From 79420c43d8b872ba2c16b8894f1128bf094ba464 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Daniel Stenberg Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:36:17 +0000 Subject: we offer the world a view of the silliness that's been going on ;-) git-svn-id: svn://svn.rockbox.org/rockbox/trunk@36 a1c6a512-1295-4272-9138-f99709370657 --- www/irc/rockbox-20020325.log | 562 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 1 file changed, 562 insertions(+) create mode 100644 www/irc/rockbox-20020325.log (limited to 'www/irc/rockbox-20020325.log') diff --git a/www/irc/rockbox-20020325.log b/www/irc/rockbox-20020325.log new file mode 100644 index 0000000000..bc2ce2fd1e --- /dev/null +++ b/www/irc/rockbox-20020325.log @@ -0,0 +1,562 @@ +**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 25 08:57:45 2002 + +--> Bagder (~daniel@217.215.72.110) has joined #rockbox + hey +--- adiamas has changed the topic to: hacking the Archos Jukebox http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/ + hey there... + i was about to call it a night and head to sleep + didn't expect anyone in this quick :) + hehe, its morning here ;-) + hehe i _just_ sent the email like 30 secs ago :) + yeps + hehe + glad to see someone saw it... + you located in europe... + yes + where in? + Sweden + hehe well.. your first in so.. here +--- adiamas gives channel operator status to Bagder + :-) + someone who's awake should have some control... + I'm Björn's brother actually + ahh... hehe seems he got followers pretty quickly. + indeed + and pretty varied at that... Im here in the USA. +* adiamas shrugs + there are 77 subscribers of the mailing list + wow, that was quick + only been 3-4 months yes? + yeah, since about december + BTW, I think making a FAQ sounds like a great idea +* adiamas smiles happily + im just not to sure on how technical to go on it, but i figure even something is a start + will you be sitting in the room most the day or you plan on logging off? + exactly, just start somewhere and it'll grow into place + I don't know + i really need sleep. work in 6 hours. + ok... + im going to idle till i get up for work + ill see you later + see ya +--> adiamas|sleeping (~adiamas@as5300-9.216-194-23-78.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) has joined #rockbox +--- adiamas gives channel operator status to adiamas|sleeping +<-- adiamas (~adiamas@as5300-9.216-194-23-78.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) has left #rockbox ("Client Exiting") +--- Bagder sets mode +t #rockbox + what is mode +t? + prevent non-ops to set topic + ahhh... k + gotta learn that stuff... +* Bagder is an old IRC-bot author... :-) + heheh i only started on irc about a year ago... + I stopped writing the bot many years ago... + first time on irc was 1993 + i was just getting into computers at that point + i miss that old 1200 modem + :-) + now go to sleep! ;-) + hehehe + nite +--> wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox + anyone awake? + yeps + coolio + how you doing? + pretty good. You? + yup + you interested in coding for the archos then? + I am, and I intend to ;-) + likewise.. + got the player or recorder? + or both? + recorder, I'm Daniel who posted to the mailing list just an hour ago + aha + nice to meet you :) + i mailed out a few qs to the list several weeks ago + name? + stuart martin + right, I read them ;-) + the archos is pretty funky, but flaky as shit + mine's got a dodgy contact in the earphone socket + probably going to resolder it + I just got mine, haven't really had time to do much yet ;-) + i do love it + but i just wish it had sony's build + I'll get the serial port hack soon and start coding it + interesting to hear you got 8 cells.. + Linus has a fully working gdb stub now + yeah, very impressed to read that + i know *no* electronics.. + i'm waiting for the low-level shit to be completed :) + then i can start helping + hehe + :) + I'm not *that* low-level myself, I start on assembler ;-) I can't do much electronics + heh, assembler i'm happy with. + working out which wire to cut, i'm not :) + I think that makes us on the same level more or less ;-) + groovy + the UI is going to be interesting + luckily we have those guys around us to work out those stuff + i think we should maybe list the features we want and start prioritising them + then start mocking up UI images + yeah + should be fun working with small screen realestate + I would like to write some kind of UI simulator + interesting.. go on + to enable us to work on UI stuff without having to bother with the actual hardware + yup + cool idea + i guess we'll need to pre-empt the low level services available to the UI + I'm a Linux dude myself, so I'd go for a X-display + me too + although i find windoze usable too with enough cywin and emacs layers on top ;) + the UI stuff would be built-up with a minor set of graphics functions, and we could probably just replace those functions with a set that draws X instead + is this channel logged? + could be useful + I log it + coolio + I think I have some basic X11-code that pops up a window and allows me to draw in it, which could be a start + cool + how long