamas> btw.. its no ac at home.. work has it..
+<wavey> ah
+<wavey> glad to hear it 
+* Bagder counts, 33.9 celsius = 93 fahrenheit = 307 kelvin
+<wavey> uk has been mild/warm for a few weeks now
+<wavey> s'lovely
+<wavey> had the first rain in ages yesterday
+<Bagder> we have like 9C today... :-/
+<adiamas> hehe we are in a near drought situation already... no lawn watering, town just passed restrictions on pool filling
+<Bagder> wow
+<adiamas> and across america over 100 records were broken due to the high heat
+<wavey> we use CDs in the uk now
+<adiamas> NYC had it's hotest temp on this day in history, for the 3rd day in a row.
+<wavey> they're smaller and shinyier
+* adiamas quirks his head to the side and looks at wavey
+<adiamas> i don't get it.
+<wavey> records broken
+<wavey> cd
+<adiamas> ah.. 
+<adiamas> heheh
+<wavey> it's late
+<wavey>  you're tired
+<adiamas> im ugly too :)
+<wavey> its understandable :)
+<wavey> heheh
+<adiamas> but shhh.. thats a secret
+* Bagder looks at wavey, oooooh that was a pretty bad one ;-)
+<wavey> everyone's beautiful in ascii
+<adiamas> lol... i like that...
+<adiamas> congrats.. you just joined my sig file :)
+<wavey> eheh
+<wavey> heh
+<wavey> in ebcdic however, everyone's a pig
+<Bagder> is that why we've switched to ascii these days then? B-]
+<wavey> yup :)
+<wavey> and frosted mirrors too
+<adiamas> wavey.. whats your real name so i can credit you all proper like :)
+<wavey> stuart martin, if you need the credit. take it for yourself with my pleasure
+<adiamas> btw.. its 70 F here, 21 c
+<adiamas> UV Index:
+<adiamas>                   0 Minimal
+<adiamas> heheh
+<adiamas> i wonder why...
+<adiamas> could it be the suns not up?
+<wavey> :)
+<wavey> when is dawn these days?
+<wavey> any of you read scifi?
+<adiamas> dawn as in sun rise or dawn as in the book?
+<Bagder> sunrise in NY 05:12
+<wavey> almost finished two olaf stapledon books. 1930s author - one of his books describes the history of humanity (over 200 000 000 years) and the other describes the history of the universes 
+<wavey> both fantastic, btw
+<adiamas> nods
+<Bagder> (according to my psion)
+<wavey> absolutely recommend them
+<adiamas> wavey, feel like mailing me the book names?
+<adiamas> either that.. or msg me them...
+<wavey> 'last and first men'
+<wavey> and 'starmaker'
+<adiamas> nods
+<wavey> the channel is quiet, i'm sure no one cares :)
+<adiamas> got it.
+<adiamas> okay.. bed time
+<adiamas> night all
+<Bagder> night adiamas
+<wavey> see ya
+--- adiamas is now known as adi|sleep
+* Bagder is curious on Linus I2C and MAS work...
+<wavey> i2c?
+<wavey> whassat
+<wavey> ooh, only 15*6 songs left on my random playlist of 3500 songs :)
+<Bagder> that's how to speak to the MAS circuit
+<adi|sleep> one quick note.. did you guys realize there is a key lock on the jbr?
+<wavey> yus
+<wavey> on
+<adi|sleep> nods
+<adi|sleep> hehe i din't  :)
+<adi|sleep> back to bed :)
+<wavey> heh
+<wavey> night
+* Bagder has hardly used his recorder yet :-)
+<wavey> we need a tiny math lib for our code
+<Bagder> we do
+<wavey> which projects can we steal it from?
+<Bagder> I dunno actually
+<Bagder> we could probably "steal" function by function
+<Bagder> from BSD or Linux code
+<wavey> sure
+<wavey> be nice if sourceforge allowed a search through open source project's codebases for things
+<wavey> be very useful
+<Bagder> true
+<wavey> make it easier for industry to rip it off as well i guess
+<wavey> not that it doesn't happen already anyway
+<Linus> The I2C is going slow at the moment. But the MAS is responding.
+<Bagder> *cool*
+<Linus> ...occasionally. :-)
+<Bagder> hah
+<Bagder> occasionally cool :-)
+<wavey> heh
+<wavey> what about data structures?
+<wavey> we cutting our own linked lists, etc?
+<Bagder> we could probably use a sensible single implementation for many to use
+<wavey> must be a nice and small and tested-to-hell one in apache or somewhere
+<wavey> yus
+--- Zagor|work is now known as Zagor
+<Bagder> btw, we're having a litte "rockbox" gathering tomorrow
+<Bagder> the stockholm/sweden parts of the rockboxers
+<wavey> how close do you guys live together?
+<Linus> 20km
+<wavey> 'variable pitch control' is that achieveable by the MAS?
+<wavey> (from the mail list)
+<Zagor> nope
+<Zagor> can't be done
+<Bagder> rockbox lunch time
+<PsycoXul> hey you know if the DAC can have 2 channels on at once?
+<Linus> I don't think so. Lemme check.
+<Linus> It seems like we can mix all channels, AUX1 AUX2 and DAC
+<Linus> Cool. Then we can hear the RS232 data when we are debugging. :-)
+--- Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
+<PsycoXul> yeah? nice
+--- Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor
+--- wavey is now known as wav_lunch
+* wav_lunch smiles
+<wav_lunch> timezones. who'd have 'em?
+<Zagor> they're useless
+* Zagor wants to do away with timezones and daylight savings time
+<wav_lunch> yus
+<wav_lunch> one hour, globally
+<wav_lunch> who cares if 0515 is in your afternoon?