until it reads mail and displays webpages too? ;) + *g* + if we just get enough people to join in, there's nothing to stop us ;-) + damn right :) + the player/recorder screen diffs are a shame + yes indeed + i wonder if project focus will be on the recorder + or the player + bjorn's initial investigations were on the player + yeps + but now he has both + but he bought a recorder iirc + yeah cool + and so does Linus + cool + and Björn's player CPU is damaged ;-) + heh + or should I say :-( + how'd he damage the cpu? + the serial port is broken + it isn't normally used, so he hasn't noticed + what timezone you in? + i'm in london + Sweden, +1 from you + you friends with linus and bjorn? + or just coincidence? +<-- wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has left #rockbox +--> wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox + shit + yeah, Björn's my brother and Linus is an old time friend. We work at the same company + aha :) + all three opf us + i work as a j2ee consultant for a company with a swedish office + we got some of them over here now cos the market in .se is pretty weak + yes it seems to be + I'm doing embedded/realtime programming as a consultant + cool + which processor? + right now, StrongARM + cool + i've only done 68K assembler but loved it + arm assembler in general is cool, it has conditionals on *all* instructions + madness :) + hehe, yeah + I moved into OO years ago, and wouldn't go back + pure elegance + (if you get it right) :) + hehe, so they say... :-) + how far would you wanna see this simulator go? + button presses triggering song launching/pausing etc? + it all comes down to much much we feel its worth + aye + i think perhaps the first stage might be to sketch UI ideas + we could probably make more or less a complete simulator, should we want and have the eneergy + yes + and that means identifiying the key aspects + and voting on inclusion + or doing a bjorn and ignoring the votes :) + we can start on UI basics and ideas first, without even think code + hehe + ok + how about throwing that to the mail list + give us your wants + or perhaps we can envisage most of that already + toggle m3u display/filename + scrolling/non scrolling + level meters + time + power + mode + vol + button names + eyecandy plugins + imho, we must focus on getting the basic stuff there first, to allow us to play songs as that would help the guys working on those parts (mp3, filesystem etc) + of course + but a basic UI is trivial + just a button label + yes, that's true + while they are developing that + we can look to the medium term + right + and of course, we need emacs ported to it :) +* Bagder grins + i remember when i started coding for the gameboy advance people started talking about porting linux + so so funny + feel free to post a summary to the list, could be useful + but it always happens :) + yes it does + it'll happen here too soon :-) + did you fill your 20GB capacity yet? + i did mine in an hour and a half :) + heh, no, but I don't really use it yet either + bought a usb 2 pci card + I stream mp3 from my home-box to work + i haven't had mine from my side since i bought it in january + I've ordered a usb2 card too + I finally bought mine now since I was supposed to stop my project here and thus I wasn't sure I could still listen to my stream, but now I've got another assignment at the same palce so I can continue listening to it... + heh + typical + well, I want to code it anyway, so I guess that'll be my primary use for it ;-) + i prefer to use the recorder despite being in front of a computer because it means i get more bandwidth.. + and i can get up and move around without killing the sound + :-) +* Bagder runs for more coffee + i've always hated stopping music :) + i'll leave the cd player running when i leave the house sometimes. stupid huh? :) +--> gizz (~gizz@ALyon-102-2-1-77.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #rockbox + howdy + heya ! + g'day + did I miss some hot talks ?? :) + not really + that's on #sex +* wavey chuckles + hehe + or perhaps #hotsex + you => Juke hacker ? + we're wannabe archos hackers ;-) + great! + player or recorder ? + => I'm a poor player owner, +* Bagder has a Recorder + recorder also + we've been discussing some ideas for the UI + but nothing really worthy of capture yet + ok + problem is, + to me player & recorder are very different + yus + shame + yes, we'll need to make two UIs as they'll be quite different + but is it worth it ? + I mean, + does player owe to be supported ever ? + well, if people here want to support it, it'll be supported.. + the underlying functions of the firmware will be mostly similar between the two + right! + indeed, and except for display+keys, msot of the internals are the same + need a UI strategy + the recorder is likely to be supported better because it's cooler.. + (UI) anyway + good point + So, + UI guys + should make good design decision, + in order for the to Juke-races to be supported, at least + at low level, + juke-races? + races : sorts + ok + hmm, models.. :) + understood :) + .. but at UI level, + they will be supported (very) differently, + aye + and of