+<Zagor> exactly. it's just a bloody number
+* PsycoXul agrees
+<wav_lunch> swatch tried it with Internet Time
+<wav_lunch> only met one person with such a watch though
+<wav_lunch> if the world's consumers had embraced the concept, the governments may have agreed to it
+<wav_lunch> anyhow
+<wav_lunch> lunch
+<Zagor> the problem was that they wanted to alter everyone's sense of time. the changed too much
+<Zagor> people still want 12+12 hour days, 60 hours minutes etc
+--> alkorr (jbcoax@srs04m-2-107.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> Welcome Alan!
+<alkorr> hi linus
+<Zagor> hi there
+<alkorr> i have a question
+<Linus> Ask!
+<alkorr> quite now we cannot use other formats than MP3
+<alkorr> not even a WAV file
+<alkorr> the recorder is able to get a linear PCM on digital line
+<Linus> True
+<alkorr> if i'm not wrong, wav format is a PCM-like stream
+<Zagor> yes
+<PsycoXul> wav is usualy just pcm with a header afaik
+<alkorr> my idea is the following
+<alkorr> if we strip unused infos
+<alkorr> and feed internally the digital pin of MAS
+<alkorr> with a PCM stream (using sci0 ?)
+<alkorr> and set MAS for recording
+<alkorr> would you hear this wav playing ?
+<Linus> I don't follow you. Do you want to play WAV files on the recorder?
+<alkorr> a trick which could allow recorder to play wav files (not forgetting possibility of mixing)
+<PsycoXul> i read on the company's website about the player's MAS and they claimed to have pcm playback firmware for that chip anyways, likely the recorder's chip too... of course getting any such things i dunno, never found any downloads etc
+<Linus> The MAS is capable of playing WAV files. You just have to download firmware to it.
+<alkorr> i think it is not free
+<PsycoXul> can archos firmware do whats necessary to download firmware to the MAS?
+<alkorr> i tried to get this addition but without success
+<alkorr> yes it could
+<alkorr> if it have additions to upload
+<alkorr> has
+<alkorr> but i'm doubtful that Archos will buy this addition for its player/recorder.
+<Zagor> i think we need a dsp hacker to the project :)
+<alkorr> of course if we could know what kind of DSP it is and have compilers, it would be great
+<Zagor> yes
+<alkorr> but Micronas are unlikely to reveal anything about this DSP
+<Bagder> why?
+<alkorr> Do you know a lot of company which reveal all the works ? 
+<alkorr> their
+<Bagder> what DSP they use is hardly "all the works"
+<alkorr> anyway, companies are not bound for revealing something :)
+<alkorr> perhaps they don't want to let a non Micronas employee to be able to reverse-engineer their works
+<alkorr> they are commercial, not open free :)
+<PsycoXul> well
+<PsycoXul> they DO have a devkit that they supply to their customers
+<PsycoXul> they mention it and some of the things in it
+<PsycoXul> example firmware and such
+<Zagor> yes but if they don't let people write dsp code, who will buy their dsp?
+<alkorr> customers => archos, not final users
+<alkorr> customers must pay for it !
+<Zagor> true
+<PsycoXul> including some voice compression codec decoder and encoder, and pcm player
+<PsycoXul> yeah
+<Bagder> but there are a few customers of the MAS
+<Bagder> perhaps we could ask around
+<PsycoXul> so somebody find a friend of a friend of a friend who works for a customer ...
+<PsycoXul> heh
+<alkorr> okay if you can a smart guy to help for retrieving missing infos and even get tools, that would be great
+<alkorr> find
+<Bagder> getting the tools is probably not legal
+<alkorr> and if he/she is not concerned with a NDA too
+<Bagder> I doubt all customers sign NDAs to buy the MAS devkit
+<alkorr> ya, if we could have opcodes, we can create an assembler
+<alkorr> but what i know it should be 24-bit opcodes (code addresses are 24-bit)
+<alkorr> btw, if you look at MAS commands, to upload a firmware you must issue a command and a block of 32-bit words
+<alkorr> but only the first 24 bits in those words are valid
+<alkorr> (or it should be 12-bit ?)
+<alkorr> hum found a 1 MB pdf...
+<Zagor> the data sheets speaks of 20-bit words
+<alkorr> ok
+<alkorr> so it is 20-bit
+<alkorr> i found a page where someone said what DSP was in fact
+<Bagder> wow
+<alkorr> i try to get it back
+<alkorr> MASC
+<alkorr> 3500 ?
+<Bagder> not 35000 ?
+<alkorr> anyway not a target we can find for gcc or as :(
+<Bagder> uh no
+<Bagder> http://winwww.rutgers.edu/~samar/platforms/masc3500.html
+<alkorr> ya
+<alkorr> found
+<Zagor> nice digging!
+<Bagder> the guy who wrote that web page could have some info
+<alkorr> yes i tried but i wonder if his email address is still valid
+<Bagder> he has two, try both ;-)
+<alkorr> hum i prefer let you to try both ;)
+<alkorr> "MASC 3500 is NOT supported by C compiler. Only assembler programming is available"
+<Bagder> actually, I think I'll hand over that work to Björn
+<alkorr> okay
+<Zagor> *thump*
+<Zagor> got it
+<Zagor> :)
+<Bagder> he's the man
+<Bagder> ;-)
+<alkorr> :)
+<Zagor> so..um... what do we want to know, exactly?
+<wav_lunch> whether he has an archos for a start :)
+--- wav_lunch is now known as wavey
+<alkorr> have all the information he can feed us about this DSP : especially all the opcodes
+<Bagder> haha
+<Zagor> haha
+<Zagor> "I was especially interested in digital modulation techniques and speech processing. So, embedded systems and numerous real-time DSP implementations (telephone line modems, low bit-rate speech coding...)"
+<Zagor> he's our man!
+<wavey> There was only one commercially available MPEG layer 3 chip, the MASC3500 from ITT Intermetall Semiconductor. We attempted to obtain information and availability of the chip, but the company is situated in Germany and gave very little feedback
+<wavey> not a good sign
+<alkorr> yes it is the main culpritt of thy company
+<alkorr> this
+<alkorr> humm i mean the main discredit for this company :)
+<wavey> your point is usually clear, al :)
+<wavey> A. Domazetovic, D. Samardzija,  "Implementation of 4880 bps CELP on MASC 3500 DSP", Conference on Telecommunications ETRAN, Vrnjacka Banja, Yugoslavia, Jun 1998. 
+<wavey> anyone near a library?
+<wavey> in yugoslavia?
+* wavey chuckles
+<Zagor> lol
+<wavey> D. Samardzija, Z. Lukac, "A Solution of CELP Encoder at 5.3kbit/s and 6.3kbit/s on ITT MASC 3500 Processor", Conference on Telecommunications ETRAN, Vrnjacka Banja, Yugoslavia, Jun 1998. 
+<alkorr> well in a very good english : "this lack of feedback is the rock(box) on which the undertaking comes to grief" ;)
+<Zagor> yay, we've got a poet! ;)
+<wavey> al: and now in italian, please :)
+<alkorr> italian you are ?
+<wavey> (without using babelfish)
+<wavey> italian I am not
+<wavey> english I am
+<alkorr> arf ;)
+<wavey> arf is a lovely word :)
+<alkorr> "questa mancanza di risposte è la roccia(boccia) su cui l'impresa viene al dolore " ;)
+<wavey> roccia boccia
+* Bagder giggles
+<alkorr> arf => lol
+<wavey> fantastic! :)
+<Bagder> roccia boccia is mighty
+<alkorr> huh "boccia" doesn't exist :P
+<alkorr> Wav: found something about "A Solution of CELP Encoder at 5.3kbit/s and 6.3kbit/s on ITT MASC 3500 Processor" ?
+<Zagor> it's one of Dragan's publications
+<alkorr> okay so no pdf at all ?
+<Zagor> no
+<Zagor> i'll email him and see if he's a cool guy or not
+<Zagor> hmm, this guy wrote a CELP encoder for the MAS 3503, which is the predecessor of the 3507 we have in the jukebox
+<Zagor> i think i'm in love
+<alkorr> arf :)
+* Bagder worships Dragan a little
+<Bagder> you think it helps? ;-)
+<alkorr> Why ?
+<alkorr> brb
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Apr 18 14:44:53 2002
+
+**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Apr 18 15:27:51 2002
+
+--> Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+--- Topic for #rockbox is Open Source Jukebox Firmware - http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
+--- Topic for #rockbox set by Zagor at Fri Apr 12 15:45:52
+<Bagder> does wordexp() exist in windows?
+<Bagder> anyone?
+* Zagor doesn't do windows
+<alkorr> wordexp ?
+<Zagor> Bagder: <Linus> I just managed to read the version number from the MAS via I2C! Yippie!
+<Bagder> *neat*
+<Bagder> wordexp, yes, it's a posix function
+<Bagder> though I doubt windows features it
+<alkorr> use the cygwin.dll from Cygwin ;P
+<alkorr> i'm doubtful too
+<alkorr> unless they have a posix library
+<alkorr> what is its purpose
+<Bagder> "perform word expansions"
+<alkorr> i cannot find its manual entry
+<Bagder> heh, no I couldn't either on linux
+<alkorr> really a standard posix or just a mandatory extension ?
+<Bagder> then Linux man pages contain many holes
+<Bagder> standard posix
+<Bagder> single unix specification
+<Bagder> never mind
+<alkorr> okay
+<Bagder> so what is the version number of the MAS? ;-)
+<alkorr> Linus: player or recorder ?
+<Zagor> it's the player
+<Zagor> actually, he read the model number so it's "3507"
+<Bagder> woooo
+<Bagder> we didn't know that! B-P
+<Zagor> hehe
+<alkorr> Linus: you should try I²Cize your MAS on the recorder too
+<Zagor> maybe he faked it :)
+<Zagor> alan: yeah, it's just a lot easier to do development on the player since he's got the serial port on it (and the I2C wires connected to a digital oscilloscope...)
+<alkorr> ah yes, the wires...
+<PsycoXul> you guys are gonna make these little boxes do things the archos people never dreamed :p
+<PsycoXul> just thought i'd throw that in there before running off to bed heh
+<Bagder> ... and not some things people do dream of (judging from some of the feature requests) ;-)
+<PsycoXul> heh
+<PsycoXul> yeah well 
+<Linus> My I2C test was on the player
+<alkorr> Recorder has two I²C devices so don't be surprise if you code could not work ;) 
+<PsycoXul> Bagder: that may not be all bad heh
+<PsycoXul> and theres a lot of requested features that would be like.. moot with new better firmware
+<PsycoXul> you know things that apply to the current firmware's limitations etc
+<Bagder> that's true
+<Linus> Why? I assume they have different ID:s.
+<alkorr> especially, if you requeste a RTC reading via an interrupt while reading something on MAS ;)
+<Linus> Hehe. Who would do such a thing? :-)
+<alkorr> They do
+<Linus> :-)
+<PsycoXul> anyways, sleep time.. night
+<Bagder> night PsycoXul
+<Linus> night
+<alkorr> nacht Psycho
+<alkorr> hum i must leave, see you !
+<-- alkorr has quit ()
+<-- Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<-- Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+--- You are now known as Bagderzzz
+--> wavey_ (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<-- wavey has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<-- wavey_ (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has left #rockbox
+--> Zagor (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+--> alkorr (jbcoax@srs04m-7-48.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<-- alkorr has quit (Client Quit)
+--> wavey (~wavey@host-54.valtech.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> are you an emacs man, wavey?