cours, recorder owners will be happier :) + One thing : + on my player, when pleying with custom chars (font) + I tried to draw two bitmaps through thos custom chars, + (as if custom chars datas where some sort of 'video memory') + and then, I thought we could just modify this 'video memory' at will, + to simulate some pixel screen + but the result wasn't quite good (many pixels where too far from each other, due to space between chars) + That's all... :) + Did you try to draw some stuff on your recorder ? + nope + I compiled the player firmware on my box, but haven't tried a recorder one + I just got mine, I intend to get the gdb-stub approach working first + ok; If recorder prices get lower, I think I'll move to it + gizz: nice idea with the video memory + vid mem : well, in all cases, that would produce an 14 * 55 screen :) (if I remember well) + 14 pixels is pretty damn limiting :) + amen + remind me what the recorder has? + oh + time to mock up some screens to get the juices flowing + maybe 131 * 64 or better ?? + 112x64 + cool resolution !! + (slightly less than HP48 ;o) + can't wait to get some games going ;-) + If only I had a recorder, I could try to port some + nifty HP48 100% assembly games :o) + hehe + (with scrolling, sprites, grey level, etc.. :) + it has sprites? + Never played Columns II on HP48 ?? + sprites : yes ! + gosh + what about : Arkanoid, Skweeks, + Xennon, + or even : Doom, grey-level, with monsters, textures, and multiplayers ? + (well, two players, with serial cable) + nah, let's aim for PPP over the USB and have full internet access ;-) + LOL + hey, I've got an idea : I'm gonna try the grey-level tricks tonight, just to see if it works :)ā + you at home, or at work ? + work +* gizz too :) + ssh'ed to home + cool ! + => i'll back later then.. :) + bye ! + bye +<-- gizz has quit ("Leaving") + damn + missed the important bit + sprites! + lovely :) + yeah, that would be great ;-) + i can imagine some nice visualisations coming out of this + eyecandy is important :) + indeed it is + 112x64 +* wavey opens psp + wow + it's really really small :) + this is going to be interesting + are there character fonts built in to the recorder or is it purely bitmapped? + pure bitmaps, as I've understood it, but the font is stored as separate bitmaps + as the pics on http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/notes.html shows + ah yes + the project went pretty quiet for a while + forgot the basics + yeah, after the initial burst there has been some silence and hard work at the side + so + intial, still very basic, ui-simulator seems to work + hey nice + pops up window, can draw in it etc + lovely + is it worth trying to identify key functional areas, and see how they lead to a UI requirement? + 1. start playing + 2. pause playing + 3. stop playing + 4. increase volume + 5 decrease volume + are these the fundamental ones? + playlist etc extend this + yes they're the basics + without them, there is no player + ok, playlist operations are another + and file operations are another + level meters + balance control + timekeeping + playlist on the recorder firmware is simple + add to playlist + play list + play list randomly + delete from list + next in list + back in list + hey, I haven't understood how the playlist works yet ;-) + i figured :) + hence the recap :) + how much was your recorder? + I'm not sure... I had a friend order it for me + point 1) above assumes a file can be identified from the hdd + which kinda presupposes some file operations are needed at the start + i.e. browse + right, filesystem support is essential + shall we propose 2 main UI iterations, with the first being 1-5 above + browse filesystem + and the 2nd being the one with the extra fluff like balance control, timekeeping etc? + sounds wise, yes + do you have your recorder with you now? + no + the level meters take up 1/4 of the screen! + ridiculous + i mean, who cares? + they're quite silly, I agree + and the three timers are silly +* Bagder tries to get Björn here +--> Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox + there he is ;-) + hey bjorn + nice to meet you + hey there guys + i'm sure daniel's filled you in on our discussions so far + trying to identify a) the minimum UI + ah, no not really + to enable testing of firmware code + and b) a candidate full-featured UI + with bells and whistles + a) needs file browsing support, plus play/pause/stop file + volume control + b) has playlist control, m3u display, balance control, etc + so Zagor, you ok with me creating a subdir in CVS and importing my initial X11 UI stuff? + and a funky lil' gui + bagder: sure. maybe something called 'simulator' or similar, to clearly show it's not the "real" code + righ, I'll go for simulator + i'd be more explicit + well, my first thought when i threw this item on Daniel was, + from experience, naming becomes important in directory structures + that it'd be a good thing if we can have the basic menu system the same for the two models + not so much the graphic bits, more the underlying framework + sure + sensible + ok, so 'uisimulator' then ;-) + sounds great to me + (note: i'm at work, so I'll be idle