+<wavey> yus
+<wavey> you also?
+<Zagor> yep
+<Zagor> had a problem with c-offsets-alist, but I worked it out
+<Zagor> are you logging everything?
+<Zagor> alan said his FAT32 code was "obsolete" but I don't understand what he meant with that
+<-- wavey has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<adi|atWork> zagor.. you still around?
+<Zagor> yeah
+<adi|atWork> heheh glad you updated the lcd.[ch] api...
+<adi|atWork> now i can toss up my battery bit at some point ;)
+<Zagor> ah, yes
+<Zagor> i have a little something i hope to get done tonight
+<adi|atWork> whats that?
+<Zagor> umm, a surprise :)
+<Zagor> tetris
+<adi|atWork> lol.. seriously?
+<Zagor> yeah
+<adi|atWork> oh.. i was thinking...
+<adi|atWork> we have a limited # of keys on the players.. we may want to assign keyboard keys to represent them for the simulator.
+<Zagor> yes, i've been thinking that too. i was thinking some keys on the numeric keyboard
+<adi|atWork> nods
+<adi|atWork> that or just overload the function keys.
+<adi|atWork> but the #pad would work nicely for the center control pad...
+<adi|atWork> left, right, up, down.
+<Zagor> exactly
+<adi|atWork> i like that.
+<Zagor> and 5 för the play/pause on the recorder
+<adi|atWork> yup...
+<Zagor> and even the top four for the menu keys
+<adi|atWork> could even get away with - for off and + for on
+<adi|atWork> right...
+<Zagor> i don't know if numlock is a problem using as a normal key in X
+<adi|atWork> i don't see why it would be...
+<adi|atWork> brb..need food
+<-- Zagor has quit ("bye")
diff --git a/www/irc/rockbox-20020419.log b/www/irc/rockbox-20020419.log
new file mode 100644
index 0000000000..d31e3942af
--- /dev/null
+++ b/www/irc/rockbox-20020419.log
@@ -0,0 +1,547 @@
+--- You are now known as Bagder
+--> Zagor2 (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+--- Zagor2 is now known as Zagor
+<Zagor> aloha!
+<Bagder> hey ho
+--- Bagder gives channel operator status to Zagor
+<Bagder> uh
+<Bagder> y%8 should be y&7 in lcd.c
+<Bagder> for the pixel functionss
+<Bagder> I'll fix
+<Zagor> yes, i realized that too. but it turns out as the same thing
+<Bagder> when compiled?
+<Zagor> i don't know about the code, but the logic is the same
+<Bagder> yes, logic is the same but % is generally a much slower operation
+<Zagor> ok
+* Bagder does an "Alan"
+<Zagor> hehe, don't be mean
+* Bagder chuckles
+<Bagder> woo new mozilla to get
+--> wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
+<wavey> morn
+<Bagder> it is a sunny and fine morning here
+<wavey> overcast and cool here
+--> alkorr (jbcoax@srs04m-8-117.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<alkorr> for the CVS $Id, what must i put it in a source, so CVS fills it
+<alkorr> ?
+<alkorr> hi btw
+<Zagor> $Id$
+<Zagor> hi :)
+<alkorr> oky
+<alkorr> :)
+<wavey> do we have a standard file header to include at the top?
+<Bagder> yes
+<wavey> i.e the rockbox copyright and logo?
+<alkorr> yeep
+<wavey> so rather than specifying the Id tag
+<wavey> specify the header :)
+<wavey> and put the tag in the herder
+<wavey> header
+<Zagor> yes, that's how it is
+<wavey> so
+<wavey> why
+<wavey> did
+<wavey> alan
+<wavey> ask about the id tag?
+<Zagor> ask
+<Zagor> alan
+<Zagor> :)
+* wavey lol
+<alkorr> because i didn't know that :)
+<wavey> because it isn't stated anywhere :)
+<Zagor> alan: you changed the license for your FAT code. was that intentional?
+<alkorr> nope at all
+<alkorr> they were my old headers
+<Zagor> ok, so I should change it back to GPL?
+<alkorr> just forget to change them
+<alkorr> if you are tempted :)
+<Zagor> i am :)
+<alkorr> okay
+<Zagor> i looked at it a bit yesterday. what did you mean when you said the code is "obsolete"?
+<alkorr> which code ?
+<Zagor> the fat code
+<Zagor> that you mailed me
+<alkorr> ah yes... hum because i plan to split it and maybe a little bit more generic for PC test
+<Zagor> ok, because I started working on it... :)
+<alkorr> is that so ?
+<Zagor> yes
+<Zagor> i plan to have an image of a FAT32 disk in a file to do testing on
+<alkorr> for your purpose ?
+<Zagor> ?
+<wavey> zag: how will the main program body service user events while keeping the dsp full of data? will we just set up some sort of dma to allow the dsp to read data until complete, leaving the program thread to manipulate memory etc?
+<wavey> or is there some other way?
+<Zagor> that's a good question, which among other things we will be discussing tonight :)
+<Zagor> i need to switch tunnels, brb
+<-- Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<wavey> bag: we = .se?
+<alkorr> european people ;)
+<Bagder> yes
+<Bagder> me, Linus, Björn and a forth friend
+--> Zagor2 (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<wavey> ok
+--- Zagor2 is now known as Zagor
+<wavey> cool
+<alkorr> oh you mean off-irc, Bagder ?
+<Bagder> we're gonna gather tonight 
+<Bagder> right
+<Bagder> in real life
+<wavey> wow
+<wavey> there's an outside?
+* wavey is scared
+* Zagor is now in a clean, nice, pure ssl tunnel
+<Bagder> you worked out the CONNECT part?
+<Zagor> yup. found a perl script
+<Bagder> coolio
+<Zagor> i'll write up a twiki page
+<Bagder> knowing http pays off B-P
+<alkorr> seriously i see Zagor has change PAIOR and PBIOR to be ((volatile ...)
+<alkorr> i would try to avoid such a thing
+<Zagor> why?
+<alkorr> sometimes to have a byte access is better than a word access
+<wavey> these are registers, yes?
+<Zagor> yes but byte access is a special case
+<alkorr> or a 32-bit access better than a 16-bit access
+<Zagor> also a special case
+<Zagor> this is the normal case
+--> Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<alkorr> du to the fact, we write them in C, i don't see objections to leave them as address ant programmer to use the word access he wants
+<alkorr> ... and let ...
+<Zagor> it makes a mess in the code to always typecast them. this way, the registers are registers, as defined in the data sheet
+<alkorr> register ???
+<Zagor> if you want to access them in a non-standard way, *then* you do special typecasts
+<alkorr> manual says we can access such registers as well byte as word, so there is no real non-standard way
+<Zagor> well the manual says the register is 16 bits wide, so that's how I define "standard"
+<Linus> I define the "standard size" to be the register size.
+<Linus> I would guess the the size the programmer wants would be the register size in 99% of all cases.
+<alkorr> i try to use a homogene way to access those register, and having SI,HI or QI remove the necessity to guess what size the register is. But due to the fact i'm in minority, i suppose i can only approve your changes unwillingly 
+<Zagor> i really don't like the SI/HI/QI thing
+<alkorr> by the way i could need the addresses of  those register (DMA with SCI0 for example)
+<Linus> Except that noone can guess what QI, SI and HI means without searching in the header files.
+<Zagor> yes, we probably need double macros. one with the address and one for register access
+<alkorr> yes but i find more ugly explicit typecasting anyway
+<Linus> Absolutely. We will probably still nedd both ways of doing it.
+<Zagor> explicit typecasting is good in special cases
+<Zagor> because then it shows that it's a special case
+<alkorr> i use GCC convention which has in internal the modes SI, HI and QI
+<alkorr> if you could find something else, i could be okay
+* Zagor has never seen SI/HI/QI in his 15 years of programming...
+<Linus> Yes. But I have yet to see any C source code using that convention.
+<alkorr> but must be short anyway
+<Linus> Absolutely.
+<alkorr> look at the gcc source
+--> Bagder2 (~chatzilla@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> I have looked at the GCC source code. The QI/HI/SI stuff is not C it is a pseudo language.
+* Bagder2 tries chatzilla
+<Zagor> Bagder2: good?
+<Bagder2> nah, I think I prefer X-chat
+<alkorr> yes, your defines is not much more standard than mine anyway
+<Zagor> actually, they are
+<-- Bagder2 has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+<Zagor> look at any microcontroller C compiler
+<Zagor> registers are reserved uppercase symbols
+<alkorr> i don't call them 'standard'
+<Zagor> well no, but it's the most common way to represent registers
+<alkorr> it is not that kind of stuff i will call standard
+<alkorr> for me, they are libs like stdlib or stdio, no our own source
+<Zagor> I agree, it's not a standard. but it's a style that many people have seen before
+<adi|sleep> yeah.. yeah.. well.. well.. your momma!
+* Zagor twitches. Adi - awake?
+<adi|sleep> not really... 
+<adi|sleep> for what its worth.. and i know its not much... but to me... SI HI QI makes no sense...
+<Linus> BTW, the Archos guys have really made an odd I2C bus connection between the 7034 and the MAS... :-(
+<adi|sleep> because to anyone who doesn't immediatly recognize it.. well.. they are clueless to what it means..
+<adi|sleep> but thats just my opin...
+<alkorr> so change them for another convention
+<Zagor> that's my point exactly
+<Linus> and the MAS uses a really odd I2C protocol variant...
+<Bagder> Linus: will it set any limitations or just make it difficult?
+* adi|sleep also points out he isn't attacking anyone...
+<Linus> A little tricky...and perhaps slower that necessary.
+<alkorr> anyway, for me they are not really register since SH7034 use a memory map to access peripheral registers => not a register for SH, register for peripheral on-chip.
+* Linus agrees with adi|sleep
+<alkorr> Linus: what about the trouble ?
+<Zagor> alan: it's the same thing. many controllers use memory-mapped registers
+<Linus> For example the PIC
+<Zagor> and the PowerPC
+<Linus> Well, not the POowerPC core, but all PowerPC-microcontrollers
+<Zagor> yes
+* adi|sleep points out that your reality is nothing but lies and baldardash and he is happy to say he has know understand of it.
+<Linus> And the 8051, IIRC
+* adi|sleep goes back to sleep
+<Zagor> adi seems a bit... off ?
+<Linus> Zombie?
+<adi|sleep> me? no no no....
+<Bagder> so, he's talking in his sleep ;-)
+<adi|sleep> im on 'nuetrel'
+<Zagor> a victim of the Umbrella Corporation?
+<alkorr> i make a difference between cpu register and port registers that all. The way to access them is different
+<adi|sleep> which is latin for "its way to fucking hot and humid outside for 0430
+<adi|sleep> "
+<alkorr> one use direct opcode, the other use peek/poke
+<alkorr> that's all
+<Linus> Agreed. You dont access the CPU registers at all in C source code.
+<Bagder> poke 53280, 0
+<Linus> Black border
+<alkorr> a reset ?
+<alkorr> Linus: about I²C ?
+<adi|sleep> then what did the old "register" thing in C do?
+* Bagder hands the award to Linus
+<alkorr> what's the trouble
+adi|atWork adi|sleep adi|atWork adi|sleep <Zagor> adi|sleep: it tries to allocate a variable to a register
+<adi|sleep> nods
+<Zagor> instead of putting it on the stack
+<adi|sleep> okay.. now i remember.