from now and then) + likewise + in london + ah, you guys work at work? :-] + sometimes :) + Zagor: with gaim, how the heck do I create an account? + hmm + i don't know :-) + didn't you have an account before? + me neither, it just asks for a name and password + I used icq ages ago, yes I had an account but only god knows which name and password I used then + you need to specify that you are using the 'oscar' protocol, otherwise it will try to log you on as an AIM account + ok + ah, I need to go and do it on a web page... + i like the ascii rockbox logo, bagder + that'll probably be easiest, yes + figlet is cool ;-) + yeah, it's cool! + figlet rocks :) + so, did you come up with some ideas about the GUI? + some + nothing graphical + functional requirements + and no real thought to the player/recorder split + except that the player's size is very limiting + yes, indeed + and i'd like to see some visualisation eyecandy + i nice big on-screen Archos would be cool :-) + you mean a floating logo? + no i was thinking the simulated gui + or a representation of the player itself + yes + ah yes + is the simulator going to simulate the screen or the player as a whole? + and isn't that an emulator? ;) + I think we start with only the screen + and then we'll see if we're up to making it a complete emulator + yes + i'll leave the sh1 emulation to others :) + hehe + I've imported the uisimulator code to CVS now + gizz was talking about the chip being able to support sprites :) + and porting games to it :) + hehe + actually, he said the HP48 had them + grand plans! + my recorder is only 3 months old but i think tetris would kill the plasticy buttons on it + bad: ah! + that's a shame + but not really suprising :) + i'd be happy with no games but a firmware that didn't suck ass + did anyone make a C array of the fonts for the Recorder? + Zagor ? + not that i know + kind of boring work... :-) + can't you extract the data from existing firmware as a linear array? + or is that copyrighted + i guess it is + yes it is + but who could tell? :) + well we don't really need those exact fonts + there are tons of good fonts out there + agreed + but not at 5x7 + maybe not tons, but a few at least + linus had some ideas, but he's not here right now + excellent work he did with the gdb integration + yeah, very nice + that'll be *so* handy + he plans to write a program loader too, so we can select firmware at start. that'll be nice too. + he's a cool guy :) + very nice + hahah, just don't tell him that ;-) + i wouldn't dream of it ;*) + btw, i think we should aim for proportional fonts on the recorder + there's too little room to waste it on blanks :) + if we do it properly, we can have it as a user option + yes + as a user, i'd rather have the entire display taken up with the song details, rather than the stupid level meters + but hopefully we can cater to all tastes via options + yes. open season on level meters... + especially ones that take up a quarter of the screen! + bagder, do you have code for font handling? i have written some if you need it. + I need it + I only have the XDrawString() but it isn't what we want ;-) + ok, i'll mail it to you + did anyone write code that draws stuff on the recorder? + yes, look on the rockbox front page + there's a link in the news swction + found it + he has a font table in there... + ah + this code is quite good + bagder: look at drawText() in the code I sent you. it's the relevant portion + this works with the included font, right? + yes + well, if we have a font defined, making it output proportional won't be hard + no + my point exactly :) + the trickiest part is probably to make it look the same on Linux ;-) + really? can't you just allocate a bitmap and pixel-write to it? + probably, I'm just not very good at those X-calls. I'll need to chase around a bit + chase around? well, that's what we're here for, innit? ;) + I'm not complaining, I'm only saying how it looks ;-) + isn't raw X wrapped by gnome or something these days if you want to make it easier? + yeah + perhaps + I'm not sure it makes things easier at this point + we already pop up a window and we can draw in it + true + besides, not using gtk or qt makes our program even more portable + not that it matters very much of course + what's the main purpose of the ui simulator? + to see how things look? + yes + if we make generic input functions we can drive it too + to try the feel too + i'm not expressing myself clearly, i fear + um + does it give you more than mock ups would? + does it give you any real code for the archos itself? + yes, it will + that's the idea + ok cool + just getting it clear + maybe not just now, but that's the purpose of it all + cool + coffee time + bbl + sigh, our coke machine is empty... + bagder: where are you now? Neti, con? + neti + ok + they did buy my extra 300 hours, so I'm gonna be here for a while more... + ok + lucky you... ;-P + haha + at least I'm gonna be working entirely on linux this time + ok, that's nice +--- Bagder gives channel operator status to Zagor + gotta go + see ya + ok, bye +**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Mar 25 16:50:01 2002 -- cgit v1.2.3