+<alkorr> no one uses anymore register, because a lot of C compiler implicily uses registers as possible
+<Linus> They have used a diode to simulate an open collector bus. That makes it tricky to communicate in both directions.
+* Zagor agrees
+<alkorr> so register is a void attribute in gcc
+<Zagor> yup
+<Bagder> yes
+<Bagder> but then gcc is a mighty fine compiler
+<Bagder> there are a bazillioin of worse ones out there
+* Bagder has been hit by a few
+<Linus> GCC is good on some processors, worse on others.
+<Bagder> true
+<Bagder> but it has a good general engine
+<Linus> Generally, GCC wants CPU's with a lot of registers
+<adi|sleep> well don't we all?
+<alkorr> for IA32 or SH, humm
+<adi|sleep> i mean.. come on.. cpus with lotsa registers are just so much more sexy
+<adi|sleep> not to mention better in bed.
+<adi|sleep> speaking of bed
+<alkorr> IA64 you mean
+<Linus> ADI. Are you drunk? :-)
+<adi|sleep> only with powerlessness
+* adi|sleep cackles evilly
+<Bagder> I bet its the heat
+<alkorr> Linus: i'm not sure to understand, what do you mean by "communicate in both directions" ?
+<adi|sleep> nods
+<adi|sleep> and the lack of decent sleep.
+* adi|sleep giggles furiously as he missreads sleep with sheep...
+<adi|sleep> no wouldn't _that_ have been a freudian slip.
+<Zagor> hehe
+<Linus> I mean that the data (and the clock in the case of the MAS) is bidirectional. Both read and write. And the diode makes that difficult.
+<Linus> But not impossible. Just tricky.
+<Zagor> what's the australian definition of "safe sex"?
+* wavey pats adi|sleep on the head
+<Zagor> you X-mark the sheep that kicks
+* wavey -so- needs to learn some electronics
+<wavey> is there a beginners bible?
+<Linus> I don't know
+<Linus> It's really simple. Just have a father that explains it to you. :-)
+<alkorr> yes but you can read, cannot you ?
+<wavey> er
+<alkorr> i'm talking to Linus :)
+<wavey> ah
+<alkorr> read MAS
+<wavey> good :)
+<Linus> hahaha!
+<alkorr> :)
+<Linus> Yes I can read. Ti is working. But it is slow at the moment. I will add another trick from my bag to make it faster.
+<alkorr> it is the code or the electronic part which is really slow ?
+* Bagder likes bags with tricks
+<Linus> Tha MAS is really nasty, as it drives the clock even when it is slave. :-(
+<Linus> The data line takes a lot of time to go from 1 to 0 when reading, since the line is unconnected because of the diode. I will have to discharge it explicitly to make it faster.
+<alkorr> the MAS manual says it can held the clock to let it handle some things before reading further data
+<alkorr> okay
+<Linus> Yup. And that is really nasty.
+<Linus> Especially since the clock is also connected via a diode.
+<alkorr> in fact, you're telling us that MAS could run faster if the data line can discharge more rapidly
+<Linus> Only the I2C line. That is only used for settings and configuration.
+<alkorr> but it only regards the I²C line
+<Linus> A pull-down would really help.
+<alkorr> okay, not a real problem, just a nasty design
+<Linus> Exactly.
+<alkorr> lines I²C shouldn't have pull-ups ? 
+<Linus> Yes. On the bus side. I was talkin about the CPU side of the diode.
+<alkorr> okay
+<alkorr> just a note
+<alkorr> if you disassembly the I²C part of the player firmware, they don't use the common way to set/clear the I²C lines
+<alkorr> instead of using IN direction to set line at 1, they use OUT direction and set to 1
+<alkorr> that is, when setting port, always in OUT direction from the CPU
+<alkorr> when reading (checking line status), in IN direction 
+<wavey> daniel - you still capturing the logs?
+<Bagder> I do
+<alkorr> I suppose you don't use the same way to communicate with MAS (when setting 0, OUT dir.; when setting 1, IN dir.)
+<wavey> cool
+<wavey> can we automate it?
+<wavey> stick a bot on and pipe it to the website?
+<Bagder> it is certainly possible
+<wavey> and add a search engine? :)
+<wavey> this is a wealth of info
+<Zagor> i added a search form yesterday
+<Zagor> it uses google
+<wavey> especially to newcomers that will come along
+<wavey> cool
+<wavey> uses google's cache or realtime search?
+<Zagor> the cache
+<wavey> ok
+<Zagor> but they index the site pretty regularly
+<wavey> lovely
+<wavey> regularly or frequently? ;)
+<Zagor> frequently :)
+<wavey> i've nearly got the C++ XML library ready for inclusion
+<wavey> just getting the CORBA interfaces ready first
+<wavey> this firmware will kick ass
+<Zagor> haha
+<Bagder> hihi
+<Bagder> what about the web browser? ;-)
+<wavey> :)
+<alkorr> bad you will need to convert it to plain C ;)
+<wavey> now, this might be a ridiculous idea...
+<wavey> but can we use more of the limited memory buffer for audio 
+<Zagor> more?
+<alkorr> ???
+<wavey> hang on
+<wavey> by using the disk to store our program data?
+<wavey> and load it back when needed?
+<alkorr> we have a 2 MB DRAM, whatever we can have in
+<wavey> or is that silly
+<Zagor> that is silly :)
+<alkorr> depending what you want to do
+<alkorr> i think to understand what Wavey means
+<alkorr> yes it could be a cool idea but not the priority
+<Linus> alkorr: That is why they have the diode. They don't want to set it ton IN to drive a 1 on the bus.
+<Linus> For some reason.
+<alkorr> the possibility to load a game when you want to play, instead always having them in memory 
+<wavey> yeah, keep a nucleus of program in memory, and demand load the bits we need
+<wavey> how large is the footprint of archos firmware?
+<alkorr> archos apparently has no real dynamic memory
+<alkorr> it seems to use a lot of tables
+<Linus> What is "real dynamic memory"?
+<Zagor> malloc
+<Linus> Ah.
+<alkorr> so their size should be fixed
+<Zagor> i guess :)
+<alkorr> malloc is a dynamic memory
+<alkorr> a true dynamic memory, if you like
+<wavey> do i misremember malloc's free not shrinking the process memory usage?
+<wavey> not that it matters
+<Zagor> that's OS dependent
+<Bagder> wavey: that's a unix thing
+<wavey> with only 1 process
+<wavey> ok
+<alkorr> what i mean is if we want to have the ability to load specific code at a ponctual time
+<alkorr> you surely need a dynamic memory
+<alkorr> so when we only use the player (or recorder)
+<alkorr> we can use all the memory
+<alkorr> and to prevent us to work with fixed address (so binary code not reusable with new firmware)
+<alkorr> but you still need a code addresses relocator :) well, not the first thing rockbox will have
+<wavey> no one knows how large the archos firmware is in memory?
+<Zagor> nope :)
+<Linus> I xould guess about 100K.
+<wavey> interesting :)
+<Linus> But I might be wrong
+<wavey> their firmware decompresses the mod, yes?
+<wavey> .ajz
+<alkorr> in fact we can export some data in harddisk
+<alkorr> for exemple if we have messages in different language
+<Linus> I guess the recorder decompreses the firmware. That would explain the long start time.
+<wavey> i can't see the benefit of a compressed mod
+<wavey> except to piss people off :)
+<Linus> Neither can I.
+<Bagder> save disk space? hehehe
+<wavey> hehe
+<wavey> ooh, 60GB in your palm. 
+<Linus> Download time on the internet? I mean if you can save 1 second... :-)
+<alkorr> Wav. scrambling maybe
+<PsycoXul> so like yeah
+<PsycoXul> i remember all the things my c64 could do with 1mhz
+<wavey> 1mhz? or 1mb?
+<PsycoXul> what interesting things can be done with a whole 12mhz of processing power
+<PsycoXul> heh
+<wavey> ah
+<wavey> yes :)
+<PsycoXul> i just with the player's LCD was even just a tiny bit better
+<PsycoXul> like to be able to draw the blocks between characters
+<PsycoXul> heh
+<Bagder> yup, all the fun games will only be for the recorder :*)
+<PsycoXul> nah
+<PsycoXul> i did a rather nice little thing where you run around a map overhead
+<PsycoXul> and it scrolls through the 2 lines quite nicely
+<alkorr> i think the messages inf the firmware must take a lot of space, it could be interesting to see when removed how many it saves space in memory to have just the messages of the right langage
+<PsycoXul> it's pointless till i can read levels in files and such but i just wanted to find out if it was possible to make a game playable in 2 lines
+<PsycoXul> and it is
+<PsycoXul> just be cooler with a little more capabilities
+<PsycoXul> heh
+<Bagder> that's might cool
+<Bagder> +y
+<alkorr> to have a < 64 KB code should be a good point 
+<Zagor> alkorr: yes
+<Zagor> we have a very big advantage in that we can always compile in just the features and data that we need
+<Linus> Hehe. The libc code is about 30k...
+<Bagder> ick
+<Zagor> libc? who needs libc?
+<alkorr> for div
+<alkorr> or shift operations
+<alkorr> when the shifter is not an immediate
+<Linus> I use it for sprintf at the moment. The string functions are there too
+<Bagder> there's a diet libc we could check out
+<Zagor> we can use a simpler sprintf
+<Linus> We have the source. We remove what we don't want.
+<Zagor> precisely
+* Bagder agrees
+<Linus> Actually, I think newlib ha a diet sprintf.
+<Linus> s/a/has/
+<Bagder> "ha has" ? 
+<alkorr> but due to the fact you use a library, you only integrate functions from libc you really use in your source*
+<Bagder> heheh
+* Linus has thick fingers today
+<Linus> Not functions, modules
+<Linus> Unfortunately, many finctions are located in the same .o file in the library, and they often call each other.
+<alkorr> ah bad
+<Linus> But correctable.
+<alkorr> i thought they used a .c file for each functions
+<Linus> Often they do.
+<Linus> And sprintf() is a mighty beast.
+<alkorr> shure
+<Linus> I use it for debugging output at the moment.
+<alkorr> using sprintf from linux?
+<Linus> Nope. In the firmware. On the GDB console.
+<Bagder> a less capable sprintf() could of course be much smaller and still do just about what you'd want
+* Linus thinks of Trio
+<Bagder> that is not less
+<alkorr> Linus: i know but i'm speaking about what version sprintf is
+<Linus> But you know how to strip it.
+<Bagder> true ;-)
+<Linus> I don't know of any versions of sprintf. It's just Newlib.
+<Linus> Version 10.0.1, IIRC
+<Bagder> we probably want a sprinf() for screen text formatting too
+<Zagor> yup
+<alkorr> one possibility
+<wavey> i saw a tiny sprintf for gameboy advance
+<Linus> Go get it.
+* wavey looks
+<alkorr> is to use a generic printf which call a function for a character
+<alkorr> not fast
+<Bagder> well that's how they all work
+<alkorr> but you can directly display without have a buffer
+<Bagder> more or less
+<alkorr> so ?
+<Bagder> so that is probably what we'll get
+<Bagder> but
+<alkorr> so when you use this function, just call this function with a callback ?
+<Bagder> I doubt that anyway will printf() to the display
+<Bagder> anyone
+<alkorr> ah yeah, it is another thing for the LCD recorder
+<alkorr> story
+<Bagder> right
+--- Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
+--- Linus is now known as Linus|lunch
+<alkorr> c u
+<Bagder> bye Alan
+<-- alkorr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+<wavey> http://www.frotz.net/gbadev/remote/printf.c
+<wavey> pretty tiny
+<Bagder|food> yes
+--- Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor
+--- Linus|lunch is now known as Linus
+<wavey> http://yugop.com/ver3/stuff/03/fla.html
+<wavey> cute
+<wavey> (and work safe)
+<Zagor> cool!
+<Bagder> http://www.oqo.com/ <= seen this?
+<Zagor> bleh, flash
+<Bagder> yeah
+<Bagder> annoying site, cool box
+<-- Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
+<Zagor> do you know why uisimulator has a garbled window title?
+<Bagder> no
+<Zagor> what's the variable in emacs that says to only indent with spaces?
+<Bagder> (setq-default indent-tabs-mode nil)
+<Bagder> I think
+<Zagor> ok
+<Zagor> closing tunnel, brb
+--> Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
+<Zagor> lcd_update in lcd-x11.c doesn't ever clear pixels, does it?
+<Bagder> uh, no ;-)
+<Zagor> i noticed :)
+<Bagder> oops
+* Zagor has been scratching his head a while over this :)
+<Bagder> I'm not sure how to do that the best possible way though
+<Bagder> I mean to avoid flickering
+<Zagor> how about just redrawing the whole screen. performance is not really an issue on X
+<Zagor> flickering only happens if you do it very frequently
+<Zagor> or maybe have an "old" array which you compare against
+<Bagder> well, we would need to fill the whole rect first, then draw all pixels
+<Zagor> and then draw all new and clear all old
+<Bagder> that's what I had in mind
+<Zagor> so do it :)
+<Bagder> can't do it right now
+<Zagor> k
+<Bagder> it'll have to wait a bit
+<Linus> The I2C is rocking like HELL! And fast too!
+* Zagor wonders just how much hell is rocking
+<Bagder> any sounds from the MAS yet?
+<Linus> Wait. There's a bunch of commands to be sent to it to configure it.
+* Bagder caaaan't wait ;-)
+* Linus wants to please Bagder
+* Zagor can't wait for a working lcd_update...
+<Bagder> so just clear the screen first
+<Zagor> hmm, what does this "X11" mean? ;)
+* Linus thinks Bagder is lazy
+* Bagder reminds you about who wrote the uisim in the first place ;-)
+<Zagor> so tell me, how do I clear the screen?
+<Bagder> XDrawRect() or XFillRect() or something
+<Zagor> ok
+<Bagder> find a page about one of the other X* functions and click some links
+<Bagder> that's how I've made it this far ;-)
+--> alkorr (jbcoax@srs05v-2-184.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
+<Linus> Hi alan!
+<Linus> The I2C is rocking like HELL! And fast too!
+<alkorr> hi again
+<alkorr> how do you do ? :)
+* Zagor has a little surprise for you all...
+<Linus> I drive the data and clock lines low right before switching from output to input. That way I don't have to wait for the slow transition.
+<alkorr> uh ? i mean how do you get it ? :)
+<alkorr> okay
+* Linus is waiting for Zagor
+<alkorr> so you force discharge by this way
+<Zagor> soon
+<Zagor> soooooon...
+<Linus> Yup. Works like a charm.
+<alkorr> hum some news from Dragan ?
+<Zagor> uh, i haven't mailed him yet. i forgot...
+* Bagder pokes Zagor with a large stick
+* Linus hits him hard
+<Zagor> alan: are you working on the fat code?
+<Zagor> then i shouldn't be poking on it yet... :)
+* Linus sees a major commit from Alan
+<alkorr> a lot of things to add in fact
+<alkorr> so don't rush
+<Bagder> lots of c++ comments ;-)
+* Bagder hides
+<Zagor> hehe
+<alkorr> sorry but there were here before you ;P
+<Linus> You'll be surprised how little code you need to screw up your hard drive... :-)
+<Zagor> lol
+<alkorr> to screew up ? you mean to destroy ?
+<Linus> Yup.
+<Linus> No, not destroy. Just screw up.
+<alkorr> well my code never destroys or screws up ;P
+<Linus> Of course. Not _your_ code. :-)
+<alkorr> but you're right. Just a lock command and you are bad under windows
+<alkorr> hopefully i can unlock with your modified drive *relief*
+<alkorr> driver
+<Zagor> we need to fix something like that for the recorder too
+<alkorr> ah yes USB 2.0
+<alkorr> just a precision about my fat.c, i think the main thing that will stir you is probably the ata callback mechanism
+* Linus is still waiting for Zagors surprise
+* alkorr too
+<Zagor> paitence, children... :)
+<Zagor> patience, even
+<Zagor> alkorr: you mean except for the 1-byte arrays? ;)
+<alkorr> to understand what is it : it is way to handle, compute, swap or format data during a read or write operation in a atomic way (we cannot have simultanous readings sectors)
+<alkorr> yes
+<alkorr> because BPB is a real mess : all the fields are unaligned
+<alkorr> and using callback will create a too large function whereas I just need some fields in fact
+<alkorr> normally i don't keep in memory any boot sectors (like MBR, BPB or FSINFO)
+<wavey> what's the history of the disk code we're cutting?
+<wavey> has it been tried and tested elsewhere?
+<wavey> or is it all new
+<alkorr> yes in the obsolete fat.c i gave to Zagor 
+<alkorr> and the ones I lost during a harddisk crash
+<alkorr> SH really dislikes misunligned accesses
+<Bagder> I gotta go, see ya guys later
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Apr 19 14:34:13 2002
+